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Thread: Edmonton Oilers 2017-18 Season

  1. #301
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    Pretty flakey goal tending interface. Shades of 2017 playoffs.

    There's more officiating accountability then in WWE then the NHL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Pretty flakey goal tending interface. Shades of 2017 playoffs.

    There's more officiating accountability then in WWE then the NHL.
    Looked like a pretty clear interference to me.

    What a snooze fest, though. Switched to Ducks Tampa after. Looked much faster, and way more intensity. Same with Kings Sharks so far.

    McDavid 27:24 ice time. That's ridiculous, especially 2nd game of back to back. 24:18 game before. I wonder if he's getting burned out.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 12-11-2017 at 10:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Pretty flakey goal tending interface. Shades of 2017 playoffs.

    There's more officiating accountability then in WWE then the NHL.
    Looked like a pretty clear interference to me.
    K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Pretty flakey goal tending interface. Shades of 2017 playoffs.

    There's more officiating accountability then in WWE then the NHL.
    Looked like a pretty clear interference to me.
    K.
    I guess maybe Holtby decided diving prior to the shot was a better idea than trying to stop it. Right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Pretty flakey goal tending interface. Shades of 2017 playoffs.

    There's more officiating accountability then in WWE then the NHL.
    Looked like a pretty clear interference to me.
    K.
    I guess maybe Holtby decided diving prior to the shot was a better idea than trying to stop it. Right.
    Yea a goalie has never tried to draw a penalty by exaggerating contact. Right.

  6. #306
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    McDavid, Draisiatl and Nugent-Hopkins are the only players with shooting percentages greater than 10%:

    https://www.nhl.com/oilers/stats
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Pretty flakey goal tending interface. Shades of 2017 playoffs.

    There's more officiating accountability then in WWE then the NHL.
    Looked like a pretty clear interference to me.
    K.
    I guess maybe Holtby decided diving prior to the shot was a better idea than trying to stop it. Right.
    Yea a goalie has never tried to draw a penalty by exaggerating contact. Right.
    A goalie goes down in the hope he gets a call right as someone is shooting? When he was in a position to make a save instead? I don't think so. No goalie with a functioning brain is going to do that.

    Just watched it again, and again. I don't know what you're seeing, but it's as clear as can be. RNH's skate takes Holtby's leg out from under him. Check out the highlights on NHL.com, and tell me again how that's not goalie interference.
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  8. #308

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    Absolutely it was interference and when someone clips the back of your skate like that it can knock you off balance. no reason for Nuge to be going right through the crease there in the first place. It was just him not thinking.

    Agree as well Jimbo at how deathly boring the Caps vs Oilers game was. Just slow and plodding compared to other games being played.
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    Very weak call on the goalie interference. Holtby sold it big time. Take a look at the replay at about 0:55 and it is definitely the side of the blades that made a little bit of contact, but by no means enough to knock him off his feet. I've seen two beginner skaters at public skate knock skate blades together at faster speeds, and still stay on their feet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1uj7o-fmk

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    Holtby sold it for sure, but that goal had to be called back no question. He was in his crease, even if it was more side-by-side contact than a from behind slew foot, it was enough to prevent him from making a save even if he'd managed to keep his balance and stay on his feet. If that was Talbot getting clipped by Oshie, we'd all be losing our minds if they let the goal stand.

    Overall I thought the team looked better on the road, and the trip is something to build off. PK is still horrible, and they're still not getting much from the bottom 6 offensively. But they're at least looking competitive most nights. Hopefully they can build some momentum off it, and some of the bottom half of the lineup find their scoring touch.

    It was good to see Khaira get a goal, and then brutal for him to let Orlov walk in from the point and score a goal. Khaira seems to have everything they're looking for in that he's a big guy with decent hands and wheels, but he seems mail it in half the time. Watch the Orlov goal again and look how outright lazy he is in following him in from the point. Brutal.

  11. #311

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    Good post Marcell. Agreed with everything. I think Pak though should get some credit for really strong play yesterday. he made that goal and did the work leading up to it. Also prevented a GA when he was last man back and made an excellent saving stick sweep check on a breakaway. Paul Coffey couldn't play it better. Pakarinen gets so much criticism for fans for not being much offensively but he has a good shot, is good on the pk, a smart player and in the classic mode of Finns knowing how to play both ends of the ice. He helps the Oilers.
    Pakarinen also hits a lot and the Oilers like his play. Its why he's suiting up every game and the inconsistent Khaira isn't
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    If that was Talbot getting clipped by Oshie, we'd all be losing our minds if they let the goal stand.


    Yeah, no kidding.

    Top_Dawg still giggles at how all the coiler fans were squealing like piggies when Kesler was supposedly ' holding open Talbot's five-hole '.

  13. #313

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    If that was Talbot getting clipped by Oshie, we'd all be losing our minds if they let the goal stand.


    Yeah, no kidding.

    Top_Dawg still giggles at how all the coiler fans were squealing like piggies when Kesler was supposedly ' holding open Talbot's five-hole '.
    In fairness Talbot had to get inoculated for Rabies and tested for STD's after so it was some fair comment. I've seen some of the more disturbing slo mo replay angles..Not sure what Kesler was up to or sniffing around there on a family show..


    ps this post is meant as humor. It is joking. I find I have to point that out regularly on boards.
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    Can't agree with the Dawg on the Kesler/Talbot one. Kesler clearly had his hand on Talbot's pad, pulling it away from his knee for a good 5+ seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGibUFPn6Oo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Absolutely it was interference and when someone clips the back of your skate like that it can knock you off balance. no reason for Nuge to be going right through the crease there in the first place. It was just him not thinking.

