Amazon looking for a place to put HQ #2

[kcantor]

In Alberta cities are prohibited from offering tax breaks, they might be able to arrange great lease deals, but really this is a "race to the bottom", with the only advantage to the winning city being the taxes paid by the employees (income, property, sales)
http://www.slate.com/articles/busine..._s_new_hq.html

although sometimes you don't have to "offer tax breaks" to be competitive...

as an example, health care for employees is free in alberta, a considerable advantage over every american jusrisdiction when you have 50,000 employees.

total tax levels - federal, provincial/state, municipal, vat - are lower than most american jurisdictions, a considerable advantage over every american jusrisdiction when you have 50,000 employees.

quality education and post secondary education are considerably more open and less expensive than most american jurisdictions, a considerable advantage over every american jusrisdiction when you have 50,000 employees.

on a world-wide basis, we offer a competitive and stable currency along with a freer flow of both human and financial capital than american jurisdictions.

there are many things - and many of them have been discussed in this thread and elsewhere on this forum - that don't require alberta cities and edmonton in particular to offer tax breaks in some sort of a race to the bottom to be competitive.

[kcantor]

It would be a wonderful thing if these kind of breaks were prohibited by NAFTA.

unless you're bombardier. although that might be a wonderful thing for the rest of the country.

[howie]

"Paddy Power, which mostly takes wagers on sports but ventures into politics and other topics, gives Atlanta 2-to-1 odds against winning the competition. That's way better than Philadelphia at 7-to-1, Boston at 8-to-1 and Toronto at 9-to-1. "

Took the words out of my mouth there, nobleea. Do they even give odds on Edmonton?

[nobleea]

Do they even give odds on Edmonton?[/COLOR]

Not that I can find.
Austin 3-1
Pitt 14-1
San Jose 18-1
DC 16-1
LA 20-1
Van 66-1
Ott 80-1
Halifax 100-1
Toronto is at 7-1 from what I can see.

Given there's probably 200 legit options, I'd say Edmonton is above 200-1 just due to the fact we're in Canada.

Paddy Power doesn't accept bids from North America, so we can't visit their site.

[Edmonton PRT]

There are 50,000 Sears employees looking for a job...

[Drumbones]

12,000 across Canada, maybe 300 in Edmonton

[Dave]

Do they even give odds on Edmonton?[/COLOR]

Not that I can find.
Austin 3-1
Pitt 14-1
San Jose 18-1
DC 16-1
LA 20-1
Van 66-1
Ott 80-1
Halifax 100-1
Toronto is at 7-1 from what I can see.

Given there's probably 200 legit options, I'd say Edmonton is above 200-1 just due to the fact we're in Canada.

Paddy Power doesn't accept bids from North America, so we can't visit their site.

I would guess we would probably fall somewhere between Ottawa and Halifax along with all the rest of the Canadian cities that bid, but were not listed above.

[Dave]

In Alberta cities are prohibited from offering tax breaks, they might be able to arrange great lease deals, but really this is a "race to the bottom", with the only advantage to the winning city being the taxes paid by the employees (income, property, sales)
http://www.slate.com/articles/busine..._s_new_hq.html

although sometimes you don't have to "offer tax breaks" to be competitive...

as an example, health care for employees is free in alberta, a considerable advantage over every american jusrisdiction when you have 50,000 employees.

total tax levels - federal, provincial/state, municipal, vat - are lower than most american jurisdictions, a considerable advantage over every american jusrisdiction when you have 50,000 employees.

quality education and post secondary education are considerably more open and less expensive than most american jurisdictions, a considerable advantage over every american jusrisdiction when you have 50,000 employees.

on a world-wide basis, we offer a competitive and stable currency along with a freer flow of both human and financial capital than american jurisdictions.

there are many things - and many of them have been discussed in this thread and elsewhere on this forum - that don't require alberta cities and edmonton in particular to offer tax breaks in some sort of a race to the bottom to be competitive.

Quite true, many of the "incentives" here already exist. For instance Alberta has no provincial sales tax. Also, the lower wage costs in Canada vs. the US more than offset the real estate related incentives that some US cities have offered because wages are a higher portion of total annual cost than real estate costs.

[moahunter]

Not the HQ, but a flow on from YYC building port Alberta while Edmonton dithered:

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...ibution-centre

Not a win for Nenshi as outside city limits.

[Dave]

Not the HQ, but a flow on from YYC building port Alberta while Edmonton dithered:

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...ibution-centre

Not a win for Nenshi as outside city limits.

Maybe not for Nenshi, but more good news for Notley then. This will add even more to Calgary's growth in the upcoming year.

[PunjabiOil]

750 jobs isn't insignificant.

EEDC needs some results.

[Think BIGGER]

Not the HQ, but a flow on from YYC building port Alberta while Edmonton dithered:

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...ibution-centre

Not a win for Nenshi as outside city limits.

Everyone associated with Port Alberta needs to go. Project after project after project is setting up in Calgary and area. EEDC I'm looking at you. An organization set up to deliver these kinds of results is failing beyond words, and is more interested in making excuses and going after low-hanging fruit. Enough.

