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Thread: Canada Arrests Senior Huawei Executive at Request of US

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    Default Canada Arrests Senior Huawei Executive at Request of US

    It's not often that an action by Canadian authorities is leading newscasts everywhere in the world. So thought this deserved its own thread.

    Obviously Canada's decision to arrest the daughter of Huawei's founder for possible extradition to the United States is causing waves around the world, most of all in China.

    It is hard to overstate the symbolism and significance of this event. Huawei is the crown jewel of Chinese tech and Ms Meng is effectively its princess.

    Even though it's still not clear what the charges against her are, this is not simply a case about the arrest of one woman, or just one company.

    This arrest could materially damage the relationship between the US and China at possibly one of the most sensitive times between the two countries in their long and torrid history.


    The gloves are off. Things have taken a dramatic turn for the worse.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46465768

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    From the Chinese People's Daily Online:
    Under the official account of the Embassy of Canada to China, a large number of internet users questioned whether Canada has gone from being a sovereign state to “America’s hired thug.” They claim that Canada has violated the human rights of a Chinese citizen and demand that the Canadian side release Meng right away.
    http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/1206/c90000-9526144.html

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    A few countries have banned Huawei, because of the way China likes to make somehting, that they can have easy access to .

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    yeah, unlike google or apple..
    you missed when time and life shook hands and said goodbye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicycles View Post
    yeah, unlike google or apple..

    I think it's exactly like them, so do we need more? Canada was warned ages ago, but little JT knows best

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    I like to know how that can be done and on what grounds? I think Canada it treading on dangerous ground since the econmic shift seem to focus in Asia now. This could hurt us in the long run.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    I expect China to arrest a Canadian tourist or two in the next couple of days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    A few countries have banned Huawei, because of the way China likes to make somehting, that they can have easy access to .
    Huawei's phones are still sold in many countries including Canada, and they recently passed Apple as the second largest mobile phone seller globally.

    A few countries have banned Huawei equipment from their telecom networks especially next gen 5G networks. That's a tad less provocative than arresting one of their top executives, especially one who is the daughter of the company founder.

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    I've always wondered whether the Chinese-made thumb drives everyone uses don't have some sort of special code that downloads one's hard drive when they get plugged in and then when one goes on the internet transmits it to China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    A few countries have banned Huawei, because of the way China likes to make somehting, that they can have easy access to .
    Huawei's phones are still sold in many countries including Canada, and they recently passed Apple as the second largest mobile phone seller globally.

    A few countries have banned Huawei equipment from their telecom networks especially next gen 5G networks. That's a tad less provocative than arresting one of their top executives, especially one who is the daughter of the company founder.
    Well you go ahead and trust,them I'm not going to. I have none of their products
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    I like to know how that can be done and on what grounds? I think Canada it treading on dangerous ground since the econmic shift seem to focus in Asia now. This could hurt us in the long run.
    i don't know any more about the specifics than what's been in the media but i'd happily wager that this wasn't the result of a phone call from someone in the u.s. to someone in canada asking for a "please arrest this lady and deport her to the u.s. for us" favour. my guess is that there are real charges in the u.s. (justified or not) that resulted in an american arrest warrant (justified or not) that was registered/filed with interpol. at that point in time, it's not optional on canada's part but to detain and deport to the u.s. if that's the case there's no real "dangerous legal ground" that canada is treading on.

    https://www.interpol.int/INTERPOL-expertise/Notices
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    Maybe today's bail hearing will shed some more light on this arrest, or maybe it won't.

    Interesting that Ms. Meng has been in detention since last Saturday. Interesting that the grounds for the arrest reported thus far seem to based on violating US sanctions against Iran, and not the broader espionage concerns identified by some posters above. Also, interesting that noted Iran hard liner John Bolton had advance notice of the arrest but didn't tell Trump before his meeting with Xi at the G20.

    Chinese state media is taking an increasingly hard line on the arrest, with some commentators today calling it a "kidnapping."

    Without any solid evidence, the Canadian and US governments trampled on international law by basically "kidnapping" Chinese citizen Meng Wanzhou, the chief financial officer of Huawei.

    The US government is reportedly seeking the extradition of Meng from Canada, citing an warranted charge of "violating sanctions on Iran," which is based on US domestic law. This law has no jurisdiction over Chinese citizens and institutions. The news sent shockwaves through the international community and global markets.

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1130761.shtml

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    Russian regularly tries to abuse the Interpol system by having Bill Browder arrested.

    http://fortune.com/2018/05/30/bill-b...magnitsky-act/

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    I wonder how much different this is with Canada and this arrest?

