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Thread: BMO Building (101 St. & 102 Ave.) | Discussion

  1. #501
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    ^Here I was thinking that went without saying.

  2. #502

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    You think so right?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  3. #503

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    Chances they incorporate a rebuilt Tegler façade?
    With what excatly it was blown up and not saved at all
    One small section was saved and is now part of the rebuilt Alberta Hotel.

    Bricks were used for part of Tegler Manor on 110 st.

  4. #504
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    In case the right people are ghosting this thread lol. Here are some hotel brands that would be nice to see in the new project:
    WYNDHAM: Grand or Hotel
    PAN PACIFIC
    HILTON: Hotel or higher
    IGH: Intercontinental or Crowne Plaza
    ACCOR: Novatel or higher

  5. #505

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    Mandarin
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  6. #506

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    uhh... Shangri La guys

  7. #507
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    ^^^

    wyndham is here although not with the top tiers of their brands.
    hlton was here with a hiltion hotel and left and are still here with some of their lesser brands.
    igh was here with the crowne plaza and left and are still here with some of their lesser brands.
    accor is here now with the hotel macdonald.

    ^^

    we're not likely to get a mandarin in the foreseeable future - even vancouver couldn't maintain theirs and it was purpose-built for them.

    ^

    we might see a shangri-la here sometime before a mandarin but only because the brand is already in toronto and vancouver although a traders or a jen would probably be a better fit for our market.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  8. #508
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    Need something for the BMO and that massive tower next to the Shaw (if that project is still alive).

  9. #509

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^^^

    wyndham is here although not with the top tiers of their brands.
    hlton was here with a hiltion hotel and left and are still here with some of their lesser brands.
    igh was here with the crowne plaza and left and are still here with some of their lesser brands.
    accor is here now with the hotel macdonald.

    ^^

    we're not likely to get a mandarin in the foreseeable future - even vancouver couldn't maintain theirs and it was purpose-built for them.

    ^

    we might see a shangri-la here sometime before a mandarin but only because the brand is already in toronto and vancouver although a traders or a jen would probably be a better fit for our market.
    Im well aware of the Mandarin wish Ken; it was a fun jab. It's more expensive than Marriott so definitelt no. It's my favorite hotel for Asia.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  10. #510

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    It would be nice to pull of a Shangri La before Cagary does so that our high end products are different than their's.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  11. #511

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    Would be nice for Four Seasons to make an Edmonton return too...

  12. #512

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    Quote Originally Posted by glendroid View Post
    Would be nice for Four Seasons to make an Edmonton return too...
    The Tegler facade recreated with a Four Seasons hotel there would be wonderful.

    I liked the Four Seasons when it was here it was very good quality.

  13. #513

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    Chances they incorporate a rebuilt Tegler façade?
    With what excatly it was blown up and not saved at all
    My understanding was that some of the bricks (not sure the quantity or quality) we're stored...anyone able to confirm that?

  14. #514

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    Bricks were used on Tegler Manor on 110th street.

  15. #515

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Bricks were used on Tegler Manor on 110th street.
    Yes, I got that. I think it was noted in earlier posts on this topic, so the re-creation would be a replication not a restoration of the original.

  16. #516
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    Going back to why it's taking so long for tower designs, it's likely due to the replication of the Tegler.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  17. #517
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    ^I really hope you're right!

  18. #518
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    I dont want that old brick facade - as it restricts the type of businesses that may may be interested in the space. For example: Holts has been considering an expansion and Manulife has a challenging layout so it might not happen there or at all if Holts can't find some good space. The ground floor in BMO and into the 2nd 3rd floors of the new podium would be large and perfect. Holts is one example of a business that likes a more modern look.

  19. #519

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    And there are other retailers who like the restored classic look. As a passerby I know which I would prefer.

    It's a big building, there's roof for a modern West Façade, reconstructed East and cool fusion north.
    There can only be one.

  20. #520

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Bricks were used on Tegler Manor on 110th street.
    Yes, I got that. I think it was noted in earlier posts on this topic, so the re-creation would be a replication not a restoration of the original.
    It was dedinitely detonated, so there is no choice but to replicate. Let's just hope the bricks can be feasibly done. If a replicated facade is not viable, i wouldn't mind a revival of the old BMO building as a podium - with better glazings and interactions at ground level. They could go after a department store to anchor the ground level to coincide with the hotel. Even an urban Samsung store or something to that degree would suffice. This corner needs an iconic brand store. Thoughts on brands fitting for this slot?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  21. #521
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    Zero chance that this will resemble the Tegler in any way, shape or form.

  22. #522

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    UPCOMING APPLICATIONS, CONFLICTS AND REGRETS (October 16, 201

    101 Tower / BMO Site
    Formal
    Jimmy Amichandwala - Der Architects

  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    101 Tower / BMO Site
    Formal
    Jimmy Amichandwala - Der Architects
    Raise your hand up if you think this is going to be an amazing project with these guys on the case!
    Anyone?

