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Thread: Secret downtown beach can be a game-changer for Edmonton

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    Default Secret downtown beach can be a game-changer for Edmonton

    Secret downtown beach can be a game-changer for Edmonton
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...r-for-edmonton

    Edmonton has a secret downtown beach that is so spacious and lovely it should become a major attraction and a game-changer for the city.

    For little cost, there could be a permanent downtown beach with a spectacular postcard view of the downtown, close to the new Valley Line LRT station on one side and to Louise McKinney Riverfront Park and the new funicular on the other.
    The beach appeared as if out of nowhere. It came as an unintended consequence of the new Tawatina LRT bridge construction over the river.

    Massive rock berms had been constructed on either side of the river to allow for the construction of the bridge’s two piers. As water resources engineer Darren Shepherd of SG1 Water Consulting Ltd. explains it, earlier this summer flow in the river was relatively high so lots of silt and sand was being transported downstream. The construction berm on the south side of the river resulted in slower-moving water and allowed the sediment carried by the water to deposit on the river bed. A large volume of sand and silt settled over roughly one-kilometre-long strip, about 25 metres wide, on the south side of the bank.
    Once the rock-fill berms are removed following completion of bridge construction, the beach will likely become less prominent or usable, said Shepherd, whose company has been involved with designing and building a whitewater boating facility on the Bow River in Calgary.

    But there are ways to try to keep the beach, Shepherd said. The cost of hauling the rocks off the construction site could instead be put toward moving them slightly downstream from the new bridge and strategically placing them so that a beach area is maintained. This could be done without impacting the new bridge structure.

    The new rock feature need not jut out so far into the river channel as the construction berm, Shepherd said, but enough to slow the water so that a somewhat smaller beach remains. “You can train the river to maintain that beach … It’s definitely feasible.”
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^
    Cool, we should definitely make this permanent, if possible! It would be just down the river from the Edmonton Queen (if the poor fellow who bought it can ever get his permits through), and the new funicular means this could be readily accessible from downtown.

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    YEESSSSSSS!!!! I took my dog for a swim across the river and over the bridge from Hawrelak park when it was 30+ degrees a few weeks ago and was shocked at how crystal clear the water was. The silt was so fine that when you dried off you had this fine dust on the skin and the dogs hair became super soft, but needed a quick bath once we got home. I am 100% in favour of the city pursuing something like this. On a hot day, nothing beats real water/beach activities. This would be an amazing addition to central Edmonton. The only thing I would hope to see is some decent infrastructure to make it usable, like a bathroom and change areas with a few showers to rinse the silt off when finished. Otherwise I would love to see this happen as soon as construction of the LRT bridge is finished.
    Last edited by etownboarder; 18-08-2017 at 10:57 AM.

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    Heard this beach was a popular destination during Folk Fest

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    I'll never understand the obsession some people have with getting a beach in the river valley. I just don't see how it fits the general environment of the valley, and indeed Edmonton generally. It's like putting a ski hill in Tijuana.

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    ^
    Several lakes within driving distance of Edmonton have beaches. Not all of us have cars, and would appreciate a beach accessible in the city, particularly by transit. If Paris can have beaches along the river, why can't we?

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    ^^
    It gives many people (locals and visitors alike) a good reason to visit the river valley, especially families. Not everyone is a jogger, hiker or cyclist. And this is a far better idea than the ridiculous "sand park" that they were planning for LMP.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    There are 3 really nice areas/beaches/sediment deposits to be on the river during the summer.

    This one, across from hawrelak and big island.
    www.decl.org

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    ^ There's a few more beaches actually. One right near the Fort Edmonton footbridge (just a bit south - but its really large, and gets larger every year... Tons of people are now using it to do beach stuff on, or fish from.)

    Another one that's kinda seasonal is the east of the Terwillegar footbridge, but this one is starting to grow in size too...

    The first one near the ft edm footbridge is really something, at least for a river beach.

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    I'll second that Meds - and it's getting ever more popular.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Mind you, these probably come and go with the river levels. The article has a solution for the one near the new LRT bridge.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    I'll never understand the obsession some people have with getting a beach in the river valley. I just don't see how it fits the general environment of the valley, and indeed Edmonton generally. It's like putting a ski hill in Tijuana.
    You realize that 100 years ago people were swimming in the river all summer long.

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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    I'll never understand the obsession some people have with getting a beach in the river valley. I just don't see how it fits the general environment of the valley, and indeed Edmonton generally. It's like putting a ski hill in Tijuana.
    I don't really either. But its not just here. For some reason there is a present day amplified fascination with beaches of any sort. On a Recent Trip to Jasper I was amazed to see so many cars pulled over by people taking a dip in Lake Abraham. we're talking literally 100's of cars stopping on the highway where previously hardly anybody had ever stopped except to gawk at Rocky Mountain Sheep or goats.

    But at least that is a pristine NP environment the people are bathing in. What really is the attraction of beaching, even bathing (shudder) in a river with multiple discharges to it and that people wouldn't eat fish from?

    That aside beaches do fit river environments, and are often natural occurrences, just that I don't follow the fascination for them. Plus that we already have plenty of them. The Whitemud creek entering the North Sask being among the largest. The article speaks as if river front beaches are not commonplace here, which they are. There is nothing at all unique about the beach sited in the article.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    But at least that is a pristine NP environment the people are bathing in.


    None of Lake Abraham resides in a national park. The closest part of Lake Abraham is 25 KM from the park gates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    What really is the attraction of beaching, even bathing (shudder) in a river with multiple discharges to it and that people wouldn't eat fish from?


    Fish are safe to eat from the NS, as far as I know. There's recommendations to only eat it once a week and avoid whole fish, but otherwise it's safe. And it's perfectly safe to swim in the river. Especially at this time of year now that the snow melt has finished and the flow has slowed, the water is very clear. Every natural body of water, whether it be a lake, river, or ocean, has human and animal discharges/waste flowing in to it. The entire Caribbean is basically one giant toilet because of how much sewage is dumped in to it and it's reasonably isolated from the Atlantic. Yet hundreds of millions of people swim in it all the time. All of Alberta's recreational lakes are surrounded by development and numerous septic fields, a fair portion of which are probably malfunctioning at any one time. Yet again, millions of people go swimming in them on a regular basis.

    As far as why there is such a human propensity to enjoy beaches and being near water, scientists have been studying that phenomenon for a long time. Ultimately the hypothesis is that humans are naturally drawn to such environments because as **** sapiens evolved and spread around the world, maritime environments were often the most productive and fertile, and also yielded easy long distance travel walking along shores or travelling across water. Kind of a chicken and egg thing. If **** sapiens weren't drawn to productive maritime environments, the species may not have been as successful or able to spread as quickly as it did. I don't think there's any way to actually "prove" the hypothesis, but it makes sense to me anyways.

    edit: seriously, I can't even write h o m o sapiens? This word filter is incredibly idiotic.

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    Sorry, my bad. Not sure why I called it Abraham lake. I mean the lake adjacent to Talbot Lake, which is actually the Athabasca River, which has been called many things over the years and is currently known as "Jasper lake".

    Good reply though Marcel. This kind of rebuttal is appreciated. I comprehend the human draw to water, and the enjoyment of our river valley, but the North Saskatchewan, jmo, is a pretty standard and unspectacular plains river. About the most impressive thing that can be stated about it is that its carved out pretty steep and wide banks which has shaped our cities history and present day usage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Mind you, these probably come and go with the river levels. The article has a solution for the one near the new LRT bridge.
    The ones I've mentioned have been around for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Mind you, these probably come and go with the river levels. The article has a solution for the one near the new LRT bridge.
    The ones I've mentioned have been around for years.
    Yep. Many are essentially large sandbars with some connections to the shoreline. People have been frolicking with their dogs to the one adjacent to the Hawreluk park bridge (next to a dog run area) for decades.

    How some little sandbar DT is news or unique at all is anybodies guess. Slow news day and all.

    The North Sask carries significant silt, sand, mud, which gets deposited somewhere. With more of it deposited where sandbars exist. Indeed just down river of the LRT bridge a large sandbar has existed there for decades and probably as long or longer as the previous pedestrian bridge. It helps create a still in the river there where other sediment gets deposited. This being what rivers inevitably do.

    The article makes it sound like some sand being deposited is magical.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    I'll never understand the obsession some people have with getting a beach in the river valley. I just don't see how it fits the general environment of the valley, and indeed Edmonton generally. It's like putting a ski hill in Tijuana.
    I don't really either. But its not just here. For some reason there is a present day amplified fascination with beaches of any sort. On a Recent Trip to Jasper I was amazed to see so many cars pulled over by people taking a dip in Lake Abraham. we're talking literally 100's of cars stopping on the highway where previously hardly anybody had ever stopped except to gawk at Rocky Mountain Sheep or goats.

    But at least that is a pristine NP environment the people are bathing in. What really is the attraction of beaching, even bathing (shudder) in a river with multiple discharges to it and that people wouldn't eat fish from?

    That aside beaches do fit river environments, and are often natural occurrences, just that I don't follow the fascination for them. Plus that we already have plenty of them. The Whitemud creek entering the North Sask being among the largest. The article speaks as if river front beaches are not commonplace here, which they are. There is nothing at all unique about the beach sited in the article.
    Well, if by "beach", we simply mean a place where people can go for a swim in the nearby body of water, I guess that's cool. But I'm picturing that it's gonna be a venue for lying around in your swimsuit, suntanning, etc. Which I think would be kind of ridiculous in the river valley.

    Though I guess people already suntan etc in the valley, so(the argument would go) why not just set up one place with lots of sand where they can do that and go for a swim? I guess it's the combination of all those things together that just strikes me as kind of nauseating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Mind you, these probably come and go with the river levels. The article has a solution for the one near the new LRT bridge.
    The ones I've mentioned have been around for years.
    Yep. Many are essentially large sandbars with some connections to the shoreline. People have been frolicking with their dogs to the one adjacent to the Hawreluk park bridge (next to a dog run area) for decades.

