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Thread: Terwillegar Drive | Freeway Upgrades | Planning/Discussion

  1. #1
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    Default Terwillegar Drive | Freeway Upgrades | Planning/Discussion

    Living in the Riverbend area and driving Terwillegar on a daily basis, does anyone here know the approximate timeline for making 40th/Bulyea, Rabbit Hill Road, and 23rd Avenue proper overpasses and turning it into a proper Freeway? (and further down at Haddow, Henday, and the new road into Windermere)
    I also believe I have seen diagrams of a more complex intersection with the Whitemud.
    It would seem with the rapid growth seen in the area such a project would be feesible, but I guess with other priorities such as Henday expansion, 23/Gateway, etc it may be pushed to the backburner for the time being.
    But for a major route through a major suburban component of the city, it sure a) looks stupid having the road split apart for the intersections, than come back down, etc and b) gets backed up like crazy in rush hour.
    Hopefully someone has somewhat of an idea.
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    Default Re: Terwillegar Drive

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBronze
    But for a major route through a major suburban component of the city, it sure a) looks stupid having the road split apart for the intersections, than come back down, etc and b) gets backed up like crazy in rush hour.
    Shhh! Do you want a Canadian Tire or an Ikea put in there? With the right tax breaks they can have their grand openings by July 31, 2008.

  3. #3
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    I hope it stays on the backburner until after the yellowhead is complete. why start another freeway when the ones we have are decades from completion?

    There are many roads that get backed up 'like crazy'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander
    I hope it stays on the backburner until after the yellowhead is complete. why start another freeway when the ones we have are decades from completion?

    There are many roads that get backed up 'like crazy'.
    i'd agree. The Yellowhead and Gateway are important to commerce....Terwillegar's only "benefit" is to allow people to build further out in Windermer and Riverbend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LindseyT
    i'd agree. The Yellowhead and Gateway are important to commerce....Terwillegar's only "benefit" is to allow people to build further out in Windermer and Riverbend.
    Ahhhh - but I expect that there is a lot of money to be made in converting farm land to new neighborhoods - probably more than buying and then enhancing already developed land around the Yellowhead or Gateway. Like them or not, I expect there are reasons why infrastructure has kept pushing further and further out.

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    looks stupid having the road split apart for the intersections, than come back down

    Looks refreshingly like good transportation planning to me. But, I agree with others here - finish Yellowhead and the Henday first.

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    Not to support more bedroom community growth, but I wonder if there's a chance of Terwillegar Drive getting extended all the way out to Devon? But give the city credit for at least planning ahead to allow for eventual interchange construction. There were recent plans for a couple of the interchanges a couple of years ago or so.
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    the thing i wonder about terwilleger drive is why there are 2 left turn lanes onto rabbithill road and that other road. that messes up traffic so bad and its really useless. Just the one left hand turn lane is enough not the 1 left turn lane and 1 combo left turn straight lane.

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    Pa-Don me if I am mistakin' but was the question not about a more efficient movement of traffic between Whitmud thru to Henday by removal of the delays caused by these lights and intersections thru the use of underpasses??

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    These 2 overpasses need to be done 2 yrs ago. I use to live in the SW and recall planning sessions for these back in 2001/02 for it to be completed by 2007/08/09.

    While there are other problems out there...the section from the whitemud to AHD needs to get done. It allows for alternative routes to occur and takes more pressure off of gateway.

    if you have never driven at rush hour on terwillegar drive, try it.....you wont want to do it more than once.
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    What are the plans for the interchange between terwillegar and AHD? Is it going to be a 23rd ave style interchange with lights or is it eventually going to be freeflow? From looking at google earth and driving it, it seems to be 23rd ave style. If the plan is to have Terwillegar freeflow from whitemud to AHD, and for it to eventually connect to highway 2A, shouldnt they just make it a freeflow interchange?

