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Thread: 2019 Provincial Election - Ethics

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    Default 2019 Provincial Election - Ethics

    With the 2019 election call, it is time to stop with the conversations pre election, and get down to debating actual platforms announced. This thread will deal with Ethics.
    Ow

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    To get at least one of these started, here is a news story from Global that fits this category.

    New fines issued over funding for Callaway’s UCP leadership bid on same day Alberta election is called
    Ow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    To get at least one of these started, here is a news story from Global that fits this category.

    New fines issued over funding for Callaway’s UCP leadership bid on same day Alberta election is called
    Not to shadow mod or anything, but is this really an issue related to platforms, as requested by your OP?

    It's a great topic to explore, but if we're assigning articles to relevant threads, I think it might be better under one devoted to corruption or maybe Kamikaze specifically?

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    Oh, sorry, just noticed the TITLE of the thread specifies ethics. The OP's call for "platform" discussion doesn't quite match that, but no big deal.

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    As delicious as this emerging scandal is, it's still debatable how much impact it's gonna have on the UCP's electoral fortunes. It didn't involve taxpayers' money, and in the final analysis, the only people who were really harmed by it were those who got involved in the UCP leadership race expecting a clean fight.

    So it's kind of the political equivalent of Elon Musk sparking up a doobie on the internet: yeah, as the head of a publically traded company, he owes it to his shareholders not to do that, but for any members of the general public, it's not likely to register as a big deal.

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    i find this perhaps the most interesting of the 2019 provincial election topics...

    without ethics, what value do any of the other topics have a chance to really contribute to our lives?

    shouldnít ethics be the one single overriding concern without which there are no acceptable options for any of the other topics?
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    Look south of the border. I'd say that your premise is flawed. We're not immune to looking the other way when we thing our candidate/party is in trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Look south of the border. I'd say that your premise is flawed. We're not immune to looking the other way when we thing our candidate/party is in trouble.
    feel free to speak for yourself, not for me...
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    Oh I see. You've never let something slide that you'd freely point out if it happened to a candidate other than your own?

    No candidate is perfect so unless you've never voted.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    [Ö] the only people who were really harmed by it were those who got involved in the UCP leadership race expecting a clean fight.
    [Ö]
    "The only people"??

    Those who ignore unscrupulous behaviour will get (in the form of elected officials) what they deserve. The fooling has been witnessed; prepare to accept the shame of the fooling redux.

    It's morbidly fascinating to watch the logical gymnastics or garish willful ignorance of card-carrying partisans eager to look the other way (e.g. soul-selling evangelicals) for their perceived ideals. Or the varied sliding ethical-rating scales so hypocritically applied.

    No one's perfect. But all sins are not created equal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Oh I see. You've never let something slide that you'd freely point out if it happened to a candidate other than your own?

    No candidate is perfect so unless you've never voted.....
    no candidate is perfect if you mean perfectly aligned on absolutely everything all the time. but that’s not my expectation. my expectation is that i will vote for the candidate who most closely aligns with my thinking on most things with one exception. and that’s ethics. without that, no alignment is sufficient to earn my vote. if you want to take the position that no one who runs for office is by definition ethical and deserving of a vote, you’re entitled to your opinion. and yes, i have not voted for candidates who you would probably classify as “mine” for that very reason. there is no “sliding” when it comes to ethics. you either have them or you don’t whether you’re a candidate or a voter.
    Last edited by kcantor; 20-03-2019 at 09:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Oh I see. You've never let something slide that you'd freely point out if it happened to a candidate other than your own?

    No candidate is perfect so unless you've never voted.....

    The fact that you would even ask such a repugnant question when he has already stated his moral position- coroberated with his grneral demeanor and tone on this board. Your question says a lot more about you though than anything Some of us do value some basic principle of honesty. which I hope you can accept.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 20-03-2019 at 10:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Oh I see. You've never let something slide that you'd freely point out if it happened to a candidate other than your own?

    No candidate is perfect so unless you've never voted.....
    no candidate is perfect if you mean perfectly aligned on absolutely everything all the time. but thatís not my expectation. my expectation is that i will vote for the candidate who most closely aligns with my thinking on most things with one exception. and thatís ethics. without that, no alignment is sufficient to earn my vote. if you want to take the position that no one who runs for office is by definition ethical and deserving of a vote, youíre entitled to your opinion. and yes, i have not voted for candidates who you would probably classify as ďmineĒ for that very reason. there is no ďslidingĒ when it comes to ethics. you either have them or you donít whether youíre a candidate or a voter.

    I couldn't have worded that any better. Thank you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    [Ö] the only people who were really harmed by it were those who got involved in the UCP leadership race expecting a clean fight.
    [Ö]
    "The only people"??

    Those who ignore unscrupulous behaviour will get (in the form of elected officials) what they deserve. The fooling has been witnessed; prepare to accept the shame of the fooling redux.

    It's morbidly fascinating to watch the logical gymnastics or garish willful ignorance of card-carrying partisans eager to look the other way (e.g. soul-selling evangelicals) for their perceived ideals. Or the varied sliding ethical-rating scales so hypocritically applied.

