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Thread: Secret downtown beach can be a game-changer for Edmonton

  1. #101

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    Checked out the beach and river yesterday. It was simply amazing, there were hundreds of people flooding down.

    The city needs to find a way to prioritize this as a permanent installment. Even if it does get washed away from time to time with high water, the current flow of the stream should regenerate the beach afterwards. The water quality seems to be good as well: http://saskriverkeeper.ca/?p=1246&

    In terms of safety, there should be some sort of barrier preventing people from going a bit too far out like Red Leaf Beach in Sydney:
    https://goo.gl/images/xpBHxr
    Go down a few dark alleys.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Hey Replacement, I went outside to the beach and took some photos. There was probably 200 people on the beach including babies and dogs.
    I bet you and Gemini didn't have the guts to check out the beach yourself!



    Imagine the nice beach we could have if we engineered a proper beach on the river!
    No, I lack the interest to check it out. I live within 30minutes of Miquelon, would frankly rather go there, or Pigeon Lake or something like that. That said I'm not really a beach person unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast.

    We spent the day cycling from Millwoods to the river valley, U of A, then to Fringe and back. great day, lots of activity, exercise, didn't get sand in everything, didn't have to break my legs trying to negotiate some beach access that is entirely unknown, unmarked and has no facilities anyways.

    Glad people are enjoying it but I can't really see the attraction. I'm with Gem on this. I love Ocean coastal beaches. if you've done a ton of that type of exploration this here beach everybody is talking about isn't all that much.

    If you've hiked the West coast trail and Napali coast line trail like I have its kind of hard to get excited about some mundane beach like this.

    I think more than anything its just become kind of a temporary thing. Not sure why this one is so popular. Several other beaches exist in the river valley and are easy enough to access and there isn't huge crowds at those. This one is even hard to get to, hardly any parking nearby, so I don't really get it.
    Replacement, I cannot believe that you actually went to the river valley but didn't even attempt to go to the water's edge. Not examining your opinion from another perspective gained zero respect from me. Replacement and Gemini, no one likes it when other people telling them how to live.

    I just came back from Seaside, Oregon so I know the kind of beaches you are talking about. Of course, this sandbar doesn't compare but it is a thousand times better than a sandbox with umbrellas in it.
    Not sure why its so important to you that I check out a beach area I have no interest in checking out. We were in the River Valley, yes, but miles from the beach area. Nor would I bring my mountain bike to a sandy area. I look after my bike and I'm careful where I ride it thus it lasting 15years and with the same gears etc.

    Heh, I'll give you further ammunition. I don't like sand, there, I said it. It gets in everything, sticks to everything and is seemingly impossible to get off. It sticks to you like flies. It sticks to anything you own like flies. I could NEVER live in a Dessert.

    If there's a cant't stand sand meme I'm it. Wet sand is the absolute worst.

    Oh wait;

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cart...mc0782_low.jpg
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-08-2017 at 09:38 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  3. #103
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  4. #104

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    Yeah, I knew that one. But I don't like Star Wars...

    Especially beach and dune scenes in Star Wars..

    The Wife; The English patient is so romantic, such a good film.

    Sand grump; But theres all this blasted sand, look at all that sand, it gets in everything..
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-08-2017 at 09:53 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  5. #105
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    Replacement wrote:

    Not sure why its so important to you that I check out a beach area I have no interest in checking out.
    Yeah, I don't quite follow that logic either. If someone says he doesn't want a payday loan place in his neighbourhood, does anyone consider it a credible reply to say "But, but, you haven't even gone to see it!"

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Replacement wrote:

    Not sure why its so important to you that I check out a beach area I have no interest in checking out.
    Yeah, I don't quite follow that logic either. If someone says he doesn't want a payday loan place in his neighbourhood, does anyone consider it a credible reply to say "But, but, you haven't even gone to see it!"
    That's got to be the worst false equivalence on C2E. Comparing an urban beach that is a super positive to the city and its residents to a payday loan shop?

    We get it, some people aren't beach people and think the river valley should be like a museum - just be appreciated as an image, rather than enjoying it. If you're not a beach person or don't think Edmonton has any right having a beach, fine, keep your negative opinions to yourself.

  7. #107

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    How selective is that reply?

    Lets rewind. The title of the thread refers to the beach being a game changer. So in other words hyperbole from the start. Albeit I suspect somebody that calls this "super positive" won't detect the overblown excitement for a sand bar.

    I wasn't aware in anycase this was a pom poms only site.

    Nor is it negative to rightly rebuke comments that the City should be spending money on this. Its actually positive feedback as it pertains to fiscal sensibility.

    Next, you respond to false equivalency by making one. The idea that people think the River Valley should be a museum. I've probably spent more time in the River Valley and trail network than 80% of this board. I've posted positively about that in the past in frequent posts.

    In anycase its the rampant hyperbole that attracts reply to this thread as titles often do. Gamechanger? lol This is as tenuous an attraction as the grains of sand on that *beach*.

    Clapping like seals for something so mundane (Hi KC) makes Edmonton look like a farce. Anybody visiting this site would think we're hard up for attractions or things to do or places to visit.

    Oh look its wet sand, seagull ****, stinking rotting weeds or something else...oh look what I stepped in now..
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-08-2017 at 11:51 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Hey Replacement, I went outside to the beach and took some photos. There was probably 200 people on the beach including babies and dogs.
    I bet you and Gemini didn't have the guts to check out the beach yourself!



    Imagine the nice beach we could have if we engineered a proper beach on the river!
    No, I lack the interest to check it out. I live within 30minutes of Miquelon, would frankly rather go there, or Pigeon Lake or something like that. That said I'm not really a beach person unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast.

    We spent the day cycling from Millwoods to the river valley, U of A, then to Fringe and back. great day, lots of activity, exercise, didn't get sand in everything, didn't have to break my legs trying to negotiate some beach access that is entirely unknown, unmarked and has no facilities anyways.

    Glad people are enjoying it but I can't really see the attraction. I'm with Gem on this. I love Ocean coastal beaches. if you've done a ton of that type of exploration this here beach everybody is talking about isn't all that much.

    If you've hiked the West coast trail and Napali coast line trail like I have its kind of hard to get excited about some mundane beach like this.

    I think more than anything its just become kind of a temporary thing. Not sure why this one is so popular. Several other beaches exist in the river valley and are easy enough to access and there isn't huge crowds at those. This one is even hard to get to, hardly any parking nearby, so I don't really get it.

    "I'm not really a beach person"

    "unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast

    "Glad people are enjoying it but I can't really see the attraction."

    "I'm with Gem on this. I love Ocean coastal beaches."

    "didn't get sand in everything, didn't have to break my legs trying to negotiate some beach access that is entirely unknown, unmarked and has no facilities anyways. "

    "its kind of hard to get excited about some mundane beach like this."



    "I'm not really a beach person" No kidding. Or, it actually sounds more like: 'I'm not really a beach person. Not unless it meets my standards that is. ' i.e. as in: "unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast"


    I also get the sense that you didn't build sand castles as a kid either.

    However, I do get the impression that you had a privileged upbringing, and that has raised your standards so high that you just can't hear of any proposals that are beneath you. Those that the less lucky in life might just get to enjoy. Many families and many kids in Edmonton will get little chance to see those coastal beaches you and Gem set as your minimum standards for being worthy of your attendance.


