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Thread: Scott Gilmore: Canada is not a real country

  1. #1

    Default Scott Gilmore: Canada is not a real country

    /* Stephen Harper anointed Quebec a nation. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has announced that Indigenous Canadians are a nation. Conceivably a future prime minister may continue the trend and for some political advantage describe Maritimers as a nation, or South Asian Canadians as separate cultural identity. And why not? No one has ever successfully argued that Canadians are a people.
    We do not even pass the most rudimentary test of a nation as those “united by common descent, history, culture, or language”. As the current PM himself has said “There is no core identity, no mainstream in Canada.” */


    http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/canada-is-not-a-country/

  2. #2
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    scott says "we remain the same colour on the map not because of a strong sense of shared identity or a common purpose, but because we simply haven't had much of a reason to split up".

    i would hazard a guess that it's less because we simply haven't had much of a reason to split up as we simply can't agree on the mechanism.

    from coast to coast to coast, there's no lack of reasons, many of them good reasons, and too many of those good reasons are being given too much ongoing support to stay simmering under the surface.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Sadly Canada reminds me of the former Yugoslavia, a country in name only. The regions do not really like each other and as we can now see are ready to slit each other’s economic throats. We need to rexamine what it means to be a united country or we will end up breaking apart.

    While I do not predict widespread violence I can see in the near future low level intimidation and attacks on personal property especially motor vehicles with out of province plates. It happened in Yugoslavia in the early 90’s prior to the breakup. Obviously we do not have the historical hatred so we will not erupt into war but we will drift to a gradual breakup. I hope we can collectively wake up before this happens. There is still time.

  4. #4

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    In all honesty, Canada should probably split up into individual countries and keep things as an EU kind of deal between whatever provinces join up. From a geographic point of view it is way too big to govern collectively. Peoples' interests in the East, Quebec, etc. are not exactly in tune with peoples' interests in the west. Politically, much of the focus will always be on Ontario and Quebec as they have the largest populations. Speaking from just an Alberta point of view and the pipeline situation, how fast you think we would have a pipeline built if Alberta decided it doesn't want to be a part of Canada and instead says they want to join the USA. Texas of the North.

  5. #5

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    I've travelled from coast to coast to coast and I really don't see the idea of "The regions do not really like each other and as we can now see are ready to slit each other’s economic throats." Sure there's some people agitating for one cause or the other but the vast majority of people harbour no ill will toward the people from other regions. Sure, we have our disagreements nut it's nowhere near as dire as Metro makes it out to be. If that were true then the majority of Albertans would have been cheering the Quebec mosque shooter or Quebecers would have applauded the Fort Mac fires or people from the Maratimes would have thought the Humbolt bus crash was funny. Instead, the incidents showed that across the country, people came together.

    As far as Alberta joining the states, it would be less a Texas of the North as a slightly bigger Wyoming. A relatively small population with natural resources. Alberta would rank between Kentucky and Oregon in population. It would have a much smaller voice on the national stage than it does now.

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    For such a small country, we have so many problems. It's unbelievable really, as to what some provinces get and others don't, we aren't equal.
    Alberta doesn't have a voice, the east tolerate AB, because when we are wealthy, so are they..if we're in trouble, they ignore us.
    Last edited by H.L.; 21-04-2018 at 11:57 AM.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    scott says "we remain the same colour on the map not because of a strong sense of shared identity or a common purpose, but because we simply haven't had much of a reason to split up".

    i would hazard a guess that it's less because we simply haven't had much of a reason to split up as we simply can't agree on the mechanism.

    from coast to coast to coast, there's no lack of reasons, many of them good reasons, and too many of those good reasons are being given too much ongoing support to stay simmering under the surface.
    And the there’s Spain, Russia, Ukraine, Britain, Turkey.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...tist_movements

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    Canada has many problems. But they pale in comparison to pretty much any other country in the world including our neighbour to the south.

    While democratic norms and institutions are sadly being eroded in much of the world, in Canada they are stronger than ever. One indicator of this are the decisions made by governments of all political stripes to take the corrupting influence of big money out of politics federally, provincially and soon at the municipal level. Another indicator is that all of Canada's major political parties avoid nativist rhetoric and despite small differences see diversity and immigration as building a stronger country.

