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Thread: Amazon looking for a place to put HQ #2

  1. #1
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    Default Amazon looking for a place to put HQ #2

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/amaz...ters-1.4278642

    They state this will be located somewhere in "North America" and will be in an area of over a million people. Assuming they don't already have a specific region in mind what would it take for Edmonton to land something like this?

    This is more of a dreaming question as I know the magnitude of something like this and that there are other bigger centers with more infrastructure to make something like this happen.

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    Get on it Iveson!!

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    Why would Amazon put their new head office in the boonies?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Base
    Assuming they don't already have a specific region in mind what would it take for Edmonton to land something like this?


    Relocate the city to the NE US and still drop our shorts with massive tax incentives etc?

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    Whole Foods pulled out of their building reno which was going beautifully at the time. If they wouldn't open a retail store here I'm doubting that an international distribution centre would build at an Edmonton location. Maybe the mayor could contact them and lay a guilt trip on them regarding not opening here and convince them we would be an ok spot. Maybe EIA next to the big bud growers, then they could do business with them and include a bag of weed with your grocery deliveries. lol
    Last edited by Drumbones; 07-09-2017 at 10:14 AM.

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    Don Iveson@doniveson

    I'd love to welcome @amazon to the heart of the #Edmonton Innovation Corridor in #yegdt. Already in touch with @EEDC about the opportunity.
    https://twitter.com/doniveson/status/905824773220950016

  7. #7

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    Opinion: Here are the cities that meet the criteria for Amazon’s second headquarters

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/her...ers-2017-09-07
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Toronto and Vancouver are after it: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/amaz...ters-1.4278642

    Edmonton should make a strong push for it by all means. I've long lambasted this city for sitting on its collective arse while HQs relocate from one city to another, especially to Cowtown. Even if they don't succeed, at least try!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  9. #9

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    If Council has nothing else to do then they could use their spare time chasing after this unicorn I suppose, but from everything I've read here they have much better things to do with more realistic chances of success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Opinion: Here are the cities that meet the criteria for Amazon’s second headquarters

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/her...ers-2017-09-07
    Funny how they completely missed all the cities in Canada and Mexico that would also meet the requirements.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    ^^ And it's precisely this attitude why this city has lost HQs to other cities while Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto are what they are today.
    If Edmonton really needs a slogan it should be this: "The Land of Lost Opportunity". Or a head with the letter L stamped on the forehead.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    If Council has nothing else to do then they could use their spare time chasing after this unicorn I suppose, but from everything I've read here they have much better things to do with more realistic chances of success.
    Council wouldn't be working on this, as the city has economic people to look into it.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Opinion: Here are the cities that meet the criteria for Amazon’s second headquarters

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/her...ers-2017-09-07
    Funny how they completely missed all the cities in Canada and Mexico that would also meet the requirements.
    Being written from a US point of view, that's not surprising at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Funny how they completely missed all the cities in Canada and Mexico that would also meet the requirements.
    They excluded non-American sites due to no 1:1 matchup in data sets & stated as much in the article. No comparison is better than a flawed one.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  15. #15

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    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...w-headquarters

    By my tally, the options are: Toronto, Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Dallas or Denver.
    Bloomberg puts Toronto high on the list & so would I.

    E: I like Detroit as well.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Funny how they completely missed all the cities in Canada and Mexico that would also meet the requirements.
    They excluded non-American sites due to no 1:1 matchup in data sets & stated as much in the article. No comparison is better than a flawed one.
    How would they make comparisons without data? Make some up so as not to appear to be "flawed?"
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^^ And it's precisely this attitude why this city has lost HQs to other cities while Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto are what they are today.
    If Edmonton really needs a slogan it should be this: "The Land of Lost Opportunity". Or a head with the letter L stamped on the forehead.
    The city didn't lose HQs because they wouldn't chase after unicorns.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Funny how they completely missed all the cities in Canada and Mexico that would also meet the requirements.
    They excluded non-American sites due to no 1:1 matchup in data sets & stated as much in the article. No comparison is better than a flawed one.
    How would they make comparisons without data? Make some up so as not to appear to be "flawed?"
    Exactly my point.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Amazon is looking for a lot of space and people as they want it to be similar in size to their Seattle campus.



    https://mobilesyrup.com/2017/09/07/j...ons-second-hq/

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    I honestly just don't understand people in this city who think we shouldn't bother pursuing these HQ opportunities and then wonder why we can't fill our office spaces.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  21. #21

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    Perhaps because we spend time and effort chasing pie-in-the-sky ideas with little probability of success instead of pursuing slow-and-steady yet un-sexy growth.

    I also don't understand how we can cheer the overbuilding of New Shiny office space that ultimately only vulturizes the old New Shiny space we have already.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    I'd rather see them try and fail instead of not bothering at all.
    And again, this will be an EDCC pursuit led by Brad Ferguson. It's his job.

    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  23. #23

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    If we meet the criteria, why would it be pie-in-the-sky? We might be a longer shot than others, but that doesn't mean we're not a potential candidate. In sales we have a saying (well, lots of sayings) but you don't win any pitches you don't make. EEDC is designed specifically for this purpose. They should, and likely are, pursuing it.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I honestly just don't understand people in this city who think we shouldn't bother pursuing these HQ opportunities and then wonder why we can't fill our office spaces.
    Because the odds of getting it are about 0 (unless you throw a ton of money at it, which makes it useless), there are plenty of places with a much cheaper labor force (as Edmonton's is inflated by the oil and gas industry). Edmonton has plenty of HQ's throughout the city. I'd like to see some incentives to encourage them into shinny offices in Edmonton downtown, but sadly most of them just have a shiny sales office in Calgary downtown and a bare bones suburban strip mall style office in Edmonton.

