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Thread: New Zealand Christ Church Right Wing Terror Attack

  1. #1

    Default New Zealand Christ Church Right Wing Terror Attack

    Maker's rest to the worshippers at two mosques in Christ Church, New Zealand murdered by right-wing, racist terrorists today. Here's the Global article on the attack. Four people are in custody, including one Australian.

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    It's so very upsetting, they now say 40 are dead.,48 injured..I'm listening to Ched. Drex is from Australia, and has family in Christchurch. He's been in touch with many of the media, and has gone live to Christchurch..we heard their PM taking questions...
    They said three men and one woman had been arrested, but they expect more. They were on a white surpeminist forum, it was a very detailed attack, with bombs under the cars of the shooters, one shooter is from Australia..and was on a forum there...hate feeding off hate
    None of these terrorists were on any lists..or on anyone's radar, but this had been planned for a long time,..they took down the 17 minute video one shooter put on SM...Those that viewed it, said it was a very coordinated attack..
    The men killed, were praying, just praying..
    Devastating..
    Last edited by H.L.; 15-03-2019 at 01:06 AM.

  3. #3

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    What religion were the shooters?

    The mass shooting in New Zealand was designed to spread on social media - The Verge

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/15/1...a-manipulation
    Last edited by KC; 15-03-2019 at 07:08 AM.

  4. #4

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    ^ here are the answers to your questions


    A man who claimed responsibility for the attack wrote a manifesto referencing "white genocide" driven by "mass immigration."

    The manifesto said guns were used to stoke the 2nd Amendment debate in the U.S., and called President Trump a "symbol of renewed white identity"
    https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/ne...-live-updates/

    Photos of the equipment show names of extremist and historical figures written on some of the equipment.

    One of the names was Alexandre Bissonnette, the man who killed six people in an attack on a Quebec City mosque
    .

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nz-mos...know-1.5057734

    Many times posters have complained about having threads about Trump and US politics on the C2E Forum. They claim it has nothing to do with Edmonton or that people are obsessed against Trump.

    After the tragedy in New Zealand where 50 innocent people lost their lives to white nationalists who claim that called President Trump a "symbol of renewed white identity", you see that we cannot hide our head in the sand and hope that the evil that Trump inspires will not affect us. We cannot give extremists of any color or religion nor of political power or privaledge, any quarter to express their views of hatred, xenophobia and racism. I for one will conine to be outspoken against such people and ideas and those that are their apologists.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 15-03-2019 at 07:42 AM.
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  5. #5

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    I asked what religion they were.

    I was wondering if they were Christian extremists, Hindu extremists? etc. White supremists and extreme nationists are additional ideologies.

    If this were an attack on a Christian church, the religious background of the attackers would be one of the first questions that media would try to report on. That and whether they were foreigners, immigrants or native born.

  6. #6

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    Did you miss the part "White supremacists" which sort of excludes the possibility that they were Hindu extremists, doesn't it?



    Whether they were Christian extremists or subgroups like Protestant or Catholic or Methodist or not even have a religious bent, they could be atheists for that matter, their real religion was one of hatred and were not following any of Christ's teachings. White supremacy, xenophobia and extremist nationalism are their core principles of hate.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Did you miss the part "White supremacists" which sort of excludes the possibility that they were Hindu extremists, doesn't it?



    Whether they were Christian extremists or subgroups like Protestant or Catholic or Methodist or not even have a religious bent, they could be atheists for that matter, their real religion was one of hatred and were not following any of Christ's teachings. White supremacy, xenophobia and extremist nationalism are their core principles of hate.
    Of course they are Christian. What else would the be? Here's an excerpt from the contemptible manifesto of one of the accused: “Let our lives be stronger than death to fight against the enemies of the Christian people.” (reference)

    I for one am fed up with Christ's teachings, Allah's teachings, and all teachings that seem to do nothing but create artificial differences between scarcely-distinguishable people resulting in repulsive acts like this. If Christ were alive today he would quickly become an atheist.

    I am also fed up with mainstream right wing parties both in Alberta and around the world that have created a political milieu that provides terrorists such as these the opportunity to veil their hatred in a cloak of legitimacy.

  8. #8

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    Like these guys from the Alberta yellow vest protests that the UCP have been supporting and conveniently ignoring the parts they don't like instead of speaking out against.

    This weekend in Edmonton, protesters wearing bright yellow vests will gather at the Alberta legislature. Just like they did last weekend, and every weekend before that for the past month.


    "No point making all those beautiful signs if nobody gets to see 'em," an organizing group said in a Facebook post about plans for Saturday's rally. "Looking forward to our biggest turnout yet."


    Some protesters may stand at the podium shouting conspiracy theories about how powerful Jewish families control the world, as one man did at a rally at the Alberta legislature on Jan. 5.


    Some may sport red "Make Alberta Great Again" hats while recording the crowd with their cell phones, in an effort to be their own media.

    Others may prowl on the sidelines dressed like they belong to a biker gang. Only instead of Hells Angels patches, they have "Wolves of Odin — Canadian Infidels" sewn onto the back of their leather jackets.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...erta-1.4974721

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    NZ doesn't have a ban on military style weapons, maybe they will now,.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Like these guys from the Alberta yellow vest protests that the UCP have been supporting and conveniently ignoring the parts they don't like instead of speaking out against.
    ...
    It's a short journey from messages like the one below to the terrorists' manifesto.

    Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...mers-1.4993394

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    Yet the mass shooting in a mosque, was done in Quebec, and why are they never mentioned?
    Muslims can't wear head coverings etc etc..Quebec appears to be very anti Muslim.

  12. #12

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    No, in quebec head coverings are allowed, but a ban on wearing them in government positions is being considered and has support.

    Maybe they are more anti-muslim than here but mostly I think that they're less concerned with being nominally progressive.
    There can only be one.

  13. #13

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    So it seems certain that one terrorist was an immigrant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    No, in quebec head coverings are allowed, but a ban on wearing them in government positions is being considered and has support.

    Maybe they are more anti-muslim than here but mostly I think that they're less concerned with being nominally progressive.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...inds-1.4577746

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Yet the mass shooting in a mosque, was done in Quebec, and why are they never mentioned?
    Muslims can't wear head coverings etc etc..Quebec appears to be very anti Muslim.
    WHAT???!!!

    Are you saying that the Quebec Mosque shooting is being covered up? You obviously don't follow the news. Well maybe in Alberta but here in Quebec, the Mosque shooting of 2017 is still regularly being discussed.

    And yes, Quebec politicians, especially with their rural constituents are playing with fire and pandering to xenophobia and islamophobia. Most people in rural communities have never talked to a Muslim or a Jewish person. Rural Alberta has the same history as with many other regions in other provinces and states. Just ask Jason Kenny or Andrew Scheer, Roy Moore and Donald Trump.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 15-03-2019 at 11:22 AM.
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Did you miss the part "White supremacists" which sort of excludes the possibility that they were Hindu extremists, doesn't it?



    Whether they were Christian extremists or subgroups like Protestant or Catholic or Methodist or not even have a religious bent, they could be atheists for that matter, their real religion was one of hatred and were not following any of Christ's teachings. White supremacy, xenophobia and extremist nationalism are their core principles of hate.
    Of course they are Christian. What else would the be?.
    No self respecting Christian kills 49 people in cold blood just like no self respecting Muslim would....
    People should remove religion from it apart from the fact these people were at worship. The denomination or the belief doesnt, or at least shouldn’t, matter

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    So it seems certain that one terrorist was an immigrant.
    Can you clarify and provide context?

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Like these guys from the Alberta yellow vest protests that the UCP have been supporting and conveniently ignoring the parts they don't like instead of speaking out against.
    ...
    It's a short journey from messages like the one below to the terrorists' manifesto.

    Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...mers-1.4993394
    Everything on that list is a misrepresentation of the truth. Anyone believing such B.S. should have their head examined.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Yet the mass shooting in a mosque, was done in Quebec, and why are they never mentioned?
    Muslims can't wear head coverings etc etc..Quebec appears to be very anti Muslim.
    You mean like Jason Kenney?

