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Thread: What’s done more harm: Racism or sexism?

  1. #1

    Default What’s done more harm: Racism or sexism?

    I’m curious about the different insights and perspectives in this.

  2. #2

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    Ask a First Nations woman. You might learn something.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  3. #3
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    sometimes i think there is more harm than good in thinking about and trying to identify a difference between various forms of abuse and discrimination...

    they are both really about power, or more accurately the abuse of power, not about race or sex.

    and when we allow for - and look for - some kind of separation or distinction between "different types" of abuse and discrimination, we start to enable it instead of combatting it.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  4. #4

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    I agree. It is like, do you want to be beaten with a bat or a hammer. Either one is not good.

    Power affects greed, sexism, racism, good government and just about every aspect of life. Most of the richest people, from individuals to entire rich nations have walked all over, exploited and abused the poor and weak to make their wealth.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Ask a First Nations woman. You might learn something.
    Same advice goes for you.

    I hope that the "something" you learn is that individuals think differently and hold different opinions, irrelevant of race or sex. And they don't need you to preach what their opinions are.

  6. #6

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    Coming from you, that is rich.

    Have you every hired an indigenous woman? I have and some were my most trusted employees. I don't just talk but I also walk the walk. I stand by my record of hiring and working with people and treating everyone fairly and equally but no one the same. That is because every person is different and has different needs and goals.

    We all know what your views are as they are as clearly on your sleeve in the Trump threads.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    sometimes i think there is more harm than good in thinking about and trying to identify a difference between various forms of abuse and discrimination...

    they are both really about power, or more accurately the abuse of power, not about race or sex.

    and when we allow for - and look for - some kind of separation or distinction between "different types" of abuse and discrimination, we start to enable it instead of combatting it.
    All an aside, but yes I agree, and it highlights one of my concerns with constitutional rights. In order to be treated properly people have to identify as as something or other then organize themselves into some sort of fighting group and then fight for decades for a clear statement of inclusion under one of the sacred few chosen “rights”. The constitution came into force decades ago yet generations have passed before what seems like simple common respect and equality is “won” via some Supreme Court decision.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    (…)

    they are both really about power, or more accurately the abuse of power, not about race or sex.

    (…).
    X2

    You can boil down most of the issues today to power....the drive for it...the abuse of it when attained...and the problems that arise when you lose it.

    Whether it is controlling an agenda, conversation, education...it is power. Dividing into tribes, labels, groups, etc...pointless.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  9. #9

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    The unintended side of an ism, and found in marginalism, is that identification with the concept that one is suffering from marginalism opens up a potential mindset of limiting ones self determination. That life, success, results are immutable and success is for some, and not for others, based on group, and which does not provide the individual with as much hope for self driven success.

    The adoption of marginalism mindset as a key factor in one's life arguably results in marginalism. It can make individuals that much less inclined to believe in autonomy and to instead believe in predetermined design. I think that doesn't get stated enough.

    Psychically complete generations focused on wrongdoings that occurred 50, 100, 200 or more years is an arguable focus on the negative. A focus on limiters, a focus on intergenerational trauma (a disputed paradigm to begin with) and that even postulates that trauma experienced by ones forefathers is innately sensed in some way by progeny who are further impacted even though the trauma was not directly experienced.


    Jordan Peterson, one of the few that does consider the cons of marginalism impetus, stresses that too much focus on marginalism is a race to the bottom in which failure ultimately becomes the focus.
    Last edited by Replacement; 28-06-2018 at 12:55 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Have you every hired an indigenous woman? I have and some were my most trusted employees.

    You seem to be trying extra hard to add some bonus virtue to your morality score with this post.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Have you every hired an indigenous woman? I have and some were my most trusted employees.

    You seem to be trying extra hard to add some bonus virtue to your morality score with this post.
    says one anonymous internet poster to another as if calling it out might somehow add some bonus virtue to his morality score...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Have you every hired an indigenous woman? I have and some were my most trusted employees.

    You seem to be trying extra hard to add some bonus virtue to your morality score with this post.
    I see you did not answer the question. Instead you try character assassination as an offensive tactic.


