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Thread: Montreal REM

  1. #1

    Default Montreal REM

    So Montreal's Reseau Express Metropolitan (REM) has been under construction since 2016. It's probably the single biggest rail project in Canada right now in scale, if not dollar value, but has been surprisingly quiet despite the impact it will have to the region.

    A short rundown on the stats:

    Total length: 67 km
    Number of stations: 26
    Frequency (peak/non-peak): 5/15 mins (2.5/5 mins for downtown tunnel)
    Operating hours: 5 am - 1 am, 7 days per week
    Max Capacity: 780 people per 4 car trainset
    Projected ridership: 200,000/day
    Cost: 6.3 Billion CAD

    Some selling points:

    Fully grade separated!
    Driverless trains!
    Network-wide Wifi!
    Seamless transfers to Bus/Rail/Metro!
    Platform Screen Doors!

    The network will be opened in phases from 2021-2023:




    The REM is Montreal's answer to the 'missing middle' option between regional commuter rail and urban metro service. While it is referred to as light rail in both official and press media, it and the Skytrain are more properly defined as 'Medium Rail Transit' systems. The system length is some 67 km long at full buildout, comparable to that of the entire Skytrain network prior to the Evergreen extension opening, but with around half the number of stations at 26. This shouldn't come as much of a surprise as the REM is, at its core, a conversion of commuter rail to metro operations.

    Schematically, the REM comprises the following:

    - The 31 km Deux-Montagnes trunk line, a conversion of the existing commuter rail line of the same name, as well as the Mount Royal tunnel through downtown;
    - The 15 km South Shore branch, which is a new-build extension of the trunk line from Central Station to the South Shore suburbs and crossing the St. Lawrence River on reserved lanes in the new Champlain bridge;
    - The 16 km Saint-Anne-De-Bellevue branch, which resurrects the Doney spur line to provide metro service to the West Island suburbs; and
    - The 5 km Airport branch, a new-build spur to YUL.

    The trainsets are the driverless Alstom Metropolis sets, the same type used in the Sydney Metro (another commuter-to-metro conversion of similar scope), but in a four car configuration rather than Sydney's six (two cars during non-peak). The system will be constructed to handle future increases in capacity and frequency to suit ridership demands and is also the biggest P3 project in Quebec's history at 6.3 billion dollars. The contracts are split into two main packages, EPC for construction/design and TSSOM for operations/maintenance; both were awarded to consortiums led by SNC-Lavelin.
    Last edited by Foolworm; 19-02-2019 at 05:33 PM.

  2. #2
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    Montreal is spread out with the island and the suburbs on both sides of the St. Lawrence. This could be helpful.
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    I spent some time in Montreal last summer. That Gare Central is something else!

    But YUL has been looking for this train connection for a long time:
    https://journalmetro.com/actualites-...val-airport-2/

  4. #4

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    I just back from a week in Montreal. Gare Centrale is great. Conference at the Queen Elizabeth and stayed at the Bonaventure of the other side of the station. Both connected to Underground City. Lots of people. Open through the night. Never felt the least bit concerned about safety. Funny how in Montreal the huge Underground City and the surface sidewalks can bothe be full of people, even at -20 and yet in Edmonton both seem empty at the best of times.

  5. #5

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    Montreal is a different class of city. Honestly, if my French wasn't half bad, I'd try to move there.

    It has a much more cohesive feel as a city than Toronto or Vancouver.

    For a city of its size, commutes aren't that bad and living is affordable.

    They made great infrastructure decisions back in the 60s and 70s and have a great network in terms of commuter rail, metro and freeways. Although it's starting to crumble...also cue "equalization"

  6. #6

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    Back in the 60s and early 70s, Montreal was the largest city in Canada. The financial capital, the insurance capital, the fashion & shopping capital, the center of shipping, rail and manufacturing in Canada. Then the combination of the opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway, the Quiet Revolution, the political unrest, sovereignty and the resulting exodus of unilingual English speaking workers and businessmen in the mid-70's sealed Montreal's status in Canada.

    Since then, the city has grown by one million while Toronto grew by 3 million.