    Hopefully Regency has run out of their red stucco colour on other projects.

  24. #524

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    Any potential renders on the way shortly or right away?

    ^
    It should be "WORLD CLASS" for that location .
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  25. #525
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    You mean this wont actually be a gravel parking lot in the center of downtown??? This isn't the edmonton way, I dont like it...knocking over buildings to build new buildings isnt what we do here.

  26. #526

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    101 Tower / BMO Site
    Formal
    Jimmy Amichandwala - Der Architects
    Raise your hand up if you think this is going to be an amazing project with these guys on the case!
    Anyone?
    Never heard of them. I guess I'm not enough of an architecture nerd.

  27. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    101 Tower / BMO Site
    Formal
    Jimmy Amichandwala - Der Architects
    Raise your hand up if you think this is going to be an amazing project with these guys on the case!
    Anyone?
    Never heard of them. I guess I'm not enough of an architecture nerd.
    They're internationally known for their renowned works, such as:
    Sturgeon Medical Centre (https://www.der-architects.com/sturgeon)
    Cassel Office Building (https://www.der-architects.com/cassel)
    Stafford Greens (https://www.der-architects.com/staffordgreens2)
    Artisan (https://www.der-architects.com/artisan)
    Caraedon (https://www.der-architects.com/careodon)

    The last one, in particular, is a real beauty and checks off all the architectural marvels checklist. Roof doohickeys. Bold, clashing colours. Unwelcoming and poorly defined entrances. Range rover and G-wagons in the rendering. And a couple. Pointing at seagulls.

    Until recently, the had a lot of hipster street cred for using decade-old rendering software. They still have some street cred for their 90's chic website.
    Last edited by nobleea; 27-09-2018 at 03:49 PM.

  28. #528

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    You mean this wont actually be a gravel parking lot in the center of downtown??? This isn't the edmonton way, I dont like it...knocking over buildings to build new buildings isnt what we do here.
    Moa! Long time no ceaselessly poking at the flaws of a town you can't escape!
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  29. #529
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    No worse than PRT living in Montreal

  30. #530

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    101 Tower / BMO Site
    Formal
    Jimmy Amichandwala - Der Architects
    Raise your hand up if you think this is going to be an amazing project with these guys on the case!
    Anyone?
    Never heard of them. I guess I'm not enough of an architecture nerd.
    They're internationally known for their renowned works, such as:
    Sturgeon Medical Centre (https://www.der-architects.com/sturgeon)
    Cassel Office Building (https://www.der-architects.com/cassel)
    Stafford Greens (https://www.der-architects.com/staffordgreens2)
    Artisan (https://www.der-architects.com/artisan)
    Caraedon (https://www.der-architects.com/careodon)

    The last one, in particular, is a real beauty and checks off all the architectural marvels checklist. Roof doohickeys. Bold, clashing colours. Unwelcoming and poorly defined entrances. Range rover and G-wagons in the rendering. And a couple. Pointing at seagulls.

    Until recently, the had a lot of hipster street cred for using decade-old rendering software. They still have some street cred for their 90's chic website.
    Man this could potentially suck. Best case scenario with these guys is something like Emerald with a more normally coloured podium.

  31. #531

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    What is wrong with Emerald?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  32. #532
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    DER is neither capable nor have the capacity to successfully design, produce high quality construction documents or provide high quality construction administration services for a major Tower in the heart of Edmonton's financial centre. For that matter nor is this developer. Financial backers: run now.

  33. #533

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    Huh?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  34. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Huh?
    Look at their body of work in Edmonton.

  35. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    What is wrong with Emerald?
    There's nothing wrong with it, as there is with everything else they've done. It's inoffensive. It's just a 10 story tower, copy and pasted three times. It's just not great or inspiring.
    Der is also the designer behind the mish mash design of Holyrood Gardens (now with 20% more red stucco).

    Now, maybe an office tower is easier to make decent since there are no balconies to integrate and would be mostly window wall. I'm an eternal optimist I guess.

  36. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Huh?
    Look at their body of work in Edmonton.
    He could and may contract serious help if it’s a supertall with complexities.

  37. #537

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    101 Tower / BMO Site
    Formal
    Jimmy Amichandwala - Der Architects
    Raise your hand up if you think this is going to be an amazing project with these guys on the case!
    Anyone?
    Never heard of them. I guess I'm not enough of an architecture nerd.
    They're internationally known for their renowned works, such as:
    Sturgeon Medical Centre (https://www.der-architects.com/sturgeon)
    Cassel Office Building (https://www.der-architects.com/cassel)
    Stafford Greens (https://www.der-architects.com/staffordgreens2)
    Artisan (https://www.der-architects.com/artisan)
    Caraedon (https://www.der-architects.com/careodon)

    The last one, in particular, is a real beauty and checks off all the architectural marvels checklist. Roof doohickeys. Bold, clashing colours. Unwelcoming and poorly defined entrances. Range rover and G-wagons in the rendering. And a couple. Pointing at seagulls.