    FYI: From the Free Dictionary (below):

    "snob (snŏb)
    n.
    1. One who despises, ignores, or is patronizing to those he or she considers inferior.
    2. One who is convinced of his or her superiority in matters of taste or intellect. "

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/snob


    mundane Love it. mundane mundane mundane


    By the way, I know people that have had what I'd call extremely privileged upbringings. Why is it that with some them, I'm certain - you - would never know it?
    I've had a privileged upbringing. Hahahaha, well I guess I have as I am loved by my family and friends and that's what matters. What a crappy analogize in regards to beaches. A person could spend a good few hours on the real beach and actually learn something. Some beaches are cleaner then others so therefor better to sunbathe on. If your a young kid and you don't just want to spend hours wedged in a chair there is no end to collecting shells, pieces of driftwood or just even feeling the waves around your feet. In every way imaginable and next to the real deal the C of E has a faux beach. Does that make me a snob for stating this.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  9. #109

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    We'll have none of that snobbery here, get with the times. this here wet sandbar is a game changer, the best thing that ever happened, a miracle, divine intervention, its super positive, its technicolor, its...

    Its sandy dogshit by now.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  10. #110

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    We'll have none of that snobbery here, get with the times. this here wet sandbar is a game changer, the best thing that ever happened, a miracle, divine intervention, its super positive, its technicolor, its...

    Its sandy dogshit by now.

    Or is that dogshit..

    hey, I can swear here in compoundswearpissshitcrapwords

    Wheres the washrooms?

    I keep editing and adding..
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-08-2017 at 12:02 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  11. #111

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    ^It's iconic......................
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  12. #112

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    ^World class beach....

    Must visit, 12 reviews, 4.9 stars, higher rating than Waikiki..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  13. #113
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    Don't get all the negativity. Yeah, love to be Maui too (in January). BUT, there's the small matter of flights, oh and accommodation, etc.

    This beach, I can get to in 15 minutes, enjoy a sunny, gorgeous day with a killer view of the skyline, for what? a buck, maybe $2.60 by transit?

    Sadly, I think it'll be temporary and get washed out soon as the berm put in for LRT construction is removed.
    ... gobsmacked

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Sadly, I think it'll be temporary and get washed out soon as the berm put in for LRT construction is removed.
    With all the popularity, I imagine they won't remove the berm. It costs money to remove it, so the city saves and gets a feature park.
    The negativity is hard to fathom. I guess it's just a hold over of the 'aww shucks edmonton' movement. Where people would go along with the 'but it's edmonton' punch line, and even believe it and teach it to their kids. Imagine growing up in a city you find fun, along with your friends, but have parents who aren't proud of it (save for sports teams) and agree with everyone who puts it down. We don't deserve this, we don't deserve a nice downtown, it's just Edmonton, etc etc. What kind of parenting is that? I hate where I live, I'm not willing to check out new things and try and change my perspective of the city, but I'm also too lazy and weak to move somewhere else.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    We'll have none of that snobbery here, get with the times. this here wet sandbar is a game changer, the best thing that ever happened, a miracle, divine intervention, its super positive, its technicolor, its...

    Its sandy dogshit by now.

    Or is that dogshit..

    hey, I can swear here in compoundswearpissshitcrapwords

    Wheres the washrooms?

    I keep editing and adding..
    testfuckshitassholeloseridiottest

  16. #116
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    ^^ Agree on all counts Meds - just that to make the berm permanent will require federal environmental approval - not a given.
    ... gobsmacked

  17. #117
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    Perhaps there could be an environmental assessment done on the beach.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Sadly, I think it'll be temporary and get washed out soon as the berm put in for LRT construction is removed.
    With all the popularity, I imagine they won't remove the berm. It costs money to remove it, so the city saves and gets a feature park.
    The negativity is hard to fathom. I guess it's just a hold over of the 'aww shucks edmonton' movement. Where people would go along with the 'but it's edmonton' punch line, and even believe it and teach it to their kids. Imagine growing up in a city you find fun, along with your friends, but have parents who aren't proud of it (save for sports teams) and agree with everyone who puts it down. We don't deserve this, we don't deserve a nice downtown, it's just Edmonton, etc etc. What kind of parenting is that? I hate where I live, I'm not willing to check out new things and try and change my perspective of the city, but I'm also too lazy and weak to move somewhere else.
    Oh my, you sure read a lot of what's not there in some peoples posts. Have you every thought of taking up writing fiction novels or even psychic readings. Looks like there could be a career in it for you.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  19. #119

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    New Edmonton 'accidental beach' lacks facilities for deluge of sudden sunbathers - Edmonton - CBC News



    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/e...city-1.4265651



    Popularity of Edmonton's 'accidental beach' stumps council
    Excerpt:
    "The sandy beach, created unintentionally on the North Saskatchewan River this summer by LRT construction, has been packed in recent weeks – but one councillor said its growing popularity is becoming a problem.
    “I gather over the weekend it sort of got out of hand,” Coun. Ben Henderson said Monday.
    “I’m getting complaints now from some people who live close by that there were lots of people down there and no place to park, and safety issues and noise and partying and things like that.”




    http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/news...s-council.html

    I think to some degree the idea of an Edmonton beach being desirable, is passing a proof of concept test.

    Proof of concept - Wikipedia

    Proof of Concept (PoC) is a realization of a certain method or idea in order to demonstrate its feasibility,[1] or a demonstration in principle with the aim of verifying that some concept or theory has practical potential.[citation needed] A proof of concept is usually small and may or may not be complete.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_concept
    Note: I love the irony in: "citation needed".
    Last edited by KC; 28-08-2017 at 07:15 PM.

  20. #120

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    Predictable.

    First thing I stated is where are all these people parking. Obviously without even a thought to the neighborhood or that people live there. Next where do they go to the bathroom, where do they put litter, etc.

    Predictable as well that noise and partying took place so quickly in an out view kind of site that isn't monitored in anyway. This would be a dangerous place to be late at night for any number of reasons.

    As per proof of concept this is a flash mob beach. That's essentially whats going on right now. People enthused with this sandbar with the typical aplomb that befits all social media new best happenings and a month from now maybe 20 people will be there, regardless of weather, if that haven't shut the place down by now.


    But jk aside this is a firm part of the resistance, that I don't want the city paying for what token flash mob place to be is on a given day or week or month. This is not a viable attraction on an ongoing basis, jmo, and I think a lot longer period of patronage would be required to "proof" that.

    That said if its next year and 500 people are headed out to the beach then I could see the need for something like this, but not ideally in that area.

    Just another aside but this is exactly the type of thing that suddenly pits neighbor against neighbor. Some would not like that this apparent attraction has suddenly surfaced and some would like it. Doesn't mean good or bad people. I don't know I'd want a party suddenly going on all the time just across the backalley because somebody discovered a pokemon hiding spot..
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-08-2017 at 07:31 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  21. #121

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    ps the "nannystate" and why can't we have nice things crying has already started. But essentially because they're always be screw-ups that wreck something like this for everybody. As one letter to the editor stated 2 weeks ago better to completely have kept this a secret rather than communicating it so thoroughly.

    After perusing the latest I doubt this isn't roped off within the next week or two.

    I will comment however on the many people that evidently did at least attempt to take garbage out but that's a half *** effort. As a backcountry enthusiast you pack your garbage out. You don't pile it around a garbage container at trail head like these people did. Your responsibility to remove your garbage after visiting an unauthorized/unserviced site or region does not end there. You packed the food in, clearly its feasible to pack the garbage out. Its pure disregard not to. Nor is it the cities responsibility, imo to provide extra service in removing garbage that did not arise consistent with what the minipark is. When does personal responsibility ever kick in?