    How some little sandbar DT is news or unique at all is anybodies guess. Slow news day and all.

    The North Sask carries significant silt, sand, mud, which gets deposited somewhere. With more of it deposited where sandbars exist. Indeed just down river of the LRT bridge a large sandbar has existed there for decades and probably as long or longer as the previous pedestrian bridge. It helps create a still in the river there where other sediment gets deposited. This being what rivers inevitably do.

    The article makes it sound like some sand being deposited is magical.
    Well, if I'm reading the article correctly, the idea is for the city to actually intervene in the natural environment to protect the sand deposits(ie. "taming the river" and all that).

    But, if this is going to be a formally designated beach, does that mean the city has to hire lifeguards? Not that I think that would be cost-prohibitive, I'm just wondering how much of an official thing this is gonna be.

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    If one adds that the "beach" in question is on the Southside of the bank, i.e., the shade side it isn't even a particularly great sun location.

    Its a nothing story. Postmedia has just random news. Somebody maybe called it in and said "hey look theres a beach here" and the EJ investigated. That many EJ scribes attend the nearby Folk Festival and found out about it first hand is another possible reason why this is seeing print.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    If one adds that the "beach" in question is on the Southside of the bank, i.e., the shade side it isn't even a particularly great sun location.

    Its a nothing story. Postmedia has just random news. Somebody maybe called it in and said "hey look theres a beach here" and the EJ investigated. That many EJ scribes attend the nearby Folk Festival and found out about it first hand is another possible reason why this is seeing print.
    By "the shade side", do you mean the side with more trees? My worry would be that a guy like Staples wants to cut down all the trees in order to expand the beach. He's apparently got some grand visions for all this...

    "If it works and is not too costly, maybe there’ll be beaches up and down the river one day."

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    Given Edmontons Northern latitude solar radiation of course comes from the South and habitats here are greatly effected. So that a River Valley that is deep has almost entirely sundrenched northbank and far less sun on Southbank. Everything about those habitats is different. The particular location of the beach by the footbridge is at a section where the river runs pretty much East West and LMP on North bank is sun drenched(as much as 18hrs of sun/day at peak) whereas the Southbank there is largely in tree and cliff shade. So that the beach in question would be seeing anywhere from zero to say 8hrs of sun depending on time of year. In Spring and Fall hardly any sun in that location due to the incident angle of solar radiation encountered at this latitude.

    Really this would be one of the worst locations anywhere in the River Valley for a beach setting. This time of year it might be nice. But not usually.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-08-2017 at 03:29 PM.
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    Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, going by what you say, that would be a lousy place for a beach.

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    Probably one of the most accessible locations with a large parking lot and park access, shallow bank, south exposure, very shallow bays that filled with sand (currents need to be checked), upstream from most sewage and storm outfalls, etc., would be Sir Wilfrid Laurier Park between the Zoo and the Whitemud bridge
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    Happened to check the "beach" out today while testing out my new bike. It didn't strike me as particularly "beachy", in all honesty. It's just a kilometer or so long sand bar. But fairly coarse/rocky sand, lots of pebbles/rocks, driftwood etc. Parts of it are more swampy/muddy than sandy. It's quite long, but as has been mentioned, there's lots of other similar ones throughout the city.

    That being said, there was a couple dozen people down there checking it out.

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    A swiftly moving river is no place for public beaches. I personally become very nervous when going near the river with my sonny boy. All we need is for our children to be floating towards saskatchewan in cheap plastic toys and/or just plain outrightly getting sucked into death. Same goes for folks of all ages. How about more man made lakes with beaches that are not private. A dozen summerside style PUBLIC beaches in the area would be great but beach play areas along a dangerous and deadly river, no way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Happened to check the "beach" out today while testing out my new bike. It didn't strike me as particularly "beachy", in all honesty. It's just a kilometer or so long sand bar. But fairly coarse/rocky sand, lots of pebbles/rocks, driftwood etc. Parts of it are more swampy/muddy than sandy. It's quite long, but as has been mentioned, there's lots of other similar ones throughout the city.

    That being said, there was a couple dozen people down there checking it out.
    That last bit is the point though - until now, I think many people are unaware of the sandbars or of the thought of turning one into a more permanent beach. Now that conversation has started.

    But as the Global story in post #13 says, putting a permanent small berm on the river requires federal approval.
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 20-08-2017 at 10:01 AM.
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    To have it back away from the river is the best idea. Near the Valley Zoo would be another good location. They have that huge parking lot plus it is already a destination. Tourists too could go to the zoo and to the beach after. A lot of places that they could do it, how about several beaches. Just bringing in some sand doesn't have to be overly complicated.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 20-08-2017 at 11:07 AM.

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    And then we can redirect Metro LRT from Health Sciences to cross the river with a stop somewhere down there. Yes please before continuing on to WEM.

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    And...with a walkway over to Fort Edmonton we would have a for real Ft. Edmonton/Zoo station. A short route to WEM that way too but that ship has sailed through Glenora

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    We tried to get a beach along the river going 10 years ago and city administration said it would cost to much and be too risky to pursue. Fast forward to today, we have another push for a beach going where the beach has been already made at no cost to the city. I hope we have more intelligent and open minded people working within city administration.
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    I remember this was thrown about even just a few years ago:
    http://globalnews.ca/news/634144/cit...town-edmonton/

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    I guess this 'faux beach' will be a giant litter box for three months for the feral cats roaming around the river valley area. How many actual days of use will the public get out of it. It's no good on windy days as sand in sandwiches is awful. The C of E should equip their existing parks with more amenities rather than spend on trying to recreate St. Tropez North in Edmonton.
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    City will look into maintaining 'secret' beach beyond bridge construction
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...e-construction

    The possibility of keeping a secret beach — that’s not much of a secret anymore — will be discussed at city council Tuesday.

    Coun. Ben Henderson said he will bring forward an inquiry on what will be necessary to operate the beach, including permits and provincial and federal requirements, because it is outside municipal jurisdiction.

    “We’ve been talking about wanting this kind of facility in the city for a long time and here’s one that just magically appeared,” Henderson said. “Why would we not explore whether or not we’d hold onto it?”

    The beach, along the south side of the North Saskatchewan River, unexpectedly formed as a result of berms built for construction of the new Tawatina LRT bridge across the river.

    Once the berms come out following construction, the beach would likely disappear, water resources engineer Darren Shepherd of SG1 Water Consulting Ltd. told the Journal Aug. 16. The city is looking into the possibility of maintaining the one-kilometre-long strip, about 25 metres wide, below Cloverdale, beyond the bridge construction.

    “It’s going to take some digging,” Mayor Don Iveson said. “If there’s a way we can keep it and comply with the federal and provincial rules, then I’m very open to that.”
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    A photo I took from Saskatoon of their Downtown beach.


    http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps6xbdrzpr.jpg
    www.decl.org

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    Not ironically the Saskatoon administration takes a far more sensible view of the use of these beaches (essentially sandbars) and seeks to discourage the use or development of these pop up beaches. Which in Saskatoons case occur sporadically when the river is low.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...erns-1.3106876

    http://thesheaf.com/2015/07/09/spoil...-in-saskatoon/


    But in Edmonton city council is going to look at this and "why shouldn't we have a public beach and probably fund studies and consider reinventing the wheel on what similar municipalities have understood is simply a bad idea.
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    Strange that you post those articles from 2 years ago, and don't post this one from 2 weeks ago: http://www.ckom.com/2017/08/01/17321/

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    Honestly I hadn't been familiar with the very latest question by the mayor, (which is very recent) and it didn't show up in my google results. It does imo though feature more and more in present day populist poltics that continually try to reinvent the wheel on such things instead of running a city.

    My own take is neither Saskatoon or Edmonton should be spending a lot of time debating public beaches on sandbars on dangerous to swim bodies of water.

    I do think that pragmatically a civic position on this has historically been established and that it is foolish to encourage or aid the use of the same beaches or sandbars. A cities position, officially, should oppose such use. Even have bylaws against it. As Saskatoon has had.

    Finally, the Mayor is evoking a basic fallacy. That exposure to the river at water level will increase learning about the river and decrease threat of the river. Unfortunately this just isn't the case. Providing increased access to hazards increases the likelihood of incidents at those hazards. The mayor is basically arguing against roped off areas.
    Last edited by Replacement; 24-08-2017 at 10:51 AM.
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    The beach is excellent.
    The use has been incredible. Lots of families out using it, kids in the water with parents.
    Dragon boats, kayaks, canoes and a beach full of people having a great time.
    It was like a different City the way people were out interacting with the river.

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    Bingo. One of the constant gripes about Edmonton is the lack of a beach/summer spot...
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    https://app.box.com/shared/static/36...7qlv6ympt2.jpg
    Mine

    Checked it out today. Amazed how nice the sand is. They definitely need to install some stairs, kudos to whoever installed the rope.

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    Please take advantage of the opportunity to build a weir under the bridge. The beach can be located where where Hawrelack Park is. A weir will guarantee consistent water levels and slow down the current.
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    Years ago after playing several games of Tennis at Kinsmen Park we used to go into the Sask. for a cooling swim. This became quite a popular practice but the city put an end to it quoting polluted water from small towns upstream which disposed of their untreated sewage directly into the river. I don't recall any proclamation in later years stating that the water is now safe so I would caution that one might find a bit more than Silvery Sand on any Beach, natural or otherwise.