    Jason Kenney defends niqab ban at citizenship ceremonies on Twitter
    'Confusing his personal beliefs with his obligations as a minister of the Crown,' lawyer says

    Zunera Ishaq, a Pakistani woman now living in Mississauga, is suing the Conservatives, arguing the ban violates her Charter rights by failing to accommodate her religious beliefs.


    Niqabs are worn by some Muslim women in public areas and in front of adult males who are not relatives.


    In a Federal Court hearing Thursday in Toronto, one of her lawyers accused Kenney of imposing his own ideology on citizenship ceremonies when he imposed the ban unilaterally in late 2011 in an operational manual.


    At the time, Kenney said the niqab represented a view of women that is unacceptable in Canada.


    Lorne Waldman, a co-counsel for Ishaq, scoffed at Kenney's public defence, pointing out that the Citizenship Act does not require people to be seen or heard taking the oath.


    "Jason Kenney can believe in anything he wants as a private citizen, " he said in an interview on Friday.


    "But the minister is confusing his personal beliefs with his obligations as a minister of the Crown. As a minister of the Crown, he has to uphold the laws, and not only was the policy change he made unauthorized, it's inconsistent with existing laws and with the Charter."


    He added it was "unusual" for Kenney to weigh on a matter before the courts.


    "One would expect at this point for the minister to wait for the court process to unfold," he said

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jas...tter-1.2803642
    He of the belief that citizenship ceremonies are so important that he had his government department stage a fake one for Sun News?

    Kenney refuses to apologize for fake citizenship broadcast, blames bureaucrats
    A fake citizenship ceremony broadcast last fall on Sun News was the result of “logistical problems,” Immigration Minister Jason Kenney said Thursday in the House of Commons, amid much laughter

    “What the minister should have done is tell any news outlet that wants to fake a story to go jump in a fake lake,” NDP immigration critic Don Davies retorted following Kenney’s response in a reference to the controversial, $57,000 fake lake prop purchased for the G8 Summit in Muskoka in 2010.


    “Instead they played along, once again putting Conservative photo ops ahead of getting things done for Canadians,” the Opposition MP said.


    Earlier, Davies called for a mea culpa and apology from Kenney which the Liberals echoed during question period.


    He suggested the minister was a hypocrite for cracking down on “bogus refugees” only to take part in a “bogus” citizenship ceremony.


    “There were something like 13 legitimate ceremonies in Ontario at that time and all the minister of immigration had to do is direct Sun Media to attend one of those legitimate ceremonies for legitimate footage and the minister didn’t do that,” he said.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...es-bureaucrats


  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Yet the mass shooting in a mosque, was done in Quebec, and why are they never mentioned?
    Muslims can't wear head coverings etc etc..Quebec appears to be very anti Muslim.
    Excuse me if I totally ignore you opinions as you often post some of this sites most horrific biased opinions. Often flirting with, if not lovingly embracing, hate.

    All of Canada has issues with hate... the founder of rebel media has strong ties to Alberta, Alberta was the one that threatened to deny me my right to marry to appease the base of the then “progressive” conservatives.
    Maclean’s names Winnipeg as possibly Canada’s most racist city, Thunder Bay has many unanswered questions regarding deaths of its aboriginal population and the list goes on and on.....

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    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/kelly-...sm_a_23438196/

    There are many links like this, yet it's seldom mentioned.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    So it seems certain that one terrorist was an immigrant.
    Can you clarify and provide context?
    Per the newspaper, though they don’t say if he was a New Zealander born in Australia, so maybe he wasn’t an immigrant.


    Christchurch mosque massacre: At least 49 butchered in day of infamy - NZ Herald

    “The main shooter was identified by Australian police as ... Australian-born man, who uploaded to his Twitter account before the shooting a manifesto explaining his intentions.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12213150

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/kelly-...sm_a_23438196/

    There are many links like this, yet it's seldom mentioned.
    I find it deeply amusing that you often rally against the horrible leftist yet you are quoting the huffington post as if it isn’t extreamly biased, to the left.

    You are nothing but opportunistic and inflammatory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    So it seems certain that one terrorist was an immigrant.
    Can you clarify and provide context?
    Per the newspaper, though they don’t say if he was a New Zealandrt born in Australia, so maybe he wasn’t an immigrant.


    Christchurch mosque massacre: At least 49 butchered in day of infamy - NZ Herald

    “The main shooter was identified by Australian police as ... Australian-born man, who uploaded to his Twitter account before the shooting a manifesto explaining his intentions.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12213150
    kC, where does it say the shooter was an immigrant? Sorry, I'm not seeing that..
    I just heard other places were also planned, two plus years planning this..take those hateful websites down!
    And ban those assault rifles!!!

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Yet the mass shooting in a mosque, was done in Quebec, and why are they never mentioned?
    Muslims can't wear head coverings etc etc..Quebec appears to be very anti Muslim.
    Excuse me if I totally ignore you opinions as you often post some of this sites most horrific biased opinions. Often flirting with, if not lovingly embracing, hate.

    All of Canada has issues with hate... the founder of rebel media has strong ties to Alberta, Alberta was the one that threatened to deny me my right to marry to appease the base of the then “progressive” conservatives.
    Maclean’s names Winnipeg as possibly Canada’s most racist city, Thunder Bay has many unanswered questions regarding deaths of its aboriginal population and the list goes on and on.....
    I think you need to substantiate your own apparent hatred. I must have missed the relevant H.L.’s postings. As such I see you spewing degenerate hatefulness towards H.L. ( I do have recollection of H.L.’s Conservative political party favoritism.)

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    So it seems certain that one terrorist was an immigrant.
    Can you clarify and provide context?
    Per the newspaper, though they don’t say if he was a New Zealandrt born in Australia, so maybe he wasn’t an immigrant.


    Christchurch mosque massacre: At least 49 butchered in day of infamy - NZ Herald

    “The main shooter was identified by Australian police as ... Australian-born man, who uploaded to his Twitter account before the shooting a manifesto explaining his intentions.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12213150
    kC, where does it say the shooter was an immigrant? Sorry, I'm not seeing that..
    I just heard other places were also planned, two plus years planning this..take those hateful websites down!
    And ban those assault rifles!!!

    I may be wrong. I thought I’d read that he was in the country for a few years but I can’t find such a reference. So is the correct label: foreign national?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Yet the mass shooting in a mosque, was done in Quebec, and why are they never mentioned?
    Muslims can't wear head coverings etc etc..Quebec appears to be very anti Muslim.
    Excuse me if I totally ignore you opinions as you often post some of this sites most horrific biased opinions. Often flirting with, if not lovingly embracing, hate.

    All of Canada has issues with hate... the founder of rebel media has strong ties to Alberta, Alberta was the one that threatened to deny me my right to marry to appease the base of the then “progressive” conservatives.
    Maclean’s names Winnipeg as possibly Canada’s most racist city, Thunder Bay has many unanswered questions regarding deaths of its aboriginal population and the list goes on and on.....
    I think you need to substantiate your own apparent hatred. I must have missed the relevant H.L.’s postings. As such I see you spewing degenerate hatefulness towards H.L. ( I do have recollection of H.L.’s Conservative political party favoritism.)

    Thank you KC, I'm a conservative, but I believe in gay rights I'm pro choice, I am a fiscal conservative. I don't hate many people. except for those that put words in my mouth or posts, that aren't there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    So it seems certain that one terrorist was an immigrant.
    Can you clarify and provide context?
    Per the newspaper, though they don’t say if he was a New Zealandrt born in Australia, so maybe he wasn’t an immigrant.


    Christchurch mosque massacre: At least 49 butchered in day of infamy - NZ Herald

    “The main shooter was identified by Australian police as ... Australian-born man, who uploaded to his Twitter account before the shooting a manifesto explaining his intentions.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12213150
    kC, where does it say the shooter was an immigrant? Sorry, I'm not seeing that..
    I just heard other places were also planned, two plus years planning this..take those hateful websites down!
    And ban those assault rifles!!!

    I may be wrong. I thought I’d read that he was in the country for a few years but I can’t find such a reference. So is the correct label: foreign national?
    I'm not sure KC..I've watched some reporting, but as usual, they are just going around and around.
    I'll wait now, until all the facts are known..

