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Thread: Refugees / Illegal immigrants flooding in from US

  1. #1

    Default Refugees / Illegal immigrants flooding in from US

    So, because of our perceived weak immigration policies relative to the US, and a quirk in our border legislation, thousands of "economic" refugees are flooding into Canada.

    I get it, that if you are born in another country, maybe a poor country like Haiti, or a wealthy country (like I was, New Zealand), there can be a desire to go somewhere else where opportunities for you and your family are better. There are three ways to try to do that:

    1. You can work / educate yourself / marry to be able to immigrate legally. We see a lot of that coming into Canada - for example there were 50k from Philippines last year.
    2. You can try to "jump the line" and just go even though you don't qualify legally.
    3. If you are in a war zone or similar you may be accepted as a genuine refugee into one country or another, maybe into Canada.

    We can't just "open the doors" though and let absolutely the entire world into Canada. So to me, 1 and 3 are totally valid, but 2 shouldn't be allowed. The sad thing about 2. though, is that even if someone is denied, us in Canada may end up paying tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars per illegal line jumper for all the legal support they get taxpayer funded for the refugee claims. I don't think that's right / affordable or fair - the loophole needs to be closed ASAP.

    Under the 2002 Safe Country Agreement between the United States and Canada, migrants seeking asylum must apply to the first country they arrive in. If they were to go to a legal port of entry, they would be returned to the United States and told to apply there.

    But, in a quirk in the application of the law, if migrants arrive in Canada at a location other than a port of entry, such as Roxham Rd., they are allowed to request refugee status there.

    Many take buses to Plattsburgh, New York, about 32 kilometres south. Some fly there, and others take Amtrak. Sometimes taxis carry people right up to the border. Others are let off up the road and have to walk, pulling their luggage behind them.

    Used bus tickets litter the pavement, their points of origin mostly blurred by rain that fell on nights previous. One read “Jacksonville.”

    One Syrian family said they flew into New York City on tourist visas and then went to Plattsburgh, where they took a taxi to the border.
    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...to-canada.html

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    Yes, we should follow Australia's lead and send them all to Baffin Island like they do on Nauru Island. Also take out ads in the US and their respective home countries telling them of the dire consequences should they come here illegally.
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  3. #3

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    ^no, we should close the loophole with the US, and do what we do, with people who come through a US port of entry (pass them back to US) - it shouldn't be any different if you come in through Roxam road or Coutts Crossing border station.

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    ^You're assuming that the US would take them back which could be problematic. That's something that would probably have to be negotiated.
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    ^I think it already has been under the safe country agreement, Canada has just legislatively not applied the law in the manner that it could (quirk in application of the law)

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    Claiming asylum in Canada

    When a person makes a claim for refugee protection, an officer with the Canada Border Services Agency first interviews, fingerprints, photographs and runs a background check on the claimant.


    If eligible, the claimant’s file is referred to the Immigration and Refugee Board; if the application is ineligible, the person “may be removed from Canada to their country of citizenship,” a spokesperson with the CBSA said.


    If a rejected asylum seeker in Canada has no status in the U.S., they cannot return there.
    Global News
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    Default It's no fun being an illegal alien

    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Too many at once, we will be just like Germany soon.

    They were in the US temporarily. I love how they arrive with 4.5 6 children, sure we have lost of room in schools etc, healthcarm, no worries. Tater tot is an *****

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    ^No worries, just join the Sons of Odin and everything will be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    ^No worries, just join the Sons of Odin and everything will be fine.
    But Quebec cant handle them all , they just said! Omg, to have another opinion on this lefty board makes me feel so normal..

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    We may need that detainment center on Baffin Island...

    Canadian army builds 500 person border camp
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    Yeah, that worked so well in the past.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Too many at once, we will be just like Germany soon.

    They were in the US temporarily. I love how they arrive with 4.5 6 children, sure we have lost of room in schools etc, healthcarm, no worries. Tater tot is an *****
    I think there is a distinction that is lost by some on the different types of people coming here. If they are coming from a very war torn country like Syria, chances are they are refugees. If they are from a country like Haiti (very poor, not totally safe but definitely not really war torn) which is most of the recent influx in Quebec, they may more likely be economic migrants. The Haitians are currently leaving the US in droves because they were temporarily allowed to come to the US due to the earthquake there a number of years ago. The US extended how long they could stay there a number of times, but has now announced that will likely end in early 2018.

