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Thread: Dangerous, speeding bicyclists on river valley trails

  1. #1

    Default Dangerous, speeding bicyclists on river valley trails

    Walked my dog at Queen Elisabeth Park and this bicyclist barreled down slope at a fast rate of speed, crashed into me from behind.

    Was at a hiking/walking group during the evening in the river valley, and my dog had a light on him. Section of Q E Park used to be a roadway so its very wide, lots of room for everybody. A bicyclist approached full speed behind the group, without giving any notice/warning. Rear member yelled out "BIKE!" I turned around to look, but it was too late. Bicyclist instead of passing on the left, decided to squeeze between me and my dog. Clipped me, which pushed me off to the side and snapped the 'hands free' leash in half. Bicyclist was caught on the leash which caused him to fall. I was worried that my dog was injured, but doggie gave me the look that he's alright.

    Mr Bicycle Assh*le got up, took off, fast, didn't want to face the consequences of his extremely dangerous actions. Had he clipped me an inch closer it would of sent me tumbling. I was totally p*ssed off, ruined my evening.

    Emailed 311, asking if maybe more signage could be installed. To remind bicyclists that these are shared trails.

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    Some of them are read @ssholes!

  3. #3

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    I emailed police service about taking measures, because it happens too often that cyclists dangerous actions risk injury to pedestrians. Its happened often on river valley trails and the High Level Bridge sidewalk, where cyclists ignore the safety/respect for pedestrians.

    1) Can I apprehend and detain the cyclist - making a citizens arrest for assault or attempted 'hit and run' incident.

    2) Cyclists are required to have a bell and I would like to see a crack down on cycling infractions. This would have the effect of getting cyclists to be more aware of rules/respect when approaching pedestrians.

    3) Are there bylaws concerning the conduct of cyclists on river valley trails. Like ringing bell before passing pedestrians, or slowing to a safe speed.

  4. #4

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    ^I'm a little concerned with this post.

    #1 I drive with a bell, I use it, but pedestrians often completely ignore it or can't hear it as nearly all bike paths are located next to roads. The standard ring a ding bike bell simply isn't that loud. I often ring it multiple times to no real effect. So that I often end up passing pedestrians safely, often having to leave the trail as they often walk in tandem or group occupying the entire trail. (not proper use in anyway and NOT sharing the path)

    But you specifically mentioning "can I apprehend" is dangerous in many ways. For one if somebody grabs a handlebar on a moving bike the cyclist will possibly crash even at low speed. Sheer physics is the body will keep moving forward even if the bike is arrested suddenly. Next, if somebody was trying to grab me or my bike as I'm cycling I would automatically, and certainly view that as an assault. I would treat it immediately as I would an assault, and I would aggress. I would defend and counter in an instant. That would be my, and virtually anybodies instinct that was accosted as they were riding a bike.

    You have no permission to dangerously impede or stop or "citizen arrest" moving cyclists or so much as touch them. That you think you might makes me wonder if you and your reactivity is as much the problem. Just share the trail, allow room to pass, and you should rarely have any difficulty with any cyclist who's goal is simply to get by you safely. No cyclist is looking for an accident or collision. We avoid those at all costs.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  5. #5

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    I had a bike once. Fact.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  6. #6

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    Replacement - your post is confusing. Cyclist going fast downhill, crashes into me from behind(without any warning, almost injures me), and rides away fast(to avoid getting caught), and your saying I shouldn't try to apprehend him. By what you're implying is that if a motorist or cyclist hits a pedestrian from behind and peels out of there(as fast as possible), basically a 'hit and run', that one should not try to catch the offender. Doesn't make sense to me.

  7. #7

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    hands free leash, bike came between dog and owner... just how much leash did you have out? I've often seen dogs on leash that are basically a trip wire extending out across the entire trail. Dog playing in the trees on one side of the path, clueless/oblivious owner on the other side of the path, trip wire in the middle.

    Cyclists and walkers, joggers, hikers, bird watchers, xc skiers, and all other users of the path need to share and get a long. Yes, cyclists should ring a bell when approaching (it's the law).

