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Thread: Rural Crime in Alberta

  1. #1

    Default Rural Crime in Alberta

    Sad but times are changing in rural Alberta...

    Interesting comment in one article about 'not being able to arrest their way out of the situation'. I think that's a good attitude. Prevention seems better than putting more people in prison and setting them up as permanently unemployable - which of course means that they end up turning to crime once out. I'm not sure what the better approach would be but it's not like there's a lot of evidence that the incredibly severe penalties used in past ages ever stopped the crimes - may in fact have made them even more violent.


    Rural crime has communities taking matters into their own hands

    Catherine Griwkowsky, Edmonton Journal, January 28, 2018

    The days of waiting for the RCMP to be guardians and saviours are over in rural Alberta.

    In Smoky Lake, Trevor Tychkowsky, president of the Alberta Provincial Rural Crime Watch Association, said more and more farmers are installing security systems and locking their doors.

    “The days of having our places kept open and keys in vehicles, those days are done,” said Tychkowsky. “Criminals have come to figure that stuff out.”

    As theft has steadily increased in Alberta, more and more security systems are being installed on rural properties, he added.

    “That was unheard of before. It was pretty safe to have your toys and tractors with keys sitting right in them. Not anymore. That can’t happen,” said Tychkowsky.

    ...
    An Integrated Crime Reduction unit was formed to tackle repeat offenders. In one case in 2017, RCMP arrested three people police say were linked to 300 calls for service before they were finally nabbed.
    ...

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/crim...heir-own-hands
    Alberta RCMP changing tactics to address rural crime: commanding officer
    By Sarah Kraus, Global News, December 26, 2017


    It’s been called an epidemic and between the home invasions, robberies, ATM grabs, gas and dash’s and property thefts, rural Alberta had more than it’s share of crime in 2017.

    “There’s normally a small number of people that are responsible for a large portion of the crime that occurs within our respective communities,” Shean said.
    He said he is implementing an idea he’s used successfully in eastern Canada, right here in Alberta.

    To start with, he’s investing more into the intelligence division.

    “Be it property crime, and who’s impacting us there, or be it the more sophisticated organized crime that affects us here in the province, I really feel you can be innovative in how you attack crime, but first you need to understand it,” Shean said.

    ...
    “We’re already seeing short-term results, but it’s going to take a little longer.”

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3926191/a...nding-officer/



    What's growing in rural Alberta? Rural crime, say residents visiting legislature

    Emma Graney, Edmonton Journal, November 27, 2017

    Mabel Hamilton used to talk to her neighbours about the weather. Now, conversations are all about local crime.

    Her Innisfail-area home has been robbed twice over the past year, and two trucks stolen. Her dogs were able to thwart another pair of attempted robberies, scaring off the culprits as they tried to break in.

    Hamilton and her husband are ranchers. They’ve been home each time.

    “To be that bold — that’s the part that amazes me. We’re in the barn and they’re trying to get into our house,” Hamilton said Monday.

    She was one of more than 100 rural Albertans who descended on the legislature to raise their concerns about what Hamilton called “rampant” crime in their communities.

    Allan Erickson was another. He and his wife live just outside Spruce View, around 50 km southwest of Red Deer.

    Their home was robbed twice within three days this summer.

    Like Hamilton, Erickson said the constant topic of conversation in the coffee shop and at work these days is crime — who was broken into, whose vehicle was stolen.

    “We’re having a hard time understanding what’s being done about it. It’s just not working. It’s epidemic proportions,” Erickson said.

    ..."

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...ng-legislature

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    It's been like this for awhile now. It doesn't get noticed because out of sight, out of mind.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    It has gotten much worse though. People drive on your property like its common land, or a park!

  4. #4

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    i hate that the rural folk make it about them when crime in the city is as bad or worst. I had my house robbed once and the police couldn't be bothered to show up for 5 hours. I had to clear the house myself to make sure no one was in it still.

    Worst part yet is with the trial in sask youve got the red neck rural folk claiming theyll shoot anyone on site on their properties.

    There is definitely a worthy discussion to give property owners better rights to defend their homes but that won't be happening now as per a recent liberal release.

