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Thread: Ralph Klein

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    Default Ralph Klein

    I haven't lived in Edmonton for too long, but Ralph Klein was/is not very popular in Edmonton. Curious to know what was the reasoning other than the fact that he was Calgary mayor, and how other premiers were towards Edmonton.

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    i think he is vindictive, rude person whose only talent was to get to and stay in power. he showed no compassion. he was a poor role model with his drinking and other inexcusable behaviour. he favoured Calgary, no question in my mind. That goes beyond him having been their mayor in the past. he effectively tried to shift power there through all sorts of policies, promotion, and financial aid. he does not understand (through policy at least) the value of education, the value of public health care and the value of social care. he admittedly run a populist government. his favourite expression about "seeing where the parade was going and getting in front of it" says it all. the man had no imagination and no plan for running the province beyond taking credit for things that were already taking place. he was a very poor representative of this province and I thank god he is no longer the premier. i am sure I have more to say, but I'll leave it to others for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grish
    i think he is vindictive, rude person
    That also describes a significant number of contributors to C2E.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwells
    Quote Originally Posted by grish
    i think he is vindictive, rude person
    That also describes a significant number of contributors to C2E.
    ok...

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    He was a good mayor, an adequate MLA, but as Premier he was in over his head.

    I never liked him because he got elected by promising lower taxes, but then raised user fees for things like driving, health care, and education. So he wasn't really the bargain he portrayed himself to be, because it is still cash out of our pockets.

    That and everything grish said about his character.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grish
    i think he is vindictive, rude person whose only talent was to get to and stay in power. he showed no compassion. he was a poor role model with his drinking and other inexcusable behaviour. he favoured Calgary, no question in my mind. That goes beyond him having been their mayor in the past. he effectively tried to shift power there through all sorts of policies, promotion, and financial aid. he does not understand (through policy at least) the value of education, the value of public health care and the value of social care. he admittedly run a populist government. his favourite expression about "seeing where the parade was going and getting in front of it" says it all. the man had no imagination and no plan for running the province beyond taking credit for things that were already taking place. he was a very poor representative of this province and I thank god he is no longer the premier. i am sure I have more to say, but I'll leave it to others for now.
    You hit the nail on the head grish,the only thing I can add is he was arrogant.

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    I don't think history will be particularly kind to Ralph Klein. He was maybe the right person at the right time in the early 90's to step in and significantly cut back spending and balancing the budget, but once that was under control he just kind of wandered around aimlessly with no plan and no purpose. And those 10 years of stagnation are coming back to haunt us in a big way.

    That said, I don't think that he's a bad person, in any way. We could have had a lot worse, like Glen Clarke for example. I don't think you could ever accuse Klein of being dishonest for his own financial benefit.

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    the cuts of the early 90's simply transfered the debt from finances to infrastructure. it was a shell game, a disappearing act--now you see it, now you don't. it also created an overt crisis with health and education that the PC's tried to off load on private resources to some success. Basically, they have undermined health care and education and infrastructure and then claimed that to fix everything we need private sector to step in.

    the deregulation of utilities is another multi-billion dollar scandal that hasn't exploded in PC's faces yet simply because they can continue to cover it up with "subsidies" from money that they were so fortunate to get from the rise of oil and gas costs.

    He is not dishonest? What about plagiarism--that paper that he wrote about the Pinochet regime he tried to table in the leg was a bad cut-and-paste job from the internet. Not being caught is not the same as not being dishonest.

    Not a bad person? Getting drunk, throwing money at homeless, throwing a book at a page (while hitting the girl was an accident--the act of throwing it away was childish reaction unbecoming of a premier).

    The history will not be kind to him? People should not have been kind to him in his present.

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    Yes, I don't think anyone should be making excuses for Ralphie. How can anyone defend a man that went to a homeless shelter drunk to berate those with serious financial and psychological problems in the middle of the night? A man that plagiarized entire sections of a university paper and was not thrown out like any other person? A man that admitted to taking a Government plane on a golfing junket to Nova Scotia?

    Klein was a terrible Premier with no plan for the Province - he didn't 'give a tinker's damn' after all. I am just amazed that people elected him for so long in the rest of the Province because he would have been thrown out anywhere else.

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    Ralph hated Edmonton. The McDougall Centre in Calgary was the unofficial Legislature during Ralph's reign.

    Ralph built Calgary a fantastic new 24 floor court house. Nice building.

    Ralph isn't half the man Lougheed was but both shared a vision for building up Calgary at the expense of Edmonton.

    Stelmach or whoever wins the election has their work cut out for them in both Edmonton and Calgary cleaning up the mess left behind by the great communicator.

