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Thread: Edmonton Oilers 2018/19 Season

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
    I love Lucic. Even when I hated him, I loved him.

    Seemed like a good idea at the time, I suppose, but I'm not sure what they expected from a guy who was already past his peak. Chiarelli looked at him, and saw the guy that played for him years earlier, in a much different league.

    It's hard to watch a real warrior fade. All the heart in the world, but he can't will himself to keep up to the speed of a game that's moved on.

    A lot of teams have one or two bad contracts like that. It's tough on everybody.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 11-11-2018 at 01:31 AM.
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  3. #203
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    Cooper Marody recalled from the minors.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
    I love Lucic. Even when I hated him, I loved him.

    Seemed like a good idea at the time, I suppose, but I'm not sure what they expected from a guy who was already past his peak. Chiarelli looked at him, and saw the guy that played for him years earlier, in a much different league.

    It's hard to watch a real warrior fade. All the heart in the world, but he can't will himself to keep up to the speed of a game that's moved on.

    A lot of teams have one or two bad contracts like that. It's tough on everybody.
    But the game has changed as well and the speed and temp. Even back on the Kings Lucic looked slow to me, and on a Kings lineup that desperately needed more tempo. Lucic can't get to enough plays anymore, not to enough forechecks to effectively sustain offense. Even with Draisaitl he was unable to do this. I watched the Kings last night, man are they dead. They all look slower this year, Carter, Kopitar etal look done. kovalchuk is the only player on that team that looks good. They're just dead. every play I dead because they no longer have the legs. it happens. Time for a drastic rebuild in LA. Oilers should stay tuned this season for any pickups.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  5. #205
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    Yes they’re terrible.....until they beat us in the playoffs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
    I love Lucic. Even when I hated him, I loved him.

    Seemed like a good idea at the time, I suppose, but I'm not sure what they expected from a guy who was already past his peak. Chiarelli looked at him, and saw the guy that played for him years earlier, in a much different league.

    It's hard to watch a real warrior fade. All the heart in the world, but he can't will himself to keep up to the speed of a game that's moved on.

    A lot of teams have one or two bad contracts like that. It's tough on everybody.
    But the game has changed as well and the speed and temp. Even back on the Kings Lucic looked slow to me, and on a Kings lineup that desperately needed more tempo. Lucic can't get to enough plays anymore, not to enough forechecks to effectively sustain offense. Even with Draisaitl he was unable to do this. I watched the Kings last night, man are they dead. They all look slower this year, Carter, Kopitar etal look done. kovalchuk is the only player on that team that looks good. They're just dead. every play I dead because they no longer have the legs. it happens. Time for a drastic rebuild in LA. Oilers should stay tuned this season for any pickups.
    Why, so the Oilers get LA's excess baggage? Not to mention contracts the above names dropped above would command. You have just mentioned one such player Oilers already have in the current line up. Why would the Oilers (or any team) pick up these types of players to have more of what Oilers already have? This would be epic folly on
    Chiarelli's already tainted career in signing such players. Chiarelli could redeem himself by not signing any of these players that might appear.
    Last edited by envaneo; 11-11-2018 at 09:44 PM.
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  7. #207
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    4 zip after 2. I shut it off, I’ll see what happened tomorrow. Too tired.

  8. #208
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    Its 4-1. Let me guess Cam Talbot in in net?

    The Cult of Hockey podcast was suggesting putting Lucic on the PK. Since I didn't watch tonight's game did they do that?
    Last edited by envaneo; 11-11-2018 at 10:24 PM.
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    I think Koskinen should start in net Tuesday.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  10. #210
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    ^ Thanks for the answer. I'll take 500 hockey......for now.
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    ....or, will he lose his confidence after being with this org for a while. Somethings gotta give pretty soon, but I’m not sure what it’s going to be.

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    A tough situation because we have some things clicking here and there, but inconsistency prevails. For me, that has to fall on the coach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    A tough situation because we have some things clicking here and there, but inconsistency prevails. For me, that has to fall on the coach.
    For me the problem with the team falls on the GM. Year 4 and still no one to consistantly play with Connor, major fail. No attempt to replace Sekera on defence, major fail. Trading our assests for players of much lesser ability, major fail. The GM should be gone.

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    I don't disagree, but that generally is a later in the season move...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Lucic may have a one-way contract so he can't be sent down.
    That's not how "one-way" contracts work. All one-way vs. two-way means is that there's a different salary between the AHL or NHL. What would come in to play though is waivers, as veterans are almost always required to clear waivers prior to being re-assigned to the AHL. However, it's doubtful any team would put in a claim for Lucic, given his boat anchor of a contract. So if he cleared waivers, he would have no choice other than to report, otherwise he'd be in violation of his contract and the team would suspend him.

    However, for one, most of his contract would remain with the Oilers in terms of cap hit. Only the first 975k, or thereabouts, comes off the cap hit. Second, it would be yet another huge black mark on the organization, making it an even less desirable destination for established players. This is an organization that cannot afford to sully itself further in that respect. Players pay attention to this kind of thing, and would feel that the organization was disrespecting Lucic by sending him down to the minors.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo
    Do we know for sure if Lucic has a one way contract?


    There is zero chance he has a 2-way contract. No veteran player with any negotiating power would take a contract with a much lower AHL salary, because it makes them that much easier to bury in the minors. And as we saw with the ridiculously inflated contract that he signed, Lucic appeared to have all the negotiating power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    Yes, no movement, they cannot send him down.


    Thanks Doug, forgot about that aspect. "No move" clauses have also become common, and are a step further than "no trade" clauses, which wouldn't necessarily preclude an organization from sending a player down with one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo
    No buyout either.