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    What ever is going on, it will rise tension further. I can't help but feel war is imminent in the very short coming distance. It is rumored that both Russia and China have EMP capabilities that the US is not prepared for. With winter that we have- especially cold today- are any of us prepared for the outage of the electrical grid?
    I also find it ironic that their is tension with Russia and NATO at the same time.

    ^^^
    Regarding the sanction issue and to my understanding, Huawei is not even sold in the US, and if this is a matter of IRAN sanction, what business is it of the US to arrest a citizen from another country that was not even in its' territory to begin with? Shouldn't that be a world court tribunal? For me, Bolton is a war hungry man as everything about his demeanor says so. Rumors on YouTube states that this is regarding a race for 5G, and the Americans are just trying to slow down the Chinese advancement. I'm far from tech savy , so anyone can interject and correct me on that issue. One thing I do know for sure is that many Asian countries have leaped �� us in high tech to the point that we look like a second world. Very bizarre!
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    ^ yeah, this is about the US keeping 5G out until there tech catches up... the big thing no one is talking about is how much better mobile tech is in China and how much money apple and other western companies stand to lose if there was a level playing field.
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    Apparently Apple has fallen to third place behind Samsung and Huawei...
    I just hope our government's involvement does not jeopardize our economy with China. According to world economic specialists, America's economy is about to collapse and we can no longer depend on the US as a whole. If you look at the silk Road initiative, North America is left out completely. The future of trading is clearly and evidently heading towards Asia, Africa, and Europe. I can't help but think there will be payback to Canada from the Chinese. We just got screwed by the US with NAFTA and now this.
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    Could have used 'creative incompetence'

    Manley said that in accordance with international obligations and Canada's extradition treaty with the U.S., Canada had to act, though he questioned whether it would have been a good time for some "creative incompetence."

    "This woman was not residing in Canada, she was simply transferring flights in Canada, and we might have just missed her," Manley said.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/bein...y-pm-1.4209676
    Where the heck is the creative incompetence when you most need it?

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    I'm going to speculate that it got stuck in between somewhere in the American mid-belt... We arrested someone for America on an " America sanction" not ratified by the world.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    ^Ms. Meng's violation of Iran sanctions is alleged to have taken place between 2009 and 2014 which predates the Trump Administration's decision to unilaterally pull out of the Iran nuclear deal.

    Whatever the truth behind the allegations, the Chinese government continues to ratchet up the pressure on Canada:

    Ms Meng's arrest while she was changing planes in Vancouver last Saturday was a serious breach of her rights, Reuters quoted the foreign ministry as saying. It "ignored the law" and was "unreasonable", it said.

    "China strongly urges the Canadian side to immediately release the detained person... otherwise Canada must accept full responsibility for the serious consequences caused," the statement added.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46494935

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    So China is now concerned about human rights.

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    Canada had no choice but to arrest Huawei executive at Washington's request: expert | CBC News

    “The arrest of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou may inflame diplomatic and trade tensions with China, but Canada's extradition treaty with the United States left it with no choice but to detain her, says a legal expert.

    "If the application from the requesting state is in order, then Canada is legally obliged to arrest her," said Rob Currie, a Dalhousie law professor who focuses extensively on extradition law.

    "Most extraditions are not terribly contentious. It so happens that this one is and has massive international political dimensions to it."

    ...”

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/men...tion-1.4937146

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    So China is now concerned about human rights.
    Yes, if you are a senior executive of a prominent Chinese company favoured by the Communist Party. Today's editiorial in the Global Times is now alleging "rude and degrading treatment" of Ms. Meng since Canadian authorities took her into custody.

    Source: http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1130954.shtml

    No, if you are a Nobel Peace Prize winner with dissident views. In that case you will be locked up in inhumane conditions and denied necessary medical treatment until you die.

    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/13/liu-xiaobo-nobel-laureate-chinese-political-prisoner-dies-61

    I'd be surprised if Ms. Meng was kept in custody and not released with strict bail conditions (e.g. surrendering passports, electronic monitoring). The optics are pretty awful of keeping Ms. Meng behind bars while she awaits extradition hearings (which with appeals can drag on for many months even years).

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    The two tier system applies everywhere.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Is it all fake news? No actual proof/evidence being presented?


    Why isn’t Fox calling it out as fake news?

    Stephen Harper urges Canada to ban Huawei from 5G network in Fox News appearance - National | Globalnews.ca
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4740979/s...ban-huawei-5g/
    Last edited by KC; 10-12-2018 at 08:51 AM.

