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Thread: Alberta Party - Centre Together

  1. #101

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    It's a press release. They're all like that.
    www.decl.org

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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ader-1.4553053

    " The party has experienced a surge of interest in the past year. "




    Yeah.

    This thing is really taking off.


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    I completely understand the sarcasm...

    ....but with the two current parties failing and flailing so badly, maybe this one can play a role in getting folks to wake up...

    I know my UCP MLA made a bunch of commitments...but then vanished when I asked for a follow up...and the current NDP administration couldn't care less about issues that aren't wedge ones...yet I see a definite muting of rhetoric and even some small actions that make me wonder if the vote splitting fears are setting in...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    I completely understand the sarcasm...

    ....but with the two current parties failing and flailing so badly, maybe this one can play a role in getting folks to wake up...

    I know my UCP MLA made a bunch of commitments...but then vanished when I asked for a follow up...and the current NDP administration couldn't care less about issues that aren't wedge ones...yet I see a definite muting of rhetoric and even some small actions that make me wonder if the vote splitting fears are setting in...
    for years i was one of those who felt that change would more likely come from within than from outside of alberta’s mainstream political political party. i felt that way because i was one of those progressive conservatives who has never really recovered from ndp policies and practices elsewhere. at the same time, if i have to choose between the fiscal conservatism I believe in and the small “l” liberal social responsibilities we all have in building a society worth living in, then social responsibilities are the trump card. there is no place in alberta politics for me and i believe there are many albertans like me. the alberta party seems to offer a centrist home and their support won’t come from vote splitting - which implies choosing the lesser of two evils - as votes cast with comfort and alliance and hopefulness.
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    I think you misunderstand...

    Their support is their support. The "vote splitting" represents a detailed and professed fear spoken by the NDP administration and the UCP opposition. In other words...people who would begrudgingly vote for either hard/herder line party out of allegiance/fear of the other would now find a home in the Alberta Party...and not plug their nose in doing so.

    The Alberta Party has everything to gain...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    i think we’re saying much the same thing RichardS...
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    Isn't the Alberta party leadership vote happening today?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Isn't the Alberta party leadership vote happening today?
    Been happening since Sunday online.

    According to a CBC article on the leadership vote there were 6,543 members of the Alberta Party signed up by the deadline to vote.

    Contrast that to 58,232 votes in the UCP party leadership.

    But then you can contrast that to 3,589 votes in the NDP leadership race in 2014.

  9. #109

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    A little birdie told me that voting has now reached over 60% of the membership with the on-line voting to close at 5 p.m.

  10. #110

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    Leadership announcement is today at 6pm.
    www.decl.org

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    Is ol' Clarkie gonna be there ?


    Take up our quarrel with the foe
    To you, from failing hands, we throw
    The torch: be yours to hold it high,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Is ol' Clarkie gonna be there ?


    Take up our quarrel with the foe
    To you, from failing hands, we throw
    The torch: be yours to hold it high,
    Yes. He is here.

    Mandel. 66% win.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Is ol' Clarkie gonna be there ?


    Take up our quarrel with the foe
    To you, from failing hands, we throw
    The torch: be yours to hold it high,
    Yes. He is here.

    Mandel. 66% win.

    Hmm,I had enough of him as mayor. Leading the province, nope!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Is ol' Clarkie gonna be there ?


    Take up our quarrel with the foe
    To you, from failing hands, we throw
    The torch: be yours to hold it high,
    Yes. He is here.

    Mandel. 66% win.
    if the alberta party can fill a full slate of qualified candidates under mandel, the ndp and wild rose parties could be battling it out for official opposition status.

    if nothing else, notley and kenney won’t be able to continue playing polarized politics without playing in to mandel’s hand.

    this can’t help but be good for the province of alberta.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    I think next election will be quite interesting. I think both the UCP (former Red Tories) and NDP (those frustrated with NDP performance) could lose some voters to the Alberta Party.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    ^^ While I agree that the Alberta Party under Mandel might bring forth some good ideas, the only way they see the light of day is if Kenney steals them.

    ^ I disagree. I may be just a transplated Edmontonian now living in the Bible Belt of Canada, but I can't see anyone south of Ellerslie Road getting elected from the NDP next time around. Premier Notley's attempt to appease the self-proclaimed Best Place on Earth and the self-evident Poutinest Place on Earth with the carbon tax in order to get support for a pipeline (any pipeline!) didn't quite work out, so folks outside the Capital Region will think twice about electing a party that is shameless about four more years of deficits. (Not that we won't have four more years of deficits regardless, of course.) And the Alberta Party led by a former Edmonton mayor just won't register as a valid option for most people in Central or Southern Alberta (especially Calgary!) looking for the quickest exit from this dalliance with the left-of-centre. Granted, they may attract some Red Tory votes that went NDP last time, but the NDP/Alberta Party vote split will send the UCP candidate to the top of the heap.

    While I personally would consider a vote for the Alberta Party, assuming they truly are fiscally responsible, I may as well pee upwind. Zero chance my vote will be meaningful.

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    I don't think Calgary will vote for Edmonton's former mayor, or the rural areas. The UCP aren't red Tories, not at all. The NDP won't be in power!
    Last edited by H.L.; 28-02-2018 at 12:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Is ol' Clarkie gonna be there ?


    Take up our quarrel with the foe
    To you, from failing hands, we throw
    The torch: be yours to hold it high,
    Yes. He is here.

    Mandel. 66% win.

    Hmm,I had enough of him as mayor. Leading the province, nope!
    We could have potholes all the way down the QE2 and Transcanada and beyond if he gets in.

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    Even though 2019 is just around the corner I suspect with Mandel at the helm, the Alberta party will be Notley's official opposition. Kenny isn't that well known in Alberta and Mandel obviously is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Even though 2019 is just around the corner I suspect with Mandel at the helm, the Alberta party will be Notley's official opposition. Kenny isn't that well known in Alberta and Mandel obviously is.
    You think Kenney isn't well-known in Alberta? Maybe not as well known as Stephen Harper, but I'd say he's about on par with any other local-boy cabinet minister.

