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Thread: All encompassing shootings thread and gun control in the USA

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    No American citizen should be allowed to carry a firearm into Canada for any purpose. ANY.
    I completely agree.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yes, when used properly, guns kill.
    Actually, when used properly they DON'T kill. I have used guns properly without ever harming anything, nor anybody.

  3. #103

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    Waiting for someone to tell them that now is not the time to talk about gun control.

    Parkland shooting survivors claim ‘blood of 17’ is on GOP’s NRA enablers: ‘They left us to people like Nikolas Cruz’

    “Wednesday’s high school shooting has renewed the national conversation about gun control,” Blackwell began. “Now the president says he’s working with Congress on many fronts on this issue. In the meantime, some students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School say they feel abandoned and have a message for D.C.. You said that the governor and Senator Rubio murdered 17 people — why?”


    “It’s Rick Scott and Marco Rubio who allowed this to happen,” student Cameron Kasky explained. “They are enablers, and the blood of 17 people and all those injured and all the families that have been hurt, this is all on them. They have us thinking that this is inevitable, and that we can’t do anything to stop it, that it’s too difficult. We’re done with that. The GOP has abandoned us and left us to people like Nikolas Cruz.”

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/par...-nikolas-cruz/

  4. #104

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    If the truth doesn't fit your narrative, just lie about it on Fox.

    Fox News guest tells blatant lie about gun show loophole, host makes no attempt to correct him


    Another guest on the show, former Missouri state Representative Don Calloway (D), urged action to prevent future mass shootings and accurately noted that “We have gun show loopholes throughout this country.”


    “That is not true,” Schlapp responded.


    Calloway answered, “That is absolutely true. You can go into any gun show in many states in this country, 30 states and buy a gun without a significant background check.”


    “That is not true,” Schlapp repeated. “That’s not accurate.”

    https://thinkprogress.org/matt-schla...-ed3d8dd5623c/

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Waiting for someone to tell them that now is not the time to talk about gun control.

    Parkland shooting survivors claim ‘blood of 17’ is on GOP’s NRA enablers: ‘They left us to people like Nikolas Cruz’

    “Wednesday’s high school shooting has renewed the national conversation about gun control,” Blackwell began. “Now the president says he’s working with Congress on many fronts on this issue. In the meantime, some students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School say they feel abandoned and have a message for D.C.. You said that the governor and Senator Rubio murdered 17 people — why?”


    “It’s Rick Scott and Marco Rubio who allowed this to happen,” student Cameron Kasky explained. “They are enablers, and the blood of 17 people and all those injured and all the families that have been hurt, this is all on them. They have us thinking that this is inevitable, and that we can’t do anything to stop it, that it’s too difficult. We’re done with that. The GOP has abandoned us and left us to people like Nikolas Cruz.”

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/par...-nikolas-cruz/
    I got you fam. Ask and ye shall recieve.

    https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/pr...rkland-florida

    On January 5, 2018, a person close to Nikolas Cruz contacted the FBI’s Public Access Line (PAL) tipline to report concerns about him. The caller provided information about Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting.
    This seems to have been a colossal failure on the part of the FBI. Back in the fall, Nikolas Cruz posted a comment non youtube:

    WASHINGTON — Last fall, a bail bondsman in Mississippi spotted a disturbing comment on his YouTube channel.

    “Im going to be a professional school shooter,” it read. There was nothing more.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/u...mment-fbi.html

    The FBI had been warned about this individual, and they had the power to stop Cruz. But ultimately, that's not what happened, and 17 people died because the FBI dropped the ball.

    Gun control isn't going to stop school shootings. The guns are still going to find their way onto the black market, and you'd end up with armed criminals, and citizens who can't protect themselves.

    An analysis of mass shootings in the United States since the year 2002 shows that gun wielding mass killers are more likely to strike where the Second Amendment right to bear arms has been supplanted by “gun-free zone” ordinances; be they federal, local, or specified by the owner of the property.
    https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/p...gun-free-zones

    The only thing that's going to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Waiting for someone to tell them that now is not the time to talk about gun control.

    Parkland shooting survivors claim ‘blood of 17’ is on GOP’s NRA enablers: ‘They left us to people like Nikolas Cruz’

    “Wednesday’s high school shooting has renewed the national conversation about gun control,” Blackwell began. “Now the president says he’s working with Congress on many fronts on this issue. In the meantime, some students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School say they feel abandoned and have a message for D.C.. You said that the governor and Senator Rubio murdered 17 people — why?”


    “It’s Rick Scott and Marco Rubio who allowed this to happen,” student Cameron Kasky explained. “They are enablers, and the blood of 17 people and all those injured and all the families that have been hurt, this is all on them. They have us thinking that this is inevitable, and that we can’t do anything to stop it, that it’s too difficult. We’re done with that. The GOP has abandoned us and left us to people like Nikolas Cruz.”

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/par...-nikolas-cruz/
    I also see the hypocrisy.

    First off, blaming this on a mental health issue is a fallacy.

    If mental health is the hypothetical basis for the violent crime in the United States, then we have to question:


    Do Americans have a rate of 535% higher mentally disturbed people than Canada? Or because they have 328% more guns?

    Do Americans have a rate of 1,133% higher mentally disturbed people than Australia? Or because they have 466% more guns?

    Do Americans have a rate of 13,175% higher mentally disturbed people than South Korea? Or because they have 9,186% more guns?

    It is easily demonstrated that it is not a mental health issue, it is a gun issue.

    It is true that guns don't kill people. Guns can sit on a shelf forever and never kill anyone. It is proven that greater access to guns results in more deaths. Gun control and limiting access reduces murders and suicides. Reducing access to guns and effective gun control reduces the murder rate and mass shootings.





    Some people are demanding that the FBI Director should resign because his department failed to act properly when there were threat reports of the shooter's history.

    It can be argued that the Director was not aware of the individual case threat occurring many levels below him. We all understand that there are thousands of tips like this that the FBI deal with every week.

    Meanwhile you have members of Congress who knowingly and actively prevented bills to even be considered, that would close loopholes, limit access to semi-automatic AR-15 type weapons and other gun control measures that demonstrably reduce mass shootings, murders and suicides. These facts are well known and Congress and the President are complicit with the NRA, gun lobbyists and gun manufacturers. 93 people die every day in the US and many more are injured and families affected.

    So when are members of Congress going to resign for their failure to act properly when they ignored and conspired against the public interest and to keep Americans safe? They all have blood on their hands for allowing this to happen.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 17-02-2018 at 10:03 AM.
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  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. On December 15, 1791, the Bill of Rights (the first ten amendments to the Constitution) was adopted, having been ratified by three-fourths of the states.

    Second Amendment of the U S A

    I cannot see it being changed to 'the privilege of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed'. There would be an uprising.
    Sorry, yeah I'm aware that it's a right in the US, which is what makes gun control so problematic. If it's a right there's very few ways to justifiably infringe on that right.

    IMO that part of the constitution is locked in another time and doesn't make sense anymore. The purpose is so they can rise up against the government if needed, which made sense when the most powerful weapons were muskets and cannons. But now there's drones, fighters, tanks, missiles, nukes. The whole population armed with rifles isn't gonna do **** against any part of the US army.
    Another thing about guns in the states is that there are millions of people who own them that are sensible owners. They own guns but keep them locked up. It's the crazy ones that get all the publicity for doing the awful things they do. The U S A amendment on gun laws is out of step with the times but it's so entrenched it's almost like second nature. Some societies who do not have the right to bear arms seem to function fine without this amendment. Canada does and lots of European countries. The sates just has not got the memo on that yet. Even if they do have stricter gun laws people who are hell bend on causing mayhem will just find another way. Unfortunately the internet is a wealth of information on how to make all kinds of bombs etc. Restrict access to guns and it still could be carnage of a different kind.
    So are you suggesting that NOTHING can be done except 'hopes and prayers'

    Maybe Congress and the President should follow what the People want.



    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 17-02-2018 at 09:55 AM.
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  8. #108
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    If they banned every gun in the country they would start making homemade bombs like they do on other continents. They kill even more people.

  9. #109

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    You have no proof of your hypothesis and it is just designed to cloud the issue in order to rationalize maintaining the status quo.

    Are they making more bombs in Canada, Australia or South Korea?

    Making bombs and accessing bomb making materials are far more difficult than going to a gun show and buying a gun with no restrictions in many States.
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  10. #110
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    I'm against the assault military style automatic weapons but Barack Obama allowed the moratorium on them to expire and chose not to renew it for the remainder of his term which has caused a large inventory build up. It will now be up to the Donald to bring it back. With the pressure building to bring it back I think he will do it. They're likely looking into it now. It would be an excellent political move.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 17-02-2018 at 11:55 AM.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrowAway View Post


    The only thing that's going to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.
    There was a "good guy with a gun at the school. He never even saw the shooter. So I assume your solution is even more "good guys with guns"? How many would you suggest? How should they be armed? How many rounds should each carry? Who's going to pay for it? The school board? The police department? The federal government? The state?

    Seriously, this line of argument is like dealing with a serial arsonist and claiming that the solution is simply to hire more firemen.


    Armed security guard at Florida school never encountered gunman during deadly rampage

    Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel confirmed that accused mass murderer Nikolas Cruz managed to shoot up the Parkland high school without ever encountering the school resource deputy.


    “He was on campus and he was armed,” Israel said. “At this point, the only thing I can tell you definitively is he never encountered Cruz.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.3822777

  12. #112
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    Maybe he was hiding in a storage closet.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I'm against the assault military style automatic weapons but Barack Obama allowed the moratorium on them to expire and chose not to renew it for the remainder of his term which has caused a large inventory build up. It will now be up to the Donald to bring it back. With the pressure building to bring it back I think he will do it. They're likely looking into it now. It would be an excellent political move.
    Wow, Obama allowed the assault weapon ban to expire a full five years before he was sworn in. Did then President G. W. Bush know about Obama usurping his power? How could a state senator from Illinois allow a federal bill to expire and not renew it?

