Alberta Party - Centre Together

[GreenSPACE]

Thought I'd post a few recent articles, happenings about Alberta Party.

Alberta Party hopes leadership race draws new members, big-name contenders
https://globalnews.ca/news/3858925/a...me-contenders/

Lisa Holmes, Chima Nkemdirim named as possible Alberta Party candidates
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...irin-1.4400833

Greg Clark explains why he stepped down as Alberta Party leader
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...tion-1.4400246

[Top_Dawg]

Sound like mutant Liberals.

And Top_Dawg don't like Liberals.

[Ustauk]

^
More like Progressive Conservative 2.0, left leaning edition, Dawg, at least according to what I've heard. Clark has always talked about the party being fiscally responsible while socially progressive. You may see multiple former PCs joining, as well as NDPrs who find the NDP way to far left. It should make the next election very interesting

[Top_Dawg]

Yeah, Top_Dawg hears what you're saying Ustauk.

But after the Klein years the Alberta PC party was gradually hijacked by what really were Liberals who knew they could never be elected as Liberals.

So they wrapped themselves in PC blue.

And now many of the same chalupa heads are agitating within the Alberta Party because they have very little to no influence within the Kenney led UCP.

[IanO]

Their AGM is this weekend, expect to see some very interesting things from it or soon after. I cannot wait to see what comes from this.

[Top_Dawg]

Top_Dawg can tell you what's in store.

A sad spectacle of many of the same ol' retreads desperately trying to get their snout back in the trough.

[GreenSPACE]

^Does that mean you're in attendance? :P

[overoceans]

Yeah, Top_Dawg hears what you're saying Ustauk.

But after the Klein years the Alberta PC party was gradually hijacked by what really were Liberals who knew they could never be elected as Liberals.

That's revisionist history. In fact, the PC party after Klein never went back to being as left-wing as it had been under Lougheed and even Getty.

[ajs]

The Alberta Pot Lobby has to put it's big time cash somewhere. Can't give it to the prohibitionist/holier than thou UCP and the NDP is already sick with pot smokers. And what's this? There's a bevy of former high-placed PC'ers working in Big Ganga - http://albertapolitics.ca/2017/11/no...hief-gone-pot/. The biggest strike against Greg Clark was he couldn't raise any money. Methinks it won't be a problem for the new Alberta Party.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Counting up the Alberta Party’s leadership candidates, real and imagined, so far: a partial list, no doubt

http://albertapolitics.ca/2017/11/co...list-no-doubt/

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Will the Alberta Together takeover turn the Alberta Party into PC 2.0?

http://daveberta.ca/2017/11/will-the...y-into-pc-2-0/

[IanO]

Wait for it

[ajs]

^Still waiting. Leadership candidates? Bueller, Bueller? Anyone? *chirp chirp*

[Ustauk]

Greg Clark is not running for the leadership
From CBC News:

Calgary-Elbow MLA Greg Clark has decided not to run again for leadership of the Alberta Party.
In an interview with CBC News on Thursday, Clark said he decided his family had to come first. Clark and his wife have two daughters, 10 and 13.
He said one of his girls talked to him about the leadership during a drive from Calgary to Edmonton.
"She talked to her sister and she said, 'Dad, we don't mind you being MLA,' " Clark recounted. "But we'd really like you not be leader so you could spend more time with us.
"The minute I heard that, that really made my decision for me."
Clark acknowledges that there will be party members who will be disappointed with his decision. He said he still plans to run in Calgary-Elbow in the 2019 election.
Clark was chosen party leader in 2013 and became the party's first elected MLA in 2015. Calgary-Mackay-Nose Hill MLA Karen McPherson joined the Alberta Party caucus several weeks after leaving the NDP.
Clark stepped down last month to trigger a leadership race. Sources told CBC he was pushed out by the party's board of directors.

Ryan Jespersen stated on his show this morning that he definitely is not seeking the leadership of the Alberta Party. He stated he love his job and his listeners, referenced himself having no political experience.

[noodle]

Plus he's a big enough tool I'm surprised he doesn't have "BLACK & DECKER" across his forehead.

[Dave]

^Still waiting. Leadership candidates? Bueller, Bueller? Anyone? *chirp chirp*

So much for that long list of potential candidates when Clark announced his resignation. None were really very high profile, but even the moderate to low profile ones don't seem that interested in leading this party.

My bold prediction - no leader will be found, the leaderless party will struggle for a while, the 2nd MLA will leave to sit as an independent, and eventually the party will be taken over by UCP, who really only want the name and after that Clark will be gone.

[moahunter]

The only way a new party can work, is if its got someone charismatic to lead it, like Brad Wall in Sasketchewan. If Nenshi had been interested, maybe this could have replaced NDP for the progressive vote, but as it stands, its dead.

[noodle]

The only way a new party can work, is if its got someone charismatic to lead it, like Brad Wall in Sasketchewan.

Doesn't bode well for the UCP with their pudgy pile of disingenuity at the helm. Kenney is about as charismatic as a root canal.

[H.L.]

For a party that's really growing, ( lol) how funny nobody wants to lead it. A lot of hype around this party, I don't think the UCP need worry about them..

[ajs]

I'm confident someone will come forward... eventually. There's money raised and some organizational muscle around but the timing of the next provincial election is probably what's spooking potential leadership candidates. Eighteen months is no time to put together credible local constituencies.

But the Greg Clark resignation was bush league. Better a lame duck than no leader at all (I'm looking at you Tom Mulcair). Obviously, whomever gave Clark the push was confident some kind of leadership race would be in place by now. Timing is everything in life and politics.

[Ustauk]

I think we won't hear anyone announcing their leadership intentions until after Christmas. There's too many other things taking up the attention of both the public and the potential candidates themselves for anyone to want to announce now. Announcing in January would make more sense, as it should be a slow time of year for the news cycle, and the candidates can get more attention.

[H.L.]