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    What is the property crime rate in the US where states have Castle Doctrine ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    i hate that the rural folk make it about them when crime in the city is as bad or worst. I had my house robbed once and the police couldn't be bothered to show up for 5 hours. I had to clear the house myself to make sure no one was in it still.

    Worst part yet is with the trial in sask youve got the red neck rural folk claiming theyll shoot anyone on site on their properties.

    There is definitely a worthy discussion to give property owners better rights to defend their homes but that won't be happening now as per a recent liberal release.
    Oh right, like the case in sask, where they had a gun, and they were drunk, and they tried to steal, bloody saints!
    Not all people living in the country are red necks, just like all city dwellers are not uppity little lefties.
    Last edited by H.L.; 13-02-2018 at 09:42 PM.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    What is the property crime rate in the US where states have Castle Doctrine ?
    I actually saw stats somewhere and it didn't make things any better

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    i hate that the rural folk make it about them when crime in the city is as bad or worst. I had my house robbed once and the police couldn't be bothered to show up for 5 hours. I had to clear the house myself to make sure no one was in it still.

    Worst part yet is with the trial in sask youve got the red neck rural folk claiming theyll shoot anyone on site on their properties.

    There is definitely a worthy discussion to give property owners better rights to defend their homes but that won't be happening now as per a recent liberal release.
    Oh right, like the case in sask, where they had a gun, and they were drunk, and they tried to steal, bloody saints!
    I'll share a good thread later from a lawyer who broke down the facts as presented in the case. He doesnt say someone is guilty or not guilty but touches upon the facts as accepted by yhe jury.

    It's a pretty crazy sequence of events that any lawyer would laugh at... but it was accepted as facts in the trial.

    Regardless of that trial rural crime or crime in the city is an issue... hate to say it but many parts of the city are worst then in the country.

    The rural folk like to make themselves out to be victims as though people in the city have it easy.

    Edited: here is the link

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...1&id=514000570

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    i hate that the rural folk make it about them when crime in the city is as bad or worst. I had my house robbed once and the police couldn't be bothered to show up for 5 hours. I had to clear the house myself to make sure no one was in it still.

    Worst part yet is with the trial in sask youve got the red neck rural folk claiming theyll shoot anyone on site on their properties.

    There is definitely a worthy discussion to give property owners better rights to defend their homes but that won't be happening now as per a recent liberal release.
    Oh right, like the case in sask, where they had a gun, and they were drunk, and they tried to steal, bloody saints!
    I'll share a good thread later from a lawyer who broke down the facts as presented in the case. He doesnt say someone is guilty or not guilty but touches upon the facts as accepted by yhe jury.

    It's a pretty crazy sequence of events that any lawyer would laugh at... but it was accepted as facts in the trial.

    Regardless of that trial rural crime or crime in the city is an issue... hate to say it but many parts of the city are worst then in the country.

    The rural folk like to make themselves out to be victims as though people in the city have it easy.

    Edited: here is the link

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...1&id=514000570
    I've never heard either say they have it better or worse. I think you should be able to defend yourself from drunken punks, so if anyone broke into our house and hurt my animals or my family, I have a baseball bat, and I would use it!

  10. #10

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    I’d characterize the history as the rural people knowing they had it better than the cities. However now their situations are becoming as bad as the cities and worse in some ways such as; if they need help, it’s simply not going to be coming.

    For a few years now there have been reports of acreage breakins being on the rise because thieves feel quite safe breaking in to residences when the owner is out.




    As an aside, I’ve posted on a couple other forum’s threads about searching for friendly private property signs (which don’t seem to exist for sale) for out at our cabin. It’s amazing how hostile many, many posters are about anyone coming on to their land. There’s many posts on shooting anyone that steps on their property. Mostly bluster by there are a lot of crazy people out there. I however don’t want to put up the rather hostile sounding “No Trespassing” signs.

    Here’s some quick grabs of my previous conversation on “polite” / friendly private property signage:


    Member # Posted: 2 Mar 2015 22:11 - Edited by: KinAlberta
    Reply Quote

    Well one thing in Canada I'd guess is that there's a bit of tradition of people moving freely about on property since so much of it was uninhabited or in the case of natives and early pioneers they likely went anywhere they desired. No harm no foul. Still, a few No Trespassing signs seem warranted.