    Mandel is well known in Edmonton, for sure, and I'm guessing most people elsewhere in Alberta would know who he was, but I'd be surprised if he has any sort of a popular following.

    Granted, I don't know much about rural Alberta and how aware they are of Edmonton. That 66% vote-haul might indicate that he's pretty popular, but then, how much of the AP membership is concentrated in Edmonton?

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I don't think Calgary will vote for Edmonton's former mayor, or the rural areas. The UCP aren't red Tories, not at all. The NDP won't be in power!
    we’ll see about calgary and the rural areas... and you’re right that the ucp aren’t red tories, it’s just that most albertans are probably closer to that than they are to the ucp which is how the ndp got elected last time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I don't think Calgary will vote for Edmonton's former mayor, or the rural areas. The UCP aren't red Tories, not at all. The NDP won't be in power!
    we’ll see about calgary and the rural areas... and you’re right that the ucp aren’t red tories, it’s just that most albertans are probably closer to that than they are to the ucp which is how the ndp got elected last time.
    Well Mandel is going to criss cross Alberta, lets see how he's received - I guess some might park their vote with him, I pretty much think he's a lost cause, jmho though

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I don't think Calgary will vote for Edmonton's former mayor, or the rural areas. The UCP aren't red Tories, not at all. The NDP won't be in power!
    we’ll see about calgary and the rural areas... and you’re right that the ucp aren’t red tories, it’s just that most albertans are probably closer to that than they are to the ucp which is how the ndp got elected last time.
    Well Mandel is going to criss cross Alberta, lets see how he's received - I guess some might park their vote with him, I pretty much think he's a lost cause, jmho though
    Lost cause? Explain why please.

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    With Mandel becoming a leader of Alberta party may have weaken UCP a bit
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I don't think Calgary will vote for Edmonton's former mayor, or the rural areas. The UCP aren't red Tories, not at all. The NDP won't be in power!
    we’ll see about calgary and the rural areas... and you’re right that the ucp aren’t red tories, it’s just that most albertans are probably closer to that than they are to the ucp which is how the ndp got elected last time.
    Well Mandel is going to criss cross Alberta, lets see how he's received - I guess some might park their vote with him, I pretty much think he's a lost cause, jmho though
    Lost cause? Explain why please.
    Because to me, he was an okay mayor, but a premier? Nope, no chance.I just heard him talk, and he's trying too hard to sound hip and young, he's not, he's nearly 70. You'll see what I mean when he debates Notley and Kenney, he's out of his league

    .I did say jmho !

  26. #126

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    Well, there goes my support for the Alberta Party.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  27. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Well, there goes my support for the Alberta Party.
    Great news!

  28. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I don't think Calgary will vote for Edmonton's former mayor, or the rural areas. The UCP aren't red Tories, not at all. The NDP won't be in power!
    we’ll see about calgary and the rural areas... and you’re right that the ucp aren’t red tories, it’s just that most albertans are probably closer to that than they are to the ucp which is how the ndp got elected last time.
    Well Mandel is going to criss cross Alberta, lets see how he's received - I guess some might park their vote with him, I pretty much think he's a lost cause, jmho though
    Lost cause? Explain why please.
    Because to me, he was an okay mayor, but a premier? Nope, no chance.I just heard him talk, and he's trying too hard to sound hip and young, he's not, he's nearly 70. You'll see what I mean when he debates Notley and Kenney, he's out of his league

    .I did say jmho !
    Hmmm

    How old are you?

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I don't think Calgary will vote for Edmonton's former mayor, or the rural areas. The UCP aren't red Tories, not at all. The NDP won't be in power!
    we’ll see about calgary and the rural areas... and you’re right that the ucp aren’t red tories, it’s just that most albertans are probably closer to that than they are to the ucp which is how the ndp got elected last time.
    Well Mandel is going to criss cross Alberta, lets see how he's received - I guess some might park their vote with him, I pretty much think he's a lost cause, jmho though
    Lost cause? Explain why please.
    Because to me, he was an okay mayor, but a premier? Nope, no chance.I just heard him talk, and he's trying too hard to sound hip and young, he's not, he's nearly 70. You'll see what I mean when he debates Notley and Kenney, he's out of his league

    .I did say jmho !
    Hmmm

    How old are you?
    Why, what does that have to do with anything. You like him, you vote for him!

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    he's trying too hard to sound hip and young, he's not, he's nearly 70. You'll see what I mean when he debates Notley and Kenney, he's out of his league
    Yeah, his humour-meter at times has been decidedly pre-Gen X. Lady Gaga's "Oil C*untry" wasn't the funniest tweet in the world, but he came off like a bit of a prude when, upon being shown that obvious blooper, he pronounced it "disgusting".

    And who can forget his interpreting Chris Selley's "machetes" joke as a slight against Edmonton, when it was clearly a sarcastic jibe at Calgary's sense of superiority.

    And, while it didn't involve humour, his "bed-blockers" gaffe as Health Minister demonstrated a certain tone-deafness.

    That said, I think his best bet is to cultivate a "square hip" sort of image, embrace the dweebiness, so that people expect him not to always be the coolest guy at the party. His image sold in Edmonton for years, so it might world elsewhere too.

  31. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    he's trying too hard to sound hip and young, he's not, he's nearly 70. You'll see what I mean when he debates Notley and Kenney, he's out of his league
    Yeah, his humour-meter at times has been decidedly pre-Gen X. Lady Gaga's "Oil C*untry" wasn't the funniest tweet in the world, but he came off like a bit of a prude when, upon being shown that obvious blooper, he pronounced it "disgusting".