    Calgary is now, and always has been a city of spoiled rich kids. Even Rod Love, Ralph's buddy and long time conservative advisor to the rich and famous on the right, has crossed sides and is now supporting the Liberals.

    Ralph reminds me of George W. Let's charm the masses and cozy up to big oil while Rome burns.

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    The problem is, Calgary actually feels as if they have been cheated large sums of money too, even thought they have had freeways built, a large LRT network, new courthouse... While both cities are trying to make up for the cuts in the 90s to infrastructure, Calgarians need to realize that they were much better off than Edmonton was. Ralph ignored our provincial capital, and I don't think Stelmach has done much better.

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    He didn't solve anything! He has only made things worse. Us taxpayers were the ones who paid off the debt, course we still have one. He cut money to the cities, & counties & just passed the buck (not literally of course). As far as I'm concerned him & Steve West should be drawn and quartered cause they have sold us out & ruined this once great Province. The guy is an ***ho**

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    Alberta is one of the richest places on earth, and one of the few debt free ones at that (i.e. our children will not be paying off our current lifestyles). That was not really the case before Ralph took power. I think history will judge him by the ultimate results, not the day to day mistakes or human failings.

    I was only here at the end of Ralph's reign, when he seemed to have been in a little too long. He has personality though - a folksy charm - love him or loath him, a highly talented politician, and he is honestly human too - with all the good and bad things that go with that.

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    Alberta's wealth and lack of debt isn't because of Ralph Klein, but despite him. Our economic boom, especially in regards to oil and gas exploration would've shown up on our doorstep no matter who was in power. The only thing is, if someone else was in power, we might have more to show for ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder
    Our economic boom, especially in regards to oil and gas exploration would've shown up on our doorstep no matter who was in power.
    The soviet union had terrific natural wealth, but did not go through an economic boom that resulted in wealth for the masses. Outside factors matter, but good management is key too. Clinton, for me, is another example. I don't think he was just "lucky" (just listen to Greenspan), or that his human failings, made him "bad". Ralph contributed to creating one of the most business friendly environments in the world in Alberta. That attracted the investment that has made so many rich. For example, I think our Provincial agencies are better than any. While many want to focus on the negative, it doesn't take a lot of effort to see the positive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter
    Alberta is one of the richest places on earth, and one of the few debt free ones at that (i.e. our children will not be paying off our current lifestyles). That was not really the case before Ralph took power. I think history will judge him by the ultimate results, not the day to day mistakes or human failings.

    I was only here at the end of Ralph's reign, when he seemed to have been in a little too long. He has personality though - a folksy charm - love him or loath him, a highly talented politician, and he is honestly human too - with all the good and bad things that go with that.
    what klein did is paying off the debt while refusing to fix the house. yes, the bank says that you are debt free, but the contractor tells you it is going to cost you an equivalent of your mortgage to fix your house. is that being debt free? not only will our kids pay for Klein's mistakes, our grandchildren will likely pay for them too. (nice touch by the way with children )

    Klein certainly got lucky with the state of world economy and the price of oil and gas.

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    That's really all it was... LUCK!!! He ruined our infrastructure by not providing the finances to keep them from crumbling, he did absolutely nothing for post secondary education, and made a big stink about private healthcare. What did Klein leave for a legacy other than a pile of infrastructure debt? I'm pretty sure that's about all he will ever be remembered for, other than his drunken night at the homeless shelter.

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    It is Ralph's arrogance.

    Because his party had such large majorities, he felt he was not accountable to anyone. He would ram bills and policies into law with barely any debate in the legislature. He did not have to answer to questions of inappropriate spending, like the use of government airplanes or why some civil servant got a big pay raise.

    From an Edmonton perspective, the topper for me was when the election board stripped Edmonton of two ridings and gave Calgary two additional ridings.

    Also as mentioned during his tenure as premier, a monkey could have balanced the budget and erased the debt with all of the oil revenue Alberta was raking in.

    This time let's make the PCs suffer.

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    The only positive thing about Klein is that he was better than Getty.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    the deregulation of utilities is another multi-billion dollar scandal that hasn't exploded in PC's faces yet simply because they can continue to cover it up with "subsidies" from money that they were so fortunate to get from the rise of oil and gas costs
    You are right on Grish, that is the absolute biggest scam. Using our tax money to subsidize private companies and we're supposed to be excited when we see a "refund" on our gas bill because natural gas prices are over a certain price.

    The soviet union had terrific natural wealth, but did not go through an economic boom that resulted in wealth for the masses
    Apples to oranges, I'm afraid. Had Canada been forced into free-for-all free market with state owned resources handed to private hands for a song and a dance, I think we'd look pretty much the same as Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66
    This time let's make the PCs suffer.
    Uh huh.

    The PC's won't be the ones suffering. It will be you me and everyone else as the province goes to hell in a handbasket if the Liberals or NDP get into power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66
    It is Ralph's arrogance.

