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Thread: Charter Rights of Canadians fighting for ISIL

  1. #1

    Default Charter Rights of Canadians fighting for ISIL

    Great - since the Charter supposedly necessitates that our government "tries" to free Canadians anywhere in the world (or at least is not "complicit" in their confinement), are we now going to have to spend millions freeing Canadian's who fought for ISIL who are in Iraq jails where they aren't treated in a soft manner like Canadian jails (to presumably bring home for million dollar trials, enriching lawyers on taxpayer dime)? These Canadians being people who intentionally left our country to fight against our forces in support of a regime that has perpetrated sex slavery on thousands of young women and children, destroyed cultural treasures that have existed for millennia, and inflicted untold horrors on minorities. Sure, bring the kids (if they aren't being treated well), but the adults - do we really as Canadians have an obligation to protect these monsters (or is it, "poor blameless men who were radicalized in their youth"?) from the foreign consequences of what they have done?


    Some experts say Ottawa has no choice but to try to repatriate and prosecute in Canada any detained members, ensuring they aren’t tortured or otherwise mistreated by local forces. As for those ISIL children, if they have one Canadian parent, they would be citizens and, lawyers say, deserve help.

    “The government has absolutely no choice but to protect the Charter rights of these Canadians,” said Lorne Dawson, a University of Waterloo professor who has extensively studied radicalized youth.

    “The embassy, the consulate would have to deal with them, the way they would any Canadian who’s gotten in trouble abroad, and assist them to come home if that’s what they want to do.”

    Others note there would be little public sympathy — especially after the controversial payment made to Omar Khadr — for bringing back foreign fighters, even if they were to face justice in Canada.

    The French government, for one, has already said that Iraq’s court system, not France’s, should judge one of its nationals captured recently near Mosul, noted Phil Gurski, a former Canadian Security Intelligence Service analyst.

    “Does the Canadian government have a legal, let alone a moral, responsibility to act on these people’s behalf? I think the answer is ‘No,’ ” said the head of the Borealis consulting company. “They made a conscious decision to leave this country and to join a group that everyone and his dog knows is a terrorist group … ‘It sucks to be you; live with it.’ ”
    http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/na...561/story.html
    Last edited by moahunter; 21-07-2017 at 08:57 AM.

  2. #2

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    Inappropriate thread IMHO.

    This is a veiled fallacy argument based upon the Omar Khadr controversy. The adult Canadians who decided themselves to fight for ISIL do not have legitimate claims of compensation. As per your referenced quote, “They made a conscious decision to leave this country and to join a group that everyone and his dog knows is a terrorist group …"
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  3. #3

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    ^I didn't say anywhere they had claims for compensation. The article asks whether the government needs to repatriate them, which will lead to million dollar trials - that's what it is going to cost to prosecute someone for crimes in a foreign country.

  4. #4

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    I regret to say I voted for the JT Liberals, never again ! This Kadhar thing and allowing terrorists to keep Canadian citizenship has gone to far . Will never vote left wing again.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I didn't say anywhere they had claims for compensation. The article asks whether the government needs to repatriate them, which will lead to million dollar trials - that's what it is going to cost to prosecute someone for crimes in a foreign country.
    It's almost as if you're deliberately glossing over the fact that it was the direct actions of the Canadian government in the handling of Omar's case that led to the SCC verdicts, the repatriation & the settlement, all to push your illiberal agenda. It seems you're deliberately stirring the pot to breed dissent & sow strife.

    If you're going to ignore the actual facts & just spout illiberal rhetoric could you please just do it in the comments pages of the right-wing op-eds that you get 99% of your talking points of & leave C2E alone?
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  6. #6

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    If moahunter can't win a debate because he gets his fact wrong, he just starts a new debate based upon a false premise.
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  7. #7

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    ^^
    ^
    I take it you don't agree with the Waterloo professor then? If so, explain why.

    The government has absolutely no choice but to protect the Charter rights of these Canadians,” said Lorne Dawson, a University of Waterloo professor who has extensively studied radicalized youth.
    Here is the article headline:

    Ottawa may have no choice but to repatriate, prosecute captured Canadian ISIL members: experts

  8. #8

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    Crazy , that the left believes: terrorists deserve rights and freedoms.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Crazy , that the left believes: terrorists deserve rights and freedoms.
    Crazy that some people think not everyone deserves rights. Do you know that even murderers have rights?!

  10. #10

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    I read the article, Captain Cherrypicker of the Goalpost Moving Brigade.