    And who can forget his interpreting Chris Selley's "machetes" joke as a slight against Edmonton, when it was clearly a sarcastic jibe at Calgary's sense of superiority.

    And, while it didn't involve humour, his "bed-blockers" gaffe as Health Minister demonstrated a certain tone-deafness.

    That said, I think his best bet is to cultivate a "square hip" sort of image, embrace the dweebiness, so that people expect him not to always be the coolest guy at the party. His image sold in Edmonton for years, so it might world elsewhere too.
    Perhaps Mandel is trying for the "square hip" image, but if that is the case Kenney must be trying for the "square square" image. Kenney seems to come across as 20 years older than he is, so image wise that puts him right around Mandel's age.

  32. #132
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    How many were in the room when Mandel was announced the leader, 15 plus the volunteers..lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Even though 2019 is just around the corner I suspect with Mandel at the helm, the Alberta party will be Notley's official opposition. Kenny isn't that well known in Alberta and Mandel obviously is.
    You think Kenney isn't well-known in Alberta? Maybe not as well known as Stephen Harper, but I'd say he's about on par with any other local-boy cabinet minister.

    Mandel is well known in Edmonton, for sure, and I'm guessing most people elsewhere in Alberta would know who he was, but I'd be surprised if he has any sort of a popular following.

    Granted, I don't know much about rural Alberta and how aware they are of Edmonton. That 66% vote-haul might indicate that he's pretty popular, but then, how much of the AP membership is concentrated in Edmonton?
    I'm not sure on the geographic vote here in Alberta but I think Southern Alberta had better voter turnout then Edmonton in 2015. Stephen said his campaign has a lot of work to do for 2019. The UPC has 26 seats. The Alberta Party will take seats away from the UPC in the next election but as I'm processing all of this I think the Alberta party could weaken the UPC's role of official opposition to Notley. That helps the NDP. One thing is certain the landscape in the ledge after the next election will look entirely different. It might depend though on how many seats the Alberta party can take away. As Notley's popularity begins to diminish exponentially, minimum wage increase in October wont help her Government get any closer to that majority status. Rural Alberta still remembers Bill 6, small business still remembers the last minimum wage increase and Parkland county has a sour taste in its mouth over the Keephills coal plants, just to name a few. Its not going to be an easy ride (imo) for the NDP next election. I talk with folks on a daily basis from Taber to Beaverlodge from adults of all ages and there isn't a week that doesn't go by I get someone saying Notley this and Notley that. Voters patience is wearing thin.
    Last edited by envaneo; 28-02-2018 at 01:26 PM.
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    Thanks for sharing your perspective, evaneo. Kind of lines up with my impressions from outside the province.

  35. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I don't think Calgary will vote for Edmonton's former mayor, or the rural areas. The UCP aren't red Tories, not at all. The NDP won't be in power!
    we’ll see about calgary and the rural areas... and you’re right that the ucp aren’t red tories, it’s just that most albertans are probably closer to that than they are to the ucp which is how the ndp got elected last time.
    Well Mandel is going to criss cross Alberta, lets see how he's received - I guess some might park their vote with him, I pretty much think he's a lost cause, jmho though
    Lost cause? Explain why please.
    Because to me, he was an okay mayor, but a premier? Nope, no chance.I just heard him talk, and he's trying too hard to sound hip and young, he's not, he's nearly 70. You'll see what I mean when he debates Notley and Kenney, he's out of his league

    .I did say jmho !
    Hmmm

    How old are you?
    Why, what does that have to do with anything. You like him, you vote for him!
    “and he's trying too hard to sound hip and young, he's not, he's nearly 70. ”

    “What does that have to do with anything.”

    Well, it seemed to matter to you, at least in terms of how Mandel sounds. Thus my question. You might be right about seeming hip and young and if that matters he may have troubles and that may be part of other candidate successes, such as Trudeau, but I’d like to think that age works in favour of leaders’ qualifications, and not inexperience. In the US Trump proved that age and how one sounds means little.
    Last edited by KC; 28-02-2018 at 01:57 PM.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I don't think Calgary will vote for Edmonton's former mayor, or the rural areas. The UCP aren't red Tories, not at all. The NDP won't be in power!
    we’ll see about calgary and the rural areas... and you’re right that the ucp aren’t red tories, it’s just that most albertans are probably closer to that than they are to the ucp which is how the ndp got elected last time.
    Well Mandel is going to criss cross Alberta, lets see how he's received - I guess some might park their vote with him, I pretty much think he's a lost cause, jmho though
    Lost cause? Explain why please.
    Because to me, he was an okay mayor, but a premier? Nope, no chance.I just heard him talk, and he's trying too hard to sound hip and young, he's not, he's nearly 70. You'll see what I mean when he debates Notley and Kenney, he's out of his league

    .I did say jmho !
    Hmmm

    How old are you?
    Why, what does that have to do with anything. You like him, you vote for him!
    “and he's trying too hard to sound hip and young, he's not, he's nearly 70. ”

    “What does that have to do with anything.”

    Well, it seemed to matter to you, at least in terms of how Mandel sounds. Thus my question. You might be right about seeming hip and young and if that matters he may have troubles and that may be part of other candidate successes, such as Trudeau, but I’d like to think that age works in favour of leaders’ qualifications, and not inexperience. In the US Trump proved that age and how one sounds means little.
    When he announced he was running, before he stepped up to the microphone, he did this weird little dance, stop trying so hard would be my advice to him, just be yourself.
    Again, everyone takes potshots at Kenney and Notley, if you think our former mayor will be immune, think again..

  37. #137

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    Can we please stop quoting a hundred posts in each reply?

  38. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    With Mandel becoming a leader of Alberta party may have weaken UCP a bit
    If anything it's the opposite. The Alberta Party attracts moderates and leftists more than any right wing people. Mandel's relative popularity will pose a challenge in Edmonton for the NDP. However, though I used to support Mandel as mayor I definitely won't this time. I don't know why the left and moderate left in this province constantly insists on dividing itself.

