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Thread: Five Days Until Nominations Close for 2017 Municipal Elections

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    Default Five Days Until Nominations Close for 2017 Municipal Elections

    For the love of Sophia !

    Please let more adult candidates with maturity, real world experience and common sense step forward by Nomination Day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    For the love of Sophia !

    Please let more adult candidates with maturity, real world experience and common sense step forward by Nomination Day.
    That's pretty rich coming from a guy who keeps referring to the Mayor as "iVision". How mature of you.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    For the love of Sophia !

    Please let more adult candidates with maturity, real world experience and common sense step forward by Nomination Day.
    I'm guessing that's why you're not running guywhohatesbikes, though I'm kinda surprised, seeing as you like to take law into your own hand, putting up no bike signs that the city takes down later. Yes, I know who you are. Yes I know you've already blocked me on C2E.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    For the love of Sophia !

    Please let more adult candidates with maturity, real world experience and common sense step forward by Nomination Day.
    That's pretty rich coming from a guy who keeps referring to the Mayor as "iVision". How mature of you.
    Wait, what ?

    Someone using the handle "Sonic Death Monkey" calls ME out for immaturity ?

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    Back to the topic.

    Where are the non-WASP candidates?

    Edmonton is incredibly diverse. My 'people' (WASPs) have ruled council for years, but they haven't been serving my needs and wants. I'm ready for change.

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    Here's a link to a page with a photo of the present Mayor and the Councillors standing on the steps of City Hall.

    Do you know why they are all dressed in dark clothes?

    To provide some contrast so as to help them stand out from the white background.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    For the love of Sophia !

    Please let more adult candidates with maturity, real world experience and common sense step forward by Nomination Day.
    That's pretty rich coming from a guy who keeps referring to the Mayor as "iVision". How mature of you.
    Wait, what ?

    Someone using the handle "Sonic Death Monkey" calls ME out for immaturity ?

    LOL!...zing....!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    For the love of Sophia !

    Please let more adult candidates with maturity, real world experience and common sense step forward by Nomination Day.
    That's pretty rich coming from a guy who keeps referring to the Mayor as "iVision". How mature of you.
    Wait, what ?

    Someone using the handle "Sonic Death Monkey" calls ME out for immaturity ?
    Poor deflection. The obvious difference (to everyone else at least) is that he's calling himself that, whereas you are bastardizing someone else's name.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Spudly ?

    Did I pronounce that correctly ?

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    But back to the topic.

    Where are the Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean candidates. How about the Syrian and Somalian ones.

    Omar Khadr, is he eligible to run?

    Time to change things up.

    Given present circumstances, anyone NOT exhibiting the proclivities of a Rob Ford, Nigel Farage or Donald Trump is fine by me.

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    You need only to be a citizen of Canada, right? so the ethnic make-up of eligible potential candidates will lag demographic changes by at least 10 years. Syrians and Somalis are generally not citizens yet.

    In a non-party system like our local government you likely won't see recent immigrants win, not until they are well integrated - and probably people who came here fairly young.

    I don't think that's a huge problem. That said, a bit more diversity would probably be a good thing, especially on the socio-economic spectrum where most of our council is staunchly middle class.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    In a non-party system like our local government you likely won't see recent immigrants win, not until they are well integrated
    How do you suppose some of the current suspects were elected ?

    By appealing successfully to opinion leaders within the various cultural communities.

    Given the low voter turnout amongst the staunchly middle class, I say that the cultural communities should cut out the middleman, put up their own candidates, put out the word about who to vote for and reap the results.

    Can I say that ?

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    For sure, and it might even work if that cultural candidate had a sufficiently mainstream platform to attract at least some votes from outside. Our wards are big enough that it's only in an extremely crowded field that an ethnic community could make it work on their own.
    There can only be one.

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    I know Edmonton is no Vancouver, but take a look at the somewhat more cosmopolitan appearance of their Councillors

    http://vancouver.ca/your-government/...uncillors.aspx

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    Whoa ! Halifax is no model to aspire to.

    https://www.halifax.ca/city-hall/districts-councillors

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    Not having success finding photos for Quebec, Montreal or Toronto.