    Because his party had such large majorities, he felt he was not accountable to anyone. He would ram bills and policies into law with barely any debate in the legislature. He did not have to answer to questions of inappropriate spending, like the use of government airplanes or why some civil servant got a big pay raise.

    From an Edmonton perspective, the topper for me was when the election board stripped Edmonton of two ridings and gave Calgary two additional ridings.

    Also as mentioned during his tenure as premier, a monkey could have balanced the budget and erased the debt with all of the oil revenue Alberta was raking in.

    r

    This time let's make the PCs suffer.
    Ralph was clearly a dictator who cared for no ones opinion but his own.
    As far as honest was concerned didn't he (or his wife matters not I'm sure he knew about) get caught with their hand in the cookie jar over a sweet stock market tip. It's time this party payed it's debt to the people of the Province;send a message vote in another party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peeved
    It's time this party payed it's debt to the people of the Province;send a message vote in another party.
    So the issues/platforms don't make a diff to your decision-making process? You'd rather fight old ghosts as opposed to vote on the current issues presented?

    Okely dokely.

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    Ralph Klien was histories greatest monster.....
    well maybe not but he wasnt as good as everyone makes him out to be. i wasnt aware that being a crazy drunk was a positive thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by soycd
    Quote Originally Posted by peeved
    It's time this party payed it's debt to the people of the Province;send a message vote in another party.
    So the issues/platforms don't make a diff to your decision-making process? You'd rather fight old ghosts as opposed to vote on the current issues presented?

    Okely dokely.
    No, you raise a good point. Ralph Klein is not fighting this election. His riding has already been won by the Liberals , and now we have a new crew, so we can stop debating about the Klein era.

    We now have Mr. Stelmach, who voted for all Ralph's ideas. When it comes to his own ideas, Ed Stelmach on his own came up with the idea of switching the passing lane to the right side to balance out the wear and tear on our highways.
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    Each of them have their agendas and we are the bottom of that agenda, except of course at election time when the promises and money flow like diaorrhea.

    Grish summed up Ralph pretty well, but even with those negative characteristics the good people of this province repeatedly voted him in. That is disturbing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soycd
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66
    This time let's make the PCs suffer.
    Uh huh.

    The PC's won't be the ones suffering. It will be you me and everyone else as the province goes to hell in a handbasket if the Liberals or NDP get into power.
    (Later soycd wrote)...
    So the issues/platforms don't make a diff to your decision-making process? You'd rather fight old ghosts as opposed to vote on the current issues presented?

    Okely dokely.
    Huh? You mention others "rather fighting old ghosts" in your latest post yet you regard the Libs and NDP as some kind of National Energy Policy/Communist-loving parties of the 1970s?

    I think you have a bad case of "fighting old ghosts".

    The PC Party has held power in Alberta for the last 30+ years. They have done lots of good things over the years but like any party that has been in power for an extended long period of time, an "old boys club" culture forms. They are stagnant, uncreative, and inbreded. Just ask the federal Liberal Party.

    It's time for a change ©

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66
    Huh? You mention others "rather fighting old ghosts" in your latest post yet you regard the Libs and NDP as some kind of National Energy Policy/Communist-loving parties of the 1970s?
    I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that I am referencing Federal Liberal antics from yore.

    Read this pdf -> Alberta Liberal 2008 Platform

    I'm curious to see how all of these "promises" are going to be paid for. It's really scary.

    In addition to the spending, the Liberal's plan for controlling greenhouse gases is a joke and if implemented would have drastic economic results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soycd

    Read this pdf -> Alberta Liberal 2008 Platform

    I'm curious to see how all of these "promises" are going to be paid for. It's really scary.
    I don't know if all the promises are affordable, but if you can get past the "Liberal" name, there are some very attractive ideas in there, IMO, like working with cities to improve security on transit systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter
    ...working with cities to improve security on transit systems.
    Is that not a municipal responsibility?

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by soycd
    Is that not a municipal responsibility?
    Yes - which hasn't worked that well IMO. I think some help could be great, maybe there are some good synergies that Calgary and Edmonton can build on? Makes sense to me, especially given the province provides some funding for LRT expansion.

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    This is an old thread but now that former Premier Klein is in bad health I do wish him well in spite of political opinions. He may not of always been right but he was one of our more colorful Alberta politicians.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  33. #33

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    ^ He smoked all his life.. and not lightly... I hope he enjoys the healthcare system he created.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  34. #34

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    Sounds like he is not his old fighting self. By the sounds of it he has trouble remembering things. I have a feeling we will be seeing very little of him in the future.