    To wit:

    They always stress … ‘We cannot in any way afford to allow our actions to result in a Canadian citizen receiving basically torture, or abuse. That will never happen again’.”Turning a blind eye to maltreatment by Iraqis or others could lead to a human-rights claim like Khadr’s, Dawson said. Though accused of killing an American soldier while a teenage member of al-Qaida, Khadr received a $10.5-million settlement recently over Canada’s role in his torture and other rights violations while in U.S. military custody.
    As long as our direct & willful actions don't result in torture, Omar's precedent doesn't apply.

    Citizens facing serious charges in a foreign country with a well-functioning justice system would normally be left to that nation’s courts, says Anil Kapoor, a Toronto lawyer who has acted on numerous national-security cases. But given that ISIL members would be detained in a chaotic war zone, Canada should probably try to repatriate them, he said.
    This is consistent with the Charter. While potentially expensive & definitely inconvenient, bringing these people to Canada to face a fair trial if they cannot get one where they're captured is in line with the principles of fundamental justice. Kangaroo courts do nothing for justice & if we leave people to be tortured when they can be repatriated we'd be committing the same grievous error the Harper Government did when they refused to repatriate Omar (leading to yet another SCC judgement & taxpayer money wasted).

    If local authorities in Iraq or elsewhere insisted on prosecuting them, Canada should at least provide diplomatic assistance, said Kapoor.
    And as long as said diplomatic assistance doesn't involve deception & denial of human rights by Canadian officials, Omar's precedent doesn't apply either. Canadian officials must always act in accordance with Canadian law & principles in their interactions with Canadians, even as part of a wholly foreign process. That's the law.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Crazy , that the left believes: terrorists deserve rights and freedoms.
    Humans have human rights.

    Revolting that the illiberal & fascist contingent here wants the government free to ignore the rights of their citizens whenever it's politically expedient.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I read the article, Captain Cherrypicker of the Goalpost Moving Brigade.

    To wit:

    They always stress … ‘We cannot in any way afford to allow our actions to result in a Canadian citizen receiving basically torture, or abuse. That will never happen again’.”Turning a blind eye to maltreatment by Iraqis or others could lead to a human-rights claim like Khadr’s, Dawson said. Though accused of killing an American soldier while a teenage member of al-Qaida, Khadr received a $10.5-million settlement recently over Canada’s role in his torture and other rights violations while in U.S. military custody.
    As long as our direct & willful actions don't result in torture, Omar's precedent doesn't apply.
    That's not what experts are saying - we are directly tied to the Iraq government because of the assistance our special forces are providing to their soldiers. If the Canadian government knows the soldiers we are training are torturing Canadian ISIS members, then I think the Supreme Court is going to rule that there is an obligation to step in and pay whatever amount we need to pay to the Iraq government to free them / repatriate them to Canada, for expensive legal trials in Canada. But lets see who is right - it seems this issue is already troubling the Trudeau government, that's why this article exists.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Crazy , that the left believes: terrorists deserve rights and freedoms.
    Humans have human rights.

    Revolting that the illiberal & fascist contingent here wants the government free to ignore the rights of their citizens whenever it's politically expedient.
    I don't believe the left wing ideology of : a terrorist is a terrorist is Canadian . There is no " we " when it comes to terrorists . We shouldn't be enabling , harboring or financing .

    Trump needs lay a smack down , on these country's ( like Canada ) that harbor terrorists ,.... build a wall , sanctions.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Crazy , that the left believes: terrorists deserve rights and freedoms.
    Blame our Charter - it's a document that is clearly full of holes.

    My personal opinion is that it was written by liberal lawyers simply to grant job security to liberal lawyers and judges for the next century.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Crazy , that the left believes: terrorists deserve rights and freedoms.
    Crazy that some people think not everyone deserves rights. Do you know that even murderers have rights?!
    Crazy that some people think that offenders who choose to take away the rights of others should still have all their rights protected by society at all costs.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Crazy , that the left believes: terrorists deserve rights and freedoms.
    Crazy that some people think not everyone deserves rights. Do you know that even murderers have rights?!
    Crazy that some people think that offenders who choose to take away the rights of others should still have all their rights protected by society at all costs.
    That's literally how we treat people in Canada that commit crimes. They still have rights.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Blame our Charter - it's a document that is clearly full of holes.

    My personal opinion is that it was written by liberal lawyers simply to grant job security to liberal lawyers and judges for the next century.
    Thanks for putting this out there, it's fantastic for you to be so plain-speaking when showing a complete lack of respect for our constitution, our legal/judicial system & our stance on human rights.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  18. #18

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    Oh my, how dare I criticize something!