    As per foodtrucks in the area what a ridiculous idea. No place to park them, no washrooms to service the latent part of consumption.
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-08-2017 at 07:45 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  22. #122

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    It's an unintended consequence of bridge construction so I agree that it's potentially very problematic including potentially hazardous and potentially financially costly.

    Nonetheless its novelty or its intrinsic quality is clearly attracting people, and media attention so it's worthy of some consideration to determine any lasting real value and any such potential for the city. It may be worth retaining (no pun intended) for a year or two to scope out the proof of concept regarding any hoped for retention or re-creation elsewhere, or the creation of a safe, acceptable and totally artificial 'beach' somewhere beside the river. In other words: it is there so learn from it.

    No matter what it's great that many Edmontonians are discovering some river valley attributes.
    Last edited by KC; 28-08-2017 at 07:51 PM.

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ps the "nannystate" and why can't we have nice things crying has already started. But essentially because they're always be screw-ups that wreck something like this for everybody. As one letter to the editor stated 2 weeks ago better to completely have kept this a secret rather than communicating it so thoroughly.

    After perusing the latest I doubt this isn't roped off within the next week or two.

    I will comment however on the many people that evidently did at least attempt to take garbage out but that's a half *** effort. As a backcountry enthusiast you pack your garbage out. You don't pile it around a garbage container at trail head like these people did. Your responsibility to remove your garbage after visiting an unauthorized/unserviced site or region does not end there. You packed the food in, clearly its feasible to pack the garbage out. Its pure disregard not to. Nor is it the cities responsibility, imo to provide extra service in removing garbage that did not arise consistent with what the minipark is. When does personal responsibility ever kick in?

    As per foodtrucks in the area what a ridiculous idea. No place to park them, no washrooms to service the latent part of consumption.
    Go downtown after fireworks etc. A few years back I happened to drive through the Leg grounds 'the next day' and there was an incredible amount of garbage strewn everywhere. Horrible but it's the cost of popularity.

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    It's an unintended consequence of bridge construction so I agree that it's potentially very problematic including potentially hazardous and potentially financially costly.

    Nonetheless its novelty or its intrinsic quality is clearly attracting people, and media attention so it's worthy of some consideration to determine any lasting real value and any such potential for the city. It may be worth retaining (no pun intended) for a year or two to scope out the proof of concept regarding any hoped for retention or re-creation elsewhere, or the creation of a safe, acceptable and totally artificial 'beach' somewhere beside the river. In other words: it is there so learn from it.

    No matter what it's great that many Edmontonians are discovering some river valley attributes.
    Theres a lot of unfortunate aspects to the present beach location. Namely that it is in a compressed location bordered immediately by a main road and Multidwellings close by. It would be impossible for the city to put up adequate infrastructure in that immediate area. It just isn't feasible. Those are also premium units in the area. For sure the residents aren't going to want a series of portapotties in the area now should they reasonably be expected to put up with that.

    But the argument for a city beach, maintained, on the river valley may be launched but a question as to if it was setup in a different location would people actually go to it. Theres a key part of this discovered beach being popular because it was not manmade, that it occurred somewhat naturally, and to some degree unexpectedly. Its part of the appeal of this beach that it was spuriously induced. See what I mean?

    So would the same people use a beach that was man made, that did have services, parking, etc. I can't escape that the appeal to this one was due to the discovered nature described.

    In anycase in the article the resident is immediately clamoring the COE should put a bunch of garbage receptacles out there etc and people here have claimed already there should be built steps to it, portapotties etc.
    This is where fiscal want for responsibility intervenes. I won't sit by as people clamor for there to be funding for infrastructure for spurious things in which the patronage isn't even established. Flash mob gatherings are one thing. Flash infrastructure? Forget about it.
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-08-2017 at 08:24 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ps the "nannystate" and why can't we have nice things crying has already started. But essentially because they're always be screw-ups that wreck something like this for everybody. As one letter to the editor stated 2 weeks ago better to completely have kept this a secret rather than communicating it so thoroughly.

    After perusing the latest I doubt this isn't roped off within the next week or two.

    I will comment however on the many people that evidently did at least attempt to take garbage out but that's a half *** effort. As a backcountry enthusiast you pack your garbage out. You don't pile it around a garbage container at trail head like these people did. Your responsibility to remove your garbage after visiting an unauthorized/unserviced site or region does not end there. You packed the food in, clearly its feasible to pack the garbage out. Its pure disregard not to. Nor is it the cities responsibility, imo to provide extra service in removing garbage that did not arise consistent with what the minipark is. When does personal responsibility ever kick in?

    As per foodtrucks in the area what a ridiculous idea. No place to park them, no washrooms to service the latent part of consumption.
    Go downtown after fireworks etc. A few years back I happened to drive through the Leg grounds 'the next day' and there was an incredible amount of garbage strewn everywhere. Horrible but it's the cost of popularity.
    Present day cost seemingly.

    It is odd that in an age of increased recycling that we also have increased litter. Albeit over packaged products has greatly contributed to this malaise.

    In anycase theres a disconnect from the notion of recycling. The present notion is at home do it. But when not at home do whatever with it. Thus my post above in which I call out those that do not pack garbage out. If a backcountry hiker can pack garbage out and take it with them for 3 days clearly people blocks away from their car, or bus stop, or home can do it.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  26. #126
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    I parked at the Muttart when I went on Saturday. No problem at all.

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    If the LRT was built at water level, there wouldn't be the problem of a beach.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  28. #128

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    ^^ Exactly, there are lots of parking options that aren't on the street including the parking for the Edmonton Queen (which is not being used because of the City's inability to provide the investor permits).

    Also, in a couple of years, the Muttart station will be open... providing a perfect transit option to the beach. The transit and parking issues on the streets directly affected can easily be mitigated with resident only parking signs.

    When life gives you lemons... you make lemonade and take it to the new beach.
    Go down a few dark alleys.

  29. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnugent View Post
    ^^ Exactly, there are lots of parking options that aren't on the street including the parking for the Edmonton Queen (which is not being used because of the City's inability to provide the investor permits).

    Also, in a couple of years, the Muttart station will be open... providing a perfect transit option to the beach. The transit and parking issues on the streets directly affected can easily be mitigated with resident only parking signs.

    When life gives you lemons... you make lemonade and take it to the new beach.
    Great points!

    Other than dealing with some safety (via signage) and other issues the great thing here is that doing nothing, saving money on the full removal of the berm only seems to lead to a better situation. (I'm assuming that the berm isn't a big threat in some other way or that any such threat could also be mitigated. Moreover rivers have a wide range of conditions so this berm's impact shouldn't be anything highly unpredictable.)

  30. #130

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    The Muttart parking is for Muttart Patrons who pay admission to see the Muttart conservatory. Its clearly marked as Muttart Conservatory parking. The Riverboat Queen parking area is similarly demarked as private parking and a tow away zone. The rest of the area is fairly densely populated and with not much street parking available in the area and afairc on some streets demarked residents only, in the area.

    The only park parking that was in the area is now utilized for the LRT bridge construction and is not available. There used to be about 25 stalls there. 2hr limit afairc.

    So I'm not sure why these false options are being recommended for parking to visit the discovered beach area.
    Last edited by Replacement; 29-08-2017 at 10:14 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  31. #131

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    The Muttart parking is for Muttart Patrons who pay admission to see the Muttart conservatory.
    It's also a parking lot for the parks in the area. There is no restrictions saying only for Muttart Patrons. It's a city of Edmonton parking lot in a city of Edmonton Park. The Edmonton Queen parking lot is also a city of Edmonton parking lot, and is not exclusive use parking for the Edmonton Queen.

