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Thread: Another school shooting - Florida - Valentine's Day 2018 - gun control in the USA

  1. #501

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    OK, then why can they prevent 17 year olds from buying a gun or have a 21 year old limit on handguns?
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  2. #502

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    That's a problem when 18 years-olds can serve in the military.

  3. #503

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    But they can't drink until 21 and may be able to drive a 60 ton battle tank with a 120mm cannon but can't rent a car until they are 25.

    Your point is?
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  4. #504

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    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

    Man on Facebook charged with threatening to shoot up anti-gun rally with machine gun


    Authorities were alerted to the post on Facebook from a tip to the Manalapan Police Department from a concerned citizen, Coronato said.


    "Steele allegedly authored a post on Facebook stating he intended to open fire with a machine gun at a 'March For Our Lives' rally," the statement said.


    Police were able to trace the post back to Steel's home, according to the statement. No weapons were found at the residence.


    The "March For Our Lives" rally, organized by the survivors of the February school shooting in Parkland, Florida, is scheduled to take place in Washington, D.C., on March 24. There will also be satellite events taking place in other cities as well as a student-led walkout on Wednesday.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/man...y-machine-gun/

  5. #505
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    Officer accidentally discharges gun at Washington-area middle school

    A police officer at a Washington-area middle school accidentally discharged his firearm on Tuesday morning and is now under investigation for the incident.

    The unnamed school resource officer accidentally fired a shot inside his office at George Washington Middle School around 9 a.m., according to the police in Alexandria, Virginia. Nobody was injured in the incident.

    The Alexandria Police Department announced that it is now investigating the incident and has placed the officer on temporary leave. The resource officer is a five year veteran of the department.

    The officer reportedly checked the area for possible injuries immediately after he fired the shot. He then contacted the school administration and his supervising officers to notify them of the incident.
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...-middle-school

    So, if trained officers are accidentally discharging their guns in schools, imagine how often this will happen if they decide to arm teachers.
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  6. #506

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    Over 7000 children killed by guns since Sandy Hook in 2012. Just children. And still the reaction is "we can't do anything meaningful about guns."

    Empty shoes, empty schools: U.S. gun law activists begin two days of theater

    “I think we’re in the middle of a cultural change in the United States. The majority of Americans want a change in gun laws, and a majority of gun owners want change,” said Emma Ruby-Sachs, deputy director of Avaaz.


    Many of the proposals favored by gun control advocates, including a ban on assault-style weapons and the closing of loopholes on requiring background checks before gun purchases, are fiercely opposed by the National Rifle Association and its supporters.


    The 7,000 pairs of donated footwear, arranged side by side in a trapezoid shape outside the Capitol, represent every person younger than 18 who has been killed by a firearm since the 2012 massacre at the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1GP15N

  7. #507

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    Thank goodness the police were quick enough to stop this guy!


    Feds: Saudi national had AR-15 at downtown Indy Hyatt during Women's March

    https://www.abc57.com/news/feds-saud...g-womens-march

  8. #508

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    Students protesting for 17 minutes is more of a teaching moment than 17 minutes in a classroom. Some schools don't agree.

    Some Schools Will Punish Students Who Walk Out of Class to Protest Gun Violence

    The Needville Independent School District in Texas also announced in a now-deleted Facebook post that students who participate in any protest during school hours will be slapped with a three-day suspension. The policy received a backlash of criticism from the community and national media and prompted the American Civil Liberties Union to issue statements reminding school districts that they cannot punish students more harshly for participating in a protest or walkout than they normally would for any other absence.


    There is a loophole, however, for students who want to protest without being penalized.
    The ACLU says parents are within their rights to sign students out of class for 17 minutes or for the entire day. It’s a tactic that can be used not only to help students protest, but to prevent a potentially disruptive situation.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...l-walkout.html

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    /\kkozoriz, 593 people were shot to death in Chicago last year. The vast majority of these victims are young, black men shot with handguns. Why is there no outrage about this slaughter? Are suburban kids somehow worth more in the medias eyes? If you want to deal with gun violence, this is where the real problem lies. In comparison, a ban on assault weapons in just public relations and nothing more.

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Thank goodness the police were quick enough to stop this guy!


    Feds: Saudi national had AR-15 at downtown Indy Hyatt during Women's March

    https://www.abc57.com/news/feds-saud...g-womens-march
    Remind us again why Saudis weren't blocked by Trump's travel ban...?
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  11. #511

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    Good thing this teacher had a gun. And he's a reserve police officer so you'd assume that he was what Trump and the NRA would call "Well trained" and he still managed to discharge a gun in a classroom and injure a student.

    BTW, there are no "accidents" with guns. Every gun should always be treated as if it is loaded. This was not an accident, this was negligence.

    California teacher accidentally fires pistol, injures student during public safety lecture

    A teacher injured a student on Tuesday when he accidentally fired a pistol during a lecture about public safety, police said.


    Dennis Alexander, a reserve police officer, city councilman, and teacher at Seaside High School about 110 miles south of San Francisco was pointing a gun at the ceiling around 1:20 p.m. when he accidentally fired it, according to the Salinas Californian.


    Alexander was teaching his students about public safety awareness when the gun went off and injured a student, who was hit in the neck by either bullet fragments or debris, Seaside Police Chief Abdul Pridgen said.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3873354
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 14-03-2018 at 02:20 AM.

  12. #512

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Thank goodness the police were quick enough to stop this guy!


    Feds: Saudi national had AR-15 at downtown Indy Hyatt during Women's March

    https://www.abc57.com/news/feds-saud...g-womens-march
    Remind us again why Saudis weren't blocked by Trump's travel ban...?
    No kidding.

