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Thread: Edmonton Airshow 2019

  1. #101

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    No, they work just fine. However, claiming that as many people would TRAVEL to Edmonton as do to Reno is what I'm disputing. Reno pulls in more tourist $ than we do despite being much smaller than we are. Those are people bringing money INTO the economy whereas the events here that you mention are mostly redistributing it.

    And if the CFR was such a cash cow, why wasn't Katz willing to make a deal with them? Or Calgary? Why did it end up in Red Deer with 1/10th the population of Edmonton in a smaller arena?

    And Travel Alberta should be re-named Travel Calgary because what they do to promote Edmonton is just enough to keep from being zero. But we're supposed to go "Yay!' when they manage to actually promote something here.

    It's also a mistake to assume that you'll draw the same size TV crowd for an event here as they do in the states. This year's NBA finals were the lowest rated in a decade. Americans generally aren't interested in something happening in another country.

  2. #102
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    Boy, someone here is a big fan of Reno. My brother-in-law has lived there for 15+ years and hates every second of it. Besides gambling, Reno is apparently home to most of the world's cat litter mines....betcha didn't know that....visit him once a year and it is depressing as hell......airport sucks - only attribute it's proximity to Tahoe - where we all share a cabin every September.....

  3. #103

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    Not saying I'm a big fan of Reno, just stating facts. They draw 5 million+ tourists with a local population of ~250,000. Edmonton pulls in ~3.5 million despite having 4 times the population of Reno. And a lot of those Edmonton tourist nights are simply single overnights for shopping at WEM or an Oilers game. Reno not only pulls in more visitors, they tend to stay longer, which means spending more money.

  4. #104
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    Tahoe is the draw KK. Tahoe. It is the same as Calgary/Banff...

    Not Reno...not the casinos...maclac has it right. I am not trying to disparage Reno, but I'd say Edmonton holds its own and surpasses in many areas. We could host the same amount of private jets, and the travel here has ample connections if we do this in advance. That's one reason why we pushed this off until 2020.

    I note how you sidestepped Stampede. Telling. We're learning from how that executes and Calgary businesses are taking notice. The ONLY reason this is not in Springbank is encroachment. Same for the other close proximity airports. But, they think the idea is good enough to want to play in Villeneuve. You...you say it would never happen here.

    The event I am talking about itself, people WILL travel to it. It is not all the other ancillary travel stats. The reason it is in Reno is the airport layout, not the city. Most of the executive live elsewhere (the president is in FLA). This is rare enough that it incents people to travel. Even Indy, for all its warts, was proven to give a 6% jump in passenger traffic at YEG, filled hotels, drained the rental car fleet, had 3-4 conventions book Edmonton because it was here, etc. The city pulled the plug on that due to politics, and I cannot say what or how as that would break confidences.

    CFR was a cash cow. But, politics ensued. I won't say more as again it gives up some confidences, but we learned some lessons from that issue.

    If you would take more time to stop doing the Wikipedia 50,000' view, and actually start talking about the event...

    Travel Alberta looks to Calgary because Calgary actually provides them with the metrics they want. Stampede, Banff, Kananaskis, etc give them the numbers. A lot of festivals/attractions here don't. That's why we aligned our reporting to fit their metrics. Again, lessons learned from other's mistakes.

    Once you get behind the scenes KK, it is a slightly different world than it appears. Yes, Travel Alberta does have a lot of staff in Calgary, and films a lot in the area. But, if the main municipality/ies get onside, TA is there with matching funds and effort. That is the key here and why I am pushing so hard. Once the City proper finally gets on board, then TA and others show up. The CoE is key to all of this. If they want a chance to get these numbers, they need to play. Period.

    As for your fixation on gaming, the 2017 UNR study focusing just on NCAR shows that gambling...something you think is this huge draw...is #5 of 6 key metrics. The only reason the shopping metric didn't beat gambling is the dearth of shopping in Reno compared to other cities. Also, what is not included in the UNR study but listed out in one that is NDA is the number of business deals done during NCAR.

    So, yes KK, people WILL travel to Edmonton from elsewhere if you give them something to travel FOR. Something unique, different, and not easily acquired elsewhere.

    Americans may not be interested in something happening in another country when it comes to an international sports team vs another international sports team when an American one is around. The same could be said for ratings when the Arizona Diamondbacks won the world series. Ratings were abysmal...and it wasn't the Diamondbacks vs the Jays... It is more about a sports team being based in a major market (US) than not. Even the Subway Series (Mets/Yankees) was abysmal by World Series standards. But, they do watch premier league football, Tour de France, etc. Can I blame them for being homers? Nope.

    Again, by your logic, you appear to say that Edmonton isn't worth the effort. Again, I ask do you live here? Again, I ask if this idea is so **** poor, and others are, then what is your mind melting idea and why aren't you pushing it? I'm OK if there is a better idea and it wins. So KK, instead of just trying to trash other's efforts with high-level statistics melded for your convenience, what is your strategy?

    I know the answer. You don't have one. So, what's for dinner?
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  5. #105

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    Tahoe pulls in ~3 million visitors per year. Reno gets 5 million. Somehow, 60% of what Reno draws is actually why people go there. And regardless of which it is, that's 8 million visitors (some of which are probably counted twice) compared to Edmonton's ~3 million. It's the same with Calgary/Banff. Do you think that all those visitors to Banff think about how they can bypass Calgary or do they stay in both locations?

    A lot of Edmonton festivals/attractions don't provide what Travel Alberta is looking for? So, which ones should we stop supporting and which ones deserve to be promoted by Travel Alberta? Which ones are holding us back? Is it time to stop splitting the support and put fewer eggs into our basket? And how do we come up to something that compares to Banff or Kananaskis? Move Jasper to the east? There's a big difference between deciding to have lunch in Banff ant 10 am and being able to do so and doing the same in Edmonton. Do that and you'd end up having lunch in Leaman, not Jasper.

    No, Edmonton is worth the effort but the whole "We need to make the world take notice of us at all costs" has been going on for decades. The old joke was there were two things people knew about Edmonton were Wayne Gretzky and West Edmonton Mall. Well, Gretzky is long gone from the headlines. I'd prefer that we concentrate on doing what's best for the people that live here. If other people notice and decide that it looks interesting, so much the better. Edmonton's desperate need for outside validation is keeping us from seeing that we're actually just fine being ourselves and that we don't need to be the needy friend who's always trying to be the popular cheerleader or the famous jock.

    We're looking at spending millions to attract a World Cup game or two, dropping more money onto a stadium that sits empty 95% of the time. And even if we do get to host a game and get world TV coverage, what's the long term result? How many people Edmonton hosted the World Track and Field Championships in 2001? What is the result from that now, nearly 20 years on? Any lasting effect to the average person planning their vacation?