    No one's perfect. But all sins are not created equal.
    If voters exercise bypartisan, imagine what they will do if they're elected. We would essentially give them the green them to freely pursue nefarious agendas as that was how they would be voted in
    In the first place. How could one even remotely not ponder upon that notion. Our intellectual could not seriously digress to such low point could it?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Oh I see. You've never let something slide that you'd freely point out if it happened to a candidate other than your own?

    No candidate is perfect so unless you've never voted.....

    The fact that you would even ask such a repugnant question when he has already stated his moral position- coroberated with his grneral demeanor and tone on this board. Your question says a lot more about you though than anything Some of us do value some basic principle of honesty. which I hope you can accept.
    As do I. As do, I'm sure, a great number of people who will be voting UCP. At least that's what they tell themselves. And don't forget, you can have a candidate in your riding that would be eligible for sainthood and still get a premier who's as dirty as the driven slush because of the way our system is set up. So do you vote for the good and moral candidate or do your vote for the party? If you vote for a clean candidate knowing that it'll likely lead to having a dirty premier, did you really make the right choice?

    Are there good people in all parties? I'm sure there are. Well, perhaps except for Fildebrandt's vanity party. And even in that case, a former WR leader that many people said they believed in is helping his party, Brian Jean.

    So the question remains, can you vote for a good candidate knowing it'll likely lead to party with bad leadership? Sure, Kenney has booted a number of personnel and candidates that have proven to be toxic but why are they being attracted to the UCP in the first place?

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    people blindly voted for the ndp last election knowing that it wouldnt go well. So why cant people vote for the ucp the same way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    people blindly voted for the ndp last election knowing that it wouldnt go well. So why cant people vote for the ucp the same way?

    What a bunch of horse shat. If Notley had any other letters other than NDP after her name she would win in a land slide.

    Jean or Jim would never have been able to change the court rulings, the bc election, the global proce of oil, the USA delaying keystone etc etc etc and Kenny has endorsed a number of things notley has done.

    Notley has provided the most competent leadership this province has seen in a long long long time. LOOOOOOOONG TIME.

    I just wish we would double the carbon tax and slash income tax. Letís tax things we donít want and not tax things we do!

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    hahaha triggered were you? People did blindly vote ndp. People did so even tho it wasnt going to be good for the province.

    So I'll say it again. If the province could do that 4 years ago so the ndp could win why do we think the same voters wont do it again but for the ucp??

    I love it when people blindly say their fearless leader Rachel notley has ZERO accountability for how our province was run over the last 4 years.. shes not to blame for anything. Shes done nothing wrong. Shes perfect!!
    Last edited by gwill211; 21-03-2019 at 12:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    hahaha triggered were you? People did blindly vote ndp. People did so even tho it wasnt going to be good for the province.

    So I'll say it again. If the province could do that 4 years ago so the ndp could win why do we think the same voters wont do it again but for the ucp??

    I love it when people blindly say their fearless leader Rachel notley has ZERO accountability for how our province was run over the last 4 years.. shes not to blame for anything. Shes done nothing wrong. Shes perfect!!
    Dude Iím not trigged. Iím paraphrasing some of Albertaís top political scientists and political columnists (not liberal ones either).

    You are the one that thinks you understand me, when you clearly donít, but keep spouting nonsense. She has clearly misstepped, but every govít does.

    If anyone is triggered itís the conservative base and they have reacted not with intelligent debate but threats of violence, putting targets up for people to shoot/hit, dirty leadership campaigns with unlawful campaign financing..... I guess the ends justify the means right and if only they can regain power.. then we can be ethical. What horse shat.

    Here is a mind **** for you, I would of voted for A party lead by Jean, never Kenny...... the man is a liar and has used my lawful rights to whip up his base time and time again.

    So square that circle. And maybe before you start calling people names or assuming you know things you donít you might try asking them instead of deciding for them and then looking like a complete ***** when you are wrong.

    Good day Sir/Maíam

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    people blindly voted for the ndp last election knowing that it wouldnt go well. So why cant people vote for the ucp the same way?
    You are not giving Alberta voters any credit.

    People voted the NDP and Notley last election knowing FULL-WELL they want a competent, forward-thinking, accountable government.

    Laugh all you want if you disagree with the above sentence. But tell me one person that you know that "blindly" or accidentally voted for the NDP last Alberta election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    people blindly voted for the ndp last election knowing that it wouldnt go well. So why cant people vote for the ucp the same way?
    You are not giving Alberta voters any credit.

    People voted the NDP and Notley last election knowing FULL-WELL they want a competent, forward-thinking, accountable government.

    Laugh all you want if you disagree with the above sentence. But tell me one person that you know that "blindly" or accidentally voted for the NDP last Alberta election.
    Iím sure the NDP must of released a nerve agent into the water or maybe via con trails....

    We were all duped!

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    Hilarious! A bit over the top Iíd say.

    ďknowing FULL-WELL they want a competent, forward-thinking, accountable government.Ē


    More like they were tired of the old party, new that the old party fumbled the good years and recognized that in order to protect the old boys, they as average Albertans would be treated as expendibles in a prolonged economic downturn.
    Last edited by KC; 21-03-2019 at 01:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    […] the only people who were really harmed by it were those who got involved in the UCP leadership race expecting a clean fight.
    […]
    "The only people"??

