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Thread: Park Avenue Condos (105 Avenue and 113 Street)

  1. #1
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    Default Park Avenue Condos (105 Avenue and 113 Street)

    For years, Westrich Pacific has been using a plot of land on 105 Ave as storage for various construction materials - a few weeks ago, all materials were removed and now this morning crews arrived and started leveling the ground in preparation for what appears to be construction. A new sign has been posted advertising Park Avenue - a building that looks to be a near carbon copy of my building, the MAXX.

    http://www.parkavecondos.ca

  2. #2

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    I really wish they would step it up a bit. Very vanilla.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  3. #3

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    Why should they as long as people are willing to pay for vanilla?

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    Even more of a factor is that the economy still isn't booming (and some folks are always "under the gun" financially)... Supply & Demand.

    If you can't afford Chocolate Almond you may need to buy Vanilla.

    A smart developer offers what people want, balanced with what they believe they need, balanced with what they can afford.
    Last edited by Big Bird; 20-07-2018 at 12:01 PM.

  5. #5

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    I'd rather that the economy not boom, because then comes the inevitable bust. But, Alberta never seems to learn that lesson.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamEDM View Post
    For years, Westrich Pacific has been using a plot of land on 105 Ave as storage for various construction materials - a few weeks ago, all materials were removed and now this morning crews arrived and started leveling the ground in preparation for what appears to be construction. A new sign has been posted advertising Park Avenue - a building that looks to be a near carbon copy of my building, the MAXX.

    http://www.parkavecondos.ca
    I bike past MAXX every day to get to my work on 107 ave. It looks like a nice enough building from the outside.

    Given the distance from downtown and Jasper Ave, and the fact that the city hasn't followed through with their years long discussion to revitalize 105 avenue/Columbia Avenue, I the fit, finish, and height of the Park Avenue seem appropriate for the risk involved.

    The businesses in the Horizon building on 111 st and the ones like the Art of Cake west of 116 st do help, plus the multi use trail means you're at least separated from automobile traffic instead of walking along the street like you used to.

    Park Avenue is also adjacent to the path leading to a nice pocket park in the Oliver Village shopping area east of Oliver Square. You can easily get to MacEwan, Oliver Square, and the Brewery District from that spot, so it does have good access to amenities.

  7. #7

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    From ParkAveCondos.ca:
    Quote Originally Posted by parkavecondos.ca


  8. #8
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    Looks OK though not overly enthused by this.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  9. #9
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    This is very much under construction. Shoring and excavation underway.

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    Fokin ghastly

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    ^Really? Seems pretty standard fare for North Edge. Better looking than some of the stuff that's been built recently in the area like Mtrac.

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    the size fits the area.

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    Seems pretty nice for the area. I assume this area is pretty attractive to Macewan students. I wonder if this 5 story will be a wood frame building like Inifiniti.

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    ^ looks like a duplicate of the Maxx...or is it the Zen? whatevs, just a different colour scheme

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    Christ yes. This is awful. Hard to imagine how it could be much worse? Agree that it's relatively standard fare for new buildings in North Edge... most of which are ghastly. Zero thought, effort, or care, just machines to make money as quickly and easily as possible.

    Disagree re: MTrac, by no means is that a masterpiece but there's at least a twinkle of an idea of how to do things differently in that building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    ^Really? Seems pretty standard fare for North Edge. Better looking than some of the stuff that's been built recently in the area like Mtrac.
    Last edited by bleppers; 20-08-2018 at 12:38 PM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    Christ yes. This is awful. Hard to imagine how it could be much worse? Agree that it's relatively standard fare for new buildings in North Edge... most of which are ghastly. Zero thought, effort, or care, just machines to make money as quickly and easily as possible.

    Disagree re: MTrac, by no means is that a masterpiece but there's at least a twinkle of any idea of how to do things differently in that building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    ^Really? Seems pretty standard fare for North Edge. Better looking than some of the stuff that's been built recently in the area like Mtrac.
    How would you design
    an entry level for mid-end earners? It looks in accordance with the entry mid-end area of downtown. It looks respectable to me. If this was along the river with a high price tag, i would agree.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 19-08-2018 at 04:27 PM.
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  17. #17
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    This is a terrible building. Surprising this is from Westrich given that they seemed to have been improving their designs with each project. Yikes.