    All contracts can be bought out. But if the contract was mostly signing bonus money, as Lucic's was, he'll still get all of his money and the organization would save nothing on the cap. So it's fairly pointless to buy him out, unless the relationship has become so toxic between the player and organization that they would be willing to just pay him to go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    For me the problem with the team falls on the GM. Year 4 and still no one to consistantly play with Connor, major fail. No attempt to replace Sekera on defence, major fail. Trading our assests for players of much lesser ability, major fail. The GM should be gone.


    Agreed. McLellan is doing the best he can with an incredibly mediocre lineup. Changing the coach isn't going to instantly get them a PP quarterback, a 3rd pairing of D that should even be in the league and wingers who can score.

    What really needs to happen is for all upper management to be fired, including every single last former Oiler that has had any decision making authority or input in the last decade. All of them. Then Bob Nicholson should secure a written guarantee from Katz and his circle that they will not interfere with any day to day operations of the team, and bring in a new GM/President of Hockey Operations who will build his own staff out with no interference from ownership.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 12-11-2018 at 11:09 AM.

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I think it's both. No movement, and can't send him down. No buyout either.
    Talk about Chiarelli putting all his eggs (Licic) in one basket. Most likely PC doesn't decide this all by himself. Yes, we all are prone to make poor decisions in life (my hand goes up first) but ultimately we pay for these poor decisions we make at some point. We're not talking about getting a Pizza order wrong. Somebody needs to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying on Lucic.
    I love Lucic. Even when I hated him, I loved him.

    Seemed like a good idea at the time, I suppose, but I'm not sure what they expected from a guy who was already past his peak. Chiarelli looked at him, and saw the guy that played for him years earlier, in a much different league.

    It's hard to watch a real warrior fade. All the heart in the world, but he can't will himself to keep up to the speed of a game that's moved on.

    A lot of teams have one or two bad contracts like that. It's tough on everybody.
    But the game has changed as well and the speed and temp. Even back on the Kings Lucic looked slow to me, and on a Kings lineup that desperately needed more tempo. Lucic can't get to enough plays anymore, not to enough forechecks to effectively sustain offense. Even with Draisaitl he was unable to do this. I watched the Kings last night, man are they dead. They all look slower this year, Carter, Kopitar etal look done. kovalchuk is the only player on that team that looks good. They're just dead. every play I dead because they no longer have the legs. it happens. Time for a drastic rebuild in LA. Oilers should stay tuned this season for any pickups.
    Why, so the Oilers get LA's excess baggage? Not to mention contracts the above names dropped above would command. You have just mentioned one such player Oilers already have in the current line up. Why would the Oilers (or any team) pick up these types of players to have more of what Oilers already have? This would be epic folly on
    Chiarelli's already tainted career in signing such players. Chiarelli could redeem himself by not signing any of these players that might appear.
    Kempe and Iafallo show promise, but I doubt the Kings would be interested. But they have given up multiple prospect players so who knows. Even taking a flyer on the Kovalchuk contract would be good. I have no idea why the Oilers didn't go hard for him in the first place. He's older, but he's still got game.


    I would not touch Carter at this point, or Doughty. We can't afford Kopitar. But Toffoli, Martinez would be potential adds. Muzzin would be exactly what we need.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Lucic may have a one-way contract so he can't be sent down.
    That's not how "one-way" contracts work. All one-way vs. two-way means is that there's a different salary between the AHL or NHL. What would come in to play though is waivers, as veterans are almost always required to clear waivers prior to being re-assigned to the AHL. However, it's doubtful any team would put in a claim for Lucic, given his boat anchor of a contract. So if he cleared waivers, he would have no choice other than to report, otherwise he'd be in violation of his contract and the team would suspend him.

    However, for one, most of his contract would remain with the Oilers in terms of cap hit. Only the first 975k, or thereabouts, comes off the cap hit. Second, it would be yet another huge black mark on the organization, making it an even less desirable destination for established players. This is an organization that cannot afford to sully itself further in that respect. Players pay attention to this kind of thing, and would feel that the organization was disrespecting Lucic by sending him down to the minors.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo
    Do we know for sure if Lucic has a one way contract?


    There is zero chance he has a 2-way contract. No veteran player with any negotiating power would take a contract with a much lower AHL salary, because it makes them that much easier to bury in the minors. And as we saw with the ridiculously inflated contract that he signed, Lucic appeared to have all the negotiating power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    Yes, no movement, they cannot send him down.


    Thanks Doug, forgot about that aspect. "No move" clauses have also become common, and are a step further than "no trade" clauses, which wouldn't necessarily preclude an organization from sending a player down with one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo
    No buyout either.


    All contracts can be bought out. But if the contract was mostly signing bonus money, as Lucic's was, he'll still get all of his money and the organization would save nothing on the cap. So it's fairly pointless to buy him out, unless the relationship has become so toxic between the player and organization that they would be willing to just pay him to go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    For me the problem with the team falls on the GM. Year 4 and still no one to consistantly play with Connor, major fail. No attempt to replace Sekera on defence, major fail. Trading our assests for players of much lesser ability, major fail. The GM should be gone.


    Agreed. McLellan is doing the best he can with an incredibly mediocre lineup. Changing the coach isn't going to instantly get them a PP quarterback, a 3rd pairing of D that should even be in the league and wingers who can score.

    What really needs to happen is for all upper management to be fired, including every single last former Oiler that has had any decision making authority or input in the last decade. All of them. Then Bob Nicholson should secure a written guarantee from Katz and his circle that they will not interfere with any day to day operations of the team, and bring in a new GM/President of Hockey Operations who will build his own staff out with no interference from ownership.
    I would let all of the management go but Keith Gretzky. He has done a really good job at the draft table the last few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ...
    I would not touch Carter at this point, or Doughty. We can't afford Kopitar. But Toffoli, Martinez would be potential adds. Muzzin would be exactly what we need.
    I don't understand what's going on with Jeff Carter. He has all the tools - big, fast, great skater, good puck handler, great shot. Maybe it's just time, and all the injuries have added up.