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    There will eventually be another bridge on Terwillegar crossing AHD. You can see the piles of dirt east of the existing bridge where it will be. That will make the next phase similar to 111 Street and Whitemud. After that there will likely be more loop ramps with eventually it becoming free flow. That will be quite a few years away. 20+

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    I'd say even longer than that. I don't think the traffic exchange there would warrent any addition work for a long long long time.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    After that there will likely be more loop ramps with eventually it becoming free flow.
    With this interchange design N/S traffic along Terwilleger Drive will not be free flow. Split diamond just like 170 Street/Whitemud Drive and 111 Street/Whitemud Drive. Not sure why they designed it this way.

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    I wonder how long before Terwillegar drive becomes a freeway between the Whitemud and AHD. It can get pretty busy.

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    mmmm ramps mmmmm !

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    Terwillegar will be a freeway at some point. It will skirt the west side of the airport, and tie in to Hwy 2 south of Leduc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecker View Post
    Terwillegar will be a freeway at some point. It will skirt the west side of the airport, and tie in to Hwy 2 south of Leduc.
    Not sure about that. From everything that I've read it will be an expressway (with traffic lights) through Windermere from the split diamond at AHD to 41 Avenue SW.

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    Maybe for the next 50 years yes... but after that, there's always potential to turn it into a freeway.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Maybe for the next 50 years yes... but after that, there's always potential to turn it into a freeway.
    Let's hope the ROW is wide enough!

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    Quote Originally Posted by deedub35 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Maybe for the next 50 years yes... but after that, there's always potential to turn it into a freeway.
    Let's hope the ROW is wide enough!
    Well Terwillegar Drive from the Whitemud south is quite wide, and was designed for a freeway, so not sure why they wouldn't continue with that ROW considering the growth the south side of the city has seen, and will likely continue to see in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Well Terwillegar Drive from the Whitemud south is quite wide, and was designed for a freeway, so not sure why they wouldn't continue with that ROW considering the growth the south side of the city has seen, and will likely continue to see in the future.
    Just took a look at Google maps. The intersection at 170 street and approx 7 avenue SW looks pretty tight.

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    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...campaign-issue


    On Terwillegar Drive, drivers stick to the on-off ramps, zipping up and down from traffic light to traffic light.

    That’s because on-off ramps are all Edmonton ever built of the mighty Terwillegar freeway – originally designed as a free-flow corridor to open southwest Edmonton and run straight past the airport.

    Development went ahead, filling up the tableland between Whitemud Creek and the North Saskatchewan River, stretching farther south faster than anyone imagined. But Terwillegar freeway didn’t follow.

    Now 30 years later — with annexation and more growth looming — the community has had enough. One collision on a major road can snarl traffic five kilometres away, and it does, regularly, forcing some residents to leave for appointments an hour early because they have no faith in the roads.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  24. #24

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    ^
    But an alternative would be to upgrade the east-west links from that area – 23 Avenue and Ellerslie Road – to lure more people east, over Whitemud Creek to take 111 Street or Gateway Boulevard north.
    You mean the road they just spent almost an entire summer ....re-paving/ re-curbing???..... haha-aghhhhhh.. this city sometimes

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    Ellerslie road needs to upgraded either way. 23rd avenue - no one is going to use 23rd avenue to go downtown. Terwillegar should be upgraded to a full freeway in stages over the next 20 years, starting with 40th avenue, the rest in phases. The city should seek for the province involvement, and turn the full extension south of leduc as a highway 2A or redesignate in hwy 2, and remove that status from gateway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Ellerslie road needs to upgraded either way. 23rd avenue - no one is going to use 23rd avenue to go downtown. Terwillegar should be upgraded to a full freeway in stages over the next 20 years, starting with 40th avenue, the rest in phases. The city should seek for the province involvement, and turn the full extension south of leduc as a highway 2A or redesignate in hwy 2, and remove that status from gateway.
    Completely agree, although I think the city should at least get to 23 Ave in phase 1. That would relieve A LOT of the congestion.

    As for their plan to integrate LRT and Express buses, Im fine with express buses IF they build the freeway plan, if they only plan on building BRT lanes then why bother? And LRT should only go down Terwilleger drive if built the same way as down Crowchild Trail in Calgary.

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    We must get the whitemud to AHD.
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    I'm thinking the easiest interchange would be 40 Avenue.
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    ^^ Easily a billion dollars of work to re-do the Terwillegar / Whitemud Interchange and AHD/Terwillegar Interchange as well as 23rd Ave, Rabbit Hill Road, 40 avenue...