    And again, if the CFR was such a cash cow, why didn't Calgary or even Saskatoon snap it up? Oh right "secret" politics. Edmonton has such influence over those cities that we managed to kibosh any move to a larger center. We're sneaky that way.

    The problem was that Katz, who may have grown up here but can hardly be considered an Edmontonian these days, decided that he had to have a No Compete Clause added to the deal that saw the city buy him a brand new arena. And Edmonton, being so desperate for the attention that an NHL team brings, went along with it. But that's the way we are. We want the new, she sparkly, the shiny. Don't build on what we have. Instead, we get distracted by "the next big thing" and let what's already here fall by the wayside. LMP is half finished. Public spaces are overgrown with weeds. Trashcans are overflowing on Jasper but don't worry because we've got fancy new sidewalks and still unfinished custom light standards to draw people downtown.

    I used to attend the Namao Airshow and while it was an interesting way to spend a day, it didn't really have much of a lasting effect on me. It was a couple of days out of the year. What about the other 363 days of the year? It's like going out for a night on the town and then going home to a house that needs painting and general repairs. Sure, the night out was fun but I spend a lot more time in the house that needs work.

  6. #106
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    "The problem was that Katz, who may have grown up here but can hardly be considered an Edmontonian these days,..."

    kkozoriz, I stopped reading when I read your asinine statement. Grow up ... Katz is more of an "Edmontonian" than you ever will be. Katz has been a champion for Edmonton for his entire life and continues to support numerous charities, promote academic and applied research and maintains business operations and investment in Edmonton. And while he has a home in Edmonton - he has the good fortune to be able to live and work from any place in the world. Who the hell do you think you are to decide who is and who is not an Edmontonian - you're pathetic.

  7. #107
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    KK

    1. Namao was a military show, meant for RCAF recruiting. They made no secret of that. We are an air summit meant for business generation and education in STEM, trades, and we still do a bit of CAF recruiting. 2 advisory board members are ex RCAF- both commanders and one commanded Namao during the airshow years. Our scope is far broader.
    2. the rhetoric of moving mountains is unnecessary. It is about what you do with what you have, and how do you expand. If Leaman wanted to be something, it can. I also was a proponent of a design for a highway 16 set of attractions from Lloyd to Valemount.
    3. This is not an "at all costs" effort. It is tightly controlled. Investment in this is far cheaper than Crashed Ice, the money stays here, local IP, pays local suppliers...not that Crashed Ice was bad...
    4. How dare you do the tired trope of setting me up for failure. I did not ask for any festival or event to be axed. I just mentioned that if you want Travel Alberta cash, you need to do what Travel Alberta needs. They focus on external tourists, not locals.
    5. This is not about validation. It is an ANNUAL event that gets people here ANNUALLY. You said
      If other people notice and decide that it looks interesting, so much the better.
      Well how in the world are they going to notice in enough volume to make a difference? Word of mouth? Glossy brochures that people take on boondoggles? I can tell you with authority that when I get people here, they stay. When I was living in the US, I outsourced jobs TO Edmonton from a multi-national company. When I moved here, I recruited 66 jobs in 4 months using this very forum as a way to show people what is going on here. It is when they got here, that I definitely pushed the wow factor to 10. That is what this annual event is, and why I am trying to expand it. Once we get them here, they tend to like it.
    6. Again, ANNUAL event. ...as in people do plan their vacations. In this industry, even volunteers plan their vacations to come and play. Ask Reno. Ask Oshkosh. Ask Farnborough. Don't try to deflect by juxtaposing to a one and done events like the Track and Field games, or FIFA.
    7. CFR. Calgary has an arena issue. Saskatoon got burned. CFR wanted Alberta. Red Deer it is. they've done a good job so far.
    8. Please stop the rhetoric of lawns, garbage cans, and parks. Using your house metaphor, I am inviting several people to our house so that they can see how good it is. They are going to drop some cash, and maybe make some comments, so we can take the rest of the year to fix up our house for next year's party. We may even reciprocate and go to other house parties to see what they do.
    9. You STILL ignore the Stampede equation. Where are the mayor's, MLA's, MP's, provincial leaders, CEO's etc right now? Stampede. Whether it is Rachel, Jason, Justin, Stephen, Ralph, Alison....they always attend Stampede. Stampede is NOT a rodeo. Alberta has several rodeos, yet this Calgary event is world renowned. If we can even get a little bit of that excitement here, we'd be golden. 10% of $400M is $40M. ...but, you'd rather pooh pooh this.


    I'm still waiting for your eye-watering solution.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  8. #108
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    Oh Richard, I feel so badly for you, having to try and explain all this, to someone that isn't listening. We're so looking forward to the air show. I've passed the info on to everyone we know, and put information in other forums..
    Animals are my passion.

  9. #109

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/b...-airlines.html

    Airlines Try New Ways to Build Pilot Ranks


    Olivia Mickevicius and Ahkeel Leach after a preflight equipment check at the American Airlines Cadet Academy in Mesa, Ariz., where they are training to become pilots.


    Caitlin O'Hara for The New York Times


    By Christine Negroni
    June 17, 2019


    It’s a conundrum bordering on a crisis for the global airline industry: More people are flying to more places, but the number of pilots is not keeping up.


    “Airlines have had to go to greater lengths to recruit pilots,” said Nick Leontidis, group president of civil aviation training solutions at CAE, an aviation education company. “If it took a month to recruit 50 pilots, it takes six months now.”


    Reports from airplane manufacturers, industry associations and pilot labor groups point to a confluence of events. Not only are more people traveling by air, but airlines now link an unprecedented number of cities — 20,000 worldwide as of 2018. Often those markets are served by smaller planes, not the jumbo jets of a decade ago that could carry 450 people or more, and that makes for more flights.


    Demand for air travel is growing so quickly that 635,000 commercial pilots will be needed by 2037, according to a forecast produced by Boeing in 2018. The biggest need is in Asia, where an improving economy in China has resulted in more people traveling. More people are flying in the United States as well and, at the same time, pilots are hitting the mandatory retirement age of 65.


    For aspiring airline pilots like 24-year-old Ahkeel Leach, who spent his childhood traveling between his father’s home in New York and his mother’s in Britain, the industry’s challenge is a career opportunity. Though he had wanted to fly since he was a child, he did not know where to study or how to pay for it.


    “My family, we’re all immigrants. Aviation is one of those things you stick in the corner,” he said. “It’s a great job, but not everybody knows there are affordable avenues or has guidance to get there.”