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/colu.../16554671.html
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ He smoked all his life.. and not lightly... I hope he enjoys the healthcare system he created.
    On purely humanitarian gounds I wish him well, but it's a pretty safe bet that he won't be subject to the health system 'enjoyed' by the Martha's and Henry's of this province.
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ He smoked all his life.. and not lightly... I hope he enjoys the healthcare system he created.
    On purely humanitarian gounds I wish him well, but it's a pretty safe bet that he won't be subject to the health system 'enjoyed' by the Martha's and Henry's of this province.
    Why would you think that? Is he going to the USA for care?

    He'll get the same (very good) care as everybody else in this province would get.

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    ^ If you're, and I don't think you are, alluding to his "very good" care being available only in the US, I wonder if you might be missing my drift. It's not the care per se, it is "very good" here, but I'm thinking more of the speed of access to it for Klein; speed of access being the major drawback to the average joe.
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  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Sounds like he is not his old fighting self. By the sounds of it he has trouble remembering things. I have a feeling we will be seeing very little of him in the future.

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/colu.../16554671.html
    He hit the bottle again after he left politics.. I saw photos of him at some opening last week... He was red red red just like he used to get at the Petroleum Club
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  39. #39

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    ^Maybe he could not get his breath, you know, chocking for air.
    I am surprised if he has COPD he does not have a portable oxygen tank.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  40. #40

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    O no.. I saw red faced Ralph at the Petrolium Club more than once...

    I know the look.

    Normally I am way more compassionate. Sadly karma is going to catch up with you when you walk into a homeless shelter, throw money at people and yell at them in a drunken fit. That behavior is shameful to begin with, but even more so when your the premier of the F'n province.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Why would you think that? Is he going to the USA for care?

    He'll get the same (very good) care as everybody else in this province would get.
    Like it or not, knowing the right people in our health care system can indeed get you better service or quicker access to specialists and so on.

  42. #42

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    ^ its true
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    i think he is vindictive, rude person whose only talent was to get to and stay in power. he showed no compassion. he was a poor role model with his drinking and other inexcusable behaviour. he favoured Calgary, no question in my mind. That goes beyond him having been their mayor in the past. he effectively tried to shift power there through all sorts of policies, promotion, and financial aid. he does not understand (through policy at least) the value of education, the value of public health care and the value of social care. he admittedly run a populist government. his favourite expression about "seeing where the parade was going and getting in front of it" says it all. the man had no imagination and no plan for running the province beyond taking credit for things that were already taking place. he was a very poor representative of this province and I thank god he is no longer the premier. i am sure I have more to say, but I'll leave it to others for now.
    You did hit the nail on the head. What i don't understand is why at election time would people vote him in again and use the excuse that there was no other alternative.Why not give the alternative a try you can vote them out after one term.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by peeved View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    i think he is vindictive, rude person whose only talent was to get to and stay in power. he showed no compassion. he was a poor role model with his drinking and other inexcusable behaviour. he favoured Calgary, no question in my mind. That goes beyond him having been their mayor in the past. he effectively tried to shift power there through all sorts of policies, promotion, and financial aid. he does not understand (through policy at least) the value of education, the value of public health care and the value of social care. he admittedly run a populist government. his favourite expression about "seeing where the parade was going and getting in front of it" says it all. the man had no imagination and no plan for running the province beyond taking credit for things that were already taking place. he was a very poor representative of this province and I thank god he is no longer the premier. i am sure I have more to say, but I'll leave it to others for now.
    You did hit the nail on the head. What i don't understand is why at election time would people vote him in again and use the excuse that there was no other alternative.Why not give the alternative a try you can vote them out after one term.
    So let me get this right...

    You may not have liked ole Ralphie boy but its pretty obvious through history the majority of those voting did and while he may not have been popular in some circles opinions he was with the average person through as series of terms.

    I did not agree with everything Ralph did...not by a long shot...but he did a damn site better than the average politician through all but his last term.

    He campaigned on what he was going to do, then did what he said he was going to do...like it or not...something politicians at every level should try.

    Edit (added after): It wasn't till he achieved his stated goals and needed to look beyond that he got into trouble.

    For a long period it was what the voter wanted.

    Tom

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Why would you think that? Is he going to the USA for care?

    He'll get the same (very good) care as everybody else in this province would get.
    Like it or not, knowing the right people in our health care system can indeed get you better service or quicker access to specialists and so on.
    Marcel

    I don't disagree....but knowing the right people in ANY health care system can indeed get you better service.