    There's also tons of parking up at the Edmonton ski hill. Again, it's primary purpose is for the ski hill, but is not exclusive use.
    Last edited by Medwards; 29-08-2017 at 10:19 AM.

  32. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    The Muttart parking is for Muttart Patrons who pay admission to see the Muttart conservatory.
    It's also a parking lot for the parks in the area. There is no restrictions saying only for Muttart Patrons. It's a city of Edmonton parking lot in a city of Edmonton Park. The Edmonton Queen parking lot is also a city of Edmonton parking lot, and is not exclusive use parking for the Edmonton Queen.

    There's also tons of parking up at the Edmonton ski hill. Again, it's primary purpose is for the ski hill, but is not exclusive use.
    Pretty sure the Edmonton Queen parking site had signs stating unauthorized users would be towed. I've even seen security there tell people NOT to be parking there if not using the Edmonton Queen when it was operating. The Edmonton Queen site is marked clearly as "no parking, private property" as per google street view. Not sure if that has changed since.

    Muttart parking, in addition to clearly being demarked as "Muttart Conservatory Parking" also has the precautionary COE "Private parking, unauthorized vehicles may be tagged and towed at owners expense" and also has time restrictions on it.

    So these seem to be restricted.

    How would one know that these are not exclusive use?
    Last edited by Replacement; 29-08-2017 at 10:43 AM.
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  33. #133
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    Saskatoon beach on South Saskatchewan:

    https://www.google.ca/amp/thestarpho...be-managed/amp
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  34. #134
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  35. #135

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    Gooseshit lake (aka Wascana Lake)... I wouldn't even... I mean...ewwww... Not in a million.... surprised they didn't find a pile o bones.... would not swim..... 0/7. Nasty

  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Saskatoon beach on South Saskatchewan:

    https://www.google.ca/amp/thestarpho...be-managed/amp
    The article features illogic. For instance citing that just because a group of students were able to swim across it inherently means the river is safe, or means anything at all. It may mean that its not the case that if you try to swim the river "you're gonna die" but such precaution, even with hyperbole, exists to dissuade people from attempting to swim the river. Its not a disservice, and its not hurting anybody, to overstate the risk.
    HOWEVER, when you start to minimize the risk more accidents can and will occur. When people start suggesting the river is safe more tragedies will occur.

    Next. any river is a variable body of water. With difficulty level of course changing with flooding or time of the year or other hazards.

    The next bit of illogic is a common one. That everything in life is risky, driving, everything. But that shouldn't mean you don't mitigate risk if you are interested in self preservation or protection of others. The counter is that it would be safer to look at the river than BE in the river. That is the flip side, to be in, or not to be in. People desensitize risk by stating such things as everything in life is risky, could die walking across the street etc..That's not a logical reason to induce further risk regularly in your life.

    Another debatable point in the article is whether humans are innately good at assessing risks. The author makes that assertion, I'm not sure why. Its a tenuous point.

    Finally, as per this thread the South Saskatchewan river is not the North Saskatchewan river which would be much harder to swim across any time of the year and impossible at some times.
    Last edited by Replacement; 30-08-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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  37. #137

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    Another strong point needs to be made, and is featured in one of the comments in the article, that sandbars on rivers are not necessarily as stable as they may appear. The sandbar could disappear as quickly as it formed but could also break up, part of it could collapse, segment, etc, and with people on it. This being a possibility. Just because something seems like strong, stable doesn't mean it is. Its a sandbar, and especially in swift running current it could be impacted. Also could be logs, debris in the river running through that can be dangerous obstacles.

    Contrary to the article humans do not assess risk properly. They generalize. People going on the beach today will probably go on the beach in May whether or not its advisable or not. That sandbar is partly or totally submerged, or subject to being, and the river will be a lot riskier at that time. But will all people make that distinction?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  38. #138

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    Just look at current river use. People don't go on any of our existing sand bars when they're submerged and water is flowing fast. People don't boat on the river in those conditions either, and a set of stairs down to the water level wouldn't change that.

    That said, while I will enjoy the beach while it's here I'm not optimistic that it would remain a nice beach if the berm were maintained. The river will shift, next year could bring muddy silt, and eventually it will become overgrown. That's the way it is with a river. Next year's high water won't be the same as this year's, so it won't be dropping out the same size particles at the same places.
    There can only be one.

  39. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Just look at current river use. People don't go on any of our existing sand bars when they're submerged and water is flowing fast. People don't boat on the river in those conditions either, and a set of stairs down to the water level wouldn't change that.

    That said, while I will enjoy the beach while it's here I'm not optimistic that it would remain a nice beach if the berm were maintained. The river will shift, next year could bring muddy silt, and eventually it will become overgrown. That's the way it is with a river. Next year's high water won't be the same as this year's, so it won't be dropping out the same size particles at the same places.
    People DO boat and go on the river when its flowing fast. This actually occurs. Maybe SOME people or less people go but some have seeming difficulty distinguishing. Then you have a large segment of adventurers or people "very skilled" in kayaking or canoing that will intentionally take the river when it is more challenging. This happened even this spring.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  40. #140

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    People go downhill skiing at many kilometres per hour, occasionally injuring and even killing themselves. Ski hills will close if there's an avalanche hazard, and anyone who's foolish enough to still ski is taking their life into their own hands. How is that different from people enjoying the river for a swim? We can close the water when the river is going too fast, and if anyone still swims, they're taking their life into their hands. People can go swimming from any number of places in the river; you can't stop it anyways.

    I haven't been down yet, but I definitely want to check it out. Assuming it passes environmental muster, it shouldn't be too hard to take the material in the berms for the bridge construction and build a permanent earthen jetty. Heck, it would even save on carbon emissions, since you wouldn't need to use trucks to haul the material away. Having the jetty would allow the sand to re-accumulate should it get washed away during spring flooding, and the harbour it would create would help slow the river in the section for safe swimming during the times of the year the river is overall slower. Plus you could put a path on the top of the jetty to allow people to fish from it. And if anyone doesn't like sand or beaches, they don't have to come

  41. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    The beach is excellent.
    The use has been incredible. Lots of families out using it, kids in the water with parents.
    Dragon boats, kayaks, canoes and a beach full of people having a great time.
    It was like a different City the way people were out interacting with the river.
    That was my exact thoughts when I checked it out earlier this week. When we were walking along the dirt bike trail to get to the east end of the beach, there must have been 25+ other people with us walking there, all complete strangers, everyone so interested in this nifty pop-up beach. I actually commented to the people I was with how cool just that experience was. We got there around 7:30 pm and there must have been easily still 150+ people on the beach. Just awesome to see everyone out and about and enjoying our beautiful river in the heart of Edmonton.

    I have my doubts that it will be there next summer, so I'm certainly glad I got to experience it while it was there. Hoping to drop by there later this weekend, I'm sure it'll be a bumpin' place if the weather is nice this long weekend.
    East of the Rockies, and west of the rest!

  42. #142
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    The garbage left behind, beyond disgusting. How funny there is nowhere to park, and the cars just keep on coming LOL

  43. #143

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    People, as in the public, tend to trash everything nature. It's sad but that's how it goes. However I'm glad that this beach's popularity will completely quash a lot of the negative arguments that Edmontonians wouldn't even consider going to an artificial beach in our city.


    10 years ago:


    Build a large artificial "beach" in the River Valley

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...e-River-Valley


    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Excellent.