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    I heard people talking about Huawei ages ago, that it's state owned, that this is why China does, spies. It cannot be a surprise.

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    Glad to hear Ms. Meng was released on bail pending an extradition hearing. Keeping her jailed would have been unnecessarily cruel.

    However, in the what else is new category, Trump's latest foolish remarks may just have sabotaged his own government's case:

    President Donald Trump said in an interview with Reuters on Tuesday that he would intervene in the Meng case if he thought it was "good for the country."

    "If I think it's good for what will be certainly the largest trade deal ever made -— which is a very important thing — what's good for national security — I would certainly intervene if I thought it was necessary," Trump told Reuters.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/tech/...ion/index.html

    How can the US credibly claim that Meng's arrest was not politically motivated when Trump is signalling he's willing to intervene in her case if the Chinese give him a favourable trade deal?

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    Trump is an utter buffoon, so yeah what else is new
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    If I was the Canadian judge, I'd toss the case eight now. Trump basically declares that she's a bargaining chip.

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    I think they should have just ‘accidentally’ missed her at the airport in the first place. That’s all we need right now is trouble with China. Have they cancelled the big shipping project for YEG yet? How about the plans for the big new upgrader north of town? Should have just told the FBI to get their own man, like the Mounties.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 11-12-2018 at 10:50 PM.

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    From the Canadian Press:
    "I think we're lonelier than we've been in a long, long time," said David Mulroney, who served former Conservative prime minister Stephen Harper as his first foreign-policy adviser and later as ambassador to China. "(Trump) gave credibility to an outrageous Chinese accusation — that the RCMP basically works as an extension of the U.S. government to capture a hostage who can be used in their trade negotiations."

    Roland Paris, who was Trudeau's first foreign-policy adviser, said Canada has for decades enjoyed the luxury of operating in "a very comfortable international context," but not any more.
    "Now, a lot of the assumptions that have guided our foreign policy are in question, including whether the United States has our back," said Paris, a University of Ottawa international-affairs professor.

    Both pointed to the fact that just hours before Trump sounded off, his ambassador to Canada was extolling the same separation of the law and politics as the Trudeau government.
    Secretary of State Mike Pompeo appeared to double down on Trump's line on Wednesday in a televised interview with Fox and Friends.

    "We always have to balance American interests. Any time there's a law enforcement engagement, we need to make sure we take foreign-policy ... considerations into effect," said Pompeo. "It's totally appropriate to do so. The president's mission is very clear. It's America First, right?"

    https://www.burnabynow.com/trump-com...and-1.23532663
    While Trump's foolish remarks about using Meng as a political bargaining chip in trade talks could be excused (though not by the Chinese) as coming from a buffoon, Pompeo's doubling down on Trump's remarks makes things even worse.

    Sure wish there was a way to release Meng and put her on the first plane back to China.

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    She’s in her home in Vancouver so no need to send her anywhere. Just go visit her, take off her ankle bracelet and just say forget what happened. Sorry. Have a nice day.

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    In light of what certainly looks like the unapologetic politicizing of the extradition case by the Trump Administration, was kind of wondering if her lawyers might have grounds to go back to court to change the bail conditions. Maybe to something like $5 and four boxes of Domino pizzas to share with the media.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    In light of what certainly looks like the unapologetic politicizing of the extradition case by the Trump Administration, was kind of wondering if her lawyers might have grounds to go back to court to change the bail conditions. Maybe to something like $5 and four boxes of Domino pizzas to share with the media.
    I'm guessing that in our legal system there can be no intervention once charges are laid. Too bad, it would great if Trudeau could just let her go on the grounds that if the USA is not going to follow the law then Canada won't either, and p.s. I don't like Trump and I don't care what he thinks about that because he is near the end of his presidency.

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    It’s getting interesting. Apparently unrelated businesses, but Chinese businesses, may changing their behaviour towards Canada. And Canada is changing its behaviour towards China.

    Some good might come out of all this. It might be very useful in shining a light on false and flawed perceptions and beliefs towards our trade and relationships with other countries. Like a little tremblor, small plague, drought, flood, forest fire, debt scare, etc. They highlight our dependencies and weaknesses. So, Canada gives up industries to other countries and focuses on our strengths. Fine and dandy until something goes wrong and we get a bit of a wake up call.