    LA are in tough, with Campbell going down, and Quick out.

    Muzzin would be nice, but can't see them giving him up. But as you point out, stranger things have happened.

    Second straight year Chiarelli has failed to address a fairly long term injury to a key defenceman. Admitted it was mistake last year, then does it again. ???
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    ^ I like your style.

    @Marcel......Ok if Lucic got sent to the minors his salary would follow him, wouldn't it? He's still in the Oilers orginzation. He's still under contract.

    I agree with the Cult of Hockey's last podcast play Lucic on defence. I know its a whole different skill set.
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    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.

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    On the positive side, the Oilers play in the weakest division in the league. Have they played any games against division rivals?

    I think they played Vegas. Don't remember if there was another.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 12-11-2018 at 05:48 PM.
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    There's a bunch of divisional games coming up here.

    @Marcel......Ok if Lucic got sent to the minors his salary would follow him, wouldn't it? He's still in the Oilers orginzation. He's still under contract.
    No, it doesn't. I clearly stated that only the first 975k comes off the team's salary cap. Call it the Wade Redden Rule. You can't bury expensive contracts in the minors since they last renegotiated the CBA.

  23. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.
    Two weeks ago my opinion was the winning results were unsustainable because the Oilers were having to outwork other clubs just to get close wins, and multiple of them in OT. This is not a pattern for sustained success and the Oilers entirely lack any scoring depth and so that the same players are having to out there and bang results every game. Most teams have better depth. The past 4 clubs we've played have much better depth. The Oilers team has 3 players on it that scored more than 12 goals last season. That is frankly disgusting.

    These results, and where this team is at, is all On Chiarelli. What good players do we have that he brought in without enormous cost (Hall for Larsson) Even the useless players he brought in here like Strome for Eberle or acquiring Lucic for 6M were horrible deals. The best players he's brought in at no appreciable cost is Maroon, now gone, and Talbot, who is not looking as good anymore.

    This is a bad roster put together by a bad GM. The team had better assets when he got it.
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    And when good players are available they never get them, for what ever reason.

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    Yup. The Oilers can't acquire a single right shot top 4 defenseman without a massive overpay in Hall for Larsson, yet Calgary's done it three times in the last few years with fairly reasonable/fair deals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.
    Two weeks ago my opinion was the winning results were unsustainable because the Oilers were having to outwork other clubs just to get close wins, and multiple of them in OT. This is not a pattern for sustained success and the Oilers entirely lack any scoring depth and so that the same players are having to out there and bang results every game. Most teams have better depth. The past 4 clubs we've played have much better depth. The Oilers team has 3 players on it that scored more than 12 goals last season. That is frankly disgusting.

    These results, and where this team is at, is all On Chiarelli. What good players do we have that he brought in without enormous cost (Hall for Larsson) Even the useless players he brought in here like Strome for Eberle or acquiring Lucic for 6M were horrible deals. The best players he's brought in at no appreciable cost is Maroon, now gone, and Talbot, who is not looking as good anymore.

    This is a bad roster put together by a bad GM. The team had better assets when he got it.

    I'm not saying this is a cup winning team, and that for sure PC has made a couple poor trades/contracts, but this isn't all on his feet.

    In 2016/2017 the Oilers had a check first mentality, and it carried pretty much through most of the season, and guess what? They ended up in the playoffs, So don't tell me playing the right way...playing the system is not sustainable. Many good teams do it year after year. Many Oilers players had success in this season, and a large number of those players still exist on the team in 2018/2019.

    In 2017/2018 they didn't bother with the check first mentality, and often tried to cheat for offense. Basically they abandoned the system, and look where they were at. Sure Talbot did not have a strong year, but he was also facing more higher % shots against from in the slot too. Many players also struggled to score, as the forwards and defense would get spread out too much, as the forwards were trying to cheat for offense, but this actually works against them, as teams can clog up the neutral zone, or forecheck in the Oilers zone, as the Defense don't have as many good outlet passes.

    In 2018/2019 so far we've seen both sides of the coin. They've given up the first goal in a number of games now, and it seems that once that happens, they try to cheat for offense again, but in most cases this just doesn't work, as teams know how to counter it. From here, they are in chase mode, and rather than sticking with the system, they take more risk offensively, and from here it snowballs with generally going down by two or three in short order.

    There is no question that the team could use some tweaks here and there player wise, but I don't buy for a second that they are as bad we've seen basically all of last year, and some of this year. And while I do question some of McLellan's coaching decisions, I do believe he is trying everything in his power to get them playing the right way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.
    Two weeks ago my opinion was the winning results were unsustainable because the Oilers were having to outwork other clubs just to get close wins, and multiple of them in OT. This is not a pattern for sustained success and the Oilers entirely lack any scoring depth and so that the same players are having to out there and bang results every game. Most teams have better depth. The past 4 clubs we've played have much better depth. The Oilers team has 3 players on it that scored more than 12 goals last season. That is frankly disgusting.

    These results, and where this team is at, is all On Chiarelli. What good players do we have that he brought in without enormous cost (Hall for Larsson) Even the useless players he brought in here like Strome for Eberle or acquiring Lucic for 6M were horrible deals. The best players he's brought in at no appreciable cost is Maroon, now gone, and Talbot, who is not looking as good anymore.

    This is a bad roster put together by a bad GM. The team had better assets when he got it.

    I'm not saying this is a cup winning team, and that for sure PC has made a couple poor trades/contracts, but this isn't all on his feet.

    In 2016/2017 the Oilers had a check first mentality, and it carried pretty much through most of the season, and guess what? They ended up in the playoffs, So don't tell me playing the right way...playing the system is not sustainable. Many good teams do it year after year. Many Oilers players had success in this season, and a large number of those players still exist on the team in 2018/2019.

