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Thread: Centre LRT | Strathcona

  1. #301

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    The U of A is already serviced by the Capital line as it is. Centre LRT is more like a luxury item. Is it really needed?
    Downtown is already serviced by the Capital and Metro lines. Do we really need the Valley Line?

  2. #302
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    Ok, that's acceptable. This Centre LRT (pardon the pun) has a lot of moving parts in it. We're rapidly growing as a city we get that but is the Centre LRT the way to go in the time frame you mentioned above? I'm all about seeing the big picture. Has there been a study done on the daily passenger load Centre LRT? I've taken the #51 and #6 busses from Southgate when I worked at the Heart & Stroke foundation last year. Both bus routes are busy. #6 more then the #51, I wonder how those routes will be impacted if at all by Centre LRT.
    Last edited by envaneo; 16-02-2018 at 12:58 PM.
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  3. #303

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    The question isn't if it's needed now, it's if it's needed in 20, 30, 40yrs. We have a lot of runway here to get it right.
    It won't be needed in 20,30,40 years. We're using less than half of the capacity on the existing line that exactly parallels this one. If there's need for another transit river crossing in 40 years it will be better to build a whole new corridor at a distance from the capital/metro line rather than duplicate.

    If the city were actually thinking 40 years in the future we wouldn't be building at-grade "streetcar" LRT on major commuter corridors.
    There can only be one.

  4. #304
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    The coe was certainly thinking long term when Churchill station to Nait when Churchill station was built in the 1970's
    Last edited by envaneo; 16-02-2018 at 01:05 PM.
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  5. #305
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    Coe saw long term then by adding the breakout panels at Churchill station. I'm idle today...
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  6. #306

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    Given that it will be 2025 (best case scenario) before the west leg of the Valley line is complete, and the south and north extensions along the existing high floor lines are the next priority, it is unlikely that construction of the Centre LRT will begin before 2040 unless some of the other work is done concurrently. By then, the HLB will be in need of a major rehab just to keep it operating the way it is now. I expect that the area around Whyte Ave will be full of multi story apartments, the University will be serving 50,000 students and the whole area will be a traffic nightmare. Think about changes we've seen over the past 22 years or so to get some idea of what the future might look like. A 2 car consist can handle 550 people every 5 minutes each way. We all get caught up in the congestion lrt might cause, but what about the number of cars it can replace? What does that do for congestion?

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    $smart money says by that time the autonomous vehicle will be on city streets by then:

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...omous-vehicles

    According to the Alberta Automobile insurance rate board, the autonomous vehicle is in the conversation of near future transportation. At the moment Level 2 autonomous vehicles are surfacing. Level 5 just a few years away from now. How will autonomous vehicles impact Centre LRT and the LRT in general in 25 years?
    Last edited by envaneo; 16-02-2018 at 01:32 PM.
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  8. #308

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    How will autonomous vehicles impact Centre LRT and the LRT in general in 25 years?
    Hopefully they'll be smart enough by then not to.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ That was a good interview Ian. Would the use of the HL bridge in your proposal include the existing land/tracks are on behind the AEB?

    Just wondering, are you connected in anyway with Yardstick on 104th street?
    Thanks very much. Correct.

    Nope.
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  10. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    $smart money says by that time the autonomous vehicle will be on city streets by then:

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...omous-vehicles

    According to the Alberta Automobile insurance rate board, the autonomous vehicle is in the conversation of near future transportation. At the moment Level 2 autonomous vehicles are surfacing. Level 5 just a few years away from now. How will autonomous vehicles impact Centre LRT and the LRT in general in 25 years?
    Since cars, self driving or not, only hold 4 or 5 passengers compared to the 550 that an lrt train holds, I'm not sure that they can replace trains. Having half a million or so robot cars zooming around the city will not solve congestion issues.