  19. #19

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    No, by all means, criticize away. But when you come across as a jingoist, pro-authoritarian-regime, illiberal pseudo-fascist don't be afraid or offended when people call you on it.

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & sounds like a duck, odds are it's a duck.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  20. #20

  21. #21

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    Do you believe that liberal democracy is obsolete? Do you think sometimes violence is justified & a positive thing? Do you believe we need a strong leader & a government willing to take whatever measures are needed to make the country unified, whole & great again?

    From your post history, I'd suggest you'd answer yes to all of those questions. And that'd make you a textbook fascist.

    Fascist.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  22. #22

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    If Canada has no extradition treaty with the countries where these adults are being held it could be very difficult to get them back to Canada. Or if any of these adults are dual citizens and the country they are being held in does not recognize this duality then that could prove difficult also. In any event I think a lot of prisoners in these war torn countries will be released pretty soon after hostilities calm down. I doubt the public would hear about it though. Holding those war prisoners is another way of calming the situation, less fighters on the streets. It's also doubtful any of them have come before any kind of judge except maybe a kangaroo court and their sentences was more than likely not determined. There's a whole industry in the western world surrounding prisoners and jails. In the middle east not so much. If these prisoners of war start taking up too much space they will let them go.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  23. #23

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    Looks like champking/Mroilers is in favour of sharia law.

  24. #24

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    I wonder if they have a "Final Solution" to deal with all these brown people & their pesky rights that get in the way of good ol' fashioned reveng---errr I mean justice.
    Last edited by noodle; 21-07-2017 at 01:34 PM.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  25. #25

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    Hey noodle - do you ever actually argue with someone who disagrees with your left-leaning views? All I ever see you do is oppose. Oppose, oppose, oppose! No thought, no original ideas, just name-calling and opposing!

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Hey noodle - do you ever actually argue with someone who disagrees with your left-leaning views? All I ever see you do is oppose. Oppose, oppose, oppose! No thought, no original ideas, just name-calling and opposing!
    An assessment of your political beliefs as you have personally expressed on the forums & relating them in broadly understood terms is not name-calling.

    If you don't want to be called a fascist, don't be a fascist or don't sound like a fascist, fascist.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Blame our Charter - it's a document that is clearly full of holes.

    My personal opinion is that it was written by liberal lawyers simply to grant job security to liberal lawyers and judges for the next century.
    Thanks for putting this out there, it's fantastic for you to be so plain-speaking when showing a complete lack of respect for our constitution, our legal/judicial system & our stance on human rights.
    Trudeau's dad created it - so it must be perfect (just like the NEB was)... funny how Quebec was opposed to it. I agree with Mr Oilers, the judges / lawyers here are just creating a multi-million dollar subsidy for themselves, and Liberals are cheering them on (as lawyers tend to be big Liberal supporters / donors, often end up Liberal MP's).
    Last edited by moahunter; 21-07-2017 at 02:36 PM.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    An assessment of your political beliefs as you have personally expressed on the forums & relating them in broadly understood terms is not name-calling.

    If you don't want to be called a fascist, don't be a fascist or don't sound like a fascist, fascist.

    Thanks for proving how leftism is the "ethnic purity" of the 21st century.

    Yup, step in line with the far left or be crushed and outcast by public shaming, bullying, and harassment. Fascist, indeed.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    If Canada has no extradition treaty with the countries where these adults are being held it could be very difficult to get them back to Canada.
    That won't stop Supreme Court judges wanting Canada to try, after all, our soldiers trained the soldiers who captured these ISIS Canadians. Heck, we don't have an extradition treaty with Guantanamo Bay (which is not part of the US), but that didn't stop the Supreme Court demanding, did it?
    Last edited by moahunter; 21-07-2017 at 02:44 PM.

  30. #30

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    I'm actually a centrist. It only appears I'm "far left" because you're a right-wing illiberal who espouses fascist views & regurgitates conservative rhetoric at every opportunity.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  31. #31

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    Actually, I am a centrist. But all you do is oppose anyone with a view on the right of yours.

    You even admitted that's what you do - to always oppose people with different perspectives than your own. Oppose oppose oppose!

  32. #32

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    ^Mr Oilers and me are far more central than you will ever be, just look at how our views align with the general publics views on Khadr.

  33. #33

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    If only government rules by popular opinion instead of doing what's right... imagine the country we would be in!

