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Thread: Enbridge Tower - 10201 Jasper Ave. - 300 room hotel (2 hotels) - under construction

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    Default Enbridge Tower - 10201 Jasper Ave. - 300 room hotel (2 hotels) - under construction

    This will be a conversion from commercial office to a 250 room upscale internationally branded extended stay hotel - a first for downtown Edmonton. More details to come in the coming months.
    Last edited by alambie; 03-02-2018 at 10:24 PM.

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    Interesting. Definitely a great location. Short walk to the ICE district and a lot of great places for food and drink in between.

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    I think there is demand for an extended stay hotel in the downtown, especially if it's a well known name brand. Good location for it no doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    I think there is demand for an extended stay hotel in the downtown, especially if it's a well known name brand. Good location for it no doubt.
    What kinda love do you think the tower will get? Anything street level? A reclad?
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    Nice!!! This is exactly what the downtown needs! I hope the tower gets recladded.

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    I think street level definitely needs improvment. Also would like to see a new glass roof with lighting if possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    I think there is demand for an extended stay hotel in the downtown, especially if it's a well known name brand. Good location for it no doubt.
    Isn't that what the Coast Edmonton Tower and Alberta Place Suites Hotel were targeting?

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    I don't think this one needs a re-clad, unless it's for efficiency purposes. A good pressure wash and then pump those dollars into street level remodelling, and I'll be happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    I think there is demand for an extended stay hotel in the downtown, especially if it's a well known name brand. Good location for it no doubt.
    What kinda love do you think the tower will get? Anything street level? A reclad?
    It will definitely get podium level updates and a good cleaning. We will release our renders in a few months time.

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    Exciting times.
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    Overall this is one of the nicer older towers but definitely some podium updates would be really nice to see. Ideally it would be really nice to see some better interaction with the sidewalk, even as simple as not having all the windows curtained off.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    More people living/staying right on Jasper is fantastic. Excited for updates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alambie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    I think there is demand for an extended stay hotel in the downtown, especially if it's a well known name brand. Good location for it no doubt.
    What kinda love do you think the tower will get? Anything street level? A reclad?
    It will definitely get podium level updates and a good cleaning. We will release our renders in a few months time.
    Awesome! Looking forward to those!

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    This must be away off as one of my clients is moving offices to this building due to renovations in another AIMCO owned building they lease in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    This must be away off as one of my clients is moving offices to this building due to renovations in another AIMCO owned building they lease in.
    The conversion will start this summer.

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    Interesting. My client only has a small footprint, so perhaps they are able to do the conversions while there's still office tenants on other floors? Or the conversion is only taking up part of the building?

    I literally just had this office move come across my desk last week - to take place in June - so very curious.

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    Interesting.

    Not good in the sense there wasn't enough absorption for the office space, requiring them to convert the unused space to hotel space.

    Good in the sense will bring in out of towners who disproportionately spend more money and time on the streets - I suspect the core will benefit.

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    How does one retrofit per-suite washrooms into what was per-floor washrooms in a conversion like this?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Interesting. My client only has a small footprint, so perhaps they are able to do the conversions while there's still office tenants on other floors? Or the conversion is only taking up part of the building?

    I literally just had this office move come across my desk last week - to take place in June - so very curious.
    Could this be in another Enbridge building? There's the new one with the Enbridge name, but before that there was this one and one other. I don't think it would make sense for them to take new office clients if they're going hotel.

    But then there's the Financial Building going residential on some floors and not on others so who knows.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    How does one retrofit per-suite washrooms into what was per-floor washrooms in a conversion like this?
    Marcel is your guy for this answer, but with a ton of coring and a lot of new piping.
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    A significant portion of the mechanical systems in a building like this would have to be ripped out and installed new. Depending on how old the systems are, in some cases, basically everything will need to be replaced. And often you'll even need new services for water and drainage, given the significantly different usage and demands. It's not simple, that's for sure.

    It'll be interesting to see what becomes of the "attic" in the peaked portion of the building. There's some serious potential there for something extremely unique, if it can be made to work.

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    ^bingo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Interesting. My client only has a small footprint, so perhaps they are able to do the conversions while there's still office tenants on other floors? Or the conversion is only taking up part of the building?

    I literally just had this office move come across my desk last week - to take place in June - so very curious.
    Could this be in another Enbridge building? There's the new one with the Enbridge name, but before that there was this one and one other. I don't think it would make sense for them to take new office clients if they're going hotel.