[noodle]

Woop! Alberta will have the same selection of Prime Same-Day/One-Day as Toronto & Vancouver. Their current leased space isn't large enough to accommodate everything so some stuff isn't available with the speedy shipping.

[moahunter]

^^Someone at YEG needed to make it happen (as had most to gain, but no doubt their management blames Nisku or Leduc or EEDC, or something else), but apparently, nobody stepped up, unlike YYC. The end result is YYC is growing like crazy, Walmart for example also set up at Balzac, once the momentum is there, it is pretty much over, the opportunity was missed. Inaction (paying consultants to study something is not action) is IMO a bigger management failing than failed action, if I owned YEG I'd cut the entire executive over that issue alone, and you are right EEDC should be looked at as well. Edmonton has so many geographical advantages being in the middle of the province, it probably would never have got everything, but its inexcusable its getting vitually nothing.

[Gemini]

While the powers that be in the C of E are making up hashtags for nonsensical things other jurisdictions are actually getting stuff done.

[Glenco]

Not unreasonable to think that putting the distribution centre is in Balzac considering it is closer to the American border. No sense trucking everything north to Edmonton then taking it south again to the ribbon of communities along the border. Bringing goods from Asia on the other hand is a whole different kettle of fish.

[lobbdogg]

For this new warehouse, it isn't that giant building going up just south of Cross Iron Mills mall is it?

[happydays]

Not the HQ, but a flow on from YYC building port Alberta while Edmonton dithered:

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...ibution-centre

Not a win for Nenshi as outside city limits.

Everyone associated with Port Alberta needs to go. Project after project after project is setting up in Calgary and area. EEDC I'm looking at you. An organization set up to deliver these kinds of results is failing beyond words, and is more interested in making excuses and going after low-hanging fruit. Enough.

Completely agree, time to clean house and question results. I have asked this many times on the forum - show the ROC that EEDC generates for the city. Crickets is the response.......

[Drumbones]

For this new warehouse, it isn't that giant building going up just south of Cross Iron Mills mall is it?

No, that's the New Horizon Mall. It's an Asian market style with 500 spaces.

[Drumbones]

Not unreasonable to think that putting the distribution centre is in Balzac considering it is closer to the American border. No sense trucking everything north to Edmonton then taking it south again to the ribbon of communities along the border. Bringing goods from Asia on the other hand is a whole different kettle of fish.

Alberta is a large province approximately equal to the size of Texas. I would think eventually they would have a warehouse in Edmonton too for this region and all those northern Alberta cities and towns as they get busier, especially if they are going to be delivering groceries as well. Northern communities especially would be a boon for the grocery business I would think. Mind you Mcdonalds Consolidated (Safeway/Sobeys) just closed theirs and moved to Calgary.

[moahunter]

Not unreasonable to think that putting the distribution centre is in Balzac considering it is closer to the American border. No sense trucking everything north to Edmonton then taking it south again to the ribbon of communities along the border. Bringing goods from Asia on the other hand is a whole different kettle of fish.

I would think a lot of it comes in by train or flight, maybe even direct from Asia, so it’s really no meaningful difference in time re the trucks. What is the difference is Calgary has the momentum now, there is a Walmart distribution facility (a lot of which will be from Asia), a UPS one, and plenty of others (there are warehouses going up all round the airport and just north at cross irons). This means more flights, which means more options / better schedules, the rapid momentum has created a self fulfilling prophecy. The opportunity is gone for YEG (and Winnipeg), Calgary is now the distribution hub for Alberta/Prairies, it’s to the point where not only are new companies setting up around YYC, but where Edmonton and Winnipeg distribution centres are also thinking of, or already have, moved south. Maybe that was inevitable, either that, or it was a colossal failure - it is super frustrating though because plenty of us called it in this forum years ago when the Port Alberta idea started to be promoted, we all saw the money going not to build Port Alberta (while Calgary quickly took the chance on it and executed it) but instead to just study it (the easy cop out that gets you tickets to a hockey game from the consultant, when nobody has the guts to start building). While YEG / Nisku / Leduc /Edmonton were advertising/arguing/studying/dithering the Calgary community quietly (not quiet anymore) and quickly executed. It has ripple effects all the way through to passenger routes which also are enhanced by, and enhance, the distribution tie ins.

[Edmonton PRT]

A lot comes by ship too. The Seattle location has a port. How much does a sea port come into the equation?

[noodle]

A lot comes by ship too. The Seattle location has a port. How much does a sea port come into the equation?

Seattle? Not so much. Vancouver & Prince Rupert are the primary entry points for Asian container ships, with Vancouver being 25% larger than Prince Rupert.

[The_Cat]

I think Edmonton needs to come up with its own niche. Things like AI and Google Deep Mind are positive steps for the city.

[nobleea]

I was reading recently that Canada and China are considered the front runners in the AI development race. Should run with that. Eventually, AI will permeate everything (right or wrong).

[PunjabiOil]

I think Edmonton needs to come up with its own niche. Things like AI and Google Deep Mind are positive steps for the city.

I think we're overrating AI, and the impact of it. Edmonton isn't even well positioned compared to other peers to make a significant dent. I would imagine Toronto/Waterloo would still come out ahead.