  13. #513

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    Meanwhile....

    California teens unable to take part in school walkout after gun threat forces lockdown

    Many students at one California school district were unable to take part Wednesday in a nationwide protest against gun violence after one of them threatened to shoot classmates.


    All schools in the Atascadero Unified School District were locked down after the threat, and a planned walkout protest was canceled after students were asked to shelter in place, reported The Tribune.


    Police learned just before 8 a.m. that a student threatened to shoot up Atascadero High School, and officers went to the teen’s home about 8:10 a.m.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/cal...rces-lockdown/

  14. #514

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Good thing this teacher had a gun. And he's a reserve police officer so you'd assume that he was what Trump and the NRA would call "Well trained" and he still managed to discharge a gun in a classroom and injure a student.

    BTW, there are no "accidents" with guns. Every gun should always be treated as if it is loaded. This was not an accident, this was negligence.

    California teacher accidentally fires pistol, injures student during public safety lecture

    A teacher injured a student on Tuesday when he accidentally fired a pistol during a lecture about public safety, police said.


    Dennis Alexander, a reserve police officer, city councilman, and teacher at Seaside High School about 110 miles south of San Francisco was pointing a gun at the ceiling around 1:20 p.m. when he accidentally fired it, according to the Salinas Californian.


    Alexander was teaching his students about public safety awareness when the gun went off and injured a student, who was hit in the neck by either bullet fragments or debris, Seaside Police Chief Abdul Pridgen said.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3873354

    Why was this guy teaching a public safety class with a loaded gun being used as a prop?

    There are a few problematic things I noticed in this story:


    - Inadequate training before use of a firearm (obviously)
    - Live rounds used during demo (should be using nothing at all)
    - He didn't keep his finger off of the trigger


    I suppose it's a good thing he at least he knew not to point the firearm at someone.

    The real bottom line though is that the guy wasn't a firearms instructor, yet he was instructing on firearms. Isn't that a felony? And if the high school permitted it, wouldn't they be culpable?


    For a culture that has guns as such a big part of it, there is a shocking lack of training regarding firearms in the USA. That's one thing Trump should try to change, if I had a say.

  15. #515

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    How many times have people who are trained and experienced firearms experts forgot that there was a round in the chamber? There is a long line of grave markers...

    I don't remember ever seen a gun in school except when police gave lectures and they kept it holstered at all times.

    The point is, more guns mean more deaths. It is an inescapable fact.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 14-03-2018 at 05:29 PM.
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  16. #516

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    Just so someone can't sat "It couldn't happen here"

    Student who took gun to Bonnyville high school faces four weapons charges

    A student who took a gun to Bonnyville Centralized High School on Monday now faces four Criminal Code charges, including possession of a restricted firearm.


    School staff and police were not told about the firearm until the following day.


    At about 11:30 a.m. on Tuesday, Bonnyville RCMP got a report about a student who taken a gun to the high school the day before.


    Officers went to the school and arrested the student. The firearm was not found at the school, said Cpl. Ronald Bumbry with RCMP media relations.


    "The student did bring a firearm to the school, according to witness reports," Bumbry said. "It was later seized as part of our investigation."

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...sted-1.4576564

  17. #517

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    No one ever said that it could not happen here. We all remember the 14 women killed at Ecole Polytechnique, Dawson College, Concordia in Montreal and Myers High School, Taber.
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  18. #518

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    Meanwhile, Dylan Roof's sister has been arrested.

    Mass killer Dylann Roof’s sister charged with carrying weapons at S.C. high school

    On a day when tens of thousands of students across the county walked out of classes to protest gun violence, the sister of notorious mass killer Dylann Roof was arrested in South Carolina after allegedly carrying a knife and pepper spray on school property.


    Morgan Roof, 18, a student at A.C. Flora High School in Columbia, was charged Wednesday with two counts of carrying weapons on school property and possession of marijuana, according to records at the Alvin S. Glenn Detention Center where she was taken.


    Students at her school became alarmed Wednesday at her Snapchat post disparaging National Walkout Day, which was being held in response to a mass shooting at a high school in Parkland, Fla., that left 17 dead. Roof’s post said she hoped “it’s a trap and y’all get shot” and “we know it’s fixing to be nothing but black people walkin out anyway,” authorities told local news outlets.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c3ee5ac770d2

  19. #519
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    Last weekend 4 people were killed and 14 others wounded in Chicago.
    None by assault rifles.
    Do you have a solution for the real gun crime epidemic?

  20. #520

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Do you have a solution for the real gun crime epidemic?
    Which is what, by your estimation?
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  21. #521

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Last weekend 4 people were killed and 14 others wounded in Chicago.
    None by assault rifles.
    Do you have a solution for the real gun crime epidemic?
    So are you saying that the USA shouldn't look to ban assault rifles like the AR-15?


  22. #522

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    I think he's assaying that they should also ban handguns.

    Or legalize street drugs. Maybe both.
    There can only be one.

  23. #523

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    Or he could be dog-whistling...
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  24. #524

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    Chicago has tough gun laws but surrounding states do not. There is a lot of gun running into Chicago and the reason why the US needs sensible Federal gun laws and close major loopholes.
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  25. #525

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    Senator John Kennedy (R-Louisiana) on gun control after the Parkland shooting and on legislation to keep people from putting puppies in overhead bins on aircraft


    "I don't think we need more gun control laws," Sen. John Kennedy of Louisiana told CNN's John Berman Tuesday.
    "Not a single one?" Berman asked.


    "No. I think we need more ***** control," he said, referring to people who perpetrate mass shootings.