  25. #25

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    It's always easier to expect other people to spend their time chasing what we think is an obvious no-brainer.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I honestly just don't understand people in this city who think we shouldn't bother pursuing these HQ opportunities and then wonder why we can't fill our office spaces.
    How much money would you like to fund your tilting at windmills, Don Quixote?
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  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    If we meet the criteria, why would it be pie-in-the-sky? We might be a longer shot than others, but that doesn't mean we're not a potential candidate. In sales we have a saying (well, lots of sayings) but you don't win any pitches you don't make. EEDC is designed specifically for this purpose. They should, and likely are, pursuing it.
    I agree. When I saw the story on TV this morning, I thought hey we should go for this. Amazon is obviously casting the net fairly widely here so they want to see what comes back to them. I don't think they are ruling any one out that meets their criteria. Therefore, I don't think we should rule ourselves out.

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    They really should get Darryl Katz on board. He speaks their language and he knows how to make a deal.
    Never the less the odds are really long not quite zero as some would suggest.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I honestly just don't understand people in this city who think we shouldn't bother pursuing these HQ opportunities and then wonder why we can't fill our office spaces.
    How much money would you like to fund your tilting at windmills, Don Quixote?
    so, let me take a step back and see what this windmill has to offer in terms of many of things that are really important when it comes to these kinds of decisions:


    top tier university and technical schools
    good public education
    good public health care
    a strong banking system and relatively stable currency
    a relatively strong political system at all 3 levels
    a relatively open immigration system and relatively open borders
    a reliable legal system including patent and copyright protection
    a manageable weather climate (i.e. no hurricanes or tornados or earthquakes)
    a stable electrical grid with good capacity
    a strong arts and cultural community
    a strong sports scene (professional and amateur)
    good shipping connections with all modes of transportation
    improving air passenger connections
    a business day time zone able to make same day telephone connections to europe and to the far east
    a relatively healthy multi-cultural and multi-lingual community to staff from/integrate with
    relatively affordable housing
    relatively good local transportation systems
    etc.

    is edmonton likely "top of mind" for someone like amazon? probably not but certainly not if we don't at least put ourselves forward.

    but if we do put ourselves forward we could well be a realistic option - as gretzky once said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

    besides, with pcl, stantec, epcor, capital power, atb, aimco, bioware etc. already here, amazon wouldn't even be pioneering here.
    Last edited by kcantor; 07-09-2017 at 05:10 PM.
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  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    besides, with pcl, stantec, epcor, capital power, atb, aimco, bioware etc. already here, amazon wouldn't even be pioneering here.
    Sure they would - none of your examples built a huge new enterprise here from scratch - they all evolved here over many decades.
    Last edited by Spudly; 07-09-2017 at 05:30 PM.
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    For an investment this large, I doubt the following point would matter all that much, but would reasonable proximity to the original HQ be a factor in their decision-making (e.g. saving on required commuting in between locations)?

    OR, to solidify a more dominant "global" presence would closer proximity to the Atlantic coast be a higher priority?

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    Those of you who think Iveson is going to throw lots of cash and tax incentives at Amazon, think again:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...eson-1.4279958

    ...he cautioned that Amazon would have to approach Edmonton as a respectable suitor.

    "If they're looking for massive tax concessions and just shopping for bargain basement, then that hasn't been our traditional economic development model. And what tends to happen in those cases is that when those tax incentives run out, those headquarters move," the mayor said.

    "So I think we have to take a closer look at what Amazon is looking for.

    "But if they are looking for a long-term partnership where they can grow and leverage the tech community and the research community that exists in our innovation corridor, which runs from NAIT to the University of Alberta right through downtown, then I think there would be something to talk about."
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  33. #33

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    One thing missing in all the reports is WHY Amazon wants HQ2. Is it because they've made Seattle too expensive for their staff to live close by? Fear of being too concentrated on the Cascadia Plate? Room for more bodies with the WF purchase? Publicity? Better tax structures? A trial balloon to see who's willing to throw the most money at them? To be further away from North Korea?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I honestly just don't understand people in this city who think we shouldn't bother pursuing these HQ opportunities and then wonder why we can't fill our office spaces.
    How much money would you like to fund your tilting at windmills, Don Quixote?
    so, let me take a step back and see what this windmill has to offer in terms of many of things that are really important when it comes to these kinds of decisions:


    top tier university and technical schools
    good public education
    good public health care
    a strong banking system and relatively stable currency
    a relatively strong political system at all 3 levels
    a relatively open immigration system and relatively open borders
    a reliable legal system including patent and copyright protection
    a manageable weather climate (i.e. no hurricanes or tornados or earthquakes)
    a stable electrical grid with good capacity
    a strong arts and cultural community
    a strong sports scene (professional and amateur)
    good shipping connections with all modes of transportation
    improving air passenger connections
    a business day time zone able to make same day telephone connections to europe and to the far east
    a relatively healthy multi-cultural and multi-lingual community to staff from/integrate with
    relatively affordable housing
    relatively good local transportation systems
    etc.

    is edmonton likely "top of mind" for someone like amazon? probably not but certainly not if we don't at least put ourselves forward.

    but if we do put ourselves forward we could well be a realistic option - as gretzky once said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

    besides, with pcl, stantec, epcor, capital power, atb, aimco, bioware etc. already here, amazon wouldn't even be pioneering here.
    Thank you for that list of all those positive things. Sometimes I think we take them for granted, overlook them or dwell more on the negatives, we can be our own harshest critics at times.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    One thing missing in all the reports is WHY Amazon wants HQ2. Is it because they've made Seattle too expensive for their staff to live close by? Fear of being too concentrated on the Cascadia Plate? Room for more bodies with the WF purchase? Publicity? Better tax structures? A trial balloon to see who's willing to throw the most money at them? To be further away from North Korea?
    Probably somewhat due to growth. I don't know much about the Cascadia Plate, but earthquakes in Seattle could be a significant concern. After Houston, I suspect a number of big companies are thinking maybe we shouldn't be so concentrated in one location in case some type of disaster strikes the area.