    Agree as well Jimbo at how deathly boring the Caps vs Oilers game was. Just slow and plodding compared to other games being played.
    It felt like an afternoon game.

    Did you catch the other two games? Same final score, but lots of action. LA used to take a lot of heat for playing a slow, checking game, but I've never seen it that way. They all skate hard and finish their checks. I really like their game this season, though I'm not sure they have the ponies to keep it up all season.

    The Caps set the (non) pace with their two early powerplays. Utterly predictable repeated slo-mo 20 foot drop passes to defencemen who were just standing there.

    It looked like two really tired teams out there.

    Except maybe for Pakarinen. That back check would be highlight reel material, if it wasn't just goals usually shown. Nurse was good too. He's quickly become 1st pairing guy. Just a beast. He'll still make mistakes, but so does Doughty. On balance, I think Nurse is becoming a really great player.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 13-11-2017 at 02:17 PM.
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  16. #316

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Absolutely it was interference and when someone clips the back of your skate like that it can knock you off balance. no reason for Nuge to be going right through the crease there in the first place. It was just him not thinking.

    Agree as well Jimbo at how deathly boring the Caps vs Oilers game was. Just slow and plodding compared to other games being played.
    It felt like an afternoon game.

    Did you catch the other two games? Same final score, but lots of action. LA used to take a lot of heat for playing a slow, checking game, but I've never seen it that way. They all skate hard and finish their checks. I really like their game this season, though I'm not sure they have the ponies to keep it up all season.

    The Caps set the (non) pace with their two early powerplays. Utterly predictable repeated slo-mo 20 foot drop passes to defencemen who were just standing there.

    It looked like two really tired teams out there.

    Except maybe for Pakarinen. That back check would be highlight reel material, if it wasn't just goals usually shown. Nurse was good too. He's quickly become 1st pairing guy. Just a beast. He'll still make mistakes, but so does Doughty. On balance, I think Nurse is becoming a really great player.
    I did catch the other games. Thank god for HD streams. Man, the Sharks played a splendid game against the Kings. Quite surprising to me in a sense even though they have shown that they have the Kings number since Deboer. The Sharks by the third just had the Kings confounded. it was absolute perfection watching it. No team except Tampa has played the Kings this well and Tampa only did it for one period. The Kings telecast was really getting on Doughty but most of it wasn't his fault. The Sharks were just taking everything away. They made adjustments and started taking control of the game.

    It really was a much better played game as most of the California games are. Those clubs don't use injuries as any excuse, just saying. They are all better than the Oilers right now and playing better. For the Kings the good news is Carter is coming back.

    hey, Brown has 8 goals and two others have been called back. On top of that theres been some splendid playmaking. A recent assist being a real skill in traffic play from the outside. opponents chronically underestimate him. Kopitar back of course having a hilite reel year. Muzzin playing how he can. Iafallo and Kempe look like they can be real good players.

    Tired? yeah, Mclellan always goes with what got him there. Drai and McD are logging long and difficult minutes against constant checking and NZ play.
    Last edited by Replacement; 13-11-2017 at 02:40 PM.
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    I missed both goals in the Oilers game because I nodded off. That doesn't usually happen in a 0-0 game.

    I can't remember seeing a forward log more than 27 minutes in a game. Only Kane sees nearly that much ice time. I know McDavid has unbelievable endurance, but at some point it's got to wear him down. Legs and arms feeling like dead weight.

    Like mine feel after one shift

    And it's got to wear on him mentally too. If it's not working, try something else. Seems logical to me. I'd rather have a fresh McDavid burning up the opposition than a tired horse out there. Draisaitl looks tired too. Doesn't have that spark I'm used to seeing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    Very weak call on the goalie interference. Holtby sold it big time. Take a look at the replay at about 0:55 and it is definitely the side of the blades that made a little bit of contact, but by no means enough to knock him off his feet. I've seen two beginner skaters at public skate knock skate blades together at faster speeds, and still stay on their feet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1uj7o-fmk
    If that's GTI then the on ice officials just gave the caps the game. i thought the Oilers played very well.

    Was that Jesse Puljujarvi?

    I napped through most of the game
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    He played well......you never know, he may get on steady

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    ^ I'm glad PC isn't giving up on this guy. I hope he plays here against VG tomorrow.
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  21. #321

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I missed both goals in the Oilers game because I nodded off. That doesn't usually happen in a 0-0 game.

    I can't remember seeing a forward log more than 27 minutes in a game. Only Kane sees nearly that much ice time. I know McDavid has unbelievable endurance, but at some point it's got to wear him down. Legs and arms feeling like dead weight.

    Like mine feel after one shift

    And it's got to wear on him mentally too. If it's not working, try something else. Seems logical to me. I'd rather have a fresh McDavid burning up the opposition than a tired horse out there. Draisaitl looks tired too. Doesn't have that spark I'm used to seeing.
    I get everything that you are sayng and agree. But none of the above makes sense in McLellan world, just saying. he's never met a horse he doesn't want to run until it drops. First thing Deboer did in SJ was give the vets lots of training days off and give them as much rest as possible through the season so they are as rested for games and playoff games as possible. Suddenly the Sharks are better in the playoffs than ever before, and even beat LA and go all the way to SC final.
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  22. #322

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    Very weak call on the goalie interference. Holtby sold it big time. Take a look at the replay at about 0:55 and it is definitely the side of the blades that made a little bit of contact, but by no means enough to knock him off his feet. I've seen two beginner skaters at public skate knock skate blades together at faster speeds, and still stay on their feet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1uj7o-fmk
    If that's GTI then the on ice officials just gave the caps the game. i thought the Oilers played very well.

    Was that Jesse Puljujarvi?

