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Thread: Build a large artificial "beach" in the River Valley

  1. #1

    Default Build a large artificial "beach" in the River Valley

    Since we're having such a wonderful summer I thought I'd quickly recycle an earlier discussion into a suggestion here:

    Lets build a large artificial beach in Edmonton's River Valley. Put a foot-friendly riprap between the sand and the water to avoid the whole sand erosion issue (or divert river water via a small canal into an acre or two sized pond with a beach).

    Locations anyone?

    For example, let's say you turned some of the area below Gov't House into a "beach" by taking 5-6 acres or more and covering it in sand. Above the beach on the high ground you could build a great outdoor pool (with a retractable roof for year round use), a spray park for children, etc. Below the beach area you could have canoe and raft rentals... Somewhere on the sand covered area you could have beach volley ball or whatever...

  2. #2
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    I have just started a similar thread at http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...?p=49461#49461

    we're thinking the same in terms of making the river swimable. there are already a few responses there, so perhaps we can join them?

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    Yeah, I'm sick of having to drive 30 mins out of town to go to anything remotely resembling a beach. I like the gov't house location! Is there seriously something that can be done about the running water though? wouldn't it make more sense to simply transform Hawrelak lake into a beach? I mean it was done for the triathalon meaning the experience and facilities are in place to simply expand the beach front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amanzano
    Yeah, I'm sick of having to drive 30 mins out of town to go to anything remotely resembling a beach. I like the gov't house location! Is there seriously something that can be done about the running water though? wouldn't it make more sense to simply transform Hawrelak lake into a beach? I mean it was done for the triathalon meaning the experience and facilities are in place to simply expand the beach front.
    I've suggested a way here: http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...?p=49461#49461

  5. #5

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    Excellent.

    Actually, maybe two areas should be considered. One just for sand next to the water (a lot of the people I see sitting on beaches when camping and travelling never actually do go into the water anyway) and another area that creates a swimming / multi-purpose area. The first, since it wouldn't involve weirs, dams, regulatory approvals, etc, would be an initial a low cost - "just do it" approach to getting people down to - and onto - the water. Those users would then become supporters for Plan "B" - something with far broader appeal like you're suggesting.


    The running water is an issue - just don't put sand down to the water's edge - keep it back a ways. But put tons and tons of it where people will use it. If need be, use rubber, concrete or something going out into the water a few feet. Hopefully somethign that can be removed at the end of the season. I'm not sure you want people swimming in the river water anyway - all kinds of issues attach to that idea. I'd say focus on canoes, rafts, etc. if anything at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amanzano
    Yeah, I'm sick of having to drive 30 mins out of town to go to anything remotely resembling a beach. I like the gov't house location! Is there seriously something that can be done about the running water though? wouldn't it make more sense to simply transform Hawrelak lake into a beach? I mean it was done for the triathalon meaning the experience and facilities are in place to simply expand the beach front.
    Hawrelak, Equine center, Terwillegar, etc. are low enough and broad enough to be used for this. The gov't house location is not suitable because of stability issues this would cause.

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    There's an artificial beach next to the Brisbane River in Brisbane, Australia. It includes a water park with all sorts of crazy sprinklers, and there's an adjacent market with all sorts of artist booths and food vendors. Really cool. The river is visible in a couple of the photos.
    I took these photos in April.




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    That looks amazing (maybe cause it's australia)
    But I think something like that would be amazing in edmonton!

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    It would be great if Edmonton built something just like that. Minus the palm trees of course...

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    ...and if they could do it WITH the palm trees, it would be even MORE amazing!

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    I would love to see something like that in Edmonton! Any chance that is could be converted to a skating area in the winter? I know the river is a no-go, but perhaps in an area where the water slows right down the ice might get thick and smooth enough.

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    I think it would be great if we could make the lake at Hawrelak Park suitable for swimming. I don't know why we have not done it up to now.