    Programs that give students like Mr. Leach flying lessons, the means to pay for them and the promise of a job after graduation are new in the United States. Recently, American Airlines and JetBlue became the first United States-based carriers to offer what is called an “ab initio” training program. A Latin term for “from the beginning,” it means that airlines select people with an aptitude and personality for the cockpit and teach them everything else.

    (...)

  10. #110

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    US Navy assets coming!
    https://www.edmontonairshow.com/attr...tatic-display/

    C-2 Greyhoung and E-2 Hawkeye! Both are aircraft carrier assets. This is going to be sweet!

  11. #111

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    https://www.stalberttoday.ca/local-n...uccess-1542487

    Aviation sector taking off with airshow success
    The Edmonton Airshow has grown since being launched in 2015 and since then the aviation sector as grown with it in the region
    about 11 hours ago by: Jeff Labine


    Capt. Brian Kilroy will pilot the Royal Canadian Air Force's (RCAF) 2019 Demo Jet coming to the Edmonton Airshow in August. The 2019 CF-18 Demo theme "To the Stars" celebrates the journey that led not only to a modern RCAF but the key cultural and technological innovations that led us to the stars. – Image by Corp. Arthur Ark / Aerial Imagery Specialist

    The aviation sector is taking flight in Sturgeon County thanks in part to the success of the Edmonton Airshow.


    The annual event, which launched in 2015, draws thousands to the Villeneuve Airport for two days of aerial showmanship. This year’s lineup includes staples like the Canadian Forces Snowbirds as well as some special guests like the A-10C Thunderbolt II demo team from Arizona.


    During a media conference on Wednesday, June 26, organizers and officials with Sturgeon County and the Edmonton International Airport (EIA) played up the economic benefit of developing the aviation industry in the area.


    Traci Bednard, a spokesperson with the EIA, said the economic impact of the event alone was more than $3 million while the Villeneuve Airport generates an economic output of $62 million and a gross domestic product (GDP) impact of $31 million based on 2017 numbers.


    Sturgeon County Mayor Alanna Hnatiw said there are a lot of components in place to see aviation in the area succeed, including excellent learning institutions for artificial intelligence and machinery.


    “We know we have the talent and we know we have space,” she said. “We have a skilled workforce that can diversify. If the opportunities are available, I really believe we’ll be able to attract the people and knowledge that isn’t here and then develop the knowledge that is here. I think it is an opportunity for people who live here to work in a sector that they otherwise wouldn’t have had an opportunity to.”


    Hnatiw said as the airshow has grown, so too has the aviation industry in the area. She said it’s the county’s job to support the industry as it continues to grow but she added council sets a high bar for not only themselves but for businesses as well.


    “It just makes sense that when you have like-minded people, you stand in when you can and support one another,” she said. “(It is) our jobs as leaders in the region to look at what is underdeveloped, what needs a little energy, a little attention and then let things take root.”


    The county isn’t providing any financial contribution to the airshow but instead in-kind support by providing services like emergency response.


    Richard Skermer, the organizer of the airshow, said he hopes to one day elevate the airshow to the same notoriety as the Calgary Stampede. Before a plane ever takes flight, he explained, men, women and companies all work together to put the aircraft together.


    “We want to be that networking event that is internationally recognized in order to attract investors and locate those businesses and jobs here,” he said. “We want to create a network where landowners and developers can source opportunities for their portfolio. We want to have investors come to the region and see our facilities like the international airport – augmented by the Villeneuve Airport – can be even bigger and better and even larger assets for Alberta as we’re open for business in the world.”


    The fifth annual airshow runs from Saturday, Aug. 17 and Sunday, Aug. 18. The airshow will also feature Jacquie B, the Erickson Collection, de Havilland DH-115 and Yellow Thunder. Tickets went on sale in May and can be purchased online at edmontonairshow.com.

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  13. #113
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    Yep, thank you summer that never was.

    I'm sure it was a heart-breaking call Richard - but, sad to say - almost certainly the right one.

    Oh, and if you didn't notice, all that lovely rain? Lac Ste. Anne County has declared an agricultural emergency.
    ... gobsmacked

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    I just got the email. [email protected] this summer has been [email protected] I hope its okay for the folk fest ..
    we've been turned away from two sites today, its far too muddy, and trucks are getting stuck. So it was a good call, but hubby was really looking forward to it
    Animals are my passion.

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    Thanks for all the effort Richard!
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  16. #116

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    Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx!!!!!!!
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  17. #117
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    Thank you everyone.

    As I sit here at 2 am, it is pouring outside. I mean POURING.

    This was not a hard call at all. Logic and data said the odds of success were under 5%. We sank about 20 cm in the mud just getting off the hard surface and onto the parking lot. ...and we were on the HIGH ground. So, it was more of timing to get everything put together. Difficult to swallow? Yes. Hard to make. No. My conscience is clear.

    If I could not put a simple truck on the site, what would happen with an ambulance? Or a fire truck? I was afraid to even think of the feeling of watching one of my friends have an accident with her or his plane, go down, and watch helplessly as I could not dispatch anything to help.

    As a disabled person, I know I would be LIVID if I had to walk that parking lot, or the infield. Livid. ...like demanding heads on a platter and raining blood livid. Any producer that does this...grrrr.

    I'd rather be smart and pull the pin now. I was a little disappointed at CFRN's line of questioning...attempting to allude that ticket sales prompted the cancellation. I didn't hide my anger well. Edmonton is a last-minute town. 60+ % of sales are day of. Even when we try to incent people to buy early with $10 cheaper prices, the gate is where they buy. It costs us extra to staff the gate, hence why the extra charge. However, even if I was sold right out, I would make exactly the same call. EXACTLY. What did they expect? ...me to sit there as a family tried to push a stroller through a mud pit? ...me to sit and laugh as people trip, slip, fall, and hurt themselves in a slime pit of clay and weeds? Watching people drag mud all over a runway? Having vehicles and people tramp down the infield, causing millions of dollars of damage to wiring and infield repairs - shutting down a runway for months? Using the excuse of, "that's what insurance is for!" is irresponsible as my willing disregard for people would have my policies cancelled, and me personally liable. If I was that much of a jerk, I'd deserve the ire.

    No. I respect the airfield. I am trying to expand it. I respect my patrons and I want to treat them as I would want to be treated.

    We had the MLA's showing up, the business leaders, the industry leaders, senior CAF staff, National Defence staff...we had the audience I'd always wanted. I spent weeks going over protocols, who speaks when, Sturgeon County invested heavily...the stars were aligning...why in the sweet name of whatever you think is holy would I cancel that????