    BTW, it was a bill that had a 10 year "sunset clause" Congress would have needed to pass legislation to extend that. The president doesn't have the ability to do so on his own.

    Federal Assault Weapons Ban

    The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB)—officially, the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act—is a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law that included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms it defined as assault weapons, as well as certain ammunition magazines it defined as "large capacity".

    The ten-year ban was passed by the U.S. Congress on September 13, 1994, following a close 52–48 vote in the Senate, and signed into law by then President Bill Clinton the same day. The ban only applied to weapons manufactured after the date of the ban's enactment, and it expired on September 13, 2004, in accordance with its sunset provision.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...lt_Weapons_Ban

  14. #114
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    Regardless of the gun laws, which would not stop shooters from acquiring illegal weapons, they may need to start having more security, like airports. A fence around, security cameras with a staff keeping track and metal detectors at entrances. Sad but true.

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  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Regardless of the gun laws, which would not stop shooters from acquiring illegal weapons, they may need to start having more security, like airports. A fence around, security cameras with a staff keeping track and metal detectors at entrances. Sad but true.
    So you want to send children to prison every day? Great idea.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I'm against the assault military style automatic weapons but Barack Obama allowed the moratorium on them to expire and chose not to renew it for the remainder of his term which has caused a large inventory build up. It will now be up to the Donald to bring it back. With the pressure building to bring it back I think he will do it. They're likely looking into it now. It would be an excellent political move.
    Wow, Obama allowed the assault weapon ban to expire a full five years before he was sworn in. Did then President G. W. Bush know about Obama usurping his power? How could a state senator from Illinois allow a federal bill to expire and not renew it?

    BTW, it was a bill that had a 10 year "sunset clause" Congress would have needed to pass legislation to extend that. The president doesn't have the ability to do so on his own.

    Federal Assault Weapons Ban

    The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB)—officially, the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act—is a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law that included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms it defined as assault weapons, as well as certain ammunition magazines it defined as "large capacity".

    The ten-year ban was passed by the U.S. Congress on September 13, 1994, following a close 52–48 vote in the Senate, and signed into law by then President Bill Clinton the same day. The ban only applied to weapons manufactured after the date of the ban's enactment, and it expired on September 13, 2004, in accordance with its sunset provision.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...lt_Weapons_Ban
    I stand corrected. I wonder why the dems did not bring in another during their eight years in power.

  18. #118

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    Because the Dems only had the house and senate for two of those years and there were members of tier party that wouldn't support it and the Republicans had pledged to block any and all attempts at gun control. None of the republicans would have voted for it. It was a losing game and they knew it.

    The Republicans are opposed to gun control laws of any sort and the NRA targets Democrats who advocate for even common sense laws and claim that the Democrats want to take away all guns. Add the so called "Blue Dog" democrats who are from the more conservative wing of the party and it's unlikely that there will be any chance to pass any sort of gun control. If Columbine and Sandy Hook and now Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, along with all the others, weren't enough I'd say that nothing will. It'll be thoughts and prayers and more dead children. It is apparently Americans are willing to pay.

    Off-Target
    BY ALEXANDER C. HART
    February 3, 2011
    Why did Democrats give up on gun control?

    In 2004, the federal assault weapons ban expired. A year later, Congress gave gun manufacturers and dealers near-total immunity from lawsuits by victims of gun crime. To a certain extent, this is isn’t surprising: Republicans controlled the House, the Senate, and the White House. But the situation didn’t improve after the Democrats won Congress in 2006 and the White House in 2008. During Nancy Pelosi’s tenure as speaker, no bill to extend the assault weapons ban got a vote on the House floor. Pelosi did, however, find time to pass an NRA-backed bill protecting the guns of bankrupt individuals from seizure. (It died in the Senate.)


    Under Majority Leader Harry Reid, a long-time opponent of gun control, the Senate also let the un-renewed assault weapons ban lie dormant. And Reid joined 21 other Democrats and almost all Senate Republicans in attaching an amendment to a District of Columbia voting rights bill that would have eviscerated the District’s gun laws had it passed.Congress did manage to pass a bill improving the thoroughness of pre-gun-purchase background checks in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings. But that legislation hardly qualifies as an accomplishment—even the NRA endorsed it.


    Barack Obama’s election was supposed to be a turning point, but, at the halfway mark of his presidency, he has shown little to justify the NRA’s alarmist warnings. In fact, gun control activists are largely unhappy with his record so far. After his first year in office, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence released a report called “Failed Leadership, Lost Lives” and gave the president an “F” in every category. Obama promised to reinstate the assault weapons ban during his campaign, and as of mid-January, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said the president still supports such measures. But, after two years with majorities in both chambers and no progress, it’s hard to take him seriously. It’s worth remembering that this discussion centers on what was, as recently as 2004, already law. Democrats have made zero progress in actually advancing new, common-sense gun control.


    The issue is now so far off the radar that an exasperated Representative Mike Quigley complained to The Hill in August 2010 that he “couldn’t even get a hearing” to consider it. “I’m not blaming the Republicans. I’m blaming [Democratic] leadership and the administration,” he said. “They’re in charge. … It’s a question of priorities.” And for most Democrats, the priority is avoiding the NRA’s ire. The NRA’s powers may be overrated; but the fear they instill is real.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/8242...obama-congress

  19. #119
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    Maybe this will be the last school shooting (ya sure). Stronger security measures now, gun legislation long term. Hopefully during Trumps tenure.

  20. #120
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    growing calls for k-12 school boycotts on april 20 (the anniversary of the 1999 columbine shooting/massacre).

    https://www.facebook.com/search/str/...eywords_search

    some of them are intended to be for the day, others are calling for them to last until something is done, effectively telling congress if they won't do what's necessary not to put our lives at risk, then we aren't going to put our lives at risk either. if doing the right thing hasn't worked, maybe - hopefully - shame will.
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    Eventually, politicians are going to have to know what the public say about these guns , these awful shootings, and although it is mostly republicans, some democrats need to come cleans as well!

  22. #122

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    If Trump states that it is a mental health issue, then why does the Trump administration's 2018 federal budget include a 26% cut to community health services?
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    As satirical as this cartoon might he NRA is really an extension of the gun industry and fear works in their favor as it helps to promote gun ownership, they're not really concerned about violence other than as a useful tool. Ironically, with Trump in the White House gun sales are down compared to when Obama was in office.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Regardless of the gun laws, which would not stop shooters from acquiring illegal weapons, they may need to start having more security, like airports. A fence around, security cameras with a staff keeping track and metal detectors at entrances. Sad but true.
    OK, let's follow your reasoning.

    Although the high school already had security features, a single access point and an armed officer. The tragedy still happened. Even if you had two or four armed guards at the entrance, the shooter had far more firepower than they would if they are armed with handguns. So do we put 10 officers in every school, armed with machine guns? Do we build a wall and barb wire around the entire school yard sport fields and the school? You would have to hire a million security guards to have a high level of protection.

    Do you want this for your child's school?


    CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland schools safety chief Lester Fultz has to slash 15 percent from his $11 million personnel budget by Dec. 1.

    That could mean laying off nearly 40 of 250 officers, most of whom are security guards assigned to the schools. The 43,000-student district also has 23 patrol officers, sworn in as county deputy sheriffs, who watch neighborhoods as students arrive and leave for the day and work in buildings in between.


    The reductions follow the loss of 18 to 20 Cleveland police, who were withdrawn from the schools in May after federal money to pay them ran out. The pending district cuts could be softened by concessions sought from employees. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011...sses_scho.html


    Is this what you envision for a "safe" school?



    Just to give you an idea of the already significant level of security in US public schools

    Percentage of public schools that used selected safety and security measures, by school level: School year 2013–14 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=334

    Ok, now you protected your kid's school.

    What about when your kid goes to the the mall food court next door. Do you have to have high security there too? How about at the local McDonalds or Walmart? The shooter in Florida went there too. How about at the swimming pool, does your kid have to wear a bulletproof vest? Armed guards at your kid's Sunday school? Where does it end?

    Maybe we should look at the ease of access to automatic rifles and handguns that allow a shooter to fire 150 rounds in classrooms and kill 17 people in less than 5 minutes.

    ya think?
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  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    As satirical as this cartoon might he NRA is really an extension of the gun industry and fear works in their favor as it helps to promote gun ownership, they're not really concerned about violence other than as a useful tool. Ironically, with Trump in the White House gun sales are down compared to when Obama was in office.
    Of course sales are down. Nothing spurs sales faster than claiming that someone is going to take your guns away. Although mass shootings usually cause a spike in sales too. The Republicans can hardly claim that Trump is going to take all their guns like they said that Obama and Clinton were going to.

    Donald Trump: 'Second Amendment' gun advocates could deal with Hillary Clinton

    "Hillary wants to abolish -- essentially abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, if she gets to pick, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know," Trump said.

    https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/09/polit...ent/index.html

  26. #126

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    An interesting perspective from a former military member.

    Posted on February 15, 2018
    “**** you, I like guns.

    With this in mind, is anybody surprised that nearly every mass shooter in recent US history has used an AR-15 to commit their crime? And why wouldn’t they? High capacity magazine, ease of loading and unloading, almost no recoil, really accurate even without a scope, but numerous scopes available for high precision, great from a distance or up close, easy to carry, and readily available. You can buy one at Wal-Mart, or just about any sports store, and since they’re long guns, I don’t believe you have to be any more than 18 years old with a valid ID. This rifle was made for the modern mass shooter, especially the young one. If he could custom design a weapon to suit his sinister purposes, he couldn’t do a better job than Armalite did with this one already.