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    I once suggested that we need to hybridize blue and pink dandelions to make them more visually palatable on my front lawn, :-) but even better would be for someone could come up with cold hardy palm trees!

    Maybe a huge beach around a vastly cleaned up Lake Hawrelak could be our equivalent? (If I squint, that could almost be Edmonton's downtown in the background.)

    Anyway - thanks for adding the pictures. Very inspirational!!! I hope it gets people thinking about the options and even better ideas for Edmonton.

    A friend sent me this link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikome_Lake

    Here's an article:

    http://www.usatoday.com/travel/desti...-beaches_x.htm

    Excerpt:
    "Stretches of sand are being trucked in to urban riverfronts to create the feeling of a lazy day at the shore, just a seashell's throw from the buildings, shops and busy streets of Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Budapest, Rome and Berlin.

    These sand-in-the-city installations are designed primarily for urbanites who don't have money or time for a summer holiday on the Riviera or the Baltic Sea. Several of them have been running for three or four summers now and have been a huge success, drawing thousands of city-dwellers to sit in the sun in their bathing suits and dig their toes in the sand. "


    see also:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_beach

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdimedru
    That looks amazing (maybe cause it's australia)
    But I think something like that would be amazing in edmonton!
    wouldn't work here - it would all be upside down.

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    I should point out that Brisbane is about as far south of the equator as Miami is north. This should imply that the climate (as shown by the palms) is nowhere near that of Edmonton.

    Although it's visually appealing and relatively easy to construct we can expect at most two months of summer use out of the 'beach' and outdoor skating is spotty at best - caught between to cold and too warm.

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    I don't think anyone is expecting a tropical beach in Canada, 24karat is only illustrating that artificial beaches can be done. In our climate, the best urban beach we can strive for would be akin to the one in Sylvan Lake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    I don't think anyone is expecting a tropical beach in Canada, 24karat is only illustrating that artificial beaches can be done. In our climate, the best urban beach we can strive for would be akin to the one in Sylvan Lake.
    As long as our expectations are within reach. It would be embarrassing to have a showpiece urban beach that doesn't get used because we copied it from another climate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    I should point out that Brisbane is about as far south of the equator as Miami is north. This should imply that the climate (as shown by the palms) is nowhere near that of Edmonton.

    Although it's visually appealing and relatively easy to construct we can expect at most two months of summer use out of the 'beach' and outdoor skating is spotty at best - caught between to cold and too warm.
    Heat the water during the winter

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    Winter: Here is where I think we should be thinking more about "hot springs" than beaches. I think that heated open-air pools in a few choice locations would be the sort of amenity we need. We have spectacular settings, in four seasons, but they aren't comfortable to enjoy in shirt sleeves, never mind bathing suits, for a large portion of the year. That is where technology comes to the rescue!

    Heated open-air pools!
    City Centre Airport is to the sky as False Creek is to the ocean.

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    using geothermal technology to heat the water

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    Quote Originally Posted by travis
    Heat the water during the winter
    Quote Originally Posted by lux
    Heated open-air pools!
    I do hope you're both joking.

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    where were those photos taken, Brisbane?

    I love Australian cities, they are like Canadian cities, but you can really see the advantage of not having extreme weather - and so buildings and roads last soo much longer.

    Progressive and beautiful - Australia's sparkling cities, ahhh sigh...

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    An "Edmonton Hot Springs" sounds appealing for the winter (especially if it's right near the ski hill by the Muttart), but an artificial one somehow wouldn't be quite the same as the ones in the Rockies (Radium, Banff, Jasper).

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    heating pools in the winter would be a horrible waste of energy, when we are all looking to conserve. Geothermal would be interesting, but are there not any geothermal sources in Edmonton?? I don't think so, unless we use our drilling expertise and drill a hole down close to the asthenosphere - the escaping heat (and possibly magma) could heat the water...just don't heat up the whole river, lol. Then use the excess heat to course down pipes on the streets to melt the street ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    Quote Originally Posted by travis
    Heat the water during the winter
    Quote Originally Posted by lux
    Heated open-air pools!
    I do hope you're both joking.
    It would have been a workable (and very cool) idea if the Rossdale powerplant has not been shut down. There was waste heat free for the taking.