    Until recently, the had a lot of hipster street cred for using decade-old rendering software. They still have some street cred for their 90's chic website.
    You had me going there. And then I opened the links. And then I shed a tear for our downtown.

  38. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messiah View Post
    You had me going there. And then I opened the links. And then I shed a tear for our downtown.
    Emerald was a step up from previous Der designs. I just don't think they ever had an opportunity to design something like this before. You never know, this design might be a step up from the Emerald. I'd give it a chance, and either way they have to put it through EDC first.
    Edmonton is a very exciting place to be right now.

  39. #539

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    Aren't the designs mostly driven by the developer anyway, I mean in terms of goals, vision, budget. That kind of stuff has huge impact on final design. Anybody can design a nice tower but if the developer is looking to build a low income rental walkup, your design is going to reflect that. Let's just hope that with this location they're looking to make a statement.

  40. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Aren't the designs mostly driven by the developer anyway, I mean in terms of goals, vision, budget. That kind of stuff has huge impact on final design. Anybody can design a nice tower but if the developer is looking to build a low income rental walkup, your design is going to reflect that. Let's just hope that with this location they're looking to make a statement.
    They're driven by the budget, yes. However, Architects are not a commodity. Like engineers, doctors and other professionals, some graduated at the top of their class, and others graduated at the bottom. No architect says, I want to charge less money. They do it because they aren't very creative or original.

  41. #541

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    Schooling teaches technical aspects; schooling will not make one become creative. One either has it or don't.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  42. #542

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    Yes, and I'm hoping that these guys haven't yet had the opportunity to show how creative they can be. Just trying to stay positive.

  43. #543
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    Looking at their body of work I have to say I’m impressed. I for one look forward to having a podium inspired by WEMs Scotiabank theatre right in the heart of beautiful downtown Edmonton.

  44. #544

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    Well, let's see what ends up being proposed before splashing ugly all over it already.

  45. #545

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    My belief is not to ASSUME.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  46. #546

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    It’s a pretty prominent site. I think they can possibly do a good job but I also think standards should be raised pretty high. It’s beside classic Manulife and the very attractive Enbridge Place.

    Ice District, Ultima/Encore are also a couple blocks away. That should be the minimum expectation.

    Providing they raise their own standards, I can see these guys building something decent or okay. But I don’t think it’s a bad thing that some of us want something not ‘just okay’ but borderline exceptional in that spot.

    I really hope they can avoid the bright colours with this one. Seems to be something they like including in the projects.

  47. #547

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    They know, so I won't fear about that. The problem with many here is that they fail to understand that there are different demographic of income earners. A person wanting a "downtown core" living should know there is a price tag to it. This goes for every city. Let's not play naive now. If we can see simple logic, wouldn't developers see the same? Which developer or architect firm want to deminish their reputation like that?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  48. #548

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    They know, so I won't fear about that. The problem with many here is that they fail to understand that there are different demographic of income earners. A person wanting a "downtown core" living should know there is a price tag to it. This goes for every city. Let's not play naive now. If we can see simple logic, wouldn't developers see the same? Which developer or architect firm want to deminish their reputation like that?
    Can any blame be laid on the city though? They should sell land for cheap, if the developer creates a clause to sell units at x price. Then sell those units in the same process low income earners can get rentals.

  49. #549

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    If you want to but I won't. There are always solutions. The problem with mixing is that snobbers don't want that. If you sell or advertise high end, and put money down for that only to find out your building is not high end after all. People invest in certain climate and expect "the climate." Snobbers exist unfortunately and wouldn't go for this. Go to any high area, do you see any cheap homes? That, alone, devalues neighboring properties hence that old saying," birds of a feather..." If a tower is built for the blue collar I would totally get that. For example, the two towers on the east side of the core by Regency is a perfect marriage . It is reasonable to suspect that lower income bracket would coincide better wit blue collar bracket as that is what the towe appear to cater to.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  50. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3RI3S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    They know, so I won't fear about that. The problem with many here is that they fail to understand that there are different demographic of income earners. A person wanting a "downtown core" living should know there is a price tag to it. This goes for every city. Let's not play naive now. If we can see simple logic, wouldn't developers see the same? Which developer or architect firm want to deminish their reputation like that?
    Can any blame be laid on the city though? They should sell land for cheap, if the developer creates a clause to sell units at x price. Then sell those units in the same process low income earners can get rentals.
    the cost of the land isn’t really that material. at 200 psf of land and 12 times far, the land cost psf of finished space is about 16.67. on a condo that needs to sell for 600 psf plus to make a reasonable return, even if the land cost was free it wouldn’t make that much difference to the affordability. on a rental basis, 16.67 at a 5% return would amount to 7 cents psf per month or 45 bucks a month on a 650 sf apartment.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  51. #551