    At least I have a morality and ethics score. Are you envious?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The unintended side of an ism, and found in marginalism, is that identification with the concept that one is suffering from marginalism opens up a potential mindset of limiting ones self determination. That life, success, results are immutable and success is for some, and not for others, based on group, and which does not provide the individual with as much hope for self driven success.

    The adoption of marginalism mindset as a key factor in one's life arguably results in marginalism. It can make individuals that much less inclined to believe in autonomy and to instead believe in predetermined design. I think that doesn't get stated enough.

    Psychically complete generations focused on wrongdoings that occurred 50, 100, 200 or more years is an arguable focus on the negative. A focus on limiters, a focus on intergenerational trauma (a disputed paradigm to begin with) and that even postulates that trauma experienced by ones forefathers is innately sensed in some way by progeny who are further impacted even though the trauma was not directly experienced.


    Jordan Peterson, one of the few that does consider the cons of marginalism impetus, stresses that too much focus on marginalism is a race to the bottom in which failure ultimately becomes the focus.
    A topic for another thread is property rights and inheritance and privilege and penalty based on luck of circumstance at birth. Warren Buffett has made the comment of the inequity of wealthy children being born with a “lifetime supply food stamps”. The prince becoming the king, the first born male inheriting the farm, etc. That’s one extreme. The other is the children of the slave becoming a slave, the child born to an untouchable becoming an untouchable.

    It’s the past decisions, errors, aggressions, etc that created intergenerational dictates, the intergenerational advantages and disadvantages children inherit that challenges ideals of meritocracy and fairness and the ability to rise above or fall below one’s “station” in life. (Eg First Nations treaties being signed by people (long dead) with wholly different concepts of ownership, etc with one side possibly believing they were signing for the sharing of land and not the sale of land adds a different perspective on the subsequent fate of the generations born since. ) So the subsequent abilities, conditions and rights of progeny is fascinating as people are born into an ‘ism, sometimes a beneficial ‘ism and sometimes a penalizing ‘ism.
    Last edited by KC; 28-06-2018 at 02:10 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Have you every hired an indigenous woman? I have and some were my most trusted employees.

    You seem to be trying extra hard to add some bonus virtue to your morality score with this post.
    I see you did not answer the question. Instead you try character assassination as an offensive tactic.


    At least I have a morality and ethics score. Are you envious?
    seeing as how i jumped in to this conversation in one direction, i may as well jump into it in the other direction...

    kudos for your decisions and for the results but you were also in a position to make those hires in the first place.

    i know scores of people who have never hired another person of any description for any job. that fact does not give them a lower morality and ethics score than someone who has had that opportunity. the question you're still wanting an answer to is on its own self-serving and meaningless.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  15. #15

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    ...

    Which Is Worse? Racism, or Sexism, or Asking Which Is Worse?

    “...the racism vs. sexism query is one that should never be posed much less dignified with whatever could possibly pass for an answer. It’s conceptualism at its nadir. (It has all of the futility of kids arguing over whether Superman or Spider Man would win in a fight, but with none of the charm.) Worse yet, the question, by its nature, invites the most base form of competition for victim status: Like a bad cultural studies ...”

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/convictio..._is_worse.html


    OBSCURING THE IMPORTANCE OF RACE: THE IMPLICATION OF MAKING COMPARISONS BETWEEN RACISM AND SEXISM
    (OR OTHER -ISMS)
    TRINA GRILLO*
    AND STEPHANIE M. WILDMAN**


    https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi...48&context=dlj
    Last edited by KC; 28-06-2018 at 05:31 PM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Have you every hired an indigenous woman? I have and some were my most trusted employees.

    You seem to be trying extra hard to add some bonus virtue to your morality score with this post.
    I see you did not answer the question. Instead you try character assassination as an offensive tactic.


    At least I have a morality and ethics score. Are you envious?
    seeing as how i jumped in to this conversation in one direction, i may as well jump into it in the other direction...

    kudos for your decisions and for the results but you were also in a position to make those hires in the first place.

    i know scores of people who have never hired another person of any description for any job. that fact does not give them a lower morality and ethics score than someone who has had that opportunity. the question you're still wanting an answer to is on its own self-serving and meaningless.

    MrOilers could have simply said that he never hired anyone and I would have accepted that. Instead he instead went the route of character assassination. He made that choice.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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