AI is a very minuscule industry. It's not labour intensive. Google Deep Mind will employ less than 15 people, at current state.

Reminds me of the Nanotechnology wave a decade ago. How did that work out for Edmonton?

Not saying you ignore these industries, but keep the expectations in check.

[PunjabiOil]

http://www.rbc.com/newsroom/news/201...-borealis.html

[faraz]

I think Edmonton needs to come up with its own niche. Things like AI and Google Deep Mind are positive steps for the city.

I think we're overrating AI, and the impact of it. Edmonton isn't even well positioned compared to other peers to make a significant dent. I would imagine Toronto/Waterloo would still come out ahead.

AI is a very minuscule industry. It's not labour intensive. Google Deep Mind will employ less than 15 people, at current state.

Reminds me of the Nanotechnology wave a decade ago. How did that work out for Edmonton?

Not saying you ignore these industries, but keep the expectations in check.

Nanotechnology was all the rage when I started engineering at UofA in 2002 attracting the highest mark earners. Many of them now have switched out of nanotech because other than academia, there are no practical applications.

[Glenco]

^The difference is AI is finding applications especially in productivity.
AI will contribute as much as $15.7 trillion to the world economy by 2030, according to a PwC report Wednesday. That’s more than the current combined output of China and India.

Gains would be split between $6.6 trillion from increased productivity as businesses automate processes and augment their labor forces with new AI technology, and $9.1 trillion from consumption side-effects as shoppers snap up personalized and higher-quality goods, according to the report.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...global-economy

[rockyv]

I think Edmonton needs to come up with its own niche. Things like AI and Google Deep Mind are positive steps for the city.

I think we're overrating AI, and the impact of it. Edmonton isn't even well positioned compared to other peers to make a significant dent. I would imagine Toronto/Waterloo would still come out ahead.

AI is a very minuscule industry. It's not labour intensive. Google Deep Mind will employ less than 15 people, at current state.

Reminds me of the Nanotechnology wave a decade ago. How did that work out for Edmonton?

Not saying you ignore these industries, but keep the expectations in check.

Nanotechnology was all the rage when I started engineering at UofA in 2002 attracting the highest mark earners. Many of them now have switched out of nanotech because other than academia, there are no practical applications.

I wondered what happened to all the Nanotechnology hype, but maybe it's still years away from being practical. The only time you hear about it nowadays is when someone creates a miniature flag of something:
http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...for-canada-150
http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonto...nhl-logo-.html

[kcantor]

I think Edmonton needs to come up with its own niche. Things like AI and Google Deep Mind are positive steps for the city.

I think we're overrating AI, and the impact of it. Edmonton isn't even well positioned compared to other peers to make a significant dent. I would imagine Toronto/Waterloo would still come out ahead.

AI is a very minuscule industry. It's not labour intensive. Google Deep Mind will employ less than 15 people, at current state.

Reminds me of the Nanotechnology wave a decade ago. How did that work out for Edmonton?

Not saying you ignore these industries, but keep the expectations in check.

Nanotechnology was all the rage when I started engineering at UofA in 2002 attracting the highest mark earners. Many of them now have switched out of nanotech because other than academia, there are no practical applications.

I wondered what happened to all the Nanotechnology hype, but maybe it's still years away from being practical. The only time you hear about it nowadays is when someone creates a miniature flag of something:
http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...for-canada-150
http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonto...nhl-logo-.html

that might be the sort of stuff that gets headlines and newspaper articles but it's really not the sort of stuff that's going on. the stuff that's really going on is pretty revolutionary:

http://www.engineering.ualberta.ca/e...tionAward.aspx

it might not make the news because it's worked it's way onto your local drug store shelves already but that doesn't make it less revolutionary.

[Dave]

I think Edmonton needs to come up with its own niche. Things like AI and Google Deep Mind are positive steps for the city.

I think we're overrating AI, and the impact of it. Edmonton isn't even well positioned compared to other peers to make a significant dent. I would imagine Toronto/Waterloo would still come out ahead.

AI is a very minuscule industry. It's not labour intensive. Google Deep Mind will employ less than 15 people, at current state.

Reminds me of the Nanotechnology wave a decade ago. How did that work out for Edmonton?

Not saying you ignore these industries, but keep the expectations in check.

Nanotechnology was all the rage when I started engineering at UofA in 2002 attracting the highest mark earners. Many of them now have switched out of nanotech because other than academia, there are no practical applications.

I wondered what happened to all the Nanotechnology hype, but maybe it's still years away from being practical. The only time you hear about it nowadays is when someone creates a miniature flag of something:
http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...for-canada-150
http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonto...nhl-logo-.html

I think there is a lot of tech hype all over - we are not all going to be riding in driver less, electric cars in 5 years in a world run by AI. Yes it moves fast, but peoples imaginations still move faster than reality. There is a whole bunch of rules and regulations that need to change for any of these things to move forward and people also need to be willing/see the benefit of adopting the technology too and it has to be affordable. I see a lot of people having reservations about driverless cars. I think nanotechnology is not so oriented towards the consumer market, but has an increasing number of applications in areas like medicine where we don't see it as consumers.