    In 2017/2018 they didn't bother with the check first mentality, and often tried to cheat for offense. Basically they abandoned the system, and look where they were at. Sure Talbot did not have a strong year, but he was also facing more higher % shots against from in the slot too. Many players also struggled to score, as the forwards and defense would get spread out too much, as the forwards were trying to cheat for offense, but this actually works against them, as teams can clog up the neutral zone, or forecheck in the Oilers zone, as the Defense don't have as many good outlet passes.

    In 2018/2019 so far we've seen both sides of the coin. They've given up the first goal in a number of games now, and it seems that once that happens, they try to cheat for offense again, but in most cases this just doesn't work, as teams know how to counter it. From here, they are in chase mode, and rather than sticking with the system, they take more risk offensively, and from here it snowballs with generally going down by two or three in short order.

    There is no question that the team could use some tweaks here and there player wise, but I don't buy for a second that they are as bad we've seen basically all of last year, and some of this year. And while I do question some of McLellan's coaching decisions, I do believe he is trying everything in his power to get them playing the right way.
    The team that made the playoffs still had Eberle, Maroon, Pouliot, Hendricks, Letestu on it. Those are serviceable vets that have more quality than a lot of players we have now. The lineup was deeper then. Players we have now like Khaira, Kassian, Chiasson, Yama, Pulju, Brodz, Rattie, Lucic are not as good in respective roles. That team had more scoring support. We have to remember that essentially we have lost Lucic for whatever reason. The player we have left is a shadow. So removing Eberle, removing Lucic, that leaves a hole in topsix and it hasn't been replaced. That years team had 6 players with more than 12goals. The Oilers currently have only 3 players with 12 or more goals last season. That would be the worst scoring depth in the whole league.
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    ^ Nailed it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    I don't buy into the whole blame the GM or blame the coach thing. In fact I'm not entirely sure who to blame exactly, but I do think most of it is the mental approach to the game. Here is what I've noticed 17 games in...

    - First three games, they're playing mostly like they did last year

    - During the game against the Jets after they were getting their asses kicked, they woke up and the forwards started to back check well, and created back pressure, which in turn allowed the defense to step up and not give up the blue line as easy. This in turn caused the other team to turn the puck over, and generally the Oilers were then coming back as a group, and not spread out all over. This was also catching teams, and the Oilers didn't have to always come the full 200 feet, and try to get through the other team's neutral zone forecheck. This trend continued while they were getting their wins.

    - Since the game in Washington, the back pressure wasn't the same as it was before, it was night and day how much easier it was for Washington to routinely enter the zone. The Oilers Dmen were forced to backup and give up the blue line since they didn't have the support from the forwards. This was also feeding into the Oilers offence as well, but I don't think its any coincidence that the offense has dried up the same time they "abandonded" with the team defense. Since they routinely have to break out from their own end almost every change of possession, they have to get through the neutral zone forecheck, and are typically spread out too much to allow for supportive short passes on the rush, which is what the Oilers are good at. Basically the forwards are cheating for offense, by not coming back to support the Dmen.

    In 2016/2017, the Oilers generally played with good back pressure most of the season, but last year, in combination with shaky goaltending, and special teams, is why they never even got a sniff at the playoffs. So far we've seen both sides of the coin, and its pretty evident when the team has success, and when they don't.
    Two weeks ago my opinion was the winning results were unsustainable because the Oilers were having to outwork other clubs just to get close wins, and multiple of them in OT. This is not a pattern for sustained success and the Oilers entirely lack any scoring depth and so that the same players are having to out there and bang results every game. Most teams have better depth. The past 4 clubs we've played have much better depth. The Oilers team has 3 players on it that scored more than 12 goals last season. That is frankly disgusting.

    These results, and where this team is at, is all On Chiarelli. What good players do we have that he brought in without enormous cost (Hall for Larsson) Even the useless players he brought in here like Strome for Eberle or acquiring Lucic for 6M were horrible deals. The best players he's brought in at no appreciable cost is Maroon, now gone, and Talbot, who is not looking as good anymore.

    This is a bad roster put together by a bad GM. The team had better assets when he got it.

    I'm not saying this is a cup winning team, and that for sure PC has made a couple poor trades/contracts, but this isn't all on his feet.

    In 2016/2017 the Oilers had a check first mentality, and it carried pretty much through most of the season, and guess what? They ended up in the playoffs, So don't tell me playing the right way...playing the system is not sustainable. Many good teams do it year after year. Many Oilers players had success in this season, and a large number of those players still exist on the team in 2018/2019.

    In 2017/2018 they didn't bother with the check first mentality, and often tried to cheat for offense. Basically they abandoned the system, and look where they were at. Sure Talbot did not have a strong year, but he was also facing more higher % shots against from in the slot too. Many players also struggled to score, as the forwards and defense would get spread out too much, as the forwards were trying to cheat for offense, but this actually works against them, as teams can clog up the neutral zone, or forecheck in the Oilers zone, as the Defense don't have as many good outlet passes.

    In 2018/2019 so far we've seen both sides of the coin. They've given up the first goal in a number of games now, and it seems that once that happens, they try to cheat for offense again, but in most cases this just doesn't work, as teams know how to counter it. From here, they are in chase mode, and rather than sticking with the system, they take more risk offensively, and from here it snowballs with generally going down by two or three in short order.

    There is no question that the team could use some tweaks here and there player wise, but I don't buy for a second that they are as bad we've seen basically all of last year, and some of this year. And while I do question some of McLellan's coaching decisions, I do believe he is trying everything in his power to get them playing the right way.
    The team that made the playoffs still had Eberle, Maroon, Pouliot, Hendricks, Letestu on it. Those are serviceable vets that have more quality than a lot of players we have now. The lineup was deeper then. Players we have now like Khaira, Kassian, Chiasson, Yama, Pulju, Brodz, Rattie, Lucic are not as good in respective roles. That team had more scoring support. We have to remember that essentially we have lost Lucic for whatever reason. The player we have left is a shadow. So removing Eberle, removing Lucic, that leaves a hole in topsix and it hasn't been replaced. That years team had 6 players with more than 12goals. The Oilers currently have only 3 players with 12 or more goals last season. That would be the worst scoring depth in the whole league.
    You don't think that playing the system, and having a team commitment to defense first contributed to the 2016/2017 team and individual success? Have you been watching the games, or just observing the scoreboard/highlights to form this one dimensional opinion? We've seen over the last decade and more that you can bring in all the different players you want, but unless the team plays the system, individual and team success likely won't be there. Then also look at all the players that leave and go elsewhere and thrive.