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    Good grief, can we please get past the environmental fear mongering.
    Last edited by ThomasH; 27-08-2017 at 01:00 PM.
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    Where and why do you see mongering?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post

    https://app.box.com/shared/static/36...7qlv6ympt2.jpg
    Mine

    Checked it out today. Amazed how nice the sand is. They definitely need to install some stairs, kudos to whoever installed the rope.
    "Install some stairs" Are you kidding? This is a temporary sandbar that could disappear as quick as it came or that could easily be disconnected from land as river level rises. Now we're talking about building stairs to it? As to the rope I can just imagine somebody tied a rope to a tree or something to make it easier for people to get up or down but which would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  48. #48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Good grief, can we please get past the environmental fear mongering.
    The river can contain any number of parasites, pollutants, sewage etc that would make it a less than ideal swimming or wading setting. To add to that its dangerous to swim in that body of water. No fear mongering required.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  49. #49
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    I'm sure AHS could go and inspect the water. On the bright side, it's probably safer than some of the lakes affected by the blue-green algae.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  50. #50

    Default

    Earlier in the thread I noted that Epcor is embarking on a landmark upstream sampling study to test waters and get more indication of localized pollutants, river quality monitoring etc. It will of course cost Millions and Epcor bills will of course rise again and interestingly the individual that lobbied for this sampling is an Epcor "watershed expert" that is part of a club that swims in the river regularly. She even stated the monitoring is so people could swim more safely in the river. Without even acknowledging how her involvement could be easily viewed as vested interest.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  51. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Good grief, can we please get past the environmental fear mongering.
    The river can contain any number of parasites, pollutants, sewage etc that would make it a less than ideal swimming or wading setting. To add to that its dangerous to swim in that body of water. No fear mongering required.
    Every single body of water has parasites, pollutants and sewage etc. It is a pathetic excuse to not enjoy life; and yes, you are fear mongering.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  52. #52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Good grief, can we please get past the environmental fear mongering.
    The river can contain any number of parasites, pollutants, sewage etc that would make it a less than ideal swimming or wading setting. To add to that its dangerous to swim in that body of water. No fear mongering required.
    Every single body of water has parasites, pollutants and sewage etc. It is a pathetic excuse to not enjoy life; and yes, you are fear mongering.
    I enjoy live fine without contracting beaver fever, suffering from toxins, or contracting some disease or drowning.

    Any public notice on any body of water must strike you as some sort of nanny state mongering.

    The NS, mainly due to drowning possibility is a high risk body of water. As many rivers are. No fear mongering involved.

    More the case its that something that was always understood to be dangerous is now being transformed conceptually into "it isn't so bad" rewriting. Inherent dangers notwithstanding. With the river being essentially unchanged. The only difference being that in present day times, and times where people are perhaps bored they increasingly chose to engage in risk behaviors of their choosing. Prior generations were exposed to countless ways in which they could meet their demise which were unavoidable. But they had enough sense to avoid engaging in things that were dangerous for the sake of it.

    ps. I guess stuff like this is fear mongering as well;

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ewan-1.4156917

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...rols-1.4145056


    These warnings occurring this year. Yes river levels vary, but yes, casual users often take no heed and do not differentiate appropriately or sufficiently. Indeed this "beach" that people are already suggesting we should build steps to is going to be likely under water, again, next spring.

    This is a vastly varying river with seasonal and flood risks that are known to occur.
    Last edited by Replacement; 27-08-2017 at 01:17 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  53. #53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Earlier in the thread I noted that Epcor is embarking on a landmark upstream sampling study to test waters and get more indication of localized pollutants, river quality monitoring etc. It will of course cost Millions and Epcor bills will of course rise again and interestingly the individual that lobbied for this sampling is an Epcor "watershed expert" that is part of a club that swims in the river regularly. She even stated the monitoring is so people could swim more safely in the river. Without even acknowledging how her involvement could be easily viewed as vested interest.
    "Without even acknowledging how her involvement could be easily viewed as vested interest."

    How do know that?

  54. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post

    https://app.box.com/shared/static/36...7qlv6ympt2.jpg
    Mine

    Checked it out today. Amazed how nice the sand is. They definitely need to install some stairs, kudos to whoever installed the rope.
    And note that many people are walking or sitting on the beach, some people are wading into the water but I don't see a lot of people swimming. Not much different that most of the world's beaches.

  55. #55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Good grief, can we please get past the environmental fear mongering.
    The river can contain any number of parasites, pollutants, sewage etc that would make it a less than ideal swimming or wading setting. To add to that its dangerous to swim in that body of water. No fear mongering required.
    Every single body of water has parasites, pollutants and sewage etc. It is a pathetic excuse to not enjoy life; and yes, you are fear mongering.
    Another response to this. People are discussing what they think, if anything, should occur regarding this *beach*. You've responded with such aggressive comments as "fear mongering" "pathetic" and the derisive "good grief" while chiding me on "not enjoying life"

    For some reason you aren't discussing this, you're more interested in name calling and aspersion and I'm not sure why. Odd behavior.

    I would wonder if your accusatory tone in this exchange and thread would remind itself who is being inappropriate in the thread.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  56. #56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Good grief, can we please get past the environmental fear mongering.
    The river can contain any number of parasites, pollutants, sewage etc that would make it a less than ideal swimming or wading setting. To add to that its dangerous to swim in that body of water. No fear mongering required.
    Every single body of water has parasites, pollutants and sewage etc. It is a pathetic excuse to not enjoy life; and yes, you are fear mongering.
    I enjoy live fine without contracting beaver fever, suffering from toxins, or contracting some disease or drowning.

    Any public notice on any body of water must strike you as some sort of nanny state mongering.

    The NS, mainly due to drowning possibility is a high risk body of water. As many rivers are. No fear mongering involved.

    More the case its that something that was always understood to be dangerous is now being transformed conceptually into "it isn't so bad" rewriting. Inherent dangers notwithstanding. With the river being essentially unchanged. The only difference being that in present day times, and times where people are perhaps bored they increasingly chose to engage in risk behaviors of their choosing. Prior generations were exposed to countless ways in which they could meet their demise which were unavoidable. But they had enough sense to avoid engaging in things that were dangerous for the sake of it.

    ps. I guess stuff like this is fear mongering as well;

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ewan-1.4156917

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...rols-1.4145056


    These warnings occurring this year. Yes river levels vary, but yes, casual users often take no heed and do not differentiate appropriately or sufficiently. Indeed this "beach" that people are already suggesting we should build steps to is going to be likely under water, again, next spring.

    This is a vastly varying river with seasonal and flood risks that are known to occur.

    You are saying that Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn should have never played along the Mississippi river, a river that is more than 5 times larger than the North Saskatchewan river. The boys had free range, they could have been killed by a bear or accidentally shot by a hunter. And you tell me the North Saskatchewan river is dangerous! The boys would have not reached their full potential if they had not played on the river. Some rules will always be broken by kids again, and again. That is a fact of life no matter how unfortunate it is, we are wrong to rob kids of the adventures they seek.



    Which is very sad...

    The natives used to send their boys alone in the wilderness and didn't allow them to return until they had something to prove their manhood. Some of the boys never made it back, it was a rite of passage and a badge of honour for those that made it.

    If someone swims in the North Saskatchewan river and gets swept away by the current they should pay the bill for being rescued. If a skiier skis outside of the ski area and gets stuck, they are billed something like $10,000 for being rescued.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  57. #57

    Default

    With all due respect Tom and Huck were fictional characters. Native peoples existed in a time and place that was high risk and had no choice in that (harken back to my carefully described point on that). So that some indigenous upbringing (and not all of it by any means and you are generalizing) featured customary rights of passage that were arguable requirements of living arduous lives comprised of untold and unending risks that ended ultimately in extremely short natural life spans. Not exactly something to aspire to.


    Contrast this with civilization that enjoys unprecedented life spans and people who can now engage and enjoy much longer lifespans provided they don't die unnecessarily and pre-empt the length of that enjoyment and contribution in life.

    But really if you're going to use Tom and Huck and generalized memes and mistaken indigenous generalized child rearing as argument then understand that I have treated your post with the utmost respect possible.

    ps Its not sad that parents should wish to protect their children. It could even be described as admirable.
    Last edited by Replacement; 27-08-2017 at 02:35 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  58. #58

    Default

    The characters of Tom and Huck were created after Mark Twian listened to stories of childhood experiences from real people.

    Many children sit around and playing video games all day. They don't go outside to play anymore, too many restrictions have made it boring. It that admirable?

    I'm not saying "parents should not protect their children"' it is the parent's job to tell the children the consequences of doing dangerous things. Parents protect their young ones up to a certain age; after that, they are no longer capable of protecting them.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  59. #59

    Default

    Let's all live long and boring lives playing video games.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  60. #60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    The characters of Tom and Huck were created after Mark Twian listened to stories of childhood experiences from real people.

    Many children sit around and playing video games all day. They don't go outside to play anymore, too many restrictions have made it boring. It that admirable?

    I'm not saying "parents should not protect their children"' it is the parent's job to tell the children the consequences of doing dangerous things. Parents protect their young ones up to a certain age; after that, they are no longer capable of protecting them.
    These are continued gross generalizations and mischaracterization. You've taken an errant theme and based your generalized take on that. You've used induction of ample poor citations in which to do that. You've even engaged in misinformation, all the while characterizing the opines of those that would differ. You've even lampooned you own take with that last post.

    But really if you want to denigrate others positionss please come up with better arguments in which to do that.

    Nor does the limiting of unnecessary danger equate to boring lives playing video games. More the case its how you connect the dots.

