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Thread: When you gotta go, but there’s no public toilet in sight

  1. #1
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    Default When you gotta go, but there’s no public toilet in sight

    When you gotta go, but there’s no public toilet in sight
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ticle35782108/

    In Canada, we behave as if urination, defecation and menstruation are not routine bodily functions, but are somehow optional if we are away from our homes.

    We design, construct and maintain public spaces such as roads, sidewalks and parks, but act as if people using those spaces will never need a bathroom unless they are attending an “event” such as Canada Day, and you need to content yourself with a long line-up to use a porta-potty that requires you to hold your breath.

    Toilets need to be considered a No. 1 (and No. 2) priority of urban design; they are essential for an inclusive, healthy society.

    This is particularly true as the population ages, and more and more people live with chronic health conditions. A number of health issues affect bodily functions, including diabetes, colorectal cancer, irritable bowel syndrome, prostatitis, shingles, stroke and dementia, not to mention the regular needs of children, pregnant women, menstruating women and anyone with a bladder or a colon.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I fully expect some resolution and movement on this for 2018.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I fully expect some resolution and movement on this for 2018.
    I'm sure some architectural whiz will get right on it.

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    I wouldn't want to have that project dumped onto my desk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I fully expect some resolution and movement on this for 2018.
    I'm sure some architectural whiz will get right on it.
    If there is some resistance, he can figure it out with a pencil...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I wouldn't want to have that project dumped onto my desk.
    LOL! Good one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I fully expect some resolution and movement on this for 2018.
    I'm sure some architectural whiz will get right on it.
    If there is some resistance, he can figure it out with a pencil...
    But with all the controversy, there could be leaks to the media.

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    That all depends!
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    I got a whiff of something on the board.

    This thread has gone right down the tubes.


    Flush this thread..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Supposatory gets wind of this. What then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I got a whiff of something on the board.

    This thread has gone right down the tubes.


    Flush this thread..
    Sh1t disturber...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    This whole thread's gone septic. Tanked!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    The activity stream is really gushing with posts about this...

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    Yeah, it is really plugging up the forum...
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    I tend to think our city has overlooked this for a very long time.

    Perhaps part of the equation is that on an ongoing basis, the majority of us aren't regularly using public infrastructure other than roadways. We've been and continue to be a car-centric city and until this changes in earnest, the "need" hasn't really been apparent as we can typically get to a destination to conduct our business.

    Of course, in practical terms, those out and about on a Friday/Saturday night or those out for an evening stroll do have limited options when nature calls. Many places in Europe tend to have the pay toilets. Public washrooms can be, and experience in this city has shown to be, quite expensive. Perhaps a pay-as-you-go (minor cost) concept could pay for the installation / maintenance of these washrooms.

    This issue is also not new, but it isn't going away either. The more urban / walkable our city becomes, the more this issue will become problematic.

    Here's a CBC article from 2009 outlining the issue:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...onton-1.794235

    Any architects / planners care to chime in here as to how future development to buildings or streets could leverage these activities to install much less costly public washrooms? Could amendments to building codes assist with this issue by requiring certain facilities be built by developers?

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    Shame there wasn't some room in the $4.5M budget for ADP to get some public washrooms put in. I guess that's more of a >$5M park level of amenities though.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    I blame Ian for turning this thread into a punfest.

    ^^ As the article says, the lack of washroom facilities is also a problem in supposedly walkable cities, not just the car-centric ones. A few years ago I was in Montreal, where one morning I had something for breakfast that didn't agree with me, got hit with a dose of mud butt and thus spend most of the next few hours hunting down washroom facilities instead of being able to explore the city. There were no public facilities and most restaurants wouldn't let me use theirs since I was not a customer, so I finally gave up and wandered back to my hotel.

    And what what happened to me above is a daily ritual for people I know who suffer from Crohns and other IBDs. Needless to say, I think going to hockey games at Rogers Place will be out of the question for some of them.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    There is one major factor not mentioned in the Globe & Mail article.

    Municipalities and communities are hesitant to provide public washrooms for fear they will be abused by the sketchy folks of the population. No one wants to see washrooms being overtaking by drug users who need their fix. Or homeless people using it as a temporary shelter.

    Just two weeks ago I was on the bus to work. At 7:30am an a Sunday the bus stopped at Whyte and Gateway Blvd. Looking inside the men's public washroom across from the Strathcona Bar, I spotted an individual passed out on the floor. A bicycle loaded with all of his belongings (I assume) was beside him too.

    I think cities are reluctant to deal with the extra costs of vandalism and security to maintain public johns.

