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Thread: Falcon Towers | 175 m and 145 m | Proposed

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    Default Falcon Towers | 175 m and 145 m | Proposed

    Posted by Daveography - Langham to EDC Nov 21 - pre-consult


    www.twitter.com/daveography
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    That would fill a big hole. Yay.
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

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    Yeah, really good potential there. Oddly shaped site, though.

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    Will be great to have another surface parking lot die, if this proceeds. 104th Street needs the help south of Jasper.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

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    Can you say what their plans are or is it hush-hush right now? I'd love to see a tower there.

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    Almost certainly another Fox/Icon-style tower or towers, I would imagine.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

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    Langham is going to dictate the lease rates for more than half the available retail space on this 3 block stretch on 104 st at this rate

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    Is that alley going away? Or will it be two separate developments?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    There's no actual municipal alley there I don't believe, that's just Google's overlay that happens to be inaccurate.

    edit: actually, looks like there might actually be one after all.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 02-11-2017 at 02:04 PM.

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    Doesn't look like there are a lot of properties accessed from the alley, though. All the parkades have their own entrances from the street.
    There can only be one.

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    Podium could be a great place for ....


    I'll show my self out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    Can you say what their plans are or is it hush-hush right now? I'd love to see a tower there.
    Actually there is a plan for Two Towers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Podium could be a great place for ....


    I'll show my self out.
    Ha!

    Actually, it could be a much better place than fox, for a few reasons.
    -It's out of the area where 4-story podiums are required, correct? So expect a 2-story podium with all parking underground. That could allow deeper CRUS, or even a full-depth 2-story CRU comparable in size to the Craft space. If they talk before the design is finalized there could be room for all kinds of cool things.
    -Not corner, so less frontage in a single establishment.

    We'll see.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    Almost certainly another Fox/Icon-style tower or towers, I would imagine.
    I hope they throw away that cookie cutter this time.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by nunuangel99 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    Can you say what their plans are or is it hush-hush right now? I'd love to see a tower there.
    Actually there is a plan for Two Towers
    Beauty! Do we know heights?

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    Doesn't look like they've submitted a rezoning application yet and the EDC presentation is a pre-consult which is closed to the public so it's probably all hush-hush for now. I'm assuming by the meeting date something will need to be submitted to the city so there may be more details publicly available by then.

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    I had heard potentially three towers.

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    That map is incorrect. These are the correct lots:


    https://twitter.com/mc_gratton/statu...184832/photo/1
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    Three towers would be super tight. In scale these lots are the same size as Icon I/Icon II.
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    ^I don't think we'll see three towers - Fox Towers 'got away' with two towers, highly unlikely Planning will let that fly today. Excellent to see these lands chewed up. South 4th has some excellent potential.

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    ^^^correct as a matter of fact.
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    What's going to happen to Freemason Hall?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    ^I don't think we'll see three towers - Fox Towers 'got away' with two towers, highly unlikely Planning will let that fly today. Excellent to see these lands chewed up. South 4th has some excellent potential.
    Fair enough, just repeating what I had heard. Depending on the height there will be some nice south views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    What's going to happen to Freemason Hall?
    Nothing?

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    It'll be good to get some more activity south of Jasper Ave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    What's going to happen to Freemason Hall?
    Nothing?
    Evening shade.
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    That Impark lot at 103 St - 100 Ave should be next to go. I know I'm getting ahead of myself but that's a prime spot to develop too.

    Looking forward to seeing what happens with the 104 St - 100 Ave.

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    ^^nothing.

    Also, the above map is not quite accurate. These lots are along 104st from the paved surface lot south to 100ave.

    I cannot wait to have some additional retail/food/bev/amenity options south of Jasper, they are desperately needed.
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    ^You're saying 10027 is not included?
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    The price of the land sale was strong, good to see land values hold downtown despite a lot of product being built.

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    I suppose.

    But it would be even better to have falling land prices with lots of sellers, so the end product can be less expensive. Or maybe slightly larger suites.
    There can only be one.

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    ^Problem is that would only happen if it was clear there was no market for new buildings downtown.

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    Land value is not a significant factor in the final cost of large, high-rise multi-unit projects. Or at least, in Edmonton it's not as significant as you'd think. Probably less than 10% of the overall budget for most projects here. So even if land value went down by a really significant amount, it would have a negligible impact on the sale price of condos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I suppose.