  39. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    With Mandel becoming a leader of Alberta party may have weaken UCP a bit
    If anything it's the opposite. The Alberta Party attracts moderates and leftists more than any right wing people. Mandel's relative popularity will pose a challenge in Edmonton for the NDP. However, though I used to support Mandel as mayor I definitely won't this time. I don't know why the left and moderate left in this province constantly insists on dividing itself.
    “The Alberta Party attracts moderates and leftists more than any right wing people”

    Please provide some proof please.

  40. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Can we please stop quoting a hundred posts in each reply?
    When we don’t quote accurately, people immediately start making up comments in their own words about what the other guy supposed said.

  41. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    With Mandel becoming a leader of Alberta party may have weaken UCP a bit
    If anything it's the opposite. The Alberta Party attracts moderates and leftists more than any right wing people. Mandel's relative popularity will pose a challenge in Edmonton for the NDP. However, though I used to support Mandel as mayor I definitely won't this time. I don't know why the left and moderate left in this province constantly insists on dividing itself.
    “The Alberta Party attracts moderates and leftists more than any right wing people”

    Please provide some proof please.
    Easy, because the vast vast majority of right wingers despise a carbon tax in any form. Mandel supports a carbon tax. He will not get their votes. That's just one example. In my experience, people who are right wing vote right wing if that option exists. They do not vote moderate or centrist.

  42. #142

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    The Alberta Party is likely to take more centrist leaning NDP members no matter what. Whether the Alberta Party gets to take some of the right wing depends not so much on it, but the United Conservative Party. If the UCP has a very badly timed "lake-of-fire" class moment close to the election, you may see some people shift from the UCP to the Alberta Party.

  43. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    With Mandel becoming a leader of Alberta party may have weaken UCP a bit
    If anything it's the opposite. The Alberta Party attracts moderates and leftists more than any right wing people. Mandel's relative popularity will pose a challenge in Edmonton for the NDP. However, though I used to support Mandel as mayor I definitely won't this time. I don't know why the left and moderate left in this province constantly insists on dividing itself.
    “The Alberta Party attracts moderates and leftists more than any right wing people”

    Please provide some proof please.
    Easy, because the vast vast majority of right wingers despise a carbon tax in any form. Mandel supports a carbon tax. He will not get their votes. That's just one example. In my experience, people who are right wing vote right wing if that option exists. They do not vote moderate or centrist.
    That’s all opinion - your opinion. It doesn’t confirm your fact.


    As for the carbon tax:


    Sales tax among issues discussed at first Alberta Party leadership debate | Globalnews.ca

    “Fraser and Mandel also criticized the carbon tax Wednesday, saying it hurts small business and is fundamentally unfair given that middle and low-income earners get rebates to offset the cost of the levy.

    “Certain people pay and other people don’t. I think that sends the wrong message,” said Mandel. “


    https://globalnews.ca/news/3986190/s...ership-debate/
    Last edited by KC; 28-02-2018 at 10:37 PM.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Thanks for sharing your perspective, evaneo. Kind of lines up with my impressions from outside the province.
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  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    The Alberta Party is likely to take more centrist leaning NDP members no matter what. Whether the Alberta Party gets to take some of the right wing depends not so much on it, but the United Conservative Party. If the UCP has a very badly timed "lake-of-fire" class moment close to the election, you may see some people shift from the UCP to the Alberta Party.
    I think Kenny is well aware of the "lake-of-fire" escaped that crippled Smith's campaign against Redford in 2011. The ghost of Hunsperger etc still haunts the party no matter what name they call themselves.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  46. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    The Alberta Party is likely to take more centrist leaning NDP members no matter what. Whether the Alberta Party gets to take some of the right wing depends not so much on it, but the United Conservative Party. If the UCP has a very badly timed "lake-of-fire" class moment close to the election, you may see some people shift from the UCP to the Alberta Party.
    I think Kenny is well aware of the "lake-of-fire" escaped that crippled Smith's campaign against Redford in 2011. The ghost of Hunsperger etc still haunts the party no matter what name they call themselves.
    I agree, Kenny is probably watching his caucus like a hawk. As much as he tries, though, a critical, off the cuff remark can hit at the worst time. Even the leader of the party can run into this as, Maker rest his soul, former Premier Prentice found in relation to his "I know that math is difficult" and "look in mirror" comments.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    How many were in the room when Mandel was announced the leader, 15 plus the volunteers..lol!
    About 300, including media. It was a smaller room too.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Can we please stop quoting a hundred posts in each reply?
    When we don’t quote accurately, people immediately start making up comments in their own words about what the other guy supposed said.
    An idea would be to snip the portion of the quote that gives meaning to your reply...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    How many were in the room when Mandel was announced the leader, 15 plus the volunteers..lol!
    About 300, including media. It was a smaller room too.
    How about that! My girlfriend was there, she like Mandel, but not enough to vote for him,she told me around 200, then less. No matter, only a very small portion actually voted for him..he won't do that well.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    The Alberta Party is likely to take more centrist leaning NDP members no matter what. Whether the Alberta Party gets to take some of the right wing depends not so much on it, but the United Conservative Party. If the UCP has a very badly timed "lake-of-fire" class moment close to the election, you may see some people shift from the UCP to the Alberta Party.
    I think Kenny is well aware of the "lake-of-fire" escaped that crippled Smith's campaign against Redford in 2011. The ghost of Hunsperger etc still haunts the party no matter what name they call themselves.
    He has beaten every poll, every time they give him x, he takes xyz..the guys good, and yes savvy!

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    ^ I'm sure he is but he's to right wing for me and kind of reminds me of Stockwell Day. I'll pass, thanks.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ I'm sure he is but he's to right wing for me and kind of reminds me of Stockwell Day. I'll pass, thanks.