    Those who ignore unscrupulous behaviour will get (in the form of elected officials) what they deserve. The fooling has been witnessed; prepare to accept the shame of the fooling redux.

    It's morbidly fascinating to watch the logical gymnastics or garish willful ignorance of card-carrying partisans eager to look the other way (e.g. soul-selling evangelicals) for their perceived ideals. Or the varied sliding ethical-rating scales so hypocritically applied.

    No one's perfect. But all sins are not created equal.
    I stand by what I wrote. I was referring to public perception of Kamikaze, not my own views of the ethics involved. From the viewpoint of a lot of people, the perpetrators weren't spending taxpayers money, and weren't shirking any obligations made to the general public, so it's not going to register as a scandal in the same way that, say, Sky Palace did, and hence might not do that much political damage.

    Again, I'm speaking strictly from the POV of electoral politics. Personally, I understand that what they did was quite wrong, and consitutes for me one more reason not to vote UCP. Not that I was supporting them to begin with.

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    ^ And just to be clear, I agree that anyone who ignores or tries to minimalize Kamikaze in order to justify voting UCP deserves what they get if Kenney and the boys pull the same **** on the general public once in office.

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    I agree on the difference due to who’s money was involved. However both the secret sky palace development and the secret stooge candidate ploy are very revealing of the true nature of those involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Hilarious! A bit over the top I’d say.

    “knowing FULL-WELL they want a competent, forward-thinking, accountable government.”


    More like they were tired of the old party, new that the old party fumbled the good years and recognized that in order to protect the old boys, they as average Albertans would be treated as expendibles in a prolonged economic downturn.
    Now you are over-thinking. If people wanted to protect the old boys in the PC Party, you really think they would risk voting for an NDP government as a sacrificial lamb, knowing there is an economic downturn in the near future?

    Conservative voters in Alberta would never waste their ballot voting for NDP or Liberal, especially someone who cares about the old boys.

    People voted for a majority NDP government because they are tired of the old boys running the province. As the years go by, there will be less and less old boys and their fans. Look at the demographics. The pollsters should also look at the demographics.
    Last edited by North Guy66; 21-03-2019 at 03:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Oh, sorry, just noticed the TITLE of the thread specifies ethics. The OP's call for "platform" discussion doesn't quite match that, but no big deal.
    It's all good. No worries.



    Ethics can also be a platform to espouse how they expect the Administration to be goverened, and other aspects of society they control/influence. I posted that first reply to ignite discussion, but it can go in multiple directions. If we need a topic split, I can accommodate.
    Ow

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Hilarious! A bit over the top Iíd say.

    ďknowing FULL-WELL they want a competent, forward-thinking, accountable government.Ē


    More like they were tired of the old party, new that the old party fumbled the good years and recognized that in order to protect the old boys, they as average Albertans would be treated as expendibles in a prolonged economic downturn.
    Voters are full of self interest. All they want is "Bread and Circuses"


    "Bread and circuses" (or bread and games; from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metonymic phrase critiquing superficial appeasement. It is attributed to Juvenal, a Roman poet active in the late first and early second century AD ó and is used commonly in cultural, particularly political, contexts.

    In a political context, the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction or by satisfying the most immediate or base requirements of a populace ó by offering a palliative: for example food (bread) or entertainment (circuses).


    Juvenal, who originated the phrase, used it to decry the selfishness of common people and their neglect of wider concerns. The phrase implies a population's erosion or ignorance of civic duty as a priority
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses


    True 2,000 years ago, true today. Human nature does not change.
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    Why are you suprised. Kenny has never had a real job he only knows the game of politics. He constantly lies and deflects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Yeah, not sure if picking fights with other conservatives based on nebulous evidence is the best strategy for switching the channel on his own alleged wrongdoings. If my own theory is correct, the kamizkaze scandal will dissipate on its own. Unless, of course, JK keeps it going via this sort of deflection.

  32. #32

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    "No collusion! No collusion! They colluded! They colluded!"

    Seriously, it's like he's following the same script. Deny everything and then blame others for the very things you did,

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    people blindly voted for the ndp last election knowing that it wouldnt go well. So why cant people vote for the ucp the same way?
    You are not giving Alberta voters any credit.

    People voted the NDP and Notley last election knowing FULL-WELL they want a competent, forward-thinking, accountable government.

    Laugh all you want if you disagree with the above sentence. But tell me one person that you know that "blindly" or accidentally voted for the NDP last Alberta election.
    You don't have a monumental shift in voting for a PC govt to ndp majority without the vast majority of the population voting for change. They weren't voting for the ndp.. it was a screw you vote to the PC's.

    As you can tell from the polls the ndp arent retaining those who blindly voted for change last election. It happened before and it seems like it will happen again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Why are you suprised. Kenny has never had a real job he only knows the game of politics. He constantly lies and deflects.
    Indeed. By the way, I should stay on topic in this thread.