    Sometimes issues arise, like the current dispute over the Kinder Morgan pipeline, that temporarily strain relations between provinces and/or the federal government. But the ties that bind Albertans and British Columbians together (economic, social, cultural and familial) are much stronger.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    For such a small country, we have so many problems. It's unbelievable really, as to what some provinces get and others don't, we aren't equal.
    Alberta doesn't have a voice, the east tolerate AB, because when we are wealthy, so are they..if we're in trouble, they ignore us.
    Oh yes, poor hard done by Alberta. We're treated the worst in the entire country. Even when we're wealthy, we're expected to help support the entire country instead of keeping every penny for ourselves.

    Who paid for the railroads that enabled people to settle in Alberta? Who gave land to the immigrants? Who built the telegraph, phone TV and radio networks?

    Yes, Alberta has never benefited from the rest of Canada and it's wrong for even one dollar to leave the province.

    Next time there's a major problem like the Fort Mac fires, I expect that you'll be telling the rest of the country to keep their noses out of Alberta's business. I'm sure Nova Scotia would have much rather kept the firefighters at home, seeing as there were major fires there that year as well.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Canada has many problems. But they pale in comparison to pretty much any other country
    I don't think that any other country in the world has a worse constitution than Canada's. So, no! Canada's problems do NOT pale.

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    I've travelled around much of Canada, have friends all over the country, have lived in Québec and Alberta, and don't see this at all. What problems we do have aren't going to be solved by erecting more barriers and generating the kind of ill will that would come with trying to split up the country.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Canada has many problems. But they pale in comparison to pretty much any other country
    I don't think that any other country in the world has a worse constitution than Canada's. So, no! Canada's problems do NOT pale.
    canada is far from perfect. per my comments above, it's component parts may - or may not - be "better" as discrete component parts.

    but, either way, there are 194 other countries in the world not including the holy see, palestine, taiwan, the cook islands and niue. are you really saying canada's constitution would rank it 200th out of 200 on that list and expect us to give that statement any credibility whatsoever?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    For such a small country, we have so many problems. It's unbelievable really, as to what some provinces get and others don't, we aren't equal.
    Alberta doesn't have a voice, the east tolerate AB, because when we are wealthy, so are they..if we're in trouble, they ignore us.
    Oh yes, poor hard done by Alberta. We're treated the worst in the entire country. Even when we're wealthy, we're expected to help support the entire country instead of keeping every penny for ourselves.

    Who paid for the railroads that enabled people to settle in Alberta? Who gave land to the immigrants? Who built the telegraph, phone TV and radio networks?

    Yes, Alberta has never benefited from the rest of Canada and it's wrong for even one dollar to leave the province.

    Next time there's a major problem like the Fort Mac fires, I expect that you'll be telling the rest of the country to keep their noses out of Alberta's business. I'm sure Nova Scotia would have much rather kept the firefighters at home, seeing as there were major fires there that year as well.
    “Who paid for the railroads that enabled people to settle in Alberta? Who gave land to the immigrants? Who built the telegraph”

    I’d guess the British.

  14. #14

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    There was an independent Canada for almost 40 years before Alberta joined. The railroad was a made in Canada project. And even if it were the British, it wasn't the people that would become Albertans footing the bill.

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    We also seem to forget the oils sand, for the first few decades of development, were not economical but the federal, Ontario, and Alberta governments bought substantial stakes in them to keep them going until they could reach the point where they were they could support themselves. Without that funding, much of it in the 70's, the oil sands likely would not be as developed or as profitable for Alberta as they are.

    One point of a country is we generally work together. That can be a rocky road but historically Canada has done a decent job of that.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    There was an independent Canada for almost 40 years before Alberta joined. The railroad was a made in Canada project. And even if it were the British, it wasn't the people that would become Albertans footing the bill.
    Made in Canada but financing came from a number of places. Labour came from Chinese immigrants among others.

    A few years ago a historian mentioned that the development of Canada represented the greatest transfer of wealth in history as the United Kingdom pumped money (investment) into Canada. (I can’t find any confirmation of that statement.)


    All those people, including all our pioneering relatives, are now long dead anyway.
    Last edited by KC; 27-04-2018 at 07:54 AM.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Canada has many problems. But they pale in comparison to pretty much any other country
    I don't think that any other country in the world has a worse constitution than Canada's. So, no! Canada's problems do NOT pale.
    Very interesting.

    How so?

  18. #18

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    Ah, 'interesting' you say

    I reckon I was too broad when I said "any other country", so let's narrow it down to federations. In North America you've got Mexico, US. In Europe you have Germany, Spain, Switzerland, Russia.
    Now let us compare!


    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Canada has many problems. But they pale in comparison to pretty much any other country
    I don't think that any other country in the world has a worse constitution than Canada's. So, no! Canada's problems do NOT pale.
    Very interesting.

    How so?

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