    "I don't particularly enjoy having to legislate, or trying to legislate, common decency," Kennedy said. "But by God, I'm going to do it until they take this seriously."

    Sen. John Kennedy rejected new gun laws after Parkland—but leaps into action after puppy death

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...er-puppy-death

  26. #526
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    There are a million AR 15's in the U.S. and over 300 million guns in all.
    Less than 1% of shootings in the U.S. involve assault rifles. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/a...b015db1bc8c123
    All the talk about controlling assault rifles is purely virtue signalling by politicians dancing on the graves of children to gather votes.
    The controls discussed will make nearly no difference in the murder rate.
    I don't own a gun and have no desire for one. I just despise the hypocrisy of people who try to score political points off tragedy and who try to come off as caring and responsive, when in reality they are proposing nothing of any consequence.
    When I see a Democrat politician propose something to deal with the incredible issue of young inner-city men killing each other I will listen, the rest of this issue is pure virtue signalling B.S.

  27. #527

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    Looks like I was right & good ol' racist ralph60 was dog-whistling.
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  28. #528

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    There are a million AR 15's in the U.S. and over 300 million guns in all.
    Less than 1% of shootings in the U.S. involve assault rifles. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/a...b015db1bc8c123
    All the talk about controlling assault rifles is purely virtue signalling by politicians dancing on the graves of children to gather votes.
    The controls discussed will make nearly no difference in the murder rate.
    I don't own a gun and have no desire for one. I just despise the hypocrisy of people who try to score political points off tragedy and who try to come off as caring and responsive, when in reality they are proposing nothing of any consequence.
    When I see a Democrat politician propose something to deal with the incredible issue of young inner-city men killing each other I will listen, the rest of this issue is pure virtue signalling B.S.
    You may have missed the thread title. It's about school shootings. It seems you want to discuss a different gun problem, which probably deserves a separate solution. We are not talking about the murder rate in states. We are talking about making schools safer by finding a solution to assault rifles. There's absolutely no reason to own one. Making laws to forbid AR-15s and the alike would be a step in the right direction. Most mass shootings like the school shooting, or other similiar 'terror' like scenarios involve assault rifles.
    These solutions need to be bipartisan.
    Last edited by Medwards; 16-03-2018 at 07:52 AM.

  29. #529
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    I don't need lectures from self appointed thread police, my posts are in response to Kkozoriz' comments on line 506 about 7,000 children killed by guns. The topic of this thread includes the term "gun control in the U.S.". If you want to ignore the elephant in the room, go ahead and keep your head in the sand, but don't try and tell me what I should comment on.

  30. #530
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    Noodle, who the f**k are you to call me racist. Show me one line in the 12 years I have commented on this forum that is racist.

  31. #531

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Noodle, who the f**k are you to call me racist. Show me one line in the 12 years I have commented on this forum that is racist.
    In this very thread you've alluded, multiple times, to black people being the real problem in gun violence without actually saying "black people", utilizing the exact same transparent tactics & word choice as any number of racist conservatives/Republicans. Your inherent racial bias is transparent, as is your flimsy scheme to try and hide it.
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  32. #532
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    You present the ultimate in liberal stupidity. I try to draw attention to a problem that is killing thousands of inner city people instead of the outrage that accompanies the killing of suburban kids and you think it's racist. Wow, keep your head in the sand and ignore the problem, that will really help the inner city.
    And yes, blacks have a problem with gun crime, they are overwhelmingly the victims of it.

  33. #533

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    Did you really just use the term "blacks" in a paragraph that's supposed to convince me you're NOT racist? Because you keep on talking like a racist, saying racist things & using racist language, so I'm not really seeing anything that'd cause me to change my position on your bigotry.

    That being said, how about we talk about school shootings, this thread was started for & stop derailing it? I'll stop pointing out your racism if you stop trying to shift the topic of conversation away from "young inner-city men" & other dog-whistles.

    Deal?
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  34. #534
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    You're the one who hears the dog whistles.
    Part of the topic is gun control, I will comment on it as I see fit.
    If pointing out that black, inner city youth are disproportionately victimized by gun crime offends your liberal sensitivities, well that's just too f**king bad for you.
    Again, I've made almost 2000 posts, show me one that is racist.

  35. #535

  36. #536

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    Who is Trever Noah, and why does his opinion matter?

  37. #537

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    You present the ultimate in liberal stupidity. I try to draw attention to a problem that is killing thousands of inner city people instead of the outrage that accompanies the killing of suburban kids and you think it's racist. Wow, keep your head in the sand and ignore the problem, that will really help the inner city.
    And yes, blacks have a problem with gun crime, they are overwhelmingly the victims of it.
    You are absolutely right.

    And I think it's people in poverty who have the biggest problem with ALL crime. The inner cities and poor rural areas are generally the worst, and is also why prisons are full of mostly poor people.

  38. #538

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Noodle, who the f**k are you to call me racist. Show me one line in the 12 years I have commented on this forum that is racist.

    If you disagree with a liberal nowadays you are racist, Nazi, alt-reich, alt-right, bigoted, sexist, misogynist, xenophobic, and kitten strangler.

    The best thing to do is just laugh at the far left and move on.

  39. #539

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Who is Trever Noah, and why does his opinion matter?
    Who is MrOilers and who gives a damn.
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  40. #540

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    I am a poster on this forum, just like you.

    Is Trevor Noah a poster on this forum, why should I care what he said?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I am a poster on this forum, just like you.

    Is Trevor Noah a poster on this forum, why should I care what he said?
    Because it is an opinion that the poster shares obviously. Are you suggesting that it's an opinion that you would disagree with? Kids should sit down, shut up, and get shot up.