    Kenny has a history of unethical behaviour during his political career.

    He has been fined $5000 by the PC Party for having a 'hospitality suite' at a delegate selection meeting.
    https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...rship-campaign

    Him being untruthful when he said he lived in his mom's basement.
    https://daveberta.ca/2019/01/jason-k...e-controversy/

    Kenneyís decision to continue collecting his $170,400 per year MPs salary while simultaneously raising tens of thousands of dollars in support of his own leadership campaign, months before the official race.
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jas...erta-1.3668514

    Those are just 3 examples, there is a lot more. Whenever he gets caught up in these controversies, he would stumble and bumble to deny the allegations. He will never own up to his mistakes.

    I cannot wait for the leadership debate. Notley will totally destroy Kenny on the stage. It will be my playoffs this spring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    people blindly voted for the ndp last election knowing that it wouldnt go well. So why cant people vote for the ucp the same way?
    You are not giving Alberta voters any credit.

    People voted the NDP and Notley last election knowing FULL-WELL they want a competent, forward-thinking, accountable government.

    Laugh all you want if you disagree with the above sentence. But tell me one person that you know that "blindly" or accidentally voted for the NDP last Alberta election.
    You don't have a monumental shift in voting for a PC govt to ndp majority without the vast majority of the population voting for change. They weren't voting for the ndp.. it was a screw you vote to the PC's.

    As you can tell from the polls the ndp arent retaining those who blindly voted for change last election. It happened before and it seems like it will happen again.
    Tell me again of anyone you know who voted accidentally for the NDP last time? If they wanted to punish the PC Party, why didn't they park their vote with the Wildrose?

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    I think that a large portion of the protest vote against PC entitlement and corruption will remain in place thanks to Mr Kenny. He's everything that people were sick of with the old PCs twice over.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I think that a large portion of the protest vote against PC entitlement and corruption will remain in place thanks to Mr Kenny. He's everything that people were sick of with the old PCs twice over.
    Well not to mention the UCP is full of old PC operatives. Itís the same people in a new paper dress.

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    No one seems to be mentioning the split of the votes between wild rose and pc that allowed NDP to win. In my riding approx 3500 voted wild rose and 4500 pc with NDP getting 6000. So if the two parties had been united NDP would have lost. Overall in the province it was similar. About 350,000 voted wild rose, 450,000 PC and 600,000 NDP. That was during a protest vote. So do the math. PC and wild rose are now united plus there will be less of a protest vote against them. A protest vote may go against the NDP this time so itís HIGHLY likely the UPC will win in a landslide and Rachel Notley will be relegated to a position she is very good at, leader of the official opposition.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 21-03-2019 at 11:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    No one seems to be mentioning the split of the votes between wild rose and pc that allowed NDP to win. In my riding approx 3500 voted wild rose and 4500 pc with NDP getting 6000. So if the two parties had been united NDP would have lost. Overall in the province it was similar. About 350,000 voted wild rose, 450,000 PC and 600,000 NDP. That was during a protest vote. So do the math. PC and wild rose are now united plus there will be less of a protest vote against them. A protest vote may go against the NDP this time so itís HIGHLY likely the UPC will win in a landslide and Rachel Notley will be relegated to a position she is very good at, leader of the official opposition.
    Although true you canít assume that a vote for the pcs equaled a vote for the Wildrose as well..... also we donít know how the Alberta party will play into this nor do we know how Derekís party will play into this election as well...

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    we also know that Jason Kenney's scandals and antics and behaviors have scared away a lot of conservative voters, and more and more people I know that were considering UCP and backing away, quickly. Going to be very interesting to see who wins this. There will be no majority, I'd bet on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I think that a large portion of the protest vote against PC entitlement and corruption will remain in place thanks to Mr Kenny. He's everything that people were sick of with the old PCs twice over.
    Well not to mention the UCP is full of old PC operatives. It’s the same people in a new paper dress.
    Not all of the old PC operatives. I know of several who resigned immediately after the Grifter was declared the leadership winner and are heavily involved with the Alberta Party.

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    ^^ A bunch of the PC's vote last time around was a centrist vote that might go Alberta Party, some might even go NDP now that they're "the Devil we know". I would also bet that at least a few tens of thousands of the wildrose vote goes to freedom conservatives.

    Even before Kenney Re-divided conservatives it was never true that wildrose and PC voters were all natural allies.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I think that a large portion of the protest vote against PC entitlement and corruption will remain in place thanks to Mr Kenny. He's everything that people were sick of with the old PCs twice over.
    Well not to mention the UCP is full of old PC operatives. Itís the same people in a new paper dress.
    Not all of the old PC operatives. I know of several who resigned immediately after the Grifter was declared the leadership winner and are heavily involved with the Alberta Party.
    my guess is that just about every pc who was committed to what the "progressive" as well as the "conservative" half of the party name represented is still looking for a place to be welcome and comfortable and for many of them the ucp is just not a particularly comfortable place.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    we also know that Jason Kenney's scandals and antics and behaviors have scared away a lot of conservative voters, and more and more people I know that were considering UCP and backing away, quickly. Going to be very interesting to see who wins this. There will be no majority, I'd bet on that.
    You think? I can't see anyone outside of UCP or NDP winning more than a couple seats (probably just their own riding), which pretty much guarantees a majority government.

