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Thread: divided highway to the coast

  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Not related really to the thread, but I love the highway between Kamloops and Whistler, and all the way up to West Vancouver. One of the most beautiful drives in the world, I would rank it up there with the icefield parkway, maybe even above it. The changes from near desert in the interior to lush forests of the coastal mountain range, deep canyons, widing highways... if you haven't been, its a must! Finish the drive off with a ferry ride from horseshoe bay to Nainamo and then drive up to Tofino.... Worlds best! Hwy 99 - Sea to Sky Highway rules!!
    Yes indeed, I take 99 to Whistler at least twice a year. The first time it terrified me: now I cannot get enough of it.

    The best feature is the very low proportion of RV's and 18 wheelers

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    I know this is a little out of this forum's range but Edmonton is suffering because of a key missing infrastructure link. It would sure be nice if B.C. twinned hwy 5 north of Kamloops to the Alberta border and if we finished hwy 16 to meet it. I realize it is a monumental project but so was the Coquihalla.
    A 4 lane highway to the coast would allow more trucks to utilize the lower grades of the Yellowhead Pass and would greatly improve our competetive situation.
    I was thinking the Alberta Government could provide low rate or interest free loans to B.C. to spur this on.
    Any guesses as to how receptive the Calgary provincial government would be to this idea?
    I figure self-driving cars have the potential to dramatically cut the need for roadway infrastructure.

    So, very soon expect decision makers to become very resistant to spending any money on expansion. It will be more like the railroads abandoning track to save on maintenance as they improved rail 'efficiency'.
    Last edited by KC; 03-08-2015 at 08:38 AM.

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    Speaking of alternative routes to Vancouver, has anyone ever taken the Crowsnest Highway there? I have only been on the stretch from Keremeos (south of Penticton) to Hope.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Speaking of alternative routes to Vancouver, has anyone ever taken the Crowsnest Highway there? I have only been on the stretch from Keremeos (south of Penticton) to Hope.
    I have taken Highway 3 from the Okanagan back to Alberta a few times (from Osoyoos, basically right up to the stretch you have been on, oddly). It is scenic, of course, but it is a much, much longer route, at least 4 more hours of drive time, and with quite a few miserable grades.
    If you have a few days to make the trip, and want to do some camping on the way, or want to spend some time in a few of the cool towns on the route, it is worth doing once or twice. As a direct route, there are no advantages though, and definitely not recommended in the winter.

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    Crowsnest though can be useful when you're going to Spokane or Seattle, it is the lowest pass north of New Mexico, so it tends to be open when the Trans-Canada is closed.

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    Pretty nice scenery along that route too.

  7. #207

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    ^Crowsnest is beautiful scenary, both routes are nice, its good to do a "round trip" doing both. Crowsnest is a longer drive, but worth it. I took my kids last year on the underground mine tour, I'd recommend it, quite amazing how cold it is in a mine. Franks slide presentation center is a terrific place to stop as well, and then there is also head smashed in buffalo jump.

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    BC announced Saturday, they will be twinning 2.5 km by the Illecillewaet Brake Check Station east of Revelstoke.

    Government of Canada and B.C. government supports the upgrade and expansion of Highway 1 near Revelstoke.
    https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2015TRAN0096-001237

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Speaking of alternative routes to Vancouver, has anyone ever taken the Crowsnest Highway there? I have only been on the stretch from Keremeos (south of Penticton) to Hope.
    I've taken that route back from Vancouver a couple of years back. Its a long but beautiful route. Plus you need to stop in Rossland while go through.

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    Thanks guys, I'm thinking that one of these days I'll drive the Crowsnest from Lethbridge to Vancouver. According to Googles Maps that will take 14 hrs, barring any pit stops, construction delays and traffic through small towns. So maybe a mid-point stopover in Osoyoos or thereabouts.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I've gone the Crowsnest a lot. A great route to take your time on. So many interesting towns and places to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    I know this is a little out of this forum's range but Edmonton is suffering because of a key missing infrastructure link. It would sure be nice if B.C. twinned hwy 5 north of Kamloops to the Alberta border and if we finished hwy 16 to meet it. I realize it is a monumental project but so was the Coquihalla.
    A 4 lane highway to the coast would allow more trucks to utilize the lower grades of the Yellowhead Pass and would greatly improve our competetive situation.
    I was thinking the Alberta Government could provide low rate or interest free loans to B.C. to spur this on.
    Any guesses as to how receptive the Calgary provincial government would be to this idea?
    I figure self-driving cars have the potential to dramatically cut the need for roadway infrastructure.