Greg Clark is not running for the leadership
From CBC News:

Calgary-Elbow MLA Greg Clark has decided not to run again for leadership of the Alberta Party.
In an interview with CBC News on Thursday, Clark said he decided his family had to come first. Clark and his wife have two daughters, 10 and 13.
He said one of his girls talked to him about the leadership during a drive from Calgary to Edmonton.
"She talked to her sister and she said, 'Dad, we don't mind you being MLA,' " Clark recounted. "But we'd really like you not be leader so you could spend more time with us.
"The minute I heard that, that really made my decision for me."
Clark acknowledges that there will be party members who will be disappointed with his decision. He said he still plans to run in Calgary-Elbow in the 2019 election.
Clark was chosen party leader in 2013 and became the party's first elected MLA in 2015. Calgary-Mackay-Nose Hill MLA Karen McPherson joined the Alberta Party caucus several weeks after leaving the NDP.
Clark stepped down last month to trigger a leadership race. Sources told CBC he was pushed out by the party's board of directors.

Ryan Jespersen stated on his show this morning that he definitely is not seeking the leadership of the Alberta Party. He stated he love his job and his listeners, referenced himself having no political experience.

That big mouth, good lord he loves himself..ugh!

[H.L.]

I'm confident someone will come forward... eventually. There's money raised and some organizational muscle around but the timing of the next provincial election is probably what's spooking potential leadership candidates. Eighteen months is no time to put together credible local constituencies.

But the Greg Clark resignation was bush league. Better a lame duck than no leader at all (I'm looking at you Tom Mulcair). Obviously, whomever gave Clark the push was confident some kind of leadership race would be in place by now. Timing is everything in life and politics.

Mulcair was brilliant in QP, but his ideas were too far left for most people. He wasn't as soft and squidgy as JT, so he stood no chance...ya gotta to be able to cry on demand these days..

[H.L.]

I think we won't hear anyone announcing their leadership intentions until after Christmas. There's too many other things taking up the attention of both the public and the potential candidates themselves for anyone to want to announce now. Announcing in January would make more sense, as it should be a slow time of year for the news cycle, and the candidates can get more attention.

We'll see, everyone made it sound like this part is a contender, I don't think it is..

[KC]

I'm confident someone will come forward... eventually. There's money raised and some organizational muscle around but the timing of the next provincial election is probably what's spooking potential leadership candidates. Eighteen months is no time to put together credible local constituencies.

But the Greg Clark resignation was bush league. Better a lame duck than no leader at all (I'm looking at you Tom Mulcair). Obviously, whomever gave Clark the push was confident some kind of leadership race would be in place by now. Timing is everything in life and politics.

Mulcair was brilliant in QP, but his ideas were too far left for most people. He wasn't as soft and squidgy as JT, so he stood no chance...ya gotta to be able to cry on demand these days..

“cry on demand”???

If a guy said that about a women, it wouldn’t go over well.

[moahunter]

^why not? Some women can do that, some men (especially drama queens / teachers / namby pamby Liberals) can do it.

"All ye Poets of the Age!
All ye Witlings of the Stage!
Learn your Jingles to reform!
Crop your Numbers and Conform:
Let your little Verses flow
Gently, Sweetly, Row by Row:
Let the Verse the Subject fit;
Little Subject, Little Wit.
Namby-Pamby is your Guide;
Albion's Joy, Hibernia's Pride."

Henry Carey

[H.L.]

I'm confident someone will come forward... eventually. There's money raised and some organizational muscle around but the timing of the next provincial election is probably what's spooking potential leadership candidates. Eighteen months is no time to put together credible local constituencies.

But the Greg Clark resignation was bush league. Better a lame duck than no leader at all (I'm looking at you Tom Mulcair). Obviously, whomever gave Clark the push was confident some kind of leadership race would be in place by now. Timing is everything in life and politics.

Mulcair was brilliant in QP, but his ideas were too far left for most people. He wasn't as soft and squidgy as JT, so he stood no chance...ya gotta to be able to cry on demand these days..

“cry on demand”???

If a guy said that about a women, it wouldn’t go over well.

Really? It wouldn't upset me. Did you not see JT in the crying game? Talk,talk,- hanky, it was priceless. I wasn't cynical the first time, but after the fourth time I sure was..huge drama queen!

[moahunter]

^Trudeau is sort of a reverse Dil per the Crying game, isn't he? Explains all the Feminism stuff he goes on about all the time.

[H.L.]

^Trudeau is sort of a reverse Dil per the Crying game, isn't he? Explains all the Feminism stuff he goes on about all the time.

LOL, and expects China to adopt..

[Dave]

I think we won't hear anyone announcing their leadership intentions until after Christmas. There's too many other things taking up the attention of both the public and the potential candidates themselves for anyone to want to announce now. Announcing in January would make more sense, as it should be a slow time of year for the news cycle, and the candidates can get more attention.

The whole thing doesn't make sense. You don't push a leader out, without having someone else viable in the wings and they should be willing to step forward sooner, rather than later. The vote is scheduled to be at the end of February (date already pushed back, probably due to lack of interest). I have a feeling those that pushed Clark out either badly misjudged the level of interest or someone was quite interested, but backed out and now there is no one.

Unfortunately, I don't think Santa is going to bring the Alberta Party a viable leadership candidate for Christmas and I am not optimistic about before the end of February either. If ABSOLUTELY NO ONE is eager to step forward by now, it says something about the party. I suppose they can always push back that February date further or perhaps find some party member to agree to be leader at the last minute. However, I suppose it is all consistent with the Alberta Party over all these years, so much hype and hope, but very little achieved.

I actually hope to be proved wrong on this, but I have the sad feeling I might not be.

[moahunter]

^maybe it was Nenshi's backup plan if he had lost the Calgary election

[Dave]

^maybe it was Nenshi's backup plan if he had lost the Calgary election

I never thought of that. In any event, you are on to something here. They need someone with a stature like that to jolt their little party to life - small town mayors or radio personalities are not going to do it. They kind of have already gone that route before. I sort of feel like I am beating up on tickle me elmo here by attacking the Alberta Party, but at some point you either do something big or go away. I initially thought that was the whole point of calling a leadership race, but it has been a month now and the silence has been deafening.

[ajs]

Dave for the win. The Alberta Party is All Hat and No Cattle at this point.