    ---

    Let’s be honest. You just want a cool toy, and for the vast majority of people, that’s all an AR-15 is. It’s something fun to take to the range and put some really wicked holes in a piece of paper. Good for you. I know how enjoyable that is. I’m sure for a certain percentage of people, they might not kill anyone driving a Formula One car down the freeway, or owning a Cheetah as a pet, or setting off professional grade fireworks without a permit. Some people are good with this stuff, and some people are lucky, but those cases don’t negate the overall rule. Military style rifles have been the choice du jour in the incidents that have made our country the mass shootings capitol of the world. Formula One cars aren’t good for commuting. Cheetahs are bitey. Professional grade fireworks will probably take your hand off. All but one of these are common sense to the average American. Let’s fix that. Be honest, you don’t need that AR-15. Nobody does. Society needs them gone, no matter how good you may be with yours. Kids are dying, and it’s time to stop ******* around.

    https://agingmillennialengineer.word...i-like-guns-2/

  27. #127

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    ^ that must be a fake post from a Russian operative that is designed to control guns and take every single gun away from the population so that Russia can invade the US unopposed.
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  28. #128

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    Trump resorts to more lies to attack Democrats. Blames Dems for not acting on gun control

    He ignores the facts that the Republicans constantly derail any gun control bills

    'They just talk!' Trump blames Democrats for not acting on gun control earlier
    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...hooting-2018-2
    President Donald Trump on Saturday laid the blame on Democrats for the lack of congressional action on gun control, an issue that once again rose to the forefront of public discourse after Wednesday's mass shooting in Florida.

    "Just like they don't want to solve the DACA problem, why didn't the Democrats pass gun control legislation when they had both the House & Senate during the Obama Administration," Trump said on Twitter. "Because they didn't want to, and now they just talk!"


    His comments came just hours after hundreds of activists and shooting survivors rallied in Fort Lauderdale against lax gun-control regulations, the National Rifle Association, and Trump himself.


    A gunman killed 17 people earlier in the week after opening fire on students and staff at his former high school using a legally purchased AR-15 rifle.
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  29. #129

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    The Republicans have had control of the house and senate for the last 7 years. They are responsible for introducing legislation. If they're so outraged, where is their bill? They don't have a bill, just a receipt from the NRA.

  30. #130

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    You'd think that she'd hold off airing this ad. Or sending out this mailer. Or that she just doesn't care.
    Congressional candidate for Houston endures backlash for untimely gun ad

    Kathleen Wall, who is vying for the seat of retiring GOP Rep. Ted Poe, released an ad this week depicting her firing a rifle, which was reportedly first seen within 24 hours of the devastating school shooting in Parkland, Florida.

    ---

    Wall also received attention due to a mailer that some residents received late this week:



    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/con...timely-gun-ad/

  31. #131

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    Maybe the assault rifle toting Kathleen Wall should add some images to her poster, of her setting her gun sights on an abortion doctor and images of police rounding up protestors.

    The poster reminds me of a typical War Propaganda Poster

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  32. #132

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    17 kids get shot to death and the usuals just make it into another Trump/Hilary/Obama bs thread that has next to nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread.

    Like we don't already have enough threads here talking about Trump?

    Like him or hate him Trump is no more responsible for the state of Gun Control in the USNRA than any of the presidents that came before him. Could the thread maybe be actually about the current tragedy. There have been countless other threads here on C2E talking exclusively about Gun control.

    Student David Hogg is just amazing. The maturity, vision, and forthright nature and confidence of this kid. Its going to take nothing less than that type of integrity to bring any change.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida...ogg-speak-out/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8213241.html
    Last edited by Replacement; 18-02-2018 at 10:35 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  33. #133

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    Well, seeing as some of the surviving students are calling out politicians by name and the fact that the second executive order the current president signed was ending the band on gun ownership by certain people with mental illness (people deemed unfit to handle their own affairs in regards to social security, etc), I'd saty that politics in directly tied to gun violence.

    There's more than enough blame on both sides to go around but one party gets the lions share of NRA funding and the other party is most responsible for introducing gun control legislation.

    To think that you can have a conversation about gun control without involving politics is simply being naive or trying to protect certain politicians from criticism.

  34. #134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Well, seeing as some of the surviving students are calling out politicians by name and the fact that the second executive order the current president signed was ending the band on gun ownership by certain people with mental illness (people deemed unfit to handle their own affairs in regards to social security, etc), I'd saty that politics in directly tied to gun violence.

    There's more than enough blame on both sides to go around but one party gets the lions share of NRA funding and the other party is most responsible for introducing gun control legislation.

    To think that you can have a conversation about gun control without involving politics is simply being naive or trying to protect certain politicians from criticism.
    The most powerful messages the students have evoked is talking about politicians in general. That everytime a politician lies or does nothing about gun control that students get killed. period. Thus what I linked above. David Hogg wasn't eloquent, but his message was heartfelt, honest and right to the point. That message has to be on every front page, every media and has to be there nonstop until change occurs. The message resonates because it is right, it is what should occur. Any political obfuscation is self serving politics while kids get shot. I refuse to service that by giving the political cretins even much of a mention. Change takes place on a grass roots ground level. Honest change. Politicians are rarely involved in that. Usually they are opposing it.

    By no means would I wish to protect any of the politicians. Just that its the same deplorable brand of double dipping US politics that you would commonly get. With cretins like Rubio opposing gun control. While receiving NRA backing. He has no legitimacy to even be discussing gun control.

    One has to get beyond the powerful lobbyist control to even have any chance of change. I really think the focus has to be kids coming forward, for students benefit everywhere and those kids, and not people like Rubio getting the airplay. More talk about blowhards like Trump or Clinton just in my view takes the focus off the ground zero feelings, comments, discussion which deserves far more airplay. The US politicians are just doing what they always have. Politicking, for their own vested interests and not the students interests or American publics interests.

    I am naïve though, I believe in real change, real democracy, none of which we are getting on either side of the border.
    Last edited by Replacement; 18-02-2018 at 11:07 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  35. #135

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    N R A should be banned from making political donations to all parties and their candidates. Over the years the N R A has given millions to U S politicians. These same politicians then turn around and tweet and mouth platitudes when there are mass shootings.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  36. #136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    N R A should be banned from making political donations to all parties and their candidates. Over the years the N R A has given millions to U S politicians. These same politicians then turn around and tweet and mouth platitudes when there are mass shootings.
    Agreed, but Rubio will find some lobbyists to pay him. He's yet another signpost of unending US politico corruption. I wouldn't trust this guy to sell me a car.

    I try to pay less attention to US politics knowing the sham shellgame that it is. Representation is paid for. Not democratic. Theres few actual democrats of any stripe around Washington.

    People should pay attention to what the citizens state, not the political blowhards. The children that were ground zero in this disaster deserve to have the voice on gun control. They now have more instruction on why gun control is required.

    The children impacted, and their families, and that discourse, that's what deserves to be the focus of this thread imo.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/18/us/fl...tes/index.html

    Student statement'

    "Its a badge of shame for any politician to be accepting money from the NRA while the politician uses dead students as collateral"

    powerful statement. These are the voices that deserve to be heard.
    Last edited by Replacement; 18-02-2018 at 11:44 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    N R A should be banned from making political donations to all parties and their candidates. Over the years the N R A has given millions to U S politicians. These same politicians then turn around and tweet and mouth platitudes when there are mass shootings.
    I think all corporations, organizations and superpacs should be banned from lobbying and funding elections. Period.
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  38. #138

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    N.R.A. should be treat like the KKK, with contempt. Make it a stigma to be associated with them. Take away it's influence by slowly eroding it's power.
    Having said that, it will take generations to do.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  39. #139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    17 kids get shot to death and the usuals just make it into another Trump/Hilary/Obama bs thread that has next to nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread.

    Like we don't already have enough threads here talking about Trump?

    Like him or hate him Trump is no more responsible for the state of Gun Control in the USNRA than any of the presidents that came before him. Could the thread maybe be actually about the current tragedy. There have been countless other threads here on C2E talking exclusively about Gun control.

    Student David Hogg is just amazing. The maturity, vision, and forthright nature and confidence of this kid. Its going to take nothing less than that type of integrity to bring any change.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida...ogg-speak-out/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8213241.html
    It’s necessary to bring up the political angle because only through pressure will some ground eventually be given up in terms of lessening the constitution rights of the two+ classes of people involved, but it’s also too bad that people don’t try to think beyond politican-blaming because there just hasn’t been the long term sustainable political or citizen will to make some change and stick with it, so such discussions could be less circular and more productive if they moved on to seeking out other non-constitutional solutions.
    Last edited by KC; 18-02-2018 at 12:01 PM.

  40. #140

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    Here's a Republican putting his money and his job where his mouth is.

    ‘End of the road for me’: Ex-RNC finance chair refusing to donate to GOP unless it does something about assault weapons

    Republican former Ambassador Al Hoffman, Jr issued a bold ultimatum to his party, demanding action on gun control before he will give another dime, The New York Times reported Saturday.


    “For how many years now have we been doing this — having these experiences of terrorism, mass killings — and how many years has it been that nothing’s been done?” Ambassador Hoffman told The Times. “It’s the end of the road for me.”


    Prior to the senate confirmation, Hoffman served as the finance chair of the Republican National Committee.


    “I will not write another check unless they all support a ban on assault weapons,” he promised. “Enough is enough!”

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/end...mq0_k.facebook
    Quite a breath of fresh air as compared to others that won't even mention the word gun, instead defaulting to "mental illness". Funny how that get trotted out immediately when the perpetrator is white. If they're Muslim, Ban them. If they're Hispanic, build a wall. If they're black, prisons and law and order. If they're white, Thoughts and prayers and mental illness.

  41. #141
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  42. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    17 kids get shot to death and the usuals just make it into another Trump/Hilary/Obama bs thread that has next to nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread.

    Like we don't already have enough threads here talking about Trump?