    ....then the rains fell and fell and fell and fell...2.5-3x normal. Adjacent Lac St Anne county just declared a state of agricultural emergency due to the wet. Taber lost its crop. Fields all over the area are either lakes, swamps, or full of rotting canola. Hail the size of grapefruit...
    I was 9 days from realizing a 15-year journey...but yeah...it was about ticket sales.....

    I have the theme for the 2020 show. We've seen smoke (fire). We've seen rain (floods). We've had grasshoppers (locusts). Coming in 2020...the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse...at least they fly and make it an airshow!
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  18. #118

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    Perhaps next year you could do a regatta?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Sorry to hear Rich.
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    I'm on vacation, so takes a lot to stir me from my seaside recline to comment. But, son . of . a . bitche!

    So hoping this only delays, but does not detract from, the incredible momentum attained by all involved thus far.

    😯

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    Thanks Spill.

    We've already resigned many of the performers for 2020. We've reapplied for the military teams. We have added an extra private jet. I am thrilled that the confidence of the public is leading many to keep their tickets for 2020. Many vendors are doing the same too. Some, of course, want their $$ now.

    Like I said, we had incredible momentum. All the invitees we wanted were coming. We cannot let this die.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  22. #122

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    Not sure I buy that gate sales were going to be the huge push at an event as far away as Villeneuve and with very little interest in the event itself. Even if I had the slightest interest in attending, its 2hours away, one way.

    Like I've said before people increasingly don't want to see militaristic displays, don't want to take their kids to it, and want no part of the typical air show (not yours) that is basically a display of death from above killing prowess.

    Airshows are, and should be, rendered to the scrapheap of history. Deplorable displays that to me are obscene. I dare say a lot of people that don't express their thoughts, but simply always stay away feel very similarly.

    I'm glad this was cancelled. Jmo that it should be permanently cancelled.
    Last edited by Replacement; 11-08-2019 at 10:36 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  23. #123
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    Did you just insult the feat of flight? of engineering? human ingenuity?
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Not sure I buy that gate sales were going to be the huge push at an event as far away as Villeneuve and with very little interest in the event itself. Even if I had the slightest interest in attending, its 2hours away, one way.

    Like I've said before people increasingly don't want to see militaristic displays, don't want to take their kids to it, and want no part of the typical air show (not yours) that is basically a display of death from above killing prowess.

    Airshows are, and should be, rendered to the scrapheap of history. Deplorable displays that to me are obscene. I dare say a lot of people that don't express their thoughts, but simply always stay away feel very similarly.

    I'm glad this was cancelled. Jmo that it should be permanently cancelled.
    I respect and understand your position. I will not argue that in the least. It is your opinion to hold.

    However, your statement that there is very little interest in the event itself is categorically untrue in the highest degree. I cannot let that outright falsehood stand.

    From our host hotel, and the West End hotels, St AB hotels, and others in Parkland/Spruce Grove, it is not 2 hours away. It is 15-20 minutes from most areas around the NW/SW, 30 minutes from downtown, and 8-10 from Spruce Grove, St Albert, and NW Edmonton.

    Ticket sales this year outpaced all previous years by a large margin. Our sponsor list was 2x. Wesjet and others took notice and wanted to participate. We saw a dramatic spike in OUT OF TOWN (out of rubber tire) ticket buyers. A lot from Calgary south - coming for the A-10 specifically. Many of these were families with children. Our demographic is 34-44 year old FAMILIES with CHILDREN, and younger individuals. We are 51% male, 49% female.

    You do not have the facts and the data, so I politely ask you not to make such false statements. It was factors like the increased demand and the increased out of town traffic that was a need to EXPAND our parking from 40-80 acres. It is also why we knew parking was not going to be able to be executed safely, and it played a factor in our early decision so that people could cancel hotels in enough time to get their reservations cancelled.

    Without giving away names, we had a VIP list that was stellar. The business development, networking, education, and economic diversification agenda had all the right players coming this year.

    Our static line was growing with civilian displays. Summit Air had its RJ100. Diamond was bringing the DA-62 and was part of a larger initiative to bring jobs here (potentially). We had a new HondaJet - speaking of new engineering and more efficient designs. We had commitments from several others, who like us were carefully watching the weather. They still would come in the rain, but they were conscious of hail, thunderstorms, and high winds like Springbank.

    We had career fair members - interestingly most were from Calgary.

    This was setting up to be a sellout. However, as Edmonton attendees historically do, approximately 60% are game day purchasers. Our own history reflects that, which is why we have extra Moneris machines, cash, and personnel for this event. It is also why there is a $10 per ticket upcharge day of to cover those costs.

    Again, I respect your opinion. Others do have it. Toronto is a good example of some who express a desire to not have a show. However, London, ON is growing. Villeneuve, AB is growing. Others are as well. There is a secret sauce, and it is a balance. Yes, shows on a military base are 99.99% military. We aren't.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Did you just insult the feat of flight? of engineering? human ingenuity?
    The typical airshow, and its displays of war industry should be canned forever.

    Other than that commercial flight is an obscene waste of non renewable fuels.

    Domestic, continental flight should be shutdown, world over. The best thing we could do, and immediately. It'll happen eventually anyway, and has to.

    All intercity travel should be by rail. All city travel should be by public transit.

    We had the right mode on this continent 100yrs ago and I'm not kidding at all.

    Vehicles, freeways, highways, have restructured society, cities, and in many cases ruined them.

    Ultimately we'd be better off having none of that nature of wasteful progress. These are means that are unsustainable.

    I'm doing my part to say goodbye to the vehicle, never to return to having one. I never fly btw. Refuse to do it for conscientious reasons. I can't justify the wasteful energy expenditure getting flights off the ground.
    Last edited by Replacement; 11-08-2019 at 11:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Not sure I buy that gate sales were going to be the huge push at an event as far away as Villeneuve and with very little interest in the event itself. Even if I had the slightest interest in attending, its 2hours away, one way.

    Like I've said before people increasingly don't want to see militaristic displays, don't want to take their kids to it, and want no part of the typical air show (not yours) that is basically a display of death from above killing prowess.

    Airshows are, and should be, rendered to the scrapheap of history. Deplorable displays that to me are obscene. I dare say a lot of people that don't express their thoughts, but simply always stay away feel very similarly.

    I'm glad this was cancelled. Jmo that it should be permanently cancelled.
    In SA they had to put on more buses. Lots of families were going. We were going as a group.
    We're very very disappointed that it had to be canceled, and unlike, say, cariwest, it would have had a wonderful organized showing
    Animals are my passion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Perhaps next year you could do a regatta?

    Funny enough, our future plans include one...but I didn't expect it to be at Villeneuve!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Did you just insult the feat of flight? of engineering? human ingenuity?
    The typical airshow, and its displays of war industry should be canned forever.

