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Thread: Strathcona Hotel | Renovation | Proposed

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    Default Strathcona Hotel | Renovation | Proposed

    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I was hoping Beljan's next project would be the powerplant, but this will do. Excited what he has in store for this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barhonda View Post
    I was hoping Beljan's next project would be the powerplant, but this will do. Excited what he has in store for this.
    The power plant will take some time. If there's an opportunity for us to be involved then we're game. But this is our next key redevelopment on Whyte Avenue.

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    Chris, has Beljan ever done new builds? Also, can you guys buy up most of the other buildings around Whyte and work your magic? Please?
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Chris, has Beljan ever done new builds? Also, can you guys buy up most of the other buildings around Whyte and work your magic? Please?
    Yes we have. St.Claire on 106 Avenue and 82 Street, the west half of Crawford Block is an entirely new 5-storey building, the two-storey portion of the Lynnwood Shopping Centre is a new build, and more coming. But our first passion is the adaptive reuse of existing buildings.

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    Excited about the upgrades, but will truly miss the Beer Slammers at the current Strat.

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    I am excited to see the continuation in activating the laneway in the back. The city needs to do its part and repave the alley though.
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Can’t wait to see this one go ahead. When does the work begin? When is it expected to finish?

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    That is going to look terrific!

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    but are they going to raise the price of beer???

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    Nice! This will really change that corner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DTrobotnik View Post
    but are they going to raise the price of beer???
    You mean get rid of the old glasses?? I hope not!

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    this is really good news as far as i am concerned !

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    Totally!

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    This is really exciting to see. I really love how this building will also now engage the back alley. I hope the city considers repaving/renewing the alley way to further encourage pedestrians.

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    ‘Tis a fine barn but it’s no pool ya know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    This is really exciting to see. I really love how this building will also now engage the back alley. I hope the city considers repaving/renewing the alley way to further encourage pedestrians.
    I think the city is considering it. I know Ben Henderson feels it should be treated like a roadway since there are multiple businesses that are going to have their front doors onto the alley (Sugared and Spiced, plus the new restaurant going in above them, and someone who may go into the Dominion Hotel space, and now the Strathcona Hotel space).
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Well a roadway would be ok but I think if they focused more on encouraging pedestrian movement I think it would very much help businesses there be more successful.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Sorry, when I said a “roadway,” I meant it as an area that the city needs to upkeep; pave, beautify, whatever. Different than a back alley that doesn’t get the same treatment.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Can’t wait to see this one go ahead. When does the work begin? When is it expected to finish?
    We're in the process of finalizing our design and budget. We need to see how much we can afford to spend based on what we think we can lease the space for. None the less if all goes as planned we would like to be in a position to start moving by the end of this quarter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    This is really exciting to see. I really love how this building will also now engage the back alley. I hope the city considers repaving/renewing the alley way to further encourage pedestrians.
    This is something we are also pushing for. Get the alley re-paved and add some lighting to help create a space that accommodates both vehicles and people.

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    Alleyways can be incredible spaces. This would be amazing.

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    I wish the windows could open - make it a much more inviting space and certainly more profitable.

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    Fencing on site.

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    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

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    Haha beat me to it. The developer’s best friend.

    Reeeeeeaaaaaally hope the Wee Book Inn is okay, though. My favourite place in Strathcona.
    Last edited by Jabroniville; 29-03-2019 at 10:44 PM.

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    Sigh. Sad yes, but if it has to come down, I want something spectacular to replace it.

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    Looks like during the renovations, they might have had an electrical fire. Lots of old wiring in the historic hotel.

    I cannot find any info on the amount of structural damage. Water damage will be extensive.
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    Stephanie Coombs‏ @stephcoombs

    Strathcona Hotel on Whyte Ave is still standing this morning. Fire investigators on scene. External damage largely to roof, some windows blown out, but I can imagine the fire and water damage inside is very significant.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    concerning trend for historic buildings in edmonton.
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Nicely worded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabroniville View Post

    Reeeeeeaaaaaally hope the Wee Book Inn is okay, though. My favourite place in Strathcona.
    Stopped in at the Wee Book Inn this afternoon. Only damage I could see was on the second floor - a wet spot on the floor about three or four feet in diameter, a missing ceiling tile and a bucket to catch any further drips. Also a strong smell of smoke throughout the building.