    I napped through most of the game
    Maybe it was all the excitement of the CFL playoffs but I just couldn't watch the game either without nodding off. Least half a dozen times. So boring of a game. How could a game with McD, dRai, OV, Kusnetzov be that boring?

    McLellan and Trotz, that's how.
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  23. #323

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    McDavid's got a contract worth $100 million. Win, lose or draw, he's set. Any post-season action is peanuts.

    Season Salary Signing Bonus (incl. in salary)
    2018-2019 $15,000,000 $13,000,000
    2019-2020 $15,000,000 $13,000,000
    2020-2021 $14,000,000 $13,000,000
    2021-2022 $13,000,000 $12,000,000
    2022-2023 $12,000,000 $11,000,000
    2023-2024 $11,000,000 $10,000,000
    2024-2025 $10,000,000 $7,000,000
    2025-2026 $10,000,000 $7,000,000

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    4 pts down. 6-2-2 for the rest of the month is good, but not crazy. win 2 out of the next 3 and that's well within reach.
    5 pts down. Now they need to go 6-1-1. Need to put a 3 game win streak in place or better. That's not a whole lot to ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo
    Goal/point wise look where CM is now.


    He's basically on pace with where he was last year. As is Drai, injury aside.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo
    At this stage in his career he's hardly worth the Mega bucks above in my opinion and is putting a lot of stress on these guys.


    He's still on his entry level contract this year:
    https://www.capfriendly.com/players/connor-mcdavid

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo
    To protect NHL teams from losing money like this for "unproven generational hockey stars", (for example) I propose NHL teams (NHLPA) what have you have a 2 year moratorium<(?) on players. in other words the entry level for a player should be for 2 years, not just one.


    Entry level contracts are for 3 seasons.

    You really, really need to spend a few hours educating yourself on how the CBA works in the NHL, prior to voicing your opinion. Because it is not connected with reality in the slightest. We've been telling you this for years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post

    He's basically on pace with where he was last year.



    From what Top_Dawg recalls, McDavid got three goals in the season opener.

    If it wasn't for that game, he wouldn't even be in the leading scorers conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post

    He's basically on pace with where he was last year.



    From what Top_Dawg recalls, McDavid got three goals in the season opener.

    If it wasn't for that game, he wouldn't even be in the leading scorers conversation.
    So? G/A/P can come in bunches in the NHL. As of last game, McDavid is still on pace for 92 points. 97 prior to the Washington game where he was held off the score sheet. He had 100 last year. If the team starts going better and/or the percentages start improving, he could well rack up a bunch of points in short order.

    Keep in mind that the last 20 or so games last year he and Drai went on a tear, as well. Similar to what Kucherov and Stamkos are doing right now. Do we discount those too? Did you crap all over Matthews after scoring 4 in his debut last year too?

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    Cammalleri to Oilers for Jokinen.

    Don't know what LA was thinking on that one, but if anybody knows how to finish, it's Cammalleri. Makes $100K less too. Great move for Oilers, I think. He may not be the player he once was (neither is Jokinen), but he can score.

    Interested to hear Replacement's take on this one.

    According to Jonathan Willis, LA's thinking might be that Cammalleri has 43% Fenwick and 102 PDO. Jokinen 63% Fenwick and 92 PDO. Whatever that means
    Last edited by Jimbo; 14-11-2017 at 07:43 PM.
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    See what happens when you don't play McDavid more than 27 minutes a night, like in Washington?

    Better for everyone. McDavid fresh. Other lines get to find their legs.

    They made Lagace look like a 4th string goalie out there. Oh, wait a minute
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    I like the Cammy move, a lot, disappointed that Joki didn't work out.

    Acceptable.


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    That's 2 surprises today. My fingers are crossed for a 3 game winning streak.

    I hope Cammalleri works out here.

    Apologies for my rant earlier. I deleted the post
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  32. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Cammalleri to Oilers for Jokinen.

    Don't know what LA was thinking on that one, but if anybody knows how to finish, it's Cammalleri. Makes $100K less too. Great move for Oilers, I think. He may not be the player he once was (neither is Jokinen), but he can score.

    Interested to hear Replacement's take on this one.

    According to Jonathan Willis, LA's thinking might be that Cammalleri has 43% Fenwick and 102 PDO. Jokinen 63% Fenwick and 92 PDO. Whatever that means
    The Kings thought they needed Cammaleris speed this season and does still have some but the Kids, Iafallo, and Kempe, imo, have made Cam expendable. Cam also a small player and they don't tend to have much use for those in LA. I never saw the fit in the first place, wasn't sure why LA had Cam back. Better players out there. The Oilers win out in this trade because they need somebody that can play offense (aside from tonight against ECHL level goaltending) So Cam works out better for the Oilers and the Kings will spot use Jokinen kind of like they did with Lecavalier. he might get 2nd unit PP or something like that and the odd shift in topsix. Kind of like how Columbus used Gagner last season. Jokinen can still contribute something but he doesn't have many mins in the tank. If you play old Jokinen 10mins its too much. He has bad knee as well.

    Both teams will get something out of this. WE needed another topsix player. This deal was predicated on neither Jokinen, or Strome being able to fill that role here. I can't help but think theres a Strome trade on the horizon as well.

    Lol at Letestu. What a horrible EV player. Oilers win 8-2 and Letestu again -1. Letestu is really declining as a player. I think he's reached the end of being able to punch over his weight.
    Last edited by Replacement; 15-11-2017 at 12:12 AM.
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    Numbers and salary aside, I think Cammalleri brings more energy and spark to the Oilers lineup.

    Jokinen was invisible. I barely noticed him when he was on the ice.