    I'd like to know what conservation programs you're involved in - ...
    The Use Respect Program

    Use RespectThe Use Respect program is an initiative of Alberta Environment and Sustainable Resource Development and the Alberta Conservation Association. Its purpose is to build awareness of the rights and responsibilities of recreationists, agricultural leaseholders, and landowners, particularly as they pertain to recreational access to lands.

    http://mywildalberta.com/Hunting/LandAccess.aspx


    Here's the best sign I've seen so far:


    source:
    http://www.liska.ca/2014/06/
    "50% of the Bruce still crosses private property. Generous land owners allow passage for travelers, so we are careful to respect their privacy and their property."


    Page 4 of this is interesting - orange paint on fence posts

    http://macdnet.org/WY%20Fence%20Guide_FINAL.pdf

    # Posted: 26 Jun 2015 03:13
    Reply Quote

    The thing is, why does anyone care that someone is walking uninvited on their property? We have.... lakefront with a beautiful creek flowing through it and have always had people stop their boats and step ashore. Families from the very close by RV resort regularly walked onto our property to see the creek with all its wildlife. We've always been totally fine with that. Didn't care for any trash people left but that was very rare. Bottom line was that people were just wanting to see some nature and they weren't out to rob us or anything like that. And signs will never stop those that come to steal.
    Quote Originally Posted by KinAlberta
    In my case I don't want to allow any hunting or fires, but don't mind people hiking at their own risk.

    Just got a call from a neighbour out there. They found a hind end of a moose that was shot and butchered (leaving two younger moose behind) on our property. We had an old barbed wire gate that was down and people were ATVing through it. The No Trespassing sign a hundred feet away apparently didn't deter them.

    Neighbour isn't impressed either that people are shooting a few thousand feet from their subdivision.

    Modifying that sign I posted further up this thread I may get the following signs made up:



    NO FIRES - NO HUNTING

    PRIVATE PROPERTY

    FOR HIKING ONLY at ONE'S OWN RISK
    ALL OTHER USES PROHIBITED

    Well, it seems that the sign images are no fixed in a PDF


    Zoom in on these links for good examples:

    Scroll down first:
    http://www.liska.ca/2014/06/

    https://justinpluslauren.com/bruce-trail-niagara-falls/


    Montana too

    In Idaho, Orange Paint Means 'No Trespassing'

    Did you know that in Idaho, the color orange means “No Trespassing” regardless of whether or not there is a posted sign?

    "If you come across fence posts, with the top 18 inches or more painted orange, you should get out. You’re on private property and they don’t want you there."
    I’ve lived in Idaho for most of my life and had no idea, uniI I saw this information about states that use various paint colors to identify private property lines. In Texas, they use purple. In Idaho, orange is the color that means “Keep out!”

    ...


    http://kezj.com/in-idaho-orange-pain...o-trespassing/

    What Do You Do When You See This Purple Paint In Montana?

    http://971kissfm.com/what-do-you-do-...nt-in-montana/
    Last edited by KC; 14-02-2018 at 05:19 PM.

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    It's too bad there are not equal protests out there supporting the farmer. All that's going to happen now is policy is going to change because of these vocal minorities.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    It's too bad there are not equal protests out there supporting the farmer. All that's going to happen now is policy is going to change because of these vocal minorities.
    That’s a court case - over an issue that will forever be contentious no matter what the outcome. (Remember Weibo Ludwig and the common sentiment that he was in the wrong in that case. Maybe because people didn’t like him. I don’t know if he was even charged.) Anytime any stranger is shot on someone’s property a claim can be made that it was self-defence. Actually not even with strangers. I could imagine that a lot of seemingly self-defense killings might actually outright premeditated staged murders where the victim is lured to a house or property and then off’d.

    As for protests, read the article in my first post. The farmers are already protesting
    Last edited by KC; 14-02-2018 at 09:34 AM.

  13. #13

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    Some legal basics:

    trespassing, trespass, edmonton

    http://www.slsedmonton.com/trespass/




    Rights of hunters and landowners - The Law - The Western Producer

    https://www.producer.com/2002/10/rig...wners-the-law/
    Last edited by KC; 14-02-2018 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    It's too bad there are not equal protests out there supporting the farmer. All that's going to happen now is policy is going to change because of these vocal minorities.
    Of course, and they can go on his land, do what they want...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post

    I'll share a good thread later from a lawyer who broke down the facts as presented in the case. He doesnt say someone is guilty or not guilty but touches upon the facts as accepted by yhe jury.