    So, very soon expect decision makers to become very resistant to spending any money on expansion. It will be more like the railroads abandoning track to save on maintenance as they improved rail 'efficiency'.
    I could NEVER trust technology as you do. Self driving cars through twisting mountain roads with plenty of cliffs and 18 wheelers. That's insane.

  13. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    I know this is a little out of this forum's range but Edmonton is suffering because of a key missing infrastructure link. It would sure be nice if B.C. twinned hwy 5 north of Kamloops to the Alberta border and if we finished hwy 16 to meet it. I realize it is a monumental project but so was the Coquihalla.
    A 4 lane highway to the coast would allow more trucks to utilize the lower grades of the Yellowhead Pass and would greatly improve our competetive situation.
    I was thinking the Alberta Government could provide low rate or interest free loans to B.C. to spur this on.
    Any guesses as to how receptive the Calgary provincial government would be to this idea?
    I figure self-driving cars have the potential to dramatically cut the need for roadway infrastructure.

    So, very soon expect decision makers to become very resistant to spending any money on expansion. It will be more like the railroads abandoning track to save on maintenance as they improved rail 'efficiency'.
    I could NEVER trust technology as you do. Self driving cars through twisting mountain roads with plenty of cliffs and 18 wheelers. That's insane.
    People are less consistent than 'technology'. Controlled intersections are sometimes deemed a necessity because of human inconsistency.

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    Highway 99: My brother used to call it "intense". I quite liked it, but I haven't been that way for years (no more family in Squamish). If you do take 99, you can also take highway 24 west from Little Fort to highway 97 instead of going through Kamloops. Same distance but prettier.

    Highway 3: The eastern sections are pretty, the central portion (Grand Forks to Princeton) is mostly desert and quite brown and very hot by mid-summer even in a non-drought year. It has a lot of hill climbs and tacks north and south like a sailboat heading into the wind, largely because the best routing around that latitude would have crossed into the USA a few times.

    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    BC announced Saturday, they will be twinning 2.5 km by the Illecillewaet Brake Check Station east of Revelstoke.

    Government of Canada and B.C. government supports the upgrade and expansion of Highway 1 near Revelstoke.
    https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2015TRAN0096-001237
    Good to hear. With the Kickinghorse canyon largely completed, the section between the summit of Rogers pass and Malakwa needs some attention.
    Last edited by Titanium48; 05-08-2015 at 07:58 PM.

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    Whoohoo, an entire 2.5 km!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    A rather important 2.5 km in an area where the snow doesn't actually melt completely at any point in the year, and which is built on solid rock.

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    2.5 km would help nicely on

    50th Street from Beaumont to the city
    Highway 15 from Fort Saskatchewan to the city
    Ray Gibbon Drive

    The last bit of Kicking Horse Pass is unfortunately the most expensive, it will require bridges, 2 snowsheds, a tunnel too (with additional showshed each side of the tunnel).
    https://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghors...al-Yoho_Br.pdf

    In the end this will be probably close to a billion dollars. You can twin a lot of the Trans-Canada elsewhere for that sort of money.

    What does surprise me is why BC doesn't twin the section from Golden to the Columbia River, fairly flat, mostly sand/clay mix very little blasting, very little property impact, so it would be fairly easy and cheap.

    As for between Roger's Pass and Malakwa they are planning on twinning near North Fork and around Crazy Creek.
    http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/highwayproje...ork/index.html

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    What does surprise me is why BC doesn't twin the section from Golden to the Columbia River, fairly flat, mostly sand/clay mix very little blasting, very little property impact, so it would be fairly easy and cheap.
    It wouldn't surprise me if it had something to do with one of the many aboriginal groups in BC, there are no treaties in BC with various tribes claiming the same land, so its all a bit of a mess anytime you do infrastructure.

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    Most of BC is pretty much covered by claims, in this case it is the Ktunaxa Kinbasket tribal council claim
    http://www.bctreaty.net/nations/ktunaxa.php

    Not sure what will finally be agreed upon, but the claim is for pretty much everything from SE BC from Mica Dam down to Trail
    http://www.bctreaty.net/nations/soi_...et_SOI_Map.pdf

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    Just throw some money at them, seems to work. Could be said of anyone, I would sell my soul for the right offer.