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    'Alone in the world': Canada squeezed by superpowers in Huawei dispute - BBC News
    “ 'Freeze' that could last years ...”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46562132

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    NATIONAL
    'Canada is a white supremacist foreign enemy': A sample of Chinese media's recent Canada bashing

    Canada is repeatedly told that if it doesn't back down and free Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou, it will face dire consequences

    TRISTIN HOPPER
    Updated: January 25, 2019

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/can...3-68e2f628c64f

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    Canada shot itself in the foot with this arrest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Canada shot itself in the foot with this arrest.
    Sticking with ones allies can do that.

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    It's time rethink our having anything to do with China. When people show you who they are, let them!

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    Canadian companies are making more money than ever by utilizing cheap Chinese labour and costs to manufacture their products. How much would you pay for things if they were Made In Edmonton? Businesses would have a hard time selling product if they had to charge 300% more.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 26-01-2019 at 03:56 PM.

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    In the ideal world, when we get onto a slippery slope, we hope we get a wake up call before it’s too late.

    A problem with wake up calls is that you never know if it’s a wake up call or if it’s a call that’s already too late. A situation may already be terminal.

    If it’s not too late, hopefully we then realize that high dependence on international trade could set us up for a real disaster.


    Saskatchewan must act quickly in Chinese trade dispute | Regina Leader-Post

    “it was inevitable that some incident would trigger a change to a new relationship, a relationship in which Canada would be relatively unimportant and could be punished without fear by the government of China.”

    https://leaderpost.com/opinion/colum...-trade-dispute
    Last edited by KC; 09-05-2019 at 11:25 PM.

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    It is too late. No matter how we look at their political ideology, these people, as a whole, deal on the "honor and integrity" system, and we destroyed that trust with them. We now cry foul over their economic game when we initiated the tango. I'm quite frankly embarrassed as a Canadian. How did we allow ourselves to present a "weasel" image to the world like this? I have read some YouTube comments from around the world regarding our country pertaining to this issue. "Pink panties" were the more palatable and civilized comment...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Dumb move. Look who’s in charge though, he may be wearing them you never know. lol

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    Huawei affair deals a blow to US special relationship | The Conservative Woman

    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/...-relationship/


    Canada said to put Huawei 5G decision on back burner with allies split - BNN Bloomberg

    http://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-pu...plit-1.1255833


    Huawei crisis offers chance to recast Canada-China relations - iPolitics

    “It has been immediately evident that Canadians at large are, as polls have indicated consistently for years, deeply skeptical about the benefits of the trade and diplomatic relationship with Beijing. This is in sharp contrast to the benign view of many among Canada’s political, business and academic decision-makers, who have been the targets of Beijing’s campaign of “elite capture” over the last 50 years.

    That very successful campaign to ensure that senior Canadian policy-makers are sympathetic to Beijing’s interests has worked in tandem with efforts to control, channel or smother the political voices among the 1.5 million Canadians of Chinese, Tibetan, Uighur or Taiwanese heritage.

    Since Xi Jinping came to power in 2012 as president and party leader, he has expanded his main weapon of political warfare, the United Front Works Department, into a massive...”

    https://ipolitics.ca/2019/05/01/huaw...ina-relations/

    Last edited by KC; 10-05-2019 at 06:37 AM.

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    Shame they didn't just turn a blind eye and let her slip away in the first place.
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    Second favor Canadians do for the US for which they get "nuffin". First being BC tanker ban (bill C-49). This would never happen under a Conservative party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Second favor Canadians do for the US for which they get "nuffin". First being BC tanker ban (bill C-49). This would never happen under a Conservative party.
    Why is bill C49 a favour to the US? I think a conservative government would have held her, we have a rule of law, and it's followed.
    If anything, it's shown how petty and dangerous China is. It's a shame we have to trade with then..
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    As soon as Trump said that he'd look at releasing her as part of a trade deal, I would have released her. It's obvious that the US sees it as part of a negotiating strategy and not about supposed Iran sanctions violations.

    DECEMBER 11, 2018 / 8:33 PM / 5 MONTHS AGO
    Trump says would intervene in arrest of Chinese executive

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said on Tuesday he would intervene with the U.S. Justice Department in the case against a Chinese telecommunications executive if it would help secure a trade deal with Beijing.

    “If I think it’s good for the country, if I think it’s good for what will be certainly the largest trade deal ever made – which is a very important thing – what’s good for national security – I would certainly intervene if I thought it was necessary,” Trump said in a wide-ranging interview with Reuters in the Oval Office.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1OB01P

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    As soon as Trump said that he'd look at releasing her as part of a trade deal, I would have released her. It's obvious that the US sees it as part of a negotiating strategy and not about supposed Iran sanctions violations.