    But it would be even better to have falling land prices with lots of sellers, so the end product can be less expensive. Or maybe slightly larger suites.
    The market is in equilibrium right now. I've experienced a loss in my values but I know it's good for new purchasers too. You don't want any kind of market collapse because there's too groups of people to think about - existing property owners being the latter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Land value is not a significant factor in the final cost of large, high-rise multi-unit projects. Or at least, in Edmonton it's not as significant as you'd think. Probably less than 10% of the overall budget for most projects here. So even if land value went down by a really significant amount, it would have a negligible impact on the sale price of condos.
    It's all relative. This site sold for around $400/SF which is SIGNIFICANT. Some will say he overpaid however when you look at this from a development perspective it secures land for a multi-phased project that he can develop over a 5-7+ year period. He then controls that block.

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    ^That's interesting to know.

    So that would probably amount to something like $50/sf of their built product, pretty close to Marcel's 10%. That's a bit less than I might have thought - I recall some chat on here about one of those re-zone& flip parcels in oliver being on the market for something like $100/sf or $100,000 per unit, which is into the range where it'll make a huge difference to what can be built and marketed.

    It's crazy to hear about land in Vancouver going for $200++/sf buildable, or in NYC for $500/sf buildable, but prime manhattan locations the finished product can go for well over $2000/sf so it's all relative.
    There can only be one.

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    ^Magnum Group in Van last week just finished selling a whole project of millions at $300sf buildable in 3 days. Good to see this lot sold at such a price.
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    Langham sites - 10019-104st/10318A-100Ave:

    Key Design Features:

    - 2 slim, non-identical towers with ~650 units
    - Heights in the 30s and 40s respectively
    - A focus on the continuation of the 4th street promenade/experience
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    ^Good to hear. I'm curious to see what Kennedy designs here.

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    ^^ heights in the 30s and 40s in respect to what?

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    One being 30+ stories, the other 40+ stories.
    ... gobsmacked

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    “There will be two towers one in the 30s and one in the 40s.”
    “There will be two towers one red and one yellow and be in the 30s and 40s respectively.”
    The second sentence means the red tower will be in the 30s and the yellow tower will be in the 40s.
    From what Ian is saying I want to know in respect to what.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Langham sites - 10019-104st/10318A-100Ave:

    Key Design Features:

    - 2 slim, non-identical towers with ~650 units
    - Heights in the 30s and 40s respectively
    - A focus on the continuation of the 4th street promenade/experience
    Was really hoping for you to have a note which indicated something like this:
    - NO white stucco in tower designs
    - NO punched out windows in tower designs
    - NO stucco period in tower designs...

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    Quote Originally Posted by millwoods View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Langham sites - 10019-104st/10318A-100Ave:

    Key Design Features:

    - 2 slim, non-identical towers with ~650 units
    - Heights in the 30s and 40s respectively
    - A focus on the continuation of the 4th street promenade/experience
    Was really hoping for you to have a note which indicated something like this:
    - NO white stucco in tower designs
    - NO punched out windows in tower designs
    - NO stucco period in tower designs...
    +1

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    Unlikely with the new energy codes we will see all window wall. But we'll see.

    Information IanO is providing is from a letter from Kennedy Architecture. We have no more details at this time.
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    Correct. More to come I suppose.
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    Exactly, high energy efficient residential towers have punched windows and that's the way the industry is dealing with the changes in many regards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Langham sites - 10019-104st/10318A-100Ave:

    Key Design Features:

    - A focus on the continuation of the 4th street promenade/experience
    They will continue with Dog Pizz Yellow brick and Discount Cream stucco facades? Can't wait. Or does the continuation of the promenade experience mean closing 104st for 3 years because they can't figure out how to do hoarding?
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    ^New rules require proper pedestrian access during construction, they will have to do something similar to Encore or how Mayfair North was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    ^New rules require proper pedestrian access during construction, they will have to do something similar to Encore or how Mayfair North was.
    Yes they will. The hoarding at Fox was the tipping point that forced the City to change how they treat sidewalk closures in pedestrian-oriented districts.

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    Fox was somewhat brutal, but not as bad as the Ice District...basically two sections where 2 full blocks are unavailable to pedestrians. Now that everything is at grade, the south edge of 104 Avenue should allow for ped movements. Help facilitate those trying to get to Edmonton Tower walking from the west.