Because they've been a policy tabula rasa for sooooo long many, many folk of strikingly different political perspectives have been projecting their hopes and dreams onto them. Get them all in a room and suddenly the much touted Big Tent, Pragmatic Middle, blah blah blah don't get along so well. Building a political party is an incredibly daunting task requiring tremendous hours of inglorious ground work. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

[ajs]

One more thing - Moa and HL keep your litter on a relevant thread, please and thank you.

[H.L.]

One more thing - Moa and HL keep your litter on a relevant thread, please and thank you.

When admin tells me, I will

[Dave]

Dave for the win. The Alberta Party is All Hat and No Cattle at this point.

Because they've been a policy tabula rasa for sooooo long many, many folk of strikingly different political perspectives have been projecting their hopes and dreams onto them. Get them all in a room and suddenly the much touted Big Tent, Pragmatic Middle, blah blah blah don't get along so well. Building a political party is an incredibly daunting task requiring tremendous hours of inglorious ground work. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Thanks. I think parties generally seem to work better when they are like minded people who have a similar ideology that they are somewhat passionate about. I suppose some people might be passionate about being moderate, but I think they are often either assimilated into other big tent parties with some ideological base or marginalized. It doesn't seem to be an asset in the current political climate if people are too unsure about what you stand for or it seems muddled or to fluctuate too much.

[East McCauley]

There's an old saying in politics that while money is not a guarantee of political success a lack of money is a guarantee of political failure.

In the first three quarters of 2017, the Alberta Party has raised a paltry $80,000 from its political supporters trailing even the lowly Liberals who raised $132,000. By contrast the Alberta NDP raised $1,366,000 in the same time period. The UCP raised $397,000 in the first quarter of its existence.

Anyone who doesn't think the 2019 election will be a fight between the Notley-led NDP and the Kenney-led UCP is seriously deluded.

[ajs]

Fair. But do those numbers include the pre Bill 31 PAC money for either Alberta Party or UCP? Alberta Together or Alberta Can't Wait or whatever other 80's teen movie name they gave their nefarious organizations?

And I don't have the numbers before me but I suspect comparing say the fundraising success of the NDP and the PC's in the three quarters prior to the electoral upset of 2015 would not indicate an NDP victory either.

Trust me, I am in no way expecting the Alberta Party to be any kind of political force in the next provincial election. However I am greatly enjoying the disappointment of so many formerly influential people trying desperately to turn chicken s&%t into chicken salad.

[ajs]

Ask and ye shall receive: http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...eadership-race

Looks like the "race" will have at least one entrant on Monday. President of the National Women's Liberal Commission? Yeeesh. That's some heavy baggage to be lugging around Alberta.

[East McCauley]

^^Was not predicting an NDP victory, only pointing out that they will be financially competitive with the UCP in the next election. Meanwhile, Alberta Party's supporters have never shown a willingness to put their money where their political mouth is. Unless this changes in an awful hurry, this pretty much dooms the Alberta Party's prospects in 2019.

The data on fundraising by political parties is available here:

http://efpublic.elections.ab.ca/efEv...D=37&YEAR=2017

FYI, data on third party political advertisers is available at the same link.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

https://twitter.com/MBellefontaine/s...25673050988544

CBC News has confirmed Stephen Mandel will run for the leadership of the Alberta Party. Announcement coming on Wednesday.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

^
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...478544?cmp=rss

[overoceans]

I don't get the upside-down grain elevator. Is it some sign of crisis, like flying an upside-down flag?

[ajs]

Mandel is definitely taking one for the team here - but let's face it he probably owes them one after sticking the shiv in Greg Clark. At least some people might recognize his name. A couple of red tory re-treads and two no-hopers does not make for an inspiring leadership race.

Provincial Super Lab decision - hands-up who thinks former downtown Edmonton cheerleader-in-chief and Redford health minister whispered that line about priorities and provincial government's changing into the DBA's ear? Gotta be careful about who you're spinning for.

[envaneo]

Depends which way you look at it. Upside down maybe?

I like the idea of Mandel running for the leadership of the Alberta party. He's a big name a lot of people can get behind.

[RichardS]

Mandel is definitely taking one for the team here - but let's face it he probably owes them one after sticking the shiv in Greg Clark. At least some people might recognize his name. A couple of red tory re-treads and two no-hopers does not make for an inspiring leadership race.

Provincial Super Lab decision - hands-up who thinks former downtown Edmonton cheerleader-in-chief and Redford health minister whispered that line about priorities and provincial government's changing into the DBA's ear? Gotta be careful about who you're spinning for.

...going out on a limb here...but I don't think Stephen is this line whisperer you are mentioning...

Maybe I am wrong, but it doesn't match some of the conversations I had with him when he was Health Minister...just my opinion, but he will look at this and other items from a Provincial aspect. That is my take on the upside down grain elevator...for the agriculture sector is in a big enough crisis to warrant the upside down elevator...

[ajs]

Just trying to provoke a bit based on the obvious enthusiasm for the Alberta Party by some well-connected downtown types. Despite the fact that downtown Edmonton has been well represented provincially for many, many years by Blakeman and now Sheppard.

[noodle]

I like the idea of Mandel running for the leadership of the Alberta party. He's a big name a lot of people can get behind.

Conversely, I'd never cast my vote for a Mandel-led-Alberta-Party candidate.

[RichardS]

Fair enough...

...but I wouldn't say the alleged enthusiasm for a more centrist party is downtown centric. There's a lot of frustration and anger rurally at both parties. The governing party has botched the diversification file horribly, agriculture even moreso, and offers little to no hope for businesses outside of O&G. This doesn't even begin to cover the mess that they've exacerbated with the overall electric file...the recent road tour was a huge flop.

...and before one goes off on the whole rural redneck UCP tangent...there's actually as much if not more anger there. The leadership race is seen as a sham, Kenney is not playing well in some circles, and the main "support" seen for the UCP is only because the governing party hasn't performed. The UCP hasn't offered up much more than "bad carbon tax...bad". There's no discussion on economic diversification outside "drill baby, drill". Nothing on small town sustainability, nothing on support for new markets for new product, etc. Cattle policies appear to be shoot, shovel, and shut up. There's just too much Calgary oilman rhetoric for a significant number of people to stomach...and Kenney can only ride the NDP = bad shtick for so long before he gets called on for his solutions.