  18. #18

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    Consider that 105 avenue still has the bottle depot along 109th, has no sidewalks, just a multi-use path, and other then the businesses in Horizon and Satlz Bratwurst Co doesn't have many retail focused adjacent businesses, just a lot of light industrial/commercial oriented businesses. There is Oliver Square right next door, but from pure curb appeal the above points make the area a tougher sell. One way to offset this is to sell the units at a reasonable rate, from an off the shelf, relatively frugal building plan. By duplicating the Maxx with a bit different finish they can cut their costs, and sell the units at a price that will be attractive enough to offset the negatives of the area. In twenty years, when the city finally starts to build out the North Edge in the way they talked about in the past, you might see a higher level of fit and fitness, but not before that time.

    My pic, from last week:

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    How would you design
    an entry level for mid-end earners? It looks in accordance with the entry mid-end area of downtown. It looks respectable to me. If this was along the river with a high price tag, i would agree.
    I feel like we've had this same discussion on like 5 different threads so I'll repeat what I always say:

    1. Just because it looks like the rest of the crappy buildings around it doesn't mean it's not crappy
    2. It's possible to design nice-looking buildings that aren't expensive

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Consider that 105 avenue still has the bottle depot along 109th, has no sidewalks, just a multi-use path, and other then the businesses in Horizon and Satlz Bratwurst Co doesn't have many retail focused adjacent businesses, just a lot of light industrial/commercial oriented businesses. There is Oliver Square right next door, but from pure curb appeal the above points make the area a tougher sell. One way to offset this is to sell the units at a reasonable rate, from an off the shelf, relatively frugal building plan. By duplicating the Maxx with a bit different finish they can cut their costs, and sell the units at a price that will be attractive enough to offset the negatives of the area. In twenty years, when the city finally starts to build out the North Edge in the way they talked about in the past, you might see a higher level of fit and fitness, but not before that time.
    It's honestly a bit depressing how low many people's expectations are on here. There are many cities where developers build perfectly nice, affordable multi-family housing (and other buildings). The problem isn't economic, it's cultural. We could have it here if we asked for it. But we don't, instead we make excuses for these yahoos who are filling our city with bad buildings and getting rich doing it.

  21. #21
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    Exactly. We are also building for 25-50yrs out, not today.
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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    How would you design
    an entry level for mid-end earners? It looks in accordance with the entry mid-end area of downtown. It looks respectable to me. If this was along the river with a high price tag, i would agree.
    I feel like we've had this same discussion on like 5 different threads so I'll repeat what I always say:

    1. Just because it looks like the rest of the crappy buildings around it doesn't mean it's not crappy
    2. It's possible to design nice-looking buildings that aren't expensive
    Here is several issues with that statement:
    1. Have you seen that area with your two eyes? USTAUK described that quite well.
    2. If an Ultima was built there, do you think she would sell? Who would pay premium prices for premium products so they can stare at industrial roads, and semi industrial establishments?
    3. This area is 15 years away from eye candy development- possibly 20 years.

    This is why this development is acceptable for me. They're entry levels for young people. This is not money real estate of the well off to rich. We need to be realistic. This is as great as it will get at this immediate stage. Once more businesses exit the area, better development will forge. Which developer or individual dreamer in their right mind would develope nicer products here at this stage? Good luck in selling and making profits! Who would be entice for this area? Young couples and professionals starting out and want to be downtown . They won't fork out for ultima. This is what they could afford. We can't jusht wish for Farraris at every corners as that would mean everyone would earn Farrari salaries. Unfortunately, we don't! I dont care if one is in development or just a dreamer, at some point, we all have to be realistic, and come back to earth for some oxygen.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 20-08-2018 at 05:43 PM.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    How would you design
    an entry level for mid-end earners? It looks in accordance with the entry mid-end area of downtown. It looks respectable to me. If this was along the river with a high price tag, i would agree.
    I feel like we've had this same discussion on like 5 different threads so I'll repeat what I always say:

    1. Just because it looks like the rest of the crappy buildings around it doesn't mean it's not crappy
    2. It's possible to design nice-looking buildings that aren't expensive
    Here is several issues with that statement:
    1. Have you seen that area with your two eyes? USTAUK described that quite well.
    2. If an Ultima was built there, do you think she would sell? Who would pay premium prices for premium products so they can stare at industrial roads, and semi industrial establishments?
    3. This area is 15 years away from eye candy development- possibly 20 years.