  42. #542
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    7 killed and 12 wounded in Chicago this weekend, and according to limp noodle I'm a racist for mentioning it.

  43. #543

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    7 killed and 12 wounded in Chicago this weekend, and according to limp noodle I'm a racist for mentioning it.
    You keep on bringing up black people shooting black people in a school shooting thread, as if repetition makes it any more on-topic, as Matt rebuked you for earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    You may have missed the thread title. It's about school shootings. It seems you want to discuss a different gun problem, which probably deserves a separate solution. We are not talking about the murder rate in states. We are talking about making schools safer by finding a solution to assault rifles. There's absolutely no reason to own one. Making laws to forbid AR-15s and the alike would be a step in the right direction. Most mass shootings like the school shooting, or other similiar 'terror' like scenarios involve assault rifles.
    These solutions need to be bipartisan.
    You're not racist for mentioning Chicago violence statistics. You're a racist for using racist language & transparently trying to get the focus off of the topic of school shootings & back onto the minorities where you feel it belongs, over & over & over again.
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  44. #544

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    I’m guessing here, but without the stats I’d guess that someone just looking top down at the US statistics and seeing all humans as equals wouldn’t say that semi-automatics are the main problem. (Based on aggregate numbers assault riffles etc would be a small problem.*) Such relatively small numbers of semi-automatic deaths in absolute numbers and not distinguished by differing values placed by society on different citizens killed, would likely see such deaths on the scale of a rounding error compared to other gun deaths. I suspect handguns would be the big killer by far. So numerically it would make the most sense to focus on gun controls on hand guns.

    Someone looking at the differing values society places on its members would discount a lot of deaths between warring gangs etc. Those that place a higher value on the ‘young and innocent’ would focus on the causes of their deaths. Moreover mass deaths such as air crashes receive great attention so school shootings naturally receive a lot of attention. Probably white middle class kids more so than kids dying on a reserve would receive more attention.

    So those focusing on white-kid school shootings over the vastly greater numbers of poverty stricken neighbourhood deaths could be called the racists. It would be stupid to do so but the reverse is also poorly thought out.

    Then there’s constitutional guarantees and availability issues which make any hand gun focused controls near impossible to constitutionally change or even implement if changed.

    Semi-automatics could be controlled and limited. It’s a small doable step. A ban isn’t even necessary, just effective vetting and storage and carry permits.

    With guns it makes sense to try to keep any and all guns out of the hands of people that would use them for offensive rather than defensive purposes. Then controlling the types of guns to minimize the death tolls when the former step fails. So in terms of vetting, different degrees of allowed ownership might avoid outright bans but narrow the pool of possible owners of assault style guns to those most able to use them responsibly.

    * looking at the numbers, looking at the big picture, looking from the top down, all are often a near useless exercises because so many other measures and values need to be accounted for. For example looking at deaths by cancer focusing on the largest killer may not be as effective as focusing on a minor killer but where a small real difference can be made vs maybe making no headway at all by focusing on the largest killer.
    Last edited by KC; 19-03-2018 at 01:15 PM.

  45. #545

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    When it's a black or hispanic shooter, it's a criminal mater.

    If it's a Muslim shooter, terrorist.

    When it's a white shooter, the call is "mental health issues"

    Gee, why would people think that someone is racist? Apparently white people only act in a criminal manner when they're mentally ill. Everyone else is just evil.

    After the Quebec City shooting, Sean Spicer linked it to the Muslim ban, even though the shooter was a white, Trump supporter. Apparently, the people who wee shot were the ones at fault because of their faith. If they hadn't been in their mosque, peacefully praying, the shooter wouldn't have killed them.

    Imagine if the White House made the same comments about the white supremacist in Charlottesville or the Las Vegas shooter. Instead we got "good people on both sides" and "mental illness"
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 19-03-2018 at 05:48 PM.

  46. #546

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    When it's a black or hispanic shooter, it's a criminal mater.

    If it's a Muslim shooter, terrorist.

    When it's a white shooter, the call is "mental health issues"

    Gee, why would people think that someone is racist? Apparently white people only act in a criminal manner when they're mentally ill. Everyone else is just evil.

    After the Quebec City shooting, Sean Spicer linked it to the Muslim ban, even though the shooter was a white, Trump supporter. Apparently, the people who wee shot were the ones at fault because of their faith. If they hadn't been in their mosque, peacefully praying, the shooter wouldn't have killed them.

    Imagine if the White House made the same comments about the white supremacist in Charlottesville or the Las Vegas shooter. Instead we got "good people on both sides" and "mental illness"
    It’s like astrology. It may come down to testosterone levels, amount of, or lack of chest hair, lead exposure, finger length, toe size, childhood trauma, bugs bunny cartoons or whatever but instead one faith sees all threats in terms of other faiths, one’s own tribe as fending off all other tribes ... a whole mental framework is then built around what they think must be the cause of inexplicable actions.

  47. #547
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    KC, very well put.

  48. #548
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    Noodle, 2001 comments, quote where I use racist language.

  49. #549

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Noodle, 2001 comments, quote where I use racist language.
    Today I caught part of an interview on the radio about a girl raising awareness of mental health issues. Part way through, the issue of her “community” and their historical refrain from speaking about mental health issues came up. However, as I listened and heard the word “community” my frame of reference for that term meant that my first thought was the Oliver, Glenora, Westmount sort of “community” but instead it was the cultural group being referenced. Now, if she’d spoken with an accent maybe I would have anticipated their frame of reference and would have been in alignment in terms of the interviewer-interviewee reference. Now, does that make me a racist or does that make them racist? Probably them, right? I believe I was “colour blind” / legacy culture blind / “community” blind. Darn those old connotations, synonyms, semantics and my own personal mental impediments.