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by S3RI3S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    They know, so I won't fear about that. The problem with many here is that they fail to understand that there are different demographic of income earners. A person wanting a "downtown core" living should know there is a price tag to it. This goes for every city. Let's not play naive now. If we can see simple logic, wouldn't developers see the same? Which developer or architect firm want to deminish their reputation like that?
    Can any blame be laid on the city though? They should sell land for cheap, if the developer creates a clause to sell units at x price. Then sell those units in the same process low income earners can get rentals.
    the cost of the land isn’t really that material. at 200 psf of land and 12 times far, the land cost psf of finished space is about 16.67. on a condo that needs to sell for 600 psf plus to make a reasonable return, even if the land cost was free it wouldn’t make that much difference to the affordability. on a rental basis, 16.67 at a 5% return would amount to 7 cents psf per month or 45 bucks a month on a 650 sf apartment.
    There was a conversation somewhere here a while ago that a high/mid rise needed to be atleast 15 floors to become economically viable? And whats up with Edmonton using concrete for all its high rises - we arent seismic. I imagine steel is cheaper.

    All im saying is there is an opportunity to develop Edmonton, but price is a huge factor and as bold as this my sound - the arena may hurt downtown in the long run. Why sell to the top 15%, When you can cater to a larger market and maybe make more money. I dont know, the prices of condos just dont add up in my head.

  52. #552

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    During the boom , I understood the inflationary aspect due to massive steel required for the oil sands, but that has come to a complete hault. The concrete is also not in high demand like the boom. Most trade jobs have seen a wage reduction, so I wonder the same. I could very well see this in a naive perspective, but I remembered those were the prime reasonings given for high cost during the boom. Someone like Ken with experience would most likely have a more plausible and we'll rounded perspective.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  53. #553
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    Had lunch with Raj from Regency today, exciting plans, but market dependent.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  54. #554

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Had lunch with Raj from Regency today, exciting plans, but market dependent.
    So a mainly residential building.

  55. #555

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Had lunch with Raj from Regency today, exciting plans, but market dependent.
    Did he show you a render?

  56. #556
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    How tall is it, how tall is it, how tall is it. lol

  57. #557

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    Will it make a big impact to the skyline? This tower along with Procura, and one of the Falcon's tower are important strategic placements that are important for the visual affect of the core. Those three will he Stantec's lack of girth for the south elevation .
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  58. #558

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    Job No 294844309-001
    Description: To construct a 50-storey mixed-use building (Hotel, Professional, Financial, and Office Support Service, General Retail Store, Restaurant, Bar and Neighbourhood Pub and Apartment Housing)
    Location: 10199 - 101 STREET NW
    Plan F Lots 43-46
    Applicant: DER + ASSOCIATES ARCHITECTURE LTD
    Status: Intake - Payment Required
    Create Date: 10/10/2018 4:37:04 PM

  59. #559
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    Well that's really exciting to see a first step on this plot of land so quickly.

  60. #560

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    Sounds promising.

  61. #561
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    Well that's an exciting description. Still not enthused about DER being the architect, but I'll reserve judgment for the eventual renders.

  62. #562
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    They want to get going on the parkade/Footings/Foundation and then see where the market is in ~ two years to then decided if, when and how to go up.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  63. #563
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    City committee to hear proposal for new tower at former BMO building site in downtown Edmonton

    Now that the former site of BMO (Bank of Montreal) in downtown Edmonton is sitting empty, a city committee is set to hear about a proposal to build a 50-storey mixed-use tower on the prime piece of real estate.

    A city document shows the Edmonton design committee is scheduled to hear a presentation about the proposed high-rise at 10199 101 St. on Tuesday. Jimmy Amichandwala with Der Associates Architecture Ltd. will speak to the committee at a formal presentation that is open to the public.
    The tower proposal says the high-rise would include a hotel as well as professional and office space, retail stores, a restaurant and a bar.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  64. #564

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    A quick off the head guestimation puts her between 180m- 200m. just as I wished for.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  65. #565
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    175-180m is my bet.
    www.decl.org

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  66. #566

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    Job No 294844309-001
    Description: To construct a 50-storey mixed-use building (Hotel, Professional, Financial, and Office Support Service, General Retail Store, Restaurant, Bar and Neighbourhood Pub and Apartment Housing)
    Location: 10199 - 101 STREET NW
    Plan F Lots 43-46
    Applicant: DER + ASSOCIATES ARCHITECTURE LTD
    Status: Intake - Payment Required
    Create Date: 10/10/2018 4:37:04 PM
    Meh. Another lets jam as much as we can to create height/sell katz style product. Lets talk about confidence in the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    They want to get going on the parkade/Footings/Foundation and then see where the market is in ~ two years to then decided if, when and how to go up.
    Calling it now, someone out of the conglomerate pulls out classic edmonton bait and switch.