    Again, I'm not saying that there aren't holes in the lineup, but I'm also saying its not just a simple plug a better player in the hole, and everything will magically be better. Until the group decides they need to play the system night in, night out, they will continue to struggle.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Nailed it.
    No offense, but given your history of posts on the Oilers, your opinion doesn't carry much weight.

  30. #230

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    ^
    Talbot was incredible pretty much all of 16-17. that masked some deficiencies. But the team had guys like Pouliot, Lander, Hendricks who were pretty responsible defensively. Kassian was looking for somewhere to land and so had a solid year. Add in guys like Purcell who we just don't have in the lineup today and of course the absence of Eberle, Maroon, Lucic. This years team is a pale imitation of the depth found on that team. We had a bottomsix that season that would rarely get scored against because they were all solid vets. Even guys like Pakarinen were rocks defensively. Lander very under rated in that regard. Team had Letestu as well. We really haven't replaced much of that. Instead we have Rattie and Rieder as helpful additions. But we lost so many players that were helpful.

    You don't win with 3 offensive players and pretty much a mediocre lineup after that. No team does. Theres 8 players on our roster this year that I would not even put on an NHL club.
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    Ryan Strome traded to NYR for Ryan Spooner
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    Halleluiah! Finally.

    Eat your heart out Ryan. Sorry I couldn't resist
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    It would be great to see Spooner get back on track.
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    Both are struggling but at least Koskinen is in net for tonight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Halleluiah! Finally.

    Eat your heart out Ryan. Sorry I couldn't resist
    Huh?! Exactly what message are you trying to infer? A pun so to speak? Ryan for Ryan? "Eat your heart out Ryan" is a very strange comment.....please detail for the readers

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    Edo
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    the whole team is flying and then lucic gets elevated to the first line and everything dies.

    two goals since last december - that’s what, 2 1/2 million a goal? - and he’s on the ice with the goalie pulled in the last minute of the game and the team having blown a 2 goal lead to be down a goal?

    in coaching terms that’s like kicking a field goal in the dying minutes from inside the 30 on first down when you’re down by 10.
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    They almost had to because Connor was getting roughed up so bad. Would have been good to still have Maroon. A very good game to watch despite the loss. Don’t you just hate them Flames.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 18-11-2018 at 12:20 AM.

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    Spooner is an awful 200ft player. One of the worst. Butter soft player, lost the Calgary scorer right in front of the net watching him get multiple whacks at the winning goal. its why you can't have this guy in the lineup. Boston already realized that, NYR already realized that.

    Nuge line went -3 last night and the line is basically short handed with Spooner on it.

    People get seduced by the talent, but Spooner has often shown an unwillingness to accept or play the physical NHL game of hockey. He's typicaly averse to coverage, checking, marking. He's only good with the puck. When he's not giving he puck away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    the whole team is flying and then lucic gets elevated to the first line and everything dies.

    two goals since last december - that’s what, 2 1/2 million a goal? - and he’s on the ice with the goalie pulled in the last minute of the game and the team having blown a 2 goal lead to be down a goal?

    in coaching terms that’s like kicking a field goal in the dying minutes from inside the 30 on first down when you’re down by 10.
    Given how much cold water Lucic was able to thrown on McD and Drai, and completely stymie any rush attempt or offense (I stopped counting at 10, the amount of times Lucic misplayed/ mispassed on the transition rush) a question has to be asked how thoroughly Lucic various players. Indeed we have Puljujarvi sent to Bakersfield. Strome traded off to NY. But Lucic seems to be the cooler. He's the one that freezes the offense. He did that even to the best players last night.

    How were Strome and Pulju supposed to tow Lucic around if McD and Drai can't even do it.

    The simplest deduction is Lucic has long ceased to be an actual serviceable NHL player. maybe could be used on a 4th line.

    The dynamic though, is that Lucic is Chia's man, his main get. The guy he felt could "replace some of the Hall offense" of course that is and was catastrophic judgement but it seems were stuck pounding Lucic into round holes as long as Chia exists here. although I'm not sure how even a new GM would get rid of this albatross contract, and player. That the team, and any line Lucic is on is WORSE through his addition is shockingly bad. That he's making 6M to be this is indescribable.
    Last edited by Replacement; 18-11-2018 at 08:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    They almost had to because Connor was getting roughed up so bad. Would have been good to still have Maroon. A very good game to watch despite the loss. Don’t you just hate them Flames.
    connor was holding his own quite nicely and draisaitl was on fire. lucic was may more effective at stifling that than the entire calgary team.

    the oilers played better and more productively when short handed than they did with lucic on the ice. calgary should have paid his salary for the impact he had on last night’s game.

    the first two periods were great to watch, the third was just painful unless you’re a flames fan. if he’s so great in the dressing room, maybe they could just leave him there?
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    That was some damn exciting hockeying though - felt like a playoff game. The Oilers looked like they knew how to get out of the defensive zone with something resembling a breakout. Draisaitl was putting on a clinic.

    Tier one Calgary fans were satisfyingly vocal.

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    The Oil are right back at it tonight vs Vegas. Talbot is back in net, let's hope he doesn't crap the bed.
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    The obvious problem is that they don't come out of their own zone as a unit. The D plays catch for a while and never make a good pass to move up ice and enter the opposition zone cleanly. You see hacking out to center, hacking into the zone, but no clean passes (McDavid excepted 'cause he's super-human). Occasionally they resort to an alley-oop flip pass - this particularly bugs me... it's like a professional tennis player serving under-handed.