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    I imagine that problem would be reduced if drug users had an alternative place to go. Like a safe injection site, perhaps?
    There can only be one.

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    ^^Was #211 called?
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    "We cant build more public bathrooms or else the most vulnerable members of society who do not have regular access to these facilities may use them"



    While I agree washrooms are not safe injection sites or shelters it is not a good enough excuse to halt building new washrooms.
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    There's not that many homeless people, really. Maybe the solution isn't to have only one washroom. If there were 10, chances are only a couple would have anyone loitering about at any one time.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    I don't know I really don't recall public wash rooms to be all that accessible in Europe. Simple enough to had some Amsterdam style street urinals to Edmonton since they are essentially a drain, slab of concrete to aim at and a cylindrical shield blocking your lower half with mesh upper half so you can make eye contact with passerby while relieving yourself. Also not even enough room for some one to lie down in so no worry about vagrants.

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    Sounds like the City is going to add a temporary washroom facility to Beaverhills Park. More info to come.
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    Not sure I like that location, given the park's already (based on history and not currently deserved IMHO) bad rep.

    But, if not there, fair 'nuff, where? To me, the more, umm, problematic crowd is about three blocks further west.
    Last edited by McBoo; 14-08-2017 at 02:08 PM.
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    They are also looking at another location closer to the arena.

    This is to address issues in the alley from patrons existing Rogers. They want one a block or 2 away and this a few away as people head to their next place.
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    Purchase a few ground level parkade stalls at CCM and/or north of JV?
    ... gobsmacked

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    I have requested them to do that in the lot north of the storage building on 103ave/104st.

    Highly visible and right there for people to and fro.
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    That'd be perfect. Which means they won't do it.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    They are also looking at another location closer to the arena.

    This is to address issues in the alley from patrons existing Rogers. They want one a block or 2 away and this a few away as people head to their next place.
    Shame that we spent $4.5M on a park for dogs to pee in but not people.
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  31. #31

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    Shame we spent $600 million on an arena and didn't think that people would have to pee after drinking all that overpriced beer. But, at least other parts of downtown get to deal with the fall out.

    Why not put one right here?

    https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.54626...7i13312!8i6656
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 15-08-2017 at 02:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Shame we spent $600 million on an arena and didn't think that people would have to pee after drinking all that overpriced beer. But, at least other parts of downtown get to deal with the fall out.

    Why not put one right here?

    https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.54626...7i13312!8i6656
    Because someone needing to relieve themselves there could easily walk 50-100' inside the arena and use a washroom?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    They are also looking at another location closer to the arena.

    This is to address issues in the alley from patrons existing Rogers. They want one a block or 2 away and this a few away as people head to their next place.
    Shame that we spent $4.5M on a park for dogs to pee in but not people.
    You really are something.

    Washrooms were discussed for that park and it was decided for a variety of reasons not to include them.

    How about shame on those who can't plan ahead, head to a pub or hold it.

    There will some temporary options for folks and more permanent ones coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Shame we spent $600 million on an arena and didn't think that people would have to pee after drinking all that overpriced beer. But, at least other parts of downtown get to deal with the fall out.

    Why not put one right here?

    https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.54626...7i13312!8i6656
    Because someone needing to relieve themselves there could easily walk 50-100' inside the arena and use a washroom?
    You mean the too few washrooms that are available inside the arena unless you are one of the highest paying Tier 1 customers? And how, pray tell, can someone even get to use an arena washroom without a ticket? Plus there's the no-out-and-in rule in place.


    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Washrooms were discussed for that park and it was decided for a variety of reasons not to include them.
    A disappointing decision if you ask me.
    To quote from the original article:

    "Toilets need to be considered a No. 1 (and No. 2) priority of urban design; they are essential for an inclusive, healthy society.
    This is particularly true as the population ages, and more and more people live with chronic health conditions. A number of health issues affect bodily functions, including diabetes, colorectal cancer, irritable bowel syndrome, prostatitis, shingles, stroke and dementia, not to mention the regular needs of children, pregnant women, menstruating women and anyone with a bladder or a colon."


    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    How about shame on those who can't plan ahead, head to a pub or hold it.
    Having people close to me who suffer from some of the above issues, I find this statement to be patently ridiculous and borderline offensive. I guess downtown ain't for everyone after all. If you have urinary or bowel issues, stay home, you are not wanted. If you eat a meal at the hipster haunt du jour and it gives you diarrhea? Well too bad, son.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Shame we spent $600 million on an arena and didn't think that people would have to pee after drinking all that overpriced beer. But, at least other parts of downtown get to deal with the fall out.