[kcantor]

^

one of the difficulties with categorizing like that is that when it comes to pure research - whether it's artificial intelligence or nanotechnology or medicine - there is almost never any practical applications at the beginning. it's impossible to predetermine the outcome or whether there is any commercial application for the outcome at the commencement of pure research or pure exploration. it is very different from practical research or simple problem solving where the research is focused from day one.

practical research will develop solutions incrementally. pure research will develop things that are revolutionary as they solve problems we didn't know existed or that will be applied to problems in a manner that was never initially contemplated...

[maclac]

A lot comes by ship too. The Seattle location has a port. How much does a sea port come into the equation?

Seattle? Not so much. Vancouver & Prince Rupert are the primary entry points for Asian container ships, with Vancouver being 25% larger than Prince Rupert.

Not so much? Hmmmm...sure seemed busy when I drove by it for 3 years - 2X/daily when I lived in West Seattle. No stats in front of me....thinking way busier than Vancouver but less than Long Beach.

[jadzia2000]

Realistically?

Winnipeg is probably the most logical location to put Amazon.

It's centralized and a lot easier to have products delivered in a reasonable time.

[Glenco]

Realistically it is a head office location they are looking for not a distribution centre parcel delivery is the least of their concerns.

[Marcel Petrin]

And Winnipeg is absolutely not "centralized" if you're looking at the overall North American market. E/W wise it is, but otherwise it's way too far North. Atlanta and Denver (along with a few cities in between) are the "central" candidates.

[jadzia2000]

And Winnipeg is absolutely not "centralized" if you're looking at the overall North American market. E/W wise it is, but otherwise it's way too far North. Atlanta and Denver (along with a few cities in between) are the "central" candidates.

Yes, but I was referring to distribution for Canada not North America.

[Marcel Petrin]

Fair enough, but I fail to see what that has to do with HQ2.

[kcantor]

And Winnipeg is absolutely not "centralized" if you're looking at the overall North American market. E/W wise it is, but otherwise it's way too far North. Atlanta and Denver (along with a few cities in between) are the "central" candidates.

Yes, but I was referring to distribution for Canada not North America.

it's not as central as you think at first glance... the eastern seaboard gets serviced primarily from europe and panama; you can service the central u.s. from winnipeg but you still need to get those goods to winnipeg and those goods aren't likely to arrive by air (the arctic routes aren't as attractive as through alaska or even edmonton) and they're not economical to ship there by road or by rail (you're better off coming through rupert and edmonton or vancouver and calgary instead). regardless of the method of shipping, as much as possible you also want it to be two-way traffic - those full airplanes or trailers or rail cars need to get back where they started and winnipeg doesn't service a large enough area to provide an economically large enough back-haul.

[Glenco]

And Winnipeg is absolutely not "centralized" if you're looking at the overall North American market. E/W wise it is, but otherwise it's way too far North. Atlanta and Denver (along with a few cities in between) are the "central" candidates.

Yes, but I was referring to distribution for Canada not North America.

This distribution centre is for western Canada which would put it pretty central. Central Canada has a distribution centre of its own.

[Gemini]

^Amazon just opened a new distribution centre last week in Balzac. They are looking for a second headquarters complex that is for the technical side of things. Computers, admin etc.

[noodle]

Not so much? Hmmmm...sure seemed busy when I drove by it for 3 years - 2X/daily when I lived in West Seattle. No stats in front of me....thinking way busier than Vancouver but less than Long Beach.

But in terms of Amazon shipping products to their fulfillment centres to then be sold to Canadians? Why would you go through Seattle & then shlep it across the border when you can just get it through a Canadian port to begin with?

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Amazon to add 1,000 more tech jobs in B.C.
E-commerce giant will lease new office downtown as part of expansion

https://www.biv.com/article/2017/11/...-tech-jobs-bc/

[GenWhy?]

Was just about to post that. Opening in the big redesign of the old post office, a real beauty and tricky project with MCM Architects. Rumours were in the mill after Trump got elected. Investments in the tech sector have swirled and growth with international talent and satellite offices out of US. Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, are looking at more office space in Vancouver. Not to mention Hootsuite's big expansion. Amazon I doubt will make Van an HQ. Or Edmonton for that matter. Come on, really?

[maclac]

What? 50000 jobs in Seattle plus another 50000 to run an e-commerce shopping channel type business? Besides transportation and shipping....couldn't a guy with a laptop run Amazon out of his mom's basement?

[Marcel Petrin]

What? 50000 jobs in Seattle plus another 50000 to run an e-commerce shopping channel type business? Besides transportation and shipping....couldn't a guy with a laptop run Amazon out of his mom's basement?

You might want to do a bit of research on Amazon, if you think that they're just an "e-commerce shopping channel type business."

[maclac]

Haha! Do some research? Ummm yeah I have....I said that with tongue-in-cheek

[Dave]

Was just about to post that. Opening in the big redesign of the old post office, a real beauty and tricky project with MCM Architects. Rumours were in the mill after Trump got elected. Investments in the tech sector have swirled and growth with international talent and satellite offices out of US. Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, are looking at more office space in Vancouver. Not to mention Hootsuite's big expansion. Amazon I doubt will make Van an HQ. Or Edmonton for that matter. Come on, really?