    Hmmm...Maybe they could do that near one of the Wabamun powerplants. It would be out of town, but a lot closer than Jasper, Banff and Radium.

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    Maybe we need a new topic on the hot springs idea:
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...?p=49725#49725

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by NBS
    where were those photos taken, Brisbane?

    I love Australian cities, they are like Canadian cities, but you can really see the advantage of not having extreme weather - and so buildings and roads last soo much longer.

    Progressive and beautiful - Australia's sparkling cities, ahhh sigh...
    There are upsides and downsides. One of the things I love about Canada is that the houses are IMO better built. The cold necessitates this. For example, downunder you will never have a basement, which really limits your living space. I presonally also think society is much more advanced in Canada, in terms of showing respect for others, integrating immigrants, etc.

    With regard to a beach, I like the idea, perhaps a little like at the artificial lake in Summerside? The problem of course, is that the summer is so short here in Edmonton (although this one isn't half bad ). How much do we really want to invest on 2 to 3 months of the year, when many people choose to vacation elsewhere anyway?

  28. #28

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    Summers are short but the days are VERY long.

    Why not capitalize on our strengths and give people as many options as possible to encourage them to spend some of their holiday time here rather than abroad. Or take days off to enjoy around our own city rather than banking holidays to spend their time and savings in other places. We need to offer many more worthwhile facilities to make our own city a dynamic place to stay.

    Moreover, one of the arguments for the whopping $250-million dollar overpass is 'avoiding' a negative image in the eyes of tourists!!! If that is a reasonable rationale how could this - which would require a small, small fraction of that amount - not be considered reasonable?

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    Summers are short but the days are VERY long.

    Why not capitalize on our strengths and give people as many options as possible to encourage them to spend some of their holiday time here rather than abroad. Or take days off to enjoy around our own city rather than banking holidays to spend their time and savings in other places. We need to offer many more worthwhile facilities to make our own city a dynamic place to stay.

    Moreover, one of the arguments for the whopping $250-million dollar overpass is 'avoiding' a negative image in the eyes of tourists!!! If that is a reasonable rationale how could this - which would require a small, small fraction of that amount - not be considered reasonable?
    True, the days are long, and this summer is beauitful. I wonder if the beach at Summerside might not be a model as to what could be acheived. Not sure I would want to swim in the River though (I doubt it is that warm), a nice beach might be enough.

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    In Paris, between mid-July and mid-Augest, they close down the Pomidou express for 2km's along the seine for Paris Plage. They truck in sand, litter it with chairs and umbrella's, put up potted palm trees, have the odd (small) outdoor pool brought in, and erect temporary cafes. It is packed both day and night. Who says we need to leave the beach there permanently? How about closing down the strecth of river valley road between the golf course entrance and royal glenora, truck in the sand, slap down a few chairs, license some temporary cafe's and voila Edmonton Beach!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NBS
    heating pools in the winter would be a horrible waste of energy, when we are all looking to conserve. Geothermal would be interesting, but are there not any geothermal sources in Edmonton?? I don't think so, unless we use our drilling expertise and drill a hole down close to the asthenosphere - the escaping heat (and possibly magma) could heat the water...just don't heat up the whole river, lol. Then use the excess heat to course down pipes on the streets to melt the street ice.
    I was thinking of using that to heat our homes or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NBS
    heating pools in the winter would be a horrible waste of energy, when we are all looking to conserve. Geothermal would be interesting, but are there not any geothermal sources in Edmonton?? I don't think so, unless we use our drilling expertise and drill a hole down close to the asthenosphere - the escaping heat (and possibly magma) could heat the water...just don't heat up the whole river, lol. Then use the excess heat to course down pipes on the streets to melt the street ice.