    It's a pretty crazy sequence of events that any lawyer would laugh at... but it was accepted as facts in the trial.

    Regardless of that trial rural crime or crime in the city is an issue... hate to say it but many parts of the city are worst then in the country.

    The rural folk like to make themselves out to be victims as though people in the city have it easy.

    Edited: here is the link

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...1&id=514000570
    I was wondering how fast the unfortunate events in Saskatchewan would become the theme. 4 posts. The conversation is not about the Stanley verdict, but more about crime in general.

    I could share a lot of other facebook links too, it doesn't mean anything else other than one's perspective. There are posts flying around from Native Canadians saying things like it is time to have the community grow up. OK. Here are the key "facts" as I see it. A) no one posting was actually a juror. B) no one posting was either counsel. C) No one posting was the judge. If you weren't in the trial, then you don't know.

    To your points specifically, I don't see anywhere a conversation saying rural folks have it "worse". In fact, I see many posts saying they had it "better" for years. Low crime was an attractive piece of the rural lore. However, the spike in rural crime is alarming. If Edmonton had the same spike (as represented per capita), there would be all kinds of uproar. Yes, city crime is still "worse", if you can call it that. No rural person I know thinks people in the city "have it easy", to quote you.

    When it comes to home defense, especially with guns, I will tell you that I have had far scarier conversations with urban dwellers when it comes to "home defenders" (aka shotguns or handguns).

    The crime escalation out my way is easily 90-99% urbanites coming out for a quick steal in an area where they think no one will notice. In the city, odds of being noticed are greater. Now, I see homes like mine investing in CCTV, alarms, etc. That was not even a thought 10 years ago. Again, it isn't that people out here have it worse, it is the geometric escalation in crime.

    As for the inevitable race conversation that will come up now that the Stanley piece was brought up, out my way, the property crime I see is overwhelmingly perpetrated by Caucasians. It aligns to the demographics of the area, and of Edmonton. However, on a personal note, the issues I've had are from rather diverse backgrounds. In short, a jerk is a jerk, no matter the skin tone.

    ...and as for the lawyers "laughing", well, anecdotally my wife and her law partners, associates, peers, etc are NOT laughing. This discussion is quite serious, and the rhetoric spewed on social media and traditional media is as concerning as the story itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L
    [It has gotten much worse though. People drive on your property like its common land, or a park!
    This is the biggest issue. I have people using my driveway as a racetrack, driving all over fields destroying crops, road poaching 3 moose, and the most amazing...a group of Edmonton campers deciding that my hay field was a great campground. When I noticed smoke coming from my north quarter section, I thought there was a forest fire (this was in 2015 during the huge drought), so I was worried and rushed out. I ended up upon a group of 20 or so campers, all set up and having a bonfire surrounded by tinder dry alfalfa, and they started threatening me when I asked them what they were doing. All were from Edmonton. It was a rather diverse group of people that normally trespass to get onto the NS River, but I guess that route was full of other tresspassers. I now have the field gated off.

    KC, to your point, and why I bring up the trespassing on my place, it is about your liability more than it is about some vague aspect of freedom of movement. As noted above, if that camping expedition caused a forest fire, I would have to then prove that I didn't allow the camping and fire to absolve me of any responsibility in the subsequent fire. Also, there is a large spread of pathogens like Clubroot that is devastating to agriculture. One person 4X4-ing on land will bring the dirtborne spores onto uninfected land. Companies and farmers spend tons of $$$ disinfecting equipment, only to have it spread by people looking for free trails.

    The best way is to actually post signs that say No hunting or fishing without permission. Co-Op sells these. I have several on my place. No Trespassing is a bit of a given, but you should put a couple up anyway. No Trespassing is not hostile, but the juvenile "This property is protected by Smith and Wesson" or "trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again" are just plain stupid. ...and as for the bravado of internet cowboys that say they would shoot someone on their land on sight, they wouldn't. It takes a lot to take a life, let alone a human life. The military spends years stripping down your ability to see the figure in your sights as a person with a family, rather than just a "target". I've heard the same bravado before, and not one person who has said that resorts to shooting someone when the trespassing happens. Not one. I actually have more issues with out of area trespassers (usually city dwellers looking for a hidden place to be a-holes) threatening me with being shot....that and poachers.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    ^Any hunting groups or forums I'm a part of paint the rural folk as disadvantaged and far more likely to get hit by crime then in the city. It's a logic I haven't been able to understand as the city has its own challenges that they seem to dismiss.