    Like him or hate him Trump is no more responsible for the state of Gun Control in the USNRA than any of the presidents that came before him. Could the thread maybe be actually about the current tragedy. There have been countless other threads here on C2E talking exclusively about Gun control.

    Student David Hogg is just amazing. The maturity, vision, and forthright nature and confidence of this kid. Its going to take nothing less than that type of integrity to bring any change.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida...ogg-speak-out/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8213241.html
    It’s necessary to bring up the political angle because only through pressure will some ground eventually be given up in terms of lessening the constitution rights of the two+ classes of people involved, but it’s also too bad that people don’t try to think beyond politican-blaming because there just hasn’t been the long term sustainable political or citizen will to make some change and stick with it, so such discussions could be less circular and more productive if they moved on to seeking out other non-constitutional solutions.
    I'm just saying that there are severable remarkable, strong student voices emanating from the school, from ground zero, that are making an impassioned plea that is more honest, and of more merit, and more credible than any politician I have heard respond to this tragedy, or gun control in general.

    Again change will not come from Washington. It will come from Grassroots empowerment that demands change from Washington, only then, will that change occur.

    March 24th deserves to be the most important moment in US history in this millennium. Only US Citizens will decide if it is.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/flori...ry?id=53178265
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  43. #143

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    And from the "You have got to be ****ing kidding me!" file.
    Kids auctioning off AR-15 rifle following latest mass shooting
    A Missouri baseball team is following the lead of a Kansas congressional candidate.

    A third grade baseball team is the latest to raffle off an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle, just days after the very same weapon killed 17 people in one of the deadliest school shootings in U.S. history.

    The 9-and-under baseball team from Neosho, Missouri joins Kansas congressional candidate Tyler Tannahill in auctioning off the popular rifle that has been the weapon of choice of a number of mass murders in recent history. Levi Patterson, coach of the baseball squad full of youngsters, told the St. Louis Post- Dispatch the highly lethal weapon was donated by one of the elementary school-age players’ parents, who is also happens to be local weapons purveyor.

    https://thinkprogress.org/kids-aucti...-0d966734144d/

  44. #144

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    According to Rush, it's political to go after the NRA. And that's bad in his view..

    Rush Limbaugh attacks Parkland students for marching and ‘bashing’ NRA: ‘This is totally political’

    Limbaugh disputed the notion that the group of students from Parkland that Wallace had just interviewed are “taking politics out of this.”


    “The minute they bash the NRA, it’s politics,” the conservative talker asserted.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/rus...lly-political/

  45. #145

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    Apparently it's the fault of the Russia investigation. Who knew?

    ‘He’s scared out of his mind’: Ex-official nails Trump over blaming FBI for shooting to deflect from Russia probe

    Appearing on AM Joy, former FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence Frank Figliuzzi harshly criticized Donald Trump for attacking the FBI over the tragedy in Parkland, Florida, in an attempt to deflect attention away from Friday’s bombshell indictments of 13 Russians accused of meddling in the election that put Trump in the White House.

    During a panel discussion, Figliuzzi was asked about a Sunday morning tweet from the president which implied that the FBI “missed all of the many signals sent out by the Florida school shooter” because “[t]hey are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign.”

    “Frank, I’ll go to your reaction to the President of the United States blaming the FBI, in essence, for the massacre at Parkland,” host Joy Reid prompted.

    The former FBI official appeared furious at the suggestion.

    “Joy, let’s distill down what that late night tweet really says after some cheeseburger induced coma after 11:00PM last night,” Figliuzzi explained. “The president puts this squarely on FBI. Here’s what he’s telling parents of America, ‘hey, our gun violence problem would go away if the FBI would just leave me alone.’ That is what he’s saying.”

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/hes...ments-rattled/

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Here's a Republican putting his money and his job where his mouth is.

    ‘End of the road for me’: Ex-RNC finance chair refusing to donate to GOP unless it does something about assault weapons

    Republican former Ambassador Al Hoffman, Jr issued a bold ultimatum to his party, demanding action on gun control before he will give another dime, The New York Times reported Saturday.


    “For how many years now have we been doing this — having these experiences of terrorism, mass killings — and how many years has it been that nothing’s been done?” Ambassador Hoffman told The Times. “It’s the end of the road for me.”


    Prior to the senate confirmation, Hoffman served as the finance chair of the Republican National Committee.


    “I will not write another check unless they all support a ban on assault weapons,” he promised. “Enough is enough!”

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/end...mq0_k.facebook
    Quite a breath of fresh air as compared to others that won't even mention the word gun, instead defaulting to "mental illness". Funny how that get trotted out immediately when the perpetrator is white. If they're Muslim, Ban them. If they're Hispanic, build a wall. If they're black, prisons and law and order. If they're white, Thoughts and prayers and mental illness.
    I think the biggest take away from this is how easy legal bribery is in the US. I'm not complaining about this one because I happen to agree with him, but the exact same threats and 'encouragement' are the reason that gun laws are as loose as they are in the first place. You support lax regulation on guns and the NRA will fork over some cash to your 'campaign' as a thank you. It's kind of baffling, but I doubt it will change anytime soon.

  47. #147

    Default

    They put it down to "free speech". Money equals speech. Sorry, but people have speech. Organizations do not. They can take out a billboard to make their point but they should not be allowed to contribute to candidates. One of the best things Notley has done is banned contributions from businesses and unions.

  48. #148

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    The time has come. We will no longer wait for someone else to take action to stop the epidemic of mass school shootings that has become l too familiar. On March 24, we will take the streets of Washington DC and our communities across the country because our lives actually depend on it. Join us. #marchforourlives


  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    If they banned every gun in the country they would start making homemade bombs like they do on other continents.
    Or throwing grenades at people, like they do in Sweden.

  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    If they banned every gun in the country they would start making homemade bombs like they do on other continents.
    Or throwing grenades at people, like they do in Sweden.
    You continuine with a failed argument based upon a fallacy.
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  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    If they banned every gun in the country they would start making homemade bombs like they do on other continents.
    Or throwing grenades at people, like they do in Sweden.
    there are about 33 times more people living in the us than sweden.

    more than 33,000 people die in the us from guns every year.

    if grenades really were a default for guns, then more than 1,000 people every year would be killed by grenades in sweden.

    is that what you would have us believe is going on in sweden?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  52. #152

    Default

    According to some people, they want you to believe that you can buy grenades in Sweden at the local Bomb-R-Us store.

    Meanwhile in the Good Old USA from the "You have got to be ****ing kidding me!" file.

    source

    GUNS R US is now open in the Winco shopping center In Medford OR we have a couple hundred 30 round magazines and about 8 AR-15's and 2 AR-10's
    You can give us a call at ***-**** or you can just drop by our shop at 259 e Barnett rd suite j Medford OR 97501
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  53. #153

    Default

    Are there cracks forming in the GOP over gun control? Expect NRA attack ads to go after Kasich.

    A Republican Governor Just Called for a Ban on Assault Weapons
    “Would you feel as though your Second Amendment rights would be eroded because you couldn’t buy a God-darned AR-15?”

    “I think the Congress is totally dysfunctional,” Kasich said. “I’ve never seen anything like it…They just can’t seem to get anything done.” Kasich also faulted Congress for inaction on immigration and for blowing “a hole in the deficit,” saying lawmakers only come together to “take money out of our kids’ piggy banks.” But Kasich, a former Fox News host and member of Congress, saved his strongest rhetoric for the gun issue. He suggested he would favor expanding background check laws to cover private gun sales; banning so-called bump stocks that make semi-automatic weapons fire bullets faster; and outlawing assault weapons like the AR-15 that was reportedly used in the Florida massacre.


    “Common sense guns laws make sense,” Kasich said.


    The statements actually mark Kasich’s second major shift on guns. As a member of the House, Kasich drew the NRA’s ire after he voted in 1994 for an assault weapons ban. (That ban expired in 2004. Amid strong GOP opposition, Democrats have made modest, unsuccessful, efforts to renew it.) But as Ohio’s governor, Kasich signed pro-gun bills, such as a measure allowing concealed handguns in bars, earning him NRA backing for his reelection bid in 2014.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...sault-weapons/

  54. #154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    If they banned every gun in the country they would start making homemade bombs like they do on other continents.
    Or throwing grenades at people, like they do in Sweden.
    there are about 33 times more people living in the us than sweden.

    more than 33,000 people die in the us from guns every year.

    if grenades really were a default for guns, then more than 1,000 people every year would be killed by grenades in sweden.

    is that what you would have us believe is going on in sweden?
    Not quite, but give it a few years and it'll get there. It's really starting to get bad in Sweden.

    https://qz.com/886244/open-borders-a...ave-in-sweden/

    52 grenade attack in Sweden in 2016, and the number is rising.

    https://translate.google.com/transla...i-stockholm%2F

    "The police have found a rocket launcher loaded with explosives tucked away in a wooded area in northern Stockholm. The find was made on Friday night - and the police are confiscated.
    "It's really a military weapon used to launch vehicles," said Emir Gazibegovic, inspector at Stockholm Police to DN."

  55. #155

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    They aren't just marching. They're getting ready to vote.


  56. #156

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    And so it goes...

    "But we need our guns to protect our families"

    Four people shot, including 6-year-old, at Texas Roadhouse in San Antonio

    McManus says all four victims are related and the adults are in their 20s.

    According to police, the shooting occurred 8:40 p.m. Sunday as the group waited outside the Texas Roadhouse, near Ingram Park Mall.

    McManus said, "We do not believe that this shooting was random."

    CBS San Antonio affiliate KENS-TV reports investigators think it was a family violence situation.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-r...es-2018-02-18/

  57. #157

    Default

    Not directly related to the shooting but this gives you an idea of the NRA mindset.