    Winnipeg City Council appears prominently white/male, but does show some ethnicity and gender:

    http://www.winnipeg.ca/council/

    Edit: Does Mayor Bowman shave yet?

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    Then there is Calgary.

    http://www.calgary.ca/citycouncil/Pa...y-council.aspx

    With three exceptions, it is like looking in the mirror there for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Edit: Does Mayor Bowman shave yet?
    Answer: At 46 yrs of age, probably.

    But !

    I did not know this earlier. He self-identifies as Métis, making him the first mayor of aboriginal descent in the city's history.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Edit: Does Mayor Bowman shave yet?
    Answer: At 46 yrs of age, probably.

    But !

    I did not know this earlier. He self-identifies as Métis, making him the first mayor of aboriginal descent in the city's history.
    what the hell does self identifies as metis means? Aaron paquette is running in ward 4 and in the journal they used these words. You can't self identify as metis. You are or you arent... what is it?

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    Mayor Bowman won by a landslide, reportedly.

    To me, this says that his constituency is completely comfortable with his self-identification.

    Unlike Rachel Dolezal's constituency when she served as President for a NAACP Chapter.

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    While actually saying 'he self identifies' is unnecessary, the fact that he does - and presumably embraces that heritage - is important.

    That he was elected by people who knew him as Metis is significant in the context of a place where a generation or two ago a metis man running for office would have a better chance if he let people assume that he was of European decent.
    There can only be one.

  22. #22

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    so wearing an Indian headdress is cultural appropriation and considered wrong by many but self identifying as metis when you aren't is okay?

    And if he is truely metis why use the word self identifying to describe your heritage.

  23. #23

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tis_in_Canada

    In 2003, the Supreme Court of Canada define Métis as someone who self-identifies as Métis, has an ancestral connection to the historic Métis community, and is accepted by the modern community with continuity to the historic Metis community.
    Perhaps he only ticks the one box & as such doesn't meet the full definition of Métis?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9tis_in_Canada

    In 2003, the Supreme Court of Canada define Métis as someone who self-identifies as Métis, has an ancestral connection to the historic Métis community, and is accepted by the modern community with continuity to the historic Metis community.
    Perhaps he only ticks the one box & as such doesn't meet the full definition of Métis?
    Well, I brought this train wreck down on my own thread, now, didn't I.

    As intimated earlier, I do not doubt the man's claim to his identity. The little I know about the issue informs me of its complexity. The growing awareness and activism in the indigenous community regarding identity assures me that someone who fraudulently claims certain ancestry is likely to be held to account. If not immediately, then eventually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Back to the topic.

    Where are the non-WASP candidates?

    Edmonton is incredibly diverse. My 'people' (WASPs) have ruled council for years, but they haven't been serving my needs and wants. I'm ready for change.
    There's no shortage of non-white candidates. Maybe they're not good enough to win elections. One of the last ones was so good he's now the minister of infrastructure.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    i dont doubt he is metis nor do I doubt Aaron paquette running in ward 4. I just find it a very weird way to describe someones heritage.

    It's opening the door up to allowing someone to self identify as any ancestry they want...

    Does anyone here explain their heritage by saying they identify as German, or identify as Dutch. No.. you are German or dutch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    There's no shortage of non-white candidates.
    "No shortage"?

    The pickings look pretty white from my vantage point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz
    One of the last ones was so good he's now the minister of infrastructure.
    I will keep my recollection of Mr Sohi during his tenure on City Council to myself.

    Instead, I'll just say I welcome the participation of more candidates of south asian heritage.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    For the love of Sophia !

    Please let more adult candidates with maturity, real world experience and common sense step forward by Nomination Day.
    That's pretty rich coming from a guy who keeps referring to the Mayor as "iVision". How mature of you.
    Calling Iveson "IVision" is a compliment to what some people call him.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  29. #29

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    Mé·tis
    māˈtēs/
    noun
    noun: Metis; plural noun: Metis; noun: Métis; plural noun: Métises

    • 1.
      (especially in western Canada) a person of mixed American Indian and Euro-American ancestry, in particular one of a group of such people who in the 19th century constituted the so-called Métis nation in the areas around the Red and Saskatchewan rivers.