...so there's a real opportunity for the right Alberta Party slate to maybe do what Decore couldn't...

In short...the political landscape outside core NDP and Calgary Conservative constituencies is up for grabs. I know my vote is up foe grabs.

[ajs]

The NDP is a "centrist" party. The former PC's under various guises were a "centrist" party. Centrism is fairy dust, a unicorn.

After 40 years of ONE party rule you end up with a province utterly beholden to ONE industry. Quelle suprise!

If you think a bunch of former movers and shakers with their noses out of joint (or out of the trough) are going to change anything, well... good luck.

[moahunter]

^post Klein, the PC's swung hard left, spending like drunken sailors - the NDP has just accelerated that. I'm not really a big Kenny fan (I don't like his positions on social issues), but if he can take the UCP back to fiscal responsibility, i.e. don't spend more than you earn, and start to pay down the debt - simple basic stuff, then he will win me over and the UCP will be in the center / in power for a very long time.

I agree though that there is no real room for an Alberta party, you are either fiscally responsible (UCP), or you believe the borrowings / out of control spending doesn't really matter (NDP). The Alberta party is unlikely to do much damage to the UCP, and will never win many electorates (they don't stand for anything other than something "in the middle", which is never credible in politics), but they could hurt the NDP by splitting votes in some electorates.

[noodle]

You know someone's truly terrible when moahunter (the authoritarian, anti-human-rights fascist) feels they're at least marginally (if not materially) beneath him on social issues.

Makes me wonder how truly regressive & illiberal a conservative candidate would have to be for moahunter to actually not vote for them...

[RichardS]

nood...

do we really need to add the ad hominem?

ajs...

Centrist isn't a unicorn...it is how most Canadians vote. Stray too far...and you're gone. Rachel is a smart person...she knows this...which explains the rift between the provincial NDP that is governing, and the federal NDP that won't be.

...and I did say my vote is up for grabs. Unlike many, I am waiting to see what pans out. If it turns out to be just another lather, rinse, repeat as much of the NDP has been now that they are in power...then maybe it is time to vote Rhino...

...and the one industry has a lot to do with geology than politics. My concern is that this is not 1970, and there is this alleged "new, green economy" that many cannot quantify outside fanciful glossies. Again, a reason why my mind, and vote, is open.

You can feel free to continue to chide, rant, and assume based on party lines if you'd like. I'll just keep an open mind...but admittedly...I am a bit jaded that anything will change.

[noodle]

nood...

do we really need to add the ad hominem?

Absolutely. Are you saying I'm too mean to a bigot who's repeatedly said that corporate profits are more important than Albertan lives? That I'm hurting the poor fascist, who thinks the government should be above the law, & his feelings by encapsulating those beliefs in a single, apt, applicable word?

Moahunter's our own Canadian version of a Roy Moore supporter, & I'd like to know if he's one that'd have no problem voting for a truly terrible, reprehensible person provided they had the right party affiliation. If that's not the case, I'd like to know where his line is (if he even has one.)

[moahunter]

^because it starts getting ridiculous. Clearly we have different political philosophies - you are more left wing, I am more right wing. So I can start comparing you to David Suzuki, Darrel Hanna or Stalin to try and prove a point, but what does it really prove? How about we try to both just debate each others points, not who we are? It won't ever be perfect, but invoking godwin, Mussolini or whatever, all the time just drives away people from posting unless they agree with you. What is the point in the forum then if nobody is allowed a different viewpoint without being bad mouthed? Its also in line with the rules of the forum:

2.Criticizing an idea is encouraged, but criticizing the person who posted it is not. Excessive attacks on a person's character will not be tolerated and may be grounds for suspension of posting privileges. The moderation team will determine what is inappropriate.

http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...and-Guidelines

[noodle]

^because it starts getting ridiculous. Clearly we have different political philosophies - you are more left wing, I am more right wing.

I'm not actually "left", that's your own extreme regressive, illiberal right-wing bias colouring everything that's not you as "left", regardless of where it actually sits on the spectrum. Only its relative position to your own beliefs matters.

So I can start comparing you to David Suzuki, Darrel Hanna or Stalin to try and prove a point, but what does it really prove?

It proves you're a terrible debater (on top of being generally terrible). You love to lump people into groups, take things out of context & failing being able to take things out of context entirely willing to manufacture statements & attribute them to your opponent, replete with your pre-manufactured responses to the manufactured replies that only exist inside your own twisted mind.

I'm using your own words. I'm not calling you a fascist because I want to evoke Hitler, I'm calling you a fascist because you espouse & promote fascist ideals. I don't call you an authoritarian to evoke Mussolini, I call you an authoritarian because that's an apt encapsulation of your beliefs regarding the primacy of government vs the rule of law.

How about we try to both just debate each others points, not who we are? It won't ever be perfect, but invoking godwin, Mussolini or whatever, all the time just drives away people from posting unless they agree with you. Its also in line with the rules of the forum:

2.Criticizing an idea is encouraged, but criticizing the person who posted it is not. Excessive attacks on a person's character will not be tolerated and may be grounds for suspension of posting privileges. The moderation team will determine what is inappropriate.

http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...and-Guidelines

If you consider me calling you a fascist, regressive, illiberal authoritarian a personal attack, perhaps you need to stop portraying yourself in ways that lead people to believe you're a fascist, regressive, illiberal authoritarian or otherwise hold fascist, regressive, illiberal, authoritarian views. Because that's what you do & somehow you feel you're owed a safe space where we're not allowed to use accurate & apt descriptors to speak about your views because they're loaded with negative connotations (thanks to them being overwhelmingly negative, harmful & hurtful)?

Is there a nice way to paint someone who puts corporate welfare over human rights that doesn't hurt your feelings, snowflake?

[overoceans]

(they don't stand for anything other than something "in the middle", which is never credible in politics)

The Liberal Party Of Canada has built decades of political hegemony on the idea that they are the moderate centre of Canadian politics.

[moahunter]

(they don't stand for anything other than something "in the middle", which is never credible in politics)

The Liberal Party Of Canada has built decades of political hegemony on the idea that they are the moderate centre of Canadian politics.