    I suppose they can come try their chances in Canada, but that does not mean all or even most will qualify as refugees. They may have to go back to Haiti in the end anyways.

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    Stop illegal aliens! Enforce the LAW!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Too many at once, we will be just like Germany soon.

    They were in the US temporarily. I love how they arrive with 4.5 6 children, sure we have lost of room in schools etc, healthcarm, no worries. Tater tot is an *****
    I think there is a distinction that is lost by some on the different types of people coming here. If they are coming from a very war torn country like Syria, chances are they are refugees. If they are from a country like Haiti (very poor, not totally safe but definitely not really war torn) which is most of the recent influx in Quebec, they may more likely be economic migrants. The Haitians are currently leaving the US in droves because they were temporarily allowed to come to the US due to the earthquake there a number of years ago. The US extended how long they could stay there a number of times, but has now announced that will likely end in early 2018.

    I suppose they can come try their chances in Canada, but that does not mean all or even most will qualify as refugees. They may have to go back to Haiti in the end anyways.
    They have terrible information out there for them. I just heard an interview, someone is trying to rectify that. I think its because they are arriving from the US, and not Haiti

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    Ship em all back!
    Stop illegal aliens! Enforce the LAW!

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Too many at once, we will be just like Germany soon.

    They were in the US temporarily. I love how they arrive with 4.5 6 children, sure we have lost of room in schools etc, healthcarm, no worries. Tater tot is an *****
    I think there is a distinction that is lost by some on the different types of people coming here. If they are coming from a very war torn country like Syria, chances are they are refugees. If they are from a country like Haiti (very poor, not totally safe but definitely not really war torn) which is most of the recent influx in Quebec, they may more likely be economic migrants. The Haitians are currently leaving the US in droves because they were temporarily allowed to come to the US due to the earthquake there a number of years ago. The US extended how long they could stay there a number of times, but has now announced that will likely end in early 2018.

    I suppose they can come try their chances in Canada, but that does not mean all or even most will qualify as refugees. They may have to go back to Haiti in the end anyways.
    They have terrible information out there for them. I just heard an interview, someone is trying to rectify that. I think its because they are arriving from the US, and not Haiti
    They are coming from the US, but they are of Haitian origin.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I suppose they can come try their chances in Canada, but that does not mean all or even most will qualify as refugees. They may have to go back to Haiti in the end anyways.
    They may, but how much taxpayer dollars will go into legal representation for them, only then for them to go back to the US, versus if they had gone through a regular border crossing? The law clearly needs a fix quick smart, otherwise this will get very ugly and very expensive very soon. If Trudeau doesn't act, it will generate a backlash, which would be unfortunate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Ship em all back!
    Tent city going up! Oh dear...smh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Too many at once, we will be just like Germany soon.

    They were in the US temporarily. I love how they arrive with 4.5 6 children, sure we have lost of room in schools etc, healthcarm, no worries. Tater tot is an *****
    I think there is a distinction that is lost by some on the different types of people coming here. If they are coming from a very war torn country like Syria, chances are they are refugees. If they are from a country like Haiti (very poor, not totally safe but definitely not really war torn) which is most of the recent influx in Quebec, they may more likely be economic migrants. The Haitians are currently leaving the US in droves because they were temporarily allowed to come to the US due to the earthquake there a number of years ago. The US extended how long they could stay there a number of times, but has now announced that will likely end in early 2018.

    I suppose they can come try their chances in Canada, but that does not mean all or even most will qualify as refugees. They may have to go back to Haiti in the end anyways.
    They have terrible information out there for them. I just heard an interview, someone is trying to rectify that. I think its because they are arriving from the US, and not Haiti
    They are coming from the US, but they are of Haitian origin.
    Why are you still an illegal having lived in the US for 17 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I suppose they can come try their chances in Canada, but that does not mean all or even most will qualify as refugees. They may have to go back to Haiti in the end anyways.
    They may, but how much taxpayer dollars will go into legal representation for them, only then for them to go back to the US, versus if they had gone through a regular border crossing? The law clearly needs a fix quick smart, otherwise this will get very ugly and very expensive very soon. If Trudeau doesn't act, it will generate a backlash, which would be unfortunate.
    Trudeau is far too busy wiping out, somewhere in BC.