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    ^Yeah, this is really a two-horse race. The Alberta Party will probably be lucky if they can re-elect Greg Clark, to be quite frank. The Liberals appear to be poised to be shut out entirely for the first time since 1982. Maybe Derek Fildebrandt could get elected for the Freedom Conservatives, but I'm a bit doubtful about that...
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  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    No one seems to be mentioning the split of the votes between wild rose and pc that allowed NDP to win.
    That, and the NDP vote was a one-time protest vote.

    I bet even Rachel Notley deep down knows that she doesn't have a chance in hell of repeating the success she had last election.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    No one seems to be mentioning the split of the votes between wild rose and pc that allowed NDP to win.
    That, and the NDP vote was a one-time protest vote.

    I bet even Rachel Notley deep down knows that she doesn't have a chance in hell of repeating the success she had last election.
    Well, I bet theyíve changed a lot of perceptions away from the fear of them many held.

    Though the debt build up and the carbon tax just reinforced some old very flawed stereotypes.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I think that a large portion of the protest vote against PC entitlement and corruption will remain in place thanks to Mr Kenny. He's everything that people were sick of with the old PCs twice over.
    Well not to mention the UCP is full of old PC operatives. It’s the same people in a new paper dress.
    Not all of the old PC operatives. I know of several who resigned immediately after the Grifter was declared the leadership winner and are heavily involved with the Alberta Party.
    my guess is that just about every pc who was committed to what the "progressive" as well as the "conservative" half of the party name represented is still looking for a place to be welcome and comfortable and for many of them the ucp is just not a particularly comfortable place.
    Yeah. First Wildrose and now UCP. Initially they seem like an option for positive change and then...

    It’s just sad.

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    No one seems to be mentioning the split of the votes between wild rose and pc that allowed NDP to win.
    That, and the NDP vote was a one-time protest vote.

    I bet even Rachel Notley deep down knows that she doesn't have a chance in hell of repeating the success she had last election.
    Itís not a one time protest vote Ffs... with the most recent polling as per cbcís podcast they could win as many as 23 seats.... or 26% of the seat count.

    The arrogance of conservatives in this province is astounding. There are other views and opinions in this province other than theirs.

    Whoever wins, Alberta will be better off being a two party province as opposed to the one party province it was for 4 decades.

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Hilarious! A bit over the top I’d say.

    “knowing FULL-WELL they want a competent, forward-thinking, accountable government.”


    More like they were tired of the old party, new that the old party fumbled the good years and recognized that in order to protect the old boys, they as average Albertans would be treated as expendibles in a prolonged economic downturn.
    Now you are over-thinking. If people wanted to protect the old boys in the PC Party, you really think they would risk voting for an NDP government as a sacrificial lamb, knowing there is an economic downturn in the near future?

    Conservative voters in Alberta would never waste their ballot voting for NDP or Liberal, especially someone who cares about the old boys.

    People voted for a majority NDP government because they are tired of the old boys running the province. As the years go by, there will be less and less old boys and their fans. Look at the demographics. The pollsters should also look at the demographics.
    My apologies for my very poorly written post and spelling errors. (Worse than usual.)

    I meant that on this Enterprise, the average voter realized that they were wearing red shirts and they only had a bit part to cast a ballot for the PCs.

    Agree that the demographics and social makeup of the province is also changing.


    http://startrek2009.com/star-trek-re...n-i-told-them/
    Last edited by KC; 22-03-2019 at 04:53 PM.

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  52. #52

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    It seems like the NDP has resorted to just calling everyone in the UCP "racist" and "misogynist". Aren't even attacking them on policy.

    Shows how scared and desperate the NDP are.

    I can't wait until they start pulling out UCP candidates' yearbooks to try and prove other personal accusations against them. Ha ha.

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    No one seems to be mentioning the split of the votes between wild rose and pc that allowed NDP to win.
    That, and the NDP vote was a one-time protest vote.

    I bet even Rachel Notley deep down knows that she doesn't have a chance in hell of repeating the success she had last election.
    It’s not a one time protest vote Ffs... with the most recent polling as per cbc’s podcast they could win as many as 23 seats.... or 26% of the seat count.
    Yes, it was a one-time protest vote.

    Going from a majority government to only having 23% of the seats (best-case scenario) after one term in office is the exact definition of a protest vote.

  54. #54

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    ^ you are nuts.

    So lost on your own bias.

    Sorry but this province has changed and will continue to do so. The election of the NDP represents that change and itís not going away.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 23-03-2019 at 02:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It seems like the NDP has resorted to just calling everyone in the UCP "racist" and "misogynist". Aren't even attacking them on policy.

    Shows how scared and desperate the NDP are.