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    Don't rework it though... just put the 4-6 lanes with overpasses at 40th, RHR and 23.
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    it needs to be re-worked, especially as traffic volumes grow. It's not designed for the capacity it will soon handle. Terwillegar and the Henday need to be a system to system free flow interchange.

    Terwillegar will either become highway 2, or 2A...

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    Proposed Terwillegar Whitemud configuration. This is old, so don't get too excited.

  33. #33

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    This plan shows a single interchange by 2041 between Whitemud and Henday.

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    ^^what a construction cluster...
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    Yeah, it'd be a mess for a while. Do you think Yellowhead/127 St. construction will be a picnic? Totally worth it in the end, though. It's not like we haven't gone through something like that in Edmonton before. But it just goes to show the importance of building infrastructure properly in the first place.

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    Oh, it is important to get these done, but the Y/217 is a MUST and is awful right now, Terw is just not efficient and was not properly design to begin with.
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    It's not safe either, left-exit/entrance interchanges are a terrible design. Especially when they're placed so close to other interchanges.

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    It looks like Terwillegar Drive will have a similar arrangement as 170/178 Street on Whitemud, if the exits to 40 Avenue/Bulyea Road connect at the Whitemud/Terwillegar interchange. I'm also thinking if there's more development at the Edmonton International Airport, Highway 2A to Terwillegar might be built sooner than later.
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    I'm glad Parseyan recognizes this issue. I know who I'll be voting for.

    http://www.parseyan.ca/infrastucture.html

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    ^I know Parseyan from years and years ago. I read some of his platform, he seems pretty informed on a lot of issues.

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    Terwillegar Drive Concept Planning Study:

    https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...gar-drive.aspx
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    It's 2006-2008 all over again!
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    They have to do a study about studies on why they study studies...
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 06-01-2018 at 09:20 AM.
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    I think Vincent's picture (http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...l=1#post845215) was from yet another study around 2000, why don't they just dust off a study and start building it instead of doing yet another study
    Last edited by sundance; 06-01-2018 at 10:13 AM.

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    Memo to City Hall: The road is physically the same. The traffic has increased. So add another lane in each direction. Now that wasn't difficult was it?
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    Hand-waving is always easier...
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    I think an easy solution would be making a flyover bridge from Whitemud westbound to Terwillegar southbound.
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    City policy. Studies and plans have expiration dates.

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    But was ring our tax dollars and cause further delays with another study, never goes out of style...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cumberland View Post
    It's not safe either, left-exit/entrance interchanges are a terrible design. Especially when they're placed so close to other interchanges.
    I hope everyone realizes that any time one freeway merges with another one must enter on the right and one must enter on the left. Once there are more people outside the inner ring than in, this design would actually be better. Of course this is only valid when Terwillegar becomes the freeway it was first envisioned as.

  51. #51

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    City plans to improve traffic flow on Terwillegar Drive



    The City is working on an updated concept plan to convert Terwillegar Drive to a free-flow freeway between Whitemud Drive and Anthony Henday Drive. Residents are invited to view draft freeway design options and share input at an open house for the project.


    Date: Wednesday January 24, 2018

    Time: 4:30 - 8 p.m.

    Location: St. Thomas More Parish, 210 Haddow Close


    This project aims to alleviate congestion, meet current roadway standards and ensure safe traffic movement along this busy corridor.

    The City is engaging with residents, businesses, communities and other stakeholders during the concept study and will consider public feedback in developing the final concept plan.


    For more information:

    www.edmonton.ca/terwillegardrivestudy

  52. #52

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    10 years later and Terwillegar Drive hasn't changed lol
    Between this and the city not having the foresight to make AHD wider, especially the west bridges over the NS river, I think Edmonton is doomed to be a poorly planned traffic nightmare.

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    The AHD is not the City of Edmonton's doing.