    Why not put one right here?

    https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.54626...7i13312!8i6656
    Because someone needing to relieve themselves there could easily walk 50-100' inside the arena and use a washroom?
    So they can easily cross the street and pee in the alley instead?

    The arena is the source of this problem. It should also be the solution, at least the majority of it.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    You really are something.

    Washrooms were discussed for that park and it was decided for a variety of reasons not to include them.
    Yeah, because the park was designed to service an exceedingly narrow demographic.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    How about shame on those who can't plan ahead, head to a pub or hold it.
    Ah yes, because we're all 100% prescient & in control about the timing of our bodily functions 100% of the time, especially for those very old or very young. Blaming & shaming those people does nothing. Frankly, that's a callous & arrogant response, even for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    There will some temporary options for folks and more permanent ones coming.
    Billions of dollars spent & all we can manage for the foreseeable future is portapotties. Bravo, Ice District, DECL, CoE et al.
    Last edited by noodle; 16-08-2017 at 09:04 AM. Reason: Fixed typo/paste remnant
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    is it any surprise decl didnt want washrooms downtown or at this park? I thought downtown was for everyone. I guess we can add a new item to the list of things decl and the usual dt crowd will campaign against. The undesirables that would use these washrooms arent part of the welcomed crowd downtown.

    Noodles comment was hilarious. We can spend millions on a park so dogs can pee but we can't figure out a solution for people?

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    Washrooms were considered, but after much discussion with all parties including the COE, it was decided that this park would not have permanent facilities. Instead it would have room for temporary ones. There are available public washrooms and private ones available nearby or within a couple of blocks.

    One of the reasons for NOT including a washroom in ADP is that there was limited room as is, limited budget and other more effective places for them.

    Keep in mind that while public washrooms are very important for urban areas, the root of this issue is from the folks who walk out of Rogers post event and decide to use our community as their latrine.

    Portable washrooms will be installed with more permanent options forthcoming.
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  39. #39

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    It's only space constrained because of how terrible the layout is, thanks to the relatively large amount of area devoted to dogs & gardening. The budget is limited, but not enough to cancel the water feature that'll be off >50% of the year.

    If only we'd put more emphasis on year-round amenities for humans & not wasted so much space & money on seasonal things we'd not be having this discussion. But then the park wouldn't be quite so shrink-wrapped, tailor-fit to your own personal demographic.

    No playground, no washroom, no child-focused amenities whatsoever, but places for dogs, to park food trucks & portapotties or maybe grow a week's worth of produce in a growing season.

    Downtown truly is for everyone*.






    *: Everyone does not include the very old, the very young, the afflicted, the poor or anyone who doesn't fit an exceedingly narrow demographic that curiously lines up almost entirely with those involved in the design of the park itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    You mean the too few washrooms that are available inside the arena unless you are one of the highest paying Tier 1 customers? And how, pray tell, can someone even get to use an arena washroom without a ticket? Plus there's the no-out-and-in rule in place.


    The people that the washrooms are to serve are arena customers. If someone would use a washroom basically immediately outside of the arena, chances are, they'd have used one inside the arena on their way out. And there isn't a problem with washroom access after games, it's entirely during intermissions that there's an issue. Maybe for the first couple minutes immediately after a game there will be a bit of a wait, but the building clears out very quickly.

    For all those reasons, washrooms are needed blocks away from the arena. Not on the front door step.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz
    So they can easily cross the street and pee in the alley instead?

    The arena is the source of this problem. It should also be the solution, at least the majority of it.


    It may be the source, but it's not the destination for it's customers after the game/event is over. Said customers are dispersing throughout the downtown either to catch a cab/transit, get back to their vehicle, walk home, get a bite to eat or have some drinks. They are not going to walk back to the arena and across the 6+ lanes of 104 avenue to use a washroom in front of it when they're half a dozen or more blocks away.

    To me the location at 105 street and Jasper Avenue is just about perfect, as it's near a very high density of drinking establishments, and more or less on the stumbling path between Rogers and said establishments.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 16-08-2017 at 10:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    It's only space constrained because of how terrible the layout is, thanks to the relatively large amount of area devoted to dogs & gardening. The budget is limited, but not enough to cancel the water feature that'll be off >50% of the year.

    If only we'd put more emphasis on year-round amenities for humans & not wasted so much space & money on seasonal things we'd not be having this discussion. But then the park wouldn't be quite so shrink-wrapped, tailor-fit to your own personal demographic.