    This is why this development is acceptable for me. They're entry levels for young people. This is not money real estate of the well off to rich. We need to be realistic. This is as great as it will get at this immediate stage. Once more businesses exit the area, better development will forge. Which developer or individual dreamer in their right mind would develope nicer products here at this stage? Good luck in selling and making profits! Who would be entice for this area? Young couples and professionals starting out and want to be downtown . They won't fork out for ultima. This is what they could afford. We can't jusht wish for Farraris at every corners as that would mean everyone would earn Farrari salaries. Unfortunately, we don't! I dont care if one is in development or just a dreamer, at some point, we all have to be realistic, and come back to earth for some oxygen.
    1. Just because it looks like the rest of the crappy buildings around it doesn't mean it's not crappy
    2. It's possible to design nice-looking buildings that aren't expensive

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    1. Just because it looks like the rest of the crappy buildings around it doesn't mean it's not crappy
    2. It's possible to design nice-looking buildings that aren't expensive
    The interiors of some units for sale in the Maxx look up to modern standards, with some units boasting quartz or granite countertops. The units range from $264,000 to $284,000 on resale, so I imagine new units in Park Avenue may be a bit more or on par. Can you specifically give an example of a condominium at that price point with a nicer exterior finish/design?
    Last edited by Ustauk; 22-08-2018 at 11:48 AM.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    How would you design
    an entry level for mid-end earners? It looks in accordance with the entry mid-end area of downtown. It looks respectable to me. If this was along the river with a high price tag, i would agree.
    I feel like we've had this same discussion on like 5 different threads so I'll repeat what I always say:

    1. Just because it looks like the rest of the crappy buildings around it doesn't mean it's not crappy
    2. It's possible to design nice-looking buildings that aren't expensive
    Here is several issues with that statement:
    1. Have you seen that area with your two eyes? USTAUK described that quite well.
    2. If an Ultima was built there, do you think she would sell? Who would pay premium prices for premium products so they can stare at industrial roads, and semi industrial establishments?
    3. This area is 15 years away from eye candy development- possibly 20 years.

    This is why this development is acceptable for me. They're entry levels for young people. This is not money real estate of the well off to rich. We need to be realistic. This is as great as it will get at this immediate stage. Once more businesses exit the area, better development will forge. Which developer or individual dreamer in their right mind would develope nicer products here at this stage? Good luck in selling and making profits! Who would be entice for this area? Young couples and professionals starting out and want to be downtown . They won't fork out for ultima. This is what they could afford. We can't jusht wish for Farraris at every corners as that would mean everyone would earn Farrari salaries. Unfortunately, we don't! I dont care if one is in development or just a dreamer, at some point, we all have to be realistic, and come back to earth for some oxygen.
    1. Just because it looks like the rest of the crappy buildings around it doesn't mean it's not crappy
    2. It's possible to design nice-looking buildings that aren't expensive

    Your number 2 statement gave me a smile. You said the same with the "Box" project. You stated you could have designed better in 15 minutes. I put you to a challenge, and so did Chris. That 15 minutes is now months past, so where is your better concept? You cant do it, but your mouth keeps on yapping it can be done. If you yap, you see a vission, but dont expect others to create miracles because you cant accept reality. The best way to prove to me is with your feet; i have nothing against you; but so far you are failing based on what you said but didnt deliver..
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 22-08-2018 at 04:15 PM.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post