    But then there's the Financial Building going residential on some floors and not on others so who knows.
    Yes, after talking with my client and a PM with Alambie, my client is moving to Enbridge place, not tower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alambie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    This must be away off as one of my clients is moving offices to this building due to renovations in another AIMCO owned building they lease in.
    The conversion will start this summer.
    i'm excited about this project and it's positive impact on the core both for the reduction in office vacancy and the additional use/activity that will take its place.

    i'm even more excited to read about a permitting and approval process that will allow the conversion to start this summer!

    any chance you could share the process with the rest of us?
    Last edited by kcantor; 05-02-2018 at 05:27 PM.
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    At the Ten (a 70's era commercial bldg), the washrooms are raised to allow room for plumbing.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Wow! That is a very nice exterior re-do!

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    That did not look like a redo of the building to me. It looked like a new tower beside the old place.

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    Sure does. It looks like it might have been from a couple years back when landlords and developers were competing to be Enbridge's new location.

    Looks like an interesting proposal, and I like Manulife II in there too. Odd that the description is that it's residential, because it sure doesn't look it.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    That did not look like a redo of the building to me. It looked like a new tower beside the old place.
    Yup, you're right. Jumped the gun on that one.

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    ^bingo.

    It was Procura's offer to the Enbridge RFP.
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    I didn't realize there was a space on top. I thought it was just an enclosed point.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I didn't realize there was a space on top. I thought it was just an enclosed point.
    It's just an empty space as of now, yes.

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    Stay tuned tonight for a story on the former Enbridge tower on Jasper/102st.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Stay tuned tonight for a story on the former Enbridge tower on Jasper/102st.
    Which channel?

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    FYI Vinesh Pratap is doing a piece for Global Edmonton.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    FYI Vinesh Pratap is doing a piece for Global Edmonton.
    Vinesh will absolutely crush this story. Look forward to it.

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    Just a picture of my tv screen, sorry for low res.
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    Highlights:
    - Lighthouse Hospitality
    - Bought it last month
    - Strip to the bones
    - 2 hotels (one extended), 300 rooms
    - street level retail focus on hospitality and health spa
    - 18 months
    - $65-70 million
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^Great addition to Jasper, especially opening up the ground floor.

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    An interesting project. It may well cancel out the building of a couple of new hotels though. 70 mil is a lot of dough to spend on this building. Will definitely be high end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    An interesting project. It may well cancel out the building of a couple of new hotels though. 70 mil is a lot of dough to spend on this building. Will definitely be high end.
    i think that was total project value and not hard construction costs being spent on the building but even so that comes to almost $350 psf which should include enough for hard construction - even if it’s half of the total - to make for a very nicely done project if it’s spent well. for comparison, new hotel hard construction costs would probably be in the $350 - 450 psf range with something in the jw marriott niche even higher than that.
    Last edited by kcantor; 03-06-2018 at 10:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    An interesting project. It may well cancel out the building of a couple of new hotels though. 70 mil is a lot of dough to spend on this building. Will definitely be high end.
    Other hoteliers with a lower room rate point won't be concerned. And I am not sure the Lighthouse are currently managing a high end hotel like the Le Germaine chain (as an example) and competitors may not be distracted by a local independent hotel without the clout of a chain to fill the rooms. From the Lighthouse webpages they appear to indicate they offer a suite of management services - but indicate only one (1) Hyatt property in the Edmonton West End and its the lower end Hyatt Place. That said, I wish them luck and hope they develop a top notch property and it is successful.

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    I miss the former name, we could claim to go to the IPL Tower

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    Workers on site


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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    An interesting project. It may well cancel out the building of a couple of new hotels though. 70 mil is a lot of dough to spend on this building. Will definitely be high end.
    i think that was total project value and not hard construction costs being spent on the building but even so that comes to almost $350 psf which should include enough for hard construction - even if it’s half of the total - to make for a very nicely done project if it’s spent well. for comparison, new hotel hard construction costs would probably be in the $350 - 450 psf range with something in the jw marriott niche even higher than that.
    You’re definitely the guy to ask, how does a developer go about protecting themselves from unforeseen issues in repurposing a building? This may be an oversimplification, but I’ve experienced household renovations gone amok because of the things found behind the plaster and it really drove the final price up on me. Is it less about capital cost and more about the potential headache that some of our towers aren’t getting repurposed? Because at that price per sq foot, and the increasing demand for hotel rooms in the city, it seems economically viable to repurpose some of our office space into hotels rather than to build from new.
    Last edited by Stevey_G; 24-07-2018 at 10:21 AM.