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    Regency does not sit around on projects.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  68. #568

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Regency does not sit around on projects.
    Its not the time frame im concerned about, that just creates loss for the developer. Im implying that the projects only goes downhill from here. This 50 story building turns into a 30 story hotel/rental unit. Which in turn just lets down Edmonton one more time with its developers shady practices.
    Last edited by S3RI3S; 13-10-2018 at 12:41 PM. Reason: engrish

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    Why would you believe that might be the case?
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    They just built the Pearl then Edgewater and are starting the 45 storey Emerald so I’m sure on this property they could, and will easily do 50 floors.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 13-10-2018 at 02:02 PM.

  71. #571

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Why would you believe that might be the case?
    The market is horrid right now, last i read sales for condos year to year fell 20%. Im not understanding how downtown can support another hotel chain either , unless its only 5 floors of this highrise. I know im jumping the gun here, but this is a PRIME location, and i dont want to be filled with some low rise trash because the developer couldnt stick to their word.

  72. #572

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    The problem is you stated, "right now" By the time they decide will be two years and a minimum 2 years for construction, so markets will change- or can change. The LNG project will require massive trained Alberta trades people . I'm confident the pipeline will be negotiated and go forward,so the confidence could quickly pick up just as few examples. If conditions warrant a shorter tower, we gain height even at 32 floors which will still add a complete different vibe to that corner.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3RI3S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Why would you believe that might be the case?
    The market is horrid right now, last i read sales for condos year to year fell 20%. Im not understanding how downtown can support another hotel chain either , unless its only 5 floors of this highrise. I know im jumping the gun here, but this is a PRIME location, and i dont want to be filled with some low rise trash because the developer couldnt stick to their word.
    The condo market is mediocre to poor right now. What will the market be in 3-10 years when this project is completed, depending on the start date and how long they pause with the podium/parkade?

  74. #574

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    The problem is you stated, "right now" By the time they decide will be two years and a minimum 2 years for construction, so markets will change- or can change. The LNG project will require massive trained Alberta trades people . I'm confident the pipeline will be negotiated and go forward,so the confidence could quickly pick up just as few examples. If conditions warrant a shorter tower, we gain height even at 32 floors which will still add a complete different vibe to that corner.
    Yes and no, engineering is done before shovels hit the ground. So i guess if iano is right we do have a chance until the parkade is built. but if the market is sloppy till then, its doomed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3RI3S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Why would you believe that might be the case?
    The market is horrid right now, last i read sales for condos year to year fell 20%. Im not understanding how downtown can support another hotel chain either , unless its only 5 floors of this highrise. I know im jumping the gun here, but this is a PRIME location, and i dont want to be filled with some low rise trash because the developer couldnt stick to their word.
    It would be a permanent scar on Edmontons face if this developer fails to deliver a significant amount / floors of Class A office space in that very prime CORE location ... with a stellar design. I have no issue with bottom retail, a hotel, condo - apartments - but this is the best opportunity to add 10-20 floors of office Class A office with a large floor plate.

  76. #576

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3RI3S View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    The problem is you stated, "right now" By the time they decide will be two years and a minimum 2 years for construction, so markets will change- or can change. The LNG project will require massive trained Alberta trades people . I'm confident the pipeline will be negotiated and go forward,so the confidence could quickly pick up just as few examples. If conditions warrant a shorter tower, we gain height even at 32 floors which will still add a complete different vibe to that corner.
    Yes and no, engineering is done before shovels hit the ground. So i guess if iano is right we do have a chance until the parkade is built. but if the market is sloppy till then, its doomed.
    You can look at it that way, but I think this project could be done if they take the "outside the box" approach. Engineer the podium for their maximum height desired, and build in stages. Let say first stage is podium, hotel and office- we'lll say 15 floors for hotel and 10 floors for an office, and what ever height for a podium. Second stage can be residence when market dictates that demand. I hope some developer happen to read this...They don't have to devalue any quality to this spot if they can procure a creative solution. If they do want to approach stage development, it is wise to prep up for the least inconvenience to tenants with vibration and noise etc. How that would be mitigated is up to them. I'm totally empathetic to the "nervous feeling" though. It is a prominent corner and must have proper aesthetics.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 13-10-2018 at 05:46 PM.
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  77. #577

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    How are you supposed to add floors to an occupied building? Is everyone supposed to move out while construction is underway or do you forsee people working and living underneath an active construction zone?