Well perhaps Vancouver will become the de facto Canadian headquarters. It would make sense with the proximity to Seattle. I think it is unlikely any Canadian city will become the second headquarters though the request for proposals may provide Amazon with a lot of useful info to continue to expand its distribution and other facilities in Canada.

[Drumbones]

If their scouts were eyeing Calgary and Edmonton their eyes have now left to look elsewhere with this weather we are having.

[nobleea]

If their scouts were eyeing Calgary and Edmonton their eyes have now left to look elsewhere with this weather we are having.

Vancouver's got snow too right now.

[Drumbones]

Ya but it will be gone in a day or two. Ours may disappear by May. One thing Seattle knows about Vancouver is they have the same weather, and it's not minus 20 for six months. Who in their right mind would move here on purpose? lol

[Doug]

Ya but it will be gone in a day or two. Ours may disappear by May. One thing Seattle knows about Vancouver is they have the same weather, and it's not minus 20 for six months. Who in their right mind would move here on purpose? lol

The snow is long gone by May every year and it is not minus 20 for 6 months. It is statements like that that make it difficult for Edmonton to attract major cooperations.

[Doug]

Ya but it will be gone in a day or two. Ours may disappear by May. One thing Seattle knows about Vancouver is they have the same weather, and it's not minus 20 for six months. Who in their right mind would move here on purpose? lol

The snow is long gone by May every year and it is not minus 20 for 6 months. It is statements like that that make it difficult for Edmonton to attract major cooperations.

[Think BIGGER]

Ya but it will be gone in a day or two. Ours may disappear by May. One thing Seattle knows about Vancouver is they have the same weather, and it's not minus 20 for six months. Who in their right mind would move here on purpose? lol

The snow is long gone by May every year and it is not minus 20 for 6 months. It is statements like that that make it difficult for Edmonton to attract major cooperations.

Agreed. The embellishments about our weather are endless. Nobody throws Edmonton under the bus more than Edmontonians do.

[Mla]

Ya but it will be gone in a day or two. Ours may disappear by May. One thing Seattle knows about Vancouver is they have the same weather, and it's not minus 20 for six months. Who in their right mind would move here on purpose? lol

The snow is long gone by May every year and it is not minus 20 for 6 months. It is statements like that that make it difficult for Edmonton to attract major cooperations.

Agreed. The embellishments about our weather are endless. Nobody throws Edmonton under the bus more than Edmontonians do.

Yup it's nothing short of ridiculous. It perpetuates the confirmation bias that the rest of Canada has about Edmonton. If we want to change that image then it needs to start in this city

[Drumbones]

Or build a giant dome. lol

[Kitlope]

Or move to the coast, Drumbones.

Choices.

[KC]

Ya but it will be gone in a day or two. Ours may disappear by May. One thing Seattle knows about Vancouver is they have the same weather, and it's not minus 20 for six months. Who in their right mind would move here on purpose? lol

The snow is long gone by May every year and it is not minus 20 for 6 months. It is statements like that that make it difficult for Edmonton to attract major cooperations.

Agreed. The embellishments about our weather are endless. Nobody throws Edmonton under the bus more than Edmontonians do.

Yup it's nothing short of ridiculous. It perpetuates the confirmation bias that the rest of Canada has about Edmonton. If we want to change that image then it needs to start in this city

YES! That can’t be said often enough or loudly enough:



”Yup it's nothing short of ridiculous. It perpetuates the confirmation bias that the rest of Canada has about Edmonton. If we want to change that image then it needs to start in this city”


”Yup it's nothing short of ridiculous. It perpetuates the confirmation bias that the rest of Canada has about Edmonton. If we want to change that image then it needs to start in this city”


”Yup it's nothing short of ridiculous. It perpetuates the confirmation bias that the rest of Canada has about Edmonton. If we want to change that image then it needs to start in this city”


”Yup it's nothing short of ridiculous. It perpetuates the confirmation bias that the rest of Canada has about Edmonton. If we want to change that image then it needs to start in this city”

Agree. We don’t even have decent publicily available weather, sunlight and other data available or presented to slice and dice. And no one seems to be doing it for us.

(It’s like the financial markets moronic and simplistic reliance on index benchmarks and averages when that doesn’t come close to personal real life experiences, rates of return, etc.)


Also, simplistic measures don’t help. Today we have snow in the ground but the sky is blue and cloudless. I prefer that to no snow but cloud and drizzle. So there needs to be consideration given towards many other factors in order to evaluate the quality of life that a City’s climate and geographical location presents.

Here’s data on just one measure of sunlight. We look pretty good compared to some cities.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...shine_duration

Plus, here in Edmonton our USABLE LEISURE TIME in the summer* that is warm and sunlit is significant compared to cities to the south.


What I’d like to see is something on the odds of tomorrow or the weekend meeting some criteria of ‘decent’ weather. Averages/means don’t hel as much in explaining weather and sunlight and wind/windchill when there’s greater seasonable volatility as in spring and fall.


* Summer leisure time in many cities is more ‘valued’ than such time in the winter. Kids out of school, travel domestically in summer, don’t stay at home in winter anyway but travel afar in winter, more summer activities...