    NRA Goes Quiet on Twitter, Just Like After Previous Mass Shootings

    The NRA main account still hasn’t tweeted but I did just notice that the NRA-TV account’s pinned tweet is from February 14th, the day of the shooting. It’s an ad for NRA spokesperson Dana Loesch’s new YouTube show. And it’s aggressive to say the least.

    From the ad:


    We’ve had enough of the lies, the sanctimony, the arrogance, the hatred, the pettiness, the fake news… we are done with your agenda to undermine voters’ will and individual liberty in America. So to every lying member of the media, to every Hollywood phony, to the role model athletes who use their free speech to alter and undermine what our flag represents, to the politicians who would rather watch America burn than lose one ounce of their own personal power, to the late-night hosts who think their opinions are the only opinions that matter… to the Joy-Ann Reids, the Morning Joes, the Mikas… To those who stain honest reporting with partisanship… To those who bring bias and propaganda to CNN, the Washington Post and the New York Times. Listen up! Your Time is running out… The clock starts now.
    https://gizmodo.com/nra-goes-quiet-o...hoo-1823129163

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThrowAway View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    If they banned every gun in the country they would start making homemade bombs like they do on other continents.
    Or throwing grenades at people, like they do in Sweden.
    there are about 33 times more people living in the us than sweden.

    more than 33,000 people die in the us from guns every year.

    if grenades really were a default for guns, then more than 1,000 people every year would be killed by grenades in sweden.

    is that what you would have us believe is going on in sweden?
    Not quite, but give it a few years and it'll get there. It's really starting to get bad in Sweden.

    https://qz.com/886244/open-borders-a...ave-in-sweden/

    52 grenade attack in Sweden in 2016, and the number is rising.

    https://translate.google.com/transla...i-stockholm%2F

    "The police have found a rocket launcher loaded with explosives tucked away in a wooded area in northern Stockholm. The find was made on Friday night - and the police are confiscated.
    "It's really a military weapon used to launch vehicles," said Emir Gazibegovic, inspector at Stockholm Police to DN."
    from your own link:

    though the attacks appear random, authorities believe many to be linked with organized crime. “In most cases, either the suspect or the victim is associated with a criminal network,” Gerell says. He suggests the hand grenades are mainly used for intimidation, since many have been thrown into empty cars and buildings. The attack that killed Warsame was linked to an underworld feud.

    it’s not the general public insisting they have a constitutional right to own grenades that is the problem in sweden. sweden has no national grenade association and you can’t open carry a grenade to a school or a bar and you can’t buy grenades at your local ikea or walmart store.
    Last edited by kcantor; 19-02-2018 at 12:01 PM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  59. #159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrowAway View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    If they banned every gun in the country they would start making homemade bombs like they do on other continents.
    Or throwing grenades at people, like they do in Sweden.
    there are about 33 times more people living in the us than sweden.

    more than 33,000 people die in the us from guns every year.

    if grenades really were a default for guns, then more than 1,000 people every year would be killed by grenades in sweden.

    is that what you would have us believe is going on in sweden?
    Not quite, but give it a few years and it'll get there. It's really starting to get bad in Sweden.

    https://qz.com/886244/open-borders-a...ave-in-sweden/

    52 grenade attack in Sweden in 2016, and the number is rising.

    https://translate.google.com/transla...i-stockholm%2F

    "The police have found a rocket launcher loaded with explosives tucked away in a wooded area in northern Stockholm. The find was made on Friday night - and the police are confiscated.
    "It's really a military weapon used to launch vehicles," said Emir Gazibegovic, inspector at Stockholm Police to DN."
    frim your own link:

    Though the attacks appear random, authorities believe many to be linked with organized crime. “In most cases, either the suspect or the victim is associated with a criminal network,” Gerell says. He suggests the hand grenades are mainly used for intimidation, since many have been thrown into empty cars and buildings. The attack that killed Warsame was linked to an underworld feud.

    it’s not the general public insisting they have a constitutional right to own grenades
    that is the problem in sweden. sweden has no national grenade association and you can’t open carry a grenade to a school or a bar and you can’t buy grenades at your local ikea or walmart store.
    Below, justified a $7.1 billion response, but mass shootings spur what amount in expenditures?


    2001 anthrax attacks - Wikipedia
    Political effects Edit
    The anthrax attacks, as well as the September 11, 2001 attacks, have spurred significant increases in U.S. government funding for biological warfare research and preparedness. For example, biowarfare-related funding at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) increased by $1.5 billion in 2003. In 2004, Congress passed the Project Bioshield Act, which provides $5.6 billion over ten years for the purchase of new vaccines and drugs.[176] These vaccines included the monoclonal antibody Raxibacumab, which treats anthrax as well as an Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed, both of which are stockpiled by the US government.[177] ...”


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks
    Last edited by KC; 19-02-2018 at 09:44 AM.

  60. #160

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    They are tired of seeing their friends die because of money. And they know that not only will it take a change in attitude, it'll take a change in government. They are organizing a boycott of politician, from either party, that take money from the NRA.

    Meet the new leaders of the gun control movement
    "We have to be the adults in this situation because clearly people have failed us."

    "On Meet the Press, Corin said that before last week, she never imagined she would become a political activist.


    After Wednesday, however, the high school junior has become a student leader and is starting by organizing a trip to Tallahassee, Florida’s capital, with roughly 100 other students to speak with members of the state Senate, House of Representatives, and potentially Gov. Rick Scott (R).


    The group will travel more than 450 miles to talk to 10 state senators and representatives from both parties Wednesday.


    “We have to be the adults in this situation because clearly people have failed us in the government,” she said."

    https://thinkprogress.org/new-leader...-95d5173ccba7/

  61. #161

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    And to everyone that says "It's mental illness." (At least when the shooter is white.)

    The Myth That Mental Illness Causes Mass Shootings

    "A sick, demented man.” That was Donald Trump’s assessment of Stephen Paddock, who shot nearly 600 people, leaving 58 dead, during a concert in Las Vegas earlier this month. Echoing Trump’s rhetoric, House Speaker Paul Ryan said that “one of the things we’ve learned from these shootings is often underneath this is a diagnosis of mental illness.”

    Most Americans think that there is a strong link between mental illness and mass shooting, and shifting the national conversation to mental health reform carries the advantage of avoiding the more politically divisive gun-control debate. But what if Stephen Paddock had no diagnosable mental illness? And what if his mental state was the rule, not the exception?


    In the aftermath of a mass shooting, we naturally seek to understand the killer’s motives. Our first instinct is to assume that the killer must be mentally deranged somehow. He must be a sadist who takes pleasure in the suffering of innocents, or a psychopath who feels no empathy for his victims, or a schizophrenic haunted by paranoid delusions. How else could someone commit such an awful atrocity?"

    http://behavioralscientist.org/myth-...ampaign=buffer

  62. #162

  63. #163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Not directly related to the shooting but this gives you an idea of the NRA mindset.

    NRA Goes Quiet on Twitter, Just Like After Previous Mass Shootings

    The NRA main account still hasn’t tweeted but I did just notice that the NRA-TV account’s pinned tweet is from February 14th, the day of the shooting. It’s an ad for NRA spokesperson Dana Loesch’s new YouTube show. And it’s aggressive to say the least.

    From the ad:


    We’ve had enough of the lies, the sanctimony, the arrogance, the hatred, the pettiness, the fake news… we are done with your agenda to undermine voters’ will and individual liberty in America. So to every lying member of the media, to every Hollywood phony, to the role model athletes who use their free speech to alter and undermine what our flag represents, to the politicians who would rather watch America burn than lose one ounce of their own personal power, to the late-night hosts who think their opinions are the only opinions that matter… to the Joy-Ann Reids, the Morning Joes, the Mikas… To those who stain honest reporting with partisanship… To those who bring bias and propaganda to CNN, the Washington Post and the New York Times. Listen up! Your Time is running out… The clock starts now.
    https://gizmodo.com/nra-goes-quiet-o...hoo-1823129163
    Watch Fox & Friends and Trump use the exact same talking points tomorrow.


    • every lying member of the media,
    • every Hollywood phony,
    • the role model athletes
    • the politicians who would rather watch America burn,
    • the late-night hosts
    • the Joy-Ann Reids,
    • the Morning Joes,
    • the Mika,
    • bias and propaganda on CNN,
    • the Washington Post
    • ...and the New York Times.


    Looks like a list of enemies of the Red State.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 19-02-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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  64. #164

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    Look at the big smiles. Such a happy time! Because all those people got shot and some of them died, I get to have my picture taken in the oval office!

    Thoughts and prayers. It is literally the least you can do.

    Constituents hammer GOP lawmaker for giving Trump a big bag of ‘prayer cards’ after school shooting

    Rep. Mike Bost (R-IL) is taking heat from some of his constituents on Facebook after he delivered a large bag filled with “prayer cards” in the wake of last week’s horrific school shooting in Parkland, Florida.


    In a Facebook post from late last week flagged by Patheos, Bost posted a photo of himself handing a bag to a smiling President Trump in the Oval Office.


    “Tracy and other ladies from Southern Illinois collected prayer cards, which I hand delivered to President Donald J. Trump!” Bost wrote



    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/con...hool-shooting/

  65. #165

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Look at the big smiles. Such a happy time! Because all those people got shot and some of them died, I get to have my picture taken in the oval office!

    Thoughts and prayers. It is literally the least you can do.

    Constituents hammer GOP lawmaker for giving Trump a big bag of ‘prayer cards’ after school shooting

    Rep. Mike Bost (R-IL) is taking heat from some of his constituents on Facebook after he delivered a large bag filled with “prayer cards” in the wake of last week’s horrific school shooting in Parkland, Florida.


    In a Facebook post from late last week flagged by Patheos, Bost posted a photo of himself handing a bag to a smiling President Trump in the Oval Office.