    It is an issue regardless of where you are. Different challenges but an equal issue regardless of where you live

  17. #17

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    To add a bit of levity ---- my farm was located alongside the #1 hwy. east of Calgary and I was the victim of multiple gas thefts from my overhead 500 gallon fuel tanks (4 diesel and one gas). I relabeled one diesel tank as gas and labeled the gas tank as #2 diesel. The offending gas thieves could always be found within a mile or two down the highway

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    Classic.

    Top_Dawg has to give you a high five for that one.

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    LOL. Did the same thing. It worked wonders.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ^Any hunting groups or forums I'm a part of paint the rural folk as disadvantaged and far more likely to get hit by crime then in the city. It's a logic I haven't been able to understand as the city has its own challenges that they seem to dismiss.

    It is an issue regardless of where you are. Different challenges but an equal issue regardless of where you live
    ...then you need new forums, or less whiners and BS'ers.

    The issue is the geometric increase in crime. With advances in cell technology and spread, pavement out this far, and all the other conveniences that make life out here easier than 1974, it also attracts opportunists.

    Yes, I have my concerns out here. ...but I had far more issues with crime in Edmonton, and more so in Calgary. I won't even get into NYC and Houston...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post

    I'll share a good thread later from a lawyer who broke down the facts as presented in the case. He doesnt say someone is guilty or not guilty but touches upon the facts as accepted by yhe jury.

    It's a pretty crazy sequence of events that any lawyer would laugh at... but it was accepted as facts in the trial.

    Regardless of that trial rural crime or crime in the city is an issue... hate to say it but many parts of the city are worst then in the country.

    The rural folk like to make themselves out to be victims as though people in the city have it easy.

    Edited: here is the link

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...1&id=514000570
    I was wondering how fast the unfortunate events in Saskatchewan would become the theme. 4 posts. The conversation is not about the Stanley verdict, but more about crime in general.

    I could share a lot of other facebook links too, it doesn't mean anything else other than one's perspective. There are posts flying around from Native Canadians saying things like it is time to have the community grow up. OK. Here are the key "facts" as I see it. A) no one posting was actually a juror. B) no one posting was either counsel. C) No one posting was the judge. If you weren't in the trial, then you don't know.

    To your points specifically, I don't see anywhere a conversation saying rural folks have it "worse". In fact, I see many posts saying they had it "better" for years. Low crime was an attractive piece of the rural lore. However, the spike in rural crime is alarming. If Edmonton had the same spike (as represented per capita), there would be all kinds of uproar. Yes, city crime is still "worse", if you can call it that. No rural person I know thinks people in the city "have it easy", to quote you.

    When it comes to home defense, especially with guns, I will tell you that I have had far scarier conversations with urban dwellers when it comes to "home defenders" (aka shotguns or handguns).

    The crime escalation out my way is easily 90-99% urbanites coming out for a quick steal in an area where they think no one will notice. In the city, odds of being noticed are greater. Now, I see homes like mine investing in CCTV, alarms, etc. That was not even a thought 10 years ago. Again, it isn't that people out here have it worse, it is the geometric escalation in crime.

    As for the inevitable race conversation that will come up now that the Stanley piece was brought up, out my way, the property crime I see is overwhelmingly perpetrated by Caucasians. It aligns to the demographics of the area, and of Edmonton. However, on a personal note, the issues I've had are from rather diverse backgrounds. In short, a jerk is a jerk, no matter the skin tone.