    The accent? Accents might indicate a stronger retention of values, somewhat negative in this case, from “the old country”. (Though those values are also common here but with an apparent lag in modernization among some “communities” - based on the racial orientation of the conversation on the radio. They are the ones that made the distinction, not me.) Canadian mythology has it that second and third generation Canadians aren’t supposed to have those old beliefs, unless they are good beliefs. And this girl was an example of that shedding old beliefs for new. However, it’s an example of multiculturalism and the retention of both good and not so good aspects of one’s past culture.

    That said, where Ralph60 may be colourblind, noodle only sees a racist.
    Last edited by KC; 19-03-2018 at 07:27 PM.

  50. #550

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Noodle, 2001 comments, quote where I use racist language.
    The whole point of your speaking in racist, coded, dog-whistling terms is to be openly racist without using blatantly racist language, racist60.
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    Two killed and seven wounded in Chicago Monday, but don't talk about it because that's racist.

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    Actually noodle, I've met ralph60. I wouldn't characterize him at all as racist. He has his strong views, and is actually quite socially liberal from our conversations.

    Maybe I'm wrong...but I have never felt uncomfortable in our face to face discussions. Just my $0.02
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  53. #553

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    I think the problem here is that ralph60 wants to talk about gangland gun violence in a thread that is trying to focus on school shootings. While both are about guns, they are two separate problems. Most gangland style shootings involve handguns. Not assault rifles like we see with most school shootings.

  54. #554

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Actually noodle, I've met ralph60. I wouldn't characterize him at all as racist. He has his strong views, and is actually quite socially liberal from our conversations.
    Bully for you! I've found him unpleasant & socially regressive. Agree to disagree!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Maybe I'm wrong...but I have never felt uncomfortable in our face to face discussions. Just my $0.02
    Great for you! Doesn't change an iota of my opinion. Keep your spare change.
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  55. #555

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I think the problem here is that ralph60 wants to talk about gangland gun violence in a thread that is trying to focus on school shootings. While both are about guns, they are two separate problems.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Most gangland style shootings involve handguns. Not assault rifles like we see with most school shootings.
    Plus the factors that contribute to them are very, very, very different, but I don't think ralph really cares about 200+ years of systematic oppression & how that informs the current situation, since all he brings up is the number of dead black people, over & over & over again as part of his deflection strategy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Noodle, 2001 comments, quote where I use racist language.
    The whole point of your speaking in racist, coded, dog-whistling terms is to be openly racist without using blatantly racist language, racist60.
    sometimes i think you look too hard to try and find what you want to be there...

    without naming names, you’re certainly not the only one in this thread and others that does that but that doesn’t always make you - or them - correct in your conclusions and subsequent accusations.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I think the problem here is that ralph60 wants to talk about gangland gun violence in a thread that is trying to focus on school shootings. While both are about guns, they are two separate problems. Most gangland style shootings involve handguns. Not assault rifles like we see with most school shootings.


    Thanks. This is constructive, rather than name calling.

    I guess the only quibble I have on this post M is that this thread, although entitled mass school shootings, really has touched every facet of the gun control debate. Las Vegas wasn't a school shooting. The overall gun death conversation wasn't school shooting specific.

    Should a new thread be started on overall gun control, or should we just change the title of this one to reflect the overall topic?
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    sometimes i think you look too hard to try and find what you want to be there...

    without naming names, you’re certainly not the only one in this thread and others that does that but that doesn’t always make you - or them - correct in your conclusions and subsequent accusations.
    Thank you.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    third times a charm I suppose.

    noodle. stop with the name calling. You're better than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post

    Plus the factors that contribute to them are very, very, very different, but I don't think ralph really cares about 200+ years of systematic oppression & how that informs the current situation, since all he brings up is the number of dead black people, over & over & over again as part of his deflection strategy.
    The common thread there is that it is gun violence that is the main cause of these deaths. Yes, you are correct that there are other factors in the gangland violence, far beyond any systematic oppression (because that doesn't excuse Caucasian and Asian gangs which are just as if not more violent - go tell a Triad to *()& themselves)...

    I agree that gangland violence is something that is a deeper topic.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  61. #561

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    Meanwhile, today in Maryland.

    Student gunman dies after Maryland school shooting; two other students injured

    Two students were critically injured and a gunman died in a shooting at Great Mills High School in Southern Maryland Tuesday morning as classes began, according to the Saint Mary’s County Sheriff’s Office.


    The gunman who was a student at the school 70 miles south of Washington, D.C. opened fire in a hallway shortly before classes began around 8 a.m., striking a female and male student, said Sheriff Timothy K. Cameron.


    Students and staff quickly notified an armed school resource officer, who pursued the shooter and fired a single shot at him, Cameron said at a press conference around 11:30 a.m. The shooter fired back.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.392ca934efec

  62. #562

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    Thank goodness an armed officer at the school shot and killed the shooter before he could kill anyone.

  63. #563

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    But this is the sort of person that the NRA believes should be able to keep his guns. This is also the sort of person that Trump thinks should keep his guns because he reversed Obama's EO about keeping guns from people that are unable to manage their own affairs.

    Police seize first guns under new law passed after Parkland
    Four firearms and 267 rounds of ammunition was seized from a man found to be a potential risk.


    The man, whose name has not been publicly released due to his health, was taken to a hospital for involuntary psychiatric treatment under the state’s Baker Act, which allows law enforcement to involuntarily institutionalize those determined to be a potential risk to themselves or others. According to Lighthouse Point police, they were called to perform a welfare check on the individual who was said to be behaving erratically. The man turned off the main electrical breakers to his condominium building and told officers he “was being targeted and burglarized by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and a neighbor who lives in [his] building,” the judge wrote in the order. “[He] could not describe the neighbor but stated that the neighbor [can] ‘shape shift, he can change heights and I’m not sure where he comes from’ and ‘to be honest, he looks like Osama Bin Laden.’”


