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Thread: Symphony Tower| Residential | 27 stories | Under Construction

  1. #101
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    I can't believe that people seriously think that a loss of view will have a noticeable effect on the value of their property. I think views are extremely overrated, anyway. You might admire the view for a few days or weeks after you first move in, but after awhile you just take it for granted anyway.

    But at as an example, my downtown condo has a rooftop patio. Only about 5 stories. Going back 3 years to 3 years in the future, roughly half a dozen towers will have been built around me, blocking probably at least 50% of my day time sunshine (let alone views). In that time, the value of my place will most likely have tripled.

    Yeah, I'm choked about it.

  2. #102
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    Yes, a view may become a worn-off novelty after a while, but it will be new to prospective buyers if you want to sell. Do not underestimate the selling feature of a condo with a great view vs. a condo unit across the hall that faces other buildings.

    Other than that, I will summarize what noodle said - if you buy a highrise condo then do your homework. If you're buying a condo and that empty lot facing you is zoned for development then count on it being developed and blocking your view sometime in the future. If it is zoned for parkland then you should have no problem.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  3. #103

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    for the record, i practice what i preach. i made sure that although i may not have a full valley view, i'm ensured a really nice downtown view with a sliver of valley to the south (enough for expressvu!) for the foreseeable future.

  4. #104
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    working in the development industry i can tell you right here and now that people very much consider views when buying and spend significantly more to get them....

    they also tend to do due diligence to see what could be built and many have looked into zoning and the such even.

    if you think views DONT matter, you need to do some due diligence.
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  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469
    I can't believe that people seriously think that a loss of view will have a noticeable effect on the value of their property. I think views are extremely overrated, anyway. You might admire the view for a few days or weeks after you first move in, but after awhile you just take it for granted anyway.

    But at as an example, my downtown condo has a rooftop patio. Only about 5 stories. Going back 3 years to 3 years in the future, roughly half a dozen towers will have been built around me, blocking probably at least 50% of my day time sunshine (let alone views). In that time, the value of my place will most likely have tripled.

    Yeah, I'm choked about it.
    Views extremely overrated? Ya, ask any caveman.

    Wait, you could be onto something… we should demand cities adjust their property assessments and remove that reeediculous disparity between a buildings lowest-to-highest floors… as views are, cough, cough… “extremely overrated” there can be no substantiation to this assessment practice and tax implication!

    Never met anyone who took any kind of unobstructed view for granted… even a downtown city view. That’s crazy talk.

    You’re also mixing economic market based valuation increases with “whatever” inherent value your view, limited or otherwise, might factor. If you truly had a fantabulous sought after view, your valuation would only increase over and above whatever economic based shifts might determine.

    By-the-by… my knowledge/experience suggests you’ll be choked for a much different reason. At some point people will choose other buildings over one (as you describe) that lies beneath the shadows of a half-dozen towers. Edmonton’s market really hasn’t experienced much of this, compared to past/present Vancouver… or the significant new developments within Seattle. But at some point…

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    if you think views DONT matter, you need to do some due diligence.
    I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying that views don't matter in terms of property value. But rather that a loss or obstruction of a pre-existing view doesn't necessarily equate to a loss in value of the property. It's of course very dependent on what it is that is blocking the view. And in my specific case, the positive aspects of the developments blocking/shadowing my property far outweigh the negatives. Those developments (Icon, Ironwood, and to a much much lesser extent Century, hey it's better than a parking lot) will have a significant positive effect on the value of my property. The same could potentially be said for the Wasnea project for those around it.

    Loss of view doesn't automatically equate to loss of property value, as some here are trying to claim.

    And unfortunately I mixed up my own personal opinion with that. While a view is a bonus to me, it doesn't factor in to my valuation of a property nearly as much as it would for most.

    As far as Jeff goes, I have no interest in responding to your overly antagonistic posts. Perhaps that stuff flies on other message boards, but in my little experience it does not here.