    ...and as for the lawyers "laughing", well, anecdotally my wife and her law partners, associates, peers, etc are NOT laughing. This discussion is quite serious, and the rhetoric spewed on social media and traditional media is as concerning as the story itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L
    [It has gotten much worse though. People drive on your property like its common land, or a park!
    This is the biggest issue. I have people using my driveway as a racetrack, driving all over fields destroying crops, road poaching 3 moose, and the most amazing...a group of Edmonton campers deciding that my hay field was a great campground. When I noticed smoke coming from my north quarter section, I thought there was a forest fire (this was in 2015 during the huge drought), so I was worried and rushed out. I ended up upon a group of 20 or so campers, all set up and having a bonfire surrounded by tinder dry alfalfa, and they started threatening me when I asked them what they were doing. All were from Edmonton. It was a rather diverse group of people that normally trespass to get onto the NS River, but I guess that route was full of other tresspassers. I now have the field gated off.

    KC, to your point, and why I bring up the trespassing on my place, it is about your liability more than it is about some vague aspect of freedom of movement. As noted above, if that camping expedition caused a forest fire, I would have to then prove that I didn't allow the camping and fire to absolve me of any responsibility in the subsequent fire. Also, there is a large spread of pathogens like Clubroot that is devastating to agriculture. One person 4X4-ing on land will bring the dirtborne spores onto uninfected land. Companies and farmers spend tons of $$$ disinfecting equipment, only to have it spread by people looking for free trails.

    The best way is to actually post signs that say No hunting or fishing without permission. Co-Op sells these. I have several on my place. No Trespassing is a bit of a given, but you should put a couple up anyway. No Trespassing is not hostile, but the juvenile "This property is protected by Smith and Wesson" or "trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again" are just plain stupid. ...and as for the bravado of internet cowboys that say they would shoot someone on their land on sight, they wouldn't. It takes a lot to take a life, let alone a human life. The military spends years stripping down your ability to see the figure in your sights as a person with a family, rather than just a "target". I've heard the same bravado before, and not one person who has said that resorts to shooting someone when the trespassing happens. Not one. I actually have more issues with out of area trespassers (usually city dwellers looking for a hidden place to be a-holes) threatening me with being shot....that and poachers.
    On the signage, we now have No Trespassing signs up on two roads backing our place. Found No Hunting signs and have a few up (someone was shooting a rife not far from our cabin when I was there in the middle of tiling)
    Have found remains of camp fires too.
    Plus a breakin this past fall into four buildings (not the cabins though).
    Yeah, the liability risk is what I fear.

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    Liability is your biggest issue.

    This, if any one reason, is what is driving people bonkers.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ^Any hunting groups or forums I'm a part of paint the rural folk as disadvantaged and far more likely to get hit by crime then in the city. It's a logic I haven't been able to understand as the city has its own challenges that they seem to dismiss.

    It is an issue regardless of where you are. Different challenges but an equal issue regardless of where you live
    ...then you need new forums, or less whiners and BS'ers.

    The issue is the geometric increase in crime. With advances in cell technology and spread, pavement out this far, and all the other conveniences that make life out here easier than 1974, it also attracts opportunists.

    Yes, I have my concerns out here. ...but I had far more issues with crime in Edmonton, and more so in Calgary. I won't even get into NYC and Houston...
    Albertas largest hunting forum is all about rural crime and how bad it is. It seems every other day theres a new post talking about setting traps or discussions on shooting trespassers.

    It's quite the cess pool when it comes to rural crime and defending your property.

    You have a well balanced view on crime in general thats refreshing to see.

  24. #24

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    The unfortunate part of human nature is that when we actually see our possessions getting stolen the knee jerk reaction is to defend our property. If we were not there and came home after the fact we would be angry but really not much we can do about it except call the police and the insurance company. Now I can imagine it being hard for a person rural or not to actually witness the crime but at the end of the day its just 'stuff' that can be replaced by insurance. A life, not so much.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  25. #25

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    Except not all things can be replaced. (And insurance may not cover the loss. While I t hasn’t been stolen yet, our old ski boat is in like new condition - but minimally insured because it’s old and mostly uninsurable. If it was stolen it’s value woulx simply be gone.)

    Also the damage they do when breaking in is a pain to deal with. A breakin back (2nd latest one) they cut the padlock off then hammed a hole through the door to reach inside to just undo the door knob latch. Kicking it in eould have done less damage. They also smashed the light fixture above (I still have to replace the patched door and the fixture). This last time a couple months ago they only had to cut off the padlock as the door knob has failed (no problem- I bought 16 keyed alike locks so I’d have some spares to replace those that were cut off.