    No playground, no washroom, no child-focused amenities whatsoever, but places for dogs, to park food trucks & portapotties or maybe grow a week's worth of produce in a growing season.

    Downtown truly is for everyone*.






    *: Everyone does not include the very old, the very young, the afflicted, the poor or anyone who doesn't fit an exceedingly narrow demographic that curiously lines up almost entirely with those involved in the design of the park itself.
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  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Gold star armchair guy.
    Thanks! I appreciate your snarky, sarcastic accolades as much as I appreciate any & all of your feedback on me as a person. Which is not at all, really, but you seem to like trying to get a dig in & I wanted you to feel acknowledged.

    Keep on thinking you know anything about me based upon the exceedingly narrow view you get here & by creeping my social media posts.
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  43. #43

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    ian- I disagree with noodle on absolutely everything but he is 100 percent spot on with the park/washrooms. There are actual real concerns in his ramblings that you choose to ignore.

    Your vision for downtown being for everyone should always have the asterix beside it.

  44. #44

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    So restaurants and retail outlets should be welcoming thousands of people to use their washrooms because the arena brought them all downtown and left them no place to pee.

    People are already peeing within a block or two of the arena. It's not like they've walked half a mile and decided that the suddenly have to go. If you'll pee in the alley across the street, you knew you had to go when you were leaving the building.

    But the small retail outlets can put up with non-paying customers tying up their facilities, using their soap and towels and TP and most likely leaving the pace in a mess because the arena is so wonderful.

    It's no different than a bar over serving people and expecting the city to clean up the puke on the sidewalks.

  45. #45

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    but all parties agreed permanent washrooms arent needed in the park. As per our glorious all knowing Ian.

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    Not that this is a perfect defense but as a city we are hardly unique when it comes to this problem. My girlfriend and I were in Edinburgh for the Fringe just last week and they have the same problem. Whenever I had to go I went into a private establishment and used their facilities. I felt especially bad when I wasn't a paying customer but what else was I to do. It's either that or go in an alley. The good thing is that the staff never seemed to mind as I was never approached about it. If places like Edinburgh can take that approach why can't we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ian- I disagree with noodle on absolutely everything but he is 100 percent spot on with the park/washrooms. There are actual real concerns in his ramblings that you choose to ignore.

    Your vision for downtown being for everyone should always have the asterix beside it.
    I don't disagree with the need, the different requirements of various folks, but this park it was determined by the COE that it was not the place as other places are available and future capacity is coming, simple as that.
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    So what other places are available near the new park? More importantly, does the owner/management of said places allow the general public to use their facilities?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  49. #49

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    https://www.edmonton.ca/activities_p...-a-pottys.aspx

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ts-in-edmonton

    First list only covers parks, second is 5 years old. Doesn't look like there's anything public, but there may be some public-accessible private washrooms for use.
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  50. #50

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    This park is clearly just for the people in the area. The CoE chose to prioritize amenities that are of primary use only to the immediately local residents at the expense of amenities that'd serve the general public. Hence the token urban garden & fenced off astroturf for doggies but no washrooms. Downtown is for Everyone (who lives Downtown).
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    Odd, last time I visited most of the neighbourhood parks in other parts of the City I saw no washrooms or they were locked in the very few that had them.

    This park is for everyone, but its primary purpose is to provide the local residents green space, a garden, a place for their pups and a place to share as a community, yes.
    www.decl.org

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  52. #52

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    Oddly enough, I actually availed myself of 3 of the public facilities located in 3 different public parks over the last few weeks. It's almost as if you don't bother reading any of my links & automatically launch into hyperdefensive mode, since I provided the rather extensive list of public parks that have washrooms.

    E: It's telling that the City divides the list into

    • River Valley West
    • River Valley East
    • Southeast
    • Southwest
    • Northeast
    • Northwest


    But has nothing for central.
    Last edited by noodle; 17-08-2017 at 08:54 AM.
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    Regardless, there is a need for publicly accessible washrooms Downtown, we all know that and the City is working on temporary solutions until something similar to Whyte/Gateway can be built.

    There are public washrooms at The Federal Building/Leg grounds, Churchill Square, City Hall, Louise McKinney Park, Central Station, Churchill Station, The Milner and the Downtown Community rink.

    Options are available and certainly many available if you go in and buy a pop, coffee or pint.
    www.decl.org

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  54. #54

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    The fact you think that what exists is in any way acceptable or appropriate shows just how little understanding or compassion you have regarding the issue. A couple blocks walk or a couple bucks spent isn't an option for many people & if you stopped to think of people outside your own white, childless, ablebodied, urbanist, affluent demographic & think about people who don't have the copious advantages & privileges that you're afforded of maybe you'd not come across as a condescending, unfeeling sociopath.
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    Stop, please stop. I deal with this issue everyday and many of us are actually working on solutions, extra capacity and more signage to let people know 'where to go'.
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  56. #56

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    Turns out the 10 Ds are as appropriate in civic & development threads as the political ones.