That's not what they are overoceans - that's just positioning, both the conservatives and liberals call themselves moderate center.

In reality, Liberals are center left, Conservatives are center right. There is no true center though - you either believe in more government, or less government, both parties will swing a little more one way or the other on different issues. The conservatives for example, believe in more military spending - which in a way is more left than the Liberals fiscally (not socially).

NDP are traditionally hard left, but Liberals under Trudeau moved into their territory to win the election - and it worked. Notley has tried to take NDP in Alberta a little more right, but its not far enough compared to where most Albertans are on fiscal matters (I think on social matters NDP isn't far away from Calgary and Edmonton city dwellers). I think if she had only done a fraction of the ideas that were implemented, they would be looking at possible re-election, but throwing in a carbon tax, and individual top tax rate increase, and totally ignoring the fiscal spending situation (until now) wasn't the way to go.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Stephen Mandel confirms he’s running to be Alberta Party leader

https://globalnews.ca/news/3954838/s...ader-politics/

[Top_Dawg]

Thanks SDM.

At first glance Top_Dawg thought the chalupa head holding the ' Work Hard ' sign is giving Mandel the finger.

[Dave]

Depends which way you look at it. Upside down maybe?

I like the idea of Mandel running for the leadership of the Alberta party. He's a big name a lot of people can get behind.

Kenney is probably initially happy. He expects Mandel and the NDP can fight it out in Edmonton, while he gets the rural Alberta vote and not too much competition in Calgary.

Of course Mandel has been known to make scathing comments that really puncture the inflated egos of the pompous, so Kenney should really watch out for that. I bet before 2018 is over he will say "Kenney is full of cr*p", heck maybe even before this week or month is over. Mandel is a person with a successful business career that went on to become a successful politician. Kenney is only a successful career politician with no real world business experience.

[kcantor]

(they don't stand for anything other than something "in the middle", which is never credible in politics)

The Liberal Party Of Canada has built decades of political hegemony on the idea that they are the moderate centre of Canadian politics.

That's not what they are overoceans - that's just positioning, both the conservatives and liberals call themselves moderate center.

In reality, Liberals are center left, Conservatives are center right. There is no true center though - you either believe in more government, or less government, both parties will swing a little more one way or the other on different issues. The conservatives for example, believe in more military spending - which in a way is more left than the Liberals fiscally (not socially).

NDP are traditionally hard left, but Liberals under Trudeau moved into their territory to win the election - and it worked. Notley has tried to take NDP in Alberta a little more right, but its not far enough compared to where most Albertans are on fiscal matters (I think on social matters NDP isn't far away from Calgary and Edmonton city dwellers). I think if she had only done a fraction of the ideas that were implemented, they would be looking at possible re-election, but throwing in a carbon tax, and individual top tax rate increase, and totally ignoring the fiscal spending situation (until now) wasn't the way to go.

moa, sometimes you just bring a smile to my face.

i've never run across anyone before who had their own definition for left and right and still managed to make them conflict with each other.

[KC]

(they don't stand for anything other than something "in the middle", which is never credible in politics)

The Liberal Party Of Canada has built decades of political hegemony on the idea that they are the moderate centre of Canadian politics.

That's not what they are overoceans - that's just positioning, both the conservatives and liberals call themselves moderate center.

In reality, Liberals are center left, Conservatives are center right. There is no true center though - you either believe in more government, or less government, both parties will swing a little more one way or the other on different issues. The conservatives for example, believe in more military spending - which in a way is more left than the Liberals fiscally (not socially).

NDP are traditionally hard left, but Liberals under Trudeau moved into their territory to win the election - and it worked. Notley has tried to take NDP in Alberta a little more right, but its not far enough compared to where most Albertans are on fiscal matters (I think on social matters NDP isn't far away from Calgary and Edmonton city dwellers). I think if she had only done a fraction of the ideas that were implemented, they would be looking at possible re-election, but throwing in a carbon tax, and individual top tax rate increase, and totally ignoring the fiscal spending situation (until now) wasn't the way to go.

I’m not even sure of what more government or less government means when people talk of that. It’s always this airy fairy stuff that comes out of these ideological groups. Is less government: smaller military, less policing, less social security, less regulation, fewer laws, less taxpayer paid infrastructure, fewer workers or cheaper workers, less accreditation of doctors, lawyers, accountants, less public ownership of parks, public utilities etc...



In Alberta should we privatize all the mineral rights. Sell them all off. Let companies own rivers and charge water royalties, etc

[Dave]

(they don't stand for anything other than something "in the middle", which is never credible in politics)

The Liberal Party Of Canada has built decades of political hegemony on the idea that they are the moderate centre of Canadian politics.

That's not what they are overoceans - that's just positioning, both the conservatives and liberals call themselves moderate center.

In reality, Liberals are center left, Conservatives are center right. There is no true center though - you either believe in more government, or less government, both parties will swing a little more one way or the other on different issues. The conservatives for example, believe in more military spending - which in a way is more left than the Liberals fiscally (not socially).

NDP are traditionally hard left, but Liberals under Trudeau moved into their territory to win the election - and it worked. Notley has tried to take NDP in Alberta a little more right, but its not far enough compared to where most Albertans are on fiscal matters (I think on social matters NDP isn't far away from Calgary and Edmonton city dwellers). I think if she had only done a fraction of the ideas that were implemented, they would be looking at possible re-election, but throwing in a carbon tax, and individual top tax rate increase, and totally ignoring the fiscal spending situation (until now) wasn't the way to go.

moa, sometimes you just bring a smile to my face.

i've never run across anyone before who had their own definition for left and right and still managed to make them conflict with each other.

I think there are simplistic caricatures of parties that partisan opponents like to put forth and sometimes the parties themselves try put out there, but they are not really as rigid and fixed as that. Parties change with different leaders, different members and in different times. Remember the PC's in Alberta were the party that under Lougheed bought an airline and later under Klein privatized liquor stores. At various times, based mostly on the economic cycle the Alberta PC's had huge surpluses and huge deficits. The NDP in Saskatchewan balanced the budget, as did the Liberals in other provinces. Mulrooney's PC's and Harpers Conservatives both ran big deficits federally. The Liberals under Paul Martin were quite different than under Pierre Trudeau. I believe the Liberals created Petro Canada and then later finished privatizing it. Its not just Canada, likewise Reagan was quite different from Nixon and Thatcher from her predecessor in the UK.