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    And Trump is taking 17 days off so what's your point?
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    Would-be asylum-seekers need to understand it isn’t easy to get refugee status in Canada, Quebec’s premier said Saturday.

    Philippe Couillard said it’s important that anyone who is considering joining the surge of people who have been crossing
    There have been reports that many of those arriving in recent weeks were motivated by false rumours that getting into Canada would be easy.

    Couillard said he was ready to go to the media to set the record straight.the United States border into Canada in recent
    weeks know what they’re facing
    Toronto Star
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    Able bodied men running awY like cowards! Stay in your own country and fight!

    You mean to tell me if Canada was invaded everyone would run away with tails between their legs like cowards? We would have lost WW 2 if we acted like these cowards. **** George Soros and his globalist agenda, SEND THEM BACK!
    Stop illegal aliens! Enforce the LAW!

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    I thought they had sanctuary cities? Good old Montreal, if it means more money from us, because we are the government, they'll take asylum seekers, put up ratty tent cities, all because tater tot sends out a tweet, making himself look good.. Idiots!

  26. #26

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    I hope the government doesn't grant any special favors to illegals coming into Canada. After all, these "asylum seekers" are screwing over and trying to butt in line ahead of all the thousands of people doing their due diligence to go through through the proper process to immigrate to Canada legally.

  27. #27

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    Come back to the forum and our resident rightwing nut zealot has a thread ranting about immigrants. Which is odd considering he's an immigrant. Different kind I guess...
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    ^No worries, just join the Sons of Odin and everything will be fine.
    lol of the thread. Its apt commentary in response to this thread and OP.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Come back to the forum and our resident rightwing nut zealot has a thread ranting about immigrants. Which is odd considering he's an immigrant. Different kind I guess...

    He is ranting about ILLEGAL ALIENS, not immigrants.

    Huge difference, and nothing odd about it at all. Large numbers of people illegally entering the country should be a major concern for any nation.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Come back to the forum and our resident rightwing nut zealot has a thread ranting about immigrants. Which is odd considering he's an immigrant. Different kind I guess...

    He is ranting about ILLEGAL ALIENS, not immigrants.

    Huge difference, and nothing odd about it at all. Large numbers of people illegally entering the country should be a major concern for any nation.
    The OP specifically cites "weak" immigration policy and even states that. The rant is not contained to one form of entering the country. Plus the OP has an established tradition here as a right wingnut with extremist views albeit from where you sit the views may not seem as extreme to you.
    Last edited by Replacement; 14-08-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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    The OP cites support for legitimate immigrants and support for genuine refugees from war zones and similar places.
    He cites the "perception" of weak immigration policies.
    So, a person calls for enforcing our generous immigration system and our world leading humanitarian refugee policies and you label him a "rightwing nut zealot".
    Wow.

  32. #32

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    You obviously don't read many of his posts. Moahunter is an off the rails right wingnut which is pretty commonly acknowledged by the readership here. My calling him a rightwingnut was not in isolation of this one thread but on his established record here...wow..

    I'm not one iota off in my estimation of the poster.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You obviously don't read many of his posts. Moahunter is an off the rails right wingnut which is pretty commonly acknowledged by the readership here. My calling him a rightwingnut was not in isolation of this one thread but on his established record here...wow..

    I'm not one iota off in my estimation of the poster.
    I think it's called: "shooting the messenger".

    ...or "holding a grudge".

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    http://globalnews.ca/news/3671882/qu...d-pornography/

    Multiple refugee claimants have been found in possession of child pornography at or near the Quebec border crossing where an influx of hundreds of asylum seekers crossing from New York state has led the Canadian government to set up a border camp, Global News has learned.

    Doesn't that sound like something we need more of! Sigh...

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You obviously don't read many of his posts. Moahunter is an off the rails right wingnut which is pretty commonly acknowledged by the readership here. My calling him a rightwingnut was not in isolation of this one thread but on his established record here...wow..