      So if someone who is of mixed American Indian and Euro-American ancestry wants to identify with his/her metis side of the family what is wrong with that?. The guy/girl just says they are Metis rather than say European.



    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  30. #30

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    ^this is the thing.. that makes you metis. You dont self identify... you are who you are. What kind of person uses a non sense way to describe themselves that way.

    When you see someone self identifying themself its for something they arent..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    For the love of Sophia !

    Please let more adult candidates with maturity, real world experience and common sense step forward by Nomination Day.
    That's pretty rich coming from a guy who keeps referring to the Mayor as "iVision". How mature of you.
    Calling Iveson "IVision" is a compliment to what some people call him.
    Isn't it though, I've heard far worse!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    I know Edmonton is no Vancouver, but take a look at the somewhat more cosmopolitan appearance of their Councillors

    http://vancouver.ca/your-government/...uncillors.aspx
    Their mayor always seems like he's on something, then there is all the stuff with his girlfriends mother....http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/b...tion-1.3696400

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    But back to the topic.

    Where are the Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean candidates. How about the Syrian and Somalian ones.

    Omar Khadr, is he eligible to run?

    Time to change things up.

    Given present circumstances, anyone NOT exhibiting the proclivities of a Rob Ford, Nigel Farage or Donald Trump is fine by me.
    Omar Khadar, are you on some kind if stupid pills?

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ^this is the thing.. that makes you metis. You dont self identify... you are who you are. What kind of person uses a non sense way to describe themselves that way.

    When you see someone self identifying themself its for something they arent..
    Maybe the reason he 'self identifies' a metis is that he maybe was brought up in a metis setting. Say if a person was born in South Africa because one of their parents is from there and the other one is from Ireland. Maybe when asked that person might say I was born in South Africa but brought up in Ireland so I consider myself Irish rather than South African. Or the new way of saying it is "I identify myself as Irish as that is the culture I know and was brought up in".
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    There's no shortage of non-white candidates.
    "No shortage"?

    The pickings look pretty white from my vantage point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz
    One of the last ones was so good he's now the minister of infrastructure.
    I will keep my recollection of Mr Sohi during his tenure on City Council to myself.

    Instead, I'll just say I welcome the participation of more candidates of south asian heritage.
    So what's the beef that it appears just whitie is applying for the mayors job. People cant just go into minority groups and force them to throw their hat into the ring.
    Sure it would be nice to see some diversity at city hall but if people don't come forward its going to be what its going to be.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    While actually saying 'he self identifies' is unnecessary, the fact that he does - and presumably embraces that heritage - is important.

    That he was elected by people who knew him as Metis is significant in the context of a place where a generation or two ago a metis man running for office would have a better chance if he let people assume that he was of European decent.


    We may think we're so open minded today compared to those of the past and it's likely generally so, but we have to be careful about stereotyping all those of past generations.

    Skim through these lists. It's quite interesting.


    List of electoral firsts in Canada - Wikipedia

    "First Métis Canadian elected to the House of Commons: Pierre Delorme, Conservative, MP Provencher, Manitoba 1871–1872"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...rsts_in_Canada

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    so wearing an Indian headdress is cultural appropriation and considered wrong by many but self identifying as metis when you aren't is okay?

    And if he is truely metis why use the word self identifying to describe your heritage.
    I don't understand what the issue here is, huge numbers of Canadians likely have aboriginal roots. The fur traders often married native women and their children helped populate much of the country. I'd read that not all too long ago it was estimated that half of Alberta's population had aboriginal roots.

    Anyway:

    Brian Bowman, Winnipeg's new mayor, proud to be Métis - Manitoba - CBC News

    "...Bowman said his Métis roots come from his mother's side of the family, which has some Cree ancestry.

    "We've always been identifying as Métis — family members, my sister, my cousins, they all have their Métis card. I've never actually got my Métis card, but yeah, that's where it comes from," he said.

    Bowman said while he's always proud to be Métis, he did not tout his heritage as a selling point during the election campaign.