I suppose there is some consistency too, in Canada the Liberals have generally been more supportive of medicare and the charter of rights than the Conservatives, but on many issues parties positions change based on what they feel appeals to their members or the public at the time. I think stereotypes are more often used as a justification of who a person supports or doesn't support, rather than an accurate reflection of reality. I know some people like simplicity, but parties are complex and not some fixed or unchangeable thing.

[AAAAE]

Stephen Mandel confirms he’s running to be Alberta Party leader

https://globalnews.ca/news/3954838/s...ader-politics/

Fantastic - he will be the leader.

Provincial politics just got much more interesting. Don't underestimate Mandel. Big thinker, strategic and folksy. It will work.

As a Mandel fan I would like to see him as the next premier.

[envaneo]

I'd even buy a membership card if Mandel won the leadership race.

[overoceans]

formatting snafu

[overoceans]

Stephen Mandel confirms he’s running to be Alberta Party leader

https://globalnews.ca/news/3954838/s...ader-politics/

Fantastic - he will be the leader.

Provincial politics just got much more interesting. Don't underestimate Mandel. Big thinker, strategic and folksy. It will work.

As a Mandel fan I would like to see him as the next premier.

I'm really questioning how sellable Mandel is in rural Alberta, or even Calgary. Not that I think he's gonna totally alienate everyone there, just that right now the momentum is with Kenney, and he's the kind of guy they're comfortable with in Cowtown and the rurals, so he ends up being just the default choice if people wanna get rid of the NDP.

[Dave]

Stephen Mandel confirms he’s running to be Alberta Party leader

https://globalnews.ca/news/3954838/s...ader-politics/

Fantastic - he will be the leader.

Provincial politics just got much more interesting. Don't underestimate Mandel. Big thinker, strategic and folksy. It will work.

As a Mandel fan I would like to see him as the next premier.

I think his influence might be quite geographically limited. He'll have to first get Calgarians to stop saying Stephen who? and rural Albertans saying huh?

[East McCauley]

^And Mandel is best known in Calgary during his brief stint as Health Minister for putting the kibosh on the new Calgary Cancer Hospital at the Foothills site, a deeply unpopular decision that cost the Prentice Tories big-time in the 2015 election.

[moahunter]

^And Mandel is best known in Calgary during his brief stint as Health Minister for putting the kibosh on the new Calgary Cancer Hospital at the Foothills site, a deeply unpopular decision that cost the Prentice Tories big-time in the 2015 election.

^He also shut down the Misericordia replacement in Edmonton - saying at the time, other cheaper options should be looked at / more study (he has always been a ditherer not a do'er). He burned bridges in Edmonton and Calgary during that brief stint as a cabinet minister.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Irres...226/story.html

EDMONTON - Health Minister Stephen Mandel said Friday it would be “irresponsible” to build a new Misericordia Hospital without considering alternative health-care delivery options.

Mandel also said the province must undertake an “actuarial study” to determine where any new health facilities ought to be built.

“There are all kinds of questions to be asked, we’re getting those answers, and once we get those answers we’ll make decision,” Mandel said. “But I think it’s a bit irresponsible to say let’s just build because something has to be built.”

Mandel made the comments while fighting a byelection battle in Edmonton-Whitemud against opponents who support building a new hospital to replace the 45-year-old Misericordia, which is plagued by mould, floods, electrical system problems, inoperative elevators and, most recently, a fly infestation.

A new Edmonton hospital would probably have been built by now if he hadn't stuck his nose in and put the brakes on it. Is that what the Alberta Party stands for - no more hospitals?

[overoceans]

I'm also wondering if the Muni airport was really as beloved in northern Alberta as Envision made it out to be. If it was, there might be some lingering resentment against Mandel over that. Though if that was all exaggerated, or people have forgotten about it, maybe not an issue.

[envaneo]

^And Mandel is best known in Calgary during his brief stint as Health Minister for putting the kibosh on the new Calgary Cancer Hospital at the Foothills site, a deeply unpopular decision that cost the Prentice Tories big-time in the 2015 election.

^He also shut down the Misericordia replacement in Edmonton - saying at the time, other cheaper options should be looked at / more study (he has always been a ditherer not a do'er). He burned bridges in Edmonton and Calgary during that brief stint as a cabinet minister.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Irres...226/story.html

EDMONTON - Health Minister Stephen Mandel said Friday it would be “irresponsible” to build a new Misericordia Hospital without considering alternative health-care delivery options.

Mandel also said the province must undertake an “actuarial study” to determine where any new health facilities ought to be built.

“There are all kinds of questions to be asked, we’re getting those answers, and once we get those answers we’ll make decision,” Mandel said. “But I think it’s a bit irresponsible to say let’s just build because something has to be built.”

Mandel made the comments while fighting a byelection battle in Edmonton-Whitemud against opponents who support building a new hospital to replace the 45-year-old Misericordia, which is plagued by mould, floods, electrical system problems, inoperative elevators and, most recently, a fly infestation.

A new Edmonton hospital would probably have been built by now if he hadn't stuck his nose in and put the brakes on it. Is that what the Alberta Party stands for - no more hospitals?

I don't see the NDP going out of its way to help Airdrie a community of 80,000 people get a hospital. Most of their ambulance trucks are being hijacked by Calgary.

[MrOilers]

If Mandel becomes leader of the The Alberta Party, I think he will be the only member of that party to win a seat.

[RichardS]

I wouldn't say that yet. We don't know what slate of candidates he may have already attracted. With the right slate, Rachel would have to find qualified replacements for the accidental MLA's/seat warmers she has in the party.

The only thing that is relatively certain right now is this environment just got more interesting. If the NDP wasn't worried about Mandel, they wouldn't have gone after him so hard...only to have to eat crow and apologize. They would have left him alone.

A credible leader in Edmonton with backing is definitely a scary thing for the NDP. Same for the UCP. The best the NDP can hope for is that the AP takes votes from the UCP...and the UCP hopes moderates split the NDP vote. So this really got more entertaining. Frazier in Calgary could do the same thing...