    I can't wait until they start pulling out UCP candidates' yearbooks to try and prove other personal accusations against them. Ha ha.
    are you really trying to say that being a racist or being a misogynist is not a policy or a belief worth not voting for?

    if so, that might not be scared and desperate but certainly seems to be willfully blind. not all ucp candidates or party members or voters are either of those things but enough of them seem to be that the dual concern is a legitimate one - how can one vote for them and how can they be accepted as equals by their peer candidates and party members?

    is it enough to simply not vote for those who are one of those things if you live in one of their ridings? thatís one of the big questions that needs to be/will be answered on the 16th of april.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  56. #56

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    I think digging into a candidate's past, combing for a stupid or disagreeable thing they said at some point (sometimes 10, 20 or 30 years ago), and then trying to paint their entire character with it to create a moral panic around that person is lousy fear-mongering. I think it's only important what a person thinks and says today. After all, people change, grow, and form different opinions throughout their lives.

    The NDP seems very desperate by doing what they are to attack their opponents.

  57. #57

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    I avoid voting for anyone with a strong religious background. Opinions from people with religious backgrounds tend to not change much over time.
    Last edited by ThomasH; 23-03-2019 at 09:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think digging into a candidate's past, combing for a stupid or disagreeable thing they said at some point (sometimes 10, 20 or 30 years ago), and then trying to paint their entire character with it to create a moral panic around that person is lousy fear-mongering. I think it's only important what a person thinks and says today. After all, people change, grow, and form different opinions throughout their lives.

    The NDP seems very desperate by doing what they are to attack their opponents.
    a single stupid or disagreeable thing they said at some point??? even if 10, 20, 30 years ago is somehow too far ago to matter and should somehow be automatically forgiven or deemed irrelevant without scrutiny, how about something repeated regularly 4 or 5 years ago or being a group member of a particular organization until recently or something said at a public podium just last may? is that desperation or simply holding people accountable for their own expressed belief?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    how about something repeated regularly 4 or 5 years ago or being a group member of a particular organization until recently or something said at a public podium just last may?
    Yeah, I think that is certainly different than something dug up that was said at some point decades ago.

  60. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think digging into a candidate's past, combing for a stupid or disagreeable thing they said at some point (sometimes 10, 20 or 30 years ago), and then trying to paint their entire character with it to create a moral panic around that person is lousy fear-mongering. I think it's only important what a person thinks and says today. After all, people change, grow, and form different opinions throughout their lives.

    The NDP seems very desperate by doing what they are to attack their opponents.
    "I think it's only important what a person thinks and says today. After all, people change, grow, and form different opinions throughout their lives."

    How do you deal with the problem of people seeking to get elected not saying what they are thinking but instead saying what they think potential voters want to hear? Past actions and words should be appropriately discounted. Sometimes subsequent words and actions if they are available, can and should completely negate past words and actions where reasonable.

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    And Hitler’s beer hall peutsch didn’t matter either!
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  62. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    How do you deal with the problem of people seeking to get elected not saying what they are thinking but instead saying what they think potential voters want to hear?
    I deal with it the same way everyone deals with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    How do you deal with the problem of people seeking to get elected not saying what they are thinking but instead saying what they think potential voters want to hear?
    I deal with it the same way everyone deals with it.
    thats a bit of a copout isnít it? KC asked how you deal with it, not whether you think everyone else deals with it the same way you do (which isnít actually very likely regardless of how you deal with it).
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  64. #64

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    You donít have to look 20-30 years ago to see Kennyís moral direction... just look at what he has said about partnering with Calloways campaign team....

    We didnít do it, I didnít know anything about it... now he says its ďNormal, happens all the time.Ē

    All the while he puts out letís run clean campaigns and stay away from attacks. Letís talk about policy.

    He is a Hypocrite pure and simple. His actions consistently donít align with what he says. So yes letís have a bunch of referendums about things that are completely out of the provinces locus of control. Letís play off of peoples ignorance.

    Where is the UPCís climate plateform.

  65. #65

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    people care about the economy and jobs. That's the priority of most of the province. This is an area the ndp have never been concerned about.

    All they care about are pushing different issues: LGBTQ, carbon tax and let's not forget abortion bs. I've said it for the last while that this is their down fall. They are too narrow minded while pushing certain issues over all others.

  66. #66

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    A poster lying. In the "Ethics" thread! When's that ever gonna happen?! - Viggo Mortensen (paraphrased)

  67. #67

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    Agreed

    Painting the NDP as being against the economy and jobs is either myopic or extremely biased.

    It is not the NDP's fault that the bottom dropped out of the oil market in 2014 and that pipeline construction was challenged in provinces where Alberta does not control.

    The PC's were in control for 47 years and the oil prices boomed multiple times, the last one from 2009 to 2014 and the PC's did not even have a four lane highway prepared to the most important economic growth region. People were drunk on high oil prices and lived like it would never end. The PC's failed to maintain Peter Lougheed's vision of upgrading the resources before it left the province rather than shipping raw product. It failed to capitalize on the economic returns and put money into the Heritage Trust Fund and instead spent huge amounts on expensive capital projects.

    Support the best candidates that have a realistic vision and a strong fiscal platform.
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  68. #68

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    Fake e-mail accounts set up before UCP leadership vote in order to obtain voter PINs.