[Drumbones]

Or move to the coast, Drumbones.

Choices.

Lend me a million?

[Cumberland]

As far as Canadian cities go, Edmonton has a decent climate. We don't get severe temps or humidity. I'd rather go through an Edmonton winter than the lake effect snow in TO, or the dumps of snow that Montreal or Halifax get. Calgary seems to get more severe storms than us, but those Chinooks kinda break up their winters, so I'd say it's a wash between us. Sure, Vancouver doesn't get much snow, but I wouldn't want to put up with that chilly dampness for 3+ months. Regina and Winnipeg have higher highs in summer, and lower lows in winter, and Winnipeg can get pretty humid as well. Saskatoon is comparable to us, maybe slightly colder, not much difference though.

And yeah, I really like summers here. Warm, not too hot, lots of sunlight hours for leisure activities.

[Cumberland]

Or move to the coast, Drumbones.

Choices.

Lend me a million?

Another Edmonton bonus, housing is more affordable.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

I just hope Amazon's decision makers do not discover C2E. The rampant stupidity that is displayed here on a daily basis would certainly deter any corporation that is seeking to locate to a city with a highly educated workforce.

[Drumbones]

Speaking for yourself of course. I was born here, have lived my life here, love it here, home sweet home, but also have travelled and do travel extensively and am aware and open minded. I'm hoping for Amazon to locate here and would be very happy if they did, but also realize there are obstacles, one being the weather. If you do not realize or accept this fact then maybe you're the stupid one. They may still come, I hope, but our winters are definitely a major hurdle. Like it or not.

[Glenco]

Happiest weather in Canada.
https://youtu.be/PgQCL2UWAYA

[Think BIGGER]

Ya but it will be gone in a day or two. Ours may disappear by May. One thing Seattle knows about Vancouver is they have the same weather, and it's not minus 20 for six months. Who in their right mind would move here on purpose? lol

The snow is long gone by May every year and it is not minus 20 for 6 months. It is statements like that that make it difficult for Edmonton to attract major cooperations.

Agreed. The embellishments about our weather are endless. Nobody throws Edmonton under the bus more than Edmontonians do.

Yup it's nothing short of ridiculous. It perpetuates the confirmation bias that the rest of Canada has about Edmonton. If we want to change that image then it needs to start in this city

Of all the major urban centres on the prairies (Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnipeg), Edmonton has the longest growing season and (ironically enough) Calgary has the shortest (ours being 4 weeks longer). April through September, our average temperature is higher than Calgary, with Calgary's average being higher from September through April. Edmonton gets far more severe thunderstorms than Calgary but Calgary gets more hail and out-of-season snow storms. And what I don't understand is why people keep insisting we do not get chinooks?? Granted we do not get warmer winds than those closer to the mountains, but we certainly do have them. If (again) for example if Calgary were to spike to, say, +12c mid-winter, by the time those winds make their way to Edmonton, it cools to roughly +7c or +8c. Generally, if there's a chinook happening, 4 times out of 5 we are also tapping into some warmer air. The opposite is also true. If it's -25c here in Edmonton, I'm sorry, but 4 times out of 5 Calgary is tapping into that same cold air mass, in spite of what people like to claim. In spite of ALL this, Head Offices and distribution centres are STILL moving to Calgary, so this argument about climate being a deciding factor is incredibly weak.

[Glenco]

Maybe this will help.

Edmonton makes World’s Best Cities Top 100 list for 1st time

https://globalnews.ca/news/3851311/e...edium=Facebook

[nobleea]

Paddy power has calgary's odd's increasing:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ower-1.4475922

Just barely below Toronto for 2nd Canadian city on the list.
Edmonton at 100-1 but only because there's no information on what was offered as incentives.

[Drumbones]

With the new corporate tax cuts by Trump I doubt very much they would be looking at Canada or elsewhere anymore.

[ridgeman]

With the new corporate tax cuts by Trump I doubt very much they would be looking at Canada or elsewhere anymore.

Quote in todays Fortune magazine " Amazon is in talks to lease 500,000 square feet of offices in Boston’s Fort Point Channel neighborhood, a hot destination for tech companies, with an option to double the amount of space also being discussed, the Boston Globe*reported*Thursday. The search started before Amazon publicly disclosed its HQ2 search, the paper said.
That sounds a lot like the first stage of the plan Amazon laid out for HQ2. Though the second headquarters is ultimately projected to house 50,000 workers in a $5 billion, 8-million square foot campus by 2027, Amazon said the first phase of the project would be to open about 500,000 square feet of space in 2019 in the new city.

Boston actually makes alot of sense

[kcantor]

With the new corporate tax cuts by Trump I doubt very much they would be looking at Canada or elsewhere anymore.

as long as it's a vertically integrated business unit for taxation purposes, even if it operates as a subsidiary corporation the corporate tax changes shouldn't make any difference.

[kkozoriz]

Some of the unintended consequences of having Amazon in town.

One walk through Seattle's 'Amazonia' neighborhood made me very uneasy for whatever city gets HQ2


With so much real estate under its belt, Amazon has become one of the biggest landlords in the city, dictating which businesses rent its spaces. It has, however, has rented out to local businesses and avoided chains.