    Yeah, I don't find him too right wing. There are things I don't like about him, but that pales in comparison ,to all things Notley and co.

  53. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    How many were in the room when Mandel was announced the leader, 15 plus the volunteers..lol!
    About 300, including media. It was a smaller room too.
    How about that! My girlfriend was there, she like Mandel, but not enough to vote for him,she told me around 200, then less. No matter, only a very small portion actually voted for him..he won't do that well.
    He won. Doesn’t that mean the largest portion voted for him?

  54. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    The Alberta Party is likely to take more centrist leaning NDP members no matter what. Whether the Alberta Party gets to take some of the right wing depends not so much on it, but the United Conservative Party. If the UCP has a very badly timed "lake-of-fire" class moment close to the election, you may see some people shift from the UCP to the Alberta Party.
    I think Kenny is well aware of the "lake-of-fire" escaped that crippled Smith's campaign against Redford in 2011. The ghost of Hunsperger etc still haunts the party no matter what name they call themselves.
    He has beaten every poll, every time they give him x, he takes xyz..the guys good, and yes savvy!
    When I read Kenny’s Wikipedia article I thought Kenny sounded like a Lake of Fire candidate himself. Just another guy that seems to have been born with political or power aspirations. No real private sector work that I can see but, yes, airy fairy studies. The “true destiny” remark is fascinating!

    Jason Kenney - Wikipedia
    “He went to high school in Wilcox, Saskatchewan, at the Athol Murray College of Notre Dame, a private Catholic high school, known for its hockey team, the Notre Dame Hounds.

    He is also listed as a 1986 alumnus of St. Michaels University School, a notable non-denominational independent school in Victoria, British Columbia.

    He studied philosophy at the University of San Francisco, a Jesuit university in San Francisco, California. During his time in San Francisco, he was interviewed by CNN, for a segment exploring "religious values". In the segment, he was credited as "Jason Kenny - Anti-abortion Activist".[7]. He argued against Jesuit professors, including Rev. John Clarke, who declared free speech essential to a university. Allowing pro-choice activists on campus, Kenney argued in the CNN interview, was "destroying the mission and the purpose of this university."

    He left university without graduating to begin work for the Saskatchewan Liberal Party.[8] He was "very involved in the young Liberals" as a young man, and in 1988 served as executive assistant to Ralph Goodale, who at the time was leader of the party.[9] But as a university student, he says he began "studying political theory, classical political theory" but soon realized it took effort to legitimate his own views so he then quit university to fulfill his true destiny in conservative realpolitik. ...”


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Kenney
    Bolding mine


    Stephen Mandel - Wikipedia
    “Mandel received an associate of arts degree from Lincoln College in Lincoln, Illinois, a bachelor of science in business administration from Miami University, and his masters in political science from the University of Windsor.

    He moved to Edmonton in 1972 from Windsor, Ontario.[6]

    Mandel owns the Strathcona County’s Lakeland Village mobile home park.[7]

    Mandel was active with promoting the city's arts and festival scene. He is also an active volunteer with the city's local Heart and Stroke Foundation and with several local Jewish organizations.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Mandel
    Last edited by KC; 01-03-2018 at 07:49 AM.

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Even the leader of the party can run into this as, Maker rest his soul, former Premier Prentice found in relation to his "I know that math is difficult" and "look in mirror" comments.
    Yeah, Top_Dawg still giggles at how that all panned out.

    Prentice.

    The beeg shot.

    Remember when they had that convention where he was basically coronated leader.

    And 'course about two thousand of the ol' PC baglickers, dingleberries, and chin strap dildos all desperate to be seen tonguing his anus.

    It was ' Jim this ' and ' Jim that ' and ' look what Jim can do ' .

    Yeah look what he did.

    Drove a forty year political dynasty off a cliff.



    Just hilarious.

  56. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    With Mandel becoming a leader of Alberta party may have weaken UCP a bit
    If anything it's the opposite. The Alberta Party attracts moderates and leftists more than any right wing people. Mandel's relative popularity will pose a challenge in Edmonton for the NDP. However, though I used to support Mandel as mayor I definitely won't this time. I don't know why the left and moderate left in this province constantly insists on dividing itself.
    “The Alberta Party attracts moderates and leftists more than any right wing people”

    Please provide some proof please.
    Easy, because the vast vast majority of right wingers despise a carbon tax in any form. Mandel supports a carbon tax. He will not get their votes. That's just one example. In my experience, people who are right wing vote right wing if that option exists. They do not vote moderate or centrist.
    That’s all opinion - your opinion. It doesn’t confirm your fact.


    As for the carbon tax:


    Sales tax among issues discussed at first Alberta Party leadership debate | Globalnews.ca

    “Fraser and Mandel also criticized the carbon tax Wednesday, saying it hurts small business and is fundamentally unfair given that middle and low-income earners get rebates to offset the cost of the levy.

    “Certain people pay and other people don’t. I think that sends the wrong message,” said Mandel. “


    https://globalnews.ca/news/3986190/s...ership-debate/
    Actually, there are some conservative commentators that support a carbon tax. Manitoba's PC government recently put in a carbon tax, as did BC years ago before the NDP won.

    However, its really a meaningless provincial debate now as the current carbon tax plan is a federal plan, meaning if a province drops out the provincial tax will be replaced by a federal one of the same amount or more. I hope Kenney is not trying to dupe people into thinking that getting rid of the provincial one will save people money - it will not. If he is saying that it is a lie.

  57. #157
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    I think this who carbon tax grab, is going to have to be thought over. Ontario, should the PCs get in, don't want that tax either! Let's see how JT does without mummy Wynne

  58. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I think this who carbon tax grab, is going to have to be thought over. Ontario, should the PCs get in, don't want that tax either! Let's see how JT does without mummy Wynne
    I'm not so sure they will get in. Someone in their party knifed their previous leader in the back and I don't think whoever they pick next will get treated much better.