    While arguing about such things online on a beautiful summer day that beckons. I'm out for a long bike ride. But not DT, heh

    cheers
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  61. #61

    Default

    Not a big fan at all of this faux beach by the river. I can imagine it will start off with great fanfare, kids coming with plastic buckets and spades cute hats and the whole fifty yards of what people take to a real beach. Then the little ones will start bringing their swimming wings to test the water. Then the bigger kids from eight and up will start bringing those great big inflatable tires and the even bigger kids will bring blow up dinghies and it will get out of hand. Someone is bound to get caught up in a current when a quick storm comes through (or even calmer waters) and you can bet your paycheck they will not be wearing a life jacket. Soon their will be a need for a food vendor there, ice cream, hot dog anyone. Then there will be the debris of whatever food people are eating left behind and no doubt forgotten towels, sunscreen, plastic containers, water wings etc that will be floating in the water in quick time. Has anyone mentioned a life guard on this strip of utopia?. And why would anyone go out of their way to swim in a river that has a 100% chance of the worst kind of crapanakki bacteria and parasites in it. At least the oceans and seas have salt in them that does act as a disinfectant of sorts. I'm a person accidently fell in the river and swallowed some of that water I'm sure a trip to your G P would be in order if even to ask what should you look out for in the coming days, weeks. Some parasites can live in a persons gut for some time before causing problems. Yes, life can be a beach but not on the N S. The C of E should enhance some of the parks we already have instead of blowing taxpayers cash of faux beaches.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  62. #62
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Not a big fan at all of this faux beach by the river. I can imagine it will start off with great fanfare, kids coming with plastic buckets and spades cute hats and the whole fifty yards of what people take to a real beach. Then the little ones will start bringing their swimming wings to test the water. Then the bigger kids from eight and up will start bringing those great big inflatable tires and the even bigger kids will bring blow up dinghies and it will get out of hand. Someone is bound to get caught up in a current when a quick storm comes through (or even calmer waters) and you can bet your paycheck they will not be wearing a life jacket. Soon their will be a need for a food vendor there, ice cream, hot dog anyone. Then there will be the debris of whatever food people are eating left behind and no doubt forgotten towels, sunscreen, plastic containers, water wings etc that will be floating in the water in quick time. Has anyone mentioned a life guard on this strip of utopia?.
    Not to mention that Staples apparently wants these beaches all the way up and down the river valley.

  63. #63

    Default

    View from west.



    What? No tetanus shot required?

  64. #64
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Reading all this stuff, I'm glad I'm a non-aquatic person. No interest in swimming, wading, etc.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  65. #65

    Default

    Hey Replacement, I went outside to the beach and took some photos. There was probably 200 people on the beach including babies and dogs.
    I bet you and Gemini didn't have the guts to check out the beach yourself!





    Untitled by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr
    The black stuff along the shore is coal.


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr
    The water was up to my knees and still clear.


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    Imagine the nice beach we could have if we engineered a proper beach on the river!
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  66. #66

    Default

    When I think of beaches I think of a sea or ocean breeze, sea s hells, crabs (settle down, the sea kind), seaweed, washed up seahorses and starfish, gentle waves or crashing surf and so many other natural occurrences. It's a great learning experience. Not this shipped in sanitized poor excuse of a beach. The most that will be washed up on the C of E beach will be scum from the effluent in the water that will filter down into the sand and stay there as there is no natural tide to carry it out and send it back cleaner. New word for the C of E to chew on, shoreline engineering. Start using that to influence the masses into spending a ton of money to haul in truck loads of sand maybe once or twice a season to replenish the erosion of your faux beach.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  67. #67
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    ^^ What a blight on the valley. And in such an otherwise nice location, too, with that stately old Catholic girls' residence nestled above the trees on the hill.

  68. #68

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    Old Catholic girls like eye-candy too!
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  69. #69

    Default

    Did you know that Kamloops has a beach on the Thompson River?
    201crpfwlshsat by citatus, on Flickr

    Here is some tripadvisor information on the park: https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attractio..._Columbia.html
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  70. #70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    When I think of beaches I think of a sea or ocean breeze, sea s hells, crabs (settle down, the sea kind), seaweed, washed up seahorses and starfish, gentle waves or crashing surf and so many other natural occurrences. It's a great learning experience. Not this shipped in sanitized poor excuse of a beach. The most that will be washed up on the C of E beach will be scum from the effluent in the water that will filter down into the sand and stay there as there is no natural tide to carry it out and send it back cleaner. New word for the C of E to chew on, shoreline engineering. Start using that to influence the masses into spending a ton of money to haul in truck loads of sand maybe once or twice a season to replenish the erosion of your faux beach.

    Sounds like your beach experiences may have been rather limited.

    Off resort beaches can be totally disgusting experiences with vast amounts of debris and garbage washed ashore.

    Even Long Beach on Vancouver Island before the formation of the park was often like a tent city with hippies camping out on the sand, with smoking camp fires and letting garbage blow about.

    Many popular beaches ate cleaned and groomed otherwise they get rows of rotting weeds or seaweeds spotted about.



    Note the problems and the popularity in this article.

    Saskatoon police say no crackdown on swimming in river - Saskatoon - CBC News
    Saskatoon

    Saskatoon police say no crackdown on swimming in river

    Swimming the South Saskatchewan is dangerous, officials say

    CBC News

    June 09, 2015

    "...The city of Saskatoon's bylaw is quite clear: "no person shall swim in the South Saskatchewan River within the limits of the City of Saskatoon."

    But the river is right there, cool and convenient, and when the sun is high and hot, many people tend to ignore that bylaw and take the plunge.

    The day after the heat hit 31 C in Saskatoon, the city's fire department is warning against beating the heat by swimming in the river. Dozens were on the sandbars along Spadina Crescent Monday sunbathing and swimming.

    Battalion chief David Nahachewsky said the bylaw is there for a reason.

    "Most people aren't familiar with the fact that the river's water level changes quite often and that it's not a good idea," he said.






    I can understand somebody's interest to do so, but at the same time Saskatoon does have that bylaw and therefore it is against the law."

    ...

    "This happens every year. The weather gets nice and people are out on the river," police spokesperson Alyson Edwards said.

    No crackdown

    Police have no plans for a big crackdown in illegal swimming in the city. However, they are monitoring the situation.

    Edwards said that from a policing perspective, swimming is perhaps less problematic than things like illegal parking, alcohol consumption and littering.

    ...

    Public beach denied

    A report to Saskatoon city council in 2012 recommended against creating a public beach within the city limits due to the danger of swimming and wading in it.

    The report said that even at low volumes, the river is dangerous because there are undercurrents with very swift moving water.

    "The sandbar may appear to be a safe landmass, but the closer one gets to the river's edge, the more dangerous it becomes. River water can penetrate under the sandbar making the edges unstable and subject to risk," stated the report.

    During the summer of 2011, the report states that police were deployed a number of times to the sandbar along the river between Pembina Avenue and Ravine Drive. Officers observed between 500-750 people on the sandbar during hot days.

    The report said that the high numbers of people going to the sandbar led to issues with parking and littering. ..."


    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/s...iver-1.3105746

    Saskatoon:


    https://nationalpostcom.files.wordpr...w-beach003.jpg


    Other activities:


    http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladiu...8/IMG_3164.jpg


    http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladiu...8/IMG_3197.jpg


    North Saskatchewan River SUP Trek

    "At the end of July we held one of our famous Devon to Laurier Park in Edmonton SUP River Trek’s.

    We once again seemed to luck out with a perfect weather day!
    Twenty five paddlers had a great time paddling 35 km down the North Saskatchewan River..."
    http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladiu...river-sup-trek

    .
    Last edited by KC; 27-08-2017 at 09:48 PM.

  71. #71

    Default

    North Saskatchewan Riverkeeper – Swim. Drink. Fish.

    https://saskriverkeeper.ca/

  72. #72

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Let's all live long and boring lives playing video games.
    And save our money and spend it in Hawaii:

    Waikiki Beach - A Man Made Shorline
    Excerpt:

    "....Even before 1900, several events began shaping the Waikiki that we know today and its sandy beaches. Here are some things you may not know about iconic Waikiki including one beach that was picked best in the USA in 2014.

    Waikiki Beach Erosion
    Following World War II and the onset of tourism and flights to Hawaii, beach restoration efforts boomed and have never ceased. Sand was imported to this man made beach from the 1920’s to the 1970’s, once by boat and barge from Southern California. A few years ago 1,730 feet of shoreline was replenished at a cost of $2.4 Million following chronic erosion of more than a foot a year.

    As long ago as the early 1900’s, plans for the Ala Wai Canal were in place to help with water drainage of wetlands, and seawalls and groins (which we’ve referred to before) began to appear. These helped build sand at one beach but typically resulted in sand loss at others. Before 1950 the beaches of Waikiki were continuous. Since then however, they have become separated into sections, some with sandy beach and others without. ..."


    http://beatofhawaii.com/waikiki-beac...made-shorline/



    Hawaii's Most Famous Beach Is Hiding A Big Secret
    HI
    March 26, 2016 by Megan Shute

    Hawaii’s Most Famous Beach Is Hiding A Big Secret
    Excerpt:

    "The world famous Waikiki Beach draws millions of tourists to its white sands and turquoise waters each year, accounting for approximately 42 percent of the state’s tourist industry revenue – roughly $2 billion annually. But Waikiki Beach is also holding onto a secret of massive proportions: Waikiki is in fact an engineered beach that has been filled with imported sand for decades – and it is unfortunately in danger of being lost entirely...."


    http://www.onlyinyourstate.com/hawai...aikiki-secret/
    Or go to Florida:

    The 100-year story of Miami Beach

    BY ANDRES VIGLUCCI
    [email protected]
    MARCH 21, 2015 11:32 PM

    In the beginning there was a slender sandspit of mangroves and swamp, mosquitoes and crocodiles, palmetto scrub and sea-stroked beach.