    Tom

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    ^ That was exactly my point earlier. 'Who' you know in many fields will get you further than "What' you know. Always did, always will.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ That was exactly my point earlier. 'Who' you know in many fields will get you further than "What' you know. Always did, always will.
    I have to agree. We all get good health service but when it comes to waiting to see a specialist etc: I think Klein would get to see one faster than the average Joe. I think a specialist would re-jig his appointments to get him in faster.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I have to agree. We all get good health service but when it comes to waiting to see a specialist etc: I think Klein would get to see one faster than the average Joe. I think a specialist would re-jig his appointments to get him in faster.
    That being said, I had an MRI and did so in a matter of days while on WCB last spring. Average Joe who may need this service does wait while those on comp, myself included at the time, get the medical help required without the wait.Why? Because all companies pay a premium to WCB and if thier employee requires the treatment it is paid for out of the premiums paid out prior. Hockey players pay to get this done immediately as well. The 2 tier system is alive and well here in Alberta. And I'm not proud of it.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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    Always has been a two-tier system...we need to finally make it law in Canada to have Public/Private health care system like most are in Europe (Mostly Public with some Private). It would be much better then pretending it isn't a two tier system. The "upper tier" for lack of a better term can pay for the faster health care out of their own or insurance pocket then having all of us pay for jumping the line.

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  51. #51
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    ^ pretty hilarious poll
    Klein being number one reminds me how many old school dinosaurs there still are here. Klein got away with way more **** than Redford is currently now being lambasted for. what a joke.
    would like to see if this was a telephone poll, i wonder how people who still have landlines vote compared to people who dont

    Nenshi on there, seriously da ****? seriously talking to some you would think he is the second coming of Jesus.
    be offended! figure out why later...

  52. #52

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    I think there's a big disconnect in how Calgary and rural Alberta sees Klein and how Edmonton sees Klein.

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^ pretty hilarious poll
    Klein being number one reminds me how many old school dinosaurs there still are here. Klein got away with way more **** than Redford is currently now being lambasted for. what a joke.
    would like to see if this was a telephone poll, i wonder how people who still have landlines vote compared to people who dont

    Nenshi on there, seriously da ****? seriously talking to some you would think he is the second coming of Jesus.
    Thing is Ralph did not walk around with his nose in the air a pole up his rear carrying an barely concealed contempt for the people that voted him in. He was way more approachable and likeable then any self appointed queen who thought she ruled a kingdom.
    Last edited by Gemini; 01-08-2014 at 03:07 PM.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  54. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^. Klein got away with way more **** than Redford is currently now being lambasted for. what a joke.
    Not sure, Klein always seemed very social, there are stories of him drinking with junior staff and similar, I don't think he would have minded sharing a plane with lower government plebs at all.

    As to Nenshi, he is a premier or perhaps even pm in waiting, that very rare beast, a politician who stands up for his residents not special interest group donors.

  55. #55

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    I think Redford's attitude and the perceived sense of entitlement that she couldn't shed is what did her in.

  56. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmart81 View Post
    Always has been a two-tier system...we need to finally make it law in Canada to have Public/Private health care system like most are in Europe (Mostly Public with some Private). It would be much better then pretending it isn't a two tier system. The "upper tier" for lack of a better term can pay for the faster health care out of their own or insurance pocket then having all of us pay for jumping the line.
    How could you justify to a public funded family who's kid has just been diagnosed with leukemia that they will have to wait to see a doctor because the richer folks with private insurance will be taking up his time for the next 6 weeks. That's what will happen, doctors that work in the public sector will be offered all kinds of incentives to work private. It will put a strain on the public sector to start hiring new doctors. If there are not enough out there they then start having to look overseas for them. Surely we do not want to got the way of the US where their delivery of health care is a nightmare.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  57. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^. Klein got away with way more **** than Redford is currently now being lambasted for. what a joke.
    Not sure, Klein always seemed very social, there are stories of him drinking with junior staff and similar, I don't think he would have minded sharing a plane with lower government plebs at all.

    As to Nenshi, he is a premier or perhaps even pm in waiting, that very rare beast, a politician who stands up for his residents not special interest group donors.
    Klein was by no means perfect but he would be the first to admit it. He did come across as approachable and that we were in it together. Some people admired Klein in spite of his flaws, some might say they admired him because he always seemed to end up on top even after some pretty bad mistakes. Being likeable in politics can give a person a lot a latitude.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  58. #58
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    Sounds like a pole where people don't put a lot of thought into an answer. If someone phoned me and asked that I wouldn't have a quick answer for the question.

  59. #59

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    province wide poll?

    Theres nothing even remotely in those results that suggests that this was a poll reflecting Edmonton opinions at all.

    No mention either of how poll was done, what nature, ph door to door, online, whatever, was used.