    They seem to have flip flopped on their carbon tax, which was how the previous leader was going to pay for all their promises. They now have an election platform they can't pay for, so Ontario will probably have to go back into deficits. Wynne now has a surplus. She is going to have a lot of fun campaigning against the PC deficits. Of course the Alberta PC's and the Federal Conservatives had a lot of deficits too in the past, so its a bit of myth that conservatives are so fiscally responsible.

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    I remember fundraising for Tim Hudak's campaign back in 2011. Who-dat Hudak was the mantra at the time. I liked him but the Ontario voters were kind of sour on him. Today Tim is CEO of the Ontario Real Estate Association. He's probably grateful to be away from the scandal at Queens park.
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  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I think this who carbon tax grab, is going to have to be thought over. Ontario, should the PCs get in, don't want that tax either! Let's see how JT does without mummy Wynne
    I'm not so sure they will get in. Someone in their party knifed their previous leader in the back and I don't think whoever they pick next will get treated much better.

    They seem to have flip flopped on their carbon tax, which was how the previous leader was going to pay for all their promises. They now have an election platform they can't pay for, so Ontario will probably have to go back into deficits. Wynne now has a surplus. She is going to have a lot of fun campaigning against the PC deficits. Of course the Alberta PC's and the Federal Conservatives had a lot of deficits too in the past, so its a bit of myth that conservatives are so fiscally responsible.
    We'll see

  61. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    The Alberta Party is likely to take more centrist leaning NDP members no matter what. Whether the Alberta Party gets to take some of the right wing depends not so much on it, but the United Conservative Party. If the UCP has a very badly timed "lake-of-fire" class moment close to the election, you may see some people shift from the UCP to the Alberta Party.
    I think Kenny is well aware of the "lake-of-fire" escaped that crippled Smith's campaign against Redford in 2011. The ghost of Hunsperger etc still haunts the party no matter what name they call themselves.
    He has beaten every poll, every time they give him x, he takes xyz..the guys good, and yes savvy!

    This is BS


    Jason Kenney
    Jason Kenney
    @jkenney

    Wise words from @PrabbGill, on those who seem to view Albertans that weren't fortunate enough to be born here as 'lesser Albertans.' Alberta is the land of hope and opportunity, and we're fortunate that so many have chosen to make Alberta their home. #ableg #UCP

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jkenney/s...35344410574848

    Not “lesser”, maybe just not as loyal, long-term or as likely to stay. A whole lot of people here are just here to make good money or for the “opportunity” until they can move somewhere else. Watch any interview with Newfoundlanders etc working in the oil patch and odds are that they plan to move back or to retire somewhere else. Many do though decide to stay and raise families here after they have stayed a while. Nonetheless, a whole lot of workers that lost their jobs in downturns have NOT stayed to tough it out, but instead have moved on.

    I just watched Amazing Race - Canada and one of the winners was saying how he’s ‘never going back to work on the rigs ...’

    Moreover often those that were born here may be looked down on by some of those that move here from places like Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, etc.
    Last edited by KC; 13-03-2018 at 10:47 PM.

  62. #162

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    Had to laugh - at the K-Days parade The Alberta Party "float" and the Freedom Conservative Party "float" were exactly the same size. One party was launched about 36 hours prior and one has an MLA, had a leadership convention, has been "organizing" for years...

  63. #163

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    ^Parade float size really means nothing in terms of organizational capacity, fundraising, volunteers, etc.
    www.decl.org

  64. #164

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    Thanks for the pro tip. You must be some kind of well connected insider.

  65. #165

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    I simply cannot understand those socially responsible former Progressive Conservatives who refuse to vote for the present government because of bad memories of what the bad evil NDP may have once done somewhere else.

    The Alberta government of the past three years has been about as centrist as you can get. They have championed the oil industry, raised taxes very minimally if at all, have brought in few if any welfare programs, and have scarcely done anything socially radical.

    Unless you insist on outing potentially gay children and assaulting women seeking abortion, I guess.

    But if the NDP deserve to be voted out based solely on their name, it's your privilege to mark the ballot as you will.

    Only then please blame yourselves for all that will follow under the UCP government you shall deserve.

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Had to laugh - at the K-Days parade The Alberta Party "float" and the Freedom Conservative Party "float" were exactly the same size. One party was launched about 36 hours prior and one has an MLA, had a leadership convention, has been "organizing" for years...
    Well, wikipedia lists the FCP as having one seat in the legislature, so I guess they're counting Fildebrandt as an MLA. Obviously, not elected under that banner.

    And has he officially "crossed the floor" over to his own creation? Or is the wiki listing just de facto?

  67. #167

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    ^That's quite interesting doubleO. I hope someone challenges that entry. The Legislative Assembly of Alberta wiki lists filled-his-pants as an independent.

  68. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    ^Parade float size really means nothing in terms of organizational capacity, fundraising, volunteers, etc.
    You’re saying size doesn’t matter? Isn’t that just being PC?

  69. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I simply cannot understand those socially responsible former Progressive Conservatives who refuse to vote for the present government because of bad memories of what the bad evil NDP may have once done somewhere else.

    The Alberta government of the past three years has been about as centrist as you can get. They have championed the oil industry, raised taxes very minimally if at all, have brought in few if any welfare programs, and have scarcely done anything socially radical.

    Unless you insist on outing potentially gay children and assaulting women seeking abortion, I guess.

    But if the NDP deserve to be voted out based solely on their name, it's your privilege to mark the ballot as you will.

    Only then please blame yourselves for all that will follow under the UCP government you shall deserve.
    Its because voters of a certain age and older are party loyalists. They would elect a monkey as long as it’s running under the party banner.