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    So it seems certain that one terrorist was an immigrant.
    Can you clarify and provide context?
    Per the newspaper, though they don’t say if he was a New Zealandrt born in Australia, so maybe he wasn’t an immigrant.


    Christchurch mosque massacre: At least 49 butchered in day of infamy - NZ Herald

    “The main shooter was identified by Australian police as ... Australian-born man, who uploaded to his Twitter account before the shooting a manifesto explaining his intentions.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12213150
    kC, where does it say the shooter was an immigrant? Sorry, I'm not seeing that..
    I just heard other places were also planned, two plus years planning this..take those hateful websites down!
    And ban those assault rifles!!!

    I may be wrong. I thought I’d read that he was in the country for a few years but I can’t find such a reference. So is the correct label: foreign national?
    I'm not sure KC..I've watched some reporting, but as usual, they are just going around and around.
    I'll wait now, until all the facts are known..
    Yeah I thought several shooters were involved or other enabling people were involved but not sure now.

    I’m not sure if it’s appropriate to post videos, pictures, names or faces. So much can be wrong. Obviously my understanding of the Australian’s status and proper labelling was uncertain (immigrant, tourist, visa holder...) Also I don’t like the idea of promoting a killer in any way by posting his name or face so I eliminated the guy’s name from the quote I used above.

    Police urge people to stop sharing that Christchurch shooter video online

    https://mashable.com/article/shootin...-christchurch/
    Last edited by KC; 15-03-2019 at 11:54 AM.

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    I wish they could stop that video sharing, KC. 17 minutes of horror, he used a go pro, he must feel so proud..

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Yet the mass shooting in a mosque, was done in Quebec, and why are they never mentioned?
    Muslims can't wear head coverings etc etc..Quebec appears to be very anti Muslim.
    WHAT???!!!

    Are you saying that the Quebec Mosque shooting is being covered up? You obviously don't follow the news. Well maybe in Alberta but here in Quebec, the Mosque shooting of 2017 is still regularly being discussed.

    And yes, Quebec politicians, especially with their rural constituents are playing with fire and pandering to xenophobia and islamophobia. Most people in rural communities have never talked to a Muslim or a Jewish person. Rural Alberta has the same history as with many other regions in other provinces and states. Just ask Jason Kenny or Andrew Scheer, Roy Moore and Donald Trump.
    Wow that comment on rural Albertans is really predudiced and ignorant.

  32. #32

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    The one suspect who has been named so far was born in Australia of European ancestry. So--just like all Australians of European ancestry--from a family of immigrants to Australia. By extension, he is also an immigrant to New Zealand.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...hurch-shooting

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Yet the mass shooting in a mosque, was done in Quebec, and why are they never mentioned?
    Muslims can't wear head coverings etc etc..Quebec appears to be very anti Muslim.
    WHAT???!!!

    Are you saying that the Quebec Mosque shooting is being covered up? You obviously don't follow the news. Well maybe in Alberta but here in Quebec, the Mosque shooting of 2017 is still regularly being discussed.

    And yes, Quebec politicians, especially with their rural constituents are playing with fire and pandering to xenophobia and islamophobia. Most people in rural communities have never talked to a Muslim or a Jewish person. Rural Alberta has the same history as with many other regions in other provinces and states. Just ask Jason Kenny or Andrew Scheer, Roy Moore and Donald Trump.
    Wow that comment on rural Albertans is really predudiced and ignorant.

    You expected something different. My mil lives in a rural area, she helps with hall weddings, or the receptions, of every faith .She delights at 88, in learning about new foods, new faiths and meeting new people.
    Last edited by H.L.; 15-03-2019 at 03:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    The one suspect who has been named so far was born in Australia of European ancestry. So--just like all Australians of European ancestry--from a family of immigrants to Australia. By extension, he is also an immigrant to New Zealand.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...hurch-shooting

    His people? What a jerk! ..thank you for this link, I had no idea the manifesto was so long..

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    The one suspect who has been named so far was born in Australia of European ancestry. So--just like all Australians of European ancestry--from a family of immigrants to Australia. By extension, he is also an immigrant to New Zealand.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...hurch-shooting
    Christian extremist?

    Christchurch mosque shooting: Gunman posts manifesto detailing reasons for attack

    “Posting on an 8chan forum, a user who identified himself as Tarrant announced he would carry out the attack.

    “I will carry out and attack against the invaders, and will even live stream the attack via facebook,” he wrote, with a link to his Facebook page. “If I don’t survive the attack, goodbye, godbless and I will see you all in Valhalla!”

    Many anonymous users responded praising him for the attack, with comments like “Godspeed” and “that video is so goddamn good”. ...”

    https://www.news.com.au/world/pacifi...607a9ec426a734

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Yet the mass shooting in a mosque, was done in Quebec, and why are they never mentioned?
    Muslims can't wear head coverings etc etc..Quebec appears to be very anti Muslim.
    WHAT???!!!

    Are you saying that the Quebec Mosque shooting is being covered up? You obviously don't follow the news. Well maybe in Alberta but here in Quebec, the Mosque shooting of 2017 is still regularly being discussed.

    And yes, Quebec politicians, especially with their rural constituents are playing with fire and pandering to xenophobia and islamophobia. Most people in rural communities have never talked to a Muslim or a Jewish person. Rural Alberta has the same history as with many other regions in other provinces and states. Just ask Jason Kenny or Andrew Scheer, Roy Moore and Donald Trump.
    Wow that comment on rural Albertans is really predudiced and ignorant.
    Don't blame me, I am just reporting on well known published articles.

    Political thinkers weigh in on Trumpism and the future of Alberta politics
    https://www.thestar.com/edmonton/201...-politics.html
    However, the rise of populism should still be a concern for Albertans, said Givens. The province has a real divide between people who live in cities and those who live in rural areas. For many years, farmers in Alberta had a lot of political power, but those days are coming to an end. If folks in rural Alberta start to feel left behind, Trumpism has an opportunity, said Givens.

    “It’s people in rural areas, it’s people who were formerly well-employed in manufacturing jobs that are no longer there,” Givens said.


    “They may be less educated, less able to transition to new opportunities, and so I think there is a rural population — and even in the cities, a blue-collar, former manufacturing population — that is going to be possibly open to these kind of appeals.”


    This theory also surfaces in Stephen Harper’s book, Right Here, Right Now — and an excerpt from it recently appeared in the National Post. It dealt with the rise of populism, and the former Canadian prime minister said the movement is the way of the political future.

    Aryan Nations burned a cross in Provost, Alta. in 1990. Alberta's far-right extremist groups past and present are under the microscope after the violent white supremacist demonstration in Charlottesville, Va. MIKE STRUCK PHOTO

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...-extreme-right

    Quebec balked at investigating systemic racism, but some groups went ahead anyway. Here's what they found
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...oups-1.4630113
    Mohamed Soulami, head of Actions interculturelles, a community group based in Sherbrooke, said jobs aren't the only thing to consider when it comes to the integration of minorities.Employment, he said, is like water for fish — it's necessary, but doesn't ensure their survival. He said the xenophobia faced by minorities, particularly in rural areas, can make it difficult to access services and opportunities in education.
    His group's report found that more than 70 per cent of immigrants left the Eastern Townships between 1986 and 2016.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 15-03-2019 at 12:57 PM.
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    Pretty disappointed that Andrew Scheer couldn't bring himself to utter the words "Muslim", "mosque", "white supremacist" or "terrorism" in his initial tweet on the attacks:

    "Freedom has come under attack in New Zealand as peaceful worshippers are targeted in a despicable act of evil. All people must be able to practice their faith freely and without fear."

    Freedom may have been under attack by evil in a philosophical sense, sure. But over here in the real world, it was Muslims who were killed by a white supremacist. Why is that so hard to say? Sure it was cleaned up later with his full statement, but given his recent history of playing footsie with Faith Goldy and other white nationalists/supremacists, if anyone needed to get their initial statement right, it was him. Even Andrew MacDougall who was Harper's communications director, had this to say:

    "Delete and try again. Name the place of worship. Name their religion. Put your arms around them. Condemn the specific pathology that drove their killer(s)."