    I really enjoy living in Montreal for the past 6 years even though I only speak English. I get by very well except on occasion in the east end of Montreal or in the countryside. My wife is from Montreal and is totally bilingual. I am glad that the REM line is being built as one station will be within walking distance and will increase the value of my home. It will allow us to go downtown or many parts of the city without using a car.
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  7. #7

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    They're putting in a huge plaza at Place Ville Marie, right across from the Queen Elizabeth. Much more open than the one in the Ice district will be.

    I'm always equal parts amused and disappointed when you get people in Alberta bashing Quebec as being unfriendly. The people couldn't have been nicer. Even when their English isn't all that great, they went out of their way to be helpful. Of course, a bonjour or merci from us went a long way as well.

    And one great thing, downtown at least, is a relative lack of chain restaurants. Lots of places with great sandwiches and other baked goods and we only saw one Tims. The local places are fresher and have a much greater selection. Nice contrast to Edmonton where people think that the chains coming in is a good thing.

  8. #8

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    Montreal's REM line going fast forward. They have already assembled the first of two, 550 ton 100 meter long elevated assembly cranes.

    https://mtltimes.ca/Montreal/uncateg...-claire-video/

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  9. #9

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    The COE LRT bosses always state that building elevated or underground costs 3 times as much as at grade.

    Well, contrary to that mantra, Montreal is build 13.4 km of elevated line to fast track construction, reduce congestion during and after construction, and keep costs low.
    Trains on the network will be fully automated and driverless, and it would become the fourth longest automated transportation system in the world,


    REM crews using advanced techniques to quickly build kilometres of elevated tracks
    https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/rem-crew...acks-1.4472083

    Stefan Balan is leading the construction of the spurs that will reach Trudeau airport and Ste. Anne de Bellevue.

    "This was chosen after a very meticulous process of analysis so given the fact that we are building a very long alignment, a 13.4-kilometre bridge if you want, from here [in St. Laurent] to Ste. Anne de Bellevue, this method proved to be the optimal one," said Balan.


    Using traditional building techniques it would have taken about three weeks just to do each section of the structure.


    Instead Balan said that by using the gantry currently in St. Laurent, and a second one that is slowly heading west from Pointe-Claire, it should take about three weeks to build the entire support structure consisting of more than 4,000 concrete segments out to the Ste. Anne station.
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    One would be very naive not to think that the Poutine eating Mob bosses in that Mafia cesspool wouldn't add "incidental billions" to the overall price tag.......research what the Boston mafia added to the "set price tag" of their "Big Dig."

  11. #11

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    Even with the Poutine eating Mob bosses , why are construction costs not 300% more like the Beef eating Mob bosses in that COE Administration cesspool keep stating?

    The $6.3 billion project will extend and branch the current line, adding 14 stations 37 kilometers of automated line with ZERO at grade crossings will be added to the existing 29.9 km and the existing lines will be upgraded and automated with revamps of several stations. Existing sections will also have some double track added. Max line speed will be 100kph and 212 automated Alstom Metropolis vehicles will be used. At least 13.4 km of elevated lines, 3.5km of tunneling are required.



    One of the underground stations will be very, very deep.

    20 metres down, 50 more to go: Crews make way for Édouard-Montpetit REM station
    Station will be about 21 storeys below Montreal for the incoming light-rail network

    70 meters down through solid granite




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  12. #12
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    ^ ^^^

    it looks like a lovely system. it should be at roughly 94 million per km.

    edmonton's valley line west is estimated to come in at roughly 31 million per km and includes more stations per km.

    how is that not three times as much?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^ ^^^

    it looks like a lovely system. it should be at roughly 94 million per km.

    edmonton's valley line west is estimated to come in at roughly 31 million per km and includes more stations per km.

    how is that not three times as much?
    That's kind of what I was wondering.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  14. #14

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    um, here's the actual breakdown.
    rem: 6.3 billion divided by 67km is approx. 94 million per km
    valley line (entire line): 4.5b divided by 27km is approx 166m per km (west phase 2 is $190m per km). ($2.67b divided by 14km)

    and the winner is?? rem!
    Last edited by thatguy; 19-06-2019 at 08:29 PM.