    This is a coaching problem. Just like all their systems (PP, PK) being mediocre is a coaching problem.

    I'm not a millionaire so I haven't seen a game in person for decades so I have to watch on TV... I don't see what's going on north of our blue line. Maybe someone who goes to the game could comment - are all the other eight skaters all packed between center and along the opposition blue line?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    That was some damn exciting hockeying though - felt like a playoff game. The Oilers looked like they knew how to get out of the defensive zone with something resembling a breakout. Draisaitl was putting on a clinic.

    Tier one Calgary fans were satisfyingly vocal.

    Draisaitl is like a break out machine on this team. There isn't one, but he carves it out and so often makes something out of errant passes, poor schemes and poor PMD.
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    What a game!
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    Oilers... seriously?
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Oilers... seriously?
    What?
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    Just looking at stats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    The Oil are right back at it tonight vs Vegas. Talbot is back in net, let's hope he doesn't crap the bed.
    ...but he did
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    Does Oilers coach Todd McLellan have a death wish or something? Every time he puts Cam Talbot in net its a disaster. One more disaster to end his coaching tenure with the Oilers. This is a terrible, terrible team. At least wrestling was more entertaining then the VGK/Oilers.
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    How much longer can Todd survive? He was on shaky grounds to begin with.
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    ^ Not that Koskinen was much better last night with the Flames but the Flames got an assist by the on ice officials.
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    Vegas is good. They have good shots. Is this six losses in the last seven? Tough road trip coming up. Back into the smoke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    How much longer can Todd survive? He was on shaky grounds to begin with.
    They have to do something soon. Connor was trying so hard tonight. I felt sorry for him. Don’t get mad at me but nights like this I wish he was playing on a talented team. Poor guy. ( not poor moneywise)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    How much longer can Todd survive? He was on shaky grounds to begin with.
    I find myself cheering against the Oilers now. One win in their last seven games... three more and TM will go for sure. Waiting till after Christmas to make the inevitable coaching change will just waste another season.

    Look at this: Todd McLellan: Coaching Lessons in How to Get Fired

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    They lost 3 games in 4 nights, 2 of which were against top teams. Everybody needs to relax.
    Smart post, good advice. Accepted and received
    Ok I'm ready to consider falling into panic now.

    There were possible other explanations before. Now it's pretty clear the coach has lost the room, and it's been clear for over a season that the GM isn't the builder for this particular job.

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    Daryl Katz, please step up to the plate now. A changing of the guards is required.

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    I really think it's shortsighted to say that the Oilers' woes are all or even mostly on coaching. The fact is, the lineup stinks. Outside of McDavid, Draisatl, Klefbom, Nurse, RNH and Larsson it is not a good team. Unfortunately, those guys can only be on the ice for around half the game, and they outperform the opposition. But the rest of the team is putrid and get's absolutely destroyed. It is an extremely poorly constructed lineup, and no coaching can change that.

    That being said, McLellan hasn't done himself any favors I don't think. But the majority of the blame for the team's performance this season and last falls upon the GM and ownership for the incredibly boneheaded moves they made in the afterglow of McDavid's first season and then the extensions that followed the year after. The Hall/Larsson trade, the Lucic signing, the Eberle/Strome trade, Russell's extension and Leon's extension were all boneheaded moves. The two trades never should have happened, and the cap space they freed up was spent irresponsibly on a brutal signing (Lucic), a fairly significant overpay for an otherwise good player (Draisatl) and a massive overpay for a 3rd pairing defenseman (Russell).

    PC can't figure out how to acquire a RHD that can get 25+ points and signs 3rd pairing guys who get 15 points to 4m/4yr contracts, but meanwhile Calgary trades for 30-40 point RHD like it's going out of style and signs them to long term 5m contracts. Gee, I wonder why the Oilers can't win?

    Yost's numbers don't lie: https://www.tsn.ca/top-heavy-oilers-...live-1.1212099

    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 19-11-2018 at 10:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    ...

    PC can't figure out how to acquire a RHD that can get 25+ points and signs 3rd pairing guys who get 15 points to 4m/4yr contracts, but meanwhile Calgary trades for 30-40 point RHD like it's going out of style and signs them to long term 5m contracts. Gee, I wonder why the Oilers can't win?
    On a related note, Jeff Petry is 8th in NHL D scoring (ahead of Subban), and eating up minutes playing #1 D as he covers for the Shea Weber injury.

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    What MacT did with Petry and Schultz is a very, very big part of where the Oilers are now as well. Still cashing an Oilers cheque, with a brief interruption and a couple title changes along the way.

    Had they not decided that Petry was "soft" and disposable and then thrown a 23 year old Schultz to the wolves for 25 minutes a night, the organization would have two pretty decent right shot D. No need to trade Hall for Larsson. No room to throw an idiotic contract offer to Lucic. And on it goes. Although you could make an argument that if they didn't botch Petry and Schultz so badly they wouldn't have won the right to draft McDavid.

    But the simple truth is that the organization has been an unmitigated disaster for the past 10+ years, and while we were told that there was a big change ~3 years ago, it never truly happened. And the results show it.

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    Gregor lays much the same argument out here: https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-105...ound-1.1212332

    As do other TSN people:

    https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/dreger-...lellan~1543674

    https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/who-sho...s-woes~1543675

    Honestly, it's to the point where Katz should make a commitment to the fans that he will put the team in a blind trust and never touch it again.

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    As long as people keep throwing money at him why would Katz do anything?

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    They have a lot of renewals on three year terms for various club and box seating options this Spring. If they miss the playoffs again, a lot of businesses and individuals are going to walk away from tickets or reduce their investment. Agreed, they haven't had to do a lot to earn their business since Katz bought the team, but that's not guaranteed to continue. A lot of people are getting sick of the continued incompetence on the part of management.