    DECEMBER 11, 2018 / 8:33 PM / 5 MONTHS AGO
    Trump says would intervene in arrest of Chinese executive

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said on Tuesday he would intervene with the U.S. Justice Department in the case against a Chinese telecommunications executive if it would help secure a trade deal with Beijing.

    “If I think it’s good for the country, if I think it’s good for what will be certainly the largest trade deal ever made – which is a very important thing – what’s good for national security – I would certainly intervene if I thought it was necessary,” Trump said in a wide-ranging interview with Reuters in the Oval Office.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1OB01P
    That statement in itself admits America's nefarious agenda. If that is not admittance of guilt then I dont know what is...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    It is too late. No matter how we look at their political ideology, these people, as a whole, deal on the "honor and integrity" system, and we destroyed that trust with them. We now cry foul over their economic game when we initiated the tango. I'm quite frankly embarrassed as a Canadian. How did we allow ourselves to present a "weasel" image to the world like this? I have read some YouTube comments from around the world regarding our country pertaining to this issue. "Pink panties" were the more palatable and civilized comment...
    Lots of people out there calling us "Snow Mexicans"

    Which I think is actually pretty hilarious.

  53. #53

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    China tells Canada of 'consequences' of helping U.S. with Huawei case

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chi...awei-1.5157046

  54. #54

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    Im sorry ...! Is it "Pence" or "Dense "? So identical it is indistinguishable. Also, when did we decide to be dumb like Trump? We have the right to kidnap your people as we please, but here is your rule China? Not only are we toast, the Chinese have the capability of destroying America's entire economy by withholding rare earth minerals which they own 95% of the world's reserve. Just take our punishment with grace and reset ffs!
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 01-06-2019 at 01:53 AM.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Im sorry ...! Is it "Pence" or "Dense "? So identical it is indistinguishable. Also, when did we decide to be dumb like Trump? We have the right to kidnap your people as we please, but here is your rule China? Not only are we toast, the Chinese have the capability of destroying America's entire economy by withholding rare earth minerals which they own 95% of the world's reserve. Just take our punishment with grace and reset ffs!
    About 20 years ago I spent quite a few lunch hours reading anything I could find on strategic metals / rare earths thinking; 1) Canada should be stockpiling them and in a few cases making coinage with them as a form of stockpiling, and 2) that I could make a lot of money by investing in them - at the right time. I even spent time reading old microfiched articles on them at the downtown library.

    Fortunately or unfortunately, like gold, silver, etc. they just aren’t all that special. As soon as prices rise supply gets increased. Like Saudi oil, cheap rare earths are rare. However with any price increase alternatives are available.




    China Holds Rare Earths Hostage, but Don’t Panic - Barron's

    “What you probably don’t know is we’ve been here before. In 2010, China slashed export quotas on rare earths from 31,310 metric tons to 14,446 in 2011, raising their prices.”

    “There was no panic. In fact, hardly anyone mentioned rare-earth metals. One who did was Fred Festa, then CEO of W.R. Grace , in October 2010. Prices had risen, he admitted. But he didn’t seem worried. “Our portfolio includes ....”

    https://www.barrons.com/articles/chi...ic-51559353545




    Rare earth elements aren’t the secret weapon China thinks they are - The Verge

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/1...de-war-tariffs
    Last edited by KC; 01-06-2019 at 08:10 AM.

  56. #56

    Default

    The last couple years have served as an amazing wake up call to the world about developing any heavy reliance on the US or China. (Europe learned that lesson years ago concerning importing Russian oil or gas. Though I recall that dispute was largely about payments.)




    EDITORIAL: China’s threats of ‘suffering’ can’t go unanswered by us – Toronto Sun

    “Excuse us? Spare us suffering? That language is unacceptable.

    Canada must not tolerate these threats and insults. We have a number of responses at our disposal — ranging from telling them off to announcing that we’re banning Huawei or pulling our funding out of their investment bank.

    If this is how Beijing is going to behave before we have closer ties with them, just think how aggressive they’ll become after.”


    https://torontosun.com/opinion/edito...answered-by-us



    From whereever it is coming from, we’re already suffering thousands of overdose deaths. already

    Canada needs to ‘hold China accountable’ for flow of fentanyl: Scheer - National | Globalnews.ca


    https://globalnews.ca/news/5340524/a...entanyl-china/
    Last edited by KC; 01-06-2019 at 08:34 AM.

  57. #57

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    Note the imports vs exports:

    List of the largest trading partners of Canada - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ners_of_Canada

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