[Highlander II]

I wouldn't assume that the tweet means they have any particular fear of Mandel, only that they actually know who he is.

I expect that they are justifiably afraid of a revitalized Alberta Party; even if Mandel doesn't win his entry is a sign that the party isn't as dead as people were assuming just a couple weeks ago.

[Gemini]

Mandel entering the race has just made the next provincial election cycle way more interesting. For those that are tired of the NDP shenanigans and the others that are not big fans of Kenney and U C Pee this could put a cat among the pigeons.

[RichardS]

I wouldn't assume that the tweet means they have any particular fear of Mandel, only that they actually know who he is.

I expect that they are justifiably afraid of a revitalized Alberta Party; even if Mandel doesn't win his entry is a sign that the party isn't as dead as people were assuming just a couple weeks ago.

Seriously??? Mason, Eggen, and Notley don't know of Mandel...his abilities...his consensus building??? They don't have a long term relationship - especially Mason and Eggen?????


You may want to probe the relationships a little further. There's more knowledge and fear of someone like a Mandel than you perceive...not that he will sweep anything as of right now...but that he will have enough to flip the balance of trade in Edmonton...their stronghold.

To ignore the polling, the history in the city, his consensus network, business ties, civic ties, provincial ties....it would be foolhardy for the NDP or the UCP to not take this candidacy seriously. With some of the names I've heard that are planning to run if Stephen wins..names that aren't the "PC cronies"... Like I said...a hell of a lot more interesting times await us.

[Highlander II]

I didn't mean that they only know his name, he's obviously a high profile candidate.

Only that the public jolt that the he is giving the race even if he doesn't win is as much a game changer. His participation in the race means a high profile race, lots of eyeballs and media attention on the Alberta Party and it's race. Him being there will increase the profile of whoever eventually wins, even if it's not him.

If he can bring out a significantly stronger slate of candidates than his opponents then that's something else, but my feeling is that he was around long enough that in Edmonton at least he might no longer have the shine among voters.

But What do I know?

[RichardS]

(...)

But What do I know?

you know enough to comment of course...

We can agree that the leadership name recognition is one thing. After all, the NDP ran on Rachel's name in every constituency...and that helped.

I think we can also agree that the slate of talent (or lack thereof) that the parties bring will be more crucial than not. The UCP is catching flack in large waves right now, so their slate of candidates could be a buffer. The Alberta Party will definitely need name recognition in the urban centres to do more than be a potential spoiler. The NDP will need to have the guts to clean house and run stronger candidates in the urban centres as well, but that means telling some of the accidental MLA's to not seek re-election.

I am curious to see how the uptick in the Alberta Party plays in the other urban centres (Grande Prairie, Red Deer, etc.). That would be a good hint as to future success IMO. Edmonton and Calgary are actually quite moderate, with Calgary really having more of a fiscal conservative focus. Socially, both major cities are definitely much more moderate than the stereotype would let one believe.

[H.L.]

Mandel entering the race has just made the next provincial election cycle way more interesting. For those that are tired of the NDP shenanigans and the others that are not big fans of Kenney and U C Pee this could put a cat among the pigeons.

I wouldnt vote Mandel, I heard his interview, very wishy washy.

[Spill]

I wouldnt vote Mandel, I heard his interview, very wishy washy.

Versus what, your chronic, hyperventilated, hypocritical partisan mini-diatribes?
Suggestion: Either add something net-positive to c2e or [leave]. Seriously ... no questions asked ... no conscience questioned ...

[envaneo]

I'm just happy Stephen Mandel saw an opportunity to at least get on board for a young party. Not that my voice adds much substance to this thread, but I'm even warming up to Rachel Notley. She seems to be more Kline like then even he was and as a bonus her riding is in Edmonton and born & raised Edmonton. The UCP is to right wing for me, the Alberta Party if wins a nomination with Stephen Mandel at the helm, its going to be a heck of race in 2019.

[Gemini]

There are probably a lot of people going to feel like they are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the next provincial election. I like Notley seems like a nice person although I'm not in tune with her politics. Kenney, well so far no platform. He comes across as a bit of a tyrant. Mandel, I'm kinda 50/50 on him although I think what he did for downtown Edmonton in the way of Rogers Place was the highlight of his career and a great move for who made it happen. There are a lot of people who are pretty jaded about politics on all levels at the moment. Political overload is no good.

[envaneo]

There are probably a lot of people going to feel like they are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the next provincial election. I like Notley seems like a nice person although I'm not in tune with her politics. Kenney, well so far no platform. He comes across as a bit of a tyrant. Mandel, I'm kinda 50/50 on him although I think what he did for downtown Edmonton in the way of Rogers Place was the highlight of his career and a great move for who made it happen. There are a lot of people who are pretty jaded about politics on all levels at the moment. Political overload is no good.

I'm 50/50 on Notley, but I think what could hurt Notley's 2019 campaign will be her raising the min wage in October to $15/hour. I share your concerns about Kenny as well. I don't like him. Its becoming clear that the Alberta NDP is nothing like the Saskatchewan NDP.

[H.L.]

There are probably a lot of people going to feel like they are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the next provincial election. I like Notley seems like a nice person although I'm not in tune with her politics. Kenney, well so far no platform. He comes across as a bit of a tyrant. Mandel, I'm kinda 50/50 on him although I think what he did for downtown Edmonton in the way of Rogers Place was the highlight of his career and a great move for who made it happen. There are a lot of people who are pretty jaded about politics on all levels at the moment. Political overload is no good.

I'm 50/50 on Notley, but I think what could hurt Notley's 2019 campaign will be her raising the min wage in October to $15/hour. I share your concerns about Kenny as well. I don't like him. Its becoming clear that the Alberta NDP is nothing like the Saskatchewan NDP.

Notley has to go, and I believe she will. Roll on 2019!

[noodle]

I don't really think someone who's incapable of referring to our Prime Minister without using some sort of 3rd-grade, monkeybars-at-recess-level name-calling insult gleaned from The Rebel is really in a position to point fingers at people for acting childish.

[MrOilers]

Thank you for your insightful lesson on not calling other people names.