    It is nice to see younger voters are not so myopic.
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    ^ Hey, don't lump me in with your "voters of a certain age and older".
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    ^That's quite interesting doubleO. I hope someone challenges that entry. The Legislative Assembly of Alberta wiki lists filled-his-pants as an independent.
    I could never figure out how to edit the stuff in the info boxes, and anyway, I wouldn't want to get into an editing war with someone, given that I don't have a user ID on wiki so my IP is visible.

    If someone else wants to edit the page, they're more than welcome to do so.

  72. #172
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    They could edit the guy's name to ajs' version.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  73. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I simply cannot understand those socially responsible former Progressive Conservatives who refuse to vote for the present government because of bad memories of what the bad evil NDP may have once done somewhere else.

    The Alberta government of the past three years has been about as centrist as you can get. They have championed the oil industry, raised taxes very minimally if at all, have brought in few if any welfare programs, and have scarcely done anything socially radical.

    Unless you insist on outing potentially gay children and assaulting women seeking abortion, I guess.

    But if the NDP deserve to be voted out based solely on their name, it's your privilege to mark the ballot as you will.

    Only then please blame yourselves for all that will follow under the UCP government you shall deserve.
    The best they can come up with is practically "The NDP is doing it wrong! We would implement the carbon tax this way instead!"

    Pretty nonsensical imo.

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ Hey, don't lump me in with your "voters of a certain age and older".
    nor me...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  75. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ Hey, don't lump me in with your "voters of a certain age and older".
    No kidding.

    And as if this forum needs yet another far-left poster who likes to lump individuals into hypothetical groups to demonize and play divisive games of identity politics with....

  76. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ Hey, don't lump me in with your "voters of a certain age and older".
    No kidding.

    And as if this forum needs yet another far-left poster who likes to lump individuals into hypothetical groups to demonize and play divisive games of identity politics with....
    ... to offset the far-right poster who likes to lump individuals into hypothetical groups to demonize and play divisive games of identity politics with.... ?

  77. #177

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    I know what you are saying, and I don't appreciate it.

    I am not far-right, nor do I participate in group identity politics, Dave.

    Please keep your labels to yourself.

  78. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I know what you are saying, and I don't appreciate it.

    I am not far-right, nor do I participate in group identity politics, Dave.

    Please keep your labels to yourself.
    I suspect the people on the left don't appreciate some comments made about them either. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

  79. #179

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    Alberta Party fundraised $174k in the second quarter.

    It's take a day or two for the numbers to come out in the media, but if someone wants to go digging for all the party numbers here is the link:

    http://efpublic.elections.ab.ca/index.cfm?MID=O1
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Alberta Party fundraised $174k in the second quarter.
    $857K for NDP
    $1012 for UCP
    $0 for FCP

    And the Alberta Party was only $149K according to the link.

    Libs $32K

  81. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I suspect the people on the left don't appreciate some comments made about them either. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
    Well, group identity politics and the intersectionality that it is used for is pushed exclusively by those on the far-left of the political spectrum (which there is a clear abundance of in this forum).

    I endorse and support equal rights of all individuals (just like the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does), and I vehemently oppose equal rights according to "groups". That's all.

  82. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ Hey, don't lump me in with your "voters of a certain age and older".
    No kidding.

    And as if this forum needs yet another far-left poster who likes to lump individuals into hypothetical groups to demonize and play divisive games of identity politics with....
    ... to offset the far-right poster who likes to lump individuals into hypothetical groups to demonize and play divisive games of identity politics with.... ?
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I know what you are saying, and I don't appreciate it.

    I am not far-right, nor do I participate in group identity politics, Dave.

    Please keep your labels to yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I know what you are saying, and I don't appreciate it.

    I am not far-right, nor do I participate in group identity politics, Dave.

    Please keep your labels to yourself.
    I suspect the people on the left don't appreciate some comments made about them either. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.



    Lack of active participation doesn’t mean that one’s entire sense of being isn’t shaped by label defined perceptions of the world.





    .
    Last edited by KC; 27-07-2018 at 12:03 PM.

  83. #183

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    I was not concerned with identity politics, but rather with wilful misgovernment in the name of populist lies.

    To be clear, my post #165 was a direct reply to kcantor's post #104.

    I could be wrong, but I suspect he won't much like the UCP government he and everyone who chooses to remain in Alberta is going to get next year.

    Trump and Ford are perfect examples of the political type. Kenney will be no different.

    At this point, the only decent option, frankly, is to leave the province and never look back.

  84. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I suspect the people on the left don't appreciate some comments made about them either. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
    Well, group identity politics and the intersectionality that it is used for is pushed exclusively by those on the far-left of the political spectrum (which there is a clear abundance of in this forum).

    I endorse and support equal rights of all individuals (just like the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does), and I vehemently oppose equal rights according to "groups". That's all.
    So are you saying its ok to malign certain groups other than yours, but not to protect them?

  85. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I was not concerned with identity politics, but rather with wilful misgovernment in the name of populist lies.

    To be clear, my post #165 was a direct reply to kcantor's post #104.

    I could be wrong, but I suspect he won't much like the UCP government he and everyone who chooses to remain in Alberta is going to get next year.

    Trump and Ford are perfect examples of the political type. Kenney will be no different.

    At this point, the only decent option, frankly, is to leave the province and never look back.
    It seems to me leaving is a bit defeatist. I suspect Trump et al wouldn't mind as it might help ensure or solidify their hold on power. I think if you strongly believe something, you should stand your ground and continue to fight for it. Political fortunes ebb and flow. For instance the anti communist hysteria in the US looked in the late 50's looked quite silly just a few years later and the country turned away from it almost as suddenly and unexpectedly as it went into it. The current state of affairs is only permanent if we let it become so.

  86. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I was not concerned with identity politics, but rather with wilful misgovernment in the name of populist lies.

    To be clear, my post #165 was a direct reply to kcantor's post #104.