  21. #221

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    ^oddly, some tribes are more concerned about preserving traditional lifestyles / environment, than they are about money.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    2.5 km would help nicely on

    50th Street from Beaumont to the city
    Highway 15 from Fort Saskatchewan to the city
    Ray Gibbon Drive


    The last bit of Kicking Horse Pass is unfortunately the most expensive, it will require bridges, 2 snowsheds, a tunnel too (with additional showshed each side of the tunnel).
    https://www.th.gov.bc.ca/kickinghors...al-Yoho_Br.pdf

    In the end this will be probably close to a billion dollars. You can twin a lot of the Trans-Canada elsewhere for that sort of money.

    What does surprise me is why BC doesn't twin the section from Golden to the Columbia River, fairly flat, mostly sand/clay mix very little blasting, very little property impact, so it would be fairly easy and cheap.

    As for between Roger's Pass and Malakwa they are planning on twinning near North Fork and around Crazy Creek.
    http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/highwayproje...ork/index.html
    Bolded: Roads that are in the City of Edmonton that mainly benefit the suburb at the other end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    What does surprise me is why BC doesn't twin the section from Golden to the Columbia River, fairly flat, mostly sand/clay mix very little blasting, very little property impact, so it would be fairly easy and cheap.
    Maybe the BC government is simply making the major bottlenecks on Hwy 1 the higher priority, such as the Kicking Horse Canyon and the segments between Revelstoke and Glacier. When I've driven the TCH I find the stretch between Golden and the Columbia River crossing to be not bad traffic-wise and has good sightlines for passing slower vehicles. There's also the twinning work east of Kamloops, but that's just extending the divided highway from Horseshoe Bay.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I think the priorities should be around the highway intersections, and other unfinished bridges. There's also some treacherous roadway around the Shuswap.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Oh I've been stuck behind campers moving at 60 km/h for north of Golden, around Sicamous and east Salmon Arm. Some of the bad spots near the Shuswap are extemely narrow with rock cliffs and would be very expensive to build

    Perhaps a policy should be build passing lane or twinned every 10 miles in 1 or 2 years, then every 5 miles in 3-4 years, then twinned in 10 or so years.

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    I think another big cost will be property acquisition. There's farms, ranches, B&Bs, hotels, campgrounds, tourist stops such as Enchanted Forest, Rogers Pass and Three Valley Gap. There's urban property next to two lane stretches in towns such as Sicamous. Then there several river and rail bridges, including both Columbia River crossings.

    It's obviously going to take at least 3 more decades to see a fully twinned TCH in BC.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Not much you can do around Three Valley Gap, I'd assume New Jersey Median near the hotel itself, just west you have the cliffs and lake, cheapest is fill in the part of the lake that probably won't happen, probably a retaining wall will be built to avoid touching the lake. But with the avalanche paths snowsheds might have to be built. This will probably be the 2nd most expensive BC portion of the Trans-Canada (remaining portion of Kicking Horse is probably the most expensive, 3rd most is the around the cliffs of Shuswap Lake).
    https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.93005...8i6656!6m1!1e1

    I also wonder when they are going to consider bypassing Salmon Arm, it is a pain to drive through.

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    The tough thing about B. C. highway construction is that you have to blast in many places.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    If all else fails they could do the Coquihalla method and build alternative routes where needed and feasible, then put a toll on it for 20 years.

    But there's probably no real feasible alternatives save for Turtle Valley northwest of Salmon Arm. There's also the Ashton Creek/Mabel Lake area between Enderby and Three Valley Gap, but it would likely only serve best as a bypass to the Okanagan. As for between Revelstoke and Golden - well, the current Hwy 1 is already a reroute from the original road!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^ With a 97 to 97A connector north of Armstrong, the Three Valley to Enderby route could be part of a viable bypass of the Shuswap lake area. Upgrading the road from Westwold to Merritt would make it an actual shortcut to the coast - at least for people entering BC on highway 1. For us in Edmonton, anywhere west of Salmon Arm is best accessed via the Yellowhead highways instead.

  31. #231
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    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/projects/west.aspx

    A functional planning study has been undertaken for Highway 16 Twinning from west of Highway 40 to the east gate of Jasper Park. Department is planning to expand this portion of Highway 16 from 2-lane to 4-lane (2 lanes each way) facilities with interchanges to provide grade separated access in the longer term. Planning is in progress. Construction is not included in the department three-year program.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    The executive summary reveals they plan nothing until 2018 at the very earliest, some of the interchanges are planned for 2040-2058. Then you factor in the NDP priorities, my guess is nothing will happen in the next 4 years except fixing potholes and the minimum maintenance. We'll know more once they release their budget in the fall.