  78. #578

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    What I had quickly thought of was that they build in this sequence:
    1. The podium
    2. Hotel
    3. Office
    At this stage add 3 residential floor on top of the office portion for a niche market of short term rental. These 3 floors would eventually cease operation as expansion take place. The three former residential would act as buffers to all aspects below; the two top floors would be used for staging materials while the bottom third are offices and housings. No mess on the street accept hoardings. Ensure Rice Howard way is the hotel entrance and remain unimpeded during construction. Crazy?

    Add on:

    I didn't factor in on the legal issue or OHS code guide, so these two alone could easily prevent that idea from any further thoughts. It would be interesting to hear from Ken and other developer on this wild thought.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 13-10-2018 at 06:30 PM.
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  79. #579

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    We will never know, but im assuming regency or whatever is using loaned money for this project? If not , they do have the potential to build out and sit on it for a while? Im looking out for the best interests of downtown.

    If one developer fails... another will swoop in and take its place.

  80. #580

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    What I had quickly thought of was that they build in this sequence:
    1. The podium
    2. Hotel
    3. Office
    At this stage add 3 residential floor on top of the office portion for a niche market of short term rental. These 3 floors would eventually cease operation as expansion take place. The three former residential would act as buffers to all aspects below; the two top floors would be used for staging materials while the bottom third are offices and housings. No mess on the street accept hoardings. Ensure Rice Howard way is the hotel entrance and remain unimpeded during construction. Crazy?

    Add on:

    I didn't factor in on the legal issue or OHS code guide, so these two alone could easily prevent that idea from any further thoughts. It would be interesting to hear from Ken and other developer on this wild thought.
    All of the construction downtown is already enough to drive me crazy at times, never mind people trying to work and shop in a building that its self is an active construction zone. Dealing with the noise, crane, OH&S, and the limitations of trying to build a building to begin with. Also if you are going to go through the cost of building these three residential floors, why not just build say 10 more? Or whatever would be enough to generate the profit that would be lost from not having those three floors occupied and retrofitting the building for the additional floors.

    I don't understand why you go on these tangents of how you would build these buildings when you have no involvement said project. Talking about the height, building purpose, or design to some extent sure knock yourself out, but leave the actual design and execution of these projects to the professionals that are hired to do the job and those that have invested their money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    How are you supposed to add floors to an occupied building? Is everyone supposed to move out while construction is underway or do you forsee people working and living underneath an active construction zone?
    well that is what’s currently going on with stantec tower...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  82. #582

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    How are you supposed to add floors to an occupied building? Is everyone supposed to move out while construction is underway or do you forsee people working and living underneath an active construction zone?
    well that is what’s currently going on with stantec tower...
    I thought of that as well, the Stantec offices are open but the company is moving in their work force not the general public. By the time Stantec offices are fully operational the crane should be down (or close to it), a big difference compared to a year or so for adding to the existing tower.

    Good luck trying to run a hotel in a building that is still being built...
    Last edited by Kreation; 13-10-2018 at 10:01 PM.

  83. #583

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    How are you supposed to add floors to an occupied building? Is everyone supposed to move out while construction is underway or do you forsee people working and living underneath an active construction zone?
    well that is what’s currently going on with stantec tower...
    Right Ken. Let's open up the podiums of the buildings under construction while the cranes are lifting steel or concrete or what have you. As soon as a floor can be occupied, then it should be occupied. Get the hotel to open the lobby and add floors as they're ready instead of opening the hotel once it's ready.

    Get the province to change the safety legislation to allow the public to move freely on active construction zones.

    Seriously? Tell you what. Move the Stantec people into the office potion of the tower and THEN start construction of the condos and see how that goes over.

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    Anything can be done. But there's always a cost. Phasing building construction as ctzn-ed suggests would be incredibly expensive and difficult. And with a lot of the additional costs likely being applicable to the first phase (larger services, boilers, pumps, elevators, foundation etc etc), it makes the initial phase less viable. Not more.

    Stantec isn't phased, it's all being built at the same time, with staggered occupancy.

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    u
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    How are you supposed to add floors to an occupied building? Is everyone supposed to move out while construction is underway or do you forsee people working and living underneath an active construction zone?
    well that is what’s currently going on with stantec tower...
    Right Ken. Let's open up the podiums of the buildings under construction while the cranes are lifting steel or concrete or what have you. As soon as a floor can be occupied, then it should be occupied. Get the hotel to open the lobby and add floors as they're ready instead of opening the hotel once it's ready.

    Get the province to change the safety legislation to allow the public to move freely on active construction zones.