    "I've always been comfortable telling people that I'm Métis. But at the same time, I'm a Winnipegger first and foremost, and I want everybody to be proud of their heritage wherever they come from and know that Winnipeg is a place where dreams can come true," he said. ..."


    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/m...étis-1.2810793




    Officials expect to be ‘swamped’ with people claiming Métis heritage and benefits | National Post

    "...
    Many people consider themselves Métis just because there’s native blood somewhere in their family tree, he said: “That does not a Métis make.’’

    Métis are people of mixed native and European ancestry who can trace their lineage to the families who lived in revolutionary Red River colonies. Over time, these groups came to encompass settlements in B.C., the prairies, Ontario, the Northwest Territories and the U.S.

    “In order to be Métis, you have to self-identify, you believe you are a Métis person,” said Métis Nation of Alberta president Audrey Poitras. “Then there’s a process of establishing a historical link, a link to the Métis homeland way back in the 1800s when we flew the first flag in 1816 and declared ourselves a Métis nation.” ..."


    http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...e-and-benefits


    The complex issue of indigenous heritage | Toronto Star

    Rousseau had distant links with the First Nations, as one of his distant ancestors in the early period of New France was the daughter of Etienne Pigarouich, a 17th century First Nations spiritual leader.

    Based on the 120 official marriages contracted between First Nations and non-Aboriginals in the French period, he calculated in 1970 that over 40 per cent of French Canadians had at least one North American Indian ancestor in their family trees. Rousseau never claimed he was native on account of his Aboriginal link, but he was very proud of his tie with Pigarouich.

    It has been established incidentally that both Maurice Duplessis and René Lévesque, both former Quebec premiers, had an “Indian” ancestor, back in the days of the French Regime.

    Many examples of individuals claiming distant North American Indian ancestry can be cited, Winston Churchill being one. The leader of Britain in the Second World War was half American by birth and very proud of it. Was the great British Prime Minister’s great-great grandmother, on the side of his American mother, Jennie Jerome, Iroquois?

    ..."

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...-heritage.html


    Bolding mine
    Last edited by KC; 15-09-2017 at 12:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    But back to the topic.

    Where are the Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean candidates. How about the Syrian and Somalian ones.

    Omar Khadr, is he eligible to run?

    Time to change things up.

    Given present circumstances, anyone NOT exhibiting the proclivities of a Rob Ford, Nigel Farage or Donald Trump is fine by me.
    Omar Khadar, are you on some kind if stupid pills?
    No.

    He'd fit right in on Council in Leftmonton.

    Mayor's Chair might even be in reach; if not this term, then next. Could be awkward travelling to the US, mind.

    What's your problem w/ Khadr?

    • Canadian Citizen, born in Toronto.
    • Edmonton resident since 2015.
    • Some troubles during his youth while overseas.
    • Tortured by a foreign power.
    • Signed a confession to obtain a release from tormentors known to use techniques such as Water-boarding and others.
    • Subsequently sentenced as a minor.
    • Served sentence.
    • Received an apology and $10.5 million settlement from the Cdn Federal Gov't for its part in abuses of his rights.
    Last edited by mseaver; 15-09-2017 at 02:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    But back to the topic.

    Where are the Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean candidates. How about the Syrian and Somalian ones.

    Omar Khadr, is he eligible to run?

    Time to change things up.

    Given present circumstances, anyone NOT exhibiting the proclivities of a Rob Ford, Nigel Farage or Donald Trump is fine by me.
    Omar Khadar, are you on some kind if stupid pills?
    No.

    He'd fit right in on Council in Leftmonton.

    Mayor's Chair might even be in reach; if not this term, then next. Could be awkward travelling to the US, mind.

    What's your problem w/ Khadr?

    • Canadian Citizen, born in Toronto.
    • Edmonton resident since 2015.
    • Some troubles during his youth while overseas.
    • Tortured by a foreign power.
    • Signed a confession to obtain a release from tormentors known to use techniques such as Water-boarding and others.
    • Subsequently sentenced as a minor.
    • Served sentence.
    • Received an apology and $10.5 million settlement from the Cdn Federal Gov't for its part in abuses of his rights.
    I have lots of problems with him. Seems the court still does as well, turned him down for wanting to see his hateful sister!