    'Left with fines, charges and shame': Calgary political insider alleges voter fraud in UCP leadership campaign

    Central to Mann's allegations of voter fraud is the question of why or whether fake emails were attached to membership forms in the lead-up to the UCP leadership vote on Oct. 28, 2017.


    "When I fill the forms in, for a few of the people I know, particularly, that there was no email addresses on those forms and then emails appeared on their membership list," he said in an interview with CBC News on March 25.


    "Then who put those emails there?" he continued.


    Kenney has faced allegations that his campaign used VPNs — which block the identity of a computer — in order to vote multiple times from the same computer in the leadership race.


    In a letter sent to the RCMP, former UCP caucus member Prab Gill accused the Kenney campaign of using fake email addresses in order to receive the PINs needed to cast a vote and then voting en masse for Kenney.


    CBC News has not independently verified Gill's allegations.


    CBC News searched for historical registration data using DomainTools and confirmed that dozens of email addresses attached to UCP members were all purchased by anonymous sources in the lead-up to the UCP leadership vote, between Sept. 20 and Oct. 13, 2017.


    Many of those emails, with domains like link3mail.com and jaringmail.com, all link back to the same web host.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ium%3Dsharebar

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    people care about the economy and jobs. That's the priority of most of the province. This is an area the ndp have never been concerned about.

    All they care about are pushing different issues: LGBTQ, carbon tax and let's not forget abortion bs. I've said it for the last while that this is their down fall. They are too narrow minded while pushing certain issues over all others.

    Yes economy and jobs are foremost in every poll ,the carbon tax is for Notley and her pet projects

  70. #70

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    It's almost as if the unemployment rate in Alberta is inversely proportional to the price of oil. Weird.

    And look, the price of oil dropped even before Notley was elected. Vey sneaky of her to pull that off.


  71. #71

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    Interesting but not inversely proportional.

    Between 2007 and 2008, unemployment was flat at about 3.5% while oil prices doubled from $60 to $120
    In 2009 the price drops to as low as $40 and unemployment triples.
    Later in 2009 to 2011 the oil price stabilizes at 2007 levels of $60-$80 but unemployment remains at 6% to 7%, double that of 2007-2008.
    Even when oil prices go up to the $80-$110 price, unemployment levels still hover at 4.5%, higher than 2007-2008 levels

    I always wonder how what the combined effects of the USD/CDN exchange rates have an effect on a chart such as that one above

    From Mid 2009 to mid 2014, the exchange rate hovered at at 0.95 to 1.10 but then jumped to 1.25 to 1.35 About a 20% bonus

    That means the $50 USD a barrel average in 2015-2016 is really $60 CDN, the same place we were in 2007 when unemployment was 3.5% and 8% today
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  72. #72

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    "No collusion! No collusion!"

    Unravelling the controversy behind the 2017 UCP leadership race

    July 19, 2017: This is when former UCP nomination candidate Happy Mann alleges he, Kenney and others met with Callaway, who allegedly agreed to be Kenney's secret candidate to attack Jean.


    Kenney admits a meeting occurred, but denies Callaway was recruited. Callaway campaign communications manager Cameron Davies, however, supports Mann's story.


    Aug. 6, 2017: Mark Hudson, then a UCP member, records a conversation with Callaway campaign organizer Wendy Adam and her husband.


    Adam says Callaway will be "able to say things about Brian Jean that Jason Kenney cannot."

    Hudson says: "It's a 'kamikaze' mission." Adam confirms this.


    Aug. 10, 2017: Callaway announces he is entering the leadership race. Earlier that day, Davies had emailed a copy of Callaway's launch speech to Matt Wolf, a senior staffer in Kenney's campaign.


    Aug. 13, 2017: Davies emails Wolf a communications plan for the Callaway campaign, including a rough date for when Callaway would withdraw from the race.


    Davies also sends the email to Shuvaloy Majumdar, an associate of Harper & Associates, the political consulting firm of former prime minister Stephen Harper. Kenney spokesperson Matt Solberg said Majumdar was a volunteer for Kenney's leadership campaign.


    Over the next several weeks, Wolf provides the Callaway campaign with resources, including attack videos and graphics.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...aign-1.5073789

  73. #73

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    Callaway claims that OEC not permitted to continue investigation.

    Emergency court injunction seeks to shut down investigation into UCP leadership campaign financing

    On Monday, lawyers will argue the OEC had no authority to continue to investigate once the election was called.


    "Requiring Albertans to attend such interviews during the election period interferes with their Charter right to participate in the electoral process, despite that the activity being investigated occurred prior to the election period, and there is no urgency to the investigation," reads the application filed with the court.


    Last week, according to the application, lawyers for the applicants began seeking an adjournment of their scheduled interview with investigators.


    The OEC refused and responded that "enforcement activities and responsibilities of the OEC must escalate during an election period."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tion-1.5076621

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    Thanks for giving the story another round of headlines, Jeff!

    What a jagoff.
    ďSon, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmontonís skyline.Ē

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    UCP voters don’t care about ethics.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  76. #76

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    NDP voters don't care about reality.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  77. #77

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    ^^Ethics are reality.

    Do you want an unethical kakistocracy?