  36. #36

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    For reference, the HQ2 RFP is:
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....516043504_.pdf

    Priority for Consideration
    * Existing buildings of at least 500k sq ft with room to grow
    * A greenfield site of approx 100 acres certified or pad ready with utility infrastructure in place
    * Other infill, existing buildings
    * 30 miles from population center
    * Within Approx 45 minutes of international airport
    * Not more than 1-2 miles from major highways and arterial roads
    * Access to mass transit at site

    ... available or developable within Amazon's (unstated) timeline


    What could Edmonton offer, to meet these priorities?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    For reference, the HQ2 RFP is:
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....516043504_.pdf

    Priority for Consideration
    * Existing buildings of at least 500k sq ft with room to grow
    * A greenfield site of approx 100 acres certified or pad ready with utility infrastructure in place
    * Other infill, existing buildings
    * 30 miles from population center
    * Within Approx 45 minutes of international airport
    * Not more than 1-2 miles from major highways and arterial roads
    * Access to mass transit at site

    ... available or developable within Amazon's (unstated) timeline


    What could Edmonton offer, to meet these priorities?
    again off the top of my head, how about the northland's site?

    or even blatchford for that matter?

    maybe they could partner with eia and the county of parkland and even offer them their own airport in villenueve?
    Last edited by kcantor; 07-09-2017 at 06:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Those of you who think Iveson is going to throw lots of cash and tax incentives at Amazon, think again:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...eson-1.4279958

    ...he cautioned that Amazon would have to approach Edmonton as a respectable suitor.

    "If they're looking for massive tax concessions and just shopping for bargain basement, then that hasn't been our traditional economic development model. And what tends to happen in those cases is that when those tax incentives run out, those headquarters move," the mayor said.

    "So I think we have to take a closer look at what Amazon is looking for.

    "But if they are looking for a long-term partnership where they can grow and leverage the tech community and the research community that exists in our innovation corridor, which runs from NAIT to the University of Alberta right through downtown, then I think there would be something to talk about."
    i really hope that's posturing not to build up expectations or tip your hand to the competition (it's sure a lot different than nenshi's response).

    because if it's really "they would have to approach edmonton" we've lost already. as near as i can tell, they have approached edmonton - and not just edmonton - by issuing an rfp to be responded to.

    you don't issue an rfp inviting people to respond and then approach people that didn't respond when it comes to do a deal and make offers to them. even the city didn't do that in their rfp for office space and if they had there would have been hell to pay.

    google is a publicly traded corporation and process and transparency is important and whoever is successful will be successful because they will have participated as requested and done so as aggressively as possible from the beginning. rest assured the successful suitor for google won't be someplace that waited for google to approach them.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetcrude View Post
    For an investment this large, I doubt the following point would matter all that much, but would reasonable proximity to the original HQ be a factor in their decision-making (e.g. saving on required commuting in between locations)?

    OR, to solidify a more dominant "global" presence would closer proximity to the Atlantic coast be a higher priority?
    i think being equidistant from Europe and Asia works in our favour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sweetcrude View Post
    For an investment this large, I doubt the following point would matter all that much, but would reasonable proximity to the original HQ be a factor in their decision-making (e.g. saving on required commuting in between locations)?

    OR, to solidify a more dominant "global" presence would closer proximity to the Atlantic coast be a higher priority?
    i think being equidistant from Europe and Asia works in our favour.
    you could add panama to that if you want to complete the triangle. all of which you can reach by air freighter without landing in trump-land (you can still overfly quite easily when there is no passenger manifest).
    Last edited by kcantor; 07-09-2017 at 06:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    For reference, the HQ2 RFP is:
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....516043504_.pdf

    Priority for Consideration
    * Existing buildings of at least 500k sq ft with room to grow
    * A greenfield site of approx 100 acres certified or pad ready with utility infrastructure in place
    * Other infill, existing buildings
    * 30 miles from population center
    * Within Approx 45 minutes of international airport
    * Not more than 1-2 miles from major highways and arterial roads
    * Access to mass transit at site

    ... available or developable within Amazon's (unstated) timeline


    What could Edmonton offer, to meet these priorities?
    again off the top of my head, how about the northland's site?

    or even blatchford for that matter?

    maybe they could partner with eia and the county of parkland and even offer them their own airport in villenueve?
    EIA or the land north of the airport that is being annexed by the city. Huge incentive to run LRT down to the airport.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Those of you who think Iveson is going to throw lots of cash and tax incentives at Amazon, think again:
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...eson-1.4279958

    ...he cautioned that Amazon would have to approach Edmonton as a respectable suitor.

    "If they're looking for massive tax concessions and just shopping for bargain basement, then that hasn't been our traditional economic development model. And what tends to happen in those cases is that when those tax incentives run out, those headquarters move," the mayor said.

    "So I think we have to take a closer look at what Amazon is looking for.

    "But if they are looking for a long-term partnership where they can grow and leverage the tech community and the research community that exists in our innovation corridor, which runs from NAIT to the University of Alberta right through downtown, then I think there would be something to talk about."
    i really hope that's posturing not to build up expectations or tip your hand to the competition (it's sure a lot different than nenshi's response).

    because if it's really "they would have to approach edmonton" we've lost already. as near as i can tell, they have approached edmonton - and not just edmonton - by issuing an rfp to be responded to.

    you don't issue an rfp inviting people to respond and then approach people that didn't respond when it comes to do a deal and make offers to them. even the city didn't do that in their rfp for office space and if they had there would have been hell to pay.

    google is a publicly traded corporation and process and transparency is important and whoever is successful will be successful because they will have participated as requested and done so as aggressively as possible from the beginning. rest assured the successful suitor for google won't be someplace that waited for google to approach them.
    I think the mayors words are a bit confusing here. I didn't think he means they have to approach us for a RFP, but their approach in dealing with us would have to be respectful, I guess as opposed to demanding too much. There is an upcoming election, so I suspect the mayor doesn't want to be accused of giving away too much, so hence the cautious comment. I don't know if it really means that much more than that though.