    The stage 1 plans (twinned) are here;
    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...stage1_OH2.pdf

    The ultimate state (freeway) are here;
    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...m-Park_OH2.pdf
    Last edited by sundance; 24-08-2015 at 02:12 PM.

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    BC is proposing a fixed link to Powell River and the Sunshine Coast, my guess is it will never happen, but maybe. Afterwards its possible to bridge to the island near Campbell River.
    https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2015TRAN0123-001542

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    A fixed link to Vancouver Island from Powell River would require 4 major bridges, with the Quadra island - Vancouver Island connection being the shortest of them, so I don't see that happening even if the Powell River road is built. Just the Powell River road to the existing ferry to Comox would still significantly improve access to the north of Vancouver Island from the interior (and thus Alberta) though.

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    BC did a few studies in the 1980s about a fixed link to Vancouver Island, technically it's possible (even in spite of earthquakes) but economically it isn't
    http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications...fixed_link.htm

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    ^ The Powell River - Campbell River route would certainly be much easier and cheaper than bridging the Georgia Strait further south, but it would also be a huge detour for Vancouver - Victoria traffic and would thus have a much smaller user base, leading to the same economic problem.

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    ^ But then you'd also need two additional fixed links to replace the Horseshoe Bay: Langdale and Earls Cove: Saltery Bay ferries, in order to be able to get to Powell River in the first place.

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    ^ See sundance's post 233.

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    Keep dreaming folks. fascinating thoughts but not going to happen in our lifetime.

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    Since this is the de facto BC highway discussion thread

    Okanagan Lake Second Crossing project
    http://engage.gov.bc.ca/okanagansecondcrossing/

    At this stage, seems to be more of a Hwy 97 planning study than about anything about a 2nd bridge crossing. Misleading project name, but have to figure that's the ultimate goal.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I'm guessing they will decide to keep the ferries and build no bridges. But it might happen. Not sure how they would build a bridge across Jervis Inlet though, it is VERY deep (2400'), perhaps a floating bridge.
    ---
    Sunshine Coast highway link study underway
    https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2016TRAN0014-000138
    Last edited by sundance; 04-02-2016 at 11:31 AM.

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    ^ The Jervis Inlet crossing isn't much wider than Okanagan Lake, but a floating bridge on the ocean would be in much more challenging conditions - water levels that go up and down twice a day instead of twice a year with associated currents and corrosive saltwater. A suspension bridge could span the ~2 km gap with supports built in shallow water, but would likely cost far too much. Going around the inlet to connect Powell River to Squamish is also a possibility.

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    Washington state does have one salt water floating bridge the Hood Canal Bridge, but a suspension bridge would probably be cheaper.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hood_Canal_Bridge

    Norway has been talking about possibly a floating tunnel under the surface deep enough that it wouldn't be a boating hazard. Again not sure if anything will get built.
    Last edited by sundance; 04-02-2016 at 04:50 PM.

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    Adding 2km of passing lanes plus pullout near McLure and 2.7km of passing lanes near Darfield
    https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2016TRAN0084-000684

    Now if they could remove that traffic circle in Clearwater and build an interchange (grumble, grumble)

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    Good, that section always gets congested on my drive.

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    ^^ I have no issues with that traffic circle in fact I think it is a brilliant solution for that intersection.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    ^ Except that it is a wacky layout. Instead of a standard two lane layout (like we have here in Edmonton) or a single lane layout with right turn bypasses (like the Sylvan Lake roundabout), there is a weird lane and a half design that requires you to keep right to go straight and stay on highway 5.

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    A simple diamond interchange would work best, plus they need to add some bike paths and such so that there is less pedestrian and bike traffic near the road. But improvements through Barriere are probably needed more and should be a higher priority.

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    BC Transportation and Infrastructure held public meetings on May 24th about twinning just west of Salmon Arm, information can be found here;
    http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/tr...c-consultation
    Last edited by sundance; 03-06-2016 at 02:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Adding 2km of passing lanes plus pullout near McLure and 2.7km of passing lanes near Darfield
    https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2016TRAN0084-000684

    Now if they could remove that traffic circle in Clearwater and build an interchange (grumble, grumble)
    http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/roundabouts/clearwater.html

    Roundabout working for Clearwater, another planned for Sicamous

    "We now have people who were very strongly opposed to it come in and say it was the best thing to ever happen because it works really slick,” said Groulx.