  38. #38
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    Absolutely terrible news. My deepest sympathies to the families, and Christchurch.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  39. #39

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    Somebody really needs to explain the history of Australia and New Zealand (and Canada, America, etc.) to this guy. Also the meaning of irony.

    New Zealand Mosques Shooting Suspect Called Trump a 'Symbol of White Supremacy' and Claimed He Was Just a 'Regular White Man' Ensuring a 'Future for My People'

    According to Yahoo News, the alleged killer who live-streamed the attack identified himself as Brenton Tarrant. He claimed that he was motivated by “far-right extremism he saw in the United States to carry out the attack at Al Noor Mosque.”

    ---

    The manifesto said he carried out the attack “to show the invaders that our lands will never be their lands, our homeland are our own and that, as long as a white man still lives, they will NEVER conquer our lands and they will never replace our people” Yahoo News reports.

    https://www.theroot.com/new-zealand-...sym-1833323711

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    https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5057734

    He mentions Alexandre Bissonnette, who of course we know. Candace Owens( who I've never heard of) ..Merkel for letting so many immigrants in..and many many more people.

    The writer says he is not a member of any political group or movement....

    He sounds very unstable, it's a shame he didn't kill himself imho.

  41. #41

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    Cabdice Owens is an American right-wing commentator and Trump supporter.

    In April 2018, Kanye West tweeted "I love the way Candace Owens thinks."[19] The tweet was met with derision among some of West's fans.[20] In May 2018, President Donald Trump stated that Owens "is having a big impact on politics in our country. She represents an ever expanding group of very smart 'thinkers,' and it is wonderful to watch and hear the dialogue going on...so good for our Country!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Owens

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Somebody really needs to explain the history of Australia and New Zealand (and Canada, America, etc.) to this guy. Also the meaning of irony.

    New Zealand Mosques Shooting Suspect Called Trump a 'Symbol of White Supremacy' and Claimed He Was Just a 'Regular White Man' Ensuring a 'Future for My People'

    According to Yahoo News, the alleged killer who live-streamed the attack identified himself as Brenton Tarrant. He claimed that he was motivated by “far-right extremism he saw in the United States to carry out the attack at Al Noor Mosque.”

    ---

    The manifesto said he carried out the attack “to show the invaders that our lands will never be their lands, our homeland are our own and that, as long as a white man still lives, they will NEVER conquer our lands and they will never replace our people” Yahoo News reports.

    https://www.theroot.com/new-zealand-...sym-1833323711
    No kidding. Indigenous peoples have lived in Australia for at least 65,000 (sixty-five thousand) years. European settlement began 230 years ago. Who are the invaders again?

  43. #43

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    Meanwhile, the Australian right wing decides it's time to chime in.

    49 Dead and Dozens Wounded in New Zealand Terror Attacks That Were Livestreamed on Facebook

    Far right politicians in Australia placed the blame on Muslims rather than the white Australian terrorist who carried out the shooting.


    “The real cause of bloodshed on New Zealand streets today is the immigration program that allowed Muslim fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place,” Australian senator Fraser Anning tweeted after the attacks.


    “Does anyone still dispute the link between Muslim immigration and violence?” Anning said in another hateful tweet.

    https://gizmodo.com/49-dead-and-doze...ack-1833314365
    Apparently this is right in line for him though.


    Anning was elected in 2017 to represent a rural area of Queensland, and has a history of making inflammatory and racist comments. He was kicked out of his political party in October 2018 after he made an immigration speech in August questioning Muslim and non-English-speaking immigration, and called for a “final solution” to the problem, an apparent reference to Hitler.


    According to the Guardian, the right-wing populist Australian party One Nation condemned Anning’s statements at the time. Anning also defended his attendance at a “fascist” really in Melbourne in 2019.

    https://www.vox.com/2019/3/15/182670...ims-immigrants
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 15-03-2019 at 03:01 PM.

  44. #44

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    Trump says he does not see white nationalism rising after New Zealand mosque shooting
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/15/trum...-shooting.html
    President Donald Trump said on Friday he does not see a rise in white nationalism but it may be an issue in New Zealand, where a gunman who is believed to espouse those views killed 49 people at two mosques.

    Asked by a reporter if he sees an increase in white nationalism, Trump said: “I don’t really. I think its a small group of people.”


    Trump also said he had not seen a manifesto in whi
    Right Donald, keep your head in the sand and ignore the fact that white nationalism rising and is the greatest terrorist threat in the United States.

    Gotta hold on to your base...
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  45. #45

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    Meanwhile, the response from the White House turns tone deaf.

    Trump horrifies America as he pivots from condemning New Zealand terrorist to ‘inspiring the next’ attack

    On Friday, President Donald Trump showed his condolence for the mass shooting in a New Zealand mosque while simultaneously speaking hateful rhetoric about immigrants.


    Right after describing the New Zealand shooting as a “horrible horrible thing,” Trump pivoted to talking about the “invasion” of immigrants at the US border.


    “People hate the word invasion, but that’s what it is,” Trump said.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/twi...hese-monsters/

  46. #46

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    Well also today while Trump ignored the white nationalism threat, Trump vilifies immigrants at the southern border with a heavy dose of fear mongering.

    He called it a “reckless resolution” and said, “Congress’s vote to deny the crisis on the southern border is a vote against reality.”

    “It is a tremendous national emergency. It is a tremendous crisis,” Trump said.


    Trump claimed there was an “invasion” of migrants storming the US border.


    “People hate the word invasion, but that’s what it is. It’s an invasion of drugs and criminals and people, we have no idea who they are,” he said.


    Trump said that immigration detention centers were “bursting at the seams” but he was unwilling to release more people.


    “When you release them they come into our society and in many cases they’re stone cold criminals,” he said. “You have killers coming in and murderers coming in.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...t-live-updates
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  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Meanwhile, the response from the White House turns tone deaf.
    You give them way too much credit. When were they not tone deaf?
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    It's a shame we never hear about these churches... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ks_on_churches

    I saw this on another forum, did anyone hear of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_S...hurch_bombings

  49. #49
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    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/201...-brutal-attack



    Radical Muslims murdered more than 30 Christians in Nigeria last week.

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    It's a shame we never hear about these churches... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ks_on_churches

    I saw this on another forum, did anyone hear of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_S...hurch_bombings
    Yes, the Palm Sunday bombings were all over the news. I guess you missed or are you trying to suggest again that the media bias buries stories like David Pecker or Rupert Murdoch?

    I know f some of the other attacks as well as many were on the TV news, in newspapers and of course on the web. You know, just the same platform you found the Wiki link.

    Do you ever hear anything about this? https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ocity-in-yemen

    I bet not

    Yemen’s deepening crisis took a terrible human toll on Friday when a series of coordinated suicide bombings targeting mosques in the capital Sana’a killed 137 people and injured 345 others. At least 13 children were among the dead.

    A group claiming to be a Yemeni branch of Islamic State said that five suicide bombers had carried out a “blessed operation” against the “dens of the Shia”. The Badr and al-Hashoosh mosques were hit when they were packed with worshippers during noon Friday prayers.
    A March 2015 suicide bombing of two mosques (used mainly by supporters of the Zaidi Shia-led Houthi rebel movement), in the Yemeni capital of Sanaa, killed at least 137 people and wounded 300. The Sunni Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant movement claimed responsibility, issuing a statement saying: "Let the polytheist Houthis know that the soldiers of the Islamic State will not rest until we have uprooted them." Both the Sunni al-Qaeda and "Islamic State" consider Shia Muslims to be heretics.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia%E...unni_relations

    You know that there are far more sectarian strife and violence in Shia–Sunni relations than against westerners. Even with 24 hour cable news, here is only so much bandwidth to tell the world all that is going on. Watch the BBC World News for a day and you find more about what is happening in Africa in one day than you will learn on Fox New in a year.

    A lot of good things happened this week but as they say in the biz, "if it bleeds, it leads".