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    Replacement; Lol at Letestu. What a horrible EV player. Oilers win 8-2 and Letestu again -1. Letestu is really declining as a player. I think he's reached the end of being able to punch over his weight.[/QUOTE]

    Switched from picking on RNH. Wonder why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    WE needed another topsix player.


    Unless he's playing in front of Maroon or Lucic, he isn't playing in the top 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    What a horrible EV player. Oilers win 8-2 and Letestu again -1. Letestu is really declining as a player.


    I wouldn't say he's been horrible, but yeah, he's definitely a special teams specialist. One of the goals last night was blatantly his fault. He chased the puck in to the corner and tried to double team the Vegas player along with whoever the D was. Nurse I believe was left in front of the net with two wide open players and no good options. Bam, in the back of the net. Not sure what Letestu was thinking on that one.

  36. #336

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    Camm will or should be taking Letestu's spot on PP and will likely be put on 3rd line. Maybe its Pakarinin that moves out, but is it down or out of the lineup? He and Khaira seem to be playing better. I see little room for Letestu.
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    He's a left shot. He won't be taking Letestu's spot unless you think he can one time on the backhand.

  38. #338

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    Fine, bring reason into it.
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  39. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Replacement; Lol at Letestu. What a horrible EV player. Oilers win 8-2 and Letestu again -1. Letestu is really declining as a player. I think he's reached the end of being able to punch over his weight.
    Switched from picking on RNH. Wonder why.[/QUOTE]

    I praise whatever players are worthy of the praise. Nuge has joined that with his solid play this season. Nuge did not have a great season and playoffs last season. The difference in performance, aggressive attack, persistent play is night and day. To his credit Nuge has elevated his play this season. We need it.

    Letestu has NEVER been a good EV player here or producer. He stifles EV production. One recent season he had 5EV assists the whole year. Basically if you got Letestu as CEnter EV, you ain't scoring. He's Belanger that way.
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  40. #340

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    WE needed another topsix player.


    Unless he's playing in front of Maroon or Lucic, he isn't playing in the top 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    What a horrible EV player. Oilers win 8-2 and Letestu again -1. Letestu is really declining as a player.


    I wouldn't say he's been horrible, but yeah, he's definitely a special teams specialist. One of the goals last night was blatantly his fault. He chased the puck in to the corner and tried to double team the Vegas player along with whoever the D was. Nurse I believe was left in front of the net with two wide open players and no good options. Bam, in the back of the net. Not sure what Letestu was thinking on that one.
    Oilers before the deal had Maroon, Lucic, RNH, Drai, McD as topsix. Then Pulju with the callup. One would think Cam would be rotated in somewhere on spot duty on topsix and 2nd unit PP rotation. Absolutely he's a better option for this than Letestu.

    Letestu is a player that has overachieved his entire career. Oilers like players like that but he is no talent, and his foot speed is declining. This season his play has been suspect. I do think he's playing about 5lbs over what he should be. Not sure if he tried to beef up or something in the offseason. He needs to be quicker.
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  41. #341

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    He's a left shot. He won't be taking Letestu's spot unless you think he can one time on the backhand.
    One timing as a left shot does not require having to back hand. It just requires being able to hit the net from a worse angle, but on passes across it sometimes works in your favor.

    I could one time from either side of the ice, not sure why people think its untenable. People play off wing lots. Cam has done it before too.

    The 80's oilers, who could all fill the net, perfected being able to shoot on off wing and it was a required part of their play as crossovers were common in their breakouts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    One timing as a left shot does not require having to back hand. It just requires being able to hit the net from a worse angle, but on passes across it sometimes works in your favor.

    I could one time from either side of the ice, not sure why people think its untenable. People play off wing lots. Cam has done it before too.

    The 80's oilers, who could all fill the net, perfected being able to shoot on off wing and it was a required part of their play as crossovers were common in their breakouts.


    This is total nonsense. Unless the Oilers intend on completely re-aligning their PP, he will not be replacing Letestu on the 1st PP unit. Effectively and accurately one timing a pass that comes across your feet is exceedingly difficult, and that is why every shooter on an NHL PP is playing their off wing. And it's why the Oilers are so desperate for right shooting wingers and D, because their surplus of left shots makes it difficult to put together 2 effective PP units.

  43. #343

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    One timing as a left shot does not require having to back hand. It just requires being able to hit the net from a worse angle, but on passes across it sometimes works in your favor.

    I could one time from either side of the ice, not sure why people think its untenable. People play off wing lots. Cam has done it before too.

    The 80's oilers, who could all fill the net, perfected being able to shoot on off wing and it was a required part of their play as crossovers were common in their breakouts.


    This is total nonsense. Unless the Oilers intend on completely re-aligning their PP, he will not be replacing Letestu on the 1st PP unit. Effectively and accurately one timing a pass that comes across your feet is exceedingly difficult, and that is why every shooter on an NHL PP is playing their off wing. And it's why the Oilers are so desperate for right shooting wingers and D, because their surplus of left shots makes it difficult to put together 2 effective PP units.
    Maybe one timing a shot from either wing is difficult for you. Adaptable wingers can play offwing. Simple as that.

    ps have you seen the Oilers PP on most nights? Reworking wouldn't be a completely bad thing, just saying.

    The Oilers work far too many one timers to one side. Should be balanced more anyway for different looks. When you got a guy like Draisaitl that can make perfect passes forehand and backhand why not do it?
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  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Maybe one timing a shot from offwing is difficult for you.


    Name the rink and I'll be happy to take you on 1 on 1. Even though I'm barely 5 months out from ACL reconstruction, I'm not too worried about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Adaptable wingers can play offwing. Simple as that.
    Name me a single player that is regularly used as a trigger man on a powerplay that is shooting across their feet. Just one. Because all of the best PP weapons, whether it be Laine or Ovie or Weber or Seguin or Kucherov or whoever, are one timing from their offwing. This is basic hockey knowledge here, and it's hilarious that you think otherwise.