  7. #107
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    Losing a view may not necessarily affect your property value, but depending on what your view is like in the first place, it does become a harder place to sell. If your view is just at other neighboring buildings then one more likely won't make much of a difference, but it may increase if the new building is a revitalizer for your area. If you have an unobstructed view of the river valley and the city's skyline (or both, such as the highrises on Saskatchewan Drive) then it's a easy selling feature that will disappear once it is obstructed by another building.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  8. #108

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    I never got bored of having a downtown view - I miss it - it had a lot of value to me, and I am sure views have value to others. I found Edmonton's downtown view was great during electrical storms in particular. Out of interest - if you ever live in a port city, it is IMO more fun to have a view of an active port, than of a bit of nature. It is great to watch all the changes, as different ships visit in - dynamic views are fun - and ports are about as dynamic as you can get. I like machines though.

    In saying that, views are secondary to location, location, location. Everything is secondary to location at the end of the day. Good locations almost always go up in value faster, with or without a view or a granite counter top.

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    my gf and i walked our pup around the leg today around noon, oh and i cannot believe that it was basically desolate with such a beautiful day out, but needless to say... i thought specifically about that building there and i just wonder how well it will look there at 29 storeys.

    if this tower is to go ahead, it simply better be one of the most well done towers we have seen thus far for it really has a huge influence on the area when walking north up 107st from the grounds.
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  10. #110

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    I actually was in the neighborhood as well today and even took some pics of the site for a sort of personal before and after. It's actually a fairly large site, and after seeing the spot in person, I don't think the proposal does the area justice. The tower maybe, but the pedestal isn't the right way to go.


    And I was surprised how dead it was as well, the partner and I were trying to find people to take candid winter pics of for her company's internal photo contest.

  11. #111

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    site shots from today:



  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469
    I can't believe that people seriously think that a loss of view will have a noticeable effect on the value of their property. I think views are extremely overrated, anyway. You might admire the view for a few days or weeks after you first move in, but after awhile you just take it for granted anyway.

    But at as an example, my downtown condo has a rooftop patio. Only about 5 stories. Going back 3 years to 3 years in the future, roughly half a dozen towers will have been built around me, blocking probably at least 50% of my day time sunshine (let alone views). In that time, the value of my place will most likely have tripled.

    Yeah, I'm choked about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff
    Views extremely overrated? Ya, ask any caveman.

    Wait, you could be onto something… we should demand cities adjust their property assessments and remove that reeediculous disparity between a buildings lowest-to-highest floors… as views are, cough, cough… “extremely overrated” there can be no substantiation to this assessment practice and tax implication!

    Never met anyone who took any kind of unobstructed view for granted… even a downtown city view. That’s crazy talk.

    You’re also mixing economic market based valuation increases with “whatever” inherent value your view, limited or otherwise, might factor. If you truly had a fantabulous sought after view, your valuation would only increase over and above whatever economic based shifts might determine.

    By-the-by… my knowledge/experience suggests you’ll be choked for a much different reason. At some point people will choose other buildings over one (as you describe) that lies beneath the shadows of a half-dozen towers. Edmonton’s market really hasn’t experienced much of this, compared to past/present Vancouver… or the significant new developments within Seattle. But at some point…
    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469
    As far as Jeff goes, I have no interest in responding to your overly antagonistic posts. Perhaps that stuff flies on other message boards, but in my little experience it does not here.
    no interest in responding, but

    you made a rather bold series of statements directly following up on, and contrary to, those of mine. I didn't/don't agree with your bold series of statements, regardless of your "I wasn't clear" back-peddle (attempt). If something as innocuous as this irks you.....

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff
    no interest in responding, but

    ...
    if true then you could have stopped before the "but" Jeff (or even before responding).
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    if this tower is to go ahead, it simply better be one of the most well done towers we have seen thus far for it really has a huge influence on the area when walking north up 107st from the grounds.
    From the legislature you should only see the tower of The Wasnea (The podium is blocked by the historic buildings).



    At 29 stories it will be a very prominent site from the ledge.

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    kcantor... I was interested in responding (and did) - it was that other guy who said "I have no interest in responding" (but did).

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    Quote Originally Posted by enek
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    if this tower is to go ahead, it simply better be one of the most well done towers we have seen thus far for it really has a huge influence on the area when walking north up 107st from the grounds.
    From the legislature you should only see the tower of The Wasnea (The podium is blocked by the historic buildings).