    If we are going after cyclists, maybe we can go after dog owners as well? Owners that let their dogs off leash in non-off leash areas? Or dogs that chase others, bite people on bikes, etc. Owners that don't clean up after their dogshit.
    Quite often I'll come across a group of walkers who have no regard for other users and walk 5 wide across the entire multi-use trail. Ring a bell to pass, and they all just freeze on the spot, or completely ignore said bell, forcing the cyclist to go on the grass.


    trekaw, I'm sure you and your group aren't none of that right? Your dog wasn't on oneside of the trail, and you on the other side, no trip wire (dog leash) extending the entire path way...

  8. #8

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    Most joggers and many walkers, even cyclists are often blissfully unaware because of those stupid earbuds. They don't hear my bell so I yell but they often react in the wrong way, stepping into the middle path rather than to the side.

    I have had my share of hair raising experiences, the most memorable was coming down the Forrest Heights Park steep bike path towards 98A Ave. I came down at full speed and at the bottom corner, Parks and Rec were planting trees and parked a Bobcat in the MIDDLE of the path. There was just inches of pavement on the inside corner available and a deep muddy rut immediately at the edge of the pavement. No time to brake, I shot through that narrow bit of pavement with only inches to spare. Did not hit the Bobcat or the muddy rut. Still don't know how I did it and avoided almost certain death or injury.
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    Where we walked, most bikes had no bell, and I think it should be law. Others didn't use it. I was always aware I had two dogs on leaches, but there were times I felt I should let the leash way out!

  10. #10

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    It is the law, cyclists must ring a bell before approaching/passing a pedestrian on multi-use trails.

    There are often times were I've felt like throwing your mutt into the river, but never have.

  11. #11

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    "Cyclists must sound a warning device, such as a horn or bell, before passing pedestrians on shared-use pathways "

    https://www.edmonton.ca/transportati...ws-safety.aspx
    Last edited by Medwards; 20-12-2017 at 09:38 AM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by trekaw View Post
    Replacement - your post is confusing. Cyclist going fast downhill, crashes into me from behind(without any warning, almost injures me), and rides away fast(to avoid getting caught), and your saying I shouldn't try to apprehend him. By what you're implying is that if a motorist or cyclist hits a pedestrian from behind and peels out of there(as fast as possible), basically a 'hit and run', that one should not try to catch the offender. Doesn't make sense to me.
    I'm saying your attempt to "Catch" a moving cyclist would be more dangerous than anything and almost certainly perceived as a potential assault in progress. If you came at me as I'm cycling trying to grab me I would assume you were insane, a hungry zombie, or wanting to assault somebody at random.

    I'll repeat as well that no cyclist wants to hit any object, pedestrian, dog, dog leash, tree, etc. if a pedestrian or dog gets hit by a cyclist my automatic first impression is that the dog or person moved into the path unexpectedly. I don't know what it is with pedestrians on multiuse trails but the concept of maintaining one position on the trail seems too much to expect. So often they wave around like they are drunk. I could see kids doing this and not paying attention, adults should know better. Walk to the side, not the middle, walk in single file on busy and narrow trails and PLEASE don't hover all over the trail.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  13. #13

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    Run a stick through his spokes or string a cable between two trees on opposite sides of the path are both sure ways to stop a cyclist...

    Warning: Do not attempt
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by trekaw View Post
    Replacement - your post is confusing. Cyclist going fast downhill, crashes into me from behind(without any warning, almost injures me), and rides away fast(to avoid getting caught), and your saying I shouldn't try to apprehend him. By what you're implying is that if a motorist or cyclist hits a pedestrian from behind and peels out of there(as fast as possible), basically a 'hit and run', that one should not try to catch the offender. Doesn't make sense to me.
    I'm saying your attempt to "Catch" a moving cyclist would be more dangerous than anything and almost certainly perceived as a potential assault in progress. If you came at me as I'm cycling trying to grab me I would assume you were insane, a hungry zombie, or wanting to assault somebody at random.

    I'll repeat as well that no cyclist wants to hit any object, pedestrian, dog, dog leash, tree, etc. if a pedestrian or dog gets hit by a cyclist my automatic first impression is that the dog or person moved into the path unexpectedly. I don't know what it is with pedestrians on multiuse trails but the concept of maintaining one position on the trail seems too much to expect. So often they wave around like they are drunk. I could see kids doing this and not paying attention, adults should know better. Walk to the side, not the middle, walk in single file on busy and narrow trails and PLEASE don't hover all over the trail.
    Agree with all of this for paved paths except walking single file, unless the path isn't even wide enough to pass oncoming walkers. If you're passing you might just have to wait if you don't want to pass on the grass.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Run a stick through his spokes or string a cable between two trees on opposite sides of the path are both sure ways to stop a cyclist...