  11. #311

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    Since trains, high-capacity or not, only go on one fixed route compared to the nigh-infinite flexibility cars can provide, I'm not sure that they can replace cars. Having trains only servicing a handful of the employment & living nodes in the city will not solve congestion issues.
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    ^ There's that, and how much power the LRT vs EV's/autonomous vehicles can demand on the power grid. Its not certain at this point if autonomous vehicles are going to be owned by the City/Province or the consumer. Seems we're moving in the direction of the autonomous vehicle sooner then later. I'm 65 so hopefully they wont appear in my life time
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  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    How will autonomous vehicles impact Centre LRT and the LRT in general in 25 years?
    Hopefully they'll be smart enough by then not to.
    Mercifully, I'll be gone from planet earth by that time. I'm an old guy, lol.
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  14. #314

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Since trains, high-capacity or not, only go on one fixed route compared to the nigh-infinite flexibility cars can provide, I'm not sure that they can replace cars. Having trains only servicing a handful of the employment & living nodes in the city will not solve congestion issues.
    Trains are linked to buses and park and rides. People use them in combination to get from home to work every day, keeping thousands of cars off our inner city roadways.

  15. #315

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    How will autonomous vehicles impact Centre LRT and the LRT in general in 25 years?
    Hopefully they'll be smart enough by then not to.
    Mercifully, I'll be gone from planet earth by that time. I'm an old guy, lol.
    The same for me. There is pretty much no chance of me being alive by the time the Centre LRT is open for business.

  16. #316
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    ^ But at least your contributing to the conversation and your voice has value like everyone else. Its what we say here that has impact down the road, hopefully.
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  17. #317

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldergrove View Post
    Trains are linked to buses and park and rides.
    Both of which are obviated by autonomous cars. No need to park a self-driving car & leave it there while you're at work. No need to deal with transfers, inefficient, circuitous, meandering neighbourhood collector routes & no need to worry about the bus leaving as the train pulls in. Get in, get out & the car continues on its merry way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldergrove View Post
    People use them in combination to get from home to work every day, keeping thousands of cars of our inner city roadways.
    Except for those of us who can't take transit or bike to work because Edmonton has highly distributed living & employment nodes that are ill-suited to the capital-heavy, catchment-limited & inflexible LRT paradigm in use here.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  18. #318

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    What do self driving car computers do when they are stuck in gridlock?


    Maybe tell; Why did the chicken cross the road jokes?
    Last edited by KC; 16-02-2018 at 03:12 PM.

  19. #319

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldergrove View Post
    Trains are linked to buses and park and rides.
    Both of which are obviated by autonomous cars. No need to park a self-driving car & leave it there while you're at work. No need to deal with transfers, inefficient, circuitous, meandering neighbourhood collector routes & no need to worry about the bus leaving as the train pulls in. Get in, get out & the car continues on its merry way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldergrove View Post
    People use them in combination to get from home to work every day, keeping thousands of cars of our inner city roadways.
    Except for those of us who can't take transit or bike to work because Edmonton has highly distributed living & employment nodes that are ill-suited to the capital-heavy, catchment-limited & inflexible LRT paradigm in use here.
    Ah, the old straw man. No one is touting lrt to replace cars, self driving or otherwise, particularly for those travelling between Stony Plain and Leduc or Ft. Saskatchewan. The biggest employment nodes in the Edmonton area, downtown and the University, are both surrounded by old neighbourhoods and accessed by narrow roads. We either live with gridlock, build freeways through those neighborhoods, or provide some alternate means of moving lots of people at a time. LRT is the preferred solution. It is reasonably affordable and has proven it's worth already, here and in many other cities. While the LRT expansions is done in big expensive chunks, it's costs are low compared to what is spent on roads. Unless we send it through residential neighbourhoods, it has to be built along existing arterial roads. The cost of elevating or burying it is prohibitive.

  20. #320

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ But at least your contributing to the conversation and your voice has value like everyone else. Its what we say here that has impact down the road, hopefully.
    Thanks for your thoughts. I doubt anything anyone says here will have much impact. Fortunately, in this instance I find I pretty much agree with the preferred route option the city picked. That is not usually the case.

  21. #321

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    Is it really a straw man when I'm literally describing myself?

    I currently live in the densest residential neighbourhood in town & have an 18-25 minute commute by car, door-to-door to a white-collar professional job that happens to not be centrally located. Transit? ~75 minutes, and that's on a day without inclement weather. Not even close to being an option.

    While Downtown & the University are indeed large nodes, that kinda proves my point. Outside of those two nodes there's a significant number of Edmontonians who don't work anywhere near either of them, instead being distributed throughout the city in huge swaths of industrial areas, like the one I work in.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  22. #322

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    Capital/Metro lines serves UofA from downtown. If you want service to west end, extend Capital line via 87 ave. Centre LRT can connect to Bonnie Doon for connections from Mill Woods, Capilano and Sherwood Park with no need to connect to the western edge of downtown and no bridge needed. If we need a bridge, direct connect UofA to WEM makes more sense
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 16-02-2018 at 04:03 PM.