    I enjoy the levity of the CBC Daily Moment of the Day.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...olen-1.5055793
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  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/201...-brutal-attack



    Radical Muslims murdered more than 30 Christians in Nigeria last week.
    That is terrible and I wish all this violence would stop.

    I grew up watching the news on all the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland. Total dead: 3,532 Total injured: 47,500+ and that was between two "Christian" groups.



    Regarding your last past posts. Are you guys tag teaming to use whataboutism to deflect and deny that Trump is instigating more violence rather than trying to reduce it? His double standards are well known and are draw across color lines. He has race baited for decades. Even taking out full page newspaper ads to expound his fake information and false accusation for which he still holds. Remember his false accusations against Obama?

    Recognize the garish signature?



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centra...y_Donald_Trump
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    The closest I come to religion, is Buddhism. But in some forums, horrified by what happened in NZ, Christians also asked questions about the links I posted, they have seen nothing on the news, and JT hasn't said a word..

    Edmt prt, when I see your handle and KKs handle, I suspect this is yet another Trump thread( #450) I'm not interested..
    Last edited by H.L.; 15-03-2019 at 05:36 PM.

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    The closest I come to religion, is Buddhism. But in some forums, horrified by what happened in NZ, Christians also asked questions about the links I posted, they have seen nothing on the news, and JT hasn't said a word..
    You are a complete and utter liar.

    Spreading lies and expounding your obvious hatred of Justin Trudeau by making demonstratably false accusations.

    Do you wear you hatred jacket to bed?

    A simple web search

    In a statement, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau condemned Sunday's attacks, calling on the international community to "stand united in our efforts to stop those responsible and to fight against hate by embracing values of diversity, inclusion and peace."
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...gypt-1.4063081


    Shanifa Nasser · CBC News · Posted: Apr 09, 2017 8:14 PM ET | Last Updated: April 10, 2017

    Trudeau condemns 'deplorable' Pakistan bombing
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trudeau...bing-1.2833959
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 15-03-2019 at 08:01 PM.
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  54. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post

    Edmt prt, when I see your handle and KKs handle, I suspect this is yet another Trump thread( #450) I'm not interested..
    So basically, you don't think that the response of the American president, who the shooter said he used as inspiration is part of the story but that somehow, an attack in Nigeria, which had no connection with PM Trudeau, is the real story?

    Gotcha.

  55. #55

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    This is what the President of the United States said: "Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America; that's not the America I know. That's not the America I value. I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families. Some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America. Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America, they represent the worst of humankind, and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior."
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  56. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    It's a shame we never hear about these churches... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ks_on_churches

    I saw this on another forum, did anyone hear of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_S...hurch_bombings
    Something I’ll have to do sometime I’d compare Wikipedia approaches on such items. For instance is there a Christian attacks on Mosques listing?


    On this page mental health is discussed. Sobs natural question is: Is it given equal standing on a comparable Islamic or Hindu or whatever page?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    It's a shame we never hear about these churches... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ks_on_churches

    I saw this on another forum, did anyone hear of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_S...hurch_bombings
    Something I’ll have to do sometime I’d compare Wikipedia approaches on such items. For instance is there a Christian attacks on Mosques listing?


    On this page mental health is discussed. Sobs natural question is: Is it given equal standing on a comparable Islamic or Hindu or whatever page?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

    I started to read it, I'll finish it later. Thanks, KC.. I posted it on another forum.
    Before we left the UK, my then husband and I , were shot at by the IRA( long story) we were nearly home, so we hid in a doorway, I was so frightened..

    I also remember skinheads , and how ugly they were..smh..
    Last edited by H.L.; 15-03-2019 at 10:55 PM.

  58. #58

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    Keep in mind that Wikipedia is mainly just a bunch of guys on the internet posting crap that they selectively pick and value.

    Compare the approach taken on these two pages. I note a difference where mental health is given different prominence and the Christian terrorism page seem to use the “terrorists who claim Christian motivation” approach a lot more than on the Islamic page.

    Islamic terrorism
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

    Christian terrorism
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

    This “terrorists who claim Christian motivation” doesn’t appear to have a match on the Islamic page (do a simple word search on “claim” on both pages) but such suggestive disbelief/questioning of motivation seems to have been used seven or eight times in the writing used on the Christian terrorism page. You’ll see the: No sane or true Christian would comit terrorism stance taken in this thread too.
    Last edited by KC; 16-03-2019 at 03:47 AM.

  59. #59

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    Shooter claimed that Muslims were taking over New Zealand

    New Zealand's religious demographics

    49.0% Christian
    41.9% indicated that they had no religion

    Roman Catholicism (12.6%)
    Anglicanism (11.8%)
    Presbyterianism (8.5%)
    Other Christian (5.5%).
    Māori-based Ringatū and Rātana religions (1.4%)
    Hinduism (2.1%)
    Buddhism (1.5%)
    Islam (1.2%)
    Sikhism (0.5%)

    The facts speak for themselves.
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    I've been at a loss for the past day and a half about what to say about the tragic shooting in New Zealand. After reading many of the official statements, the one put out yesterday by Alberta Premier Rachel Notley best reflects my thoughts and feelings:

    “The coordinated and violent terrorist attacks on two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, are devastating. At least 49 people were killed, and many more injured, while they gathered to pray together.

    “On behalf of all Albertans, I offer my condolences to everyone affected by this act of terror – those who were at the mosques and Muslims around the world who mourn for the losses in their community and feel less safe today.

    “Albertans stand with you – I stand with you – and our hearts embrace you.

    “We know there is hate in the world but we can never forget that love is stronger. There are those who want to fan the flames of intolerance but that is not how Alberta was built. Today, as Alberta’s Muslim community gathers for Friday prayers, I want to thank the police officers and community members – people from all faiths and backgrounds – who have already stepped up to show love and support to help defend the sense of security that all of us expect and deserve. No one should feel unsafe because of where and how they worship.

    “Together, we must continue the fight against racism, hate, intolerance and religious persecution of all forms, including Islamophobia. Our diversity is our strength.

    “We are stronger together.”
    https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?x...73AB3DC5B2C03A

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    ^

    this:

    “...

    Together, we must continue the fight against racism, hate, intolerance and religious persecution of all forms, including Islamophobia. Our diversity is our strength.


    “We are stronger together.”

    thank you for sharing it.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Keep in mind that Wikipedia is mainly just a bunch of guys on the internet posting crap that they selectively pick and value.

    Compare the approach taken on these two pages. I note a difference where mental health is given different prominence and the Christian terrorism page seem to use the “terrorists who claim Christian motivation” approach a lot more than on the Islamic page.

    Islamic terrorism
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

    Christian terrorism
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

    This “terrorists who claim Christian motivation” doesn’t appear to have a match on the Islamic page (do a simple word search on “claim” on both pages) but such suggestive disbelief/questioning of motivation seems to have been used seven or eight times in the writing used on the Christian terrorism page. You’ll see the: No sane or true Christian would comit terrorism stance taken in this thread too.
    I've moved on, the people shot have a place in my heart..this is the world we live in.
    There needs to be more dialogue, but I don't see this happening.

  63. #63

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    Moving on may be a reflection of who got killed, who did the killing and of course where it happened.

    One, because this happened in a western nation it attracted a lot of media

    Two, because of the nature of the person committing the mass murder and those dying, I wonder if our society doesn’t dwell very long on the event. (The terrorism is commited by us against us. So there no external enemy to easily and permanently demonize.)

    In comparison, note how Trudeau’s supporters want to “move on” due to the discomfort of the potential AG interference allegations. When it’s your own tribe being tainted the tables are turned and all kinds of deeper thinking is desired. i.e. differentiations and nuances are highlighted. When it’s the other tribe, sweeping gross generalizations are deemed sufficient.)


    A bit more on the differences between the language used in the Wikipedia pages:


    Christian Terrorism
    In such cases the term Christian terrorism is problematic despite the claim that they are motivated by their religious beliefs.”

    Reason for claiming a Christian motivation

    Christianity can also be disengenusaly claimed as a motive to inspire followers or curry political favor or protection.

    “In these cases terrorists may identify themselves as Christian, but ...”