    And Carl Fisher said, “let dry ground appear.” So he spent a good part of his fortune to put fearsome machines to work for 15 years pumping up muck from Biscayne Bay, and it was so. Carl Fisher called the dry ground “Miami Beach” and saw it was good, and so did millions of people after him.

    So thoroughly did founding father Fisher and his crews erase most traces of nature from what writer Polly Redford dubbed the Billion-Dollar Sandbar that it’s easy to forget today, as Miami Beach marks its centennial as an incorporated city in characteristically hyped-up fashion, just how completely a manufactured place it is.

    Even the famed wide sandy beach is artificial, barged in from offshore in a latter-day echo of Fisher’s land-making. The one nature put there washed away years ago, its erosion accelerated by construction of the endless parade of hotels that made Miami Beach Miami Beach.


    Yet as human inventions go, the Beach has been an outlandishly successful one, having turned itself in a century of compressed but eventful history from millionaire’s caprice to global darling after rising Lazarus-like from near death.

    In its former peak, a period from from the late 1940s to the early ’60s in which it devised and perfected the modern resort hotel and mass tourism, Miami Beach was America’s Playground. It is now the world’s — a dynamic magnet for people and their money, a sparkling showcase of architecture old and new, an international shopping bazaar, a gourmandizer’s paradise and, much to the amazement of its natives, a cultural standard-bearer.


    In short,

    ...

    But as the Beach increasingly becomes a landing spot for billionaires and the merely very wealthy, some fear there will be no place on it for anyone else. The risk that success will spoil Miami Beach is real, they say.

    “Was it ever realistic to think you could freeze it in amber?” said Neisen Kasdin, a Beach native, preservationist and former mayor who admires the sophisticated place his hometown has become. “You can’t stop the evolution. People are going to come. But my concern is there is no place for the middle class and the working professionals.”

    But still they keep on coming, the New Yorkers and the South Americans and the Europeans, the multimillionaires with the multimillion-dollar pied-a-terres and the college kids looking for some action. And no one thinks it’s going to stop anytime soon.

    “I don’t think Miami Beach will disappear into the dust,” Kleinberg said. “It’s going to continue to change. I can’t envision what it will be 100 years from now. All these predictions have it under water by then, of course.

    “But just not tomorrow"...

    Last edited by KC; 27-08-2017 at 10:26 PM.

  73. #73
    C2E Long Term Contributor
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    Thanks for the pics, Thomas. Great shots.

    I wasn't expecting this to be the type of beach you'd find in California or the Okanagan, but it still looks good and more importantly it is attracting lots of people, especially families, to the river valley. You know, the river valley that gets touted as this great tourist attraction but nobody can do anything unless you're a cyclist or a jogger.

    A pity there's people in this city who still yearn to be "Deadmonton".
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  74. #74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    When I think of beaches I think of a sea or ocean breeze, sea s hells, crabs (settle down, the sea kind), seaweed, washed up seahorses and starfish, gentle waves or crashing surf and so many other natural occurrences. It's a great learning experience. Not this shipped in sanitized poor excuse of a beach. The most that will be washed up on the C of E beach will be scum from the effluent in the water that will filter down into the sand and stay there as there is no natural tide to carry it out and send it back cleaner. New word for the C of E to chew on, shoreline engineering. Start using that to influence the masses into spending a ton of money to haul in truck loads of sand maybe once or twice a season to replenish the erosion of your faux beach.

    Sounds like your beach experiences may have been rather limited.

    Off resort beaches can be totally disgusting experiences with vast amounts of debris and garbage washed ashore.

    Even Long Beach on Vancouver Island before the formation of the park was often like a tent city with hippies camping out on the sand, with smoking camp fires and letting garbage blow about.

    Many popular beaches ate cleaned and groomed otherwise they get rows of rotting weeds or seaweeds spotted about.



    Note the problems and the popularity in this article.

    Saskatoon police say no crackdown on swimming in river - Saskatoon - CBC News
    Saskatoon

    Saskatoon police say no crackdown on swimming in river

    Swimming the South Saskatchewan is dangerous, officials say

    CBC News

    June 09, 2015

    "...The city of Saskatoon's bylaw is quite clear: "no person shall swim in the South Saskatchewan River within the limits of the City of Saskatoon."

    But the river is right there, cool and convenient, and when the sun is high and hot, many people tend to ignore that bylaw and take the plunge.

    The day after the heat hit 31 C in Saskatoon, the city's fire department is warning against beating the heat by swimming in the river. Dozens were on the sandbars along Spadina Crescent Monday sunbathing and swimming.

    Battalion chief David Nahachewsky said the bylaw is there for a reason.

    "Most people aren't familiar with the fact that the river's water level changes quite often and that it's not a good idea," he said.






    I can understand somebody's interest to do so, but at the same time Saskatoon does have that bylaw and therefore it is against the law."

    ...

    "This happens every year. The weather gets nice and people are out on the river," police spokesperson Alyson Edwards said.

    No crackdown

    Police have no plans for a big crackdown in illegal swimming in the city. However, they are monitoring the situation.

    Edwards said that from a policing perspective, swimming is perhaps less problematic than things like illegal parking, alcohol consumption and littering.

    ...

    Public beach denied

    A report to Saskatoon city council in 2012 recommended against creating a public beach within the city limits due to the danger of swimming and wading in it.

    The report said that even at low volumes, the river is dangerous because there are undercurrents with very swift moving water.

    "The sandbar may appear to be a safe landmass, but the closer one gets to the river's edge, the more dangerous it becomes. River water can penetrate under the sandbar making the edges unstable and subject to risk," stated the report.

    During the summer of 2011, the report states that police were deployed a number of times to the sandbar along the river between Pembina Avenue and Ravine Drive. Officers observed between 500-750 people on the sandbar during hot days.

    The report said that the high numbers of people going to the sandbar led to issues with parking and littering. ..."


    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/s...iver-1.3105746

    Saskatoon:


    https://nationalpostcom.files.wordpr...w-beach003.jpg


    Other activities:


    http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladiu...8/IMG_3164.jpg


    http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladiu...8/IMG_3197.jpg


    North Saskatchewan River SUP Trek

    "At the end of July we held one of our famous Devon to Laurier Park in Edmonton SUP River Trek’s.

    We once again seemed to luck out with a perfect weather day!
    Twenty five paddlers had a great time paddling 35 km down the North Saskatchewan River..."
    http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladiu...river-sup-trek

    .
    I lived 8 miles inland from some very nice natural beaches. Used to go to the beach lots of times weather permitting. The tide carried in all kinds of treasures and also took it back out again. It's called the natural progression of things. Kids had a ball finding shells, sea urchins plus people going along with metal detectors. Sounds like your visits to beaches have been faux beaches. As for your paddle down the N S river. 25 paddlers and it seems not one of those doofuses has a life jacket on. Did no one have the talk with them about safety and water sports.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  75. #75

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    Pretty much anyone with wheels can get down to the river via one of the boat launches. With the river being so low there's plenty of "beach" available. I go to one of them to have a sandwich by the river about every other day and there are boaters of avarious sorts and people with kids and dogs and some who bring a chair and a book.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Thanks for the pics, Thomas. Great shots.

    I wasn't expecting this to be the type of beach you'd find in California or the Okanagan, but it still looks good and more importantly it is attracting lots of people, especially families, to the river valley. You know, the river valley that gets touted as this great tourist attraction but nobody can do anything unless you're a cyclist or a jogger.

    A pity there's people in this city who still yearn to be "Deadmonton".
    Yeah I tend to agree. I don't think this one or any iteration of it will survive into the future as these things typically go, so the pictures will be a nice reminder that many Edmontonians did get out and walk the sands of our river.

    I think many Edmontonians have modest desires and expectations for leisure activities in our valley but adding a beech-like environment via some sand creates its own new memories and positive experiences.

    A few might like the novelty of swimming in the river but I think that most people just want to be able to better enjoy our summer sunshine.

  77. #77
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Really good pics, Thomas.

    How hard was it to get access to the beach? Was there a dirt trail?

    My mother uses a cane. Would it be difficult for folks with mobility issues?

  78. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    When I think of beaches I think of a sea or ocean breeze, sea s hells, crabs (settle down, the sea kind), seaweed, washed up seahorses and starfish, gentle waves or crashing surf and so many other natural occurrences. It's a great learning experience. Not this shipped in sanitized poor excuse of a beach. The most that will be washed up on the C of E beach will be scum from the effluent in the water that will filter down into the sand and stay there as there is no natural tide to carry it out and send it back cleaner. New word for the C of E to chew on, shoreline engineering. Start using that to influence the masses into spending a ton of money to haul in truck loads of sand maybe once or twice a season to replenish the erosion of your faux beach.

    Sounds like your beach experiences may have been rather limited.

    Off resort beaches can be totally disgusting experiences with vast amounts of debris and garbage washed ashore.

    Even Long Beach on Vancouver Island before the formation of the park was often like a tent city with hippies camping out on the sand, with smoking camp fires and letting garbage blow about.

    Many popular beaches ate cleaned and groomed otherwise they get rows of rotting weeds or seaweeds spotted about.



    Note the problems and the popularity in this article.

    Saskatoon police say no crackdown on swimming in river - Saskatoon - CBC News
    Saskatoon

    Saskatoon police say no crackdown on swimming in river

    Swimming the South Saskatchewan is dangerous, officials say

    CBC News

    June 09, 2015

    "...The city of Saskatoon's bylaw is quite clear: "no person shall swim in the South Saskatchewan River within the limits of the City of Saskatoon."

    But the river is right there, cool and convenient, and when the sun is high and hot, many people tend to ignore that bylaw and take the plunge.

    The day after the heat hit 31 C in Saskatoon, the city's fire department is warning against beating the heat by swimming in the river. Dozens were on the sandbars along Spadina Crescent Monday sunbathing and swimming.