    There is a building going up on 51 ave near 91 street that is advertising geothermal heating.

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    The only problem with a beach by the river is the amount of work the emergency services would have due to it. It seems that everytime someone wants to wet their feet in the river in Edmonton someone else always thinks they need to be rescued. This city really needs to start thinking about using this asset we have instead of being afraid of it. I think Mandel may have been on to something when he suggested short wiers to try and make the river a bit higher for recreational activities. Has anyone else seen the marinas on the river in Ottawa with all the boats in them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kilocar



    There is a building going up on 51 ave near 91 street that is advertising geothermal heating.
    I think it's more solar-heated, geo-retained type of heating, not drill-into-the-asthenosphere type heating.

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    Am I the only one here who thinks that a beach just wouldn't really mesh with the general "feel" of the Edmonton River Valley? I think it would seem like a very artificial imposition.

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    Seeing we are talking about an artificial beach in a landlocked city, it is by definition 'artificial'. However, as I mentioned above, in Paris they close an express by the river for a month in the summer for an artificial beach and while obviously artificial, contrived and perhaps a bit ridiculous, it is wildly popular.

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    ..so, you're saying that lakes in the area don't have "real" beaches? The beaches in Penticton are artificial?
    Onward and upward

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    The idea sounds cool.
    Could even toss on a beach volleyball tournament to help attract people and such.
    Just have to figure out what could be done with the area during cooler months to ensure maximum use of the area.
    As for the location... I'm open to river valley or lake hawrelak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryguy
    Just have to figure out what could be done with the area during cooler months to ensure maximum use of the area.
    Fishing? Skating? Sailing?

  40. #40

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    I'd say - start by just keep it very simple - but make it large enough to give it enough of a presence to seem natural and thus attract users.

    A large but cheap "artificial beach" would test the potential popularity with plans for outdoor pools, sprayparks for toddlers, etc. as stages II, III, IV... or as sponsored River Valley Enhancement Projects. (ie I could see generous individuals or corporations readily sponsoring a river valley spray park for kids due to it's 'centrality'. Something this city often lacks in terms of sponsorship possibilities.)

    Initially, maybe even ban river swimming (encourage canoeing instead) to avoid any liability to the City or any obligation to hire multiple shifts of lifeguards. I can see the headline - City Creates Deathpool... If the plan is too grande you'd get too much dissention, too much hassle, needs for all kinds of studies. It will never get 'ON the ground' - all for just a bunch of sand for people to lay on and play on to make Edmonton's summers more enjoyable.

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    If anyone saw the cover of the Journal's Sunday Reader section today... well , that's what I was trying to suggest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    If anyone saw the cover of the Journal's Sunday Reader section today... well , that's what I was trying to suggest.
    Here's the link:

    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...c-bcc69b02fbce
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  43. #43

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    Here is an artificial beach on the River Seine in Paris, France









    Here is a forum on making public spaces with great ideas

    http://www.cooltownstudios.com/category/placemaking/

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    If anyone saw the cover of the Journal's Sunday Reader section today... well , that's what I was trying to suggest.
    Here's the link:

    http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...c-bcc69b02fbce
    Saw this too and it looked so possible. Of course we could do this by the river in places people way better qualified than me have suggested. We have the space and the weather we just need the will to achieve this. Love it...

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    Do I hear a a weir in the future of River City ???

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    Looks at the numbers of people in the Paris shots above. Why not do that here? Whenever I've been at a resort most of the people are sitting on the sand - not playing in the water. clearly, these people don't even care if they go in the water - it's a day outdoors in the sun.