    I could be wrong, but I suspect he won't much like the UCP government he and everyone who chooses to remain in Alberta is going to get next year.

    Trump and Ford are perfect examples of the political type. Kenney will be no different.

    At this point, the only decent option, frankly, is to leave the province and never look back.
    It seems to me leaving is a bit defeatist. I suspect Trump et al wouldn't mind as it might help ensure or solidify their hold on power. I think if you strongly believe something, you should stand your ground and continue to fight for it. Political fortunes ebb and flow. For instance the anti communist hysteria in the US looked in the late 50's looked quite silly just a few years later and the country turned away from it almost as suddenly and unexpectedly as it went into it. The current state of affairs is only permanent if we let it become so.
    That, and as time progresses and times change people undergo shifts in their own beliefs. Some of the seemingly radical political views are actually ahead of the times. Gay marriage might be one. I suspect fiscal conservatism might sometime even cycle though the broad population once again.

    That said, populist and populism (“populist lies”) are key aspects of democracy and majority rule.

  87. #187

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    Majority rule?

    Pfft.

    There's no such thing. Ever.

    The only thing to do with would-be populists is to torture them until they acknowledge the superiority of not being populists.

  88. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Majority rule?

    Pfft.

    There's no such thing. Ever.

    The only thing to do with would-be populists is to torture them until they acknowledge the superiority of not being populists.
    Ok I’ll grant you this one. You’re right, party rule isn’t majority rule. And a majority can at most pick from an independent candidate, which a majority never seems to actually do.

  89. #189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I was not concerned with identity politics, but rather with wilful misgovernment in the name of populist lies.

    To be clear, my post #165 was a direct reply to kcantor's post #104.

    I could be wrong, but I suspect he won't much like the UCP government he and everyone who chooses to remain in Alberta is going to get next year.

    Trump and Ford are perfect examples of the political type. Kenney will be no different.

    At this point, the only decent option, frankly, is to leave the province and never look back.
    It seems to me leaving is a bit defeatist. I suspect Trump et al wouldn't mind as it might help ensure or solidify their hold on power. I think if you strongly believe something, you should stand your ground and continue to fight for it. Political fortunes ebb and flow. For instance the anti communist hysteria in the US looked in the late 50's looked quite silly just a few years later and the country turned away from it almost as suddenly and unexpectedly as it went into it. The current state of affairs is only permanent if we let it become so.
    That, and as time progresses and times change people undergo shifts in their own beliefs. Some of the seemingly radical political views are actually ahead of the times. Gay marriage might be one. I suspect fiscal conservatism might sometime even cycle though the broad population once again.

    That said, populist and populism (“populist lies”) are key aspects of democracy and majority rule.
    Yes, populism is an aspect of democracy, but populism is more a political tactic or approach than an ideology. In Canadian history, I think there were as many or possibly more populists on the left than on the right.

  90. #190

    Default

    ^ indeed Canada has a long history with populism; however we also have a long held belief that government is a relatively good force and we have expected things of it and generally view it as something we can work with

    Unlike the USA which is very sceptical of govt and tends to view it as an inept oppressor.

  91. #191

    Default

    F--- the USA. They are the counterexample to how human beings ought to behave, organize themselves, think, live, act, and exist.

    Anyone who is influenced by American thinking is helping to destroy the world, period. If you are, you are the problem. There is no sympathy for you regardless of the plight you find yourself in.

  92. #192

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I was not concerned with identity politics, but rather with wilful misgovernment in the name of populist lies.

    To be clear, my post #165 was a direct reply to kcantor's post #104.

    I could be wrong, but I suspect he won't much like the UCP government he and everyone who chooses to remain in Alberta is going to get next year.

    Trump and Ford are perfect examples of the political type. Kenney will be no different.

    At this point, the only decent option, frankly, is to leave the province and never look back.
    Surrendering the place that one has roots, one cares for, and in which the others that one cares about is not a helpful option.


    If somebody else wrote your post you would label it cowardice which gets what it deserves.


    The answer unfortunately, and its never easy, is to learn to tilt against the windmills, pendulums, wait for a better wave, and do everything in the meantime to ensure the next change occurs while mitigating whatever harmful ones. The leave it approach doesn't accomplish anything but directly abdicating.
    Last edited by Replacement; 29-07-2018 at 11:47 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  93. #193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    I simply cannot understand those socially responsible former Progressive Conservatives who refuse to vote for the present government because of bad memories of what the bad evil NDP may have once done somewhere else.

    The Alberta government of the past three years has been about as centrist as you can get. They have championed the oil industry, raised taxes very minimally if at all, have brought in few if any welfare programs, and have scarcely done anything socially radical.

    Unless you insist on outing potentially gay children and assaulting women seeking abortion, I guess.

    But if the NDP deserve to be voted out based solely on their name, it's your privilege to mark the ballot as you will.

    Only then please blame yourselves for all that will follow under the UCP government you shall deserve.
    Its because voters of a certain age and older are party loyalists. They would elect a monkey as long as it’s running under the party banner.

    It is nice to see younger voters are not so myopic.
    This is simply a ridiculous conceit. Myopic? Populist politics has never been more evident in Canada. If anything this being indication of a population makeup increasingly willing to vote for any candidate, of any stripe, on the basis of superficial pandering and identity politics games rather than substance. We do tend to get the leaders we deserve in that respect.

    Heres a quick signpost in democracy. Richard Nixon got impeached. Donald Trump still rules. If you think democracy is getting better you are entitled to that thought.
    We don't have the present level of activism that would stop the Vietnam war, or that would end McCarthyism or demand meaningful social and societal change. We have instead increasing stratification, increased Oligarchy, power and money in the few, and populaces that desperately vote for Trump protectionism and division. We live in a world that has seen massive bank bailouts, manufacturer bailouts, housing and loan bailouts and with barely more than a yawn from the new and improved electorate that accepts these things.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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