  45. #345

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Maybe one timing a shot from offwing is difficult for you.


    Name the rink and I'll be happy to take you on 1 on 1. Even though I'm barely 5 months out from ACL reconstruction, I'm not too worried about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Adaptable wingers can play offwing. Simple as that.
    Name me a single player that is regularly used as a trigger man on a powerplay that is shooting across their feet. Just one. Because all of the best PP weapons, whether it be Laine or Ovie or Weber or Seguin or Kucherov or whoever, are one timing from their offwing. This is basic hockey knowledge here, and it's hilarious that you think otherwise.
    In my day I would skate most people out of the rink. I was relentless and pressured always and stripped pucks for fun. I never lost one on one back in the day. I'm 57 now and can't fly anymore. yeah, you'd win easy. I'd be on my *** half the time now laughing at where the years went.

    You are correct in that in present day hockey its less common for players to cross over and one time but it wasn't uncommon back in the day. Gretz could do it, Mess could do it, Anderson, Simpson.

    Hockey today is much more uniform than it was in the 70's or 80's. This is both good and bad. I think its actually limiting in some way as well.

    Saying that a person cannot one time across feet is akin to saying a southpaw shouldn't be able to box. Fact is its harder to do but it sure crosses up opponents a lot.


    The way I learned to one time effectively either wing is dryland training. Simply spending hours playing with tennis ball, net, and two on two play with goalies. Man, that's how you learn to work things like two on ones, getting a shot away consistently, getting it on net. Once you got the mechanics down you apply it to puck.

    You will argue about this one as well but no less than Gretzky says that hockey is far less imaginative now. He sees some of the problem being that hockey is now too formulaic, too set, and less inclined to try other things. Also that hockey players today lack some of the coordination that multi sports athletes have. That kids today that are serious about hockey play only hockey, and don't learn the coordination of multiple sports. So thus not as surprising that less players now can work both wings effectlvely. It used to be an expectation of versatile players.
    Last edited by Replacement; 15-11-2017 at 12:46 PM.
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    So you can't in fact name a single player or PP unit that uses one-timers coming across guys feet. Thanks for confirming.

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    Good day for laughs on here.
    Replacement never disappoints.

    Back in the day I tell ya, I was good...just ask me how good I was.

    Always here really good players of any sport talking about great they were.

  48. #348

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    So you can't in fact name a single player or PP unit that uses one-timers coming across guys feet. Thanks for confirming.
    I named multiple, just not many present day players that I know of that shoot as well or better off wing. But they're certainly are examples.

    heres an interesting article;

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ide-of-the-ice

    This, and Adam Oates preference entirely dispels the universality you are citing but it won't prevent you from claiming you are 100% right. We know that you think that regardless everytime in a discussion with anybody

    Thanks for confirming..

    Heres more just for interest. A pretty good read;

    http://www.nhlspecialteams.com/blog/...the-power-play

    So both strong side and off wing shooters are used in NHL PP commonly enough and no, not backhands either Marcel, they weren't even included in the data.


    Any other fabrications for me to dispel Marcel?
    Last edited by Replacement; 15-11-2017 at 02:31 PM.
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  49. #349
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    Well, this is getting funnier by the minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    I named multiple, just not many present day players that I know of that shoot as well or better off wing. But they're certainly are examples.


    You named a bunch of guys who were great players 20+ years ago, sure. In the modern context with butterfly goaltenders, being able to shoot along the ice with a quick release, which is what half of those guys goals were, is basically irrelevant. Today on the PP, shooters need to be able to pick corners with velocity. Again, that is extremely difficult to do when shooting across your body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    heres an interesting article;

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ide-of-the-ice

    This, and Adam Oates preference entirely dispels the universality you are citing but it won't prevent you from claiming you are 100% right. We know that you think that regardless everytime in a discussion with anybody


    You realize that this article supports what I'm saying, right? It's talking about wingers who have excelled at playing on their off-wing, but in the context of regular 5x5 play. Ovie, for example, has played most of his career as a left wing, despite shooting right. Yakupov was similar, but opposite, in junior. For pure shooters like them, yes, it is absolutely an advantage to be playing on their offwing, since their stick will be facing the passer in the middle of the ice. It is more difficult, however, to pick up pucks off the boards when they're ringed around in the defensive zone. That's why the numbers for D playing on their offside deteriorate so much, as well. It's a rare player who can be effective on breakouts in that situation. Ovie solved that by just flying the zone as much as possible, and scoring so much it offset his terrible play in his own end.

    However, the context is powerplay shooters. Letestu plays on his off wing on the PP. Cammaleri would be on his normal wing if he took his spot. The article you posted entirely supports what I'm saying, and yet you seem to think it doesn't. This is bizarre, and I'm not sure what to tell you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Heres more just for interest. A pretty good read;

    http://www.nhlspecialteams.com/blog/...the-power-play

    So both strong side and off wing shooters are used in NHL PP commonly enough and no, not backhands either Marcel, they weren't even included in the data.


    Are you having a stroke or something? Seriously, stop, go back to the start of this discussion and come back. You've gone back and entirely supported what I was saying, and yet you think you've somehow beaten me in the argument, because apparently you don't know what "offwing" even means.

    I mean seriously, this is the 4th paragraph from the second link:

    On the power play, besides simply shooting at a better angle, playing one’s off-wing allows players to one-time pucks towards the net, which is a huge advantage considering the importance of pre-shot movement and forcing the goalie to shift laterally prior to a chance. On the flip side, the inherent disadvantages to playing one’s off-wing all but disappear when up a man. Defense is a secondary consideration on the power play, the puck should be on the boards as little as possible, and with five players against four, there is more space to stickhandle and step into a shot without the danger of a turnover.
    Am I the only one taking crazy pills around here?
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 15-11-2017 at 04:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC
    Back in the day I tell ya, I was good...just ask me how good I was.