    Deflect
    Delay
    Deny

    Discount
    Deceive
    Divide
    Dulcify
    Discredit
    Destroy
    Deal
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  57. #57
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    Determined
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  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Stop, please stop. I deal with this issue everyday and many of us are actually working on solutions, extra capacity and more signage to let people know 'where to go'.
    With all due respect Ian its something I've been bringing up here, contacting 311 about for a FULL DECADE.

    The fact of the matter is precious few options to go are available DT and especially after hours or on a Sunday. The DT has been mostly devoid of public washrooms that are actually available, serviced, secure, and not locked up. Match with businesses that take the "no customer, no washroom" tact. Yeah, I'm celiac, when my guts are ready to burst I want to order something off the menu before eruption..

    I've rarely seen a DT ANYWHERE that is so hostile to the most basic of animal functions.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Determined
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    Deluded.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  60. #60
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    Disappointed.
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  61. #61

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    D!ck-waving?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  62. #62

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    The outside of the men's washroom on Whyte Avenue have outdoor urinals with sideways privacy screens and open backs. It wouldn't help with ladies, or gentlemen having to deal with defecation, but it would help deal with male urination. According to the National Post, Victoria started with portable urinals, and then installed permanent ones in alleys that actually look descent and work reasonably well. We should at least deploy portables one in bulk after events at Rogers, and on the weekends, in both Downtown and Whyte Avenue. Ultimately, we need full washrooms to serve everyone, but these would help in the interim.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://patent7000.com/gfx/Image/DSC04256.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by National Post

  63. #63

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    ^I thought urinals weren't going to be allowed allowed in gender neutral Canada.

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    I have no problem with urinals because they solve the majority of the problem. Not many ladies are peeing on the walls.

    I've occasionally seen the results of someone taking a dump (a gender equivalent case) but it is very rare in comparison with the other.

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I thought urinals weren't going to be allowed allowed in gender neutral Canada.
    The portable ones have no provision for ladies, but the permanent Victoria ones have some marginal allowances:
    Quote Originally Posted by The National Post
    It’s a male-only device device, of course (males are “95% of the problem,” explained Victoria Mayor Dean Fortin at the urinal’s official ribbon cutting) but the urinal is equipped with handles and a lower-than-average receptacle to give adventurous women a chance at emergency relief.
    I doubt to many ladies would want to leave themselves vulnerable while using the urinal, as it would have no locked door, but some may be desperate enough. On Canada Day, on the way to the fireworks, I once saw one particularly inebriated lady move into the tall grass beside the trail in green belt running along the High Level Street car track; I moved along, and heard the sound of liquid flowing behind me. I could see the urinals being used by ladies in a similar state.

  66. #66

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    If a lady is desperate enough to pee on the street, I doubt a porta-potty would bother them much.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    The park in question is too small for a public restroom, in my opinion. I see this as an attack IanO, who I do not know, issue.

    Where are the restroom facilities in Railtown Park, Ezio Farone Park, Kitchner spray park etc? Are there restrooms at Beaver Hills Park? I have not noticed. Unless the park is of size a public restroom is too much of a liability as it will be for better or worse inundated with street people, which then will require the added cost of security in the park.

    I have little kids and we are out and about downtown all the time. We have never encountered an issue with having to use a bathroom. The odd time when an emergency situation has occurred, I have yet to encounter a restaurant, coffee shop or business that will not let you use their facilities. In gratitude, buy a coffee or something.

    With regard to Rogers Place, we are Oilers' STH, up in the peasant section, we use the bathroom before we leave. Wait 5 min and the lines clear out of the bathroom. I call it personal responsibility, go before you leave. I do not expect the city to have to provide bathrooms anywhere close to Rogers. Where are the public restrooms outside of Commonwealth? I have not noticed.

    If your condition requires a restroom that urgently and that frequently, then sadly you have to plan ahead and be aware of your options. If that does not work, then unfortunately you might have to reconsider where your visit.

    Just my opinion as a citizen of Downtown, and a taxpayer. Many will disagree.