  15. #15

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    How so?

    Edmonton's valley line (phase 1) to Millwoods is 13.1 km long and costs $1.8 billion. If my calculator is working correctly, that is $137.4 million per kilometer.

    The 14 km west phase 2 to Lewis Estates is estimated at $2.7 billion. Getting out my calculator, that works out to $192.9 million per kilometer. And none of the trains are automated and much of the line includes at grade crossings that interfere with normal traffic, pedestrians and slow the average speed to about 32kph and lowers frequency of service as well as capacity.

    Can you show us your math calculations and data sources on how you got such a low cost of $31m per km?

    Sources
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Line_(Edmonton)
    https://www-cbc-ca.cdn.ampproject.or...-lrt-1.5034573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    How so?

    Edmonton's valley line (phase 1) to Millwoods is 13.1 km long and costs $1.8 billion. If my calculator is working correctly, that is $137.4 million per kilometer.

    The 14 km west phase 2 to Lewis Estates is estimated at $2.7 billion. Getting out my calculator, that works out to $192.9 million per kilometer. And none of the trains are automated and much of the line includes at grade crossings that interfere with normal traffic, pedestrians and slow the average speed to about 32kph and lowers frequency of service as well as capacity.

    Can you show us your math calculations and data sources on how you got such a low cost of $31m per km?

    Sources
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Line_(Edmonton)
    https://www-cbc-ca.cdn.ampproject.or...-lrt-1.5034573
    I accidentally calculated costs based off 440 million dollars. Based off the first google search I did. That however, is the cost increases based off elevating sections of the line and increasing the size of the Lewis Farms Park and Ride. Ken mighta done the same thing.

    Muh baaad.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  17. #17

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    I used to support LRT construction when it was economical. Our first line cost $65m for 8 km with three above ground stations and two large underground. I supported it all the way to the UofA even as costs rose. The UofAH station and beyond, I did not support. The whole 'shovels in the ground' NAIT line fiasco was one of the most expensive, slowest and most underutilized lines in the world. The net benefit of the valley line will certainly be negative but it will keep the unionized bus drivers working and maintain their transit monopoly.

    There has to be a better way to move people economically and I support the gondola project and hope it is as successful as other urban gondolas in other countries.
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  18. #18
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    ^ ^^ ^^^

    muh baaad also.

    i also used the city's reported total cost of $440 million without noting that they are only reporting the city's total cost and not the total project cost.

    which only makes the fact that you still won't be able to take the new lrt to lewis estates and get to the new 1/4 billion dollar lewis estates rec centre without a very long outdoor walk carting all your gear outside or waiting to haul it on and off a shuttle bus even sillier.
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    I do think it's difficult to compare the capital expenditures of two different mass transit projects without opening the books however. Some cities do not factor in operational costs over a set term the way that the CoE has for this system. Maybe the REM has done this as well? However I heard Translink out west does not.
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  20. #20

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    If either phase cost $440 million I would be all for the line.

    But they do not. $1,800 million and $2,700 million respectively. $4,500 million total.

    No matter, Edmonton was sold on an idea that high floor LRT was getting too expensive and Streecars would be less expensive. I was there when our stakeholder group on the Trolley vs Hybrid Diesel Bus debate was told that the future was Streetcars. They used the Hybrid Buses as a False Flag Operation to destroy the 127 km electric trolley network. Hybrid Diesel was a complete failure.

    As we all know, low floor streetcars systems are no cheaper to construct or operate and interfere with existing traffic and pedestrians. Also, they cannot share the fleet or garage on other routes that are high floor.

    Meanwhile, Montreal is building an efficient high volume integrated 3 branched line with grade separation allowing high frequency automated vehicles at 3 minute frequency that can be uprated if demand warrants it. The REM line also utilizes an existing line that will be upgraded to autonomous use. This is exponentially more than Edmonton is getting and makes the Metro line Thales issue a complete joke as it lowers the frequency and reliability of the Capital line, a two branch system.



    Looks like the Poutine eaters will have a better system with automation and grade separation, built for similar costs per km and you can't blame it on that there is an Oil Boom causing construction costs to be higher in Edmonton.