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    Interior demolition is ongoing
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    An interesting project. It may well cancel out the building of a couple of new hotels though. 70 mil is a lot of dough to spend on this building. Will definitely be high end.
    i think that was total project value and not hard construction costs being spent on the building but even so that comes to almost $350 psf which should include enough for hard construction - even if it’s half of the total - to make for a very nicely done project if it’s spent well. for comparison, new hotel hard construction costs would probably be in the $350 - 450 psf range with something in the jw marriott niche even higher than that.
    You’re definitely the guy to ask, how does a developer go about protecting themselves from unforeseen issues in repurposing a building? This may be an oversimplification, but I’ve experienced household renovations gone amok because of the things found behind the plaster and it really drove the final price up on me. Is it less about capital cost and more about the potential headache that some of our towers aren’t getting repurposed? Because at that price per sq foot, and the increasing demand for hotel rooms in the city, it seems economically viable to repurpose some of our office space into hotels rather than to build from new.
    emphasis added...

    it’s a question that reminds of that old maxim... do you know how to become a very successful small developer? you need to start as big one.

    i think you can protect yourself from most risks by identifying them and then allowing for them in your proforma, even for the unknowns. the more you don’t know, the more of that you have to do. as examples, you may end up with a construction contingency (or more than one if you know enough to identify more than one area where it’s approriate such as foundations or environmental or demolition etc.), one or more design contingencies, interest rate risk, foreign exchange risk if your investors aren’t all canadian etc.

    of course the risk in the above is to do it and still have a viable project. while you can control or manage your costs like this, your revenue will be fixed by what the market will pay when you’re done, not what you need to make a profit. too much safety will just mean not doing a project because you won’t be able to finance it.

    and then there’s the real unknown risk - who else is making the same decisions at the same time you are? one developer making it is a good decision but six developers making the same good decision individually can be a disaster for all of them and you’re often too committed to change your minds by the time you find out. and then there’s the macroeconomic impacts to go along with the local market decisions...

    nothing to it.
    Last edited by kcantor; 28-07-2018 at 09:20 AM.
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    My dad tried a few businesses including the developer/builder thing. And a silent partner thing in a manufacturing business. In both those cases unrecoverable partner debts were the unexpected risks that ultimately doomed the businesses. A manager running up a demand lian/line of credit after the partners said don’t do that was one initial surprise when the bank called the loan and seized the assets with zero time to cover. However he was always proud to be able to say he built the closest new apartment building to the downtown at the time. And the houses he built are still standing.
    Last edited by KC; 28-07-2018 at 09:33 AM.

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    Yeah, Pa_Dawg always said to go it alone.

    And never do business with a friend.

    Unless of course you want to lose both the business.

    And the friend.

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    Pa_Dawg was handing out sage advice when he said that.

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    Former Enbridge Tower on Jasper Avenue begins conversion into extended-stay hotel

    Renovations are underway on the former Enbridge Tower with reservations not far behind as the 23-storey building begins development into a downtown hotel.

    The office building on the corner of Jasper Avenue and 102 Street, known for its peaked roof, was purchased by Edmonton-based Lighthouse Hospitality Inc. at the end of April.

    The redesign is expected to cost around $65 million to $70 million and take 18 months to complete, Lighthouse president Paul Aulakh said in an interview Friday morning.

    His proposed plan includes two separate hotel branches, with about 300 rooms, run under one chain. One hotel will offer the traditional short-term stay and the other will be geared toward extended stays, something Aulakh said is lacking in the downtown core.

    “We think there has been a need for that,” he said. “We should be able to announce in the next week to couple of weeks which brand we are going with.”

    Several prominent hotel brands have been in discussion with the developer, including Hyatt, Marriott and Delta.

    The outside structure will mostly remain intact, Aulakh said, but with plans to open up the main floor front to Jasper Avenue and 102 Street with glass windows. As for the iconic peak, it will remain in place with plans to project LED lighting.

    “It stands out as it is, but it’s really going to stand out once we’re done,” he added.

    For the first couple of floors, Aulakh said the idea is to include restaurants, a spa, gym, and all the amenities traditionally found in a hotel.

    They are also in talks with a brewery and other food concepts, he said.

    A three-level underground parkade will remain, which Aulakh said is a treasure to have in the downtown core.

    Above the extended-stay hotel rooms, Aulakh said the top few floors will have apartments for rent geared toward people who like the downtown spot and are interested in having these extra amenities attached to the hotel.
    Now that the work is underway, can the thread title be changed to something else?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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