  43. #43

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    edmonton won't get it. the city isn't designing a proper mass transit system for cities that have hq's like this.
    edmonton won't get it. if the city was truly open for business, public areas/ entrances would be spic and span clean
    edmonton won't get it. the place is too resistant to change (for a fast moving company like amazon). it can't even build a tower in oliver without people complaining towers don't belong in oliver.

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    That's the spirit!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    ...

    I think the mayors words are a bit confusing here. I didn't think he means they have to approach us for a RFP, but their approach in dealing with us would have to be respectful, I guess as opposed to demanding too much. There is an upcoming election, so I suspect the mayor doesn't want to be accused of giving away too much, so hence the cautious comment. I don't know if it really means that much more than that though.
    perhaps... but the tone still makes no sense to me, election or not. nenshi's tone was on the other end of the scale and he's facing the same election date. i think part of my frustration is that a mayor's comments in situations like this are pretty much irrelevant to a party like amazon, particularly when they're being given to the press and not to amazon. they are however, pretty relevant to edmontonians and how we perceive our city and our potential.

    nenshi took the opportunity to reinforce to calgarians many of the things that are still great about their city despite the current downturn (including direct air connections to seattle ). those things that were obliquely referenced in that "innovation corridor" need to front and centre and we need to beat ourselves up with them over and over until we recognize there value and hearing about them doesn't surprise us.

    as for giving away too much, i'm not sure there would ever be a too much here. what amazon is proposing in terms of infrastructure investment with their own capital and with their own reputation is on the far end of the scale when compared to what convergys bought and brought.

    we invested half a billion in the arena and have already seen that investment pay off handsomely despite those who still say we gave away too much. how can there be too much in the way of tax concessions if we're talking about giving them the northlands site as an example? the city receives no direct taxes from that site now and isn't likely to for the foreseeable future so continuing to receive nothing isn't really that big of a concession is it? compare that with the hotel rooms that would go up around them or compare that with the employment they would bring and the taxes their employees would pay on their incomes and their homes and through the businesses they would support and add the education dollars they would drive and the added airline connections they would bring etc. etc. etc.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    For reference, the HQ2 RFP is:
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....516043504_.pdf

    Priority for Consideration
    * Existing buildings of at least 500k sq ft with room to grow
    * A greenfield site of approx 100 acres certified or pad ready with utility infrastructure in place
    * Other infill, existing buildings
    * 30 miles from population center
    * Within Approx 45 minutes of international airport
    * Not more than 1-2 miles from major highways and arterial roads
    * Access to mass transit at site

    ... available or developable within Amazon's (unstated) timeline


    What could Edmonton offer, to meet these priorities?
    again off the top of my head, how about the northland's site?

    or even blatchford for that matter?

    maybe they could partner with eia and the county of parkland and even offer them their own airport in villenueve?
    South Campus might check off all of those boxes.
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    Amazon is going to want Foxconn-like "inducements" - $3 billion - in adition to a number of existing conditions like campus-ready building and acreage near an international airport and mass transit. These are not things Edmonton has to offer right now nor for at least a decade. Amazon's RFP does not appear to consider what "could" be done someday they want something from Day 1.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Amazon is going to want Foxconn-like "inducements" - $3 billion - in adition to a number of existing conditions like campus-ready building and acreage near an international airport and mass transit. These are not things Edmonton has to offer right now nor for at least a decade. Amazon's RFP does not appear to consider what "could" be done someday they want something from Day 1.
    I agree. Amazon has a history of demanding and receiving significant incentives - which are out of our league. Furthermore why would Amazon want a second HQ so close to their Seattle offices. My bet is If any Canadian city would be a serious contender it would be metro Toronto. But i would also bet that it will be one of the east coast American cities that are the successful bidders....

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    This would be a great exercise for Edmonton. Edmonton has a growing cargo base at the International Airport. Amazon would attract similar businesses.
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    I agree. Amazon has a history of demanding and receiving significant incentives - which are out of our league.
    Those "incentives" are realistically called corporate subsidies (which IMO might as well be called welfare). What kind of sweetheart deal can the city/province offer, especially compared to the others? It's why many car companies are manufacturing in southeast US states the last 10 years... cheap labour, tax incentives and the state forwarding money (Tennessee comes to mind) at the company to lock them in. Throw in a right to work state and a culture that despises unions... and you'll have a winner.

    This won't happen in Alberta, especially since we're not surrounded by millions upon millions of potential customers. Toronto has the best chance in Canada but my bet will be somewhere in the US regardless.

    Some of this reminds me of Bill Smith's nonsense. Let's just change it from YEG to YES!

    By all means, pitch it to them as they will. However, the writing is already on the wall.
    Last edited by Kitlope; 07-09-2017 at 08:41 PM.
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    It doesn't matter if Edmonton actually wins this bid or not. THE POINT IS TO TRY!
    Rolling over and muttering "why bother" as some of you seem to be advocating is absolutely not the right message to be sending to our current business community.
    FFS guys it's not gonna bankrupt the city's resources just to respond to a goddamn RFP.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    We're gonna try... and I think most of us are supporting that. The Amazon corporate realities are that it's not going to happen here.

    You ever read some of them articles over the last 10+ years what it's like to be a floor worker for them? Sounds like its worse than Wal-Mart.
    Last edited by Kitlope; 07-09-2017 at 09:16 PM. Reason: edited because some may take offense to the word scabby (snowflake generation and all)
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    Cowtown in the run too! And according to Nenshi, they have a lot of very serious advantages.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ters-1.4279852
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    I wouldn't be surprised to hear it goes to Toronto or Vancouver, but in this area, I would think Leduc might be an option. That's where they are putting the big pot growing plant so I assume it must have the supporting infrastructure. It has access to main arteries and airport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    But i would also bet that it will be one of the east coast American cities that are the successful bidders....
    Like where the CEO just bought a $23M house & owns other significant businesses, like say one of America's last great newspapers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Some of this reminds me of Bill Smith's nonsense. Let's just change it from YEG to YES!