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    Most Loge Seats were on three year licences such as ours. Lots of people don't think it's worth it to re-up.

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    Looks like Mclellan might be on his way out. Dreger reporting that Hitchcock will be replacing him.

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    Interesting. I would have expected they elevate one of the assistants. But on the other hand, it probably makes sense to have someone like Hitchcock as the interim for this season and the new GM will hire someone next summer. PC should be out on the street as well, and likely will be by then.

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    I would concur with your assessment Marcel. That said, I have always liked Hitch and look forward to seeing what he does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post

    Too bad.

    Coilers are a barrel of laughs for Top_Dawg.

    Coilers should have canned TM November of last year.

    Anyways, second overall for the good guys.

    And running a four game win streak.

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    As for the MakeBeLeafs, "The Jim Pappin Curse" continues. Met him last winter in Palm Desert at the College of the Desert Flea Market!!

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    Interesting. Feel bad for TM, but agree that Hitch is what this festering pile of under-achievers needs right now.
    ... gobsmacked

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    The good news is that firing McLellan is essentially Chiarelli's last card to play. I fully expect him to be toast in the off-season. With the line-up below going in SJ, I don't think Hitchcock or anyone else can turn the current team into anything resembling a contender. The forward group below the top line is outright embarrassing.

    From Jack Michaels, lines at practice this morning:

    Caggiula-McDavid-Draisaitl
    Spooner-RNH-Chiasson
    Lucic-Marody-Rattie
    Khaira-Brodziak-Kassian

    Klefbom-Larsson
    Nurse-Russell
    Gravel-Benning

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW
    essentially Chiarelli's last card to play.


    Oh, I think you underestimate what he's capable of! He may well try to pull off a big trade as well, and I shudder to think what that might look like. I won't even speculate, for fear of giving him some bad ideas.

    As far as that lineup goes, it's pathetic. You could make an easy argument that half of their forwards and their 3rd pairing should not even be in the NHL.

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    Isn't that a near salary cap line-up?

    I hope that Chiarelli has to get his trades approved so that he can get fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW
    essentially Chiarelli's last card to play.


    Oh, I think you underestimate what he's capable of! He may well try to pull off a big trade as well, and I shudder to think what that might look like. I won't even speculate, for fear of giving him some bad ideas.

    As far as that lineup goes, it's pathetic. You could make an easy argument that half of their forwards and their 3rd pairing should not even be in the NHL.
    The thought of Chia making a big move at the deadline to make one last playoff push and try to save his job truly horrifies me.

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    With Sekera on LTR they're about 6m under the limit (their cap space goes up with Sekera on LTR: https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/oilers). So close enough, they're pretty much capped when Sekera comes back in a month or two.

    Let's add up the overpays (numbers below are what they're overpaid, roughly speaking, it's subjective):

    Draisatl - 1m
    Russell - 1.5m
    Koskinen - 1m
    Kassian - 1m
    Sekera - 1m
    Caggiula - 0.5m (what has he done or proved in the NHL to deserve anything more than 4th line dollars, exactly?)
    Lucic - 4m

    So roughly 10% of their cap space is on overpays. At least! It was always going to be a top heavy lineup with the money committed to McDavid and Draisatl, but you can argue that combined their salaries and point production are fair value. McDavid is underpaid roughly what Draisatl is overpaid. The problem is when you have millions of dollars thrown at 4th liners/3rd pairing D/back-up goalies.

    And let's not forget that they'll still have Pouliot's buyout on the books this year and TWO MORE for 1.33m. Why they didn't just let him play out the last year of his contract is beyond me. His production in Buffalo last year was on par with Caggiula, Kassian, Khaira, Cammaleri, Letestu etc. Sure he'd have been overpaid, but at least they wouldn't have 3 years of buyout penalty going forward. They were well below the cap last year, because of PC's genius plan to lay in the weeds and load up at the trade deadline for a playoff run. The problem with Pouliot was signing him in the first place. Then they just compounded it by buying him out in a season where they didn't need the cap space.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 20-11-2018 at 01:47 PM.

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    + Gryba's $300k/yr buyout for the next 2 years (which is still a head-scratcher)

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    Only the Oilers could draft McDavid and possibly fail to contend for a Stanley Cup for his entire career here. The blame lies with the GM, and, by extension, the owner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    Only the Oilers could draft McDavid and possibly fail to contend for a Stanley Cup for his entire career here. The blame lies with the GM, and, by extension, the owner.
    God, that would be so sad! Let's hope it doesn't come to this!

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    Should have fired him at the end of last season. Then the new coach would have his systems in place. As it is, it's going to take a while to get the assistant coaches and the players tuned in. The consensus in the media is that Hitch is a good man to help with the Oiler's weakness - defense, getting the forwards to back-check, get the puck, and get up the ice. Hope so.

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    Hitch will coach until end of the season. After that, they will either sign him for a longer term or promote Gully.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by OJR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    Only the Oilers could draft McDavid and possibly fail to contend for a Stanley Cup for his entire career here. The blame lies with the GM, and, by extension, the owner.
    God, that would be so sad! Let's hope it doesn't come to this!
    I was willing to give Katz the benefit of the doubt when he shook up the club management hiring Nicholson, Chiarelli, Mclellan. These are all good hockey minds but obviously the Old Boys Club is still in the mix and until those ties are broken I see no hope for the franchise.

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    Chiarelli isn't a good hockey mind, unfortunately.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

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    While I may disagree with them, most of the moves Chiarelli has made had some good reason behind it. Maybe not the Reinhardt deal. Lucic was signed to keep teams from taking liberties. Also expected to be an immovable net front presence. There were many indications he was in decline, but maybe Chiarelli was signing the guy who used to play for him, rather than the guy he had become.