    Actually, maybe two areas should be considered. One just for sand next to the water (a lot of the people I see sitting on beaches when camping and travelling never actually do go into the water anyway) and another area that creates a swimming / multi-purpose area. The first, since it wouldn't involve weirs, dams, regulatory approvals, etc, would be an initial a low cost - "just do it" approach to getting people down to - and onto - the water. Those users would then become supporters for Plan "B" - something with far broader appeal like you're suggesting.


    The running water is an issue - just don't put sand down to the water's edge - keep it back a ways. But put tons and tons of it where people will use it. If need be, use rubber, concrete or something going out into the water a few feet. Hopefully somethign that can be removed at the end of the season. I'm not sure you want people swimming in the river water anyway - all kinds of issues attach to that idea. I'd say focus on canoes, rafts, etc. if anything at all.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    Summers are short but the days are VERY long.


    Why not capitalize on our strengths and give people as many options as possible to encourage them to spend some of their holiday time here rather than abroad. Or take days off to enjoy around our own city rather than banking holidays to spend their time and savings in other places. We need to offer many more worthwhile facilities to make our own city a dynamic place to stay.

    Moreover, one of the arguments for the whopping $250-million dollar overpass is 'avoiding' a negative image in the eyes of tourists!!! If that is a reasonable rationale how could this - which would require a small, small fraction of that amount - not be considered reasonable?
    True, the days are long, and this summer is beauitful. I wonder if the beach at Summerside might not be a model as to what could be acheived. Not sure I would want to swim in the River though (I doubt it is that warm), a nice beach might be enough.
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I'd say - start by just keep it very simple - but make it large enough to give it enough of a presence to seem natural and thus attract users.

    A large but cheap "artificial beach" would test the potential popularity with plans for outdoor pools, sprayparks for toddlers, etc. as stages II, III, IV... or as sponsored River Valley Enhancement Projects. (ie I could see generous individuals or corporations readily sponsoring a river valley spray park for kids due to it's 'centrality'. Something this city often lacks in terms of sponsorship possibilities.)

    Initially, maybe even ban river swimming (encourage canoeing instead) to avoid any liability to the City or any obligation to hire multiple shifts of lifeguards. I can see the headline - City Creates Deathpool... If the plan is too grande you'd get too much dissention, too much hassle, needs for all kinds of studies. It will never get 'ON the ground' - all for just a bunch of sand for people to lay on and play on to make Edmonton's summers more enjoyable.
    Last edited by KC; 31-08-2017 at 12:22 AM.

  44. #144
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    Ustauk wrote:

    if anyone still swims, they're taking their life into their hands. People can go swimming from any number of places in the river; you can't stop it anyways.

    Yes, but if this beach becomes an officially designated thing, then the city is going to be assuming a certain liability for anything that goes wrong there. That's why they're likely gonna have to be bringing in lifeguards, just for starters.
    Last edited by overoceans; 31-08-2017 at 05:38 AM.

  45. #145

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    Ya I don't think lifeguards will be coming in. There's dangerous beaches up and down any coast, but you don't see lifeguards. A simple "use at your own risk, no lifeguards" sign at the entrances should suffice.

  46. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Ya I don't think lifeguards will be coming in. There's dangerous beaches up and down any coast, but you don't see lifeguards. A simple "use at your own risk, no lifeguards" sign at the entrances should suffice.
    Yeah, we have lakes, ponds, rivers and even ditches with drowning risks. Then there's the thin ice risks.

    We also have trails and groomed river banks with steep banks just a few metres away, and very few signs.

    We have sidewalks everywhere with fast moving vehicle traffic and potential death literally just an arms length reach away. Does every block have a sidewalk warning sign? No of course not. Common sense is an expectation.

    Do we have a lot of people right now blindly going down to the river to swim? No. People can see the moving water and so see the risk. Plus, people just have to watch the many dogs swimming along the shoreline to see what's going on with currents.

    Here, a couple warning signs should be enough. Like in the parks; 'Don't feed the bears, because you might die if you do' warnings should be enough to wake up people to the risks.
    Last edited by KC; 31-08-2017 at 08:27 AM.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Ya I don't think lifeguards will be coming in. There's dangerous beaches up and down any coast, but you don't see lifeguards. A simple "use at your own risk, no lifeguards" sign at the entrances should suffice.
    So, the government will have no involvement with this beach, beyond putting up those signs? What exactly is it, then, that people are asking the government to do here?

  48. #148

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    People are asking to setup proper access, and find a solution to keep this beach after the construction berms for the LRT bridge are removed.

    Some people would like to see better parking, temporary or permanent bathrooms, more garbage cans.

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Ya I don't think lifeguards will be coming in. There's dangerous beaches up and down any coast, but you don't see lifeguards. A simple "use at your own risk, no lifeguards" sign at the entrances should suffice.
    So, the government will have no involvement with this beach, beyond putting up those signs? What exactly is it, then, that people are asking the government to do here?
    To do enough to make it reasonably safe and enjoyable and to NOT remove the berm according to the original plan until unless they need to.

    In the interim I think people want the government to study the popularity and viability and costs of keeping such a hybrid, quasi man-made-natural--accidental beach.

    Keeping it and avoiding removing the rock might be a very cost effective, cost saving option. Don't spend the millions on trucking out Rick and instead spend a few thousands on turning this into a city 'attraction'.

    We brought the lemons (boulders), and nature made lemonade. Let's enjoy it if we can.

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    Okay, so if I've got this straight...

    The government is supposed to do all this(keep the berm, parking, bathrooms etc), all the while maintaining the official position(via the "Swim At Your Own Risk" signs) that they don't want anyone to actually go in the water.

    Therefore, in the event of someone meeting a serious misfortune while being in the water, the government's legal stance will be "We never intended for anyone to go in the water, just to hang around on the sand. We even put up signs. So don't sue us."

    That's basically the gist of it?

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Okay, so if I've got this straight...

    The government is supposed to do all this(keep the berm, parking, bathrooms etc), all the while maintaining the official position(via the "Swim At Your Own Risk" signs) that they don't want anyone to actually go in the water.

    Therefore, in the event of someone meeting a serious misfortune while being in the water, the government's legal stance will be "We never intended for anyone to go in the water, just to hang around on the sand. We even put up signs. So don't sue us."

    That's basically the gist of it?
    You make it sound like this is some groundbreaking, world-first concept. It's done all over the world where people access the water.

  52. #152
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    Don't want to "douse" anyone's hopes, but not taking out the berm that created this happy accident, will only save the contractor money, not the city. The entire project is a fixed price P3 deal.

    (Hence some of the city's reluctance to change any part of the agreed upon route - for better or worse)
    ... gobsmacked

  53. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Okay, so if I've got this straight...

    The government is supposed to do all this(keep the berm, parking, bathrooms etc), all the while maintaining the official position(via the "Swim At Your Own Risk" signs) that they don't want anyone to actually go in the water.

    Therefore, in the event of someone meeting a serious misfortune while being in the water, the government's legal stance will be "We never intended for anyone to go in the water, just to hang around on the sand. We even put up signs. So don't sue us."

    That's basically the gist of it?
    You make it sound like this is some groundbreaking, world-first concept. It's done all over the world where people access the water.
    Lawsuits have been filed the world over for drowning deaths on even natural bodies of water and naming Cities, Provinces, districts as defendants. A lot of them sound as spurious as this one;

    The river didn't look dangerous;

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...rrie-1.3163095

    or this;

    http://www.thedailyjournal.com/story...ity/506320001/

    just as example. The citations of lawsuits are endless.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Okay, so if I've got this straight...