    I'm not one iota off in my estimation of the poster.
    What part of the original post did you disagree with? Perhaps my view that we should allow refugees and legitimate immigration applicants? Was that what got you upset / you considered a rant? Or did you just decide, because I posted it, it must be wrong, without taking the time to try to understand it? I find it interesting that anyone who doesn't have the view that we should completely eliminate the border and let anyone wander over it and give sancturary / legal aid on taxpayer dime, is considered a right wingnut.
    Last edited by moahunter; 16-08-2017 at 10:47 AM.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You obviously don't read many of his posts. Moahunter is an off the rails right wingnut which is pretty commonly acknowledged by the readership here. My calling him a rightwingnut was not in isolation of this one thread but on his established record here...wow..

    I'm not one iota off in my estimation of the poster.
    What part of the original post did you disagree with? Perhaps my view that we should allow refugees and legitimate immigration applicants? Was that what got you upset / you considered a rant? Or did you just decide, because I posted it, it must be wrong, without taking the time to try to understand it? I find it interesting that anyone who doesn't have the view that we should completely eliminate the border and let anyone wander over it and give sancturary / legal aid on taxpayer dime, is considered a right wingnut.
    Its well established that you are a right wing nut. Not just on the basis of this thread.

    I understand the comment and the expressed concern and that you posted it.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You obviously don't read many of his posts. Moahunter is an off the rails right wingnut which is pretty commonly acknowledged by the readership here. My calling him a rightwingnut was not in isolation of this one thread but on his established record here...wow..

    I'm not one iota off in my estimation of the poster.
    What part of the original post did you disagree with? Perhaps my view that we should allow refugees and legitimate immigration applicants? Was that what got you upset / you considered a rant? Or did you just decide, because I posted it, it must be wrong, without taking the time to try to understand it? I find it interesting that anyone who doesn't have the view that we should completely eliminate the border and let anyone wander over it and give sancturary / legal aid on taxpayer dime, is considered a right wingnut.
    Its well established that you are a right wing nut. Not just on the basis of this thread.

    I understand the comment and the expressed concern and that you posted it.
    No, you attacked the poster not the post in contravention to the forum rules - its pretty immature, but so be it, if you can't argue on the issues, the name throwing reflects a lot more on you than it does on me. I am completely fine with legal immigration, but unlike you, I draw the line at special rules for people who sneak across the border at a road instead of a border crossing.
    Last edited by moahunter; 16-08-2017 at 11:41 AM.

  38. #38

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    You have the audacity to call out other posters for attack? Haha, the mendacity..

    You've displayed countless times you are incapable of having a discussion. You will be wrong all day, ignore that which is refuted, move goalposts, and then pack your bag and go post the same drivel in another thread that you start. This is your mission here.

    So you still want me to rebuke your points? Why, you don't discuss them when people do.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Some concerns:

    if these illegals feel they can enter a country without following laws/proper procedures/protocols, then why would they follow any of our laws once inside our country? they have already demonstrated the propensity to break any they don't like!

    why house and feed them, YET neglect our own homeless, elderly, vets, Etc?

    Where are all these illegals going to stay in the winter? In army barracks? So we house illegals aliens but not our own homeless?

    what kind of background checks are in place for these illegals other than nothing?

    dieaease checks? Some of them are bringing in diseases and child porn! They are criminals! Don't need those undesirables here! NO!

    how are they going to get a job?

    is this not a SLAP IN THE FACE TO ALL IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS? You know, legally?
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 21-08-2017 at 12:15 PM.
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    http://globalnews.ca/news/3673174/re...bec-army-poll/

    But, according to a new Ipsos poll, 62 per cent of respondents don’t think the Trudeau government has a “solid plan” to respond to the influx of refugees.

    Watch out tater tot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Some concerns:

    if these illegals feel they can enter a country without following laws/proper procedures/protocols, then why would they follow any of our laws once inside our country? they have already demonstrated the propensity to break any they don't like!

    why house and feed them, YET neglect our own homeless, elderly, vets, Etc?