    Police officers also found evidence the man had “a voluminous amount of notes containing numerous references to former President Barack Obama, that he was killed in the 1980s but came back and now murders children to place their spirits into [the man’s] head, is a member of [al-Qaida], and is [the man’s] enemy,” according to the judge.

    https://thinkprogress.org/new-gun-la...-b2e15b8e741b/

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    The shooter in Maryland used a handgun.

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    Noodle, you've never met me, Richard has.

  66. #566

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Noodle, you've never met me, Richard has.
    Why would this change my opinion that you've got an alarming tendency to speak in racist, loaded, dog-whistle words & therefore appear to be, to me, pretty damn racist? Who you hang out with isn't of any concern to me & I'm glad you're chums.

    Doesn't change anything an iota. I'm not gonna comment further on this specific issue as it's not productive, but my opinion is unchanged. Given that I'm a worthless know-nothing, my worthless know-nothing opinion shouldn't matter & therefore won't require further discussion. Feel free to think you've "won".
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    This is my 2005th post, you've repeatedly called me racist but have not shown a single example to back up your slander. Now you're trying to come across as a victim, that's just pathetic.
    I'm glad you've shut up, because you sure can't put up.

  68. #568

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    Why would I want to spend time trawling through the posts of someone I find deplorable? Why would I waste my time & effort immersing myself in your terribleness, to no valid end?

    You keep on talking like you wanna talk & I'll keep my opinions regarding your readily apparent biases to myself.
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    I would think it takes an absolute dickwad to throw out an accusation of racism without having anything to back it up.
    Since that is what you've done, you've essentially labelled yourself as a BS artist/slanderer.
    I don't want to talk, I want you to shut up.

  70. #570

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    I would think it takes an absolute dickwad to throw out an accusation of racism without having anything to back it up.
    I've spoken to your tendency to use "whataboutism" to deflect from white folks onto other races before & also to your use of dog-whistle codewords to couch your biases & hide your racism. I stand by these assessments, whether or not you agree with them or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    I don't want to talk, I want you to shut up.
    Feel free to throw me on ignore.
    Last edited by noodle; 20-03-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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    I don't ignore people who slander me.

  72. #572

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    I don't ignore people who slander me.
    Did you learn nothing from Spider-Man? Slander is spoken! In print, it's libel.
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    Since this is a discussion board, I considered it slander.
    If you want to argue whether you slandered me or libeled me go ahead.
    Either way, you have defamed me and revealed your own character.

  74. #574

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Either way, you have defamed me and revealed your own character.
    Oh no! Someone I find beneath contempt thinks less of me! Woe is me!
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    This thread needs a cooling off period. Enough has been said for now. This is about the US, there are a myriad of topics that need to be addressed that come along with gun control, and it is nothing but namecalling.

    If there is something worth reopening this thread, PM me. Otherwise, it is going dark for awhile.
    Ow

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    There are protests today, which has prompted a large contributor to this thread to ask for it to be reopened.


    The event, titled March for Our Lives, is something we can discuss, but if this quickly degrades back to where it was when I closed it, I will close it again.

    Please, be respectful.
    Ow

  77. #577

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    This was a moment of history for civil rights that ranks with MLK's I Have A Dream speech.

    Emma Gonzalez Is Responsible for the Loudest Silence in the History of US Social Protest
    6 minutes and about 20 seconds.

    "“Six minutes and about 20 seconds. In a little over six minutes, 17 of our friends were taken from us.” That’s how Emma Gonzalez, a senior at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and one of the organizers of the March for Our Lives, began her remarkable speech on Saturday afternoon at the rally in Washington, DC.


    After reading the names of her classmates who were killed in the mass shooting, Gonzalez stood at the podium in silence for six minutes, fighting back tears. It was an incredible, chilling moment. All of the major cable networks carried it live. “Loudest silence in the history of US social protest,” my colleague David Corn tweeted."



    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...ocial-protest/

  78. #578

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    Poised. Powerful. Angry. And 11 years old.

    Stop Everything and Listen to this Knockout March for Our Lives Speech by an 11-Year-Old Girl
    Naomi Wadler powerfully honors the black girls killed by gun violence.

    “I am here today to represent Courtlin Arrington,” Wadler said. “I am here today to represent Hadiya Pendleton. I am here today to represent Taiyania Thompson, who at just 16 was shot dead in her home here in Washington, DC. I am here today to acknowledge the African-American girls who don’t make the front page of every national newspaper, whose stories don’t lead on the evening news. I represent the African-American women who are victims of gun violence, who are simply statistics instead of vibrant beautiful girls full of potential.”



    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...year-old-girl/

  79. #579

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    And how does the NRA see the marches? Pretty much like you'd expect.

    I watched NRATV for an entire day. Here’s what they said about the March For Our Lives.

    "In between segments about trick shooters, something like a gun-focused Antique Roadshow, and advertisements for NRA products, NRATV was brimming with disdain for the March for Our Lives Thursday, as hosts of talk show-style shows argued that the march was really a front for socialist efforts to destroy the constitution and claimed that the march organizers were violent, anti-American, and pro-cop killing."

    https://thinkprogress.org/nratv-watc...-4b94086aa737/

  80. #580

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    And the President?

    Trump’s motorcade drove out of its way to avoid seeing children protest gun violence

    The president went out of his way to avoid the protesting children today, the Palm Beach Post reports, with his motorcade taking a detour.