    At 29 stories it will be a very prominent site from the ledge.

    to have to say "you would only see some as the bad parts are being blocked" is something Edmonton needs to run away from. We have been doing far too much of this...and it is partially responsible for our "north wall" epidemic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff
    kcantor... I was interested in responding (and did) - it was that other guy who said "I have no interest in responding" (but did).
    point taken - although i would have to concur with "that other guy" that your posts can indeed be overly antagonistic (and some of mine perhaps condescending although unintentional) and the constant addition of " " does nothing to overcome that.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    to have to say "you would only see some as the bad parts are being blocked" is something Edmonton needs to run away from. We have been doing far too much of this...and it is partially responsible for our "north wall" epidemic.
    The north wall hopefully should resolve if they get that new stadium downtown. That would cause a lot of spawl away from the Epcore/Stationlands wall that's going up.

    But we only really care about the city looking good from the south.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by enek
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    to have to say "you would only see some as the bad parts are being blocked" is something Edmonton needs to run away from. We have been doing far too much of this...and it is partially responsible for our "north wall" epidemic.
    The north wall hopefully should resolve if they get that new stadium downtown. That would cause a lot of spawl away from the Epcore/Stationlands wall that's going up.

    But we only really care about the city looking good from the south.
    I believe Ian is referring to the habit of certain local architects (*cough* BZKA *cough*) to put 100% of their efforts on 75% of the outside of the building, leaving the north face of the building lacking in care, attention, detail and design.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle
    Quote Originally Posted by enek
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    to have to say "you would only see some as the bad parts are being blocked" is something Edmonton needs to run away from. We have been doing far too much of this...and it is partially responsible for our "north wall" epidemic.
    The north wall hopefully should resolve if they get that new stadium downtown. That would cause a lot of spawl away from the Epcore/Stationlands wall that's going up.

    But we only really care about the city looking good from the south.
    I believe Ian is referring to the habit of certain local architects (*cough* BZKA *cough*) to put 100% of their efforts on 75% of the outside of the building, leaving the north face of the building lacking in care, attention, detail and design.
    Thanks for the clarification. In this particular project I think most of the effort should be on the south face.

  21. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by enek
    Thanks for the clarification. In this particular project I think most of the effort should be on the south face.
    As this is a BZKA tower, the smart money is on you getting your wish in spades. As this is significantly larger than anything in the area, I'd hope significant effort goes towards the north wall. It will be the visible side to all of the current residences in the area. The south wall sells the units to their buyers, the north wall sells the building to the area.

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    indeed i meant as explained ^.


    north views are sadly overlooked in Edmonton...and while it might not be ocean or river valley, it can be quite expansive and sometimes a very nice city view.

    but again...this market doesnt know better.
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    What happened to this proposal? Despite the negative banter back and forth amongst the kids, this seemed like a widely popular idea.

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    Maybe Allen Wasnea and Co got distracted, they recently held a public pre-consultation meeting in the last couple of shopping days before Christmas for a 42 storey condo (Park Royal) on three lots at the SE corner of 106 St & 99 Ave. Then early this week I got a rezoning notice for the Wasnea Tower (AKA Raintree) site at 106 St and 97 Ave that you speak of. The proponent wishes to add 2 more uses to their existing DC1: limited restaurants and specialty food services.

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    Very nice, thanks for the heads up!

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    When I look at these two shots I really like how not only does the building at many more residents to this area but I really like it creates a space that will encourage people to walk through this area. Now with this space as it is shown a nice restaurant could work in this area, especially if they had a patio.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Would love to see a fountain and a light in the meeting area

  28. #128

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    [unconstructive comment]
    Feel sorry for the guy that will have to shovel the walks.
    [/unconstructive comment]

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    Just put radiant heating in and no shoveling.
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    we could get the heat from the power plant...... carbon capture credits .........
    Nah forget it the plants closed

  31. #131

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    Is it red stucco, or red brick? If it must be stucco, red can look pretty good (hope its not brown / beige though).

  32. #132
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    so is this building actually raintree? if so can we change the title of the thread please.

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    Rather classy and welcoming looking I'd say! .... something we could use much more of in this city!