  68. #68

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    Why isn't it also a problem around Commonwealth then? And if it is, what hasn't something been done about it there? If people are leaving the arena with bladders so full they can't make it more than a block or two, then the problem is in the arena.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Where are the restroom facilities in Railtown Park, Ezio Farone Park, Kitchner spray park etc? Are there restrooms at Beaver Hills Park? I have not noticed. Unless the park is of size a public restroom is too much of a liability as it will be for better or worse inundated with street people, which then will require the added cost of security in the park.
    The point of the article states that washrooms should be a high priority for urban design but that clearly doesn't happen in this city.

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    I have little kids and we are out and about downtown all the time. We have never encountered an issue with having to use a bathroom. The odd time when an emergency situation has occurred, I have yet to encounter a restaurant, coffee shop or business that will not let you use their facilities. In gratitude, buy a coffee or something.
    Sure, some shops and eateries may let you use their washrooms but overall the business community has perpetuated this expectation that you have to be a customer for the privilege. If I have to buy something first - how long do you have to wait in a lineup of customers or have to wait for the clerk to make the coffee or handle your purchase before being allowed to relieve yourself? If you're on your way to a meeting but the biological matters can't wait, how much time are you expected to spend at this shop?

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    With regard to Rogers Place, we are Oilers' STH, up in the peasant section, we use the bathroom before we leave. Wait 5 min and the lines clear out of the bathroom. I call it personal responsibility, go before you leave. I do not expect the city to have to provide bathrooms anywhere close to Rogers. Where are the public restrooms outside of Commonwealth? I have not noticed.
    Unlike Rogers Place and its ridiculous lineups, the Commonwealth Stadium has plenty of washrooms and most of them are not reserved solely for the highest paying customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    If your condition requires a restroom that urgently and that frequently, then sadly you have to plan ahead and be aware of your options.
    Many people cannot plan when they have to use a washroom. You can be perfectly fine at first, you dine out on something that doesn't agree with you and then 30 minutes later while you're out and about and suddenly you have to relieve yourself of diarrhea and are barely able to hold it in.

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    If that does not work, then unfortunately you might have to reconsider where your visit.
    And it's really inhumane of some of you to expect people with such issues to never leave their homes.

    Accessible washrooms are a must everywhere, especially in a country with a high incidence of IBDs.
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    How about shame on those who can't plan ahead, head to a pub or hold it.
    Dude, just apologize for this so we can move on.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

  71. #71
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    Are public washrooms shown on the Edmonton Pedway map or downtown maps?
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  72. #72
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    It appears as though they are, but then do not show some of the others at grade.

    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD..._Map_Final.pdf
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  73. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    The park in question is too small for a public restroom, in my opinion. I see this as an attack IanO, who I do not know, issue.

    Where are the restroom facilities in Railtown Park, Ezio Farone Park, Kitchner spray park etc? Are there restrooms at Beaver Hills Park? I have not noticed. Unless the park is of size a public restroom is too much of a liability as it will be for better or worse inundated with street people, which then will require the added cost of security in the park.

    I have little kids and we are out and about downtown all the time. We have never encountered an issue with having to use a bathroom. The odd time when an emergency situation has occurred, I have yet to encounter a restaurant, coffee shop or business that will not let you use their facilities. In gratitude, buy a coffee or something.

    With regard to Rogers Place, we are Oilers' STH, up in the peasant section, we use the bathroom before we leave. Wait 5 min and the lines clear out of the bathroom. I call it personal responsibility, go before you leave. I do not expect the city to have to provide bathrooms anywhere close to Rogers. Where are the public restrooms outside of Commonwealth? I have not noticed.

    If your condition requires a restroom that urgently and that frequently, then sadly you have to plan ahead and be aware of your options. If that does not work, then unfortunately you might have to reconsider where your visit.

    Just my opinion as a citizen of Downtown, and a taxpayer. Many will disagree.
    You can't be serious with this. You actually think a person with Celiac disease or any other gastrointestinal disorder does not know where washrooms are or plan ahead? lol

    I can tell you where most washrooms are located any place I go to and even in Vancouver, Calgary, Victoria, Saskatoon, Winnipeg etc.

    What you don't seem to realize is that some of these are closed at different times. For instance the Shaw Conference Center. In other cases LRT washrooms are shutdown, locked, a Library washroom that is full of people doing drugs etc. Add to this that many locations, coffee places in Edmonton close Early on Sunday if they are open at all.

    The Citadel Theater is probably the most reliable place in the City to go to the washroom and a place that lets people use the washroom when they are open. Hotels let people use the washrooms as well but many have their washrooms in less assessable locations or not on main floor (Westin)

    Someone with gastrointestinal disorders has about 5mins to find a washroom before the bomb goes off. Its zero to 60 like that, and with no forewarning.