    Other than that commercial flight is an obscene waste of non renewable fuels.

    Domestic, continental flight should be shutdown, world over. The best thing we could do, and immediately. It'll happen eventually anyway, and has to.

    All intercity travel should be by rail. All city travel should be by public transit.

    We had the right mode on this continent 100yrs ago and I'm not kidding at all.

    Vehicles, freeways, highways, have restructured society, cities, and in many cases ruined them.

    Ultimately we'd be better off having none of that nature of wasteful progress. These are means that are unsustainable.
    Wow.
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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    (...)

    Domestic, continental flight should be shutdown, world over. The best thing we could do, and immediately. It'll happen eventually anyway, and has to.

    All intercity travel should be by rail. All city travel should be by public transit.
    (...)
    www.aintevergonnahappen.com #pipedream

    Aviation is moving to other fuel types, which is a theme of what we were exploring in our diversification section.

    The desire for instantaneous access to things is driving MORE air traffic, not less. Are you telling me that people are going to be willing to go from fast access to a train? Maybe for a trip between Montreal and TO, but NOT Calgary to TO.

    You seriously think people are going to give up their autonomous (even semi-autonomous) self-propelled steel cocoons? The fuel will change (gee, there is that theme again of changing fuels helping diversify Alberta), but the personal transit machine won't go away.

    I'm willing to place bets I'm right.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Not sure I buy that gate sales were going to be the huge push at an event as far away as Villeneuve and with very little interest in the event itself. Even if I had the slightest interest in attending, its 2hours away, one way.

    Like I've said before people increasingly don't want to see militaristic displays, don't want to take their kids to it, and want no part of the typical air show (not yours) that is basically a display of death from above killing prowess.

    Airshows are, and should be, rendered to the scrapheap of history. Deplorable displays that to me are obscene. I dare say a lot of people that don't express their thoughts, but simply always stay away feel very similarly.

    I'm glad this was cancelled. Jmo that it should be permanently cancelled.
    I respect and understand your position. I will not argue that in the least. It is your opinion to hold.

    However, your statement that there is very little interest in the event itself is categorically untrue in the highest degree. I cannot let that outright falsehood stand.

    From our host hotel, and the West End hotels, St AB hotels, and others in Parkland/Spruce Grove, it is not 2 hours away. It is 15-20 minutes from most areas around the NW/SW, 30 minutes from downtown, and 8-10 from Spruce Grove, St Albert, and NW Edmonton.

    Ticket sales this year outpaced all previous years by a large margin. Our sponsor list was 2x. Wesjet and others took notice and wanted to participate. We saw a dramatic spike in OUT OF TOWN (out of rubber tire) ticket buyers. A lot from Calgary south - coming for the A-10 specifically. Many of these were families with children. Our demographic is 34-44 year old FAMILIES with CHILDREN, and younger individuals. We are 51% male, 49% female.

    You do not have the facts and the data, so I politely ask you not to make such false statements. It was factors like the increased demand and the increased out of town traffic that was a need to EXPAND our parking from 40-80 acres. It is also why we knew parking was not going to be able to be executed safely, and it played a factor in our early decision so that people could cancel hotels in enough time to get their reservations cancelled.

    Without giving away names, we had a VIP list that was stellar. The business development, networking, education, and economic diversification agenda had all the right players coming this year.

    Our static line was growing with civilian displays. Summit Air had its RJ100. Diamond was bringing the DA-62 and was part of a larger initiative to bring jobs here (potentially). We had a new HondaJet - speaking of new engineering and more efficient designs. We had commitments from several others, who like us were carefully watching the weather. They still would come in the rain, but they were conscious of hail, thunderstorms, and high winds like Springbank.

    We had career fair members - interestingly most were from Calgary.

    This was setting up to be a sellout. However, as Edmonton attendees historically do, approximately 60% are game day purchasers. Our own history reflects that, which is why we have extra Moneris machines, cash, and personnel for this event. It is also why there is a $10 per ticket upcharge day of to cover those costs.

    Again, I respect your opinion. Others do have it. Toronto is a good example of some who express a desire to not have a show. However, London, ON is growing. Villeneuve, AB is growing. Others are as well. There is a secret sauce, and it is a balance. Yes, shows on a military base are 99.99% military. We aren't.
    This is well and good but saying ticket sales were great, near sell out, etc, and conversely that you had an expectation of 60% of event day ticket sales is understandably confusing, and perhaps misleading. But its your festival, your numbers, and that's fine, I'll opt out of that sidebar.

    I didn't single out your airshow as militaristic, just the concept of airshows and the history of them. Its a theme a lot of us want to see end. You know my fill views on this.

    Clearly you made the best decision by cancelling.
    Last edited by Replacement; 11-08-2019 at 11:17 AM.
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  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    (...)
    This is well and good but saying ticket sales were great, near sell out, etc, and conversely that you had an expectation of 60% of event day ticket sales is understandably confusing, and perhaps misleading. But its your festival, your numbers, and that's fine, I'll opt out of that sidebar.

    I didn't single out your airshow as militaristic, just the concept of airshows and the history of them. Its a theme a lot of us want to see end. You know my fill views on this, carry on.
    I know your views, and I respect them. I don't think that the world is ever going to turn its back on flight, and I will place a friendly bet on that. Same with cars.

    I only go by the history of ticket sales in Edmonton for outdoor events. Over the past 5 years, the trend is the initial buyers jump in early (15-20%), there is a lull, and then once the long-range forecast kicks in, they start to spike 2 weeks out. They exponentially spike a couple of days out, and then explode at the gates.

    With the history, we have to plan that. Indy was 68-70% day of ticket sales, which confounded those organizers. We may have broken that trend, but without a few years of a different history under our belt, that is what I have to plan for.

    For event goers with families, it is all about the weather and amenities therein.
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  32. #132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    (...)

    Domestic, continental flight should be shutdown, world over. The best thing we could do, and immediately. It'll happen eventually anyway, and has to.

    All intercity travel should be by rail. All city travel should be by public transit.
    (...)
    www.aintevergonnahappen.com #pipedream

    Aviation is moving to other fuel types, which is a theme of what we were exploring in our diversification section.

    The desire for instantaneous access to things is driving MORE air traffic, not less. Are you telling me that people are going to be willing to go from fast access to a train? Maybe for a trip between Montreal and TO, but NOT Calgary to TO.

    You seriously think people are going to give up their autonomous (even semi-autonomous) self-propelled steel cocoons? The fuel will change (gee, there is that theme again of changing fuels helping diversify Alberta), but the personal transit machine won't go away.