    The 1.5 mile “scenic” route to Mar-a-Lago allowed Trump, his wife and son to avoid the children and an pro-impeachment billboard erected by Democratic fundraiser and activist Claude Taylor.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/tru...J545o.facebook

  81. #581

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    And the proposals from the Parkland students.

    Student editors at Parkland high school's Eagle Eye newspaper write gun-reform manifesto

    The changes we propose:


    Ban semi-automatic weapons that fire high-velocity rounds [...]
    Ban accessories that simulate automatic weapons [...]
    Establish a database of gun sales and universal background checks [...]
    Change privacy laws to allow mental healthcare providers to communicate with law enforcement [...]
    Close gun show and secondhand sales loopholes [...]
    Allow the CDC to make recommendations for gun reform [...]
    Raise the firearm purchase age to 21 [...]
    Dedicate more funds to mental health research and professionals [...]
    Increase funding for school security

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...form-manifesto


  82. #582

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    Bang!

    The Parkland Students Went on Fox News and Perfectly Explained Why the NRA Is Wrong
    “They’re fear mongers. They want to sell weapons by exploiting people’s fears.”

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...-nra-is-wrong/

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    It's amazing to see these young people in action.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  84. #584

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    The deplorable NRA was mocking the demonstrations as a “carnival” and branding it “A March for Their Lies.”

    If it was a carnival, why was everyone in tears during the impassioned speeches from brave children, teens and young adults who spoke more forcibly than any politician? The President would rather play golf that face reality.

    NRA Takes Low Road With Ridicule, Misinformation as Kids March for Life
    https://www.theimproper.com/155027/n...arch-for-life/
    While marches took place in more than 800 cities, NRA head Wayne LaPierre led a smear campaign against the student led movement.
    While protests against gun violence swept across the nation and the world yesterday, the National Rifle Association was firing back with a steady barrage of ridicule, misinformation and conspiracy theories in an attempt to shore up their base.

    As the kids made impassioned speeches for greater gun control and a ban on assault weapons, Dan Bongino, an NRA commentator was blaming the march on Planned Parenthood and “these far-left groups.” “Their sole purpose is to take away your right to protect yourself and defend yourself,” he warned.


    The NRA’s scare tactics go hand-in-hand with its smear campaigns to demonize any effort to enact any form of gun control.


    “Gun-hating billionaires and Hollywood elites are manipulating and exploiting children as part of their plan to DESTROY the Second Amendment and strip us of our right to defend ourselves and our loved ones.” the group claimed on its Facebook page. Of course, no right is absolute, including any of the first ten amendments to the Constitution, known as the Bill of Rights.


    The Second Amendment has been hotly debated almost since it was drafted. It reads: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” In its 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, the U.S. Supreme Court severed the right to own a gun from the need for a militia. It was the first such ruling in a long history of court cases. But the court put clear limits on its ruling. Run ownership was protected by the Constitution,but only for “home protection.” The court recognized that reasonable restrictions, including a ban on assault weapons, were Constitutional.


    The protests were sparked by the latest mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla, Seventeen people were killed and others were wounded by a lone gunman with an assault rifle, the weapon of choice in mass shootings. Speakers from the school clearly zeroed in on the NRA. “If we move on, the NRA and those against us will win,” said Delaney Tarr, a Parkland survivor.


    “They want us to forget. They want our voices to be silenced. And they want to retreat into the shadows where they can remain unnoticed. They want to be back on top, unquestioned in their corruption, but we cannot and we will not let that happen,” she said.


    While all that was happening, the NRA was mocking the demonstrations as a “carnival” and branding it “A March for Their Lies.”


    “If you’re too immature to carry a firearm, you’re too immature to make policy about firearms. Ultimately, isn’t that what this discussion is centering around?” said NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch.


    While many of those on the stage will be voting this November, the kids who can’t make policy will be calling the shots in 2020.
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  85. #585

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    I loved the part of the speech where this bald girl admits that her and her friends bullied the shooter, and says they were justified to do so:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arIL...ature=youtu.be


    These are the exact same cliques of kids in my schools who thought they were better than everyone else, and treated them as such.

  86. #586

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I loved the part of the speech where this bald girl admits that her and her friends bullied the shooter, and says they were justified to do so:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arIL...ature=youtu.be

    These are the exact same cliques of kids in my schools who thought they were better than everyone else, and treated them as such.
    Here name is Emma Gonzalez, not 'this bald girl'.

    So you are blaming the victims that they had what was coming to them? Being ostracized for poor behavior is justification enough to kill 17 people?

    You really are sick.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 26-03-2018 at 11:13 AM.
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    I'm all for assault rifles to be banned. I'm all for the kids who demonstrate and support their cause wholeheartedly and they bring me to tears as I see them cry. But... last night I see Barack Obama on the news saying something must be done, I hope they do domething etc. The guy was the POTUS for eight years. Eight years and he did sweet dik all about the problem. What a dork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I'm all for assault rifles to be banned. I'm all for the kids who demonstrate and support their cause wholeheartedly and they bring me to tears as I see them cry. But... last night I see Barack Obama on the news saying something must be done, I hope they do domething etc. The guy was the POTUS for eight years. Eight years and he did sweet dik all about the problem. What a dork.
    Mr O can't stay away from the limelight, its killing him..

    The kids that marched were very moving, I hope politicians are listening.