    The government is supposed to do all this(keep the berm, parking, bathrooms etc), all the while maintaining the official position(via the "Swim At Your Own Risk" signs) that they don't want anyone to actually go in the water.

    Therefore, in the event of someone meeting a serious misfortune while being in the water, the government's legal stance will be "We never intended for anyone to go in the water, just to hang around on the sand. We even put up signs. So don't sue us."

    That's basically the gist of it?
    You make it sound like this is some groundbreaking, world-first concept. It's done all over the world where people access the water.
    Yes, but my question is what degree of involvement the city can have in facilitating the beach, before they have to assume legal liability for something going wrong.

  55. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Ya I don't think lifeguards will be coming in. There's dangerous beaches up and down any coast, but you don't see lifeguards. A simple "use at your own risk, no lifeguards" sign at the entrances should suffice.
    Yeah, we have lakes, ponds, rivers and even ditches with drowning risks. Then there's the thin ice risks.

    We also have trails and groomed river banks with steep banks just a few metres away, and very few signs.

    We have sidewalks everywhere with fast moving vehicle traffic and potential death literally just an arms length reach away. Does every block have a sidewalk warning sign? No of course not. Common sense is an expectation.

    Do we have a lot of people right now blindly going down to the river to swim? No. People can see the moving water and so see the risk. Plus, people just have to watch the many dogs swimming along the shoreline to see what's going on with currents.

    Here, a couple warning signs should be enough. Like in the parks; 'Don't feed the bears, because you might die if you do' warnings should be enough to wake up people to the risks.
    Unfortunately a lot of people don't heed warnings. I should imagine if the C of E did decide to put better access to that beach it probably would get used a lot more. Then maybe teens going there late at night to party etc. After a few drinks I should imagine the water would look pretty inviting. Something happens there is bound to be some parents blaming the city for encouraging people to be there. Say it's a dangerous area and should be blocked off etc. Yes, we all know people should be responsible for their own actions but it's all good fun until someone gets hurt then the law suits begin.
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  56. #156
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    Go worry about something else in your bubble. Sheesh, I cannot believe people are nitpicking such things. There are boat ramps and dog parks that go right down to the water in the city. Kids have bush parties in the river valley all the time. Somehow the CoE hasn't been bankrupted from lawsuits.

  57. #157

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    What can I say. Life's a beach and then you marry one.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Kids have bush parties in the river valley all the time. Somehow the CoE hasn't been bankrupted from lawsuits.
    Are you sure that's a comparison you want to be making? Assuming those are the same kind of bush parties that were held when I was in high school, they are ILLEGAL, what with the public(and often underage) consumption of alcohol, just foir starters. And if it ever happened that the city did anything whatsoever to encourage a bush party, and one of the kids so much as got hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, I think the municipal government would have a swakload of legal problems on their hands.

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Kids have bush parties in the river valley all the time. Somehow the CoE hasn't been bankrupted from lawsuits.
    Are you sure that's a comparison you want to be making? Assuming those are the same kind of bush parties that were held when I was in high school, they are ILLEGAL, what with the public(and often underage) consumption of alcohol, just foir starters. And if it ever happened that the city did anything whatsoever to encourage a bush party, and one of the kids so much as got hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, I think the municipal government would have a swakload of legal problems on their hands.
    Go to a whiteboard.
    Get out a marker.
    Write out where your argument started.
    Follow all the useless 'facts' and fears you've thrown out
    Try to make it to the comparison you're making right now.
    Step back and look at the trainwreck that your discussion has become.
    Go to the chalkboard and compare it to all the other trainwrecks you've managed to create on here.

    Delete your account from C2E.
    Go back to yelling at kids to get off your lawn.

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    Well, you were the one who brought up the bush party, which is how we got to "the comparison [I'm] making right now". So I'm not sure what your objection is here.

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    I think it would be nice to have a couple of access points to the beach from the bike trails.

    I'm sure that food trucks and kiosks could set up nearby to sell food.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  62. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Kids have bush parties in the river valley all the time. Somehow the CoE hasn't been bankrupted from lawsuits.
    Are you sure that's a comparison you want to be making? Assuming those are the same kind of bush parties that were held when I was in high school, they are ILLEGAL, what with the public(and often underage) consumption of alcohol, just foir starters. And if it ever happened that the city did anything whatsoever to encourage a bush party, and one of the kids so much as got hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, I think the municipal government would have a swakload of legal problems on their hands.
    Go to a whiteboard.
    Get out a marker.
    Write out where your argument started.
    Follow all the useless 'facts' and fears you've thrown out
    Try to make it to the comparison you're making right now.
    Step back and look at the trainwreck that your discussion has become.
    Go to the chalkboard and compare it to all the other trainwrecks you've managed to create on here.

    Delete your account from C2E.
    Go back to yelling at kids to get off your lawn.
    Exhibit A of not having a valid reply. What an incredibly idiotic post.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Let's face it, liability is usually dressed up as safety.

    Something happens on that beach, more than likely there will be a lawsuit against the city, regardless of what any of us think. You can always hire the lawyer, and said lawyer will believe he can net a tasty profit, even when the signs say "swim at your own risk". As we know, there's very little personal responsibility anymore.
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  64. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Kids have bush parties in the river valley all the time. Somehow the CoE hasn't been bankrupted from lawsuits.
    Are you sure that's a comparison you want to be making? Assuming those are the same kind of bush parties that were held when I was in high school, they are ILLEGAL, what with the public(and often underage) consumption of alcohol, just foir starters. And if it ever happened that the city did anything whatsoever to encourage a bush party, and one of the kids so much as got hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, I think the municipal government would have a swakload of legal problems on their hands.
    Go to a whiteboard.
    Get out a marker.
    Write out where your argument started.
    Follow all the useless 'facts' and fears you've thrown out
    Try to make it to the comparison you're making right now.
    Step back and look at the trainwreck that your discussion has become.
    Go to the chalkboard and compare it to all the other trainwrecks you've managed to create on here.

    Delete your account from C2E.
    Go back to yelling at kids to get off your lawn.
    Exhibit A of not having a valid reply. What an incredibly idiotic post.
    I dont know about you, but it gave me a giggle in the office, which caused someone to look at me and wonder what was up.

  65. #165

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    When I look at the sand on that faux beach it makes me want to itch.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  66. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Let's face it, liability is usually dressed up as safety.

    Something happens on that beach, more than likely there will be a lawsuit against the city, regardless of what any of us think. You can always hire the lawyer, and said lawyer will believe he can net a tasty profit, even when the signs say "swim at your own risk". As we know, there's very little personal responsibility anymore.
    Fear of litigation should not be enough to prevent the City from pursuing this idea. If we live our lives in fear of lawyers nothing would ever get done.

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    When I look at the sand on that faux beach it makes me want to itch.
    what's "faux" about it?

    it's not an imitation or a simulation of a beach, it's a real beach. it's also not a fake or false beach, it's a genuine beach.

    as for your wanting to itch when you look at it, don't be do beachy.

    [
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  68. #168

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    The way some people ramble on about this beach you would think it was Rio De Janerio or Monte Carlo. We have already had a call out for food vendors and washrooms. What next, a couple of casinos. It's a poxy sandbar that appeared during construction. The sand is coarse, awful. It reminds me of a very little kids at Xmas. Give them a toy in a big box and they get more fun out of the box. Happy with anything and it seems the the people of Edmonton are the same about the beach. If it stays I can see the promotional ads for the C of E. Something on the lines of 'Visit or Sandy Beaches'.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    ^If it stays they might spruce it up and make it worthy of such advertising haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The sand is coarse, awful. .
    It's clear you've never been then. The sand is quite fine. Not powder, but definitely soft and worthy of a beach. Similar to the sand they have at some of the beach volleyball courts around the city (which are not really on a beach).