    “Tracy and other ladies from Southern Illinois collected prayer cards, which I hand delivered to President Donald J. Trump!” Bost wrote

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/con...hool-shooting/
    it's just as well he delivered those prayer cards to the donald...

    he'd have a hard time delivering them to alyssa alhadeff, scott beigel, martin duque, nicholas dworet, aaron feis, jamie guttenberg, chris hixon, luke hoyer, cara loughran, gina montalto, joaquin oliver, alaina petty, meadow pollack, helena ramsey, alex schachter, carmen schentrup, or peter wang.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  67. #167

    Default

    People are posting on social media that they're turning in their guns to local law enforcement.

    Florida gun owner turns in AR-57 to the police following Parkland shooting

    On Friday, a Florida gun owner announced that he’d turned in his AR-15–style gun to the police in a now-viral Facebook post. In the aftermath of the deadly Stoneman Douglas High School shooting in Parkland, Florida, on Wednesday, Ben Dickmann arrived at the conclusion that neither he nor any civilian “needs this rifle.”

    In the post, Dickmann announced that he was turning in his AR-57―a variant of the AR-15 rifle, which has been the weapon of choice for several high-profile mass shooters―to the Broward County Sheriff’s Office. Above a group of images of him handing over the rifle, Dickmann described his thinking, saying that while he really liked shooting the gun, he didn’t think it was a necessity in his life, or in anyone else’s.

    https://www.dailydot.com/irl/florida...disarms-ar-57/
    Unfortunately, depending on where they live, that doesn't mean the gun will be destroyed.
    Tucson ends policy on destroying seized, surrendered guns

    In the end, only one number really mattered when it came to Tucson stopping its policy of destroying guns in city possession — $57 million.


    That is the amount in annual state-shared revenues the city would have to forgo if it defied a ruling by the Arizona State Supreme Court that the practice conflicted with state law. Specifically, the ruling affirmed that surplus property must be auctioned to the highest bidders.


    The Tucson Police Department has destroyed 4,820 guns turned in by residents or seized from crime investigations since 2013, city records show. The firearms are typically seized in criminal cases, although city officials note some guns are surrendered by their owners to be destroyed.


    The seven Democrats on the Tucson City Council, after meeting behind closed doors with their attorneys, said their hands were tied by the court’s decision. The city will begin auctioning off guns in the next few months to licensed gun dealers.

    http://tucson.com/news/local/tucson-...993894641.html

  68. #168

    Default

    "Specifically, the ruling affirmed that surplus property must be auctioned to the highest bidders." Doe that mean that they will be auctioning off the pot and crack cocaine that they seized? No? Why not?


    Other states and police forces learned that, confiscated guns which they sold often were used in other violent crime including the murder of fellow police officers. The police forces made a buck and then policemen died. Most responsible police forces now destroy them. The exceptions are deplorable.


    Sad
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  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post

    I get his point, I just wish it didn't sound like one of his movies...

  70. #170

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    The difference is his description of shooting scenes is accurate.

  71. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post

    Put the present discussion about gun laws aside for a minute.

    Don't you think it's weird that liberals in the US are OK with cops guarding everyone in society, EXCEPT schoolkids? They seem to WANT kids to remain undefended in the event that a psycho shooter shows up to shoot up their school.

  72. #172

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    ^False argument and blaming liberals again. You are falsely stating that liberals are using children as intentional victims.

    Since when do cops not guard schools? Police are everywhere, no exception except military bases. It has been demonstrated that there is higher security in most public schools in the US than shopping malls, restaurants and most public places.

    Your fake conspiracy insinuations are despicable.
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  73. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are falsely stating that liberals are using children as intentional victims.

    That's not a false statement. Reactionary flailing just makes a person look irrational, and it happens every single time (and only when) there is another shooting in the USA that gets lots of media attention.

  74. #174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are falsely stating that liberals are using children as intentional victims.

    That's not a false statement. Reactionary flailing just makes a person look irrational, and it happens every single time (and only when) there is another shooting in the USA that gets lots of media attention.
    Almost anybody else in the world would consider the NRA irrational or the gun loving view that owning handguns prevents shooting is inherently irrational. How you could even state the crap you've stated in the thread and keep doing while claiming others are irrational defies description.

    Plus why wouldn't "another mass shooting in the USA" get lots of media attention? The only incredible thing is that theres no limit to the NRA, or your defense of bearing arms in response to instance after instance. Its even obscene to me that you've uttered NRA prototypical defense in this very thread. Although thanks for demonstrating the distorted logic for years in several threads just so we can get a first person view of NRA based illogic here.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-02-2018 at 04:56 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  75. #175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post

    Put the present discussion about gun laws aside for a minute.

    Don't you think it's weird that liberals in the US are OK with cops guarding everyone in society, EXCEPT schoolkids? They seem to WANT kids to remain undefended in the event that a psycho shooter shows up to shoot up their school.
    Maybe it would be better if the "psycho shooter", you know, didn't have a semiautomatic weapon which they easily obtained while having profound mental health concerns. There was security in the school even armed security. its quite clear to almost anybody it didn't matter and that it is no solution to the problem. The problem is obvious. Guns. School kids comprehend this basic fact better than you exhibit.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  76. #176

    Default

    Let's compare the NRA response to the survivors, shall we?

    NRA defends grant to Parkland shooting suspect’s rifle team, lashes out at critics
    The group says its critics are not respecting the dead.

    Dana Loesch

    @DLoesch
    The grant was to Jr ROTC. The other ROTC members protected students and one heroically gave his life. I guess they — or how the FBI didn’t follow up on numerous reports of an armed madman — don’t merit your attention.
    7:42 PM - Feb 17, 2018
    The NRA’s strategy, expressed through Loesch’s tweets, is to describe the grant as one to the school’s JROTC in general. She then claims any scrutiny of the grant is an attack on other students at the school who participated in the program. Some JROTC members, along with other students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, bravely did whatever they could to protect their classmates. One JROTC member, 15-year-old Peter Wang, lost his life trying to help others.


    Loesch described ThinkProgress’ first article on the topic as “grotesque.”


    The NRA grant, however, was not provided to the JROTC generally. It was specifically to the varsity marksmanship team, which was only comprised of four people. The goal of the NRA Foundation is not to provide financial support for JROTC programs but to encourage gun use by students and recruit the next generation of activists who will fight gun laws.

    ----

    Many students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High have been harshly critical of the NRA in the aftermath of the shooting. Emma Gonzalez, a senior, delivered an impassioned speech on Saturday taking the organization to task. “To every politician who is taking donations from the NRA, shame on you,” Gonzalez said.


    “Politicians who sit in their gilded House and Senate seats funded by the NRA telling us nothing could have been done to prevent this, we call BS. They say tougher guns laws do not decrease gun violence. We call BS. They say a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun. We call BS,” Gonzales told the crowd at a gun control rally in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

    https://thinkprogress.org/nra-defend...-8f2be1c57b53/




  77. #177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are falsely stating that liberals are using children as intentional victims.

    That's not a false statement. Reactionary flailing just makes a person look irrational, and it happens every single time (and only when) there is another shooting in the USA that gets lots of media attention.
    It is a false statement and you know it. Your claim that liberals want children to be defenseless targets is beyond immoral, it is your AltReich extremist fantasy without a factual basis that outshines Pizzagate.

    You have ignore the facts and that laws limiting access to semi-automatic weapons saves lives.

    Keep flamebaiting this and every other thread. You show your AltReich bias and support for death and carnage unrivaled anywhere else in the developed nations.

    • Deflect
    • Delay
    • Deny
    • Discount
    • Deceive
    • Divide
    • Dulcify
    • Discredit
    • Destroy
    • Deal
    • Disinformation
    • Dishonesty
    • Distortion
    • Defamation
    • Denigration
    • Disparagement
    • Delusional
    • Double-talk
    • Doublespeak
    • Doctor
    • Dodge
    • Disinform
    • Defraud
    • Disingenuousness




    adding...

    • Deplorable and
    • Duplicity
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  78. #178

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Maybe it would be better if the "psycho shooter", you know, didn't have a semiautomatic weapon which they easily obtained while having profound mental health concerns.
    I agree, 100%

  79. #179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    It is a false statement and you know it. Your claim that liberals want children to be defenseless targets is beyond immoral
    You take full advantage of dead children whenever it suits your political agenda. If you showed the same outrage when Israel drops white phosphorous on Palestinian children, I might believe that you are outraged over this shooting because you care about "the safety of children".

    You don't care about gun control, because you showed no outrage when that crazy Democrat opened fire on the Republican congressmen baseball practice.

    So get off your moral high horse.

  80. #180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    It is a false statement and you know it. Your claim that liberals want children to be defenseless targets is beyond immoral
    You take full advantage of dead children whenever it suits your political agenda. If you showed the same outrage when Israel drops white phosphorous on Palestinian children, I might believe that you are outraged over this shooting because you care about "the safety of children".

    You don't care about gun control, because you showed no outrage when that crazy Democrat opened fire on the Republican congressmen baseball practice.

    So get off your moral high horse.

    I am calling you out on YOUR BULL ****

    I wrote on 14-06-2017, 02:46 PM http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...eball-practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^^^Totally agree kcantor

    It is dispicable that some posters want to make the political hay out of a tragic event by an extremist with a history of problems who had access to high powered automatic weapons. This guy or the next attack can be from the left or right or a delusional with no political views who just wants to become famous like Mark Chapman who killed John Lennon or John Hinckley who shot Reagan to impress Jodie Foster.

    These extremist wackos do not represent left or right views nor do ISIS and Islamic extremists, represent Muslims.

    Look at these people for who they are. They are unbalanced and cannot be reasoned with.