    Hey, I still think I'm pretty good! I was always a stay at home D and never scored much, but I can still hang with CHL/AHL guys who play in AMHL Div 1 in the summer.

  51. #351

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    Its pointless discussing anything with you. You claimed universality, that nobody could come up with any examples of ANY players able to one time either way or schemes even doing that. you claimed such things as no way in hell Cam could replace Letestu on PP even though Cam has played on PP's and one timed shots from either wing.

    I'm really not sure what to say other than this is yet another instance of you being 100% right in your mind.

    The funny thing would be if Cammy slots right into Letestus spot on the PP, as he could, and even taking passes across his skates might be as effective as a plug like Letestu.

    We'll see what happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Its pointless discussing anything with you. You claimed universality, that nobody could come up with any examples of ANY players able to one time either way or schemes even doing that. you claimed such things as no way in hell Cam could replace Letestu on PP even though Cam has played on PP's and one timed shots from either wing.


    Where did I claim "universality", as in other situations outside of power play time? This entire discussion revolved around whether a left shot on the left side of the PP could replace a right shot. I know you love moving the goal posts when you soil yourself in an argument, but I'm not playing that game. Anyone else following this discussion objectively would be laughing at you vehemently disagreeing with me, then posting 2 links that entirely support what I was saying in the first place, and then claiming the win.

  53. #353

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Its pointless discussing anything with you. You claimed universality, that nobody could come up with any examples of ANY players able to one time either way or schemes even doing that. you claimed such things as no way in hell Cam could replace Letestu on PP even though Cam has played on PP's and one timed shots from either wing.


    Where did I claim "universality", as in other situations outside of power play time? This entire discussion revolved around whether a left shot on the left side of the PP could replace a right shot. I know you love moving the goal posts when you soil yourself in an argument, but I'm not playing that game. Anyone else following this discussion objectively would be laughing at you vehemently disagreeing with me, then posting 2 links that entirely support what I was saying in the first place, and then claiming the win.
    The citations do state that the scoring percentage would be slightly higher playing players off wing on the PP. I get that. What you don't seem to get is that you had stated essentially that there is no way an NHL team would have people on a PP one time shots on strong side, and yet they do.

    I don't comprehend what you don't get about that.

    The question you have to ask is whether Letestu offwing is a better option than say a Camm strong side one timer. Not saying that has to be the case of the switch off. Camm can shoot from either wing.

    You stated things like this;

    "So you can't in fact name a single player or PP unit that uses one-timers coming across guys feet. Thanks for confirming."


    You can't see how I replied to that statement? Really?
    Last edited by Replacement; 15-11-2017 at 04:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    You can't see how I replied to that statement? Really?


    No. Because you still haven't named a player or even team whose PP is set up to feed a shooter that is not on the off-wing. Because they don't exist. All of the biggest power play goal scorers are on their off wing. Every. Single. One.

    I'm not talking net-front guys. I'm not talking guys playing on the half wall. I'm talking the trigger men at the face-off dot, on top of the circle, or at the point. Every single team configures their powerplay so that they have at least one, if not two guys positioned on their off wing ready to one-time. The Oilers 1st PP unit has only Letestu in that situation, because Lucic, Drai, McDavid, and Klefbom all shoot left. If you replace Letestu with Cammaleri, they no longer have any viable one timers on their 1st PP unit.

    This is basic, basic powerplay strategy here. And again, both of the links you posted clearly support what I'm saying. It's incredibly ironic that you're denigrating me for insisting I'm always right, when in fact you are far far worse for doing so, even when you are clearly and demonstrably wrong.

    Past that, I don't know what to tell you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ...
    Letestu is a player that has overachieved his entire career...
    if he "overachieved his entire career", then that would be the standard he could play to and he really wouldn't then be overachieving at all would he?
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  56. #356

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    If you think Letestu on offwing is an NHL caliber definition of a PP onetimer relative to what other clubs have I don't know what to tell You. The Onus was on you in this discussion to substantiate why there is now way the Oilers would take Letestu off the PP. That was what you asserted.

    The reality is the Oilers don't really have a reliable one timer winger except when they play Drai on McD's wing. As far as 2nd unit PP it would seem anything is on and Maroon isn't good on the PP as noted.

    I think where we differ is in the notion that Letestu represents any kind of commensurate one time ability as befits playing with the likes of McD, Drai. The reality is the Oilers should have acquired better, much better, and that Letestu is only stopgap in that set.

    Lets see what happens
    Last edited by Replacement; 15-11-2017 at 04:53 PM.
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  57. #357

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ...
    Letestu is a player that has overachieved his entire career...
    if he "overachieved his entire career", then that would be the standard he could play to and he really wouldn't then be overachieving at all would he?
    hehe. nice catch. In hockey parlance theres a lot that gets stated in hockey vernacular that doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny. Albeit I'm reluctant to state that in the moment..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    If you think Letestu on offwing is an NHL caliber definition of a PP onetimer relative to what other clubs have I don't know what to tell You. The Onus was on you in this discussion to substantiate why there is now way the Oilers would take Letestu off the PP. That was what you asserted.


    I asserted that taking him off and replacing him with Cammalleri would be a mistake. And stand by it. If the discussion was whether the Oilers should consider Strome or Pool Party for a try to see if they're a fit, I'd be open to it, although Strome is not known as being much of a shooter. Because they're right shots. This is not difficult to parse for anyone who isn't as thickheaded as you.