    Warning: Do not attempt
    Great way to go to jail, too, if someone is seriously injured.

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    As a pedestrian, I always thank a cyclist that uses their bell before they pass me. It reinforces the good behavior.

    The dogs off-leash in on-leash areas has gotten out of hand. I encounter them almost every time I go down to Mill Creek Ravine. I wish the city would actually patrol the areas and hand out tickets.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    As a pedestrian, I always thank a cyclist that uses their bell before they pass me. It reinforces the good behavior.

    The dogs off-leash in on-leash areas has gotten out of hand. I encounter them almost every time I go down to Mill Creek Ravine. I wish the city would actually patrol the areas and hand out tickets.
    I agree.
    We stopped going, I never take them off leash, unless I find a ballpark or field with no other dogs. And yes, we always have poop bags with us..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    It is the law, cyclists must ring a bell before approaching/passing a pedestrian on multi-use trails.

    There are often times were I've felt like throwing your mutt into the river, but never have.
    Well about 50% don't use it, and I have two dogs, not mutts, that are well behaved.
    They would however, like to toss you in the river!

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    My conclusion from this thread as well as walking and cycling on the multi-use paths is few of the people using them use them correctly. Between cyclists not respecting pedestrians, pedestrians walking all over the path (or on the wrong side), to those running their dogs loose on them, there's no one group that isn't causing a problem. Not sure what the solution is though. Enforcement across all the paths would be fairly costly. Perhaps an aggressive information campaign of some sort.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  20. #20

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    There's currently a blitz to go after dog walkers who don't leash their dogs, or their dogs are out of control in off-leash parks http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...s-on-bike-path

    This past summer, there were several blitz to catch bikers with out bells, or who aren't using bells. I went through 2 of these blitzes, 1 in Terwillegar park, and one in the middle of the hawrylak footbridge. Bikers without bells were actually given bells, and a warning, and told about the fine they could've received

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    My conclusion from this thread as well as walking and cycling on the multi-use paths is few of the people using them use them correctly. Between cyclists not respecting pedestrians, pedestrians walking all over the path (or on the wrong side), to those running their dogs loose on them, there's no one group that isn't causing a problem. Not sure what the solution is though. Enforcement across all the paths would be fairly costly. Perhaps an aggressive information campaign of some sort.
    Yup, unfortunately it's not any one group that causes all or even most problems. It's just an unfortunate fact that people in general have a high likelihood of having their head up their rear at any given time. I try to avoid well used paths when out mountain biking because many trail users are on another planet most of the time, with headphones preventing them from hearing my approach or bell or yell, dogs running rampant off leash when they shouldn't be, cyclists disobeying all kinds of traffic laws whether for vehicles or pedestrians, and people of all sorts outright blocking the path while they chat with some friends they bumped in to. This happens all the time along River Valley Road and up MacKinnon Ravine, which is incredibly busy. And yet people will give you a dirty look if you tell them they shouldn't be stopped in the middle of the path and to take two steps to the side. If not outright argue with you about it.

  22. #22

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    I've been on out on single track trails that I've help build sections of (with the EMBA, who had city approval), and being told that bikes aren't allowed, and that I shouldn't be biking on bike trails, and that "my dog has every right to be here and I don't need to clean up poop, and get off my path" basically, even though its a bike trail built by bikers ,for bikers, with the approval of the city.

    Once almost got in a fist fight with a guy trying to push me off my bike in millcreek, because "You shouldn't be riding in millcreek, there's endangered species here" which was kinda ironic as his off leash dog was currently off chasing something moving in the bush.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    My conclusion from this thread as well as walking and cycling on the multi-use paths is few of the people using them use them correctly. Between cyclists not respecting pedestrians, pedestrians walking all over the path (or on the wrong side), to those running their dogs loose on them, there's no one group that isn't causing a problem. Not sure what the solution is though. Enforcement across all the paths would be fairly costly. Perhaps an aggressive information campaign of some sort.
    Yup, unfortunately it's not any one group that causes all or even most problems. It's just an unfortunate fact that people in general have a high likelihood of having their head up their rear at any given time. I try to avoid well used paths when out mountain biking because many trail users are on another planet most of the time, with headphones preventing them from hearing my approach or bell or yell, dogs running rampant off leash when they shouldn't be, cyclists disobeying all kinds of traffic laws whether for vehicles or pedestrians, and people of all sorts outright blocking the path while they chat with some friends they bumped in to. This happens all the time along River Valley Road and up MacKinnon Ravine, which is incredibly busy. And yet people will give you a dirty look if you tell them they shouldn't be stopped in the middle of the path and to take two steps to the side. If not outright argue with you about it.
    You're the guy that yells at random people on trails. Figured as much. Eat a snickers or something..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Well now there are bike lanes,be sure and use them! All 5000, or under!