    The use of Christianity in this way serves as a legitimating device for violence and claims solidarity with a wider social group.

    they may also have a wholly individual theology that is unrecognizable as established christian dogma


    Mental health

    terrorists who claim Christian motivation

    Tactics of terrorists
    Terrorists who claim to have a Christian motivation can act alone or in groups

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

    Islamic Terrorism

    “Fethullah Gülen, a prominent Turkish Islamic scholar, has claimed (c.f. No True Scotsman) that "a real Muslim", who understood Islam in every aspect, could not be a terrorist.[105][106][107] There are many other people with similar points of view[108] such as Ahmet Akgunduz,[109] Harun Yahya[110] and Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri.[111]Huston Smith, an author on comparative religion, argued that extremists have hijacked Islam, just as has occurred periodically in Christianity, Hinduismand other religions throughout history. He added that the real problem is that extremists do not know their own faith.[112] “

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism
    Last edited by KC; 16-03-2019 at 09:10 AM.

  64. #64

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    Don't think that it couldn't happen here. Empty threats? Maybe. Perhaps the NZ shooter made or was inspired by such threats as well.

    RCMP aware of online threats against Alberta mosque posted around time of New Zealand shooting

    The RCMP says it is aware of online threats against a Fort McMurray mosque made on a controversial Facebook group at around the time of mass shootings at two mosques in New Zealand Friday that left at least 49 worshippers dead and dozens more wounded.


    The threats were made on the Yellow Vests Canada Facebook page, in the comments section of a post sharing a 2015 Globe and Mail article about the opening of a multicultural mosque in the Alberta city. Some Facebook users called for the Markaz ul Islam mosque to be burned down and blown up, while another called for the mosque to “have a pig roast on opening day;” pork is forbidden in Islam.


    Corporal Caroline Duval said the RCMP is aware of the social-media posts and takes “all such threats seriously.” She encouraged anyone with information about possible criminal threats to national security to immediately contact the RCMP.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/worl...d-around-time/

  65. #65

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    I think everyone is fully aware that:

    - there are nutcases everywhere in the world.

    - the internet is connecting nutcases around the world

    - the connected nutcases are developing, siloed, irrational ideologies through selective perception

    - the wacky ideologies are not only pessimistic fear mongering forecasts but are presented as inevitablilties under current conditions and trends

    - the internet is then propagandistically disseminating (importing and exporting) the wacky, weird, violent, foreign, predictive and pessimistic ideologies into domestic life

    - the wacky ideologies blame all misfortune on a select target

    - the target is subject to moronic generalizations* framing them as incapable of being individuals with independent, reasonable and rational thought (maybe because the nutcases lacked the capability of being individual with independent, reasonable and rational thought).

    - the wacky ideologies cause the nutcases to ignore local historical evidence of peaceful coexistence and overwhelmes then with fear and anger over a boogieman

    - the wacky nutcases can travel somewhere else even into other countries and other cultures and commit mass murder there (all the while hypocritically raging against immigrants and foreign influences).


    * as if all Muslims, Christians, Jews, left wingers, right wingers, etc etc etc are mindless clones and followers lacking any other other dimensions. Wacky ideologies simply can not tolerate the thought that there can be good people on both sides - one side HAS to be “evil”.
    Last edited by KC; 16-03-2019 at 08:45 PM.

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    * as if all Muslims, Christians, Jews, left wingers, right wingers, etc etc etc are mindless clones and followers lacking any other other dimensions. Wacky ideologies simply can not tolerate the thought that there can be good people on both sides - one side HAS to be “evil”.
    We were at the Jubilee tonight, we saw 'Come from away.' It's a pretty emotional journey, but when you see what a small place in Newfoundland can do( and huge kudos to them) , for all those people, all those races..it does your heart good. I think after 9/11, the world changed, and not for the better..

    Because it's such an emotional ride, I started to think of NZ, and the all the hurt so many families are feeling right now..I also thought of the parents, whose son did such a horrific, horrific thing..

  67. #67

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    Who were the good ones in Charlottesville the ones chanting "blood and soil" or the ones saying "Jews will not replace us" or perhaps the ones with the Swastika flags? So hard to tell these days. I'll just call them wacky.

  68. #68

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    People brought together through common humanity.

    Jewish group reciprocates kindness to the Muslim community in New Zealand after massacre

    When a gunman killed 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh last year, Muslim communities in the area raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the victims. Now the Jewish community in Pittsburgh is reciprocating the kindness after a massacre at two mosques in New Zealand.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/17/us/ne...rnd/index.html

  69. #69

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    Words matter, especially in support of the victims and condemning the attacker's ideology.

    Trump refuses to call out national extremists and white supremists.

    Trump’s New Zealand shooting response doesn’t use the word Muslim
    https://qz.com/1574282/trumps-new-ze...e-word-muslim/
    The Trump administration’s condolences have so far failed to use the word “Muslim” or “Islam.” Under Donald Trump, the US government has banned immigration from several Muslim-majority countries, sharply cut the number of Muslim refugees admitted, and used divisive language to criticize the Islamic religions’ nearly two billion followers, in sharp contrast to previous US presidents.
    nor people on his administration
    Secretary of State Mike Pompeo this morning (March 15) offered his “personal condolences to the Nation of New Zealand in the wake of the mosque attacks,” said “the United States condemns this hateful assault,” and pledged the US’s “unwavering solidarity with the government and people of New Zealand,” in a press conference this morning. But he never mentioned the Muslim community.
    Kirstjen Nielsen put out a longer statement that expressed condolences “for those affected by the attacks,” again without mentioning who they were, but also noted concerns America’s “Muslim-American communities may have.”
    White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders also mentioned “victims and their families” but not Muslims in a statement:
    Attorney general William P. Barr referred to religion in his statement, but avoided naming which religion had been targeted:
    Even first lady Melania Trump–who is not, of course, an elected official–failed to use the word “Muslims” or “Islam” in her condolence tweet to grieving “families”:

    On this side of the border

    Scheer criticized after New Zealand mosque attack statement neglects to mention the word ‘Muslim’
    https://globalnews.ca/news/5063385/s...attack-muslim/
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  70. #70

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    Happy St. Patrick's Day!



    Celebrate the great Irish immigration that helped build Canada and many parts of the the World!

    The Irish were despised by xenophobic residents in many places where they took refuge but the immigrants persevered and many now help new immigrants and refugees from all nations to make the same trek and settle in Canada.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_...rish_in_Quebec
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_diaspora
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  71. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Happy St. Patrick's Day!



    Celebrate the great Irish immigration that helped build Canada and many parts of the the World!

    The Irish were despised by xenophobic residents in many places where they took refuge but the immigrants persevered and many now help new immigrants and refugees from all nations to make the same trek and settle in Canada.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_...rish_in_Quebec
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_diaspora
    “were despised by xenophobic residents “

    You mean the indigenous First Nation people here?


    The Irish were also welcomed in some places as well however they came with nothing but disease and they came in massive numbers that overwhelmed the places they arrived at. Upwards of 100,000 in one year.
    Last edited by KC; 17-03-2019 at 09:53 AM.

  72. #72

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    Deleted duplicate post

  73. #73

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    The Irish were treated poorly. just as they had been by the English. Irish immigrants arrived in large numbers and in very poor condition, following the Great Hunger where between 1,000,000 and 1,500,000 died from starvation and disease. The Irish were unimportant to the English and although they could have provided food, they sat idly by and watched people starve. Irish left their beautiful homeland with the promise of land and money in the new land. The death ships were overcrowded, not nearly enough food and poor conditions. Their numbers overwhelmed quarantine facilities and many more died at Grosse Ile. Over 20,000 bodies were put out from the shore of the St Lawrence. Survivors supplied the cheap labour that fueled economic expansion, but they were poor and resented by the dominent society for the squalor in which they lived.