    Groulx says Clearwater’s double-laned roundabout was engineered to handle “extraordinary loads” – including the tour buses and tractor-trailer traffic that frequently turn off for the park, or carry on north for the oil patch.

    “One of the key things… it’s a continuous flow,” said Groulx, noting the integrated crosswalks are more safe than those that existed prior."
    http://www.eaglevalleynews.com/news/...ml?mobile=true

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    It is a good spot for a roundabout - the highway through the town is a 60 km/h zone anyways. It is just weird not to use the left lane when you want the second exit. The signage indicating that taking the left lane will force you to turn left should probably be enhanced a bit to avoid confusion from the non-standard layout.

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    So from Kelowna, what is the consensus for most scenic route into Vancouver...and does said route add significantly to the travel?

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    My take my time scenic fruit picking wine tasting sun soaking and beach route is Peachland, Summerland, Penticton, Okanagan Falls, Oliver, Osoyoos, Keremeos, Hedley, Princton, Manning Provincial Park to Hope. Went twice last summer and spent a nice time in Vancouver beginning of July then went Banff, Radium, Cranbrook, Creston, Trail, Osoyoos, Kelowna, Vernon, Kamloops, Jasper, and back end of August, beginning of Sept. Love BC. Only if you have lots of time for these routes. Next time I want to go 99 through Whistler, havn't went that way yet. Hoping to go in July.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 05-06-2016 at 07:37 PM.

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    ^^Depends what you consider scenic. Heading south from Kelowna to Osoyoos will take you through the semi-desert of the south Okanagan. It is kind of like southern Alberta with hills - brown for most of the year except where irrigated. It is also about 120 km longer than the shortest route via 97C and 5 and much slower with towns and traffic. On the other hand, the fruit tends to get cheaper as you go south and there are plenty of wineries if that is your thing. When you head out of fruit country you continue through the desert for a while to Princeton, then head into Manning Park where the scenery gradually transitions to lush coastal forest.

    97C and the coquihalla will take you through a variety of scenery quickly - up onto the forested plateau at 1600 m, down into the desert in Merritt, back up and then down the much greener, wetter side into Hope. Fastest, but nothing to stop at along the way and probably not a good choice if you have a heavy trailer - you climb over 1000 m at a constant 6%.

    Heading south then taking highway 3A from Kaleden to Keremeos is a compromise route - 60 km shorter than going through Osoyoos (which will 45 minutes to an hour), but you still get a taste of fruit and wine country before going through Manning Park.

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    A diamond interchange would be better in Sicamous than a traffic circle.

    But Salmon Arm really needed a bypass 20 years ago, and of course more so now. I'd really like to see BC's long term plan, while they have added an interchange in Salmon Arm I can't imagine they'd build a freeway right smack dab through the middle of town.

    This is the Trans-Canada Highway meant to take stuff from sea to sea not some small secondary highway.

  56. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    A diamond interchange would be better in Sicamous than a traffic circle.

    But Salmon Arm really needed a bypass 20 years ago, and of course more so now. I'd really like to see BC's long term plan, while they have added an interchange in Salmon Arm I can't imagine they'd build a freeway right smack dab through the middle of town.

    This is the Trans-Canada Highway meant to take stuff from sea to sea not some small secondary highway.
    Ocean to ocean. Rail can handle far more goods and create far less pollution in doing so.

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    True, however we do not have a passenger rail system in western Canada, under the current freight first policies, I doubt we'll ever have one. Under the current model if you were to have an effective passenger or commuter rail system you'd pretty much need to lay new track.

  58. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    True, however we do not have a passenger rail system in western Canada, under the current freight first policies, I doubt we'll ever have one. Under the current model if you were to have an effective passenger or commuter rail system you'd pretty much need to lay new track.
    Maybe that should the topic of this thread. BC needs to become more environmentally friendly. Here in Alberta we build straight, flat efficient roads. There they build those winding, twisting, hill climbing roads that I imagine cause far more pollution on any A to B distance than our designs do.