    I'll say this as well something in the results is skewing some historical figures that wouldn't even be much known by people today. Did they conduct this poll by phoning homes when most people except the retired are at work?
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    I believe that the polls about Ralph is supported by most in Calgary but for Edmonton maybe less than 5 % who knows ??
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  61. #61

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    It would have been interested to see how that poll was worded, how it was set up.
    If it was worded in a way like:
    who do you admire the most - Peter Pocklington, Alison Redford or Ralph Klein, well you will get the drift of how it's going to go down.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  62. #62

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    This poll could be scientific if everybody in Ralphgary voted for Ralph and everybody in Edmonton was split (yet again.)



    In my opinion, I would rank Ralph solidly last among Alberta premiers of the past 50 years, and as far as I have researched, probably only ahead of fellow Calgarian Aberhart for the all time list.

    Yes below Calgarian Redford. Way below. Yes below Calgarian Lougheed, but only slightly. Below Calgarian Manning in most respects as well. (You see, I don't brush all Calgarians with the same stroke. Definitely below Med Hatter Strom.



    Think about it, what kind of genius does it take to neglect infrastructure and pay down debt when both construction and interest rates were at all-time lows?

    He had us walk into a boom looking like a third world country. The only thing we got out of the 2004-2008 boom was a start on his stupid potholes.

    Either one on the lowest rung of human intelligence or economic knowledge or financial knowledge or some combination of the above.

    Total failure. Like it was a goofball experiment in an economics simulator.



    Klein era architecture can be entered into our history now with it's signature pieces:

    - The thing on the front of the Milner Library
    - Commonwealth Stadium's Tony-Romaesque boxes
    - that silver carbuncle growing off the side of Cardinal's masterpiece
    - Downtown Staples
    - Hall D

    Emblematic. Fitting. Should each be renamed for him sometime before each being torn down.



    And his other shennanigans:

    - comical and embarassing opposition to same sex marriage
    - stolen thesis for his "degree"
    - his ode to Pinnochet (not making this up)
    - Drunken belligerence outside the homeless shelter
    - stealing the Ruth Carse Dance Company from it's home town to his hometown
    - dynamiting Calgary's hospital
    - introducing medicare fees
    - introducing VLTs
    - flinging open the doors on the mental institutions, thus creating the homeless boom.
    - Moving 2,500 more bureaucrats from the Capital to Calgary.
    - Laying off 16,000 mostly needed bureaucrats (nearly 10,000 in Edmonton, singlehandedly retarding our office tower construction by three decades)

    What can I say?

    Rob Ford didn't even make me flinch.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  63. #63
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    This may be the best place to live in the world. Ralph Klein was good at some things, and not so good at others. He was a product of his time, and cleaned up a lot of the BS that was going on before he got in - corruption that I saw first hand.

    And he wasn't a snob, that's for sure. He went out of his way to support me personally when I was just another nobody to just about everybody else. Maybe it's because I wasn't asking for money. What other politician would let a homeless street performer into his office for a meeting without an ounce of condescension?

    I will never say a bad word about Ralph Klein.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  64. #64

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    ^ Honestly and sincerely glad he did something right.

    Too bad his other actions created thousands of homeless from formerly safe mental patients, uprooted tens of thousands of hard-working and intelligent households and forced out of province, and caused likely hundreds of premature deaths with the deflating of the healthcare system.

    But no indeed, against those thousands of negatives, we have a plus one for Ralph.

    Still the worst premier of our time, regardless how he was one-on-one.

    No apologies for factual recounting in the big picture.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Not sure how Klein gets the blame for architecture you don't like.

  66. #66

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    The architecture is the lasting sign of the times.

    Not suggesting he was the architect in any of the cases, but that's one visible and lasting effect of any era.

    Contrast Lougheed era (Citadel, U of A stuff, Manulife) or Getty era (MacEwan Downtown) or Stelmach era (Muttart reno, RAM) you really can see the personalities of each reflected in the buildings.

    Especially Klein.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    "- comical and embarassing opposition to same sex marriage"

    Klein's apologists since then, including members of his staff, have tried to claim that Klein himself had no problem with same-sex marriage, but was pushed into oppositing it in 2000 by the record volume of angry phone-calls he was getting from outraged citizens.

    Which I am pretty skeptical about. Not because I think there are no homophobes in Alberta, but because I can't really see why they would phone up the PROVINCIAL government to complain about same-sex marriage, which was being advanced by court decisions elsewhere in Canada.

    Unless the callers were specifically asking the government to invoke Notwithstanding, which is indeed within the parameters of provincial power. But I don't see hundreds of Albertans all having the Notwithstanding Clause pop into their minds at the same time, independently of one another, and all getting the idea to call up the premier about it.

    I suspect any phone-bombing campaign was centrally orchestrated by Alberta Report or some allied institution, not a spontaneous uprising of individuals. And it's interesting that, after Klein conceded on same-sex marriage on 2005, the Tories actually won MORE seats in the legislature. Guess there was a mass migration of homophobes out of Alberta after 2000!