    Live your life like that before spouting off about a condition you know absolutely nothing about.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Odd, last time I visited most of the neighbourhood parks in other parts of the City I saw no washrooms or they were locked in the very few that had them.

    This park is for everyone, but its primary purpose is to provide the local residents green space, a garden, a place for their pups and a place to share as a community, yes.
    All neighbourhood parks are for everyone but did they have this kind of price tag?

  75. #75
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    ^^which is why (collective) we are working to add new locations, both temporary and permanent. This along with ensuring better wayfinding and signage. If people cannot be comfortable in an area they are visiting and/or have a backup plan, people won't visit very long. This is a priority for many of us.

    ^you would be surprised...
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  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    All neighbourhood parks are for everyone but did they have this kind of price tag?
    It's not the overall cost, it's value-for-dollar that bothers me. $4.5M is a lot of cash for a park that's so limited. It's concrete, fountains, sod & astroturf on a flat chunk of land.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  77. #77

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    When leaving Rogers there is no issue with bathrooms. I've been to a handful of events there and the only issue with bathrooms is during hockey intermissions. That's it. The entire rest of the time it's fine. And they're building more washrooms now anyway so that argument is about to be completely decimated during that teeny tiny window when it is a problem now.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  78. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    When leaving Rogers there is no issue with bathrooms. I've been to a handful of events there and the only issue with bathrooms is during hockey intermissions. That's it. The entire rest of the time it's fine. And they're building more washrooms now anyway so that argument is about to be completely decimated during that teeny tiny window when it is a problem now.
    So a person paying hundreds of bucks to see a hockey game should have to MISS some of that game to go to the washroom?

    Lets roll it back. When this arena was built Edmontonians were promised it would be an efficient facility with no concessions or washroom lineups. The smooth function of washrooms in an arena is that they can service the capacity of that arena even at demand times. That's when people that are not incontinent go to the washroom, during intermission.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Why isn't it also a problem around Commonwealth then? And if it is, what hasn't something been done about it there? If people are leaving the arena with bladders so full they can't make it more than a block or two, then the problem is in the arena.
    There is maybe a dozen "events" at Commonwealth a year (9ish Esks games, and a handful of concerts). Rogers Place is an order of magnitude more.

  80. #80

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    6 events between now & Halloween. 5 Eskies games plus G'n'R.

    https://www.edmonton.ca/attractions_...um/events.aspx

    (Looks like more but two of the football games are duplicates)
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  81. #81
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    Yes, and there will be nearly zero between Halloween and next summer (whatever's left of the Esks schedule, basically). What's your point? My point was that it should be self evident why something that happens 200+ times a year is more of a concern than something that happens 12-15 times.

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    And further to that, virtually no one lingers in the area near Commonwealth after an event. They take transit home, hop in their vehicles, or head downtown or to Whyte for drinks. I'm sure there's some alleys being peed in around Commonwealth from time to time, but because of the frequency of events and the pattern of dispersion of event goers afterward, it's not nearly the problem it is downtown.

  83. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Yes, and there will be nearly zero between Halloween and next summer (whatever's left of the Esks schedule, basically). What's your point? My point was that it should be self evident why something that happens 200+ times a year is more of a concern than something that happens 12-15 times.
    I was agreeing with you & providing context. Sometimes a reply is not a rebuttal.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  84. #84

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    I dare say the majority of people using alleys and buildings sides of latrines does not occur in the immediate aftermath of events at Rogers Place, but later on in the night, after the bars close. Sure, some people right after the game may be inebriated enough to urinate in public, but the majority of that won't be that soused until they're waiting for a cab or stumbling home from the bar. How does drainage for the artificial turf for the puppies in the new park work? Could you put a strip of that over a long sewage grate with a few dividers backing onto walls in our more problematic alleys?

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    And further to that, virtually no one lingers in the area near Commonwealth after an event. They take transit home, hop in their vehicles, or head downtown or to Whyte for drinks. I'm sure there's some alleys being peed in around Commonwealth from time to time, but because of the frequency of events and the pattern of dispersion of event goers afterward, it's not nearly the problem it is downtown.
    And how many people are lingering after an event at the arena that lets out at 10 pm? Most people are just walking back to the nearest transit stop or their parking lot. Sure, there's a few that hit the bars for an after game drink but most people are heading home. Most people do their lingering before the games/concert. not after.

  86. #86

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    Temporary toilets are coming to Beaverhills House Park in the next week or so. This was requested on by Community and Public Services due to lack of facilities in and around that park.