    Seriously? Tell you what. Move the Stantec people into the office potion of the tower and THEN start construction of the condos and see how that goes over.
    you need to open your eyes a bit - that’s not what i said.

    you need to respond more to what other people actually say and not what you want them to have said.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  86. #586

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    I said
    How are you supposed to add floors to an occupied building?
    And you responded
    well that is what’s currently going on with stantec tower.
    Or are you ignoring the fact the the conversation is about adding floors to an occupied building and not about some relatively minor (in comparison) construction on the tower? Is the tower and podium fully occupied and they are only now starting to build the condos? No? Then it's not the same thing, is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Anything can be done. But there's always a cost. Phasing building construction as ctzn-ed suggests would be incredibly expensive and difficult. And with a lot of the additional costs likely being applicable to the first phase (larger services, boilers, pumps, elevators, foundation etc etc), it makes the initial phase less viable. Not more.

    Stantec isn't phased, it's all being built at the same time, with staggered occupancy.
    it depends on what’s being phased and why. it’s reasonably easy to design phases if you have a reasonable indication of what each stage is going to consist of. all of the various components (ie parking, office, hotel, residential) have optimum footprints including grid, plate size, core and exiting etc.).

    any phasing is likely to be for finite components within the project (ie parkade, office, hotel, residential) so that those phases can be delivered when there is market demand for them (provided you start at the bottom and work up ).

    the only components that that need to be substantially overbuilt are the foundations, structural components at the losers levels, and accommodating future stairwells and elevator shafts which are often separate anyway. while there might be some oversizing for mechanical and electrical, that’s probably main services only - if needed - as each component is likely to be large enough to have its own plant.

    bentall 5 was designed that way even though both components were office in order to have marketable “chunks” even though it ended up being built more like stantec. i’m not positive but i would guess that stantec could have been phased as well if need be. i was involved in several phased tower designs at station lands in addition to phasing the parkade.

    yes, there are some additional incremental costs at the beginning but they are more than off set by reducing the holding costs on the land and by the revenue/returns provided by the first phases.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I said
    How are you supposed to add floors to an occupied building?
    And you responded
    well that is what’s currently going on with stantec tower.
    Or are you ignoring the fact the the conversation is about adding floors to an occupied building and not about some relatively minor (in comparison) construction on the tower? Is the tower and podium fully occupied and they are only now starting to build the condos? No? Then it's not the same thing, is it?
    they’re still building the mechanical floors in case you haven’t noticed. mechanical equipment (boilers and chillers) are all swapped out of occupied buildings when the original equipment fails. roofs are redone, elevators replaced, curtainwall removed and replaced all the time in occupied buildings. it is the same, whether it’s for one floor or fifteen floors. the safety measures that need to be in place and respected are the same and the nuisance and noise concerns need to managed the same way whether you’re building above or renovating the floor below.

    as i said, you need to respond to what’s said and not what you want to have been said and if you’re not sure of the difference you should ask before assuming.
    Last edited by kcantor; 14-10-2018 at 12:07 PM. Reason: typos
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    The Stantec is quite restricted in terms of where you can go. The retail area is still closed, along with the pedways.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  90. #590

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreation View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    What I had quickly thought of was that they build in this sequence:
    1. The podium
    2. Hotel
    3. Office
    At this stage add 3 residential floor on top of the office portion for a niche market of short term rental. These 3 floors would eventually cease operation as expansion take place. The three former residential would act as buffers to all aspects below; the two top floors would be used for staging materials while the bottom third are offices and housings. No mess on the street accept hoardings. Ensure Rice Howard way is the hotel entrance and remain unimpeded during construction. Crazy?

    Add on:

    I didn't factor in on the legal issue or OHS code guide, so these two alone could easily prevent that idea from any further thoughts. It would be interesting to hear from Ken and other developer on this wild thought.
    All of the construction downtown is already enough to drive me crazy at times, never mind people trying to work and shop in a building that its self is an active construction zone. Dealing with the noise, crane, OH&S, and the limitations of trying to build a building to begin with. Also if you are going to go through the cost of building these three residential floors, why not just build say 10 more? Or whatever would be enough to generate the profit that would be lost from not having those three floors occupied and retrofitting the building for the additional floors.

    I don't understand why you go on these tangents of how you would build these buildings when you have no involvement said project. Talking about the height, building purpose, or design to some extent sure knock yourself out, but leave the actual design and execution of these projects to the professionals that are hired to do the job and those that have invested their money.