    As far as Letestu goes, he actually is quite an effective shooter on the power play. Since starting with the Oilers, he's had 17 PPG in 178 games. See here:
    https://oilersnation.com/2017/04/28/mark-letestu-the-poster-boy-for-the-nhls-secret-power-play-specialists/

    As far as Cammalleri goes in the last 2 full seasons and so far this year (same period as Letestu above), he's got 6 PPG in 118 games. Yet somehow he's the superior player here? Even when he's not shooting on the off-wing? Again, who slipped me the crazy pills?
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 15-11-2017 at 05:06 PM.

  59. #359

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    If you think Letestu on offwing is an NHL caliber definition of a PP onetimer relative to what other clubs have I don't know what to tell You. The Onus was on you in this discussion to substantiate why there is now way the Oilers would take Letestu off the PP. That was what you asserted.


    I asserted that taking him off and replacing him with Cammalleri would be a mistake. And stand by it. If the discussion was whether the Oilers should consider Strome or Pool Party for a try to see if they're a fit, I'd be open to it, although Strome is not known as being much of a shooter. Because they're right shots. This is not difficult to parse for anyone who isn't as thickheaded as you.

    As far as Letestu goes, he actually is quite an effective shooter on the power play. Since starting with the Oilers, he's had 17 PPG in 178 games. See here:
    https://oilersnation.com/2017/04/28/mark-letestu-the-poster-boy-for-the-nhls-secret-power-play-specialists/

    As far as Cammalleri goes in the last 2 full seasons and so far this year (same period as Letestu above), he's got 6 PPG in 118 games. Yet somehow he's the superior player here? Even when he's not shooting on the off-wing? Again, who slipped me the crazy pills?
    Well, at least I don't parse every post with thickheaded, crazy, like you do. To each their own.

    Cammaleri has scored well on the PP in the past, sure, some of that is a long time ago but other than Letestu's outlier performance last season most people would wonder what he's even ever doing on a PP. One has to consider as well that Cam is also a playmaker, can handle the puck.

    Of course you don't mention at all that Letestu has been playing PP with guys like McD and Draisaitl while NJ PP struggled last season. Of course theres no difference there..

    Lets see, best set up guys in the business vs a team last year that couldn't score to save its life. PLUS Letestu also getting more minutes on PP in first place.

    A more acute view of the player Letestu, and what he can actually accomplish out there individually (nothing) is his EV production.
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    Maybe this conversation should be picked up in 20 games so there are stats from each player playing on the Oilers to determine who has done more than the other? There's so much urine in the thread that I'm worried Top Dawg will permanently move in here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ...
    Letestu is a player that has overachieved his entire career...
    if he "overachieved his entire career", then that would be the standard he could play to and he really wouldn't then be overachieving at all would he?
    Good catch there Ken!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Its pointless discussing anything with you. You claimed universality, that nobody could come up with any examples of ANY players able to one time either way or schemes even doing that. you claimed such things as no way in hell Cam could replace Letestu on PP even though Cam has played on PP's and one timed shots from either wing.


    Where did I claim "universality", as in other situations outside of power play time? This entire discussion revolved around whether a left shot on the left side of the PP could replace a right shot. I know you love moving the goal posts when you soil yourself in an argument, but I'm not playing that game. Anyone else following this discussion objectively would be laughing at you vehemently disagreeing with me, then posting 2 links that entirely support what I was saying in the first place, and then claiming the win.
    I guess I'm going to have to go over to Youtube and find all those Ovi power play one-timers he shoots from the right side of the ice.


    I should be back in no time!

  63. #363

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    So lets agree that Camm may have a good shot that the Oil at least want to take a look at on the PP. Can the 'unit' he's employed on (be it McD or Nuge) flip to the other side of the ice? I know that sounds too simple and I'm not implying I know how an NHL PP is structured (appears the Oilers don't know either...lol). But if McDavid and Nuge are on the side wall and both being left handed is it super critical that their stick is pointed to the blue line or goal line?
    Last edited by bpeters; 16-11-2017 at 10:19 AM.
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    Teams rarely make that kind of a change to their PP mid season. That's pretty significant. And again, it would make little sense to field a unit with 5 left shots. He'll probably see some time on the second unit, but doubtful on the 1st, because he's not going to displace the only right shot in Letestu, nor Klefbom/McDavid/Drai, and probably not Lucic.

  65. #365

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    (appears the Oilers don't know either...lol).
    I think we're probably on agreement on this point, heh.

    One wonders if its possible to operate less proficient PP with individuals like McD and Drai on it. That's why my own take is that theres going to be personnel in and out of there and McLellan isn't averse to mixing things up. Camm has 2 PP goals already this year as well. I mean we've had Strome and Caggiulia on the PP at times. What could be worse?
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    So anyway a legit test tonight in the STL Blues. we'll learn a lot about the Oilers status in this game and whether turn around has been achieved. Could sure use some of those goals from the other night. I haven't watched the Blues this year but they are doing well. Although they completely fell apart against the Flames in a recent game.
    Last year we did good against the Blues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    So anyway a legit test tonight in the STL Blues. we'll learn a lot about the Oilers status in this game and whether turn around has been achieved. Could sure use some of those goals from the other night. I haven't watched the Blues this year but they are doing well. Although they completely fell apart against the Flames in a recent game.
    Last year we did good against the Blues.
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    Quite the feat by Sundqvist, he blocked two shots by Klefbom on the powerplay.
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    Wow somehow our first line has gone completely useless.
    Draisatl looks awful.
    Maroon is playing at his pay grade.
    Mcdavid really has no help.

    Letestu looks ten years older than last year.