    The Oilers have presented a few unique challenges. For many years the team wasn't built to succeed in the Pacific "heavy hockey" division. The Playoffs (long just a dream) tended to reward heavy hockey. Both of those things changed pretty fast. When Oil finally addressed the issue, tried to match up better in Pacific, and went heavier, the league went quick and fast.

    All of those high draft picks meant the team wasn't addressing problem areas, and by default ended up with forwards when they really could have used a #1 D.

    Hall trade was as much about handing over the reins to McDavid as it was addressing severe shortcomings on D. Larsson looked great on paper, but fact is he was paired with Andy Greene, one of the elite D in the league, long overlooked and under-rated. Hall only showed flashes of the player he's become.

    And it's been obvious for years that there are (at least) two tiers on the team. Hall was definitely part of that.

    We should also consider the fundamentally flawed player development processes.

    And the way Lowe treated the situation with Sheldon Souray wasn't lost on players around the league, especially defencemen. That kind of "we'll show him who's boss" didn't sit well with a lot of people in and around the league. It took Don Cherry calling them out on HNIC to get the Oilers brass to do anything about it. That takes a lot of overcome, and it hung over the Oilers for years after, with nobody wanting to come here. If that's how you treat a "local" product, ... . I think it set the Oilers back for years.

    Similar to last year's start, the Oilers are finding new ways to lose every game. When you're losing different ways maybe it's pointing to the uncomfortable fact they may not have the ponies.

    When they win a couple in a row they get overconfident. Same when they go up early. As if they thought it would be easy. Then they get beat, badly, and lose all confidence. Too many ups and downs. Bad stretches will happen, but good ones need to happen too, and should be the norm.

    We need to accept the hard truth that the best moves this organization made over a decade were ditching seasons to get high picks. Anybody can lose, as strategies go. They never learned how to win. They thought they knew, but clearly did not. The arrogance in the face of disaster after disaster season was stunning.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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    Good post Jimbo.

    PC has made dubious decisions... but explain to me why good players become bad players when they get traded to the Oilers, or vice-versa. And the team is so inconsistent. This is a coaching problem.

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    First win under Hitchcock tonight. McJesus continues to walk on water.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I have a good feeling about this.

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    This team's future is not safe until Chiarelli is fired.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    This team's future is not safe until Chiarelli is fired.
    hopefully part of hitchcock's contract gives him veto power over any trades...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    At Anaheim in an afternoon game will be a real test. Under McClellan the team was never consistent and didn't play with intensity every shift. We'll see what happens with Hitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by K364 View Post
    Good post Jimbo.

    PC has made dubious decisions... but explain to me why good players become bad players when they get traded to the Oilers, or vice-versa. And the team is so inconsistent. This is a coaching problem.
    No, it really isn't. This is the kind of myth/story-making that people do in their minds to rationalize their opinion that it's all about coaching. The team has had 8 coaches in 10 years. Was every single one of them a horrendous coach? If so, then management also needs to answer for hiring a string of incompetent coaches. Cite me some specific examples of players who cratered when they get to Edmonton and I'll show you players who were signed or traded for after unsustainable seasons and/or on the downslope of their careers. Show me a player that improved after they left the team, and most often it'll be a player who goes to a better team where the weight of the world isn't on their shoulders every shift because the team actually has mid-career veteran depth, as opposed to all washed-up veterans or fresh faced rookies with nothing in between. There's some unique cases like Dubnyk, but that was 100% on the GM at the time (MacT) for stating publicly that he didn't feel he was a starting goalie.

    Todd McLellan prior to coming to Edmonton was a very respected head NHL coach. To the point that San Jose didn't technically fire him when he left. Both sides felt things had gone stale and it was time to move on after a long stint. Did he suddenly totally forget how to coach on the flight North? Todd Nelson has continued to be a respected NHL head-coach in waiting. Ralph Krueger was so respected in the sporting world that they made him Chairman of Southampton FC. Dallas Eakins definitely soiled his reputation to some extent because of his massive ego and arrogance, but he's back to being a respected AHL coach that will likely be back in the NHL at some point. Quinn was done as a coach and should never have been hired in the first place. The one common thread between all those coaches is that they were all handed crap lineups with inadequate D, shaky goaltending, and up until 29/97 a complete lack of centers outside of RNH.

    Scotty Bowman in his heyday would have struggled to do much better than what the string of coaches in Edmonton have done in the past 10 years, because management has continually failed to provide a competitive lineup or properly manage assets. And that has continued to this very day. At what point will Katz learn that he is bad at running a hockey team, and so are his Boys on the Bus, and that he and they need to stay the hell out of it?
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 21-11-2018 at 03:46 PM.

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    Good points Marcel. We'll see what Hitch can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K364 View Post
    At Anaheim in an afternoon game will be a real test. Under McClellan the team was never consistent and didn't play with intensity every shift. We'll see what happens with Hitch
    Some people I know were suggesting Hitchcock will be a temp (left of the season coach) and another more permanent coach would be hired in the off season. I heard the name Quenneville tossed around. Yeah right.
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    2020 6th round draft pick traded to the Sens for RD Chris Wideman, same pick that was acquired for Jakub Jerabuk.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    At first I thought it was the guy that nailed the official in Calgary but that was Dennis

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    Don’t forget the Oilers play Anaheim at 2:00 PM today mst
    Last edited by Drumbones; 23-11-2018 at 12:27 AM.

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    The oilers had the game with just a few seconds left but somehow managed to blow it and lose.

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    It's a formula: Step 1 - Put Lucic out in the last minute or more Step 2. - When the other wins a face-off in OT get McDavid deep and then focus on Draisaitl when you attack. Worked like a charm....

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Interesting. Feel bad for TM, but agree that Hitch is what this festering pile of under-achievers needs right now.
    Concur. A very under performing ,VERY well paid group. We as paying fans deserve WAY better.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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