    Battalion chief David Nahachewsky said the bylaw is there for a reason.

    "Most people aren't familiar with the fact that the river's water level changes quite often and that it's not a good idea," he said.






    I can understand somebody's interest to do so, but at the same time Saskatoon does have that bylaw and therefore it is against the law."

    ...

    "This happens every year. The weather gets nice and people are out on the river," police spokesperson Alyson Edwards said.

    No crackdown

    Police have no plans for a big crackdown in illegal swimming in the city. However, they are monitoring the situation.

    Edwards said that from a policing perspective, swimming is perhaps less problematic than things like illegal parking, alcohol consumption and littering.

    ...

    Public beach denied

    A report to Saskatoon city council in 2012 recommended against creating a public beach within the city limits due to the danger of swimming and wading in it.

    The report said that even at low volumes, the river is dangerous because there are undercurrents with very swift moving water.

    "The sandbar may appear to be a safe landmass, but the closer one gets to the river's edge, the more dangerous it becomes. River water can penetrate under the sandbar making the edges unstable and subject to risk," stated the report.

    During the summer of 2011, the report states that police were deployed a number of times to the sandbar along the river between Pembina Avenue and Ravine Drive. Officers observed between 500-750 people on the sandbar during hot days.

    The report said that the high numbers of people going to the sandbar led to issues with parking and littering. ..."


    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/s...iver-1.3105746

    Saskatoon:


    https://nationalpostcom.files.wordpr...w-beach003.jpg


    Other activities:


    http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladiu...8/IMG_3164.jpg


    http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladiu...8/IMG_3197.jpg


    North Saskatchewan River SUP Trek

    "At the end of July we held one of our famous Devon to Laurier Park in Edmonton SUP River Trek’s.

    We once again seemed to luck out with a perfect weather day!
    Twenty five paddlers had a great time paddling 35 km down the North Saskatchewan River..."
    http://www.theeasyrider.com/palladiu...river-sup-trek

    .
    I lived 8 miles inland from some very nice natural beaches. Used to go to the beach lots of times weather permitting. The tide carried in all kinds of treasures and also took it back out again. It's called the natural progression of things. Kids had a ball finding shells, sea urchins plus people going along with metal detectors. Sounds like your visits to beaches have been faux beaches. As for your paddle down the N S river. 25 paddlers and it seems not one of those doofuses has a life jacket on. Did no one have the talk with them about safety and water sports.

    My youth wasn't Hawaii or Florida or California beaches, so was raised with very modest expectations of the idea of a beach and vast expanses of white sand, sunshine and beautiful blue waters wasn't at all part of it.

    My youth was a small but very white sandy beach at our cabin (which is now totally invisible and covered with trees and shrubs) and trips to Vancouver island's Long Beech, plus the odd trip to local beaches like Silver Sands on Pigeon and the larger beaches at Gull and Sylvan, etc.

    Only as an adult have I visited beeches in Hawaii, California, Florida, etc. - some of which aren't apparently all that natural.

  79. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Hey Replacement, I went outside to the beach and took some photos. There was probably 200 people on the beach including babies and dogs.
    I bet you and Gemini didn't have the guts to check out the beach yourself!





    Untitled by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr
    The black stuff along the shore is coal.


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr
    The water was up to my knees and still clear.


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    New beach in Edmonton by Thomas Huizinga, on Flickr


    Imagine the nice beach we could have if we engineered a proper beach on the river!

    And for clean safe swimming, put an outdoor swimming pool on the adjacent river bank. Along the beach add in infrastructure for boating, paddling, etc.

    Maybe the city should scoop up that sand while they can.

    Oh, and was anyone gold panning there?
    Last edited by KC; 27-08-2017 at 11:02 PM.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Really good pics, Thomas.

    How hard was it to get access to the beach? Was there a dirt trail?

    My mother uses a cane. Would it be difficult for folks with mobility issues?
    We stopped by last night for a picnic. It was so amazing that we spent the day there today. Along with several hundred more people. I would dare say somewhere between 500-1000 people at peak. The best beach area is the eastern half. That is also closest to the easier access points.

    Getting in is not easy. The best access point is the furthest east. Essentially at 98 ave and 92 st, just east of that on the dirt path there is a washout area to the beach. There are no steps. A cane would definitely not work without assistance.
    As long as the keep the rocks around the bridge pier in place, the beach is likely going to stay year after year. And they should keep it. I've never seen so many people so proud of their river valley. Everyone that was there commented at least one of these phrases:

    "I didn't think it was so big"
    "I can't believe this is Edmonton!"
    "This is amazing, I hope they keep it"

    At least 100 kids/adults playing/floating/swimming in the water. The current is still pretty strong, so only adults past about 20' off the shore. It felt like a completely different city. There was at least a dozen power boats toodling or ripping buy. Closer to 50 canoes, kayaks, SUPs, etc. One powerboat came on shore for a couple hours, people in canoes got out and played around for a couple hours. People playing beach vball, building sand castles, sun tanning, picnics, etc. There are no garbage cans, bathrooms or water fountains on the beach. A couple intrepid kids had already set up lemonade and snack stands on the beach.

    The water is cleaner and the beach is nicer than pretty much anything within a 2 hr drive of here. No algae, no reeds or weeds, no crappy hardscrabble 'beach', no flies and bugs.

    They need to build an access ramp down the bank for emergency vehicles and for food trucks to get on the beach. Bring down a dozen porto potties each season. Maybe 20 firepits. Someone suggested life guards. I can only imagine how amazing it would be to have an outdoor wedding on there at sunset. The skyline view is amazing, and will only be getting better.

    We convinced a half dozen other families to join us today and they were all blown away by how good it was. We're already making plans to go a couple times this week after work.

    The city spends so much effort trying to activate the river valley, and here it happens almost by accident. They need to run with this 100%. Doesn't need complicated reviews and committees. Just keep it simple and do it. And then do it again on the north side of the river by the victoria skating oval where there is parking available.

    It's only going to be usable Jul-Sep due to water levels, but that's when the weather is nicest and when the kids are out of school.
    Literally, everyone who stepped foot on it had a huge grin on their face.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Really good pics, Thomas.

    How hard was it to get access to the beach? Was there a dirt trail?

    My mother uses a cane. Would it be difficult for folks with mobility issues?
    The access on the east end, pretty much right by 92st is not bad, but there is still a slope and yes it's a dirt path.
    The west end is very steep, someone added a rope so there is something to hold onto.

  82. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Really good pics, Thomas.

    How hard was it to get access to the beach? Was there a dirt trail?

    My mother uses a cane. Would it be difficult for folks with mobility issues?
    We stopped by last night for a picnic. It was so amazing that we spent the day there today. Along with several hundred more people. I would dare say somewhere between 500-1000 people at peak. The best beach area is the eastern half. That is also closest to the easier access points.

    Getting in is not easy. The best access point is the furthest east. Essentially at 98 ave and 92 st, just east of that on the dirt path there is a washout area to the beach. There are no steps. A cane would definitely not work without assistance.
    As long as the keep the rocks around the bridge pier in place, the beach is likely going to stay year after year. And they should keep it. I've never seen so many people so proud of their river valley. Everyone that was there commented at least one of these phrases:

    "I didn't think it was so big"
    "I can't believe this is Edmonton!"
    "This is amazing, I hope they keep it"

    At least 100 kids/adults playing/floating/swimming in the water. The current is still pretty strong, so only adults past about 20' off the shore. It felt like a completely different city. There was at least a dozen power boats toodling or ripping buy. Closer to 50 canoes, kayaks, SUPs, etc. One powerboat came on shore for a couple hours, people in canoes got out and played around for a couple hours. People playing beach vball, building sand castles, sun tanning, picnics, etc. There are no garbage cans, bathrooms or water fountains on the beach. A couple intrepid kids had already set up lemonade and snack stands on the beach.

    The water is cleaner and the beach is nicer than pretty much anything within a 2 hr drive of here. No algae, no reeds or weeds, no crappy hardscrabble 'beach', no flies and bugs.

    They need to build an access ramp down the bank for emergency vehicles and for food trucks to get on the beach. Bring down a dozen porto potties each season. Maybe 20 firepits. Someone suggested life guards. I can only imagine how amazing it would be to have an outdoor wedding on there at sunset. The skyline view is amazing, and will only be getting better.

    We convinced a half dozen other families to join us today and they were all blown away by how good it was. We're already making plans to go a couple times this week after work.

    The city spends so much effort trying to activate the river valley, and here it happens almost by accident. They need to run with this 100%. Doesn't need complicated reviews and committees. Just keep it simple and do it. And then do it again on the north side of the river by the victoria skating oval where there is parking available.

    It's only going to be usable Jul-Sep due to water levels, but that's when the weather is nicest and when the kids are out of school.
    Literally, everyone who stepped foot on it had a huge grin on their face.
    Nice to hear.


    I think a lot of people looked at the idea presented a few years ago and made a judgment that that proposal was a dud - so all future such proposals would also be duds. I don't think any of those minds will ever change but if enough people experience this, then maybe enough decision makers will see that the idea of a "beach" (aka sandbar) in Edmonton isn't so outlandish. Such sandbars are natural, its just that not many Edmontonians have experienced them so when beach ideas are floated, they instead mentally rely on their imagery or other experiences to conjure up what a "proper beach" is, and that doesn't fit in Edmonton.

    The Great Edmonton River Valley Debate, Pt 6: The beach
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...pt-6-the-beach

  83. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Hey Replacement, I went outside to the beach and took some photos. There was probably 200 people on the beach including babies and dogs.
    I bet you and Gemini didn't have the guts to check out the beach yourself!