    Good one Kitlope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    But i would also bet that it will be one of the east coast American cities that are the successful bidders....
    Like where the CEO just bought a $23M house & owns other significant businesses, like say one of America's last great newspapers?
    In a Bloomberg news column Conor Sen, a portfolio manager for New River Investments in Atlanta, said Amazon’s real options are Toronto, Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Dallas and Denver.

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    It doesn't hurt to try. Under 5% chance of success, but it may open the eyes of other companies that were previously unaware of our benefits. With the CAD$ where it is (and will likely be rangebound for quite some time), our incomes and house prices are lower than their current location. Housing in particular is about half the price or less. I wouldn't offer many incentives. Maybe things like free land and an LRT stop on the grounds. Knowing how fast that moves though, we'd have to have started on the LRT bit about 5 yrs ago to meet their likely timeline.

    In the end I would probably guess Raleigh or Atlanta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    But i would also bet that it will be one of the east coast American cities that are the successful bidders....
    Like where the CEO just bought a $23M house & owns other significant businesses, like say one of America's last great newspapers?
    In a Bloomberg news column Conor Sen, a portfolio manager for New River Investments in Atlanta, said Amazon’s real options are Toronto, Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Dallas and Denver.

    Bezos is not given to many flashy displays of wealth. He has loads of real estate — he bought the most expensive home in Washington, D.C., and owns homes in Beverly Hills, California, and New York along with his spread in Medina, Washington — and is one of the nation's largest landowners, with over 300,000 acres.

    He also owns The Washington Post.

    Thus Washington DC is probably the leading contender

  60. #60

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    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...d-amazons-hq2/

    Great article about what it'll take to land Amazon. Came recommended by Richard Florida & Conor Sen (the guy who wrote the Bloomberg article).
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    It doesn't hurt to try. Under 5% chance of success, but it may open the eyes of other companies that were previously unaware of our benefits. With the CAD$ where it is (and will likely be rangebound for quite some time), our incomes and house prices are lower than their current location. Housing in particular is about half the price or less. I wouldn't offer many incentives. Maybe things like free land and an LRT stop on the grounds. Knowing how fast that moves though, we'd have to have started on the LRT bit about 5 yrs ago to meet their likely timeline.

    In the end I would probably guess Raleigh or Atlanta.
    It depends how much it costs to try - time is money, if you put staff on it, that's something else they could have been doing. I think its probably going to be in the SE or E as well (Boston might be a good fit), but don't know. I think the only chance it comes to Alberta is if the executives are big into skiing, in which case it could go in Calgary, or the US cities of Salt Lake City or Denver. Otherwise you would think they will go geographically to a different part of NA given the H/O is currently in Seattle. I think Dallas more likely than Atlanta (Dallas has a strong IT history, well, at least, it was on that Halt and Catch Fire show).
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-09-2017 at 09:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    It depends how much it costs to try - time is money, if you put staff on it, that's something else they could have been doing.
    Either way, it's good experience for EEDC to do. Maybe they could use the experience to try and get other companies here.

  63. #63

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    If Edmonton is going to blow a trumpet, we should throw away the trumpet, and blow a train horn instead. The squeaky wheel gets the grease!
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  64. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...d-amazons-hq2/

    Great article about what it'll take to land Amazon. Came recommended by Richard Florida & Conor Sen (the guy who wrote the Bloomberg article).
    Here's one major disadvantage for Edmonton, air access.

    Therefore, we end up with 20 North American metro areas that all have rail transit systems, albeit of varying coverage and quality, and international airports with the baseline connectivity necessary to meet Amazon’s demands of daily direct flights to the Bay Area, New York, Seattle, and Washington, DC.
    Had New York and San Francisco and lost them.

    if Calgary (WestJet) and Montreal (Air Canada) are both in the running, do you think it's likely they'd step in to help Edmonton's bid out of the goodness of their hearts?
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 08-09-2017 at 10:53 AM.

  65. #65

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    But doesn't Port Alberta put us at a better advantage then say... Calgary for that matter

  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by nosepass2 View Post
    But doesn't Port Alberta put us at a better advantage then say... Calgary for that matter
    No. This is an HQ, not a distribution centre.

    Distribution isn't listed as a requirement in any form.
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    The news articles suck. Here's what they're looking for:

    1. Site/building. Amazon is looking for existing buildings of at least 500,000 square feet and total site space of up to 8 million sq ft. It would like the site to be within 30 miles of a population center and within 45 minutes of an international airport. It prefers metro areas with more than 1 million people. Its Seattle headquarters includes 33 buildings totaling 8.1 million sq ft.

    2. Capital and operating costs. Amazon is prioritizing “stable and business-friendly regulations and tax structure” in its considerations. The company is seeking out incentives from state and local governments “to offset initial capital outlay and ongoing operational costs.” At its Seattle headquarters, Amazon says it invested $3.7 billion in buildings and infrastructure from 2010 to 2017, and spent another $1.4 billion on utilities and maintenance.

    3. Incentives. The company is asking applicants to outline the specific types of incentives they could offer, such as tax credits and relocation grants, as well calculations on the amount of total incentives that could be provided. “The initial and ongoing cost of doing business are critical decision drivers,” the RFP states.

    4. Labor force. Hiring 50,000 skilled workers is no easy task, and Amazon wants to make sure its new headquarters is in an area with a readily available pool of talent. The company is prioritizing sites with a “strong university system.” It’s asked cities to provide a list of universities and community colleges with “relevant degrees” plus the number of students to graduate with those degrees over the past three years. Amazon also wants information on computer-science programs in the local and regional K-12 education system.