The company is determined to turn its surrounding area into a thriving all-day neighborhood. As of August, the company rents out space to 32 businesses, with 24 of those being restaurants and cafes.


Amazon's lease agreements require restaurants to stay open late into the night. But the area is said to turn into a ghost town after work, and many restaurants have found they can't generate enough business at night to justify the cost of staying open.

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazo...mazon-office-1

[IanO]

'20000 new residential units in the last decade, 27000 coming'

Incredible.

[kkozoriz]

Also incredible.

From 2005 to 2015, Seattle's median rent jumped by three times as much as the national figure did. In downtown Seattle, average rent has climbed to $2,400 a month, meaning you'd need to make about $96,000 to afford it.

'20000 new residential units in the last decade, 27000 coming'

Incredible.

[RichardS]

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/am...140400111.html
Amazon said Thursday it narrowed the list of potential cities for its second headquarters to 20 cities.

Spoiler... or not...Edmonton isn't one...neither is anything in Western Canada. There is, as expected, an eastern focus.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Just heard that Toronto is the only Canadian city on the short list.

[RichardS]

From the article I posted...

The remaining 20 cities are:

Atlanta, GA
Austin, TX
Boston, MA
Chicago, IL
Columbus, OH
Dallas, TX
Denver, CO
Indianapolis, IN
Los Angeles, CA
Miami, FL
Montgomery County, MD
Nashville, TN
Newark, NJ
New York City, NY
Northern Virginia, VA
Philadelphia, PA
Pittsburgh, PA
Raleigh, NC
Toronto, ON
Washington D.C.


Funny thing...ir is almost a list in order of preference... the top 3 are the same as the odds makers have been pontificating on for some time.

[ridgeman]

From the article I posted...

The remaining 20 cities are:

Atlanta, GA
Austin, TX
Boston, MA
Chicago, IL
Columbus, OH
Dallas, TX
Denver, CO
Indianapolis, IN
Los Angeles, CA
Miami, FL
Montgomery County, MD
Nashville, TN
Newark, NJ
New York City, NY
Northern Virginia, VA
Philadelphia, PA
Pittsburgh, PA
Raleigh, NC
Toronto, ON
Washington D.C.


Funny thing...ir is almost a list in order of preference... the top 3 are the same as the odds makers have been pontificating on for some time.

The cities are listed in alphabetical order, but BOSTON is now the betting favorite

[JamesL]

I'm fine with this. Some of the offers on the table are obscene:

Example: Chicago has offered to let Amazon pocket $1.32 billion in income taxes paid by its own workers. This is truly perverse. Called a personal income-tax diversion, the workers must still pay the full taxes, but instead of the state getting the money to use for schools, roads or whatever, Amazon would get to keep it all instead. “The result is that workers are, in effect, paying taxes to their boss,” says a report on the practice from Good Jobs First, a think tank critical of many corporate subsidies.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...you-by-amazon/

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Even if we didn't make the shortlist, I am glad Edmonton still submitted a bid.

[Gemini]

Amazon gets big subsidies from the U S Postal Service for it's parcels. Of course this is past onto every one else using the postal service in the way them paying more for their parcels.
I know Amazon generates a lot of business for postal services it delivers parcels to but is it normal for companies to get postal subsidies like this for mass mail outs. Would seem unfair it Amazon was the only company enjoying this perk.


https://www.postaltimes.com/postalne...cial-delivery/

[Chmilz]

Our economy is strong without competing to offer an absurd case of corporate welfare to a company that would very likely make our city worse via dramatic increase in housing prices. The public already believes we're beholden to Katz, imagine how badly we'd have to gargle Bezos' balls if we landed this.

[McBoo]

Doubt anyone ever thought we'd make the final cut, let alone be Amazon's "chosen one."

But, now we have a body of work with which to entice something that is more attainable, or maybe any number of things more attainable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u38yzHWUtBo

[Gemini]

^Well how about just stroking Bezos' ego without gargling anything. But your right. Amazon things it walks on water or is to big to fail. Remember the auto industry?.

[kcantor]

i'm less disappointed with our "not making the cut" than i am about not knowing what was in the bid and that no-one else does either.

i'm not talking about financial details or incentives but all of the things that were part of it to "sell" edmonton. all of that information and those pluses should be available for all edmontonians to use whenever we're talking to someone from somewhere else or from here.

we need to stop selling ourselves short and not having the sales pitch to be able to pitch elsewhere every chance we get is a bigger loss than what we all knew was an outside chance at best.

and even if we get the information now, it's not "our bid" any more, it's "our losing bid" and as valuable as it still is that doesn't have the cachet it would have had up until now.

[IanO]

Mid-East/SE USA

[McBoo]

i'm less disappointed with our "not making the cut" than i am about not knowing what was in the bid and that no-one else does either.

i'm not talking about financial details or incentives but all of the things that were part of it to "sell" edmonton. all of that information and those pluses should be available for all edmontonians to use whenever we're talking to someone from somewhere else or from here.

Great point Ken, fully agree. Why have a handful of ambassadors when we can have thousands? Under the N for no-brainer ...