    "This tool can be used to find the distance between two named points on a map. You can decide which two points to measure and then find out the distance between them as the crow flies and distance when driving. Type in the names of the places below and click the Show button.

    https://www.freemaptools.com/how-far-is-it-between.htm
    As the crow flies calculator
    http://tjpeiffer.com/crowflies.html

    Edmonton to Jasper vs Jasper to Kamloops.
    195 miles vs 180 miles by crow.
    226 miles vs. 274 miles by car.
    Alberta's roads 15% longer than the crow.
    BC's roads 52% longer than the crow. And that ignores their hills. Bad, bad, bad province.
    Last edited by KC; 06-06-2016 at 10:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    A diamond interchange would be better in Sicamous than a traffic circle.

    But Salmon Arm really needed a bypass 20 years ago, and of course more so now. I'd really like to see BC's long term plan, while they have added an interchange in Salmon Arm I can't imagine they'd build a freeway right smack dab through the middle of town.

    This is the Trans-Canada Highway meant to take stuff from sea to sea not some small secondary highway.
    It would a bit of a challenge building an interchange at the current location of the Hwy 1/97A intersection. They would need to relign Hwy 1 to bypass the town, probably north of the Eagle River.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I meant building a freeway through Salmon Arm, which is what BC Transportation and Infrastructure seem to be doing (eventually), to me it seems easier to bypass it. Sicamous is small enough that you should be able to twin Trans-Canada, and eventually make it into a freeway without needing to bypass the town.

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    I was responding to your first comment re: traffic circle vs interchange in Sicamous.
    As for Salmon Arm, not sure if they can bypass it given its location betwixt a lake and mountains.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    The grades might be acceptable if they go south a bit and then north of the airport.

    My idea if money was unlimited would be build two bridges across the arm and go north of town, however you have the deep lake, cliffs, which may necessitate tunnels, of course that would cost hundreds of millions maybe a couple billion.

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    ^ Why would you need two bridges and tunnels? One bridge from Canoe to Sunnybrae and about 10 km of connecting roads on relatively gentle terrain would effectively bypass Salmon Arm and shorten the highway by a few km. The bridge would be about the same length as the Okanagan Lake bridge.

    If billions of dollars were available, the entire Shuswap area could be bypassed by upgrading the back roads and logging roads from Three Valley Gap to Quilchena.

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    Oh I was thinking of east of there, from just west of Sicamous to Canoe Point, but if the lake is shallow enough there and money wasn't an option your plan makes more sense and will lop off a few miles to Vancouver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I was responding to your first comment re: traffic circle vs interchange in Sicamous.
    As for Salmon Arm, not sure if they can bypass it given its location betwixt a lake and mountains.
    I'm wondering why they couldn't go a little bit up the mountain to the south of Salmon Arm? BC has done that already with the Kicking Horse Canyon and the Oyama bypass (Hwy 97). It could link with the corner at the west end of Salmon Arm and Hwy 97B. In reading BC highways mandate, they want to "link communities as opposed to bypass them", so this could still provide access to Salmon Arm for tourist traffic but provide a sufficient bypass to its central business district.

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    First major step we need to see is the twinning of the entire Alberta freeway from Edmonton to the BC border.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    New Valemount, B.C. ski resort one step closer to reality
    Province approves master plan for Valemount Glacier Destination Resort

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...oval-1.3725221

    http://valemountglaciers.com/
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Interesting how little resistance this one met vs. Jumbo. I don't know much about either proposal, so there could well be good reasons why that's the case. I'm hopeful it'll be a good resort. My two favorites are two of the newest in Kicking Horse and Revy, and this one should be closer than either drive time wise.

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    ^I wonder how it will do, its a long way from any major population center. Beautiful area, but heck of a drive.

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    The same can be said of Kicking Horse and Revy. Especially Revy. No nearby airports, either. And both are doing quite well. Kicking Horse is in desperate need of more lift capacity, actually. Lines on busy weekends can be an hour or more, as they really only have one lift out of the base area (the Catamount chair is for beginners only, and incredibly slow). Many people from Edmonton make the drives to Kicking Horse, Revy, Panorama, and Fernie and those resorts are all further away than this one will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    The same can be said of Kicking Horse and Revy. Especially Revy. No nearby airports, either. And both are doing quite well. Kicking Horse is in desperate need of more lift capacity, actually. Lines on busy weekends can be an hour or more, as they really only have one lift out of the base area (the Catamount chair is for beginners only, and incredibly slow). Many people from Edmonton make the drives to Kicking Horse, Revy, Panorama, and Fernie and those resorts are all further away than this one will be.
    Kicking Horse is less than three hours from Calgary, Revy a little over four hours. So favourably comparable to Jasper from Edmonton and both have extremely good terrain. Also between Kamloops, Vernon, and Kelowna there is some local population for Revy.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Revy gets the love because of the snow conditions and not nearly as crowded plus the town is awesome. Plenty of my buddies and I hit up revy because of those bits.