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    I'm pretty sure I saw something similar to this in Berlin.
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Looks at the numbers of people in the Paris shots above. Why not do that here? Whenever I've been at a resort most of the people are sitting on the sand - not playing in the water. clearly, these people don't even care if they go in the water - it's a day outdoors in the sun.
    People like to see and be seen. If they see people having fun they will come back with their beach towels and flip flops.

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    i have been asking for something like this for a while now...... louise mckinney is ripe for this on those large lower flat sections.

    - sand
    - beach volleyball
    - sand castle competition

    hard to do?

    no
    www.decl.org

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    getting the beach wouldnt be hard, but getting public support for it would be a tough sell imo.
    something tells me there would be a very vocal opposition to this, with the usual arguments: winter city, to much money, potholes etc.

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    ^ ...homeless, parking, "silly hall", vandalism...

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    ^^ People won't support it because of the "no touchie river valley" sentiment. The feminists will angrily point out the irony of bikini-clad babes in a park named after a womens' rights advocate.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Parks can always be renamed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^^ People won't support it because of the "no touchie river valley" sentiment. The feminists will angrily point out the irony of bikini-clad babes in a park named after a womens' rights advocate.
    You are likely right but any real feminist should note that Louise McKinney and those in her ilk fought so that women can wear whatever they wish so if a woman (babe or not!) wants to be bikini-clad or wear a burqa it is their choice.

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    Rename one the the Famous Five's parks? I wouldn't be surprised if it took place.

    After all, didn't Canada's Supreme Court rule against McKinney's rights case?

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    Saw this mentioned on Global news tonight... neat. (see link below)

    However, since we have the land, I still think an artificial beach and maybe a spray deck would be a low cost way to create a fun river valley attraction. (Avoiding many of the complications in making the river itself bathing / swimming safe. Limit it to boating, canoeing and kayaking.)

    Of course a big river-side outdoor wave pool or swimming pool would be nice - and very costly. I'd bet though, that just sand and sun would be enough to draw a lot of interest.

    Hungary Beach Barge.
    http://landscapearchitecture.tumblr....-on-the-danube


    via the link above or this link - also note the new foot bridge proposed for Calgary. Wow!!! Why can't we ever do designs like this?
    http://www.inhabitat.com/
    Last edited by KC; 22-08-2009 at 08:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    via the link above or this link - also note the new foot bridge proposed for Calgary. Wow!!! Why can't we ever do designs like this?
    http://www.inhabitat.com/
    To be fair, most of Calgary's existing footbridges are nothing like that one, and are, in fact, quite comparable to the footbridges we have here.

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    The High Line in New York - see the Jane's New York 2004 video where it mentions the possibility of an elevated beach and pool

    http://www.thehighline.org/galleries/videos

    Several of the videos are interesting and shows what a bit of creativity can do.


    Anyway, back to the issue of a beach - people want sand and sun with water as a backdrop and a place for a quick dip. Go to any beach and 10 times more people are on the sand vs in the water.

    So Edmonton could lay out a large area of sand for very little money and then later install a clean, safe water area on the opposite side of the beach from the river. The river thus becomes a backdrop, or a boating venue and the water deck, spray deck, swimming pool, wave pool or whatever (or all of the preceding) becomes the 'swimming' area. The sandy beach could even sit 10 20 feet above the river level on a terrace and I'm sure people would be pleased with it - it just has to face south and have good exposure throughout the day.

    Maybe the City could put sand all around the power plant, add some water/pool infrastructure and wooden walkways and it would get thousands out of their office buildings for a walk.
    Last edited by KC; 25-08-2009 at 11:35 PM.

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    An artificial beach along the North Saskatchewan is a brilliant idea!, along River Road between Groat Rd and the High Level bridge, close to Oliver, Downtown, and the University.
    Saskatoon put one in next to the Bessborough Hotel downtown, and Paris has been doing it for years, And face it both cities have a winter, if THEY can do it so can we.

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    Welcome to the worlds biggest kitty litter box.
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    ^?? You could write that about any natural beach in the world, or 90% of Edmonton's community league playgrounds.