    5. Logistics. Amazon is first and foremost a master of logistics, so it should come as no surprise that the company cares a lot about transportation. Amazon wants on-site access to mass transit—train, subway, or bus—and to be no more than one or two miles from major highways and connecting roads. It wants to be within 45 minutes of an international airport with daily direct flights to Seattle, New York, the San Francisco Bay area, and Washington DC. The company is also asking applicants to identify “all transit options, including bike lanes and pedestrian access” for the proposed site and to rank traffic congestion during peak commuting hours.

    6. Time to operations. To begin construction as soon as possible, Amazon wants an outline of the permitting process and approximate timetable ahead of “Phase 1” of the building process—the first 500,000 to 1 million sq ft, for an investment of $300 million to $600 million.

    7. Cultural community fit. Like any tech company, Amazon cares about “culture fit.” It defines this as a diverse population, strong higher-education system, and local government that is “eager and willing to work with the company.” Amazon is asking cities to “demonstrate characteristics of this” in their responses. “We encourage testimonials from other large companies,” it adds

    8. Community/quality of life. The new headquarters should be in a place where people want to live. Amazon is interested in daily living and recreational opportunities for people in each proposed metro area. It is also requesting information about housing prices and availability, general cost of living, and crime statistics.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    But i would also bet that it will be one of the east coast American cities that are the successful bidders....
    Like where the CEO just bought a $23M house & owns other significant businesses, like say one of America's last great newspapers?
    In a Bloomberg news column Conor Sen, a portfolio manager for New River Investments in Atlanta, said Amazon’s real options are Toronto, Boston, Washington, Atlanta, Dallas and Denver.
    That makes sense to me, bigger cities likely not too close to Seattle, something to cover the eastern side of US and Canada. However, because the are asking for proposals it probably means there is no obvious or preferred place. A good place may come up that they haven't thought of. If Amazon continues to grow it may also need additional locations and distributions centres in the future too. This process might give them a good list for that too.

  69. #69

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    Amazon is trawling for a Foxconn-like deal - all the requirements except for "incentives" could be easily researched without an RFP.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Amazon is trawling for a Foxconn-like deal - all the requirements except for "incentives" could be easily researched without an RFP.
    Why research when you can have them come to you, and then fact check?
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    ^^ agreed, Amazon is quite infamous in the US for avoiding sales taxes / using their size to bully states, so I expect where-ever they go, they will want quite the deal.

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    If it's a deal like Dell, forget it. How much money was the city on the hook for?
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    I don't hold out much - or given the airline connections they want any - hope.

    That said, if we don't try that'll be still more people who will have never even heard of us.

    And, like computer code, it would give us charts, paragraphs and other good stuff with which to build future presentations for things that may be more attainable.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^^ agreed, Amazon is quite infamous in the US for avoiding sales taxes / using their size to bully states, so I expect where-ever they go, they will want quite the deal.
    There will be dozens of cities offering those deals. up to 50K high paying tech jobs and billions in infrastructure/building spend? Plus improved air connections that would likely result, real estate growth, all kinds of benefits. I mean wouldn't they be the largest employer in Edmonton if they came here?

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    They should combine forces with the Aurora Sky project, ship out weed for next day delivery via your Amazon account . Throw in some junk food and you are good to go!!

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    ^^^ I agree. Give it a shot, take it as a learning/prep experience.

    But if they're going to choose a Canadian city, it'd probably be Toronto. But more likely it'd be an American city like Boston.

    EDIT: They're building an HQ and not a distibution centre, right?

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    I think an eastern American city will be the likely candidate, no question. But it could be that they are considering a Canadian location due to the lower CDN dollar and the current US government, especially given the current and developing policies on immigration (which impacts high-tech employment) and trade. What may hamper bids in Vancouver and Toronto are the high housing prices.
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  78. #78

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    Any city Amazon chooses will need to have direct flights to Seattle.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  79. #79

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    ^I'm assuming you mean for HQ2?

    Probably a pipe dream, but Edmonton should make a serious bid. I'd give up the future downtown central park space if it meant Amazon could put a $5 billion HQ there.

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I think an eastern American city will be the likely candidate, no question. But it could be that they are considering a Canadian location due to the lower CDN dollar and the current US government, especially given the current and developing policies on immigration (which impacts high-tech employment) and trade. What may hamper bids in Vancouver and Toronto are the high housing prices.
    Good points. I think Toronto checks a lot of the boxes, but cost and size are disadvantages. I assume Amazon is relatively happy with Seattle so it is probably looking for a mid-size city, rather than a big one which tends to be more expensive, more congested and harder to find bigger parcels of available, affordable land, etc.. I assume if there was a simple/easy obvious answer for them, they probably would have just picked that city and not bothered with this whole process. Every city has pluses and minuses.

    Are existing flights to Seattle a requirement? I mean airlines can fairly easily change schedules based on demand and I am guessing being the winning city will create the necessary demand.

    I think cost will be a fairly big factor - this company does not need (or probably want) a lot of fancy New York downtown space, so that may rule some places out that might otherwise think they are front runners.

  81. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^^ agreed, Amazon is quite infamous in the US for avoiding sales taxes / using their size to bully states, so I expect where-ever they go, they will want quite the deal.
    It's not just the U S Amazon manage to pay as little taxes as possible. It happens in Europe.


    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...es-soar-to-7bn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^^ agreed, Amazon is quite infamous in the US for avoiding sales taxes / using their size to bully states, so I expect where-ever they go, they will want quite the deal.
    It's not just the U S Amazon manage to pay as little taxes as possible. It happens in Europe.


    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...es-soar-to-7bn
    That article says they paid taxes of 16mil on 59.6mil profit. That's not crazy low. People just look at the revenue (almost 22 bil), but you get taxed on profit and their business is low margins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/amaz...ters-1.4278642

    They state this will be located somewhere in "North America" and will be in an area of over a million people. Assuming they don't already have a specific region in mind what would it take for Edmonton to land something like this?