    This will see some love given that it's on the route to Van.

    I make the drive quite often and this would give me an excuse to slow the drive down. Stop in for the day and shred some gnar, then get back on the road. Boo yeah. Plus it would add at least 12-18 ride days per season for moi. Have quite a few friends who drive Edmonton-Van a few times a season for various reasons, they are all shred heads and if the ridin' is good then there will for sure be an extra day taken to get some turns in.

    Couple of people from my undergrad live in Valemont and we go take the sleds up into the back country and find some of the deep fluffs, pretty much always good ridin' to be had out that way. I would be shocked if the snow conditions aren't max chooch factor making the ol' ski bunnies wet in the clam bakes what have ya.

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    What is "Revy"? Revelstoke?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    What is "Revy"? Revelstoke?
    It's YRV (as in YEG).

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoebsPeugot208 View Post
    . . . max chooch factor making the ol' ski bunnies wet in the clam bakes what have ya.
    I need that explained, too.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    What is "Revy"? Revelstoke?
    It's YRV (as in YEG).
    Zero to do with the airport code. I'd wager most locals don't even know what the code is, as there's no regular commercial flights to it. It's just a shorthand used by pretty much everyone that lives or goes there. Revy was also the name of a hardware store that started in BC, I would assume originally in Revelstoke. It was of course eventually bought out by Rona.

    In any case, it's preferable to "Revelstuck", which truckers know it by.

    It'll be interesting to see if the resort in Valemount will actually make it past the first phase of development before stalling out like Revy and Kicking Horse have. Ski resorts don't tend to make a lot of money on operations. They've mostly become real estate plays.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 19-08-2016 at 10:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    The same can be said of Kicking Horse and Revy. Especially Revy. No nearby airports, either. And both are doing quite well. Kicking Horse is in desperate need of more lift capacity, actually. Lines on busy weekends can be an hour or more, as they really only have one lift out of the base area (the Catamount chair is for beginners only, and incredibly slow). Many people from Edmonton make the drives to Kicking Horse, Revy, Panorama, and Fernie and those resorts are all further away than this one will be.
    Kicking Horse is less than three hours from Calgary, Revy a little over four hours. So favourably comparable to Jasper from Edmonton and both have extremely good terrain. Also between Kamloops, Vernon, and Kelowna there is some local population for Revy.
    Kamloops isn't much farther from Valemount than from Revelstoke, and Prince George is under 300 km away as well. Also, Valemount is only an hour farther from Edmonton than the only other major ski resort on the way, whereas Calgarians have driven past four before they are even halfway to Revelstoke.

  78. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    What is "Revy"? Revelstoke?
    I thought it was the home & garden centre prior to it becoming Rona. (j/k)

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    Will be checking out the TCH. Leaving Friday for 10 days in BC. Used my Airmiles and booked hotels. Gotta use them up. Revy first night, Kelowna 2 nights, English Bay 3, and wherever we end up after that. Probably to the island then back home. Should be great.

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    Taking 5 / 16 back? West on Hwy 1 and east on Hwy 5/16 makes a nice loop. Hwy 1 scenery is equally good in both directions, but you only get the amazing views of Mt Robson when heading east on 16.

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    I agree. Coming back on 5/16 offers great views...Avola, Blue River, coming into the Valemount area, and then of course Mt. Robson!
    Onward and upward

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    Havn't decided that yet, came back 5/16 last time. Brother lives in Hinton. I like it but the wife prefers Banff/Calgary and you know how that works. I've been every which way so many times so It doesn't matter to me. I used to like hwy 22 down to the Crowsnest or thru radium and Cranbrook, just really take my time that way and check out all the towns. Osoyoos is one of my favorite spots.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 30-08-2016 at 05:40 PM.

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    Why does the wife prefer going via Banff?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    She is Asian and likes busy places I think, she also wants to stop in Calgary at her specialty asian store or two and the CrossIron Mills, but I can't really answer your question fully because I am often in the dark myself. lol. Last time coming by Mt Robson and all the nice stuff she is either sleeping or looking at her phone. Just wanted to find a place where she could have Pho in Jasper and declined stopping for a coffee at my brothers house in Hinton. I just go with the flow most of the time.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 30-08-2016 at 06:20 PM.