  34. #34

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    Why imagine? You can see it right now!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presid...odrigo_Duterte
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    If only government rules by popular opinion instead of doing what's right... imagine the country we would be in!
    Noodle was the one who claimed to be a centrist. I correctly pointed out at that on this issue, he is far from a centrist, he is an extremist left winger. Most Canadians don't think its right for us to be wasting taxpayer dollars trying to free Canadian terrorists from cells around the world. The Supreme Court in Canada has always been left wing / liberal party biased - sadly, its almost as loony left as the cbc is on this issue. It would be great if the Canadian charter could be corrected to be more like the US bill or rights that only protects Americans, in America, but I expect when you and Noodle's hero, Trudeau senior, developed it, he intentionally intended it to benefit the legal profession who have always been major Liberal party donors.
    Last edited by moahunter; 21-07-2017 at 04:19 PM.

  36. #36

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    I must have missed that update when they made populist & centrist interchangeable.

    How my politics align with the Canadian zeitgeist doesn't really change where they align with the political spectrum writ large.

    Keep on being the human embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect moa. I can always use a good laugh.
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  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    If Canada has no extradition treaty with the countries where these adults are being held it could be very difficult to get them back to Canada.
    That won't stop Supreme Court judges wanting Canada to try, after all, our soldiers trained the soldiers who captured these ISIS Canadians. Heck, we don't have an extradition treaty with Guantanamo Bay (which is not part of the US), but that didn't stop the Supreme Court demanding, did it?
    Guantanamo Bay was a military detention camp. The military ran it and not civil servants (at least not your usual ones). Military and civilian prisons have different policies and procedures. For a start Kadhr should not have been there due to his age. The whole issue of Kadhr was totally frucked up by various players in the U S and Canadian government. I really don't know why you started another thread on this. Your failure to even grasp the basic legal premise of the Kadhr case will not change no matter what is posted on this thread or Kadhr's thread. You know the old saying 'there are non so blind as those who will not see', well in this case it applies to you.
    Last edited by Gemini; 21-07-2017 at 05:50 PM.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  38. #38

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    Hilarious that a guy spamming the place with all these right wing view threads is calling himself a centrist. I realise Australia and NZ have occasionally jumped the shark but is Moa thinking he's Center by Canadian standards or somewhere else..

    The OP is unforgettably a right winger. Nobody could read that, and Moa's usually posts here and think anything but.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  39. #39

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    as i mentioned in the other thread there will be a major issue in dealing with canadians abroad.. if the govt is aware youve been harmed/tortured while abroad and choose to ignore your charter rights what then??

    Every canadian in almost every jail across the world can make a charter rights claim.

    Noodle seems to think it only matters if the govt visits you..

  40. #40

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    ^Canadians in a jails abroad can make a charter of rights claim but it does not mean that their rights have been breached. If you decide to go to France with a suitcase full of illegal drugs and you get caught, given due process and convicted then sent to jail for 15 years no doubt the Government of France will inform the Canadian Government and they will follow the normal procedures. The Canadian Government cannot change the status of your conviction. If you don't like the food the jail gives you, the canned music they play, the way they do your laundry etc. that's too bad. If they were torturing you physically and mentally, starving you, putting you in solitary for long lengths or doing anything that is deemed an infringement of your human rights a Canadian official is compelled to intervene on your behalf to ensure your well being.
    I think it's pretty well know that most Canadians who are incarcerated in foreign jails are in U S jails and a fair amount in Mexico.

    If you could supply us with a couple of current incidences of Canadians in foreign jails who's human rights are being violated that would be great.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  41. #41

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    Very well stated Gemini.

    Too bad that the band of human rights haters don't want to listen and learn.

    Here comes another round of deflection and spurious claims by the usual suspects.
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  42. #42

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    if you get arrested in south america and thrown in a cell with 8 people when its meant to fit 2 and are fed scraps.. would the trial matter if your basic needs are barely being met?

    How about being raped in jail where its normal and the guards do nothing. Maybe its the guards raping you or beating you. This isnt out of the realm of possibilities for most jails in 3rd world countries.

    Heck the one canadian teacher i saw on cbc in the philipines was guilty before his trial happened....

    Your right though. Most countries in this world treat their prisoners with respect and dignity. The judicial process is fair in most countries. /sarcasm

  43. #43

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    I think we were looking for specific examples

    As far as getting raped in prison, you don't have to leave Canada to find that.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  44. #44

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    Theres thousands of canadians abroad held in jails. These arent canadian jails.

    I have friends and family working in the jails in alberta. The stories i hear blow my mind... i couldnt imagine what one would here when there is no one worrying about the rights of prisoners.