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    If this doesn't have at least one HOV lane this will just be stupid.
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  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    10 years later and Terwillegar Drive hasn't changed lol
    Between this and the city not having the foresight to make AHD wider, especially the west bridges over the NS river, I think Edmonton is doomed to be a poorly planned traffic nightmare.
    First, the CoE is not responsible for the design or construction of the Henday, on top of that, basically no one was predicting the boom Edmonton and Alberta went through from 2004-2008 when the SW portion of the Henday was designed and built. Also, there is tons of foresight built into the Sw portion of the Henday, meant to be activated at certain levels of traffic. The SW portion of the Henday should now be entering the 3rd stage of development, however, both the PCs and the NDP have neglected to fulfill this requirement. The Entire SW portion of the Henday can be expanded to 6-8 lanes, including the bridge structures. This was a crucial part of the design.

    The problem is, nobody is pulling the trigger on the SW portion of the Henday. The foresight was there, just put the money in. Pave n go. The design is already there.

  56. #56

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    The Province should just pull up its socks and get SW AHD done. Almost no point getting the Terwillegar upgraded if the AHD isn't upgraded to handle the capacity. Terwillegar Drive north is actually currently throttling the traffic flow from getting onto Henday during rush hour. And the interchange above Henday is completely over capacity from probably 7am to 7pm

    And nor should both infrastructure projects occur concurrently because that will cripple the entire SW for two to three years.
    Last edited by B.ike; 23-01-2018 at 02:27 PM.

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    It'll be interesting to see how the SW expansion goes, considering they experimented with a concrete build and it's been a massive failure (far higher maintenance costs than hoped for, extremely rough road surface from the concrete panels shifting and needing grinding, much louder road noise etc). I'm not so sure it'll be that simple to expand if they go back to a traditional road-bed build. Don't ask me for details, that's just what a good friend who built a few of the bridges told me. But the fact that the rest of the Henday went back to traditional tells you all you need to know about the "experiment".

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    ^I've heard the same thing. I've noticed in some portions, they've just paved over the concrete slabs.

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    10 years later and Terwillegar Drive hasn't changed lol
    Between this and the city not having the foresight to make AHD wider, especially the west bridges over the NS river, I think Edmonton is doomed to be a poorly planned traffic nightmare.
    Edmonton is actually very well planned. Planning has never been the problem.

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    Sure would be nice if the city would just P3 the whole of Terwilligar from Whitemud right down to Highway 19.

    Do it all now and do it right from the start.

    Maybe charge a toll at the Leduc County border to help pay for it all
    Or just park some photo-radar trucks...same effect.

    Sure would help take some traffic off Highway 2.

  61. #61

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    Terwillegar/170th Street is the longer term highway 2 bypass route being tossed around by the province, but I think they would only care for the portion south of the henday. Would be nice to see some money for the henday to whitemud portion though.

  62. #62

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    future interchange will look like this for Henday/Terwillegar Drive


    https://www.al-terra.com/services.php?act=17041

  63. #63

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    Yup ultimately, it's meant to be a system interchange (no traffic lights). However, that is the full build, I haven't seen the various stages but an interim stage we might see something similar to Whitemud and 170st (or Deerfoot and TransCanada/16 avenue down in Calgary) where you have a square configuration. Though I hope the province just goes all the way. The interim stage of Whitemud and Henday configuration on the west end is laughable.

    What Medwards posted will have to be built when 170 Street becomes a major arterial down all the way to the EIA area.
    Last edited by B.ike; 23-01-2018 at 10:28 PM.

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    Just attended the open house. No surprises, possible limited access to 40 Ave, diamond interchanges at Rabbit Hill and 23rd. The overpass at Haddow has two options one for vehicles, one for pedestrians and bikes only.

    I inquired about leaving a ROW in the median for future LRT. They liked the idea but of course hadn't thought about it (and they're the planners not me).

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    So no transit options even for buses?
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    We've done this dance so many times with Terwillegar. I'll save my excitement for when any of this actually gets funded.

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    Sounds like 1 interchange, have to think 23ave, in the next budget and then... 10..TEN years for the rest?
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Sounds like 1 interchange, have to think 23ave, in the next budget and then... 10..TEN years for the rest?
    Weren't you arguing for tightened belts & lean budgets in this time of fiscal uncertainty in Alberta?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Just attended the open house. No surprises, possible limited access to 40 Ave, diamond interchanges at Rabbit Hill and 23rd. The overpass at Haddow has two options one for vehicles, one for pedestrians and bikes only.