    "City Council motion at the April 3rd, 2017 Community and Public Services Committee: That Administration continue to work with key partners to develop options for Public Washrooms in high demand areas, including pilot projects for temporary washroom facilities, and promote the use of facilities to the public a determination has been made to pilot a Porta Potty at Beaver Hills Park located at 105th Street and Jasper Avenue"

    If any major problems arrise with the porta potty being there it will be removed. This is only a temporary solution until report comes from Sustainable Development in early 2018 on more permanent solutions.
    www.decl.org

  87. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    When leaving Rogers there is no issue with bathrooms. I've been to a handful of events there and the only issue with bathrooms is during hockey intermissions. That's it. The entire rest of the time it's fine. And they're building more washrooms now anyway so that argument is about to be completely decimated during that teeny tiny window when it is a problem now.
    So a person paying hundreds of bucks to see a hockey game should have to MISS some of that game to go to the washroom?

    Lets roll it back. When this arena was built Edmontonians were promised it would be an efficient facility with no concessions or washroom lineups. The smooth function of washrooms in an arena is that they can service the capacity of that arena even at demand times. That's when people that are not incontinent go to the washroom, during intermission.
    Are you daft? THEY. ARE. BUILDING. MORE. WASHROOMS. Precisely so users WON'T have to miss anything. I'm not sure how you didn't understand that in the post quoted.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  88. #88

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    Johnny on the spots in Beaverhills House Park does not sound like an improvement for a park already in decline.

  89. #89

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    BHP is in decline? It seems the same as it has been since the towers went up on 104 St.

    That's not to say there's not room for improvement & plenty of low-hanging fruit, but it's hardly backsliding to the days when it actually had hills & was a nexus of ill repute.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  90. #90

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    The park has its challenges, and it's due for some repairs or upgrades, but certainly not the same level of crime it used to have before residents were living nearby. Now it's used all the time, gate came down a few years ago, mural went up, etc. Will continue to improve.
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  91. #91
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    It is MUCH busier than people think and much safer as well. Quite a popular lunch spot.
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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Johnny on the spots in Beaverhills House Park does not sound like an improvement for a park already in decline.
    Actually getting better and better (though either fix ore give up alright already on the rarely working water feature).
    ... gobsmacked

  93. #93

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    They're going to wait until the water feature in ADP inevitably goes tits up & then go for the package fix up on them both.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  94. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    When leaving Rogers there is no issue with bathrooms. I've been to a handful of events there and the only issue with bathrooms is during hockey intermissions. That's it. The entire rest of the time it's fine. And they're building more washrooms now anyway so that argument is about to be completely decimated during that teeny tiny window when it is a problem now.
    So a person paying hundreds of bucks to see a hockey game should have to MISS some of that game to go to the washroom?

    Lets roll it back. When this arena was built Edmontonians were promised it would be an efficient facility with no concessions or washroom lineups. The smooth function of washrooms in an arena is that they can service the capacity of that arena even at demand times. That's when people that are not incontinent go to the washroom, during intermission.
    Are you daft? THEY. ARE. BUILDING. MORE. WASHROOMS. Precisely so users WON'T have to miss anything. I'm not sure how you didn't understand that in the post quoted.
    You stated theres no difficulty with washrooms except during intermissions. With you emphasizing that it left an impression that you are minimizing the problem. At least how it could read.

    Additionally you state a fallacy that theres no trouble with washroom access after an event. Are you completely daft? Theres tons of bathroom demand at the end of an event. It would even be peak use lineups, thus people going outside and urinating. Grab a clue.

    Or would you postulate that people would rather **** outside than in an available washroom? That public urination outside post event is even an issue since the arena build is pretty crystal clear indication of massive demand for facilities post event. Your gibberish notwithstanding.
    Last edited by Replacement; 18-08-2017 at 04:56 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  95. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    BHP is in decline? It seems the same as it has been since the towers went up on 104 St.
    Since the ousting of the night market and the failure to maintain the water feature in the last couple/few years - yes, I would consider it in decline. Cecil Hotel days, no, but relative to the randy optimism of many here for BHP only a few years ago, yes.

  96. #96

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    Fair enough. I had more realistic aspirations for BHP, but the loss of the market & maintenance issues are still relevant. I have very little reason to go Downtown & appreciate the insight.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  97. #97
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    BHP is well used and nowhere near as bad as people think. It does need some love though and a bit of a refresh.
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    Back in 2003 during a Saturday afternoon, my friend's wedding party went to BHP for photo's. Imagine that! I remember thinking how much better it looked than in the mid 90s and before.
    Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

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