    Edmonton is and has been taken on a ride and I am not speaking about transit, a ride to the cleaners for sure.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 20-06-2019 at 07:37 AM.
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  21. #21

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    Again, most of this is along existing rail ROW.
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  22. #22

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    Not really. I explained that already and only about half , not most. The whole west line is new as with the south extension.

    Moreover it includes double tracking a portion of the existing line, making upgrades to existing stations, the line and major upgrades to signaling, automation and grade separation. It also includes the purchase of an entirely new fleet of 212 rail cars. The whole REM system will be automated

    Maybe go back and reread my informative posts and links.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Not really. I explained that already and only about half , not most. The whole west line is new as with the south extension.

    Moreover it includes double tracking a portion of the existing line, making upgrades to existing stations, the line and major upgrades to signaling, automation and grade separation. It also includes the purchase of an entirely new fleet of 212 rail cars. The whole REM system will be automated

    Maybe go back and reread my informative posts and links.
    Can't criticize you for not having enough "passion" about this topic.....

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    Me, I could care less how much it costs, 1 million, 1 billion, 1 trillion, when it comes down to brass tax - it's only money.....

  25. #25

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    I guess if your last name is Gates or Rockefeller
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Not really. I explained that already and only about half , not most. The whole west line is new as with the south extension.

    Moreover it includes double tracking a portion of the existing line, making upgrades to existing stations, the line and major upgrades to signaling, automation and grade separation. It also includes the purchase of an entirely new fleet of 212 rail cars. The whole REM system will be automated

    Maybe go back and reread my informative posts and links.
    Correct. About 8km of line follows a highway on the west end of the island. The rest of the line...

    Like you said "only 'about' half" is in a ROW.. which is the majority. The only non-ROW sections are right Downtown, the airport, and the western-most section along the highway. I wish we had that in Edmonton.
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  27. #27

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    Conners road, is that not city owned ROW? Are not 66th street, 75th street, 83rd st. and 85th st. as well as 95th Ave not COE ROW?

    As my well sourced previous posts indicate, they are building 13.4 km of elevated line, not 8 km. As also stated before, there is a 3.5 km new tunnel to the airport.
    That alone is 16.9 km of either elevated or underground line. If the average cost of the total Edmonton Valley line is $166M/km and allowing for the partial grade separation, the average approximate cost per kilometer of at grade streetcar line is about $130m/km. Using the COE Administration mantra, that elevated or underground routes cost 3 times as much, simple math would mean that the mean cost would be $390M/km. If we apply that to even just a portion of the Montreal REM line, 16.9 km @ $390M/km = $6.591 Billion.

    But the cost is only $6.3 billion for the entire 67 km network with the additional 12 kilometers of new line to the south shore plus tunneling downtown. This does not include the upgrades to the existing line and 212 car fleet of automated high speed transit.

    Edmonton gets a sloth slow streetcar that is barely faster than the buses that they replace while Montreal gets an automated, high frequency, high speed LRT system for less money per kilometer.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 20-06-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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  28. #28

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    *rail as per comment. Yes I wish we had existing rail ROWs for our LRT for it would be easier for building infrastructure and separating rail from existing roads. Like in Montreal and Vancouver.
    Last edited by GenWhy?; 20-06-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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  29. #29

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    Reread my response. The ROW is not rail ROW for over 33 km of the 37km of network additions to the 29.9 km of existing network.
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  30. #30

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    How is the line not rail ROW for about 50% of the line's route?
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  31. #31

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    Half is not most and only less than 4 km of the expansion is rail ROW of the 37 km of new line.

    Do you have a history of reading comprehension issues? You had state other errors like that 8 km was along a highway, which actually is mostly situated outside the service road. Moreover you do not acknowledge the other errors in your comparison that the Edmonton Valley line is mostly along COE ROW and does not have to acquire that from the railway companies. Also you might not be aware that Stoney Plain Road is an old railroad alignment.

    We can argue over many issues but the core issue is that other cities such as Vancouver and Montreal can build an elevated Automated LRT line for the same or less than Edmonton's sloth slow streetcar. In fact the abominable Metro line is one of the most expensive LRT lines in North America per kilometer.