  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    This may be the best place to live in the world. Ralph Klein was good at some things, and not so good at others. He was a product of his time, and cleaned up a lot of the BS that was going on before he got in - corruption that I saw first hand.

    And he wasn't a snob, that's for sure. He went out of his way to support me personally when I was just another nobody to just about everybody else. Maybe it's because I wasn't asking for money. What other politician would let a homeless street performer into his office for a meeting without an ounce of condescension?

    I will never say a bad word about Ralph Klein.
    I'm sure all the homeless people at a shelter felt the same way..

    You obviously caught Ralph on a good day. Anecdotal story meaning very little in why people supported this man. Really its the race to the lowest common denominator that results in support to such half wits as Ralph Klein, Rob Ford. Rather than being leaders with informed vision these luminaries offer up a visage of the neighbor down the block with the garage parties and the coolers full of beer on ice. The narrative message always being this is just one of the guys. Apparently for some a politician is deemed trustworthy if they appear to be just like others.

    I think the results, and that these guys can be the worst polititicians ever, and still be well liked speaks volumes about the lack of objectivity.
    These clowns benefit from unconditional regard which doesn't change. With only the reason why being more mysterious.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-08-2014 at 11:35 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  69. #69

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    ^You say 'the neighbor down the block with the garage parties and coolers full of beer and ice' like that's a bad thing. Is he/she any different than the university educated long time alcoholic that goes home and beats his wife but seems to manage to keep it all hushed up. I get the impression you are implying Klein/Ford and people like them are trailer trash and below you. The air of respectability and wholesomeness a person gives off does not always add up to them being an upstanding person. A polished persona, a hand stitched suit, well manicured with a fabulous haircut, great teeth, a fabulous education, people like that don't always make good politicians either.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^You say 'the neighbor down the block with the garage parties and coolers full of beer and ice' like that's a bad thing. Is he/she any different than the university educated long time alcoholic that goes home and beats his wife but seems to manage to keep it all hushed up. I get the impression you are implying Klein/Ford and people like them are trailer trash and below you. The air of respectability and wholesomeness a person gives off does not always add up to them being an upstanding person. A polished persona, a hand stitched suit, well manicured with a fabulous haircut, great teeth, a fabulous education, people like that don't always make good politicians either.
    Maybe a person without any appropriate education shouldn't be in a position of leading a province of millions of people as Premier.

    Is this beneath me? That's not relevant to the discussion.

    Did Klein have the requisite background to make informed competent decisions in running an economic engine of the country? That's very relevant.



    ps I don't wear suits..well hardly ever..
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-08-2014 at 12:35 PM.
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    "Maybe a person without any appropriate education shouldn't be in a position of leading a province of millions of people as Premier."

    Yeah, but you know, since you also mentioned Rob Ford, I will point out that his main opponent on the left, George Smitherman, did not even graduate from high school. But that didn't stop him from getting himself generally accepted as a suitable candidate for liberals and leftists, largely because his persona generally fit the kind that progressives tend to like.

  72. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    This poll could be scientific if everybody in Ralphgary voted for Ralph and everybody in Edmonton was split (yet again.)




    And his other shennanigans:

    - comical and embarassing opposition to same sex marriage
    - stolen thesis for his "degree"
    - his ode to Pinnochet (not making this up)
    - Drunken belligerence outside the homeless shelter
    - stealing the Ruth Carse Dance Company from it's home town to his hometown
    - dynamiting Calgary's hospital
    - introducing medicare fees
    - introducing VLTs
    - flinging open the doors on the mental institutions, thus creating the homeless boom.
    - Moving 2,500 more bureaucrats from the Capital to Calgary.
    - Laying off 16,000 mostly needed bureaucrats (nearly 10,000 in Edmonton, singlehandedly retarding our office tower construction by three decades)

    What can I say?

    Rob Ford didn't even make me flinch.
    Let's not forget "Shoot, shovel and shut-up" which managed to take the mad cow crisis and make it even worse. I was working in las Vegas at the time and Smith and Smith & Wollensky was having an Alberta Beef promotion. Needless to say, the connection was made and they got tarred with the Klein brush. In talking to a friend of mine who worked there, apparently the anger from those comments went all the way to head office and they swore off Alberta beef. Not just for the duration, for all time. Not sure if they've changed their minds but Klein's comments were a big part of it. If the government is advocating a cover up, what else haven't they told us about?

    But, Ralph was beloved because he was "folksy". So what if he threw a briefing book at a page who was just doing her job. He'll have a beer with anyone.

  73. #73
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    Throw in electricity deregulation under his watch which so far has not helped consumers at all.
    be offended! figure out why later...

  74. #74

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    You didn't actually believe him when he promised that, did you?