    This is more of a dreaming question as I know the magnitude of something like this and that there are other bigger centers with more infrastructure to make something like this happen.

    I'll skip the rest of the replies and answer the OP.

    You are correct. In my many years of doing such RFP/RFI's, we normally had the top 3-5 locations/vendors in mind prior to going to market. It is not a bad thing, but people and organizations do like familiarity at times. However, the majority of these go to market requests are really trying to find the surprises or outliers. While I am very sure that the Amazon team has done a ton of research to date and has a tentative shortlist, some city (i.e Austin or Minneapolis) could surprise them. A betting person would look to the NE as this houses the vast majority of the US and Canadian population - aka buyers. It also houses the vast majority of the raw materials and manufacturers - aka the sellers. Flights and logistics from Asia and Europe are equal.

    Edmonton's biggest detraction is its close proximity to Seattle, and lack of proximity to the NE US/CAN. Flights can be added. Warehouses can be built. Office space can be had. Trains, planes, and trucks travel to and from here with ease. All the nuts and bolts can be built and can be deployed in a relatively short order of time. That is not the killer. Proximity is the killer.

    Now, that said, Edmonton definitely SHOULD go through this exercise. They should go through it with the intent on landing Amazon. That does 2 things. First, it gets you in the running, and the experience is a good thing for this city to get an honest critique back from a vendor. Plus, if you don't try, you already have your NO. Quitting is easy. The second, and most important, is that our bid will be potentially noticed by someone else. This other party may be more aligned to what we can do, what we should do, and what we will do. This would be great advertising. Just...please...for the love of God or whatever you think is holy...do NOT enamour yourself with this "bring them to #yegdt" nonsense. Amazon will pick a location, give them options.
    Onward and upward

  84. #84

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    ^The most important factor is talent acquisition. 50,000 high paying positions with a minimum college education is not easy to fill. I'd imagine they end up somewhere with metro population much higher than 1 million. Canada would be attractive as it not only gives access to Canadians, but also other immigrants that might be hesitant to settle in the US.

    Edmonton has many strong features:

    - already existing direct flights to Seattle
    - strong post secondary programs in comp sci, good corridor of schools on LRT line (also a City University of Seattle campus lol)
    - Chinese tech incubator for access to Chinese market, startups and labor
    - relatively young workforce
    - potential blank canvas in central areas (warehouse district, former stationlands, blatchford)
    - low taxation
    - low cost of living and housing prices with very little pressure from foreign investment (unlike Vancouver and Toronto)

    That said, I'm sure most cities have their own compelling reasons. Calgary has millions of sqft of office space just begging for a tenant, a lot of it brand new AAA, and it sounds like they are ready to provide a huge economic incentive.

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    Well it would definitely be nice if they could come here to Edmonton. The nice thing that we have that a number of other cities don't have are large parcels of land that can be developed within minutes of the downtown core and freeways. As Ken pointed out a number of posts back we have either Blatchford or Northlands that would allow for a campus within city borders and I think compared to places like Toronto and Vancouver and many American cities, that land would be a steal of a deal price wise.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Interesting analysis about top North American cities for tech jobs.

    “Atlanta and Toronto are the surprises,” said Colin Yasukochi, director of research and analysis at CBRE, told USA TODAY. “We’re seeing that large, low-cost markets such as Toronto and Atlanta have grown faster in recent years than the larger and more well-known markets.”

    Atlanta and Toronto, in particular, moved up in the rankings because both the cost of office space and the cost of living are lower than other cities. For instance, the median price for a house in the San Francisco Bay Area is $750,000, according to real estate research firm CoreLogic. In Atlanta, the median price is $218,350.
    USA Today

    Toronto has been named the fastest growing tech market in North America by the CBRE’s 2017 North American Scoring Tech Talent report. The city even beat out the technology hotbeds of San Francisco and New York City combined, shooting up from 12th to sixth in an overall annual ranking.

    .....

    Toronto also ranked as the second-cheapest market with high quality talent for a technology firm to operate. When you consider the costs of hiring talent and finding real estate, it costs about $26 million (all figures USD) to run a 500 person technology company in Toronto, well below the lowest US city’s cost for the same thing, $34 million in Oklahoma City.


    “Toronto is a becoming a leader in producing a world-class tech talent, particularly in the artificial intelligence field,” said Werner Dietl, Executive VP of CBRE Canada in a release. “It shows just how vibrant Toronto’s tech industry has become.”


    TechVibes
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  87. #87
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    It's surprising to me that Toronto would be considered cheap. Blatchford would be a nice location right next to NAIT. Yellowhead would need improvements for sure then. 50,000 more people working in central Edmonton, wow. Then there is EIA and vicinity. Give them free land on the newly annexed land north of Hwy 19. Or at the.........naw, just dreaming.

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    The exchange rate works in Toronto's favor even with the cost of housing (especially versus NY and San Francisco), looks like office space is still less relative to major US markets. But of course Amazon is looking at building a large office complex and the biggest land parcels left close to downtown Toronto are the portlands along the lake to the east of the downtown. A couple of major mass transit lines are planned to have stations near there.
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  89. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It's surprising to me that Toronto would be considered cheap. Blatchford would be a nice location right next to NAIT. Yellowhead would need improvements for sure then. 50,000 more people working in central Edmonton, wow. Then there is EIA and vicinity. Give them free land on the newly annexed land north of Hwy 19. Or at the.........naw, just dreaming.
    I suppose everything is relative. Toronto is cheap compared to Hong Kong, London or maybe New York. However, I don't think Amazon is looking at such real world class cities. Alberta also has an advantage of perhaps having skilled labour currently more available due to the state of our economy. Toronto has a lot of people, but the unemployment rate is lower there and I suspect it is hard to convince people from elsewhere in Canada (except maybe Vancouver) to go there due to the cost of housing. It may not actually be so easy to get those 50,000 skilled people there.