    I appeal to everyone that the way to stop this is not by making them a symbol of a cause or the poster child of their loose affiliations.
    I highlighted my old post so you can read how wrong you are.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  81. #181

    Default

    More from that same thread last year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    There Have Been More Than 150 Mass Shootings in America This Year
    http://fortune.com/2017/06/14/steve-...shooting-2017/
    The violent, high-profile tragedies have understandably captured the nation's attention. But they contribute to 154 mass shootings, 6,880 gun-related deaths, and 13,504 firearm injuries in 2017 alone, according to the watchdog group Gun Violence Archive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I like Edmonton PRT, even when we have disagreed in the past. PRT usually has a well researched position in which he debates from, and has real sources to back up his points, and not just some breitbart-rebel-news-infowarz-esque fake-propaganda-news.
    Well at least MrAltReich is consistent.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  82. #182
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    All,

    I get this topic is contentious, but please tone down the rhetoric and name calling.
    Ow

  83. #183

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Maybe it would be better if the "psycho shooter", you know, didn't have a semiautomatic weapon which they easily obtained while having profound mental health concerns.
    I agree, 100%
    if you really agree 100%, then you really should agree that no-one at all should have a semi-automatic weapon. unless you’re the only person on the planet prescient enough to be able to determine with certainty that anyone wanting one doesn’t have profound mental health concerns, never will have profound mental health concerns and that no one else with profound mental health concerns will ever have access to it and you’re prepared to devote the time to making and guaranteeing that assessment. because i’m pretty sure no-one else is capable of doing that.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  85. #185

    Default

    Vancouver artist’s cartoon of Florida school shooting resonates
    Pia Guerra's cartoon depicts football coach Aaron Feis, one of the 17 victims who died when a former student opened fire at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.
    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...resonates.html

    Vancouver artist Pia Guerra’s "Hero’s Welcome" shows a young girl leading shooting victim Aaron Feis by the hand to meet a crowd of other people killed in school shootings.

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  86. #186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Maybe it would be better if the "psycho shooter", you know, didn't have a semiautomatic weapon which they easily obtained while having profound mental health concerns.
    I agree, 100%
    if you really agree 100%, then you really should agree that no-one at all should have a semi-automatic weapon.
    No, that doesn't make sense.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Maybe it would be better if the "psycho shooter", you know, didn't have a semiautomatic weapon which they easily obtained while having profound mental health concerns.
    I agree, 100%
    if you really agree 100%, then you really should agree that no-one at all should have a semi-automatic weapon.
    No, that doesn't make sense.
    it made sense before you once again truncated/edited a post without even indicating you did so. let me restate it for you.

    no one should have a semiautomatic weapon which they easily obtained while having profound mental health concerns.

    having a semiautomatic weapon and developing profound mental health concerns makes that weapon easily attainable to a person with profound mental health concerns.

    without the ability to forecast who and when any individual will develop profound mental health concerns - unless you have that and are prepared to devote it to the public good - then no-one should be able to acquire a semiautomatic weapon.

    i trust this makes sense to you now that it is more simply stated although i know it still requires logic and reason
    to accept.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  88. #188

    Default

    I would like for someone to be able to explain why an AR-15 or any sort of semi-automatically gun/rifle is need at all. It's not for hunting, and being able to kill 17+ people in 3 minutes flat doesn't strike me as a reasonable reason to have this type of gun in the name of 'self protection'

    These school shootings should be considered terrorism. It doesn't matter if the person that committed the terrorism has a mental issue. I'm sure most terrorists have some sort of mental issue.

  89. #189

    Default

    There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters, that believe that they need a stockpile in order to overthrow the governmnet if they believe it is no longer acing in the will of the people. And, of course, they are the only ones that they believe can make that determination.

    How an AR-15 will stand up to tanks, aircraft, drones, missiles and well trained professional solders is never really explained.

    I was told on FB the other day that guns were needed when, not if, the US is invaded. I asked them if they were expecting an invasion from Mexico or Canada and why the military would not be better suited to defend against such a ridiculous premise. She cited the Mexican-American war and the war of 1812 as examples and said that the US military couldn't be trusted especially if "someone like Obama" was in the White House. I stopped talking to her then so I didn't get a chance to ask if she meant a Democrat or a black man.

    Some Gun Control Opponents Cite Fear Of Government Tyranny

    t was late January, six weeks after the shooting in Newtown, Conn. The Senate Judiciary Committee was holding its first hearing in the aftermath on what to do about gun violence.


    Seated at the witness table was Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., had a question for the NRA chief: Did he agree with the point of view that people needed firepower to protect themselves from the government?


    "Senator, I think without any doubt, if you look at why our Founding Fathers put it there, they had lived under the tyranny of King George and they wanted to make sure that these free people in this new country would never be subjugated again and have to live under tyranny," LaPierre said.


    The same argument is being made by a smaller, more strident gun lobbyist, the Gun Owners of America.


    "I think principally the Second Amendment deals with keeping the government from going astray in a tyrannical direction," says Larry Pratt, the group's executive director.



    https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallp...ct-gun-control

  90. #190

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    Surprised there's not more red MAGA hats in that crowd.

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards
    I'm sure most terrorists have some sort of mental issue.


    There's little evidence of that. None of the 9/11 hijackers had a mental health issue that I'm aware of. They were all or mostly university educated, middle or upper class citizens. You can draw a far clearer correlation between engineering degrees and suicidal terrorism as you can mental illness:
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/11/theres-a-good-reason-why-so-many-terrorists-are-engineers/

  92. #192

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters, that believe that they need a stockpile in order to overthrow the governmnet if they believe it is no longer acing in the will of the people. And, of course, they are the only ones that they believe can make that determination.

    How an AR-15 will stand up to tanks, aircraft, drones, missiles and well trained professional solders is never really explained.

    I was told on FB the other day that guns were needed when, not if, the US is invaded. I asked them if they were expecting an invasion from Mexico or Canada and why the military would not be better suited to defend against such a ridiculous premise. She cited the Mexican-American war and the war of 1812 as examples and said that the US military couldn't be trusted especially if "someone like Obama" was in the White House. I stopped talking to her then so I didn't get a chance to ask if she meant a Democrat or a black man.

    Some Gun Control Opponents Cite Fear Of Government Tyranny

    t was late January, six weeks after the shooting in Newtown, Conn. The Senate Judiciary Committee was holding its first hearing in the aftermath on what to do about gun violence.


    Seated at the witness table was Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., had a question for the NRA chief: Did he agree with the point of view that people needed firepower to protect themselves from the government?


    "Senator, I think without any doubt, if you look at why our Founding Fathers put it there, they had lived under the tyranny of King George and they wanted to make sure that these free people in this new country would never be subjugated again and have to live under tyranny," LaPierre said.


    The same argument is being made by a smaller, more strident gun lobbyist, the Gun Owners of America.


    "I think principally the Second Amendment deals with keeping the government from going astray in a tyrannical direction," says Larry Pratt, the group's executive director.



    https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallp...ct-gun-control

    “There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters...”

    Some percentages or links please. The quote provided didn’t talk about supporters or membership but rather was referencing the constitution. The rest of the article at the link link says “some” and “more mainstream” without providing any substance.
    Last edited by KC; 20-02-2018 at 08:27 AM.

  93. #193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Don't you think it's weird that liberals in the US are OK with cops guarding everyone in society, EXCEPT schoolkids? They seem to WANT kids to remain undefended in the event that a psycho shooter shows up to shoot up their school.
    Are you suggesting American children should be strapped & packing heat when learning their times tables & state capitols? Or just that they do it whilst under armed guard?
    Last edited by noodle; 20-02-2018 at 08:26 AM.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  94. #194

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters, that believe that they need a stockpile in order to overthrow the governmnet if they believe it is no longer acing in the will of the people. And, of course, they are the only ones that they believe can make that determination.

    How an AR-15 will stand up to tanks, aircraft, drones, missiles and well trained professional solders is never really explained.

    I was told on FB the other day that guns were needed when, not if, the US is invaded. I asked them if they were expecting an invasion from Mexico or Canada and why the military would not be better suited to defend against such a ridiculous premise. She cited the Mexican-American war and the war of 1812 as examples and said that the US military couldn't be trusted especially if "someone like Obama" was in the White House. I stopped talking to her then so I didn't get a chance to ask if she meant a Democrat or a black man.

    Some Gun Control Opponents Cite Fear Of Government Tyranny

    t was late January, six weeks after the shooting in Newtown, Conn. The Senate Judiciary Committee was holding its first hearing in the aftermath on what to do about gun violence.


    Seated at the witness table was Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., had a question for the NRA chief: Did he agree with the point of view that people needed firepower to protect themselves from the government?


    "Senator, I think without any doubt, if you look at why our Founding Fathers put it there, they had lived under the tyranny of King George and they wanted to make sure that these free people in this new country would never be subjugated again and have to live under tyranny," LaPierre said.


    The same argument is being made by a smaller, more strident gun lobbyist, the Gun Owners of America.


    "I think principally the Second Amendment deals with keeping the government from going astray in a tyrannical direction," says Larry Pratt, the group's executive director.



    https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallp...ct-gun-control

    “There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters...”

    Some percentages or links please. The quote provided didn’t talk about supporters or membership but rather was referencing the constitution.
    "The idea that the Second Amendment protects the right to have guns to fight against the government used to be a fringe idea, just among militia groups and Second Amendment purists," he says. "But it's become much more mainstream over the last 10 years or so."
    However the article mainly seems to address ‘supporter’ concerns over a gun registry system.

    Note that The article does not address any concerns over any form of unstable mental health rights /registry gun denial system.
    Last edited by KC; 20-02-2018 at 08:33 AM.

  95. #195

    Default

    The notion that everyone has the right to a gun is a recent interpretation of the 2nd Amendment fostered by the NRA.