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    Looks good, lets hope something like that gets built

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    So I wonder how they are going to build a fountain on someone elses property

  36. #136
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    ^ The developer actually owns those two existing buildings.
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  37. #137
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    As I was driving past the site tonight I had a quick glance at it and it would be wonderful if that house could be converted to a restaurant.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    so is this building actually raintree? if so can we change the title of the thread please.
    I believe that was a previously attempted tower here of completely different design that was officially axed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    As I was driving past the site tonight I had a quick glance at it and it would be wonderful if that house could be converted to a restaurant.
    The house is currently occupied by the engineering firm that Allen Wasnea operates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    so is this building actually raintree? if so can we change the title of the thread please.
    I believe that was a previously attempted tower here of completely different design that was officially axed.
    bingo.

    axed due to FAR and parking
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    Floor
    (to) Area
    Ratio

    your lot is 10 x 10 = 100

    you build 3 floors to lot line = 3 x 100 =300

    300/100

    FAR = 3
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  43. #143
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    do anyone ever heard of this tower being approved or what?? I like this tower on this lot and looks very impressive but if not , I will be very disappointed with city planning for rejecting this tower and I do not want anything less than 20 and I prefer 25 or more in downtown core

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    ^dude... either go do some research or stop what you are doing.

    This tower is approved, likely will go ahead in the next 10 yrs, and is over 20-25 floors so you can be happy now.
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    thanks for the bump of the thread... I forgot about this project. Would love to see it go ahead as Federal building renos are winding down. I think that timing would be fairly good, unless, of course, the market changes.

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    wasana tower got approved or not ?? because I have never heard of any news lately
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    ^Yes, it was approved.

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    Some new renderings of the project.



    Last edited by ScottieA; 05-07-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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    purdy cre - ate - ive for an eng-gan-ear
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    I like the design, except I think it's a little too fat (if that makes sense) and could be more slender.
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    Wow that's... thick. I like all the glass, but what is our fascination with a big stucco wall of punch windows? It's like the architectural version of truck balls.
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    Not new... those drawings have been around forever

    I'd put the chances of this one ever seeing the light of day somewhere between slim and none
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    ^^its odd, why not complete the glass look? If they did, this would look great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Not new... those drawings have been around forever

    I'd put the chances of this one ever seeing the light of day somewhere between slim and none
    I know that they're not new. They've just never been posted in this thread.
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    sooo are they building this anytime soon?

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    Looks like it...

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    ^^ have this tower have been approved yet ?? if does, it is only 2 blocks from Marc Restaurant, so I can go down there to take a pic of month by month under construction.
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    Yes it has been.
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    I love the brick condo looking building in between the tower and the old house, reminds me of habitat in montreal.. t.his looks like s great project it will gives great alternative
    meeting point other than the ledge and rossdale... good little condo district. I wanna see the new tower built aswell, but I hope the fountain area stays like it is in the rendering

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    this is a sick building

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    I believe this project is also under the name of "Raintree". I found some more renderings on the Brinsmeak Kennedy Architecture website: http://www.bkarchitecture.com/projec...ategoryIndex=8

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    Odd.. It was raintree, then wasnea...now reverting back?
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    Glad to see possible movement on this one... To those that desire a more current skyline from the south angle, here we go!

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    I'm surprised to see news regarding this one. I was certain it belonged I am that long list of dead or stale projects.
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    Wonder, will this tower built this year ? That is a big question mark??
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    ^this year or next. With sales starting and in a decent location I don't imagine they'll have too much trouble with sales depending on price.

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    The second one is the one they proposed back in '04, right?
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  69. #169
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    There abouts yes.
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    Something to that degree from what I recall. Thank God it didn't come to fruition!