  40. #40

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    Sounds like somone likes him well enough: "During the hearing, several other bail conditions were eased or altered."
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  41. #41

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    I do not want someone that doesn't know what makes cities work running for council. No more Jan Reimers, Tooker Gombergs and tin foil hatters please.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    But back to the topic.

    Where are the Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean candidates. How about the Syrian and Somalian ones.

    Omar Khadr, is he eligible to run?

    Time to change things up.

    Given present circumstances, anyone NOT exhibiting the proclivities of a Rob Ford, Nigel Farage or Donald Trump is fine by me.
    Omar Khadar, are you on some kind if stupid pills?
    No.

    He'd fit right in on Council in Leftmonton.

    Mayor's Chair might even be in reach; if not this term, then next. Could be awkward travelling to the US, mind.

    What's your problem w/ Khadr?

    • Canadian Citizen, born in Toronto.
    • Edmonton resident since 2015.
    • Some troubles during his youth while overseas.
    • Tortured by a foreign power.
    • Signed a confession to obtain a release from tormentors known to use techniques such as Water-boarding and others.
    • Subsequently sentenced as a minor.
    • Served sentence.
    • Received an apology and $10.5 million settlement from the Cdn Federal Gov't for its part in abuses of his rights.
    Not sure what you are getting at with this thread or what your end game is. Most of us don't know why minorities are not running for mayor or council as I'm sure there are plenty of capable people out there. I know in other cities their are representatives from minorities sitting on council (look no further than Calgary). I suppose Omar Khadar could run for mayor or council but I really don't think he wants to. Why would he put up with more anger and hate that has already been directed at him. Him running for council would be just as stupid as you asking the question in the first place.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    I do not want someone that doesn't know what makes cities work running for council. No more Jan Reimers, Tooker Gombergs and tin foil hatters please.
    Well said, Jan Reimer, ugh!

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    I do not want someone that doesn't know what makes cities work running for council. No more Jan Reimers, Tooker Gombergs and tin foil hatters please.
    What makes cities work.

    Your thoughts on Perves, Dent, Smith, Decore... ?

  45. #45

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    Reimer, did'nt she refuse to wear the mayor chain of office, that thing that went round a neck. What was the reason behind that?. So good she has a school named after her, pfffffffffffft.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Reimer, did'nt she refuse to wear the mayor chain of office, that thing that went round a neck. What was the reason behind that?. So good she has a school named after her, pfffffffffffft.
    It was an old dead beaver. I don't blame her.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  47. #47

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    ^Yeah but is the beaver fur supposed to be a reminder of Fort Edmonton's fur trading history. Although fur trading was a big business then and we all know Reimer was not much good for any businesses in the city.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    Say (well, think) what you want about Kadhr, there is no denying:

    1. The man has mad political survival skilz.
    2. He has powerful connections.


    I'd like to see any of the keyboard warriors at C2E do a stint at Camp Guantanamo Bay.

    All indications from what I see here and what has been published about GBDC suggests to me that the boys there would have any of you admitting to the most heinous acts in no time at all.

    That OK survived all he went through and managed to exit in the manner in which he did speaks volumes.

    Excuse me, there's someone at the door ...

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    Look, it is easy to deal with business people when you always answer 'Yes, we'll foot that expense and bill the taxpayers for it. Any profit from this deal is yours to keep, losses will be our problem and tacked onto the mill rate.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    Say (well, think) what you want about Kadhr, there is no denying:

    1. The man has mad political survival skilz.
    2. He has powerful connections.


    I'd like to see any of the keyboard warriors at C2E do a stint at Camp Guantanamo Bay.

    All indications from what I see here and what has been published about GBDC suggests to me that the boys there would have any of you admitting to the most heinous acts in no time at all.

    That OK survived all he went through and managed to exit in the manner in which he did speaks volumes.

    Excuse me, there's someone at the door ...
    And now damaged goods.