    Where are all these illegals going to stay in the winter? In army barracks? So we house illegals aliens but not our own homeless?

    what kind of background checks are in place for these illegals other than nothing?

    dieaease checks? Some of them are bringing in diseases and child porn! They are criminals! Don't need those undesirables here! NO!

    how are they going to get a job?

    is this not a SLAP IN THE FACE TO ALL IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS? You know, legally?
    Of course its a slap in the face, they are coming from the US, many with criminal records! but tater tot says everyone is welcome, he is so out of touch in his ivory tower, and a lot like his old man ( shudder)

  42. #42

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    Edmonton embraces idea of 'sanctuary city' for undocumented immigrants

    City councilors on Monday embraced a new effort to let undocumented immigrants — or those with uncertain immigration status — access city services without fear of deportation.
    Community agencies estimate Edmonton has 10,000 to 25,000 undocumented immigrants, temporary foreign workers whose papers have lapsed or others who try to stay in the country for family reasons with lapsed visas.
    These immigrants face a precarious existence – no health care coverage, no legal ability to work and often no proof of address, since they have unstable or informal living situations, sometimes in places of worship. They’re afraid of giving any personal information to government agencies and often refuse to go to police for fear it will lead to their deportation.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ted-immigrants


    If you read some of the comments after this Journal article 95% of the respondents are against this for various reasons. Personal the word 'illegal' should be a dead give away as to the status of these undocumented people.
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    So city council is debating whether Edmonton should harbor criminals? Unreal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    So city council is debating whether Edmonton should harbor criminals? Unreal.
    They need to get rid of this mayor..what an *****!!

  45. #45

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    The C of E cant get a handle on the homeless as it is, the food bank is always running short, social services are stretched in all areas. Now the C of E wants to make it's own laws to assist people in breaking the law. It fails me how they will run rough shot over federal immigration laws but then again it also fails me that the federal government of this day will let them do it.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  46. #46

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    The most depressing think is bean pole is probably getting re-elected. So another term of him gladhanding everything. I think the city tries to do too much, which only costs us in countless ways.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Every council person in favor of this horse**** needs to get VOTED OUT THIS FALL!
    Stop illegal aliens! Enforce the LAW!

  48. #48

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    ^Yeah well Don 'The Lawman' will not be getting my vote. If I'm still out of town on holiday I am not even going to put myself out to go to the advance polls either. That for me is huge if it pans out that way as I have only missed one other vote for civic/provincial/federal elections due to illness. Hopefully more mayoral candidates step forward before civic election day or we are screwed.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    It fails me how they will run rough shot over federal immigration laws but then again it also fails me that the federal government of this day will let them do it.
    The enforcement of our Federal laws are a major part of the reason Canada became such a safe and prosperous country in the world to live in the first place. Whether criminal law hurts a certain person's feelings or not should never be a consideration for enforcing it.

    Canada has one of the best (if not THE best) record for enforcing illegal human trafficking in the entire world. I fear that choosing to defy Federal laws will encourage human traffickers to take advantage of it. And that won't be good for Canada or Edmonton if international organized crime groups can grow human trafficking here (as it is growing in most places in the world).

  50. #50

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    ^I'm not necessarily talking about illegal human trafficking I'm talking about people who have enough money to fly here (or however they arrive) and have visa's etc. who know at some point that their visa has ran out but they then decide to stay. I agree the TFW program is a mess. My take is that if a person came on a TFW visa and it has been renewed 3, 4 times there should be a mechanism in place for them to stay as landed immigrants before they go on to be Canadian citizens (if they want). The people who came here on holiday visa's, student visa's or in a way that hid their real intent of staying should be sent packing and re-apply through the regular channels. The reason Canada became a safe and prosperous country is that immigration and refugee populations were closely checked and monitored. Different levels of governments could get a grip of how the population was growing and where extra money should be spent. Loss track of that and departments might as well not bother having budget limitations. Then that problem will fall on the taxpayers shoulders.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I'm not necessarily talking about illegal human trafficking I'm talking about people who have enough money to fly here (or however they arrive) and have visa's etc. who know at some point that their visa has ran out but they then decide to stay. I agree the TFW program is a mess. My take is that if a person came on a TFW visa and it has been renewed 3, 4 times there should be a mechanism in place for them to stay as landed immigrants before they go on to be Canadian citizens (if they want). The people who came here on holiday visa's, student visa's or in a way that hid their real intent of staying should be sent packing and re-apply through the regular channels. The reason Canada became a safe and prosperous country is that immigration and refugee populations were closely checked and monitored. Different levels of governments could get a grip of how the population was growing and where extra money should be spent. Loss track of that and departments might as well not bother having budget limitations. Then that problem will fall on the taxpayers shoulders.
    I suspect the "temporary" part was put in as a political response to perceived concerns, but the basic concept that people can be brought in and disposed of at the convenience of a host country is problematic, both on a moral and and now apparently on practical level.

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