    Your number 2 statement gave me a smile. You said the same with the "Box" project. You stated you could have designed better in 15 minutes. I put you to a challenge, and so did Chris. That 15 minutes is now months past, so where is your better concept? You cant do it, but your mouth keeps on yapping it can be done. If you yap, you see a vission, but dont expect others to create miracles because you cant accept reality. The best way to prove to me is with your feet; i have nothing against you; but so far you are failing based on what you said but didnt deliver..
    So because I didn't design a building for free for a person I don't know on an internet forum it's impossible for developers to provide nicer buildings than the absolute trash that's the subject of this thread? Rock solid argument.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    1. Just because it looks like the rest of the crappy buildings around it doesn't mean it's not crappy
    2. It's possible to design nice-looking buildings that aren't expensive
    The interiors of some units for sale in the Maxx look up to modern standards, with some units boasting quartz or granite countertops. The units range from $264,000 to $284,000 on resale, so I imagine new units in Park Avenue may be a bit more or on par. Can you specifically give an example of a condominium at that price point with a nicer exterior finish/design?
    K you're right, this fuking disgrace is the pinnacle of what's achievable.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    1. Just because it looks like the rest of the crappy buildings around it doesn't mean it's not crappy
    2. It's possible to design nice-looking buildings that aren't expensive
    The interiors of some units for sale in the Maxx look up to modern standards, with some units boasting quartz or granite countertops. The units range from $264,000 to $284,000 on resale, so I imagine new units in Park Avenue may be a bit more or on par. Can you specifically give an example of a condominium at that price point with a nicer exterior finish/design?
    K you're right, this fuking disgrace is the pinnacle of what's achievable.
    You can definitely do better. The Bentley by the University of Alberta is an example of low-rise condominium with a nice level of exterior finish. This larger 4th floor unit is going for $975,000. Even with a ground level unit probably going for half that value, that gives you an idea of the price point, view, and location that developers believe they need before they will be willing to spend the money for a nice finish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmontonrealestate.ca

    Walking through the area again the other day, I realized what it is. The area is a commerical/light industrial park left over from when the railyard was conveniently near-bye. Although the south view is of Oliver and the west view is of downtown/MacEwan, the north view , and the pedestrian experience out the front door are of the commercial area. The developer believes they have to keep the price relatively low to sell in these conditions, and so they won't invest in a nicer exterior finish for buildings in the area. Until the area gentrifies further and the market demands a more upscale finish, the developers are unlikely to pay for a better finish out of the kindess of their heart or newly found civic pride.

    I wish developer's wouldn't cheap out. There is an example of a condominium in Oliver that was reasonably price a while back, with a nice finish. I can't remember the name of the building, but a here is a Kijiji listing for a rental in it. If I recall correctly, the building is actually made of concrete, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kijiji
    Quote Originally Posted by Google Maps

  29. #29

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    I like brick as much as anyone, but I don't want to see a neighbourhood full of retro-historical buildings especially with stuccod Styrofoam cornices.
    There can only be one.

  30. #30

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    ^
    Point taken. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so that's probably another reason to not go overboard on the exterior finish. Vanilla sells the most because it is inoffensive to the most.

    The Maxx, and probably Park Avenue to follow, remind me of a sprinkle-covered donut. If you don't like the black brick, you've got corrugated steel above; if you don't like that you have flat panelling, etc. On Maxx, the black brick on the first two levels facing 113 st gives a nice street facing facade. The finishing above does make for a nice variety. They should have make the first two levels black brick, rather the ending the brick at the first level along 105 ave, but I'm guessing that's a spot they decide to save money on.

    They probably will sell reasonably well to frugal professionals who want downtown accessibility at a good cost, oil field workers who want access to the arena and downtown on their off days, and want a newer underground parkade with room to park their work truck, and to people who want to rent to the above and MacEwan students.

    I just hope they don't cut corners on the build quality. My in-laws condo in Baranow was built with drain spouts pointing in towards the stucco, and now they're having the buildings exterior ripped off to replace the dissolved fibreboard underneath
    Last edited by Ustauk; 27-08-2018 at 02:10 PM.

  31. #31

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    My pictures from Saturday, September 1, 2018.

    They've begun to dig the garage/foundation.



    Northeast view from the property. The lot north of the property has had everyting from RVs camped in it to large pipes. I'm not sure who it belongs to. I expect the units facing north will have a bit of a discount, given this is the view This would be the east view from Maxx too, but at least you can see MacEwan and the rising Ice District from that angle.



    And here's the Maxx condominium for comparison. Also a large component of the northwest view from Parkview.


  32. #32

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    That vacant lot was ATCO gas, including a natural gas vehicle fill. That they’re not using the site at all makes me think there will be a redevelopment coming soon.
    There can only be one.

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