  62. #62

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    ^Most natural beaches in the world are on the edges of oceans or seas. The tides come in clean the beach or wash stuff up on it. It is a natural process. You either have pristine beaches or not so pristine beaches. What natural process will clean an inshore beach. Build a beach in one of Edmonton's parks and the ferral cats will have better toilet vacilities than Whyte Ave. That's all we need to see in the spring. Yards of dirty sand needed to be cleaned or carted away. Yours truly, property tax pauper.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  63. #63

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    Put an eagle perch nearby?

    There would be maintenance costs. Where there's people there's always trash. The more popular the beach - the more trash to deal with.

    The point being, the more we can do to raise the living standard of our own city (in cost effective ways), the less need people will feel to ship themselves and a good chunk of their discretionary income to foreign places. Our city becomes wealthier and more desirable as a result.

  64. #64

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    I would rather see a few more features like fountains and flower beds in our parks than an artificial beach. Anyway, if they decided to do an artificial beach somewhere in Edmonton it would not be long before some fond fool would want to build a pyramid next to it. Shades of the Nile I think.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    Well, that's because you're old or boring (or perhaps both)

    I don't know, I think this is just another easy to do thing that would benefit a lot of people in the city. Look at the popularity already of places like Hawrelak Park, or Rundle, or the Leg Grounds on a nice day. Why not create a nice place to lay in the sun, play some volleyball or bocce and just hang out with friends? Is the cost of trash collection and cat-dropping cleaning really that big of an issue?

    If I've learnt anything from my current place of residence (hardly a glamourous world-class city either), it's that you can enjoy a beach, even if you can't go swimming...

    beach in the city next to the river:



    beach in the city centre on top of a department store:


    There's even another one in an old railyard next to a cement plant and a metal-scrap yard.

    Sure, beautifully manicured gardens with fountains are nice too, but sometimes its fun to actually use the park, rather than just walk through it, admiring the scenery. Although, I guess one can admire that at a beach too...

  66. #66

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    Old and boring. I'm crushed.
    Well maybe I will give you some leaway.
    Make a square patch of sand, say 125 x 125 ft. Enough so you can play volleyball or bocce. Enough so it can be covered with tarpaulin at night and when the season is over. Surround the sand with deck chairs so the guys can watch the gals and the gals can watch the guys. Or whoever watches who these days. Happy
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    hahahaha I'm sold!

    see.... even old guy can be fun some times.

  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    hahahaha I'm sold!

    see.... even old guy can be fun some times.
    Well actually, I'm a gal and not so old.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  69. #69

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    With the type of weather we have had of late it would have been a "washout" literally since the river is running quite high. If they had put any sand to create a artificial beach the citizens of Prince Albert would be the ones enjoying it.

  71. #71

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    Yes, but the sand could be placed quite high up the bank with some sort of buffer material between it and the river. People want sand to sit and play on.

    I don't even know if it would need some contiguous coverage going into the river. Below the museum there's a plateau that's quite high above the river that I think would work very well.

  72. #72

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    Soon I'll be too old to sit on any beach. Should we assume that if the market doesn't want it, it must have been a bad idea.

    P.S. I've never believed the market is always right.

  73. #73

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    River side golf course would be a nice spot for this or Victoria golf course. How many golf places does this city need. Beach would be way cooler

  74. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Instadylan View Post
    River side golf course would be a nice spot for this or Victoria golf course. How many golf places does this city need. Beach would be way cooler
    I'd thought that somewhere near groat bridge.

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    ... and beside it put a cool weir in such as this recently completed one in Calgary on the Bow


    (http://www.parksfdn.com/picts/Weir%20above.jpg)
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  76. #76

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    Its a shame we can't get the Province to create a beach for Edmonton, like in Calgary with the free beach Sikome Lake in Fish Creek Provincial Park (which IMO, for kids, is about the nicest beach in Alberta):



    A lake might be easier than River Valley, can swim then as well, and perhaps more sunlight for longer. Like Summerside's lake, only free and for everyone.