    I inquired about leaving a ROW in the median for future LRT. They liked the idea but of course hadn't thought about it (and they're the planners not me).
    It's a neat idea, but the corridor is too small.

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    So no transit options even for buses?
    I can't imagine a scenario where Terwilligar is the right place for a frequent bus route. Maybe a couple of express buses to southgate, but they don't need any exclusive infrastructure on the freeway.
    There can only be one.

  71. #71

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    ^Thinking now and in 20 years time, that it's locked on all sides by freeways and geographical barriers, and taking a bus in or out at peak times means you're stuck in traffic on those few restricted routes. So planning and building a large expensive piece of infrastructure that simply allows more cars and offers no alternative to reduce that congestion seems expensive, and odd. I'm not just referring to Terwillegar itself (N-S route and into Windermere) but the overpasses going E-W over Terwillegar. Which allows access out of the area easily during rush hour west using Whitemud via Riverbend Road/51 ave, to the rec centre, and / or east along 23rd ave to the Century Park.
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    Buses rarely use Terwillegar freeway because they travel to the SLRT from their cachement areas. I don't see a need for a N-S bus lane on Terwillegar, when most transit users that head N-S are brought to the LRT line via 23rd avenue.

    Same with Windermere, those buses travel to Leger or Century Park.

    Transit usage in this area is pretty low anyways.... just due to demographics.

  73. #73

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    ^Agreed on the use of 23rd avenue.

    What would the cut-off age be for transit use?
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  74. #74

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    I would agree that 23ave is one route that should remain a significant bus route, but I doubt that specialized infrastructure on the bridge is necessary. If I had to build one bit of infrastructure to improve transit in that area it would be a 53ave bus (and bike & ped) bridge over whitemud creek with a direct access to south campus station. That would allow much more efficient local bus routing, with several new useful routes from south campus to Leger. Combined with frequent service on 23ave the area would have decent service.
    There can only be one.

  75. #75

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    I like that idea. Before the whitemud, there was to be a crossing there anyways, never built, but if you look at a map, you can tell it was meant for future consideration.

  76. #76

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    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ar-drive-talks

    The local councillor is thinking right about this.

    Why not plan a lower-speed freeway that will cost less, get built faster and doesn't need the super-long merge and weave zones of a high-speed option?

    I have no doubt that most people would be happy to drive 60 with no lights and no traffic jams if the alternative is waiting an extra 10 years for funding and an extra year of construction just to boost speed to 80.
    There can only be one.

  77. #77

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    The sum-lede is misleading. The plan would still be a full freeway, just one designed for lower speeds. Maybe like what used to be called a parkway.
    There can only be one.

  78. #78

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    60 kmph? On a freeway? Even with shorter ramps 60 does not make any sense. Roads without any ramps at all are 60. We have 80 on the whitemud because of shorter ramps. No reason Terwillegar can't also be at least 80.

  79. #79

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    Just last week I was merging into the Henday at 60 kmph - everybody does it. (In this case I trapped behind a guy doing 60 on the merge lane and I had to take to the shoulder as a big truck hit it’s brakes...) Every second Edmonton driver already thinks the Anthony Henday is a Max 60 roadway.

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    60 kmph? On a freeway? Even with shorter ramps 60 does not make any sense. Roads without any ramps at all are 60. We have 80 on the whitemud because of shorter ramps. No reason Terwillegar can't also be at least 80.
    The councillor was on the Jespersen Show on CHED this morning. He stated that the big problem with making this an 80 km/h road is the problem child of the Whitemud/Terwilliger interchange. In order to redesign the interchange to allow 80 km/h, you'd have to eliminate access to 40 avenue from Terwilliger. This was the original proposal to be put in front of council, and there was a strong community backlash to it, as it would significantly increase traffic through the other roads in the rest of the neighbourhood. Limiting the speed to 60 km/h means you can keep the access to 40 avenue needed by the residents. As Highlander II stated earlier, the people using the road to get in and out of the Southwest, including on to Windermere, would rather have a slower but signal free route if it means it can actually be built. And staging the build in the manner proposed by the councillor will allow it to be built; the councillor stated taking on the entire project would eat the roads budget for the city for a number of years, and the other councillors would never give up budget for their areas for the time it would take to run the project as a single entity. By doing it in bite-size pieces, this project may finally come to fruition.