    I think this was the cbc half hour show i saw that left me scratching my head.. this article doesnt touch upon all the issues.

    http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/0...n_6991380.html
    Last edited by gwill211; 21-07-2017 at 08:12 PM.

  45. #45

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    An article written at a later date than yours.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...esia-1.3468084

    Just because we don't hear about these things it does not say the government is not working behind the scenes.


    Last stats I seen on Canadians incarcerated abroad was for 2013 and it was approx. 1,600. Now unless there has been a huge spike I doubt it is the thousands a couple of people are mentioning.
    Different types of prisoners: Criminal, political, prisoners of war etc.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  46. #46

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    Just watched CBC and they reported two Quebec circus performers who were arrested in China for marijuana use. Canadian Consular officials have been contacted.

    The system works as it should.
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  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The OP is unforgettably a right winger. Nobody could read that, and Moa's usually posts here and think anything but.
    If moahunter has demonstrated anything, it's that he is far more tolerant of differing views, and more open to discussing them with a mature and respectful tone, than most forum members of the left are.

  48. #48

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    As if you can talk...
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Crazy , that the left believes: terrorists deserve rights and freedoms.
    Blame our Charter - it's a document that is clearly full of holes.

    My personal opinion is that it was written by liberal lawyers simply to grant job security to liberal lawyers and judges for the next century.
    If you are a dual citizen, and you are acting against Canada, you should lose your Canadian citizenship, if you are a permanent resident and you act against Canada you are acting against the terms that allow your residency.

    Here is the oath you take to become a citizen
    I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen
    You by acting against Canada are breaking your oath, so in fact you have breached your side of the contract with Canada, so Canada has no obligations to you.

    Unfortunately Justin Trudeau has stated "The Liberal Party believes that terrorists should get to keep their Canadian citizenship ... because I do"
    www.ctvnews.ca/politics/in-audio-recording-trudeau-says-bill-c-24-makes-citizenship-conditional-upon-good-behaviour-1.2583849

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The OP is unforgettably a right winger. Nobody could read that, and Moa's usually posts here and think anything but.
    If moahunter has demonstrated anything, it's that he is far more tolerant of differing views, and more open to discussing them with a mature and respectful tone, than most forum members of the left are.
    One of the more ridiculous things I've read here. In a thread that Moa has spammed after losing similar arguments in every other thread that he has spammed with Khadr issues. Even after Admin requested that this not occur.

    How is that respecting and mature?


    Take off your political alignment glasses and Moa doesn't come off as reasonable. The only reason you would even perceive that, or defend this poster is due to political alignment.

    Almost everybody else realizes why Moa started this thread.
    Last edited by Replacement; 23-07-2017 at 03:15 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Crazy , that the left believes: terrorists deserve rights and freedoms.
    Blame our Charter - it's a document that is clearly full of holes.

    My personal opinion is that it was written by liberal lawyers simply to grant job security to liberal lawyers and judges for the next century.
    If you are a dual citizen, and you are acting against Canada, you should lose your Canadian citizenship, if you are a permanent resident and you act against Canada you are acting against the terms that allow your residency.

    Here is the oath you take to become a citizen
    I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen
    You by acting against Canada are breaking your oath, so in fact you have breached your side of the contract with Canada, so Canada has no obligations to you.

    Unfortunately Justin Trudeau has stated "The Liberal Party believes that terrorists should get to keep their Canadian citizenship ... because I do"
    www.ctvnews.ca/politics/in-audio-recording-trudeau-says-bill-c-24-makes-citizenship-conditional-upon-good-behaviour-1.2583849
    But a reasonable view is that a youth does not break such accord. In the spirit and writing, and application of our legislation we don't hold youth to the standards we hold adults to. We don't equate their decision making, maturity, or their mistakes or transgressions.

    Next, what you state would potentially remove the citizenship of a person based on the influence and actions of the father, the family, etc. Is it right to you that Khadr would lose Citizenship because of his father?

    One of the great things about a free and open society is that children and youth are not judged on their parents actions, or who they are. Give that up and we're giving up a lot more than one would think.

    Upon further reflection how do you disentangle your notion of what should occur with some central Canadian, and free world belief systems.

    I wouldn't want to reside in a country that blames children and youth for their parents affiliation and transgressions.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  52. #52
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    I'm not talking specifically about Omar Khadr, he was born in Canada and is not a dual citizen. Sort of hard to take away citizenship from someone born here. His mom and siblings ... sure.

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