    Imagine the nice beach we could have if we engineered a proper beach on the river!
    No, I lack the interest to check it out. I live within 30minutes of Miquelon, would frankly rather go there, or Pigeon Lake or something like that. That said I'm not really a beach person unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast.

    We spent the day cycling from Millwoods to the river valley, U of A, then to Fringe and back. great day, lots of activity, exercise, didn't get sand in everything, didn't have to break my legs trying to negotiate some beach access that is entirely unknown, unmarked and has no facilities anyways.

    Glad people are enjoying it but I can't really see the attraction. I'm with Gem on this. I love Ocean coastal beaches. if you've done a ton of that type of exploration this here beach everybody is talking about isn't all that much.

    If you've hiked the West coast trail and Napali coast line trail like I have its kind of hard to get excited about some mundane beach like this.

    I think more than anything its just become kind of a temporary thing. Not sure why this one is so popular. Several other beaches exist in the river valley and are easy enough to access and there isn't huge crowds at those. This one is even hard to get to, hardly any parking nearby, so I don't really get it.
    Last edited by Replacement; 27-08-2017 at 11:56 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  84. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Really good pics, Thomas.

    How hard was it to get access to the beach? Was there a dirt trail?

    My mother uses a cane. Would it be difficult for folks with mobility issues?
    The access on the east end, pretty much right by 92st is not bad, but there is still a slope and yes it's a dirt path.
    The west end is very steep, someone added a rope so there is something to hold onto.
    This sounds like an accident waiting to happen. The likelihood is that someone from the COE starts getting wind of this and will visit the site. From that point precautions, if not roping off of the area will occur.
    Wouldn't surprise me if there are attempts to shut this down before fall.

    Watch what happens when it rains and people try to get in or out of the area. Or people are there and a storm comes. What if they have trouble getting back up the slope. Right now we've barely had any precipitation in weeks and conditions are perfectly dry. Which also explains why there is so much sandbar exposed.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Hey Replacement, I went outside to the beach and took some photos. There was probably 200 people on the beach including babies and dogs.
    I bet you and Gemini didn't have the guts to check out the beach yourself!



    Imagine the nice beach we could have if we engineered a proper beach on the river!
    No, I lack the interest to check it out. I live within 30minutes of Miquelon, would frankly rather go there, or Pigeon Lake or something like that. That said I'm not really a beach person unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast.

    We spent the day cycling from Millwoods to the river valley, U of A, then to Fringe and back. great day, lots of activity, exercise, didn't get sand in everything, didn't have to break my legs trying to negotiate some beach access that is entirely unknown, unmarked and has no facilities anyways.

    Glad people are enjoying it but I can't really see the attraction. I'm with Gem on this. I love Ocean coastal beaches. if you've done a ton of that type of exploration this here beach everybody is talking about isn't all that much.

    If you've hiked the West coast trail and Napali coast line trail like I have its kind of hard to get excited about some mundane beach like this.

    I think more than anything its just become kind of a temporary thing. Not sure why this one is so popular. Several other beaches exist in the river valley and are easy enough to access and there isn't huge crowds at those. This one is even hard to get to, hardly any parking nearby, so I don't really get it.

    "I'm not really a beach person"

    "unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast

    "Glad people are enjoying it but I can't really see the attraction."

    "I'm with Gem on this. I love Ocean coastal beaches."

    "didn't get sand in everything, didn't have to break my legs trying to negotiate some beach access that is entirely unknown, unmarked and has no facilities anyways. "

    "its kind of hard to get excited about some mundane beach like this."



    "I'm not really a beach person" No kidding. Or, it actually sounds more like: 'I'm not really a beach person. Not unless it meets my standards that is. ' i.e. as in: "unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast"


    I also get the sense that you didn't build sand castles as a kid either.

    However, I do get the impression that you had a privileged upbringing, and that has raised your standards so high that you just can't hear of any proposals that are beneath you. Those that the less lucky in life might just get to enjoy. Many families and many kids in Edmonton will get little chance to see those coastal beaches you and Gem set as your minimum standards for being worthy of your attendance.


    FYI: From the Free Dictionary (below):

    "snob (snŏb)
    n.
    1. One who despises, ignores, or is patronizing to those he or she considers inferior.
    2. One who is convinced of his or her superiority in matters of taste or intellect. "

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/snob


    mundane Love it. mundane mundane mundane


    By the way, I know people that have had what I'd call extremely privileged upbringings. Why is it that with some them, I'm certain - you - would never know it?
    Last edited by KC; 28-08-2017 at 12:26 AM.

  86. #86

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    ^Wrong on all counts. Grew up in Jasper Place in the worst possible area of it and raised by alcoholic parents one with advanced mental health issues that would beat me randomly and that would escalate with no warning. I was a latch key kid that started doing drugs/alcohol at the age of 12 (did anything to be away from home) and not bothering to come home and nobody noticed, nobody cared. Older brother was conveniently a drug dealer and biker. So no, not quite privileged..

    Thing is I live in a beautiful Province. My favorite places would be Lake Louise, Moraine Lake, Edith Cavell, Assiniboine Lake, Lake O hara, places like that. Those kinds of places move me and hiking is a lifelong passion. I find my peace there on the trails. In the back country or the front country. Something like peace is rare enough for me to find.

    All that said I dislike crowds and find people beaches generally pretentious. to be clear I hate the kind of beaches where people watching is the thing. Zero interest in that kind of Cannes thing. I like interesting natural environments, not crowds. It would be less attractive to me that this particular beach is now busy. I'd probably enjoy it more when it was a secret.
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-08-2017 at 12:29 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  87. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Wrong on all counts. Grew up in Jasper Place in the worst possible area of it and raised by alcoholic parents one with advanced mental health issues. I was a latch key kid that started doing drugs/alcohol at the age of 12 and not bothering to come home and nobody noticed, nobody cared. Older brother was conveniently a drug dealer and biker. So no, not quite privileged..

    Thing is I live in a beautiful Province. My favorite places would be Lake Louise, Moraine Lake, Edith Cavell, Assiniboine Lake, Lake O hara, places like that. Those kinds of places move me and hiking is a lifelong passion. I find my peace there on the trails. Something rare for me to find.

    Well, my sincere apologies then. But don't actively work to begrudge others some pleasures like you are now able to find, in their lives as well.


    I however, grew up not far from JP, also in an 'average' neighbourhood but with all the advantages and almost none, probably closer to zero, of the disadvantages. Yet I knew people that talked much like you talk now.

    I also know people (mostly family actually) that have a lot (many multiples of my brains, success, wealth, worldly experience, etc.) and in first meeting them, no one would ever know it.
    Last edited by KC; 28-08-2017 at 12:36 AM.

  88. #88
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    KC wrote:

    "And save our money and spend it in Hawaii"

    Is this meant to suggest that people who would consider going to Hawaii for the beaches would stay in Edmonton if there was one on the North Saskatchewan? If so, I think you are REALLY misunderstanding the reasons people go to Hawaii. It's like saying "Why would anyone go to Monte Carlo, when we have casinos right here in Edmonton."

    And if you meant something else, I'd be interested to know what it was.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Wrong on all counts. Grew up in Jasper Place in the worst possible area of it and raised by alcoholic parents one with advanced mental health issues that would beat me randomly and that would escalate with no warning. I was a latch key kid that started doing drugs/alcohol at the age of 12 (did anything to be away from home) and not bothering to come home and nobody noticed, nobody cared. Older brother was conveniently a drug dealer and biker. So no, not quite privileged..

    Thing is I live in a beautiful Province. My favorite places would be Lake Louise, Moraine Lake, Edith Cavell, Assiniboine Lake, Lake O hara, places like that. Those kinds of places move me and hiking is a lifelong passion. I find my peace there on the trails. In the back country or the front country. Something like peace is rare enough for me to find.

    All that said I dislike crowds and find people beaches generally pretentious. to be clear I hate the kind of beaches where people watching is the thing. Zero interest in that kind of Cannes thing. I like interesting natural environments, not crowds. It would be less attractive to me that this particular beach is now busy. I'd probably enjoy it more when it was a secret.
    I think we're pretty much on the same page, Replacement, minus the biographies(my teen years were somewhat less than ideal, though for different reasons than yours). My objections to the beach are mainly aesthetic: I just don't think it shows an appreciation of the river valley, its nature, history etc.

    I honestly don't know much about the scientific argument. Logically, it makes sense that a river into which sewage gets poured would be a bad location for swimming, but a lot of people seem cool with it, so what do I know.

  90. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Wrong on all counts. Grew up in Jasper Place in the worst possible area of it and raised by alcoholic parents one with advanced mental health issues. I was a latch key kid that started doing drugs/alcohol at the age of 12 and not bothering to come home and nobody noticed, nobody cared. Older brother was conveniently a drug dealer and biker. So no, not quite privileged..

    Thing is I live in a beautiful Province. My favorite places would be Lake Louise, Moraine Lake, Edith Cavell, Assiniboine Lake, Lake O hara, places like that. Those kinds of places move me and hiking is a lifelong passion. I find my peace there on the trails. Something rare for me to find.

    Well, my sincere apologies then. But don't actively work to begrudge others some pleasures like you are now able to find, in their lives as well.
    You should apologize for your outright condescension, leaps of logic, and reading between the lines. Screw off as well with your snob interpretation. I live In Millwoods, I drive a Hyundai, I've been actively cycling on the same cheap Costco bike for 15yrs. Camping with the same same cheap tent trailer for 20yrs. I'm a Social Worker, not a snob, thanks.



    Go find some other fishing expedition.
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-08-2017 at 12:42 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  91. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    KC wrote:

    "And save our money and spend it in Hawaii"

    Is this meant to suggest that people who would consider going to Hawaii for the beaches would stay in Edmonton if there was one on the North Saskatchewan? If so, I think you are REALLY misunderstanding the reasons people go to Hawaii. It's like saying "Why would anyone go to Monte Carlo, when we have casinos right here in Edmonton."