    I'm willing to place bets I'm right.

    I know you're wrong.

    Exponential population growth and exponential use of energy, any energy, is unsustainable. This is not even subject to debate.

    Yes people give up these conveniences, many out of conviction, as I'm doing now.

    We'll all have to eventually, or our children will.

    Why not now?

    Instantaneous gratification? I can't justify that as an excuse to burn out our supply of non renewables. People could just change their wants, expectations, and behavior.

    All that said its easy for me. I love rail travel, public transit, despise airports, flying (not afraid at all), just don't enjoy the whole experience, checking in, security, being trapped in a sardine can on the tarmac for endless hours etc. My last flight anywhere was in 2000, I won't take another one. More than fine with that and never miss anything about the disconnected, crammed and frustrating experience. EVERY flight I ever took in my life was a delayed flight fiasco anyway. People should thank me for vowing not to ever fly again. Every flight I ever had was a delay gongshow. The industry has gotten far worse since then.
    Last edited by Replacement; 11-08-2019 at 12:02 PM.
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  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    (...). People could just change their wants, expectations, and behavior.
    #goodluckwiththat

    The genie is out of the bottle. More people are striving for bigger, stronger, faster, better than Little House on the Prairie.

    There is a change in the energy needed, yes. There won't be a change back to a day without powered flight in a huge way.


    I am willing to make that wager...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    (...). People could just change their wants, expectations, and behavior.
    #goodluckwiththat

    The genie is out of the bottle. More people are striving for bigger, stronger, faster, better than Little House on the Prairie.

    There is a change in the energy needed, yes. There won't be a change back to a day without powered flight in a huge way.


    I am willing to make that wager...
    Thanks btw for your goodwill response to my posts. I don't always deserve that.

    As far as the wager its as we both know kind of pointless. The end of commercial flight is unlikely to come so quickly, as to occur in our lifetime. So unless you believe in reincarnation and taking up the bet in another lifetime

    In anycase people can read the citations on their own;

    http://theconversation.com/its-time-...ironment-70953

    Ultimately the decision to end commercial flight has to be made by international govt cooperation. It won't be the consumers ending it, or demanding it, people are amazingly short sighted on their flight carbon usage footprint. Theres little political will either, to make the changes. Could be that ultimately the change just occurs when air travels stops being so preferentially subsidized and the real weight of all costs ultimately grounds flight as an energy inefficient means of conveyance.

    A very interesting read, reasons to stop flying, now.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ane-pollution/
    Last edited by Replacement; 11-08-2019 at 12:27 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  35. #135

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    Replacement, you state that RichardS's opinion is wrong but it is not. He is just being realistic.

    Europe has an extensive high speed rail system and a long history of rail use but air travel between EU cotes grows and grows.

    You must face reality that the cost of building a North American high speed rail system is trillions of dollars, would require huge amounts fossil fuels and create millions of tons of CO2 with no confidence that the eventual system would be well used, economical or actually reduce the net CO2 compared to flying or driving.

    I advocate public transit but let's be honest.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Replacement, you state that RichardS's opinion is wrong but it is not. He is just being realistic.

    Europe has an extensive high speed rail system and a long history of rail use but air travel between EU cotes grows and grows.

    You must face reality that the cost of building a North American high speed rail system is trillions of dollars, would require huge amounts fossil fuels and create millions of tons of CO2 with no confidence that the eventual system would be well used, economical or actually reduce the net CO2 compared to flying or driving.

    I advocate public transit but let's be honest.
    The main reason that air travel grows within Europe is the gross subsidization of that industry.

    The next reason is millennials, who would rather fly around the globe than explore something great that is blocks or miles away.

    Its astounding, frankly given the beauty of Europe that people would prefer to fly than see it on the ground.

    Rail travel is a vastly superior experience and always has been.

    Rail travel goes to DT's, conveniently takes people right to popular areas and connected well with public transit.

    I stated that Richard is wrong in thinking that Commercial Air Travel will continue indefinitely. As soon as subsidies abate, and real environmental costs of air travel are fully understood, the only logical option is for it to stop.

    Any discussion of limiting carbon emission and global warming that doesn't involve a drastic rethink on air travel, air freight, which is the biggest immediate change in footprint we can make, is misguided.

    Ground all flights tomorrow, close all airports, and we do more to balance carbon emissions, reduce global warming, than anything else we strive to undertake. Endless studies detail this.

    btw one of the best stop flying articles I've read that explores the real costs of flying

    https://veggievagabonds.com/2019/01/...o-stop-flying/
    Last edited by Replacement; 11-08-2019 at 12:43 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  37. #137

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    Do you realize that high speed rail in Europe is also heavily subsidized?

    What is an even playing field these days?
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    Well, this guy is on CHED at 10 am tomorrow. Feel free to call in.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  39. #139

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    We've got our pre-sale tix for this year's show. They will be honored next year...correct?
    No point in going thru the refund process if this is the case because we'll be there next year regardless.
    Sucks that this one is not going to happen though.

    Ron

  40. #140

    Default

    And as to "Replacement" and all of your "militarophobic" blather with regards to airshows?
    My honest answer is "different strokes for different folks".
    If we (as a society) are so much about accepting "BLT"'s and "LGBTQ"'s and "TQBFUBAR's and...WTF"'s?

    Then what is intrinsically wrong with an airshow displaying modern air power?
    I'm leaving a space for your reply cause I REALLY want to hear it.

    Aviation is not going away anytime soon.
    It will evolve however.
    This is true.
    Despite your antiquated dreams, nobody but a casual tourist will choose a three day train ticket to Toronto over a 3.5 hour plane ride.
    "Delusional" is only scratching the surface in this regard...
    ZOMFG our planet is sinking in a carbon based chaos!!!
    Our emissions over here are a pimple on the arse of the Chinese elephant, and yet we (by that I mean: you and your type) are screaming bloody murder about this aspect?
    Maybe you should get on a train and head over to China to tell them how you feel?
    No, wait. You can't do that.

    Hence air travel.
    Or take a boat...
    IOW?
    Reality check Bro.

    I rest my case.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron View Post
    We've got our pre-sale tix for this year's show. They will be honored next year...correct?
    (...)
    Correct.

    2019 tickets will be honoured at the 2020 event.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  42. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Not sure I buy that gate sales were going to be the huge push at an event as far away as Villeneuve and with very little interest in the event itself. Even if I had the slightest interest in attending, its 2hours away, one way.

    Like I've said before people increasingly don't want to see militaristic displays, don't want to take their kids to it, and want no part of the typical air show (not yours) that is basically a display of death from above killing prowess.