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    Ahh wonderfull weirs !!
    Would be great if we could add this to the River Valley Plan
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

  78. #78

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    Are there regulations preventing it?

  79. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Are there regulations preventing it?
    Not that I'm aware of. However, it's not like the Province didn't already try. Check out this April 26, 1974, front-page story in the Edmonton Journal about the intention to create a lake park to "give Edmonton a provincial urban recreation area to match Fish Creek Provincial Park ... ." However, this was to be accomplished by a weir on the North Saskatchewan itself and would have resulted in flooding significant portions of the river valley. Ultimately Edmonton didn't buy into the lake part of the concept.

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    I think any consruction would involve apoprovals from Fisheries + Oceans Canada
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    I think any consruction would involve apoprovals from Fisheries + Oceans Canada
    I think that's true.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

  82. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Are there regulations preventing it?
    Not that I'm aware of. However, it's not like the Province didn't already try. Check out this April 26, 1974, front-page story in the Edmonton Journal about the intention to create a lake park to "give Edmonton a provincial urban recreation area to match Fish Creek Provincial Park ... ." However, this was to be accomplished by a weir on the North Saskatchewan itself and would have resulted in flooding significant portions of the river valley. Ultimately Edmonton didn't buy into the lake part of the concept.
    That's a shame, Edmonton could have a nice lake going through the middle of the city if it wanted to, and have hydro electricity as a bonus.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  83. #83

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    It's not about being in the water, it's about being beside the water. Note in the article the comments about the business development success. It's a 'destination' for tens of thousands.


    BBC News - The 'embarrassing' Italian holiday riviera

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19361279

    "What is unique about this coast, stretching 68 miles from Ravenna down to the south of Rimini, is its enormous popularity - in spite of the unanimous agreement that the sea is, well, just not very nice."

    "It is a turbid greenish-brown that makes you feel like you are swimming in a giant muddy puddle..."

    "Most astonishing of all is that nobody cares. That is because bathing is not what coastal tourism here is about."...

    "Incredible to think that not long ago this was mostly undeveloped, malaria-infested marshland."
    Last edited by KC; 26-08-2012 at 12:12 AM.

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    I wonder how a beach would do in the instance where water levels have been high this summer. I think the lake idea may work better with Wascana Creek (Regina) or Fish Creek (Calgary). Perhaps the best (short-term) strategy for our river valley may be proceeding with a boardwalk from the Shaw to Rossdale.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  85. #85

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    The beach south of the fort edm foOtbridge was submerged under a few feet Of water for most of the summer if a permanent artificial beach was created it would have to be off a canal or man made diversion of the river

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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  87. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I wonder how a beach would do in the instance where water levels have been high this summer. I think the lake idea may work better with Wascana Creek (Regina) or Fish Creek (Calgary). Perhaps the best (short-term) strategy for our river valley may be proceeding with a boardwalk from the Shaw to Rossdale.
    I'd love to see some sort of boardwalk down there. However, not one that wipes out all the riverbank ecosystem though. Maybe one that would have forks that periodically snake right out over the water a number of metres at viewpoints then curl back ashore behind the treeline.

    Nonetheless, an artificial riverside beach would work well where a boardwalk bordered the riverbank laying between the beach and the river's edge.

  88. #88

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    This should be good. Family focused! I bet a lot of the cost relates to making the water safe for kids.

    A riverside beach wouldn't even try for a kidsafe in-the-river experience as that wouldn't be the objective. Instead focus on teen and adult beach side activities, eating, etc. and possibly various boating activities (canoe, kayak, etc.). Maybe an onshore pool, water feature. This could bring in people from all over the city and possibly other towns.