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    Meeting with the applicant tomorrow morning to learn more.
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    You should encourage them to buy and develop the space north of the Freemasons Hall while they're at it!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Good meeting with Kennedy this morning. Not much to report other than that they're working through the DC application right now.
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    Exciting times and some good ideas being put forward.
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    so is this going to be Icons copy/paste?
    it would certainly be a "continuation of the 4th street promenade/experience"

    or has Kennedy gotten better since the BZKA days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Exciting times and some good ideas being put forward.
    I've lived here a long time and 104 St has really come a long ways from being a collection of parking lots to a lots of nice buildings and retail spaces. Hopefully this will be a continuation of all that.

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    UPCOMING APPLICATIONS, CONFLICTS AND REGRETS [April 10 & 17, 2018]

    Langham Towers - 100 Ave and 104 Street NW
    Pre-consultation
    Nola Kilmartin - Kennedy Creates

    https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...018_Agenda.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    UPCOMING APPLICATIONS, CONFLICTS AND REGRETS [April 10 & 17, 2018]

    Langham Towers - 100 Ave and 104 Street NW
    Pre-consultation
    Nola Kilmartin - Kennedy Creates

    https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...018_Agenda.pdf
    Just got the package last Friday, still very conceptual but I like what I see!

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    Very Toronto.
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    Quote Originally Posted by millwoods View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Langham sites - 10019-104st/10318A-100Ave:

    Key Design Features:

    - 2 slim, non-identical towers with ~650 units
    - Heights in the 30s and 40s respectively
    - A focus on the continuation of the 4th street promenade/experience
    Was really hoping for you to have a note which indicated something like this:
    - NO white stucco in tower designs
    - NO punched out windows in tower designs
    - NO stucco period in tower designs...
    I'm just going to leave this here......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    UPCOMING APPLICATIONS, CONFLICTS AND REGRETS [April 10 & 17, 2018]

    Langham Towers - 100 Ave and 104 Street NW
    Pre-consultation
    Nola Kilmartin - Kennedy Creates

    https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...018_Agenda.pdf
    Just got the package last Friday, still very conceptual but I like what I see!
    Here's my hope:
    • Strong, big podiums (not one or two stories for we will never make a streetwall that way)
    • Contemporary design (including of podiums)
    • Towers not to be twins of each other unless they together form a kind of sculptural language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Very Toronto.
    Very 1 bloor :>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Very Toronto.
    Very 1 bloor :>
    would be nice, but I somehow doubt it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Posted by Daveography - Langham to EDC Nov 21 - pre-consult


    www.twitter.com/daveography
    Just a suggestion, IanO, why not replace this incorrect map with a corrected one ?

    I only say this because it's post #1 in the string so is what any newcomer will immediately see and logically there's no reason to have them misinformed from the beginning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Very Toronto.
    Very 1 bloor :>
    would be nice, but I somehow doubt it....
    I see it differently. What they have put up so far has been far from par with competing local developings. Their products have demonstrated inferiority in terms of quality for relatively similarity prices; and They need to prove themselves as other projects- completed and on line for construct- have surpassed them. If they cant compete... They have no choice, so I can see why the TO/Bloorish innuendos.
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    Is there any timeline for this project?
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    ^EDC very soon and then DP applications.
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    ^ This is great.

    According to the image in #18 above, looks like there's room for 2 nice sized towers.
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    There is indeed...
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    Now if only the location across from the Masonic hall in that empty lot could get some developing love.
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    This was an expensive purchase, so I imagine they want to get into the ground very quickly.

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    ^ Like Ian said EDC very soon and then DP application. I'm hoping maybe in the fall.
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    Heard these two towers are planned to be 45 and 54 storeys tall.

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    Does this include the parking lot adjacent to Freemason's Hall?
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    Yes. On the west side of the hall between Freemasons and Holiday Inn will house one tower, the other just to the north I believe Evo.

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    ^ Thanks. I think that chunk of land is owned by iMpark or leased to them by the city.

    Poor Masonic hall. They're getting squeezed out since the funeral home.
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    Squeezed out? Ummm, the land they own is still theirs. They just have neighbours that aren’t gravel parking lots. The value of their land is increasing too. Why the hell are you saying “poor Masonic hall?” I guarantee you you’re the only one feeling that way... and maybe those who are sad to see their cheap parking disappear. In the end, this is all around positive for the entire block.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Thanks. I think that chunk of land is owned by iMpark or leased to them by the city.