[Spudly]

i'm less disappointed with our "not making the cut" than i am about not knowing what was in the bid and that no-one else does either.

i'm not talking about financial details or incentives but all of the things that were part of it to "sell" edmonton. all of that information and those pluses should be available for all edmontonians to use whenever we're talking to someone from somewhere else or from here.

Great point Ken, fully agree. Why have a handful of ambassadors when we can have thousands? Under the N for no-brainer ...

What's going to be in the bid that isn't already in edmonton.ca and any number of other public resources available to anyone who cares to look?

[McBoo]

Only one way to know for sure ...

[Popaj]

Like many of you on here, I too did not expect us to make the cut. I'm glad that we entered the contest though because it puts us out there on the map. It was also fun talking about this entire thing with friends and colleagues at work. It made me really feel like we're united as Edmontonians, working towards something great.

I moved to Edmonton back in November 2013 in search of a better life. Four years later, I'm now married, I have a government job, a house, a car, a baby on the way and most importantly, I'm healthy. These are the things I could only dream of working for minimum wage in the Greater Toronto Area. Though I miss back home every day, I can't deny nor stop appreciating just how much this city and t his province has done for me and my wife.

[RichardS]

@ridgeman...funny...I didn't look past the top 3 as they were the top 3 since this rumor started circulating a couple years ago...teaches me a lesson to read the entire list...

and yes, Boston is the odds on favorite now. Atlanta is too far from container ports...Austin is the techie nod, but too far...and Boston gets it done with their main goals of easy access to shipping of all kinds, tech savvy, and easy access to 2/3 of the NA population...

[RichardS]

What's going to be in the bid that isn't already in edmonton.ca and any number of other public resources available to anyone who cares to look?

Maybe not so much as what we can sell as that is what is in Edmonton.ca etc...but HOW it was marketed, what strengths did they play up, how the assets were selected/co-ordinated/aggregated...etc...

[Glenco]

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1307415
Call me small minded petty or juvenile but I am loving the tears coming from the south. Edmonton spent about $75,000 where as they spent $500,000.
Although Amazon did point out their short comings I heard on another broadcast they did not elaborate on Edmonton’s short comings but they were very interested in certain elements of the bid. Stay tuned.

[RichardS]

...it definitely shows a lot of hubris from the Calgary bid to be so miffed.

Calgary has enjoyed a lot of success since 1988...and it would color their perception of their attributes. To express such public dismay is, frankly, surprising.

There were plenty of hints dropped that this was bound for the NE, with the outliers being the SE and Texas...

[Drumbones]

Anybody but Toronto at this point. I would just hate it if Toronto were their pick. They are already gloating that they were picked to be in the top 20. Imagine the gloating if they were the winner. That would be gawd awful. I'm in agreement with Boston. Gotta have the port for all the sea cans coming in (conex in u.s.)

[envaneo]

I like the contrasting differences of responses between Edmonton & Calgary.

TBH, with Nafta talks under way would an American company really want to be on the bad side of that? Especially with abt 50,000 jobs leaving the country? Seriously?

[kcantor]

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1307415
Call me small minded petty or juvenile but I am loving the tears coming from the south. Edmonton spent about $75,000 where as they spent $500,000.
Although Amazon did point out their short comings I heard on another broadcast they did not elaborate on Edmonton’s short comings but they were very interested in certain elements of the bid. Stay tuned.

on the other hand, their 500,000 put a lot more information and awareness in calgarians' heads and hands than ours did. amazon didn't select either canadian city but if a calgarian and an edmontonian end up the bar at an airport bar in california (i know, i know, it sounds like the lead-in to a really bad joke) with a real estate rep for some other software company, which albertan is better equiped to deliver a successful elevator pitch?

[Spudly]

but if a calgarian and an edmontonian end up the bar at an airport bar in california (i know, i know, it sounds like the lead-in to a really bad joke) with a real estate rep for some other software company, which albertan is better equiped to deliver a successful elevator pitch?

If that real estate rep is a Trump supporter, he'll listen to the one that makes the most noise. We've seen the power of "the one that makes the most noise."

[Glenco]

^^Being brash or to big for your britches has never been Edmonton’s style for better or worse. The low key and sincere bid made by Edmonton seems to have made a better impression with Amazon.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1307415
Call me small minded petty or juvenile but I am loving the tears coming from the south. Edmonton spent about $75,000 where as they spent $500,000.
Although Amazon did point out their short comings I heard on another broadcast they did not elaborate on Edmonton’s short comings but they were very interested in certain elements of the bid. Stay tuned.

on the other hand, their 500,000 put a lot more information and awareness in calgarians' heads and hands than ours did. amazon didn't select either canadian city but if a calgarian and an edmontonian end up the bar at an airport bar in california (i know, i know, it sounds like the lead-in to a really bad joke) with a real estate rep for some other software company, which albertan is better equiped to deliver a successful elevator pitch?

I credit Calgary with doing a better job of getting their name out there than Edmonton. Even if they had no chance of winning HQ2, their marketing antics could have other benefits with employees (think tourism; think startups by departing employees), distribution hubs, AI labs and what have you.