  23. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Is it really a straw man when I'm literally describing myself?

    I currently live in the densest residential neighbourhood in town & have an 18-25 minute commute by car, door-to-door to a white-collar professional job that happens to not be centrally located. Transit? ~75 minutes, and that's on a day without inclement weather. Not even close to being an option.

    While Downtown & the University are indeed large nodes, that kinda proves my point. Outside of those two nodes there's a significant number of Edmontonians who don't work anywhere near either of them, instead being distributed throughout the city in huge swaths of industrial areas, like the one I work in.
    I've worked downtown, in suburban Edmonton and out in the oil patch. Right now I'm working in the NW Industrial Area, a region many times the size of downtown, accessed via a multitude of roads. The workplace density heere is very low, so it makes sense for people to drive if they can afford it. I've taken transit or ridden my bike to work downtown and in some of the industrial areas in the past, but my current location does not lend itself well to either solution.

    What's a straw man is your argument that implied that lrt was not a solution for people travelling to those areas. It's a straw man argument because neither I, nor anyone else has recommended lrt as a transportation solution in those areas.

    More people work downtown or at the University than in any single industrial area in the region. LRT is about getting those people to work or school. I'm hoping the Valley line reduces congestion around WEM and along 87th ave in general

  24. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Capital/Metro lines serves UofA from downtown. If you want service to west end, extend Capital line via 87 ave. Centre LRT can connect to Bonnie Doon for connections from Mill Woods, Capilano and Sherwood Park with no need to connect to the western edge of downtown and no bridge needed. If we need a bridge, direct connect UofA to WEM makes more sense
    You're flogging a dead horse. The valley line route is as much as cast in stone right now. I have a lot of concerns about the impact of this line from 149 st to the intersection of 142 st and Stony Plain Rd, but no one is listening. No point wasting your breath on things that aren't going to change.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldergrove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ But at least your contributing to the conversation and your voice has value like everyone else. Its what we say here that has impact down the road, hopefully.
    Thanks for your thoughts. I doubt anything anyone says here will have much impact. Fortunately, in this instance I find I pretty much agree with the preferred route option the city picked. That is not usually the case.
    TY. Ian confirmed my suspicions (if I read him right) that the Centre LRT could be utilizing the existing CP lands by the AEB structurally modifying the HLB etc. It seems such a waste to even detour the route West off 109th and onto Whyte, when it could easily just continue South on 109th street, make a left turn heading East from there. The funds saved could go towards the Mill creek bridge. I'm against this whole concept of Centre LRT anyway but I like the conversation. IMO Blatchford and St. Albert first before this. We can agree to disagree
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  26. #326

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldergrove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ But at least your contributing to the conversation and your voice has value like everyone else. Its what we say here that has impact down the road, hopefully.
    Thanks for your thoughts. I doubt anything anyone says here will have much impact. Fortunately, in this instance I find I pretty much agree with the preferred route option the city picked. That is not usually the case.
    TY. Ian confirmed my suspicions (if I read him right) that the Centre LRT could be utilizing the existing CP lands by the AEB structurally modifying the HLB etc. It seems such a waste to even detour the route West off 109th and onto Whyte, when it could easily just continue South on 109th street, make a left turn heading East from there. The funds saved could go towards the Mill creek bridge. I'm against this whole concept of Centre LRT anyway but I like the conversation. IMO Blatchford and St. Albert first before this. We can agree to disagree

    Blatchford and the south extension are already prioritized ahead of this.

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    The preferred route is going to be opened for public feedback in February. Here's a sneak peak:



    Important points:

    1. New bridge in between the High Level Bridge and the existing LRT (Menzies) Bridge.
    2. This bridge will be higher than Menzies but lower than HLB.
    3. Downtown stretches likely to be at grade.
    4. Unknown if the stretch along 110st/89ave in Garneau will be at grade or elevated or even tunneled.
    5. Two traffic lanes gone along 112st and Whyte Avenue.
    6. Unknown if Whyte Avenue crossings at 109st, Calgary Trail, Gateway Blvd, etc will be at grade.
    7. Bridge over Mill Creek will be shared with vehicular traffic.
    I really hate this New bridge idea... So stupid.

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