  81. #81

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    I don't know that 60 is what he is actually proposing.

    All I know is that at whatever design speed the city is currently planning they had to either eliminate ramps from 40ave to the north, or build an extra-complex interchange with extra bridges to avoid mixing conflicts.

    Groat Road south of 111ave is also effectively a freeway, moves lots of volume at 50km/hr with no stops and has even shorter ramps with narrower lanes than our "real" freeways.

    We're talking about a 4km expressway with very little regional use.

    at 60 it will take 4 minutes to travel, versus 3 minutes at eighty, or 2:40 at 90. It's not worth hundreds of millions to the city to save that 1 minute travel time.
    There can only be one.

  82. #82

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    Groat is also much too slow at 50, but that's another discussion.

    I'm strongly opposed to doing something half assed just so it can get done quickly. If you're gonna do it, do it right so that future generations don't have to complain about it until it gets redone properly anyway. Do a proper interchange now at whitemud and then do one interchange at a time (on Terwillegar) after that.

  83. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Groat is also much too slow at 50, but that's another discussion.

    I'm strongly opposed to doing something half assed just so it can get done quickly. If you're gonna do it, do it right so that future generations don't have to complain about it until it gets redone properly anyway. Do a proper interchange now at whitemud and then do one interchange at a time (on Terwillegar) after that.
    The only way to do it at full speed is to eliminate the 40 avenue intersection, and that is a no go with the community. As Highlander pointed out, the trip differential between 60, 70 and 80 km/h isn't that much; the key thing is eliminating the congestion from the intersections. It currently takes a half hour or moreto clear the space between the Henday and Whitemud at rush hour. I've driven from the Whitemud to the Henday along Terwilliger, and even hitting all the lights it takes less then 10 minutes. Even if they keep it at 60 or 70 km/h, each intersection you eliminate will help speed things along. So this is have arsing it, its building it to the way the community has grown in the last thirty years. If we wanted fewer intersections, it should have been built as a freeway to begin with, before the housing was put it. The housing is not going to change, so we need to build the throughway to what's there now.

    PS: When I had the car, I loved the twisty curves on Groat Road. A great example of a low speed shortcut. From my place at the top of Victoria Park hill, it was often faster to shoot down to Westmount mall then it was to the get to the heart of big D Downtown.

  84. #84

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    The city is going to have bite the bullet eventually on the terwillegar/whitemud interchange. The interchange is at capacity, Terwillegar Drive south of the Henday is a future provincial highway, potentially Hwy 2A. The city would be wise to not put in a short term cheap fix here at 40th avenue, which may end up costing lots more to replace it properly in the long run.

  85. #85
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    Agree with Medwards. Enough paying a bunch a bunch of money but still not enough to do it right, then spending twice as much to do it right 10-15 years later. Just so it right to begin with. We did it with 23rd ave and Calgary Trail. We should bite the bullet and do it here too.

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    It's currently 70 with lights though...

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    You could have right on/right off ramps at 40th Avenue, doesn't cut off access totally to the neighborhood

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    For me this is perhaps the most needed transportation upgrade outside of Central Edmonton. Do it right, do it now.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    ^100% agreed. It's actually kind of embarrassing the way it is now... Having it as a free flow artery would be way better for both residents and people just passing through

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    ^^Concur. And building a 'freeway' with a 60kph speed limit is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
    On/off ramps for 40th ave and WMD interchange can work if designed properly (i.e. Option A, North Section). There is ample room.

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    I grew up in the SW and this should have been done to time with the SW AHD... let alone now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Groat is also much too slow at 50, but that's another discussion.

    I'm strongly opposed to doing something half assed just so it can get done quickly. If you're gonna do it, do it right so that future generations don't have to complain about it until it gets redone properly anyway. Do a proper interchange now at whitemud and then do one interchange at a time (on Terwillegar) after that.
    Yes, do it right and do it right from the start.