    Airshows are, and should be, rendered to the scrapheap of history. Deplorable displays that to me are obscene. I dare say a lot of people that don't express their thoughts, but simply always stay away feel very similarly.

    I'm glad this was cancelled. Jmo that it should be permanently cancelled.
    Hey **** ****** if it wasnt for those miltary units you would be ******* speaking german right now you dolt have some ******* respect for what our men and woman did you twatwaffle

  43. #143

    Default

    As per the replies to my post I rest my case. Look at the heinous belief systems of some of those that support this nature of endeavor.

    Military might serves little present purpose other than the perpetuation of the same. 50yrs after Vietnam and we still don't get this. God (who is dead) help us.

    Short of that common sense help us, but that died as well.

    "Militarophopbic"? The whole world should be, and should've been already a 100yrs ago. Look up the actual contrived reasons for the first WW..

    Finally, travel, of any sort is not a need, its a consumeristic driven false notion of temporary splendor. 50 weeks for the machine, two weeks for the person. enjoy. All so that you can participate lifelong in the consumer game. Whatever trumped need it is that you are consuming.
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-08-2019 at 05:12 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  44. #144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron View Post
    And as to "Replacement" and all of your "militarophobic" blather with regards to airshows?
    My honest answer is "different strokes for different folks".
    If we (as a society) are so much about accepting "BLT"'s and "LGBTQ"'s and "TQBFUBAR's and...WTF"'s?

    Then what is intrinsically wrong with an airshow displaying modern air power?
    I'm leaving a space for your reply cause I REALLY want to hear it.

    Aviation is not going away anytime soon.
    It will evolve however.
    This is true.
    Despite your antiquated dreams, nobody but a casual tourist will choose a three day train ticket to Toronto over a 3.5 hour plane ride.
    "Delusional" is only scratching the surface in this regard...
    ZOMFG our planet is sinking in a carbon based chaos!!!
    Our emissions over here are a pimple on the arse of the Chinese elephant, and yet we (by that I mean: you and your type) are screaming bloody murder about this aspect?
    Maybe you should get on a train and head over to China to tell them how you feel?
    No, wait. You can't do that.

    Hence air travel.
    Or take a boat...
    IOW?
    Reality check Bro.

    I rest my case.
    Theres a special place for you in the global warming denial thread and the homophobic thread.

    Thank you for being exhibit A for deplorable belief systems and illogic.

    "Antiquated" "Evolve" "Delusional" Irony...
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-08-2019 at 05:24 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  45. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Not sure I buy that gate sales were going to be the huge push at an event as far away as Villeneuve and with very little interest in the event itself. Even if I had the slightest interest in attending, its 2hours away, one way.

    Like I've said before people increasingly don't want to see militaristic displays, don't want to take their kids to it, and want no part of the typical air show (not yours) that is basically a display of death from above killing prowess.

    Airshows are, and should be, rendered to the scrapheap of history. Deplorable displays that to me are obscene. I dare say a lot of people that don't express their thoughts, but simply always stay away feel very similarly.

    I'm glad this was cancelled. Jmo that it should be permanently cancelled.
    Hey **** ****** if it wasnt for those miltary units you would be ******* speaking german right now you dolt have some ******* respect for what our men and woman did you twatwaffle
    You're generally not worth a reply of any kind but I'll humor your post long enough to correct that the First WW and its conditions and reparations and calamity was the precedent, if not the cause of the 2nd WW and as almost any historian recounts. The First WW was contrived nonsense largely to feed the military and industrial machine driving it. If that particular war did not occur another would be invented.

    Most if not all wars since have been the product of military repression, intervention, interference, or in Imperial, or world powers meddling in regional global politics.
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-08-2019 at 05:13 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  46. #146

    Default

    Replacement, please take your comments to a relevant thread and maybe call it "I demand that everyone become Amish"...



    Amish take over Ontario GM site; expect to complete cleanup & rebuild by Friday
    By David Yoder, Digital Services Manager
    ONTARIO -- Ontario, rejoice, those prayers have been answered.

    According to unnamed sources, an army of homespun denim will descend upon the acres of concrete, grass and rubble that was once the General Motors site along West Fourth Street to begin a new chapter. The Amish have reportedly decided to end the ongoing saga by selecting the site for an undisclosed project.

    Details surrounding the project are shrouded in mystery but our investigative team was able to talk to a few locals who’ve had limited exposure to the project.


    Local Facebook groups lit up early last week after reported late-night buggy activity picked up in Richland Bank’s Ontario branch. Reports of the brethren loading and unloading crates and burlap sacks.

    Richland Bank spokesperson Kristie Massa noted, "Per rules and regulations, I cannot speak to the specifics of the transactions nor can I confirm nor deny the social media reports of 'buggy fulls of gold bullion.' ”

    Rumors of escalating Amish activity in the region began earlier this year when Geauga County Amish physically lifted a barn and relocated it.

    There is no word on whether relocation or residential zoning is a factor in the current project. But what we do know is that the project will be swift and ambitious.

    Local freight contractor Robby Lash confirmed an order of 45 semi trucks full of lumber and equipment will start arriving later this afternoon through Wednesday. Per a non-disclosure agreement, he was unable to comment on specific use.

    At this time, it's unclear whether the project will see complete removal of all the concrete and rubble at the site or simply see some adaptation or re-use. Experts project this will make the difference of about 2 to 3 hours on the timeline.

    Technology consultant Jeff Heyde was seen scouring the grounds for any remaining technology and swiftly removing anything in violation of Amish order and beliefs.

    "We will be hiring a number of Amish tech proxies in the coming weeks," Heyde said. "You will be able to send a text message or email to any one of the businesses or organizations to an independent line and it will be scribed into a handwritten note."

    When pressed on the issue of diverse and varying approaches and beliefs within different Amish districts and how they'll interact, Heyde quickly took the fifth amendment.

    "What happens in the brotherhood; stays in the brotherhood. I'm sure it'll all be sorted out."
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 12-08-2019 at 05:32 AM.
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  47. #147

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Not sure I buy that gate sales were going to be the huge push at an event as far away as Villeneuve and with very little interest in the event itself. Even if I had the slightest interest in attending, its 2hours away, one way.

    Like I've said before people increasingly don't want to see militaristic displays, don't want to take their kids to it, and want no part of the typical air show (not yours) that is basically a display of death from above killing prowess.

    Airshows are, and should be, rendered to the scrapheap of history. Deplorable displays that to me are obscene. I dare say a lot of people that don't express their thoughts, but simply always stay away feel very similarly.