    The Irish were rich in cultural traditions, music, dance, story-telling and their language, which was banned by English law. They became one of the most agrarian groups of the 19th Century. They built the Rideau Canal in Ottawa and were prominent residents of Ontario and Quebec.
    https://www.quora.com/How-were-the-I...d-economically

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  74. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The Irish were treated poorly. just as they had been by the English. Irish immigrants arrived in large numbers and in very poor condition, following the Great Hunger where between 1,000,000 and 1,500,000 died from starvation and disease. The Irish were unimportant to the English and although they could have provided food, they sat idly by and watched people starve. Irish left their beautiful homeland with the promise of land and money in the new land. The death ships were overcrowded, not nearly enough food and poor conditions. Their numbers overwhelmed quarantine facilities and many more died at Grosse Ile. Over 20,000 bodies were put out from the shore of the St Lawrence. Survivors supplied the cheap labour that fueled economic expansion, but they were poor and resented by the dominent society for the squalor in which they lived.

    The Irish were rich in cultural traditions, music, dance, story-telling and their language, which was banned by English law. They became one of the most agrarian groups of the 19th Century. They built the Rideau Canal in Ottawa and were prominent residents of Ontario and Quebec.
    https://www.quora.com/How-were-the-I...d-economically

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment
    They were starving in their beautiful homeland. They were kicked off the land, the crops were exported and they had nothing. They were put on ships in huge numbers and so contracted disease which they carried into the receiving countries. They were dying on the voyage and overwhelmed services when they arrived.



    Here read this paper:



    “How did Canada receive these Immigrants? Naturally, and justly, a storm of protest arose from the Canadas, from the British North American Provinces. Widespread indignation was expressed at the callous indifference of the Imperial Government allowing this Irish Immigration to continue without trying in any way to prevent its attendant evils. ...official protest was made by the Canadian Parliament. Lord Elgin pointed out to Earl Grey, the Colonial Secretary, "the severe strain" placed on the loyalty of the people by the culpable negligence of the Home Government. "All things considered a great deal of forebearance has been shown by the colonists under this trial." ...

    “The reception of the Irish Immigrant in Lower Canada was generous. Money, food, clothing and supplies were cheerfully given. And more, they took the poor orphans, of whom there were approximately some 1,500 in Lower Canada, to their ...”

    “Montreal is but a counterpart of Grosse Isle; in fact, a common description can be applied to every fever shed from St. John, N.B., to Toronto. Mr. J. M. O'Leary, who made a deep study of Grosse Isle, says in his series of articles that he received a letter from a Mr. John Wilson who had charge of the steamboat ... forwarding some 80,000 Irish Immigrants from Grosse Isle to Point St. Charles, Montreal. ... He stated that the number of deaths occuring there was a disgrace to the government. Again we see the criminal herding of human beings together with little or no regard to sanitation and the dangers of contagion.


    “In treating of the Emigration of '47 and its accompanying typhus epidemic in Upper Canada I used photostat copies of the letters written to the Executive Council in Montreal by various officials. These letters are from State Book G in the Dominion Archives. The entire series of letters strike a similar note -- alarm at the arrival of so many indigent immigrants in various stages of typhus fever: permission requested to form Boards of Health: to erect hospital sheds: to increase medical staffs; to hire more help in the hospitals. Some of the letters are statements and hospital reports of those admitted, discharged, convalescent and dead. Invariably, sometimes delicately, sometimes bluntly, the Executive Council is reminded that this town or village, as the case may be, cannot bear the financial burden and bills of expense ...”

    http://www.umanitoba.ca/colleges/st_...Gallagher.html

    Lower Canada’s population was about 700,000 and upper Canada about 500,000. Newfoundland was about 100,000 .

    The immigration/refugee numbers were massive compared to the regional populations let alone those of the directly impacted towns.
    Last edited by KC; 17-03-2019 at 10:36 AM.

  75. #75

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    KC, I responded to you post that you then edited.

    I don't know what point you're trying to make.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  76. #76

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    Rush Limbaugh chimes in and claims that it's all a false flag. Audio available at the link,

    Rush Limbaugh suggests New Zealand shootings might be a false flag attack committed by a leftist to smear conservatives

    Another thing that happens here when these events happen, you have all kinds of speculation that erupts. And there is an ongoing theory -- Mr. Snerdley, correct me if I'm wrong about this. There's an ongoing theory that the shooter himself may in fact be a leftist who writes the manifesto and then goes out and performs the deed purposely to smear his political enemies, knowing he's going to get shot in the process. You know you just can't -- you can't immediately discount this. The left is this insane, they are this crazy. And then if that's exactly what the guy is trying to do then he's hit a home run, because right there on Fox News: "Shooter is an admitted white nationalist who hates immigrants."

    https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2...t-smear/223154

  77. #77

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    KC, I responded to you post that you then edited.

    I don't know what point you're trying to make.
    Making the point that they weren’t necessarily broadly dispised and there wasn’t broad xenophobia except in that the numbers overwhelmed the populations and resources.

    As for laws destroying their cultural traditions, yes, and that was common. Even today there are people and laws trying to force assimilation and discouraging and barring people from being able to use for instance their native languages official capacities etc.


    An over the border debate:

    Why historians are fighting about “No Irish Need Apply” signs — and why it matters - Vox
    https://www.vox.com/2015/3/17/822717...igrant-history

  78. #78

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    The Irish were not broadly despised in Canada nor are Muslims or other groups, even in the United States. BUT there were many places where Irish people were specific target of racial, religious and xenophobic hatred in both Canada and the US.

    There were many anti-Irish riots, anti-Catholic riots and even in Chicago, the Irish were vilified


    When America Despised the Irish: The 19th Century’s Refugee Crisis
    More than 150 years ago, it was the Irish who were refugees forced into exile by a humanitarian and political disaster.
    https://www.history.com/news/when-am...refugee-crisis

    Conflict between Protestants and Catholics in the United States had already broken out in violence before the first potato plant wilted in Ireland. Anti-Catholic, anti-Irish mobs in Philadelphia destroyed houses and torched churches in the deadly Bible Riots of 1844. New York Archbishop John Hughes responded by building a wall of his own around Old St. Patrick’s Cathedral in order to protect it from the native-born population, and he stationed musket-wielding members of the Ancient Order of Hibernians to guard the city’s churches. Wild conspiracy theories took root that women were held against their will in Catholic convents and that priests systematically raped nuns and then strangled any children born as a result of their union.

    The maltreatment of newcomers to the United States was, of course, hardly a cross for the Irish to bear on their own. However, while the number of German immigrants entering the United States nearly matched that of the Irish during the 1850s, the Irish were particularly vilified by the country’s Anglo-Saxon Protestants whose ancestors had explicitly made their exodus across the ocean to find a refuge from papism and ensure their worship was cleansed of any remaining Catholic vestiges. Feelings toward the Vatican had softened little in the two centuries following the sailing of the Mayflower.

    I still remember watching the nightly news in the 1970's which regularly showed the IRA and Irish Troubles, the ongoing civil war and how American's financed the IRA. The IRA was a terrorist organization that took people hostage, tortured them, crippled people, killing and bombing with great frequency and went as far as mortar bombing 10 Downing Street in London. One of the methods that was used was called 'kneecapping' or for short'capping'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneecapping
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provis..._Army_campaign
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downin..._mortar_attack

    There was anti-Irish sentiments even in Edmonton but there was also support for the IRA even with all the terrorism going on. Looking back, it is hard to rationalize the conflicting positions, the double standards, the concern for the Hunger Strikers', and many other issues during that period. The 70's were rife with homegrown terrorism in Spain, Italy, Quebec, France and all over with many hijackings, kidnappings, bombings and other terrorist incidents happening daily. New coverage was different then. The 11 pm news was 20 minutes long, newspapers only had so much space and there was not the 24 hour cable channels and the Internet we have today. 9/11 changed the world in many way more than people realize.