    Seems that a lot of 'driven' people in reality have secret lives and/or otherwise really messed up backgrounds. Maybe that's their motivator to chase some kind of public stature tohide behind. Possibly that's the motivator to become famous or attain respected' positions, to perpetuate twisted behaviour- like the priests, nuns etc that abused kids. (They look great at the job then they go home at the end of the day a beat or berate their kids or spouse or sexually assault kids, coworkers accessible via their authoritative pisitions... the list seems endless. ).
    Last edited by KC; 15-09-2017 at 06:45 PM.

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    What do you mean, "And now damaged goods."

    Like these people who were also embroiled in conflict, imprisoned, tortured in some cases?

    • Nelson Mandela
    • Ang Sung Su Kyi
    • Menachem Begin
    • John McCain
    • Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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    Perhaps I could have included Amarjeet Sohi in the foregoing list.

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    Everyone is different but I sure wouldn't want to push anyone into politics when they are likely suffering from trauma. If they seek out such a role purely on their own timing then all the best. Moreover, we'd all hope for a desire, aptitude and experience to take on elected office.

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    On that we can agree.

    So far as I know, he has served w/ distinction. Yet, that Roméo Dallaire was appointed and accepted the role of Canadian Senator seems cruel, considering the long term, recurring personal tribulations faced following his ghastly experience in Rwanda.
    Last edited by mseaver; 15-09-2017 at 10:38 PM.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    What do you mean, "And now damaged goods."

    Like these people who were also embroiled in conflict, imprisoned, tortured in some cases?

    • Nelson Mandela
    • Ang Sung Su Kyi
    • Menachem Begin
    • John McCain
    • Alexander Solzhenitsyn
    Well, personally, I wouldn't have wanted Solzhenitsyn anywhere near elected office. Nor Menachem Begin, but we didn't have much choice on that one.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mseaver View Post
    What do you mean, "And now damaged goods."

    Like these people who were also embroiled in conflict, imprisoned, tortured in some cases?

    • Nelson Mandela
    • Ang Sung Su Kyi
    • Menachem Begin
    • John McCain
    • Alexander Solzhenitsyn
    Well, personally, I wouldn't have wanted Solzhenitsyn anywhere near elected office. Nor Menachem Begin, but we didn't have much choice on that one.
    Well, perhaps your tastes run more towards one of Solzhenitsyn's soviet contemporaries, Lavrenti Beria.

    Despite imprisonments, depravations and attempts on his life, Solzhenitsyn died of old age in his own bed. Beria, who had every advantage while leading a life of privilege, intrigue and cruelty was not so lucky.

    Solzhenitsyn loved his country, he disagreed with the way people ran it.

    Begin also serves as a counter-point to KC's remark about damaged goods.

    Ironically, after imprisonment and torture by the soviets on the grounds Begin was a British agent, he came to be viewed as a terrorist by Britain for organizing and participating in acts beside which OK's pale in comparison. Yet, without Begin, the State of Israel may not have come into existance. Although a radical and a thorn in the side of more moderate members of the Israeli establishment, Begin worked within the system and became Prime Minister. His time as PM is marked by numerous domestic and foreign policy achievements. Perhaps foremost among many honours, Begin was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize jointly w/ Egypt's Anwar Sadat.

    Not bad for so-called damaged goods.

    Edit: changed attribution for the remark about damaged goods to KC from overoceans
    Last edited by mseaver; 16-09-2017 at 03:07 PM.

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    I think we tend to be happiest when we just have some practical people running things at a City Hall while leaving the big human rights, environmental and other battles to Provincial and Federal candidates. (Take Churchill. While he was great at war and even advanced worker rights early on, his fiscal management skills were severely lacking. Pierre Trudeau, another ideologue that subtracted rather than added to Canada's fiscal and other, non-human rights, related conditions.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I think we tend to be happiest when we just have some practical people running things at a City Hall ...
    Ahh, "practical."

    There's a loaded word when applied to a politician.

    Nominations closed a few days ago. Amongst my initial impressions I can say I am happy Ward 1 didn't go uncontested. Amongst those aspiring to public office for the first time, none stand out with compelling credentials. Didn't stop a 28 yo with no meaningful real world experience from getting his toe in the door ten years ago, though, did it.

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