    While you think concepts like this are wild tangents, did you see Southgate Mall's expansion? There were vibration noise and all while so many people continue their mall duties. The Alberta health Atrium retrofit and office upgrades where done from all elevations on both towers while hundreds of workers were still working. How did I know? I did both jobs as part of my early stages of apprenticeship for carpentry, and witnessed the minimal interruptions. Noise and vibration were not issues.
    The other aspect of the tangent is simply for discussion, and what is wrong with that?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  91. #591

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I said
    How are you supposed to add floors to an occupied building?
    And you responded
    well that is what’s currently going on with stantec tower.
    Or are you ignoring the fact the the conversation is about adding floors to an occupied building and not about some relatively minor (in comparison) construction on the tower? Is the tower and podium fully occupied and they are only now starting to build the condos? No? Then it's not the same thing, is it?
    they’re still building the mechanical floors in case you haven’t noticed. mechanical equipment (boilers and chillers) are all swapped out of occupied buildings when the original equipment fails. roofs are redone, elevators replaced, curtainwall removed and replaced all the time in occupied buildings. it is the same, whether it’s for one floor or fifteen floors. the safety measures that need to be in place and respected are the same and the nuisance and noise concerns need to managed the same way whether you’re building above or renovating the floor below.

    as i said, you need to respond to what’s said and not what you want to have been said and if you’re not sure of the difference you should ask before assuming.
    \

    None of which is the same as adding 10 or 15 or 25 stories on top of a fully occupied building. A lot of that work that you mention can be done at night or on weekends when office buildings are mostly empty. When you're dealing with a hotel or condos, people will be right below your construction zone 24/7.

    Does this mean that you're going to building the new portion of the Brighton Block with a fully open and occupied main and second floor?

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    ^
    why don’t you read what i actually responded to you and to marcel before you throw out yet another silly set of straw man arguments simply because you need to be right?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  93. #593

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    I did read it Ken. Why don't you read what the OP asked on the matter before taking about replacing an elevator or some curtainwall? He was asking about adding additional stories on top of the building AFTER it was open and occupied.

    And you respond, paraphrasing, "Well sure, people do maintenance on buildings all the time"

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I did read it Ken. Why don't you read what the OP asked on the matter before taking about replacing an elevator or some curtainwall? He was asking about adding additional stories on top of the building AFTER it was open and occupied.

    And you respond, paraphrasing, "Well sure, people do maintenance on buildings all the time"
    no, that’s pretty poor paraphrasing of some of the in depth responses i provided that didn’t say phased construction is common but did say that it is certainly possible and sometimes advantageous and went on to point out many of the activities that would be required to do so actually happen quite regularly.

    go argue with these guys if you don’t believe me:

    http://www.ctbuh.org/LinkClick.aspx?...&tabid=749&...

    unless you want to accuse the photos and case studies and analysis to be fake news.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  95. #595

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    Then why aren't you doing it Ken, if it's so common? Obviously it's no big deal to drop 10 or 20 stories on top of a building while people are working and living in it. As a matter of fact, why didn't Stantec or the Marriott do it that way? And hay, if we drop a girder or a bucket of concrete on you, no biggie, right? It's not like that could ever happen. It would suck to be a tenant but who's worried about them?

    Crane line snaps at Kelly Ramsey Tower construction site

    Oct 22, 2015
    A crane line broke at the Kelly Ramsey Tower construction site in downtown Edmonton Thursday, sending a bucket full of concrete crashing to the ground.


    The bucket hit ground in an area fenced off from the road around 2 p.m. but no one was hurt.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...site-1.3284932

  96. #596

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    KK, he did read my original post as he understood my concept with quite clarity. He even gave an example of the expansion done in Vancouver.
    You, however, either forget what you have read or can't read. I stated in my post that the entree to the hotel must be on Rice Howard and be obstructed free on that side. I also suggested that a three floor buffer zone to be incorporated in the first phase to counter noise and vibration- if any or minimum at that point- for future tenants. Naturally, that was a very general idea base for discussion which I assume you have caught on as I see Ken having no problem articulating that point from a well qualified perspective.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  97. #597

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Then why aren't you doing it Ken, if it's so common? Obviously it's no big deal to drop 10 or 20 stories on top of a building while people are working and living in it. As a matter of fact, why didn't Stantec or the Marriott do it that way? And hay, if we drop a girder or a bucket of concrete on you, no biggie, right? It's not like that could ever happen. It would suck to be a tenant but who's worried about them?

    Crane line snaps at Kelly Ramsey Tower construction site

    Oct 22, 2015
    A crane line broke at the Kelly Ramsey Tower construction site in downtown Edmonton Thursday, sending a bucket full of concrete crashing to the ground.


    The bucket hit ground in an area fenced off from the road around 2 p.m. but no one was hurt.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...site-1.3284932
    Holy shi- ^^

    how did i not hear about that.

  98. #598

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    Apparently it's no biggie. Happens all the time. Nothing to worry about. Carry on.

  99. #599

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    My good gosh KK, you don't even process the content you expound. If side walk hoardings are considered adequate measures to safeguard falling hazards, wouldn't a concrete structure be able to protect people well below? A structure slab and columns would have much more Intended load baring than the hoardings would you not figure especially when the tower is so heavily anchored ? Neighboring towers have a higher chance as the target than people directly in the tower.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  100. #600

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Apparently it's no biggie. Happens all the time. Nothing to worry about. Carry on.
    What the hell? lol?

    Dont know what point youre trying to prove. dont care. dont want to know.

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