    And if you meant something else, I'd be interested to know what it was.
    No. Few people go anywhere for just one single, simple thing.

    However, the first time I went to Hawaii it was early spring here - not very green. Everything in Hawaii was lush and the contrast in leaving Edmonton and touring about there was memorable. The interesting thing though was that when I returned, my parent's backyard was in full bloom. Really lush and green and loaded with flowers.

    That's when I realized that what I'd just experienced, that huge contrast, was all in the timing. Hawaii in one sense wasn't as special as I'd thought. I just hadn't noticed what I had here, literally in my own back yard. So, we had something similar in a sense here too, but I'd just never noticed it, or appreciated it, and probably wouldn't have noticed it if it wasn't for the coincidental timing. (Had it been a winter trip, returning in the winter... I'd be telling everyone that Hawaii is so lush, it's so amazing... )
    Last edited by KC; 28-08-2017 at 12:50 AM.

  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Wrong on all counts. Grew up in Jasper Place in the worst possible area of it and raised by alcoholic parents one with advanced mental health issues that would beat me randomly and that would escalate with no warning. I was a latch key kid that started doing drugs/alcohol at the age of 12 (did anything to be away from home) and not bothering to come home and nobody noticed, nobody cared. Older brother was conveniently a drug dealer and biker. So no, not quite privileged..

    Thing is I live in a beautiful Province. My favorite places would be Lake Louise, Moraine Lake, Edith Cavell, Assiniboine Lake, Lake O hara, places like that. Those kinds of places move me and hiking is a lifelong passion. I find my peace there on the trails. In the back country or the front country. Something like peace is rare enough for me to find.

    All that said I dislike crowds and find people beaches generally pretentious. to be clear I hate the kind of beaches where people watching is the thing. Zero interest in that kind of Cannes thing. I like interesting natural environments, not crowds. It would be less attractive to me that this particular beach is now busy. I'd probably enjoy it more when it was a secret.
    I think we're pretty much on the same page, Replacement, minus the biographies(my teen years were somewhat less than ideal, though for different reasons than yours). My objections to the beach are mainly aesthetic: I just don't think it shows an appreciation of the river valley, its nature, history etc.

    I honestly don't know much about the scientific argument. Logically, it makes sense that a river into which sewage gets poured would be a bad location for swimming, but a lot of people seem cool with it, so what do I know.
    In the river valley I tend to be more into hiking, cycling. I'm a movement, kinesthetic person. I find my peace moving. Activity required. Like I said my idea of a beach is Napali coast line trail hiking into different very remote beaches and then hking to get to the next one the next day.

    Nor does it need to be far away. Elk Island is fine, tons of interesting places in the river valley that are remote and people seldom get to. I do prefer non crowded places. Not antisocial, but my job involves people, my free time tends to favor solitude. if that's being a snob...
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  93. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Hey Replacement, I went outside to the beach and took some photos. There was probably 200 people on the beach including babies and dogs.
    I bet you and Gemini didn't have the guts to check out the beach yourself!



    Imagine the nice beach we could have if we engineered a proper beach on the river!
    No, I lack the interest to check it out. I live within 30minutes of Miquelon, would frankly rather go there, or Pigeon Lake or something like that. That said I'm not really a beach person unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast.

    We spent the day cycling from Millwoods to the river valley, U of A, then to Fringe and back. great day, lots of activity, exercise, didn't get sand in everything, didn't have to break my legs trying to negotiate some beach access that is entirely unknown, unmarked and has no facilities anyways.

    Glad people are enjoying it but I can't really see the attraction. I'm with Gem on this. I love Ocean coastal beaches. if you've done a ton of that type of exploration this here beach everybody is talking about isn't all that much.

    If you've hiked the West coast trail and Napali coast line trail like I have its kind of hard to get excited about some mundane beach like this.

    I think more than anything its just become kind of a temporary thing. Not sure why this one is so popular. Several other beaches exist in the river valley and are easy enough to access and there isn't huge crowds at those. This one is even hard to get to, hardly any parking nearby, so I don't really get it.
    Replacement, I cannot believe that you actually went to the river valley but didn't even attempt to go to the water's edge. Not examining your opinion from another perspective gained zero respect from me. Replacement and Gemini, no one likes it when other people telling them how to live.

    I just came back from Seaside, Oregon so I know the kind of beaches you are talking about. Of course, this sandbar doesn't compare but it is a thousand times better than a sandbox with umbrellas in it.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  94. #94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Wrong on all counts. Grew up in Jasper Place in the worst possible area of it and raised by alcoholic parents one with advanced mental health issues. I was a latch key kid that started doing drugs/alcohol at the age of 12 and not bothering to come home and nobody noticed, nobody cared. Older brother was conveniently a drug dealer and biker. So no, not quite privileged..

    Thing is I live in a beautiful Province. My favorite places would be Lake Louise, Moraine Lake, Edith Cavell, Assiniboine Lake, Lake O hara, places like that. Those kinds of places move me and hiking is a lifelong passion. I find my peace there on the trails. Something rare for me to find.

    Well, my sincere apologies then. But don't actively work to begrudge others some pleasures like you are now able to find, in their lives as well.
    You should apologize for your outright condescension, leaps of logic, and reading between the lines. Screw off as well with your snob interpretation. I live In Millwoods, I drive a Hyundai, I've been actively cycling on the same cheap Costco bike for 15yrs. Camping with the same same cheap tent trailer for 20yrs. I'm a Social Worker, not a snob, thanks.



    Go find some other fishing expedition.
    Nope. Reread your own words above. Moreover it's not just the semantics, it's the obvious condescension of your chosen words. You're still a snob.
    Last edited by KC; 28-08-2017 at 08:43 AM.

  95. #95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    It will of course cost Millions.
    Less than $2 annually per household.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  96. #96

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Hey Replacement, I went outside to the beach and took some photos. There was probably 200 people on the beach including babies and dogs.
    I bet you and Gemini didn't have the guts to check out the beach yourself!



    Imagine the nice beach we could have if we engineered a proper beach on the river!
    No, I lack the interest to check it out. I live within 30minutes of Miquelon, would frankly rather go there, or Pigeon Lake or something like that. That said I'm not really a beach person unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast.

    We spent the day cycling from Millwoods to the river valley, U of A, then to Fringe and back. great day, lots of activity, exercise, didn't get sand in everything, didn't have to break my legs trying to negotiate some beach access that is entirely unknown, unmarked and has no facilities anyways.

    Glad people are enjoying it but I can't really see the attraction. I'm with Gem on this. I love Ocean coastal beaches. if you've done a ton of that type of exploration this here beach everybody is talking about isn't all that much.

    If you've hiked the West coast trail and Napali coast line trail like I have its kind of hard to get excited about some mundane beach like this.

    I think more than anything its just become kind of a temporary thing. Not sure why this one is so popular. Several other beaches exist in the river valley and are easy enough to access and there isn't huge crowds at those. This one is even hard to get to, hardly any parking nearby, so I don't really get it.
    Replacement, I cannot believe that you actually went to the river valley but didn't even attempt to go to the water's edge. Not examining your opinion from another perspective gained zero respect from me. Replacement and Gemini, no one likes it when other people telling them how to live.

    I just came back from Seaside, Oregon so I know the kind of beaches you are talking about. Of course, this sandbar doesn't compare but it is a thousand times better than a sandbox with umbrellas in it.
    Maybe a thousand times bigger than the City proposal.

    Unfortunately there's all the other valid issues like safety and control as popularity rises. What's "better" today can rapidly become "worse" for any number of reasons. (Just think of those people living along popular tube and floating spots where untouched nature rapidly starts looking like a landfill as people dump their trash in the water and along the shoreline.)

  97. #97
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    It will of course cost Millions.
    Less than $2 annually per household.
    Considering we're spending 24mil on a funicular that will get used by almost no one and will probably be out of service 5 months of the year combined, the capital and operating costs for something like this would be much less and by far the biggest bang for the buck in terms of value for dollar received.

  98. #98

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    Yep. And as the watershed is actually the responsibility of the province, EPCOR is not currently getting any funding for watershed monitoring in their standard rate structure, hence the need for the new fee/charge & the new joint effort with the province.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  99. #99
    C2E Long Term Contributor
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    Lovin' all of this beach/river stuff.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  100. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Wrong on all counts. Grew up in Jasper Place in the worst possible area of it and raised by alcoholic parents one with advanced mental health issues. I was a latch key kid that started doing drugs/alcohol at the age of 12 and not bothering to come home and nobody noticed, nobody cared. Older brother was conveniently a drug dealer and biker. So no, not quite privileged..

    Thing is I live in a beautiful Province. My favorite places would be Lake Louise, Moraine Lake, Edith Cavell, Assiniboine Lake, Lake O hara, places like that. Those kinds of places move me and hiking is a lifelong passion. I find my peace there on the trails. Something rare for me to find.

    Well, my sincere apologies then. But don't actively work to begrudge others some pleasures like you are now able to find, in their lives as well.
    You should apologize for your outright condescension, leaps of logic, and reading between the lines. Screw off as well with your snob interpretation. I live In Millwoods, I drive a Hyundai, I've been actively cycling on the same cheap Costco bike for 15yrs. Camping with the same same cheap tent trailer for 20yrs. I'm a Social Worker, not a snob, thanks.



    Go find some other fishing expedition.
    Nope. Reread your own words above. Moreover it's not just the semantics, it's the obvious condescension of your chosen words. You're still a snob.
    We're all snobs in a way, quotation snob, what I objected to was being typecast as a snotty snob.

    jk not meaning to be condescending. Except in one post, the Tom and Huck post that fairly deserved a condescending response.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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