    We went on Wednesday for a bbq on the beach. There were a lot of people there (hundreds) even for a Wed. It seems the city has really started to embrace the river. I was really surprised at the number of boats/canoes on the river, esp for a weeknight. In a couple hours, there were probably 20 canoes, 2 dragon boats, 10 kayaks, 5 SUPs and another 10 powerboats of various sizes. For the unpowered craft it's kind of a one way street mind you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The way some people ramble on about this beach you would think it was Rio De Janerio or Monte Carlo.
    The beaches in Monte Carlo aren't really that nice. They have small pebbles rather than sand. The water's not terribly clean either. There are no casinos on the beaches there. But MC is so small I guess you could say the casinos are practically on the beach.

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    And let's not talk about Rio's water. Remember the Olympics?
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Waterkeeper Alliance has a website that gives up to date information on water quality and swimming conditions for beaches all over North America.

    "Cloverdale Beach" is already listed on the website. It passed the test for swimming conditions on Aug. 21. But there is a caution because river conditions can quickly change.

    https://www.theswimguide.org/beach/8422


    Last edited by North Guy66; 01-09-2017 at 01:12 PM.

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    North Saskatchewan Riverkeeper website:

    http://saskriverkeeper.ca/?p=1246

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    ^ but but, I saw an old tire in the water once!
    And my relatives told me when I was young that the water was dirty. and they were told by someone else that it was. Therefore it must be.

  76. #176

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    Lots of old tires below Dawson park, but they're the cleanest 60-year-old tires you'll ever see. And they make places for Crayfish to hide.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    No, I lack the interest to check it out. I live within 30minutes of Miquelon, would frankly rather go there, or Pigeon Lake or something like that. That said I'm not really a beach person unless I happen to be in a place like Kauai or the West coast.
    It didn't pass the smell test either! Ha HA!
    Miquelon Lake Provincial Park

    Failed to meet water quality standards

    The water close to the beach can become foamy and soupy and the sand sticky in the months of July and August. The beach area close to the water has an odour on still days but this was usually a nuisance concern not a health concern in previous years.

    From Alberta Parks Website: Miquelon Lake is not ideal for swimming due to natural water quality issues. The lake contains naturally high levels of salts and sulfates that become more concentrated when lake levels are low like now. This diminishes water quality for swimming and contributes to odours in summer.

    https://www.theswimguide.org/beach/329

  78. #178

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    I don't go in the water. I do sometimes bring a canoe or inflatable boat though. Miquelon provincial park is just a nice place and a pretty damn good campground. They also have nice trails, good for walking, cycling, but basically the best camping experience close to Edmonton. Elk Island would come close but due to where we are situated that's farther away.

    I'll go to a place if its a reasonable destination. Theres a ton of things to do and enjoy at Miquelon or Elk Island.

    Anyway headed back to the mountains. That's more enjoyable as well..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  79. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Waterkeeper Alliance has a website that gives up to date information on water quality and swimming conditions for beaches all over North America.

    "Cloverdale Beach" is already listed on the website. It passed the test for swimming conditions on Aug. 21. But there is a caution because river conditions can quickly change.

    https://www.theswimguide.org/beach/8422


    Oh no, it's been given a name, Cloverdale Beach. Too funny. Inn the winter it can be called Cloverdale Bog.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  80. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    ^ but but, I saw an old tire in the water once!
    And my relatives told me when I was young that the water was dirty. and they were told by someone else that it was. Therefore it must be.
    Seems like the way you talk this beach up you must have swallowed a few gallons of that water and it's affected your judgement.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  81. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The way some people ramble on about this beach you would think it was Rio De Janerio or Monte Carlo. We have already had a call out for food vendors and washrooms. What next, a couple of casinos. It's a poxy sandbar that appeared during construction. The sand is coarse, awful. It reminds me of a very little kids at Xmas. Give them a toy in a big box and they get more fun out of the box. Happy with anything and it seems the the people of Edmonton are the same about the beach. If it stays I can see the promotional ads for the C of E. Something on the lines of 'Visit or Sandy Beaches'.
    This certainly raises serious issues about golf courses - as fake as they are.
    Last edited by KC; 01-09-2017 at 08:53 PM.

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    Walked down to the beach yesterday. Those of you hacking on this thing are bonkers (the exception being neighbourhood complaints about garbage and such) - it's fantastic. Totally reminds me of urban beaches around Halifax or Vancouver.

    I would suggest anyone interested should check it out in a hurry. The minute the city starts getting its paws on this it will turn to shizzle.

  83. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Walked down to the beach yesterday. Those of you hacking on this thing are bonkers (the exception being neighbourhood complaints about garbage and such) - it's fantastic. Totally reminds me of urban beaches around Halifax or Vancouver.

    I would suggest anyone interested should check it out in a hurry. The minute the city starts getting its paws on this it will turn to shizzle.
    Exactly! Certainly does not surprise me that those who are the most critical have some of the highest post counts. Nobody in real life must want to listen to their continually adverse opinions. ;)
    East of the Rockies, and west of the rest!

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    Ooops. Don't drink the water!

    Riverkeeper cautions about E. coli levels at Edmonton's accidental beach

    The water at Edmonton's popular accidental beach has "failed to meet water quality standards," according to the North Saskatchewan Riverkeeper.


    Testing at the new beach in Cloverdale on Tuesday showed 238 colony-forming units (CFU) of E. coli per 100 millilitres of water, earning the popular recreation spot a "red" rating from the Riverkeeper group in its latest water-quality update.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...iver-1.4273046

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Ooops. Don't drink the water!

    Riverkeeper cautions about E. coli levels at Edmonton's accidental beach

    The water at Edmonton's popular accidental beach has "failed to meet water quality standards," according to the North Saskatchewan Riverkeeper.


    Testing at the new beach in Cloverdale on Tuesday showed 238 colony-forming units (CFU) of E. coli per 100 millilitres of water, earning the popular recreation spot a "red" rating from the Riverkeeper group in its latest water-quality update.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...iver-1.4273046

    Eww, don't even swim in it. Yuck!

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    This city truly needs this beach. It's in the city, has great views, and is a place I can take out of towners too.
    Such a great opportunity. I'd be so ****** (but not surprised) if the city didn't take advantage of this
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

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    Does the city have the authority to 'take advantage of this'?

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    Why not? Unless there are provincial and federal approvals required
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  89. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Ooops. Don't drink the water!

    Riverkeeper cautions about E. coli levels at Edmonton's accidental beach

    The water at Edmonton's popular accidental beach has "failed to meet water quality standards," according to the North Saskatchewan Riverkeeper.


    Testing at the new beach in Cloverdale on Tuesday showed 238 colony-forming units (CFU) of E. coli per 100 millilitres of water, earning the popular recreation spot a "red" rating from the Riverkeeper group in its latest water-quality update.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...iver-1.4273046
    Yet it also says: "Three other beaches — at Laurier Park, Capilano Park and the Fort Edmonton footbridge — all earned green ratings for water quality this week."

    Isn't that interesting. Same river, same city, 3 green and just 1 red. Sounds like a problem with a solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Yet it also says: "Three other beaches — at Laurier Park, Capilano Park and the Fort Edmonton footbridge — all earned green ratings for water quality this week."

    Isn't that interesting. Same river, same city, 3 green and just 1 red. Sounds like a problem with a solution.
    Weird too because Cloverdale is located between Laurier Park and Capilano Park.