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...endment-106856

    "A fraud on the American public.” That’s how former Chief Justice Warren Burger described the idea that the Second Amendment gives an unfettered individual right to a gun. When he spoke these words to PBS in 1990, the rock-ribbed conservative appointed by Richard Nixon was expressing the longtime consensus of historians and judges across the political spectrum.Twenty-five years later, Burger’s view seems as quaint as a powdered wig. Not only is an individual right to a firearm widely accepted, but increasingly states are also passing laws to legalize carrying weapons on streets, in parks, in bars—even in churches.

    Many are startled to learn that the U.S. Supreme Court didn’t rule that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual’s right to own a gun until 2008, when District of Columbia v. Heller struck down the capital’s law effectively banning handguns in the home. In fact, every other time the court had ruled previously, it had ruled otherwise. Why such a head-snapping turnaround? Don’t look for answers in dusty law books or the arcane reaches of theory.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    ...

    “There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters...”

    Some percentages or links please. The quote provided didn’t talk about supporters or membership but rather was referencing the constitution.
    "The idea that the Second Amendment protects the right to have guns to fight against the government used to be a fringe idea, just among militia groups and Second Amendment purists," he says. "But it's become much more mainstream over the last 10 years or so."
    However the article mainly addresses the concern over a gun registry system and not a mental health rights denial system - basically a mental health registry.
    I’m starting to detest those who misquote the intent of the second amendment (which is not meant to state or imply you did).

    The second amendment reads “armed AND DISCIPLINED”. How many more children must die before the US recognizes its citizens are demonstrably unable to maintain discipline when armed and simply amend the second amendment?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  97. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters, that believe that they need a stockpile in order to overthrow the governmnet if they believe it is no longer acing in the will of the people. And, of course, they are the only ones that they believe can make that determination.

    How an AR-15 will stand up to tanks, aircraft, drones, missiles and well trained professional solders is never really explained.

    I was told on FB the other day that guns were needed when, not if, the US is invaded. I asked them if they were expecting an invasion from Mexico or Canada and why the military would not be better suited to defend against such a ridiculous premise. She cited the Mexican-American war and the war of 1812 as examples and said that the US military couldn't be trusted especially if "someone like Obama" was in the White House. I stopped talking to her then so I didn't get a chance to ask if she meant a Democrat or a black man.

    Some Gun Control Opponents Cite Fear Of Government Tyranny

    t was late January, six weeks after the shooting in Newtown, Conn. The Senate Judiciary Committee was holding its first hearing in the aftermath on what to do about gun violence.


    Seated at the witness table was Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., had a question for the NRA chief: Did he agree with the point of view that people needed firepower to protect themselves from the government?


    "Senator, I think without any doubt, if you look at why our Founding Fathers put it there, they had lived under the tyranny of King George and they wanted to make sure that these free people in this new country would never be subjugated again and have to live under tyranny," LaPierre said.


    The same argument is being made by a smaller, more strident gun lobbyist, the Gun Owners of America.


    "I think principally the Second Amendment deals with keeping the government from going astray in a tyrannical direction," says Larry Pratt, the group's executive director.



    https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallp...ct-gun-control

    “There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters...”

    Some percentages or links please. The quote provided didn’t talk about supporters or membership but rather was referencing the constitution. The rest of the article at the link link says “some” and “more mainstream” without providing any substance.
    Seeing as the quote I provided includes quotes from both the head of the NRA and the head of the Gun Owners of America, I'd say that that's your link right there. They're not talking about hunting or target shooting or even self defence. They're talking about taking up arms against the government of the United States. You don't go on national TV and talk about that unless you can count on the most loyal parts of your membership backing you up.

  98. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards
    I'm sure most terrorists have some sort of mental issue.


    There's little evidence of that. None of the 9/11 hijackers had a mental health issue that I'm aware of. They were all or mostly university educated, middle or upper class citizens. You can draw a far clearer correlation between engineering degrees and suicidal terrorism as you can mental illness:
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/11/theres-a-good-reason-why-so-many-terrorists-are-engineers/
    For all we know, all the 9/11 hijackers had mental health issues. Their degrees and “class” are not good indicators of non-violent tendencies as far as I know. As for engineers, maybe there is a correlation between mental instability and the type of education received but I don’t know anything about that.

    Gun control will only be able to deny access to those with previously identified or diagnosed stability concerns.

    Terrorist groups will likely be attracted to those with the tendencies towards violence.
    Last edited by KC; 20-02-2018 at 08:53 AM.

  99. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    ...

    “There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters...”

    Some percentages or links please. The quote provided didn’t talk about supporters or membership but rather was referencing the constitution.
    "The idea that the Second Amendment protects the right to have guns to fight against the government used to be a fringe idea, just among militia groups and Second Amendment purists," he says. "But it's become much more mainstream over the last 10 years or so."
    However the article mainly addresses the concern over a gun registry system and not a mental health rights denial system - basically a mental health registry.
    I’m starting to detest those who misquote the intent of the second amendment (which is not meant to state or imply you did).

    The second amendment reads “armed AND DISCIPLINED”. How many more children must die before the US recognizes its citizens are demonstrably unable to maintain discipline when armed and simply amend the second amendment?
    Actually Ken, the exact text is:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
    The most strident of the gun owners, and the people that the NRA and other such organizations focus on is "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." while essentially ignoring the ""A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," part.

    It was put in place because, at the time, the US did not have a standing army. Every man was expected to have a rifle and be ready to use it in case of attack. The part about militias was added at the insistance the slave states so they could track down escaped slaves and return them to their owners.

    Now there's a standing army, the most powerful ever seen on this planet, as well as state National Guard units. Rather than being seen as the replacement for the militias mentioned in the second amendment, some see them as the reason for it and are arming themselves to fight them when they deem it necessary.

    The Second Amendment Isn’t About Hunting or Self-Defense, But Revolution

    The Second Amendment Guarantees the Right of Revolution


    Turns out, that’s precisely the right question to ask. The Second Amendment, after all, doesn’t recognize our right to hunt deer or protect ourselves from criminals. Owning guns certainly makes doing those things easier, but it’s not why the Founders bothered to codify gun rights. They were getting at something else—the right of revolution.


    Simply put, the purpose of the Second Amendment is to give the people the means to overthrow the government in the event it becomes tyrannical.


    Most gun control advocates scoff at this. Indeed, it’s an argument that even some conservatives are hesitant to make. How could the people, armed with rifles and pistols, overthrow the government? On its face, it seems absurd.


    More on that in a minute. But first, consider that the Second Amendment is unique among the amendments enumerated in the Bill of Rights because it contains a kind of explanatory preamble: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
    Edward J. Erler, a political science professor at California State University, San Bernardino, and an expert on the Second Amendment, has argued that the right of revolution is asserted in the Declaration of Independence, which states that governments derive their “just powers from the consent of the governed”—not every power, only “just powers,” which the people delegate to a government that is by definition limited to the purposes for which it was established, “the Safety and Happiness” of the people. Furthermore, the Declaration states that “whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.” Erler says this is what has come to be known as the right of revolution,

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/20/...ut-revolution/

  100. #200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    ...

    “There's a large percentage of the most strident gun owners, the NRA's biggest supporters...”

    Some percentages or links please. The quote provided didn’t talk about supporters or membership but rather was referencing the constitution.
    "The idea that the Second Amendment protects the right to have guns to fight against the government used to be a fringe idea, just among militia groups and Second Amendment purists," he says. "But it's become much more mainstream over the last 10 years or so."
    However the article mainly addresses the concern over a gun registry system and not a mental health rights denial system - basically a mental health registry.
    I’m starting to detest those who misquote the intent of the second amendment (which is not meant to state or imply you did).

    The second amendment reads “armed AND DISCIPLINED”. How many more children must die before the US recognizes its citizens are demonstrably unable to maintain discipline when armed and simply amend the second amendment?
    Actually Ken, the exact text is:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
    The most strident of the gun owners, and the people that the NRA and other such organizations focus on is "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." while essentially ignoring the ""A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," part.

    It was put in place because, at the time, the US did not have a standing army. Every man was expected to have a rifle and be ready to use it in case of attack. The part about militias was added at the insistance the slave states so they could track down escaped slaves and return them to their owners.

    Now there's a standing army, the most powerful ever seen on this planet, as well as state National Guard units. Rather than being seen as the replacement for the militias mentioned in the second amendment, some see them as the reason for it and are arming themselves to fight them when they deem it necessary.

    The Second Amendment Isn’t About Hunting or Self-Defense, But Revolution

    The Second Amendment Guarantees the Right of Revolution


    Turns out, that’s precisely the right question to ask. The Second Amendment, after all, doesn’t recognize our right to hunt deer or protect ourselves from criminals. Owning guns certainly makes doing those things easier, but it’s not why the Founders bothered to codify gun rights. They were getting at something else—the right of revolution.


    Simply put, the purpose of the Second Amendment is to give the people the means to overthrow the government in the event it becomes tyrannical.


    Most gun control advocates scoff at this. Indeed, it’s an argument that even some conservatives are hesitant to make. How could the people, armed with rifles and pistols, overthrow the government? On its face, it seems absurd.


    More on that in a minute. But first, consider that the Second Amendment is unique among the amendments enumerated in the Bill of Rights because it contains a kind of explanatory preamble: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
    Edward J. Erler, a political science professor at California State University, San Bernardino, and an expert on the Second Amendment, has argued that the right of revolution is asserted in the Declaration of Independence, which states that governments derive their “just powers from the consent of the governed”—not every power, only “just powers,” which the people delegate to a government that is by definition limited to the purposes for which it was established, “the Safety and Happiness” of the people. Furthermore, the Declaration states that “whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.” Erler says this is what has come to be known as the right of revolution,

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/20/...ut-revolution/
    Quite interesting. The problem is that there are also constitutional rights there to life and happiness. The amended right is infringing on the formerly assigned possibly core of ‘more’ primary rights. So maybe the onus should be on making the amended right workable and not allowing it to inflict such damage on the right to life, happiness, etc.

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