    I think all things being equal Amazon may prefer an eastern location, as they can cover probably the western half of North America from the existing offices in Seattle, if necessary. However, I don't think there are any strong favorites and we do have cost advantages, available land in accessible locations, large educational institutions that can also provide a good pool of talent and last, but not least we are a good distance away from Trump.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It's surprising to me that Toronto would be considered cheap. Blatchford would be a nice location right next to NAIT. Yellowhead would need improvements for sure then. 50,000 more people working in central Edmonton, wow. Then there is EIA and vicinity. Give them free land on the newly annexed land north of Hwy 19. Or at the.........naw, just dreaming.
    I suppose everything is relative. Toronto is cheap compared to Hong Kong, London or maybe New York. However, I don't think Amazon is looking at such real world class cities. Alberta also has an advantage of perhaps having skilled labour currently more available due to the state of our economy. Toronto has a lot of people, but the unemployment rate is lower there and I suspect it is hard to convince people from elsewhere in Canada (except maybe Vancouver) to go there due to the cost of housing. It may not actually be so easy to get those 50,000 skilled people there.

    I think all things being equal Amazon may prefer an eastern location, as they can cover probably the western half of North America from the existing offices in Seattle, if necessary. However, I don't think there are any strong favorites and we do have cost advantages, available land in accessible locations, large educational institutions that can also provide a good pool of talent and last, but not least we are a good distance away from Trump.
    Here is the perspective of an ex- Amazon employee about the odds of Amazon choosing Toronto as their second HQ

    https://www.thestar.com/news.html

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It's surprising to me that Toronto would be considered cheap. Blatchford would be a nice location right next to NAIT. Yellowhead would need improvements for sure then. 50,000 more people working in central Edmonton, wow. Then there is EIA and vicinity. Give them free land on the newly annexed land north of Hwy 19. Or at the.........naw, just dreaming.
    I suppose everything is relative. Toronto is cheap compared to Hong Kong, London or maybe New York. However, I don't think Amazon is looking at such real world class cities. Alberta also has an advantage of perhaps having skilled labour currently more available due to the state of our economy. Toronto has a lot of people, but the unemployment rate is lower there and I suspect it is hard to convince people from elsewhere in Canada (except maybe Vancouver) to go there due to the cost of housing. It may not actually be so easy to get those 50,000 skilled people there.

    I think all things being equal Amazon may prefer an eastern location, as they can cover probably the western half of North America from the existing offices in Seattle, if necessary. However, I don't think there are any strong favorites and we do have cost advantages, available land in accessible locations, large educational institutions that can also provide a good pool of talent and last, but not least we are a good distance away from Trump.
    Here is the perspective of an ex- Amazon employee about the odds of Amazon choosing Toronto as their second HQ

    https://www.thestar.com/news.html
    second article under GTA

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    Its more than clear, 100% clear, that Amazon would not locate to the land locked most Northern City in the continent and that happens to be located in a province with an NDP government and strong Union activity.

    Why is this even a conversation here? More pipe dreaming? Edmonton wouldn't even be on a list. A place like Edmonton would be last on the list as reading the article cited above denotes.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Kendall Beleshko (a Vancouver entrepreneur) has outlined the reasons he thinks Edmonton has a legit shot at the Amazon HQ2 bid
    https://www.facebook.com/kendall.bel...54939023881847
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  95. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^^ agreed, Amazon is quite infamous in the US for avoiding sales taxes / using their size to bully states, so I expect where-ever they go, they will want quite the deal.
    There will be dozens of cities offering those deals. up to 50K high paying tech jobs and billions in infrastructure/building spend? Plus improved air connections that would likely result, real estate growth, all kinds of benefits. I mean wouldn't they be the largest employer in Edmonton if they came here?
    What's the message you are sending though to local business? If you start your company in Edmonton and are committed to the city, you pay your fair share of corporate and city tax. But if you are from another city we will throw out the red carpet to get you to move. I don't think its good at all. Amazon will get a great deal somewhere, or maybe this is all just a play for Seattle to offer something up, what goes around comes around though. You pay a ton to attract a company today then lose a company tomorrow, I think look after local loyal business first regardless of whether the industry is sexy or not.

  96. #96

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    In my dream world these kind of incentives/bribes/preferential treatment would be banned worldwide, but NAFTA would be a great place to start.
    No one company/employer should get treated any different from another.
    There can only be one.

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    What other company could get the local tech industry on juiced up and give this city instant credibility and fill the place of a declining oil industry? Even if they left after the incentives ran out what kind of legacy would they leave? Much improved airline service? A critical mass of high tech companies that would be self sustaining?
    You cannot blow off the prospect of landing this company just because it offends your sensibilities.
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  98. #98

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    Right. Nothing wrong with making an honest pitch.

    But before you go too far with those spin-off benefits consider the possibility that no matter where Amazon goes it probably won't be as big as it says it will be. They're probably committed to something maybe 1/10th as big as their stated 50,000 jobs and 8million square feet of offices. The rest may follow, or not.

    What did the city offer Stantec? Why should we offer Amazon more than we did for them?
    There can only be one.

  99. #99

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    Same reason why the phone/cable company gives better deals to lure new customers over. It might not be "right", but it could serve the greater good for the city. We "incentived" Katz to build a hockey arena and that turned out pretty good. Landing Amazon would be 10x better. There's a good reason why there are going to be several dozen cities bidding for this.

  100. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo View Post
    Same reason why the phone/cable company gives better deals to lure new customers over. It might not be "right", but it could serve the greater good for the city. We "incentived" Katz to build a hockey arena and that turned out pretty good. Landing Amazon would be 10x better. There's a good reason why there are going to be several dozen cities bidding for this.
    Hey, I have a great idea we could offer them a lower provincial sales tax rate than most US states and also lower than Ontario. Oh wait, we already have that!

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