Anyway, I think Notley is a likable enough person, but her party (which only came into power by a "protest" vote) has not grown in popularity. if Mandel is Alberta party leader, I see him stealing a crucial seat (maybe 2) from the NDP in Edmonton.

[noodle]

Thank you for your insightful lesson on not calling other people names.

You think me recognizing your self-stated beliefs as being fascist, racist, ignorant, illiberal & regressive is a "personal attack" & name calling; you mock people wanting to have a safe space while simultaneously begging in PMs to have me ease up & let you off the hook for spewing intolerance on the forums, so you're just as out to lunch as HL is.

[H.L.]

Thank you for your insightful lesson on not calling other people names.


Anyway, I think Notley is a likable enough person, but her party (which only came into power by a "protest" vote) has not grown in popularity. if Mandel is Alberta party leader, I see him stealing a crucial seat (maybe 2) from the NDP in Edmonton.

That could happen, it wouldn't be a bad thing..

[envaneo]

In my 40 years of residing here in Edmonton i can't recall a legislature with 4 parties. Assuming of course the UPC or the Alberta party, takes seats away from anyone. Don't forget the Alberta liberals. Due to Notley's unpopularity right now, Raj and his people could take more seats away from Notley then either the UPC or Alberta combined. I still think Notley will have a minority Government in 2019 and having the UPC/Alberta party in the mix increases that likelihood from happening.

[Gemini]

^Well next year is the election and in politics a lot can happen. I don't think UCP have a platform yet and when they do I should imagine the big guns will be out. You are right, nobody mentions the Liberal Party of Alberta because they are not on most peoples radar, and Raj is not their leader. He's gone back to his roots and is an emergency doctor at the Royal Alex (and a fine doc at that). We still got time for lots of fireworks till may of next year. It's to early to be calling it.

[envaneo]

^ Yes. We have this thing called having a life so, i didn't know that Sherman had left the party lol. I like Rachel Notley, she's seems affable enough. As far as I know the UPC doesn't have a platform yet. I doubt it will happen but if Daniel Smith ever put her name in the Alberta party leadership race it'd be very interesting. I think she'd win the nomination over Mandel because of her association with Jim Prentice.

[H.L.]

^Well next year is the election and in politics a lot can happen. I don't think UCP have a platform yet and when they do I should imagine the big guns will be out. You are right, nobody mentions the Liberal Party of Alberta because they are not on most peoples radar, and Raj is not their leader. He's gone back to his roots and is an emergency doctor at the Royal Alex (and a fine doc at that). We still got time for lots of fireworks till may of next year. It's to early to be calling it.

They are working on it, I'm so interested to see what Jason will do, hopefully the opposite of Notley and gang!

[Glenco]

^ Yes. We have this thing called having a life so, i didn't know that Sherman had left the party lol. I like Rachel Notley, she's seems affable enough. As far as I know the UPC doesn't have a platform yet. I doubt it will happen but if Daniel Smith ever put her name in the Alberta party leadership race it'd be very interesting. I think she'd win the nomination over Mandel because of her association with Jim Prentice.

Are you crazy? It was the collusion between Prentice and Smith that destroyed the PCs and her political career. Not only that but she is way too far to right to even be considered. Sometimes I wonder if you even think before you post.

[envaneo]

^ Yes. We have this thing called having a life so, i didn't know that Sherman had left the party lol. I like Rachel Notley, she's seems affable enough. As far as I know the UPC doesn't have a platform yet. I doubt it will happen but if Daniel Smith ever put her name in the Alberta party leadership race it'd be very interesting. I think she'd win the nomination over Mandel because of her association with Jim Prentice.

Are you crazy? It was the collusion between Prentice and Smith that destroyed the PCs and her political career. Not only that but she is way too far to right to even be considered. Sometimes I wonder if you even think before you post.

Oh brother Daniel crossed the floor because of the fracture in the Wild Rose party and lent her support to Jim because of the onslaught of the NDP popularity. Albertans have had enough (at the time) of decades of pc rule and that is what killed the pc party. Incidentally jim Prentice was not only in favour of austerity measures here in Alberta but even entertained the idea of a carbon levy before the NDP was elected. Its in his book. I can lend you my copy if your like.

Oh, and please before you post vitriol diarrhea in my direction please get your facts straight.

[Glenco]

THESE ARE THE FACTS. Three bye elections to get Mandel ,Prentice and one other into the legislature. Crush Wildrose at in every case. Major rift in Wildrose should they be more centrist? Smith and 8 others can see the writing on the wall bolt for the PC party and Prentice thinks he is putting a nail into the WR coffin when in fact he is revitalizing the movement with the betrayal of their “leader”. Progressives within the PC party and electorate are horrified look for an alternative and all of those involved with the floor crossing have their political careers destroyed. So to think that a right wing quitter would be welcome in the centrist Alberta party shows a lack of understanding of politics on your part.
As for Prentice’s book you may as well burn it in is irrelevant to the conversation about Smith or politics today.
Again I wonder if you think before you post.

[Top_Dawg]

Well if you are arrogantly claiming these to be facts then Top_Dawg suggests you get them correct.



Otherwise you look like ol' Jimbo.

Driving a forty year political dynasty over the cliff.

[GreenSPACE]

The leadership race is really heating up and tomorrow is the debut of the candidates on the debate stage in Edmonton.

We hope you'll be able to join us in person, but there are only a few tickets left. Tickets will sell out and will not be available at the door.

WHERE: Lister Conference Centre; The Maple Leaf Room; 11613-87 Avenue NW, Edmonton, AB, T6G2H6
WHEN: Wednesday, Jan. 24, 2018
TIME: 7-9 PM
TICKETS: $10

This event is being hosted by the Edmonton-Riverview, Edmonton South West and Edmonton-Rutherford Alberta Party Constituency Associations.

This event will sell out, so if you're not in Edmonton or didn't get your tickets, don't worry, you can follow the action on our Facebook page live starting at 7:00 pm. (Video will be posted after the event to our YouTube Channel and leadership website).

[Top_Dawg]

The leadership race is really heating up ....

Yeah, just bumpin'.

Mad headlines all over the news.

Phat.