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    A cheezy yet half informative mini doc on the building of the Coquihalla from BC Transportation. Never realized it was built in just 20 months.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY2Uqqyr_P0

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    Massey Tunnel replacement project given environmental green light

    http://globalnews.ca/news/3239775/ma...l-green-light/

    I hate this tunnel, glad to see this project get the go-ahead
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Given the volume of traffic, I think that the new bridge will clear up a lot of congestion.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    I know, right? Last time I drove/ferried/drove from Victoria I made the mistake of taking Hwy 99 into Vancouver at about the afternoon rush hour. The narrowing of 3 busy lanes into 1 before going through the tunnel was a total gong show.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Given the volume of traffic, I think that the new bridge will clear up a lot of congestion.
    But possibly increase congestion around the Alex Fraser and Pattullo bridges as another crossing gets a toll (unless they listen to the suggestions that all of the Fraser River crossings should be tolled equally).

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    Feds, province to spend $469M to expand TransCanada Highway in B.C. Rockies

    With a whopping price tag of $110 million dollars per kilometre, the short stretch of road through Kicking Horse Canyon is expected to become the priciest road work in Canadian history
    http://www.canadianmanufacturing.com...mpaign=170221C
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    Feds, province to spend $469M to expand TransCanada Highway in B.C. Rockies

    With a whopping price tag of $110 million dollars per kilometre, the short stretch of road through Kicking Horse Canyon is expected to become the priciest road work in Canadian history
    http://www.canadianmanufacturing.com...mpaign=170221C
    not hard to figure out why it would be so pricy driving through this section.

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    Yes, the amount of blasting and protections for future rock falls goes up exponentially and it is not like the old days when you could just allow everything to fill in the canyons. This is a very tight route.

    Interesting side note that it is as expensive as building a streetcar route in the mountains of Edmonton. FCOL
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Curious to see what they have in mind for that last bit of single lane before you hit Golden. Hard to believe that it used to be 50+ km of that. But that last 4km or so is going to be a doozy. I'd imagine they'll have to do a significant amount of tunneling.

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    I'm still not sure if it is worth it. It sucks to be stuck behind a truck doing 40 km/h through there, but it only takes 5 minutes. Half a billion could buy a lot of needed upgrades elsewhere. Increasing the speed limits by 20 km/h on either side would help cut driver frustration too - make it 80 km/h from hwy 95 junction to the top of the hill, then 100 km/h to the start of the twisty section, keep the 80 km/h for the twisty section itself, then back to 100 km/h on the other side going down the hill to the bridge.

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    It's little to do with inconvenience. The collision rate there is 3x higher than other areas of the same highway. Plus if anything happens on that stretch it shuts down everything from Golden to Field, which is a huge issue for logistics.

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    The section is a bottleneck and an embarrassment of our national transcanada highway system that has not been significantly upgraded since the early 1970's if I recall.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 22-02-2017 at 08:39 AM.
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    Yeah, to me it's not about travel time. It's about road safety and reducing closures. There are a huge number of rock slides on that section as well.

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    The short distance also limits the safety returns. A 3x higher collision rate means that 4 km is equivalent to 12 km of "average" highway. An improvement somewhere else that reduced the collision rate by a smaller margin over a longer distance could have equal or better gains in safety. It is also not the worst closure point on highway 1, as detouring via highway 93 and 95 adds ~100 km, while a detour around the Rogers pass section will add ~500 km for most trips (unless you hear about it early enough to take the Yellowhead instead).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    The short distance also limits the safety returns. A 3x higher collision rate means that 4 km is equivalent to 12 km of "average" highway. An improvement somewhere else that reduced the collision rate by a smaller margin over a longer distance could have equal or better gains in safety. It is also not the worst closure point on highway 1, as detouring via highway 93 and 95 adds ~100 km, while a detour around the Rogers pass section will add ~500 km for most trips (unless you hear about it early enough to take the Yellowhead instead).
    Fair, but they've already dumped a ton of money into widening the pass and putting in safety measures. It's this stretches turn to be brought up to modern standards.

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    They are also twinning 6km in Yoho NP from the Alberta border to close to the start of the Big Hill
    http://www.pc.gc.ca/eng/pn-np/bc/yoh...t/tch-rtc.aspx

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