    I'm glad this was cancelled. Jmo that it should be permanently cancelled.
    Hey **** ****** if it wasnt for those miltary units you would be ******* speaking german right now you dolt have some ******* respect for what our men and woman did you twatwaffle
    You're generally not worth a reply of any kind but I'll humor your post long enough to correct that the First WW and its conditions and reparations and calamity was the precedent, if not the cause of the 2nd WW and as almost any historian recounts. The First WW was contrived nonsense largely to feed the military and industrial machine driving it. If that particular war did not occur another would be invented.

    Most if not all wars since have been the product of military repression, intervention, interference, or in Imperial, or world powers meddling in regional global politics.
    You may be right on many points here but none of it’s going to go away. There were incredible numbers of wars long before WWI for all kinds of reasons. Look at every continent where there is no production/greed driven military machine and you’ll see wars going on back through history. Every society had warriors and many if not all honoured them especially during successful expansionary periods of conquest. Here in NA the indigenous peoples had wars and invasions, warriors and slavery. Just as technology like the stirrup was adopted / embraced by militaries elsewhere, NA’s tribes utilized horses and guns as soon as those technologies became available to them to give them an advantage over their neighbours.


    As for the Amish (Swiss - German origins) they were fleeing religious persecution and were lucky enough to be able to settle in NA as part of the colonizing peoples commuting genocide of some sort against the many indigenous peoples. (Refugees = Settlers = Invaders ...)
    Last edited by KC; 12-08-2019 at 07:03 AM.

  48. #148

    Default

    Villeneuve is 2 hours away?


    according to the googie maps, its 32 minutes from downtown.


    but making being wrong an artform since 2006 was the former signature of the poster that suggested as such.


    Even Tofield to
    Villeneuve is only 1 hour

  49. #149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    [COLOR=#333333]Villeneuve is 2 hours away?


    according to the googie maps, its 32 minutes from downtown.
    It takes longer than 2 hours to get to Villeneuve from Edmonton by high speed rail
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  50. #150

  51. #151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Villeneuve is 2 hours away?


    according to the googie maps, its 32 minutes from downtown.


    but making being wrong an artform since 2006 was the former signature of the poster that suggested as such.


    Even Tofield to
    Villeneuve is only 1 hour
    I don't live DT. You know that.

    But I don't drive anymore and I even said that in the thread so getting to Villeneuve Airport would take a very longtime if there even was public transportation access from City limits or St Albert.

    Its close to an hour from my place by vehicle under typical traffic load conditions (I'm the furthest point in the city that its possible to be away from Villeneuve, and then requires taking the shuttle, From Villeneuve, to the Airshow site and waiting for said shuttle. Thus the estimated 2hrs. If no considerable wait times maybe 1.5hrs. But for these huge events usually there is wait times for the shuttles and line ups to take them, as well as extra traffic getting to them.

    For instance if you go to Heritage Festival anytime, by shuttle, you would know this.

    Tofield to Villeneuve Airport is around 70mins and that assuming zero traffic load on SouthWest Henday. Google maps gives you best possible times it seems with no traffic load factored in. Try actually doing it some time. Google map travel times are fictional at best.
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-08-2019 at 12:43 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  52. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Not sure I buy that gate sales were going to be the huge push at an event as far away as Villeneuve and with very little interest in the event itself. Even if I had the slightest interest in attending, its 2hours away, one way.

    Like I've said before people increasingly don't want to see militaristic displays, don't want to take their kids to it, and want no part of the typical air show (not yours) that is basically a display of death from above killing prowess.

    Airshows are, and should be, rendered to the scrapheap of history. Deplorable displays that to me are obscene. I dare say a lot of people that don't express their thoughts, but simply always stay away feel very similarly.

    I'm glad this was cancelled. Jmo that it should be permanently cancelled.
    Hey **** ****** if it wasnt for those miltary units you would be ******* speaking german right now you dolt have some ******* respect for what our men and woman did you twatwaffle
    You're generally not worth a reply of any kind but I'll humor your post long enough to correct that the First WW and its conditions and reparations and calamity was the precedent, if not the cause of the 2nd WW and as almost any historian recounts. The First WW was contrived nonsense largely to feed the military and industrial machine driving it. If that particular war did not occur another would be invented.

    Most if not all wars since have been the product of military repression, intervention, interference, or in Imperial, or world powers meddling in regional global politics.
    You may be right on many points here but none of it’s going to go away. There were incredible numbers of wars long before WWI for all kinds of reasons. Look at every continent where there is no production/greed driven military machine and you’ll see wars going on back through history. Every society had warriors and many if not all honoured them especially during successful expansionary periods of conquest. Here in NA the indigenous peoples had wars and invasions, warriors and slavery. Just as technology like the stirrup was adopted / embraced by militaries elsewhere, NA’s tribes utilized horses and guns as soon as those technologies became available to them to give them an advantage over their neighbours.


    As for the Amish (Swiss - German origins) they were fleeing religious persecution and were lucky enough to be able to settle in NA as part of the colonizing peoples commuting genocide of some sort against the many indigenous peoples. (Refugees = Settlers = Invaders ...)
    I'm surprised (but shouldn't be) that anybody even debates the notion of air conveyance being unsustainable. Thanks for the sensible reply, Margaret Mead and several others studied war and aggression extensively. there have been some peoples that have been peace like. War is a basic result of greed and or not having enough perceived available resource. War like aggression is most often in pursuit of limited or valuable resource.

    As we live in a time of relative peace at least in the Western World we can reflect that it is possible to live war free. The only Wars that have occurred in my lifetime have not been occurring anywhere near Canada. Excepting the cold war which was largely a détente stand off that ended unexpectedly well. Because as Sting put it best, it appears everybody involved did love their children..

    We're in uncharted territories of relative peace in the Northern Hemisphere. In the midst of that I think it possible to revaluate humanities assumed warrior mentality.
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-08-2019 at 12:41 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  53. #153
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
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    Sorry to see a bit of dimentia setting in Replacement. Starting to experience a bit of it myself too. This getting older sucks. 🙂

  54. #154

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    Please pray for Replacement.

    Has a GoFundMe site been set up?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  55. #155

  56. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Please pray for Replacement.

    Has a GoFundMe site been set up?
    Hey go ahead, throw money at me. But I'm a bad consumer, I don't know what I'd spend it on. Weird Al concerts?

    Getting old sucks a little bit. Its taken some of my crankiness away. heh
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  57. #157

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    I’m so sad this happened. But understandable, safety first.

    I bought tickets and will use them next year. I even gifted a set to the Consul General of Ukraine. Airshow fans will remember when the MiG-29 from Ukraine visited North America in 1992 for the first time.

    And every show was the same story...the Ukrainian military is so broke they are selling uniform badges to pay for the fuel. Young Air Cadets lapped it up!

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