    Create a P3 arrangement and have the Local Services Pension Plan put up the money and get a 6% return for the next 25 to 30 years. Have to close that $373 million pension liability some how.

    That way, all the interchanges get done at the same time, all the way to Highway 19.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Groat is also much too slow at 50, but that's another discussion.

    I'm strongly opposed to doing something half assed just so it can get done quickly. If you're gonna do it, do it right so that future generations don't have to complain about it until it gets redone properly anyway. Do a proper interchange now at whitemud and then do one interchange at a time (on Terwillegar) after that.
    Yes, do it right and do it right from the start.

    (...)
    Let me add my voice to the "do it right" chorus. Please, for the love of not making Edmonton look any more incompetent, do this simple...long overdue...already laid out expressway correctly.

    Please....no more Groat Road/Capilano-Gretzky/Yellowhead forever impaired projects....
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  94. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimCartmell.com
    The Time is Now for Terwillegar - Motion Passed!
    POSTED BY TIMOTHY CARTMELL 8SC ON FEBRUARY 21, 2018




    I am thrilled that my motion related to the Terwillegar Corridor received unanimous support at the February 27, 2018 Council meeting:


    Motion


    That Administration do the following:


    1. Suspend any public engagement activities regarding the ultimate long term Terwillegar Drive / Whitemud Drive interchange and any roadway modifications that may limit access in the interim;
    2. Optimize the concept plan for the Terwillegar corridor between Whitemud Drive and Anthony Henday Drive, including provision for opportunities of mass transit and active transportation;
    3. Advance the Preliminary Design for Terwillegar Drive / 40th Avenue interchange;
    4. Advance the Preliminary Design for an optimized Stage 2 of the Whitemud Drive / Terwillegar Drive interchange, with consideration for reduced design parameters (i.e. design speeds) with the intent of reducing overall complexity and cost;
    5. Continue to advance preliminary design on the basis of a number of $75-100M packages in support of staged completion of the Terwillegar corridor, including full access for 40th Avenue, Rabbit Hill Road, 23 Avenue, and Haddow Drive;
    6. Present a list of potential shared funding opportunities with the provincial and federal government that take advantage of infrastructure and innovation funding;
    7. Bring back to Council a report summarizing progress on the aforementioned design elements in 2018 Q3.

    The purpose of this motion is to develop a plan to move forward and get the ball rolling on developing the Terwillegar Corridor, while listening to the hundreds of residents who have provided feedback on the project to my office.


    I have heard loud and clear that residents want full access to Terwillegar Drive, from the four key intersections of 40th Avenue, Rabbit Hill Road, 23rd Avenue, and Haddow Drive.


    Support for this motion will allow for shovels to get in the ground as soon as possible so that residents in Ward 9 can get their time back.


    If you support this plan, have your voice heard by adding your signature at http://www.timcartmell.ca/the_time_is_now.


    Please feel free to share the call to action with your friends and neighbours, so that we may have a unified voice in Southwest Edmonton on the need for development to begin.
    Reading the above, the reduced speed is only mentioned regarding the Terwilliger/Whitemud interchange. Past 40 avenue, this may mean the rest of the drive could function at a higher speed, depending on the room for the off ramps, while maintaining access to the existing roads.

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    That's my understanding of it as well. I can deal with 1 slightly lower speed area there.

  96. #96

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    It may just mean clover leafs instead of fly overs.

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    No room for cloverleafs at any of those locations except Henday.

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    I see the point about keeping full access to Terwillegar Drive from 40 Avenue but am not convinced about the Haddow Drive intersection.

    Haddow Drive is four lanes only a short distance east and west of Terwillegar after which it quickly narrows to two lanes and becomes a residential street. It's also not that far from the 23 Avenue intersection. Contrary to Cartmell's motion, a flyover rather than an interchange would seem more appropriate at Haddow Drive.

  99. #99
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    Agreed. Both Terwillegar and Haddow (neighbourhoods) have other access available via 23rd. No need to have a full interchange there.

  100. #100

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    Only one of the examples shows Haddow drive being anything more than a fly over. Haddow drive has always been planned this way.

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