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    Checked out the damage close up this afternoon and was expecting worse. Hope it can be restored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Nicely worded.
    Is is just me, or has anyone else noticed this is not the first old building in Edmonton to have a fire when it was being renovated?

    I am not sure if it is carelessness during construction or something else, but it seems to be a recurring thing in this city. When I heard the Strathcona Hotel was being renovated, one thought that crossed my mind was I sure hope there will not be a fire.

    It appears that the damage is not that extensive, so hopefully it can be repaired without too much difficulty.

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    Well, you cursed it obviously lol...

    Im curious if Chris could divulge some details as it is a little disconcerting. Any time a historical designated structure is involved, your heart beats up a little.
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    In many old buildings the old wiring may not be what you would recognize. Knob-and-tube wiring was common 100 years ago. Also insulation may be treated cotton or paper and is over 100 years old. If it gets wet or disturbed, the insulation can break, fall off or short circuit. Rodents can be a problem as well. The attic insulation can be sawdust, cellulose or dried moss. One spark or moved wire while renovating can result in a fire.









    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob-and-tube_wiring
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 31-03-2019 at 07:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    In many old buildings the old wiring may not be what you would recognize. Knob-and-tube wiring was common 100 years ago. Also insulation may be treated cotton or paper and is over 100 years old. If it gets wet or disturbed, the insulation can break, fall off or short circuit. Rodents can be a problem as well. The attic insulation can be sawdust, cellulose or dried moss. One spark or moved wire while renovating can result in a fire.









    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob-and-tube_wiring
    usually when renoing old circuits are turned off. Especially in the case of knob. there is no reason to demo them live.
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    I would expect that to be the first thing to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Nicely worded.
    Is is just me, or has anyone else noticed this is not the first old building in Edmonton to have a fire when it was being renovated?

    I am not sure if it is carelessness during construction or something else, but it seems to be a recurring thing in this city. When I heard the Strathcona Hotel was being renovated, one thought that crossed my mind was I sure hope there will not be a fire.

    It appears that the damage is not that extensive, so hopefully it can be repaired without too much difficulty.
    recall bias.... maybe?

    fires happen all the time and the majority are not historic properties. You are only spurred to remember them based on the most recent current events. Further To that the building was undergoing major renovation. From an actuarial standpoint it’s one of the riskiest activities you can undertake and why you need special insurance for it and why you regular home insurance won’t cover it.
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    I remember the 2010 Auto Spring Works fire that was caused by a structural shift that started an electrical fire and a loss of the entire structure.


    A lot of fires happen during building construction (insert multiple condo under construction fires here) during renovations or reroofing.

    When you have exposed wood, holes in walls, opened attics, doors and or windows removed, use of flammable liquids, plumbers soldering, welders using cutting torches, temporary heaters and roofers using propane torches, lots of things can happen especially when sprinklers are turned off.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 01-04-2019 at 08:27 AM.
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    Be curious to see how much of the building is salvagable... doesn't look promising for a wood framed building

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    Well I do hope that the building is salvageable. If it isn't though and worst case scenario it has to come down, I would hope that the exterior façade could be rebuilt to look like this original building. But for now lets hope the damage isn't too extensive.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Apparently the contractor was using a metal grinder Friday morning starting a small fire in the attic. They thought they put it out.... but obviously it smouldered all day before the fire took off in the evening when no one was left on site. The contractor should be held liable for negligence. I really hope Beljian can preserve as much as they can.....
    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...-investigators

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    Maybe he'll man up and use fire blankets in the futurend? It is not everyday one burns down a historical structure. Does he feel proud now because he did it his right way rather than the safe way? There is absolutely no excuse for this.
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    Why would you think the guy feels proud?