  25. #25

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    I do use them, thanks, but the discussion isn't about commuter bike lanes, it's about the recreational multi-use paths in the river valley.

    Like many things on C2E, it's another hard concept for you to grasp.

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    How is asking people standing in the middle of the path to move to the side "yelling at random people". Even calling ahead to people walking in the wrong lane isn't "yelling it random people", it's functionally the same as using your car horn properly, to indicate your presence. When riding I'll call out "on your left" if I'm approaching people who I need to move to the right to get out of the way because they're walking down the centre line.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I do use them, thanks, but the discussion isn't about commuter bike lanes, it's about the recreational multi-use paths in the river valley.

    Like many things on C2E, it's another hard concept for you to grasp.
    Its not hard to grasp at all, unlike you and your bad manners!

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I do use them, thanks, but the discussion isn't about commuter bike lanes, it's about the recreational multi-use paths in the river valley.

    Like many things on C2E, it's another hard concept for you to grasp.
    Its not hard to grasp at all, unlike you and your bad manners!
    pot kettle black much?

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    How is asking people standing in the middle of the path to move to the side "yelling at random people". Even calling ahead to people walking in the wrong lane isn't "yelling it random people", it's functionally the same as using your car horn properly, to indicate your presence. When riding I'll call out "on your left" if I'm approaching people who I need to move to the right to get out of the way because they're walking down the centre line.
    I was joking about the poster saying that they ring the bell or yell.

    That said the "passing on your left", for some reason, confuses pedestrians ahead as much as anything. I often find when you say something like that they will move to the left. Its uncanny, but whether you state anything or not the murphys law seems to be that as you pass the pedestrians ahead will move towards your lane position. I've rarely seen anybody in the last moment move away. But if I had a dime for how many people veered toward the pass unexpectedly.

    Of course the thing is if pedestrians just occupied right hand rule, and stayed in that position there were rarely be any issue.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    How is asking people standing in the middle of the path to move to the side "yelling at random people". Even calling ahead to people walking in the wrong lane isn't "yelling it random people", it's functionally the same as using your car horn properly, to indicate your presence. When riding I'll call out "on your left" if I'm approaching people who I need to move to the right to get out of the way because they're walking down the centre line.
    I was joking about the poster saying that they ring the bell or yell.

    That said the "passing on your left", for some reason, confuses pedestrians ahead as much as anything. I often find when you say something like that they will move to the left. Its uncanny, but whether you state anything or not the murphys law seems to be that as you pass the pedestrians ahead will move towards your lane position. I've rarely seen anybody in the last moment move away. But if I had a dime for how many people veered toward the pass unexpectedly.

    Of course the thing is if pedestrians just occupied right hand rule, and stayed in that position there were rarely be any issue.


    My experience was saying "on your left" worked better than anything else. I'm not sure why people's instincts are to move to the left when they hear something behind them. Another thing that helps is slowing down, moving to the left, and calling out when you're fairly close so when you call out the sound is coming from that side. That seems to cause people to move to the right more often.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I do use them, thanks, but the discussion isn't about commuter bike lanes, it's about the recreational multi-use paths in the river valley.

    Like many things on C2E, it's another hard concept for you to grasp.
    Its not hard to grasp at all, unlike you and your bad manners!
    pot kettle black much?
    A 7 year old gives that as a comeback, grow up!

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    ...says the 5 year old. Respect your elders...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ...says the 5 year old. Respect your elders...
    Na
    Last edited by H.L.; 22-12-2017 at 03:23 PM.

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    Oh, wow! What a witty repeated comeback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Oh, wow! What a witty repeated comeback.
    Na
    Last edited by H.L.; 22-12-2017 at 03:22 PM.

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    OK Hello Lady
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    Blocked!

  38. #38

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    Excellent.

    I knew you would come through Hello Lady.
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