    JP loiks good so he gets moved down the line up?

    Coaching...

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    Frustrating to watch McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins refuse to shoot the puck on net, even when it looks like they could bury it. Always pass it off.

  71. #371

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    I was at the game, the first 2 periods anyway, and I started cheering for them to pass it around more since they didn't seem inclined to shoot. Kind of a retro Oilers game, and not the good retro.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  72. #372
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    I'm glad I wasn't at this thing. What's wrong with these guys?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    I think most agree with me when I say this team is frustrating to watch. I don't know if it's McLellan not able to adapt or there is too much line juggling so there is no chemistry. The home game vs NJ was I was hoping the turning point in the season but I think they need a bit more time until they somehow are finished "warming up" this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBear View Post
    I think most agree with me when I say this team is frustrating to watch. I don't know if it's McLellan not able to adapt or there is too much line juggling so there is no chemistry. The home game vs NJ was I was hoping the turning point in the season but I think they need a bit more time until they somehow are finished "warming up" this season.
    Don't worry. They will be warmed up by next season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I'm glad I wasn't at this thing. What's wrong with these guys?
    Coaching.

  76. #376

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I'm glad I wasn't at this thing. What's wrong with these guys?
    Coaching.
    I agree. McLellan is super stubborn with not breaking up that top line (who haven't been playing great lately) yet he moves all other players all the time during a game.

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    As in TM?

    He brought the team within striking distance to the Stanley Cup finale. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

    I'm not sure if its the Oilers or maybe the team has a target on their backs instead of numbers. McDavid as MVP, and all the off season drama put the Oilers as "the team to beat." No doubt the Oilers were very successful last year. Maybe they need more team building, I don't know. Maybe they need to learn how to manage success, and this is all part of that process.
    Last edited by envaneo; 17-11-2017 at 11:26 AM.
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  78. #378

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Frustrating to watch McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins refuse to shoot the puck on net, even when it looks like they could bury it. Always pass it off.
    The Nuge pass on the two on 1 was a silly decision. Not sure what he was trying to do there. He's got over 400 games played and he's making that read on a 2 on 1.

    But nothing caps his game like the play in the 3rd where he loses the faceoff, spots Schenn open, has him then lets him go and the puck is at Nuges feet, he waves at it, its poked to Schenn and he scores. Pure panic with Nuge not knowing what to do. But the worst being that ne knew where Schenn was setting up but let him go. Klef being his usual ***** self on the same play. Klef is so bad right now you can't play him anywhere in the lineup.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  79. #379

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    Speaking of toasters. Has anyone seen the Canadian Tire ad with Gretzky and McDavid in regards to toasters that toast their faces on bread. I guess Canadian Tire are selling them and all proceeds are going to their Kick Start program. I think those toasters would be a great Xmas gift for some people. Best joke on the ad: The toasters won 2 Stanley Crusts. Anyway, a nifty product being sold for a good cause. Go Oilers.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    I think it's way cool but I hope the politicians don't catch wind of this. There will be faces of Trudeau, Scheer, Singh, and God knows who else popping up everywhere.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 18-11-2017 at 03:47 AM.

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    I'm having people over later to stare at their phones,if you want to drop by

  82. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Speaking of toasters. Has anyone seen the Canadian Tire ad with Gretzky and McDavid in regards to toasters that toast their faces on bread. I guess Canadian Tire are selling them and all proceeds are going to their Kick Start program. I think those toasters would be a great Xmas gift for some people. Best joke on the ad: The toasters won 2 Stanley Crusts. Anyway, a nifty product being sold for a good cause. Go Oilers.
    I think I saw a toaster with usb that allowed you to load a scanned photo.

    Missed almost all of today's game. It was 3-2 Oilers when I switched it on, listening but not watching, and it wasn't good from there, obviously.

    Watched most of the 3rd. Oil nearly tied on PP. Bishop stones Draisaitl. Dallas get up by 2, and they lock it down.

    McDavid 3 points, but -2, and just over 17 minutes in ice time. Weird.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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    What happened to the Oilers in the third period?!
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    ^ Bishop
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  85. #385

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    Well that's it folks. Somebody stick a fork in it. We can't even beat Dallas who have never discovered D even with Hitchcock as coach. Road trip only gets harder from here. This team just isn't very good. No team depth, desperation to try to get two lines going. Weak kneed defence.

    Taylor Hall laughing about now. Eberle too.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    To be fair, things fell apart with a goal tending change, maybe we should have done the same.

    Can we get Dubnyk back?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Yep, I'm afraid I'm thinking the season is done with. I know its "only" November, but there hasn't been enough change in their play to make me think they've figured it out. I'd love to be wrong in this case, but I don't think I will be.

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    ^ Agreed. After November apparently it gets harder to win games. With three games remaining on this road trip, I hope they can at least get a couple W's.

    10th or 11th place and McDavid top in points playing 500 hockey is all that I'm expecting in April.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    The fact this season is now a disaster starts at the top. PC off seasons moves, or lack of moves have not paid off. We STILL have McTavish and Howson as part of our management team after years of failure. Katz is proving once again to be one of the worst, if not the worst, owner in the NHL by not demanding a winning culture. This team will continue to flounder until ALL of the people from the decade of darkness are dismissed.

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    I think the Oilers trouble this year, isn't management, coaching or any other internal forces at all. The problem this year imo is the team has a target on the Jersey. In other words Oil woes, are external. Other teams want to beat them more. The Oilers with superstar CM and all his accolades make the Oilers the team to beat. Right now the Oilers are learning how to play with their past success, even while it costs them. Its a bitter pill to swallow, but I think necessary. Next year the Oilers will be back better then ever. its called growing pains.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    I'll drink to that.

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