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    It's great for students to march and express their point but please don't call this a "student led protest". They may have started it but students did not organize this.
    According to CNN: "Everytown for Gun Safety supplied operational and logistical resources for marches in Atlanta, Chicago, Columbus, Ohio; Dallas, Denver, Las Vegas, Milwaukee and New Orleans, the group said Sunday. Additionally, the organization said it gave out $5,000 grants to more than 200 local organizers across the country to ensure they had operational resources. The group helped to support transportation for students from cities including Boston, Baltimore, Chicago, New York City, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia to travel to the march in D.C.". https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/us/ma...ves/index.html

  90. #590

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I'm all for assault rifles to be banned. I'm all for the kids who demonstrate and support their cause wholeheartedly and they bring me to tears as I see them cry. But... last night I see Barack Obama on the news saying something must be done, I hope they do domething etc. The guy was the POTUS for eight years. Eight years and he did sweet dik all about the problem. What a dork.
    You again forget the facts. The blame is squarely on the Republicans, not Obama.

    Obama did try to do something but obstructionist Republicans blocked him at every turn.


    So you are the dork.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assaul...ns_Ban_of_2013

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    In 2013, the Democrats had control of the senate, the gun control bill failed with 15 Democrats voting against it. At the time, Democrat Harry Reid had already taken the assault weapon ban out of the gun control bill.

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    I know. Plus he had other chances. Eight years in power. I think they must fear the NRA and gun enthusiasts to some extent too. Who wants to end up like Kennedy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    It's great for students to march and express their point but please don't call this a "student led protest". They may have started it but students did not organize this.
    According to CNN: "Everytown for Gun Safety supplied operational and logistical resources for marches in Atlanta, Chicago, Columbus, Ohio; Dallas, Denver, Las Vegas, Milwaukee and New Orleans, the group said Sunday. Additionally, the organization said it gave out $5,000 grants to more than 200 local organizers across the country to ensure they had operational resources. The group helped to support transportation for students from cities including Boston, Baltimore, Chicago, New York City, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia to travel to the march in D.C.". https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/us/ma...ves/index.html
    all true enough...

    on the other hand, i remember when the naacp did much the same thing at the beginning of the civil rights movement for marches and voter registrations... so yes, even those protests weren't technically led by those who marched or those who volunteered but it didn't make the movements less grass roots (and coincidentally much of it student led). it also didn't make them - and doesn't make this one - any less "worthy" of support and success.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  94. #594

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    Good news on gun control. Victory against a gun manufacturer who profited on assault weapons.

    Bushmaster AR-15 gun maker Remington files for bankruptcy
    Company was beset by legal problems after deadly Sandy Hook school shooting
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/remi...rupt-1.4592970
    Remington, a company that began making flintlock rifles when there were only 19 United States, has filed for bankruptcy protection.


    Mounting debts at the arms manufacturer have snowballed, ironically, since the election of Donald Trump, who has called himself a "true friend" to the gun industry.


    Remington, which has roots dating to 1816, has lined up $100 million US with lenders to continue operations. It remains unclear what will happen to its 3,500 or so employees as it reorganizes.

    Panic sales that drove revenue for gun makers ever higher evaporated with Trump's arrival in the White House, and Remington's production of one of the most well-known weapons in the world, the Bushmaster AR-15, have overwhelmed the Madison, North Carolina, company.


    Late Sunday, according to records from the bankruptcy court of the district of Delaware, Remington Outdoor Co. agreed to a prepackaged deal that would give holders of the company's $550-million term loan an 82.5 per cent stake.


    Third-lien note holders will take 17.5 per cent of Remington.


    The Bushmaster AR-15 rifle was used in the Sandy Hook shooting in Connecticut in which 20 first-graders and six educators were killed in 2012.


    The same type of gun was used to kill 17 in a Parkland, Florida, high school, a massacre that drew hundreds of thousands of anti-gun violence protesters to the capital and to the streets in cities across the U.S. this past weekend.


    The company was cleared of wrongdoing in the Sandy Hook shooting, but investors wanted nothing to do with it. Cerberus Capital Management, which had acquired the company in 2007 as gun sales began to boom, tried to sell it less than a week after the shooting.


    There were no takers.
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    One more killed and 18 wounded in Chicago on the weekend.
    http://abc7chicago.com/1-killed-18-w...icago/3263177/

  96. #596

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    8 killed by guns in Japan last year.
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  97. #597

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    When you feel that you have to lie to make your case. And you'll notice that they not only changed the target but they also altered her face. Can you say "Fake news"?

    Videos of Parkland survivor Emma Gonzalez tearing up U.S. constitution on social media are fake



    Over the weekend, a video of Gonzalez began to be shared on Twitter of the 17-year-old ripping up the U.S. Constitution.


    The offending video was actually doctored from a Teen Vogue video in which she tears up a gun-range target.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4106843/p...-constitution/

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    PRT, July 26, 2016:
    "His only weapons were a few knives and some straps to tie down his victims. Yet in less than an hour, he had killed 19 people. That's as many homicides as most districts in Japan see in five years."
    https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-07-...knives-instead

  99. #599

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    Japan has very little violent crime by every metric compared to the USA.

    Don't know why Japan was brought up. That really has nothing to do with any gun debates.

  100. #600

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    I think when it comes to gun ownership either you support it, or you don't.

    Assault rifle bans make little sense because there's really no point in picking which guns can or can't be owned, because at the end of the day they're all lethal. The idea that you can solve the issue of misuse by banning a couple of popular options like the AR-15 is pure fantasy. One cannot ignore the fact that almost all deliberate gun deaths are from handguns. Only something like 3-5% of all gun homicide is by rifle (of any kind). And more gun deaths are suicides than are murders.

    Here's a good 2 minute video on gun facts in the USA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5HHbwi7Pl4
    Last edited by MrOilers; 26-03-2018 at 08:02 PM.

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