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakistocracy
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    Is Notley still covering up, for the two men, that were charged with sexual assault? Are they running? Ugh!!!

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  80. #80

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    saw an old man run out to the street and steal a ucp sign from the bvd and take it into his house. Is this considered theft?? What sort of time will this cranky 70 yr old guy get?

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Is Notley still covering up, for the two men, that were charged with sexual assault? Are they running? Ugh!!!
    Nobody was charged with sexual assault.

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    I have in the past been a sign chair for local campaigns, and am currently a sign volunteer for the Janis Irwin campaign in Highlands-Norwood. We currently have over 1,500 signs up on private property.

    As much as I despise election signs on public property (boulevards don't vote), they are allowed so long as the following rules are followed:

    https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...Guidelines.pdf

    Signs placed by in the grassy boulevards between traffic lanes or located by parks and schools are illegal. Those placed in the narrow grassy median between the street and the sidewalk in front of residences (or businesses) may or may not be illegal depending on how close they are to the street but in any case are disrespectful to whoever lives there if not done without permission.

    Anyone who sees what they think is an illegally placed sign should not remove it but rather call the offending campaign directly and/or 311.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    saw an old man run out to the street and steal a ucp sign from the bvd and take it into his house. Is this considered theft?? What sort of time will this cranky 70 yr old guy get?
    Maybe the old man had issues the sign was on public property.

    I do believe it is an offense if an individual removes or vandalizes a sign on private property. The rules fall under Elections Alberta, check with them.

    Next time take a pic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Is Notley still covering up, for the two men, that were charged with sexual assault? Are they running? Ugh!!!
    Nobody was charged with sexual assault.

    Right, because they took care of it inside the part, cute!

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    ^Are you suggesting that the NDP prevented criminal charges by conducting their own internal inquiry, and control what the RCMP/police do and do not pursue? If there was actual charges, then it wouldn't matter whether or not they tried to take care of it "inside the party". You can't stop criminal charges by dealing with things "inside the party".

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    ^Are you suggesting that the NDP prevented criminal charges by conducting their own internal inquiry, and control what the RCMP/police do and do not pursue? If there was actual charges, then it wouldn't matter whether or not they tried to take care of it "inside the party". You can't stop criminal charges by dealing with things "inside the party".
    She didn't answer the question during the debate...just sayin

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    Jason Kenney is a bully in this debate!
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  88. #88

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    how come we didnt hear a question on photo radar?? dont they know what matters to us?

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    Notley was very unsure in this debate..nervous and twittery.
    Jason was excellent, but Mandel surprised me. He'd be my second choice, I like the way Kenney called him Stephen..bet if the UCP win, Mandel is offered something..
    Khan, seriously? Why was he even there..
    Too noisy to make any difference..roll on election time..

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    Nothing new from Jason Kenney. I hope the Alberta Party steals a few votes.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  91. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Nothing new from Jason Kenney. I hope the Alberta Party steals a few votes.
    notley was off script a couple times. She looked nervous.. if theres one clear loser in the debate it's her. Could she shuffle her papers and check her notes more then she did?

  92. #92

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    I didnít get that at all. Jason was classic Harper. Talking point talking point. He misrepresented facts. Itís sad Albertaís first gay premier will be a closeted one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Nothing new from Jason Kenney. I hope the Alberta Party steals a few votes.
    notley was off script a couple times. She looked nervous.. if there's one clear loser in the debate it's her. Could she shuffle her papers and check her notes more then she did?
    She was off her game, that's for sure, it really should have been three, not four. Khan apparently walks on water.. Mandel might steal votes from Notley in Edmonton, Calgary doesn't know him..
    Kenney made a few good points, I'm not posting what I thought they were, we all see it differently..

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    I think Fildebrandt should have been allowed to debate.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Nothing new from Jason Kenney. I hope the Alberta Party steals a few votes.
    notley was off script a couple times. She looked nervous.. if theres one clear loser in the debate it's her. Could she shuffle her papers and check her notes more then she did?
    Do you ever hear Drex at night( it's all across Canada) but tonight he started with our debate. He said Kenney was a clear winner..(, he's a liberal) he just happens to tell it like it is..

  96. #96

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    Well I think Khan stuck on reiterating the fact that he is a constitutional lawyer for far too long, he did do a good job of pointing out that holding a referendum is only going to result in spending tax payer dollars and time without the positive outcome Kenney is looking for.

  97. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    saw an old man run out to the street and steal a ucp sign from the bvd and take it into his house. Is this considered theft?? What sort of time will this cranky 70 yr old guy get?
    No it's called ridding the area of pollution

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    I would think that by the time someone reaches 70 they've had a bellyful of lying, conniving, scumbag politicians over the years. Yep, pollution control sums it up.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  99. #99

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    Most people are fed up way before the age of 70. Others can't get enough of the BS.
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  100. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    I didnít get that at all. Jason was classic Harper. Talking point talking point. He misrepresented facts. Itís sad Albertaís first gay premier will be a closeted one.
    How do you know that he will be the first, there haven't been others? Statistically, probably some previous premiers were a bit closeted as well. Its Jason's business when he decides to come out, and shouldn't impact our vote.

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