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    Because I have seen one too many divas with their egos thinking they're such experts that they know what theyre doing without the need of such caution. If I could earn a dime for all the the mishaps I have seen due to such stupid lack of or disregard to due diligence...
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    If you've seen so many mishaps, you might be bad luck!
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Because I have seen one too many divas with their egos thinking they're such experts that they know what theyre doing without the need of such caution. If I could earn a dime for all the the mishaps I have seen due to such stupid lack of or disregard to due diligence...

    I was talking with a friend who works for a building management company on Sunday about this fire. She has only worked there 18 months and she says that so many trades people are sloppy. Electricians who don't shut off the right circuits and zap themselves or blow breakers when they ground out a line. She told a carpenter that how he was using a tablesaw was unsafe and she was told that he knew what he was doing. Five minutes later she was driving him to emergency after he cut off his finger. On Saturday she told a labourer that he was setting up a construction heater too close to the sprinkler system and he told her, "little lady, why don't you go back to your office? " a few minutes later the guy set off the sprinkler system and she had to shut down the valves herself as the guy ran around not knowing what to do.

    But then what do women know about construction?
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    Unfortunately there are lots of unqualified tradesmen. They talk a big game but in truth barely know the basics of their trade. With that said there are also some fine tradesmen out there too.

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    I agree there are some great Trades People around. Just the few that think there way is the best. Or they are just lazy. which I see way to many times on projects. In fact certain projects I know what the work will be like when I am told who the contractor or subs are. There are some contractors I love working with. When I do a field review I rarely have many notes. and then there is the one I had 18 pages of issues. This one sound like the person thought it was out. best to be Smoky the bear in this situation. If you can feel heat, its still active.

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    Still remember as a teenager when the neighbours had the laminate replaced on the kitchen counters. The two guys were using contact cement and the vapors went downstairs to the hot water heater pilot light. Flashed back and the kitchen counters went up in flames. $40,000 in fire and water damage.
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    A brand new house down the street from us went up in flames because a tradesman left a rag with stain on it in the kitchen and it self-combusted. The people had just moved all their stuff in 2 days ago, then went on a trip to Mexico. They didn’t even spend a night in the house.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    All I can say based on what the fire investigator told us and the site report from our insurer is that the fire damage is not too extensive. Based on what we currently know it looks like we'll be able to save this one and continue on with our plan to repurpose it. I'll share more details as they come in. But we're very hopeful!

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    Thanks, Chris! That's great to hear. Please do keep us posted.
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    So relieved to know that, and great to know you folks are making 110% efort to ensure its designation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    If you've seen so many mishaps, you might be bad luck!
    Good or bad luck has nothing to do with irresponsible idiots. A historical sight is most likely to be extra dry, and doing grinding generate sparks. The sparks were not controlled or contained hence the accident. What does luck have to do with it? Use some common sense. How does bad luck equate with wood and sparks? Even CHIMPANZEES could figure that out. If anything, you're excuse for stupidly is surprising. Do me a favor go create some sparks in a dry forest if you think it has to do with luck...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    If you've seen so many mishaps, you might be bad luck!
    Good or bad luck has nothing to do with irresponsible idiots. A historical sight is most likely to be extra dry, and doing grinding generate sparks. The sparks were not controlled or contained hence the accident. What does luck have to do with it? Use some common sense. How does bad luck equate with wood and sparks? Even CHIMPANZEES could figure that out. If anything, you're excuse for stupidly is surprising. Do me a favor go create some sparks in a dry forest if you think it has to do with luck...
    Some earlier comments help better explain the situation to me. It is apparent some of the people working on these sites are not aware or familiar of the unique challenges they pose. Perhaps it is some combination of a lack of training or thoughtlessness. I suppose if you are used to working mainly on new buildings you might not think about these things.

    I am glad to here the damage was not that bad.

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    If they're not used to working on heritage buildings, they it's the responsibility of the company to ensure that they're trained to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Because I have seen one too many divas with their egos thinking they're such experts that they know what theyre doing without the need of such caution. If I could earn a dime for all the the mishaps I have seen due to such stupid lack of or disregard to due diligence...
    Okay, the last 6 posts list examples of inattentive contractors and trades workers who caused major fires due to their sloppiness.

    But the Strat Hotel fire, specifically, is a double fail.