    I have witnessed the fast pace of construction of Vancouver's elevated LRT and now watch the fast pace of the Montreal REM elevated line and the minimal disruptions that it causes to commuters and shake my head why the COE lies to people that elevated LRT cost 300% more than what they are building.

    Don't you ever see that you are paying more for less or just enjoy it?
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  32. #32

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    I take it that 4km is the old tunnel under Mont Royal? As per Deux-Montagnes to under Mont Royal is that not an existing rail ROW?
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  33. #33

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    It's going along the.. what's it.. Exo line?
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  34. #34

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    I think we know how rail and road ROWs differ and it would've been wonderful if Edmonton had development cetnred around old Rows as Vancovuer and Montreal does (interurban from the turn of the 20th century).
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  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    I take it that 4km is the old tunnel under Mont Royal? As per Deux-Montagnes to under Mont Royal is that not an existing rail ROW?
    Do I have to explain this a THIRD time????

    Read carefully that 29.9 km of the line exists and 37 km of new line is to be built.

    The 100 year old tunnel is part of the existing 29.9 km of the RTM's Deux-Montagnes and Mascouche lines use the Mount-Royal Tunnel as I already described. The catenary and electrical system will have to be replaced and new signalling systems installed to allow the the use of the automated Alstom Metropolis trains. As also shown previously, they are digging the 2nd deepest station in North America with a huge shaft 70m deep into solid granite.


    Inside the Mount-Royal Tunnel: Excavation makes way for modern REM line
    https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/inside-t...line-1.4143600





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  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Me, I could care less how much it costs, 1 million, 1 billion, 1 trillion, when it comes down to brass tax - it's only money.....
    If money is not a problem for you, certainly ROI must be. The REM will be completely grade separated and automated for around the same cost as our most at-grade crossings/not automated line.

    seems like our return on investment doesnt fetch the same results a montreal is able to...

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    *rail as per comment. Yes I wish we had existing rail ROWs for our LRT for it would be easier for building infrastructure and separating rail from existing roads. Like in Montreal and Vancouver.
    We DO have rail rows we could use and other right of ways set aside for decades, but the current administration in this city is all too gung-ho about pushing LRT routes down the most expensive corridors possible.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    I take it that 4km is the old tunnel under Mont Royal? As per Deux-Montagnes to under Mont Royal is that not an existing rail ROW?
    Do I have to explain this a THIRD time????

    Read carefully that 29.9 km of the line exists and 37 km of new line is to be built.

    The 100 year old tunnel is part of the existing 29.9 km of the RTM's Deux-Montagnes and Mascouche lines use the Mount-Royal Tunnel as I already described. The catenary and electrical system will have to be replaced and new signalling systems installed to allow the the use of the automated Alstom Metropolis trains. As also shown previously, they are digging the 2nd deepest station in North America with a huge shaft 70m deep into solid granite.


    Inside the Mount-Royal Tunnel: Excavation makes way for modern REM line
    https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/inside-t...line-1.4143600





    Exactly. Along existing rail ROW. We're agreeing with one another. I wish this was the fact in Edmonton. We're unfortunately a post-50s and auto-centric city with lots of lovely roads and low density and strip malls and isolated monoculture zoned areas especially industrial
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  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    I think we know how rail and road ROWs differ and it would've been wonderful if Edmonton had development cetnred around old Rows as Vancovuer and Montreal does (interurban from the turn of the 20th century).
    The original LRT line followed the rail line to downtown. The COE had opportunities to use the High Level Bridge, the CP ROW south and the old Northern Alberta Railway (bought by CN) from downtown and then goes up the 121st alignment. Obviously Edmonton had far fewer rail line compared to Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto or Vancouver which were larger cities when the railways were in their golden age.