    Edmonton moves ahead on Hawrelak Park beach 101
    BY ANGELIQUE RODRIGUES ,EDMONTON SUN MONDAY, JUNE 25, 2012

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/06/2...lak-park-beach

    "Edmonton’s Community Services Committee voted Monday to move forward with a new idea for a beach area – complete with sand and a wading pool – between the lake and the parking lot.

    “Right now in Hawrelak Park, there is no water experience that actually lets kids get into the water, so this could fill that need,” said Coun. Ben Henderson Monday."
    Last edited by KC; 27-08-2012 at 09:11 AM.

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    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-to-e...river-1.956814

    Some city councillors are hoping an urban beach along the river valley is in Edmonton’s future.

    A motion was passed in March asking administration to provide a report in September with information on the possibility of a beach play area along the North Saskatchewan River.

    There are currently three urban beaches in Canada – two in Toronto and one in Montreal – and a number of urban beaches in European cities.

    “In cities that have amenities like this it’s a huge attraction and with the kind of hot summer we had I know people would love a place like this to go to and they love being near the river so I think it’s worth looking at,” said Coun. Don Iveson.

    Read more: http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-to-e...#ixzz26ZKdYzur
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-to-e...river-1.956814

    Some city councillors are hoping an urban beach along the river valley is in Edmonton’s future.

    A motion was passed in March asking administration to provide a report in September with information on the possibility of a beach play area along the North Saskatchewan River.

    There are currently three urban beaches in Canada – two in Toronto and one in Montreal – and a number of urban beaches in European cities.

    “In cities that have amenities like this it’s a huge attraction and with the kind of hot summer we had I know people would love a place like this to go to and they love being near the river so I think it’s worth looking at,” said Coun. Don Iveson.

    Read more: http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-to-e...#ixzz26ZKdYzur
    Do not forget Vancouver, Those qualify as "urban" beaches as well. As they are not "100%" natural.

  91. #91

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    I've said this before....................River Valley, sand, feral cats, giant litter box. No thanks.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    ^ And that position is just as nonsensical then as it is now, even by your standards.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFvm9...7&feature=plcp

    Beach alongside the river in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    Default Beach on the North Saskatchewan

    Beach on the North Saskatchewan - click here for the global story

    Riddle me this....we can boat on it...dragon boat on it...fish and wade in it...now contemplate a beach...

    ...but running the HLB waterfall with the very water that is in the river is somehow...hazardous???

    ...yes...the story says that it may not involve river access...but then what's the point?

    Still, I've always liked this idea...a protected beach inside a breakwater to keep the current to a minimum, but flush it often naturally...
    Onward and upward

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    Here is a link to the Journal article
    Onward and upward

  96. #96

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    ^ Spot on Richard. There is far too much bafflegab and unsubstantiated edicts comming from government offices we rely on for information. It's not so much that they say these things but that they are not challenged by our elected officials to clarify their meaning and intent if any. Who do you trust?
    "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand;they listen with the intent to reply.

  97. #97

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    If there is no water attached, this project better max out at $1 000000. Not in the range of the 60mil that was proposed for Hawerlak beach. Are there not enough playgrounds with sand? How about the good old backyard sandbox? There are at least 10 beaches within a 45 minute drive of the city that should suffice for the three months of summer we get, that people would actually enjoy a beach.

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    Pour a bunch of sand for sitting on and some for beach volleyball in LMP. Done.
    www.decl.org

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  99. #99

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    ^that or the Kinsmen field right beside the new Queen E pool.

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    The comment I posted on the Journal article:

    Put this

    At Louise Mckinney Park, the Kinsmen, or the Rossdale Power Plant. Tie it in with the trails and build the wall higher than the high-water mark, with a pier-like fence. Done and done. Nobody would go in the water, no sand would get swept away, we'd get a continuous trail (to the Walterdale Bridge and across). Voila! Rossdale would be perfect for this, actually.

    **EDIT** Less concrete...more sand...you get the idea.

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