    A worker started the fire when sparks from a grinder ignited the insulation. The contractor doing renovation work used an extinguisher on the flames and believed it was out. 11 hours later at 9:30pm Friday, the hotel was in danger of being burnt toast.

    When in doubt, call the fire department.

    Strathcona Hotel fire reveals limitations of fire extinguishers, expert says
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...hers-1.5081791
    They are the experts. I wonder if the initial mishap with the grinder was even reported to the developer or foreman (excuse me if I am not familiar with construction site protocol).

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Because I have seen one too many divas with their egos thinking they're such experts that they know what theyre doing without the need of such caution. If I could earn a dime for all the the mishaps I have seen due to such stupid lack of or disregard to due diligence...
    Okay, the last 6 posts list examples of inattentive contractors and trades workers who caused major fires due to their sloppiness.

    But the Strat Hotel fire, specifically, is a double fail.

    A worker started the fire when sparks from a grinder ignited the insulation. The contractor doing renovation work used an extinguisher on the flames and believed it was out. 11 hours later at 9:30pm Friday, the hotel was in danger of being burnt toast.

    When in doubt, call the fire department.

    Strathcona Hotel fire reveals limitations of fire extinguishers, expert says
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...hers-1.5081791
    They are the experts. I wonder if the initial mishap with the grinder was even reported to the developer or foreman (excuse me if I am not familiar with construction site protocol).
    your thoughts are bang on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    If you've seen so many mishaps, you might be bad luck!
    Good or bad luck has nothing to do with irresponsible idiots. A historical sight is most likely to be extra dry, and doing grinding generate sparks. The sparks were not controlled or contained hence the accident. What does luck have to do with it? Use some common sense. How does bad luck equate with wood and sparks? Even CHIMPANZEES could figure that out. If anything, you're excuse for stupidly is surprising. Do me a favor go create some sparks in a dry forest if you think it has to do with luck...
    Some earlier comments help better explain the situation to me. It is apparent some of the people working on these sites are not aware or familiar of the unique challenges they pose. Perhaps it is some combination of a lack of training or thoughtlessness. I suppose if you are used to working mainly on new buildings you might not think about these things.

    I am glad to here the damage was not that bad.
    That is a fair response; whether the employees were knowledgenable or not, it is the employers responsibility to ensure their staffs are adequately trained and informed for the job which would include all "potential hazards." Those are not my personal believes or standards; they're "OH&S" regulations, acts, and codes. On top of that, the failure to have adequate fire extinguishers is another disregard to OH&S. I understand if one is not familiar with construction laws , and that would seem the logical perspective. These construction bible thumper (OH&S) could now easily lay financial fines to the individual worker and company.

    Going forward, I hope the contractor can rectify and guard our gem with a bit more pertinent outlook. This is historic after all.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 03-04-2019 at 12:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66
    They are the experts. I wonder if the initial mishap with the grinder was even reported to the developer or foreman (excuse me if I am not familiar with construction site protocol).


    Most commercial sites (ie: not a house) will have policies in place for work involving open flame, sparks, grinders etc. You have to notify the GC, have a fire watch, and so on. There's so much risk in that kind of work that it should be watched pretty closely.

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    Particularly when you're dealing with a 100+ year old, wooden building.

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    I can guarantee that the worker who started the fire and thought he put it out, did not report the incident to his boss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I can guarantee that the worker who started the fire and thought he put it out, did not report the incident to his boss.
    It’s was you? 🧐

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    ^^ You mean the recently unemployed worker? I mean, how difficult would it be to discover the culprit?
    ... gobsmacked

  71. #71

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    ^^ Nope. I am the guy who teaches workers on safety and avoiding accidents.

    My favorite demonstration was to put a 4ft long piece of angle iron in a bench vice in "V" orientation and one end slightly higher than the other. Then take a small rag soaked in lacquer thinner and place it at the higher end and let it sit for a minute. Then in the demo I would hold a match one inch above the rag and nothing would happen. I would then throw the match on the floor at the far end of the angle iron and WOOF! the flame would flash the vapors and along the angle iron and set the rag on fire. Always shocked the people on how unseen vapors can ignite.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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