    Poor Masonic hall. They're getting squeezed out since the funeral home.
    Aren't you a member of the masons you said?

    The masonic hall is a beautiful historical structure. I think having better neighbours will compliment it, not harm it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Heard these two towers are planned to be 45 and 54 storeys tall.
    Not bad... 50 is the new 30 in E town.

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    Isn't it awesome. Should have gotten rid of that airport 40 years ago.

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    The Free Mason Hall needs some love/repairs/investment, but this development will contribute to its place of being, not push it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Thanks. I think that chunk of land is owned by iMpark or leased to them by the city.

    Poor Masonic hall. They're getting squeezed out since the funeral home.
    Aren't you a member of the masons you said?

    The masonic hall is a beautiful historical structure. I think having better neighbours will compliment it, not harm it?
    Yes I am and have been since 2002 but my lodge is not this building. I go to Freemason's Hall, a couple times a year.

    Freemason's Hall needs some love and investment for sure. A coupe of nearby condo towers adjacent to that location would be awesome for the area. I'm not in any way against development there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Heard these two towers are planned to be 45 and 54 storeys tall.
    Not bad... 50 is the new 30 in E town.
    Love than line. Glad to see this Edmonton developer stepping up and raising the bar. Langham has a prominent location there - the towers will be “first impression views” of Edmonton on arrival from the Southside to downtown. I hope they design this well and chose curtain wall with that in mind.
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 07-05-2018 at 08:13 PM.

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    Maybe... but we need infill and spread that around as much as height for the sake of height. Density is more important given that we have eclipsed a few previous limits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Maybe... but we need infill and spread that around as much as height for the sake of height. Density is more important given that we have eclipsed a few previous limits.
    Amen. Do not get the weird obsession with super tall buildings. I’d take 5 buildings 10 stories tall over one 50 storey any day.

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    I'd like to see the core expand North (ICE District) and East. There's lots of room for towers East of the Law courts.
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    Heard that the parkade north of this is for sale. Just south of CWB tower. It houses DECL headquarters. There is also a small, empty lot on 104 st between Langham and the parkade that is included in the sale.
    Could that be a redevelopment opportunity?

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    Unlikely to no given the money they have put into it to retain it as a parkade.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Maybe... but we need infill and spread that around as much as height for the sake of height. Density is more important given that we have eclipsed a few previous limits.
    and
    Amen. Do not get the weird obsession with super tall buildings. I’d take 5 buildings 10 stories tall over one 50 storey any day.
    I like eclectic. The downtown has almost 0 develop-able lots left between 105 st and 97 st. north of 99 ave. Much of that area has been developed in the last ten years and its been mostly high rises. Edmonton has gotten to the size that it will densify the remaining areas in the CBD no matter what (the downtown park is going to take a whack of space off the market). Tall in the center and even more people once fully developed.

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    See the big area within the red. This property is just ripe for a Epcore-ish type tower. Anyone know what was here before?

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    Apologies for the bandwidth
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Unlikely to no given the money they have put into it to retain it as a parkade.
    What if it could be bought for less, on a PSF basis, than what Langham paid for their property? And you get parkade income in the meantime.

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    Given the location, that parkade is needed and makes good money.
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    ^ What the current imPark one? I think they make a lot of money there because of Freemason's hall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Very Toronto.
    Very Vancouver would have held more promise.

    https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...itecture.2320/

    Unless it's interesting like this, developed by Edmonton firm ONE: https://www.dezeen.com/2017/10/18/ch...oronto-canada/
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 04-06-2018 at 03:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Given the location, that parkade is needed and makes good money.
    Just like we can't tell surface parking lot owners that they should re-develop because we don't like gravel lots, I'm not sure we can tell parkade owners that they're not allowed to redevelop because we want the parking.
    While a parkade is well used and profitable, it's not the best possible use of the lot. A new owner/developer might see it that way.

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    Structured parking is important in a Downtown.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Structured parking is important in a Downtown.
    "Structured"? If the owner wants to tear it down or sell thats owners business. If the bureaucrats at the City thinks the City should be in the business of developing parking lots or parkades in the core - Councillors will be eaten alive.

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    Again, there is a need for parking, they just reinvestment millions into this parkade and there are plenty of other developable sites around the area.

    No need to remove this for quite some time.
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