    How much did the Americans fund the Irish Republican Army?
    Eamon O'Kelly, New Yorker since 1981
    Assuming that you are referring to the Provisional IRA: while the total amount of money contributed by Irish Americans will never be publicly known, it was very significant. When American funding dried up following 9/11, the IRA had to put down their arms.
    https://www.quora.com/How-much-did-t...epublican-Army


    Learning From Terrorism Past
    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/o...rism-past.html
    In the 1970s and 1980s, terrorist attacks were a daily occurrence, and just as horrible and frightening as the threat later presented by Al Qaeda, and now by the Islamic State. From Ireland’s Irish Republican Army to Spain’s Basque separatist group Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, from France’s Action Directe to Germany’s Rote Armee Fraktion, to Italy’s Brigate Rosse and the Nuclei Armati Rivoluzionari, violent extremist political cells were almost the norm.
    According to the Global Terrorism Database, the years of terror peaked in 1979, with 1,019 attacks. Throughout the 1970s and 1980s the average was about 10 per week. Some 440 people were killed by terrorism in 1988, including 270 in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, by terrorists acting at the behest of the Libyan strongman Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.
    We can learn much about the plight of refugee's by reviewing history and apply it to today as new waves of refugees and immigration result in conflict, a rise in racism and nationalism.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  79. #79

  80. #80
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    asia
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    Writing and passing an anti-assault weapons law in two days is indeed impressive, if they did that.

    I'm not exactly sure how you pass comprehensive laws banning neo-nazis. Ask everyone at customs if they're a neo-nazi, and if they answer "yes", they get the boot? Pretty sure the neo-nazis will find a way around that. and anyway, it wouldn't do much to stop the racists who don't worship Hitler, ie. the vast majority.

    "Publically shamed Islamophobic politicians" isn't much of an accomplishment(I saw criticism galore of Trump when he attacked that family who spoke at the Democratic convention). And I can pretty much guarantee that there are very few racists who are going to say "Gee, my favorite anti-Muslim politician has been trashed in the media, guess I should stop supporting him." The fact that the politician is being attacked just adds to his image as a fearless truth-teller.

  81. #81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The Irish were not broadly despised in Canada nor are Muslims or other groups, even in the United States. BUT there were many places where Irish people were specific target of racial, religious and xenophobic hatred in both Canada and the US.

    There were many anti-Irish riots, anti-Catholic riots and even in Chicago, the Irish were vilified


    When America Despised the Irish: The 19th Century’s Refugee Crisis
    More than 150 years ago, it was the Irish who were refugees forced into exile by a humanitarian and political disaster.
    https://www.history.com/news/when-am...refugee-crisis

    Conflict between Protestants and Catholics in the United States had already broken out in violence before the first potato plant wilted in Ireland. Anti-Catholic, anti-Irish mobs in Philadelphia destroyed houses and torched churches in the deadly Bible Riots of 1844. New York Archbishop John Hughes responded by building a wall of his own around Old St. Patrick’s Cathedral in order to protect it from the native-born population, and he stationed musket-wielding members of the Ancient Order of Hibernians to guard the city’s churches. Wild conspiracy theories took root that women were held against their will in Catholic convents and that priests systematically raped nuns and then strangled any children born as a result of their union.

    The maltreatment of newcomers to the United States was, of course, hardly a cross for the Irish to bear on their own. However, while the number of German immigrants entering the United States nearly matched that of the Irish during the 1850s, the Irish were particularly vilified by the country’s Anglo-Saxon Protestants whose ancestors had explicitly made their exodus across the ocean to find a refuge from papism and ensure their worship was cleansed of any remaining Catholic vestiges. Feelings toward the Vatican had softened little in the two centuries following the sailing of the Mayflower.

    I still remember watching the nightly news in the 1970's which regularly showed the IRA and Irish Troubles, the ongoing civil war and how American's financed the IRA. The IRA was a terrorist organization that took people hostage, tortured them, crippled people, killing and bombing with great frequency and went as far as mortar bombing 10 Downing Street in London. One of the methods that was used was called 'kneecapping' or for short'capping'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneecapping
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provis..._Army_campaign
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downin..._mortar_attack

    There was anti-Irish sentiments even in Edmonton but there was also support for the IRA even with all the terrorism going on. Looking back, it is hard to rationalize the conflicting positions, the double standards, the concern for the Hunger Strikers', and many other issues during that period. The 70's were rife with homegrown terrorism in Spain, Italy, Quebec, France and all over with many hijackings, kidnappings, bombings and other terrorist incidents happening daily. New coverage was different then. The 11 pm news was 20 minutes long, newspapers only had so much space and there was not the 24 hour cable channels and the Internet we have today. 9/11 changed the world in many way more than people realize.


    How much did the Americans fund the Irish Republican Army?
    Eamon O'Kelly, New Yorker since 1981
    Assuming that you are referring to the Provisional IRA: while the total amount of money contributed by Irish Americans will never be publicly known, it was very significant. When American funding dried up following 9/11, the IRA had to put down their arms.
    https://www.quora.com/How-much-did-t...epublican-Army


    Learning From Terrorism Past
    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/o...rism-past.html
    In the 1970s and 1980s, terrorist attacks were a daily occurrence, and just as horrible and frightening as the threat later presented by Al Qaeda, and now by the Islamic State. From Ireland’s Irish Republican Army to Spain’s Basque separatist group Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, from France’s Action Directe to Germany’s Rote Armee Fraktion, to Italy’s Brigate Rosse and the Nuclei Armati Rivoluzionari, violent extremist political cells were almost the norm.
    According to the Global Terrorism Database, the years of terror peaked in 1979, with 1,019 attacks. Throughout the 1970s and 1980s the average was about 10 per week. Some 440 people were killed by terrorism in 1988, including 270 in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, by terrorists acting at the behest of the Libyan strongman Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.
    We can learn much about the plight of refugee's by reviewing history and apply it to today as new waves of refugees and immigration result in conflict, a rise in racism and nationalism.
    Instead of parallelism this is getting into material for its own thread but this is interesting:



    "As many as 450,000 Irish immigrants had already arrived in British North America (now Canada) before the first potato rotted in the soil of Ireland. Since the 1790s, Irish immigrants had settled in Upper Canada’s rich farmlands, built canals, established businesses in cities, and helped create the social and economic foundations of everyday life in this fledgling outpost of the British Empire."

    "... Between May and October of that year, 38,560 Irish Famine migrants arrived from Ireland at a time when the city’s population was just 20,000 people." ...

    "The most striking residual effect of “Black ’47” was the manner in which the local population would thereafter view all Irish through the single lens of this tragic moment. There would be no mistaking the hostility of locals to the Irish, whom they deemed more as a problem and an impediment to progress than as a blessing to their community. A decade later, The Globe ripped into the local Irish Catholic community, exclaiming, “Irish beggars are to be met everywhere, and they are as ignorant and vicious as they are poor. They are lazy, improvident, and unthankful; they fill our poorhouses and our prisons, and are as brutish in their superstition as Hindoos.” The “famine moment” left similarly powerful impressions upon the local Catholic population. Pre-famine Irish Catholic immigrants would come to identify the suffering of their brothers and sisters as a common suffering and, in time, the famine experience would become the touchstone for Irish identity in central Canada. Given the horrors that had transpired in the homeland and the trials of the new world, it is little wonder that the Irish came to see themselves in Canada as a people “more sinned against than sinning.” "

    http://irelandparkfoundation.com/fam...amine-history/



  82. #82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Writing and passing an anti-assault weapons law in two days is indeed impressive, if they did that.

    I'm not exactly sure how you pass comprehensive laws banning neo-nazis. Ask everyone at customs if they're a neo-nazi, and if they answer "yes", they get the boot? Pretty sure the neo-nazis will find a way around that. and anyway, it wouldn't do much to stop the racists who don't worship Hitler, ie. the vast majority.

    "Publically shamed Islamophobic politicians" isn't much of an accomplishment(I saw criticism galore of Trump when he attacked that family who spoke at the Democratic convention). And I can pretty much guarantee that there are very few racists who are going to say "Gee, my favorite anti-Muslim politician has been trashed in the media, guess I should stop supporting him." The fact that the politician is being attacked just adds to his image as a fearless truth-teller.

    I think it will just be a matter of the usual intelligence game with monitoring and assessing anyone that could be a risk.

    Maybe home countries need to assume more of the responsibility for who is allowed to leave the country if they could possibly comit violent acts among other things in foreign nations.

  83. #83

    Default

    New Zealand has not banned assault weapons yet. They are drafting legislation as we speak but will take a bit of time to be approved and voted upon.

    As I recall after the Cafe attack, Australia passed an assault weapons ban within 2 weeks.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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