    Maybe the water quality test was done right after 3 dogs and a drunk peed in the river.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Why not? Unless there are provincial and federal approvals required
    All waterways in Canada are under the authority of the federal government.

  92. #192

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    Going to a beautiful ocean beach on vacation? Better figure out the ocean currents so you can swim upstream of all the hotels' waste outlets.



    Swim at your peril through the murky data for Mexico's beaches | Geo-Mexico, the geography of Mexico

    ...
    The major source of contamination, despite years of campaigning by environmental groups, comes from hotels, towns and cities that continue to dispose of their effluent directly into the sea, often in close proximity to popular swimming beaches (see photo).
    ...

    Calvillo writes that official reports in 2011 (see map) listed 99 beaches where Enterococus levels had been found in excess of 200 Enterococci/100 ml of water on at least one occasion. Values over 200 Enterococci/100 ml are considered to pose a “health risk”, according to Mexican norms. Of these 99 beaches, 70 were on the Pacific coast. The worst beaches included... in the worst locations, the Enterococci count was over 20,000/100 ml.

    Of the 29 beaches with excessive values on the Gulf of Mexico and on the Caribbean coast, the most polluted were on the Gulf of Mexico, including...

    ...Were the beaches really clean, or were tourists in some destinations risking potentially serious gastrointestinal and other diseases every time they went swimming?

    Adding another layer of complexity to interpreting the statistics is the fact that several states have massaged the data tables by selectively changing the names of some beaches, and ...historical records would be hard to find:

    Costa de Oro I became Gaviota II
    Iguana Norte was renamed Tortuga II
    Iguana Sur became Pelícano II
    Penacho del Indio was renamed Pelícano I.

    In 2012 Veracruz removed two beaches from its list completely: Iguana Centro and Acuario, which it deemed “no longer of interest to tourists,” perhaps because its 2009 count was a record-breaking 159,490 Enteroccocus/100 ml.


    http://geo-mexico.com/?p=9114


    Vietnam beaches; the sad state of Vietnam's beaches in photos

    ...
    That the water on the country's two most famous tourist beaches is dirty and badly polluted might surprise some. But this kind of problem is surprisingly common, and certinly not unique to Vietnam. In nearby Thailand two of the most famous beaches, Pattaya and Patong, also have water that varies from 'maybe' at best, to outright dangerous to human health.
    ...

    http://true-beachfront.com/guide/vie...ches-in-photos


    SC ranks poorly in beach water quality report | The State

    In South Carolina, Myrtle Beach and some surrounding communities historically have piped stormwater directly onto beaches and into ocean-bound tidal inlets, mostly from an estimated 150 drainage pipes. That has at times caused bacteria levels to soar beyond federally recommended standards for safe swimming.


    Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/news/local/a...#storylink=cpy

    http://www.thestate.com/news/local/article13863128.html



    Many Lebanon beaches too polluted to swim safely - By Khaled Rajeh

    https://en.annahar.com/article/60271...to-swim-safely


    Polluted Water Is Gushing Onto Florida's Beaches - Condé Nast Traveler

    Just when tourists are fleeing the chilly north to get their fix of sunshine, some of Florida's famous beaches are being flooded not with visitors, but with polluted water from the interior of the state.

    https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2...oridas-beaches

    POSITION PAPER ON
    WATER QUALITY AND CLEANLINESS OF BEACHES
    ...
    INTRODUCTION

    Malaysia is blessed with beautiful stretches of beaches, warm blue seas and amazing coral reefs. However, over the decades, the quality of these natural treasures has been deteriorating. For instance, Port Dickson, Penang Gurney Drive and Teluk Cempedak used to be popular recreation beaches that people enjoyed swimming in.

    Now, however, sewage pollution is a concern in these beaches as it potentially increases human health risks in coastal waters. In 2003, the Malaysian Department of Environment (DOE) reported that the coastal waters of Penang recorded the highest percentage exceeding the Interim Marine Water Quality Standards (IMWQS) for E. coli contamination (89%) followed by Johor (77%), Selangor (75%), Negeri Sembilan (72%) and Sarawak (71%). 1

    The figures above are based on Marine Environmental Quality Parameters whereby E-coli are measured in the Most Probable Number per 100 millilitres (MPN/100ml) and percentages indicate the level that have exceeded the standards.

    In 2004, two states made the top of the list again. Penang exceeded the IMWQS for E-coli by 89% and Selangor by 79%. 2 The prevalence of E-coli in coastal waters could be attributed to untreated or partially treated discharge of wastes.

    High levels of E-coli is indicative of the presence of pathogens in the water which may pose health hazards such as dysentery, hepatitis and severe skin rash through contaminated seafood or through direct contact, such as swimming. Other serious illnesses can occur if humans consume contaminated shellfish and fish, leading to paralytic shellfish poisoning and fish poisoning respectively.

    http://www.myiem.org.my/download/dow...ty.pdf&id=6853
    Last edited by KC; 02-09-2017 at 10:28 PM.

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    It would be interesting to check out the samples from Mill Creek and Whitemud Creek.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Ooops. Don't drink the water!

    Riverkeeper cautions about E. coli levels at Edmonton's accidental beach

    The water at Edmonton's popular accidental beach has "failed to meet water quality standards," according to the North Saskatchewan Riverkeeper.


    Testing at the new beach in Cloverdale on Tuesday showed 238 colony-forming units (CFU) of E. coli per 100 millilitres of water, earning the popular recreation spot a "red" rating from the Riverkeeper group in its latest water-quality update.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...iver-1.4273046
    But how is that possible? Someone posted a photo of the water on the previous page of this thread, and it was CLEAR!

    The only way this could be true is if E. coli were microscopic or some crazy thing like that.

  95. #195

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    Apparently on the home stretch of reaching this beach there is a pretty steep part where people just about go head long into the river if they are not careful. I just caught a glimpse the other day on one of the local channels that someone had carved some rough kind of steps into the sand so it's easier to access. Coming up next donkey rides and Punch and Judy shows.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Apparently on the home stretch of reaching this beach there is a pretty steep part where people just about go head long into the river if they are not careful. I just caught a glimpse the other day on one of the local channels that someone had carved some rough kind of steps into the sand so it's easier to access. Coming up next donkey rides and Punch and Judy shows.
    And the city has put in garbage cans and portable toilets, so I guess for all practical purposes, they are encouraging people to swim there.

    link

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    Don't get too attached, winter is coming and spring runoff will wash it down to North Battleford or maybe Hudson's Bay

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Apparently on the home stretch of reaching this beach there is a pretty steep part where people just about go head long into the river if they are not careful. I just caught a glimpse the other day on one of the local channels that someone had carved some rough kind of steps into the sand so it's easier to access. Coming up next donkey rides and Punch and Judy shows.
    And the city has put in garbage cans and portable toilets, so I guess for all practical purposes, they are encouraging people to swim there.

    link
    I think that was due to complaints from residents. Drunks were using bushes as toilets, garbage was strewn everywhere, and residents were picking it up.
    Further up, dogs swim in the water,so no thanks.

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    Exactly. Can't let people make a big mess there. Kudos to the city

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    I think Edmonton just needs to keep going anyways. The beach is a nice addition to the river valley.

    Two things seem to happen when Edmonton gets something nice:

    (1) It gets abused by a few people.
    (2) The city steps in and takes it away and ruins it for everybody.

    Edmonton needs to grow up. Our city is not like an elementary or junior high school. Most people act responsibly and treat things with respect. If people bring dogs or alcohol to the beach, they can phone 311.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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