    Saw a security video a while back of a truck driving through a garage door to get inside. Not something they’d do in the city.
    Last edited by KC; 14-02-2018 at 10:36 PM.

  26. #26
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The unfortunate part of human nature is that when we actually see our possessions getting stolen the knee jerk reaction is to defend our property. If we were not there and came home after the fact we would be angry but really not much we can do about it except call the police and the insurance company. Now I can imagine it being hard for a person rural or not to actually witness the crime but at the end of the day its just 'stuff' that can be replaced by insurance. A life, not so much.
    It happens a couple of times, you're p! ssed off, but over and over, I think you can get really angry..in the city 911 responds pretty fast, in the country, not so fast..

  27. #27

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    Exactly.

    Skim this article.

    Mean dogs and bear spray: Rural Alberta communities on guard during ‘epidemic’ of crime - The Globe and Mail

    “...Ms. McLeod found the visit so unnerving that she posted photos she was able to snap of the pair surreptitiously to a local crime-watch Facebook group. Days later, she learned they had been arrested nearby and that the man was charged with mischief.”...


    “ "Everyone is on guard," said Brad Dallas, a long-time Bowden-area farmer whose property was broken into three times in 2017, the thieves making off with an all-terrain vehicle, a semi-trailer, tools and electronics. ...”


    “Dane Bruce said his OC Archery Range – located where the Calgary bedroom community of Airdrie meets the countryside – has been broken into three times in the past two years. The robberies have left him with smashed windows and stolen cash registers....”

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle37757132/
    Last edited by KC; 15-02-2018 at 11:54 AM.

  28. #28

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    He pulled up the security video on his cellphone - see video on article
    (interesting and scary what happened when he chased them in his vehicle )


    Alberta ranch hand speaks out after being shot at by robbers
    July, 2018

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3630217/r...thern-alberta/


    Consider farm security to keep crime in check - The Western Producer
    https://www.producer.com/2017/06/con...rime-in-check/




    I imagine security camera video dramatically cuts the cost of prosecution, and might even cut the cost of catching thieves.

    Too bad there isn’t a way for the RCMP to deploy a number of temporary, portable security systems to a high crime rate territory to deal with crime. Then otherwise randomly do so to different areas.
    Last edited by KC; 18-02-2018 at 12:52 PM.

  29. #29
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    Yeah, it is kind of scary.

    I've been shot at before. Once by a truckload of poachers. Once by river trespassers. It isn't fun.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ...I have people using my driveway as a racetrack, driving all over fields destroying crops, road poaching 3 moose, and the most amazing...a group of Edmonton campers deciding that my hay field was a great campground. When I noticed smoke coming from my north quarter section, I thought there was a forest fire (this was in 2015 during the huge drought), so I was worried and rushed out. I ended up upon a group of 20 or so campers, all set up and having a bonfire surrounded by tinder dry alfalfa, and they started threatening me when I asked them what they were doing. All were from Edmonton. It was a rather diverse group of people that normally trespass to get onto the NS River, but I guess that route was full of other tresspassers. I now have the field gated off.

    KC, to your point, and why I bring up the trespassing on my place, it is about your liability more than it is about some vague aspect of freedom of movement. As noted above, if that camping expedition caused a forest fire, I would have to then prove that I didn't allow the camping and fire to absolve me of any responsibility in the subsequent fire. .
    This reverse onus nonsense needs to be fixed. Trespassing needs to be treated an "at your own risk" activity. No going after landowners because the squatters that violated the fire ban are harder to catch. Even if they were camping with permission, the campers and not the landowner should still be the ones responsible for keeping fires under control and knowing about fire bans. Landowners should only share responsibility (share, not be exclusively responsible) for ensuring public safety if they have accepted payment or other consideration for the use of their land, or if the land is both unmarked / open (no fences or signage indicating that it is private property) and contains significant unmarked artificial hazards. Things that might normally be found in a natural area shouldn't count as unmarked hazards. Giving hunters permission to hunt on your land shouldn't count as accepting payment (unless you actually made them pay).

    As for trespassing to get to the river, that seems to indicate a problem with lack of public access to public property. Shouldn't every grid road allowance that intersects the river be a public access?
    Last edited by Titanium48; 21-02-2018 at 02:51 PM.

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