    As an example, in 1911 Edmonton did not even rank in the top 10 cites in Canada by population
    Montreal 618,000
    Toronto 521,000
    Vancouver 162,000
    Ottawa 107,000
    Winnipeg 136,000
    Edmonton 25,000

    Edmonton has missed several opportunities to share or make agreements with the railways to use the limited amount of ROW.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Me, I could care less how much it costs, 1 million, 1 billion, 1 trillion, when it comes down to brass tax - it's only money.....
    If money is not a problem for you, certainly ROI must be. The REM will be completely grade separated and automated for around the same cost as our most at-grade crossings/not automated line.

    seems like our return on investment doesnt fetch the same results a montreal is able to...
    Some serious Hobby train guys arguing this "REM" aka "Losing My Religion," thing Montreal is getting - I don't even know what ROW stands for/is - don't care. Bottom line, let them have it. Is it the automation "thing" that gives everyone bulges in their pantolones?

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    Holy!!! I just realized that REM, ROI and ROW are 3 different things - and are all being tossed around like we're all a bunch of acronym junkies.....

  42. #42

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    I'll REMember that...
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  43. #43

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    Yes let them have it. As a typical Edmonton attitude we are satisfied with the subpar. We are okay with spending more and receiving less

  44. #44

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    I agree with you Medwards, subpar


    Substandard design changes to leave the bolted plates in place rather than the original seamless welded design



    Milner Library siding and final design not like the pretty images approved by Council


    Metro Line at grade crossings, signal fiasco and reduction in Capital line frequency
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  45. #45

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    Descending Returns on Investment

    Interesting map from Montreal that teaches a lesson for future Edmonton LRT expansion

    The map clearly shows how as the distances of transit lines gets longer and the costs of building LRT goes up exponentially, the returns of paying customers becomes weaker and weaker. Also it increases the need for LRT station parking to allow commuters to drive to a station.

    As the old mantra of regularly scheduled buses; Bus drivers endless going in circles, hoping to fill a bus with passengers, often not.

    The LRT building mantra; As the system grows, there are fewer and fewer passengers per kilometer as density decreases.




    Walksheds Visualized:
    Showing Population and Places of Work within Walking distance of Montreal Rail Stations
    http://www.cat-bus.com/category/map/







    Downtown is insane


    One thing I noticed when adding workplaces to the map is just how many people work downtown, and how important they are. When considering just population, Cote-Sainte-Catherine was the station with the most density around it, 28,000 people. Once you add in work places, the combined total reaches 160,000 for McGill and Gare Centrale. Those stations are incredible trip generators!



    Downtown Montreal.


    According to the STM’s data, McGill and Berri-UQAM are actually the busiest stations. I believe that the census data did not consider the universities as ‘places of work’ for students. So McGill, Concordia, Berri-UQAM and Udem possibly each have another several tens of thousand students nearby who are not accounted for in the census data.


    <snip>


    What about proposed stations?

    I’m a little bit concerned that the transit projects that we have in the pipeline right now don’t consider walkability enough. The Blue Line extension appears to do okay, about as well or maybe a bit better as the Eastern Branch of the Green line.




    The REM stations on the other hand, being almost exclusively along highways, really don’t connect to much within walking distance. We hear how important the Technoparc Saint-Laurent is, with 7,000 workers — but if we compare that to the metro stations, it’s obvious that it’s really a small number.





    Even stations in predominantly residential areas will have that many places of work, even though most of their surrounding area is for housing. And really, the Technoparc just a suburban office park, of supposedly ‘cleantech’ firms, but the area mostly consists of parking. In fact, if you work in one of those places, your car gets more space than you do:


    Technoparc Saint-Laurent: worthy of a rapid transit stop?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  46. #46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I agree with you Medwards, subpar


    Substandard design changes to leave the bolted plates in place rather than the original seamless welded design

    ...
    Except the finished bridge looks not at all like the photo above.

    Source: https://twitter.com/ExploreEdmonton/...30131699077120

    Also it's good form to credit the photos that you post.

  47. #47
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    Default

    Deleted.
    Last edited by SP59; 24-06-2019 at 01:35 AM.

  48. #48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Except the finished bridge looks not at all like the photo above.

    Source: https://twitter.com/ExploreEdmonton/...30131699077120
    Nice picture

    Still see the plates dispite a coat of paint.

    The design was supposed to be smooth welded joints but the contractor cheaped out, did subpar workmanship and the COE let them get away with it.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 22-06-2019 at 09:41 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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