  71. #171
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    ^ Yes, the latest iteration is much more preferable to it:

    Last edited by ScottieA; 19-02-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^i prefer the above to this thing...we have lots of this similar crap all over the city.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OilTastic/BigCityDude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^i prefer the above to this thing...we have lots of this similar crap all over the city.
    there is somewhat similar to that building just down the street
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    I just saw in yesterday's #Yegdt Notes for DECL that they mentioned that this is 18 storeys. Is that the old height of what was originally planned, or did they reduce the height of this project?

    http://www.decl.org/2013/02/21/yegdt...ruary-21-2013/
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottieA View Post
    I just saw in yesterday's #Yegdt Notes for DECL that they mentioned that this is 18 storeys. Is that the old height of what was originally planned, or did they reduce the height of this project?

    http://www.decl.org/2013/02/21/yegdt...ruary-21-2013/
    I believe it is 29.... will let the writer know to correct.
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  76. #176
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    Okay good, was a little concerned if this was cut down by that much.
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    i wouldnt mind this being under construction, when is the sales centre supposed to open?

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    Anyone on the "inside" have any information about this one?

  79. #179
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    Going to sales late spring.
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    They are going to start selling before they have even started building?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    They are going to start selling before they have even started building?
    That is very typical, if not the norm.
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    sales always has to come first but if sales is successful , can start building sooner than that.


    look at Ultima , it was a very hot sell and now they start digging deeper into the ground !!
    Last edited by jagators63; 31-03-2013 at 10:10 AM.
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    Meridian Plaza was built first without much pre-sale work, but it's very rare.

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    I just would not be able to take a project seriously unless it was under construction (aurora)

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    Pearl and Skyline didnt have any presales before they started...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    I just would not be able to take a project seriously unless it was under construction (aurora)
    Seriously review par for the course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Pearl and Skyline didnt have any presales before they started...
    I'd argue that in Edmonton, with our particularly fickle buyers (which is not necessarily a bad thing) projects sell much better if they are u/c when sales start (or at least moving forward with a construction timeline)

    I had a meeting with a developer a few weeks ago who indicated that at the moment, lenders are looking for around 75% pre-sales before they'll finance a project. Those developers who've got deep pockets have a definite advantage in our market
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  88. #188
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    ^in any market.
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    ^ It matters much less in a higly speculative market. Which Edmonton is not.
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    ^^^ interesting !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Meridian Plaza was built first without much pre-sale work, but it's very rare.
    Went and saw a unit at Meridian for kicks a while back. It seemed way overpriced for what it was, especially given it has a limited view. Does anyone know if its sold very well?

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    ^they only have a few units left I believe, maybe 85% sold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^they only have a few units left I believe, maybe 85% sold.
    More than that. Only a couple units remaining on lower floors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Pearl and Skyline didnt have any presales before they started...
    I'd argue that in Edmonton, with our particularly fickle buyers (which is not necessarily a bad thing) projects sell much better if they are u/c when sales start (or at least moving forward with a construction timeline)

    I had a meeting with a developer a few weeks ago who indicated that at the moment, lenders are looking for around 75% pre-sales before they'll finance a project. Those developers who've got deep pockets have a definite advantage in our market
    If you're looking at securing financing from one of the big banks (TD, CIBC, etc), then yes, they'll require 75% pre-sales. There are many other financing options developers can choose from (Canada ICI, Trez Capital, etc). These options will cost you more, but not by a significant amount.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Meridian Plaza was built first without much pre-sale work, but it's very rare.
    Went and saw a unit at Meridian for kicks a while back. It seemed way overpriced for what it was, especially given it has a limited view. Does anyone know if its sold very well?
    As of Q4-2012 - 98 sold, 2 future releases (I assume penthouses that they aren't marketing at this time) and 11 unsold.

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    Something tells me this thing will be breaking ground before too long

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    The project sounds like it's pretty solid, and yes they're starting marketing pretty soon. I would guess a late summer or fall start on the excavation, so they can start coming out of the ground next spring and do most of the structure when the weather is decent.

    As far as construction starting before/after sales, that's dependent on the developer mostly. There's pros and cons for both. Some like Regency have started numerous projects without selling suites. Others don't have deep enough pockets and need enough pre-sales to get their financing, or have to hit certain benchmarks in sales to get further funding to continue the project etc.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 03-04-2013 at 06:10 PM.

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    That quick on start-up? Good to hear. This would definitely change the river-valley shots of DT Edmonton's skyline for the better.
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    I could be wrong, the project is sales dependent so that will play a big part of course.

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    I am looking forward to some glass on our south hill skyline.
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