  75. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    You didn't actually believe him when he promised that, did you?
    I still wonder what the backroom deal payback for that was.

    Even Klein didn't believe deregulation would help consumers and as noted didn't sign up for the same energy contracts he was helping to dupe consumers on. A little inconvenient truth.

    Did anybody really believe this was going to be to consumers benefit?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    "Maybe a person without any appropriate education shouldn't be in a position of leading a province of millions of people as Premier."
    Well, Redford is educated and look at how that ended up. But yeah, some things I liked about Klein and some things I didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    "Maybe a person without any appropriate education shouldn't be in a position of leading a province of millions of people as Premier."
    Well, Redford is educated and look at how that ended up. But yeah, some things I liked about Klein and some things I didn't.
    While it is important to have a lot of people in government with higher education, it is not an indispensable prerequisite that the premier himself does, as long as he has lawyers, economists etc around to offer advice.

    Steve Jobs didn't spend any appreciable amount of time in postsecondary, much less get a degree. But he was still able to found and run a highly successful company. And of course, that company runs partly on the talents of people with law, commerce, and engineering degrees.

  78. #78

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    I suspect it was closer to incompetent, deluded and petty advisors, but perhaps had he had better education he would have been able to identify that? I don't know, but regardless what was behind his ridiculously bad decision making, he's gone and we're all still paying for it.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  79. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    "Maybe a person without any appropriate education shouldn't be in a position of leading a province of millions of people as Premier."
    Well, Redford is educated and look at how that ended up. But yeah, some things I liked about Klein and some things I didn't.
    While it is important to have a lot of people in government with higher education, it is not an indispensable prerequisite that the premier himself does, as long as he has lawyers, economists etc around to offer advice.

    Steve Jobs didn't spend any appreciable amount of time in postsecondary, much less get a degree. But he was still able to found and run a highly successful company. And of course, that company runs partly on the talents of people with law, commerce, and engineering degrees.
    Except Klein was belligerent enough to assume he had requisite knowledge and vision on any subject and was not inclined to think otherwise. Cue up any speech and the self righteousness and rancor spit out of the microphone. That this guy was so full of his own opinion was discerned in any 10second oratory.

    As far as advisors Klein surrounded himself with expected hangers on that shared his *vision*
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    "Maybe a person without any appropriate education shouldn't be in a position of leading a province of millions of people as Premier."
    Well, Redford is educated and look at how that ended up. But yeah, some things I liked about Klein and some things I didn't.
    While it is important to have a lot of people in government with higher education, it is not an indispensable prerequisite that the premier himself does, as long as he has lawyers, economists etc around to offer advice.

    Steve Jobs didn't spend any appreciable amount of time in postsecondary, much less get a degree. But he was still able to found and run a highly successful company. And of course, that company runs partly on the talents of people with law, commerce, and engineering degrees.
    Except Klein was belligerent enough to assume he had requisite knowledge and vision on any subject and was not inclined to think otherwise. Cue up any speech and the self righteousness and rancor spit out of the microphone. That this guy was so full of his own opinion was discerned in any 10second oratory.

    As far as advisors Klein surrounded himself with expected hangers on that shared his *vision*
    Yes, but the fact remains that among those hangers-on, both the ones who defended the policies and the ones who implemented them, would have been lots of people with university degrees.

    Sir Roger Douglas, the New Zealander who crafted the template for the Klein Revolution and was hired by Klein as a consultant, had a degree from the University of Auckland. And, of course, the Chicago School, where the whole ideological shebang originated, is affiliated with a university.

    So, no. You could just as easily have had the same general policies put into place by an erudite, martini-sipping MBA as a beer-swilling hoser. Let's not forget, it was originally not Klein, but rather Laurence Decore LL.B, who promised to inflict "massive and brutal cuts" on Alberta.

  81. #81

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    Fair comment.

    How about enlightened and open minded as prerequisites then?

    Education isn't what it was either. U of A particularly being more entrenched in elitist economics. Not as surprising that more of our illustrious educated have different world views then might be the case decades ago when different winds blew and different world values were espoused.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Fair comment.

    How about enlightened and open minded as prerequisites then?
    Definitely on the same page there.

    And I agree with you that prevailing winds, be they academic or economic(depending how you view the horse/cart relationship) are really the prime mover.

  83. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    "Maybe a person without any appropriate education shouldn't be in a position of leading a province of millions of people as Premier."
    Well, Redford is educated and look at how that ended up. But yeah, some things I liked about Klein and some things I didn't.
    While it is important to have a lot of people in government with higher education, it is not an indispensable prerequisite that the premier himself does, as long as he has lawyers, economists etc around to offer advice.

    Steve Jobs didn't spend any appreciable amount of time in postsecondary, much less get a degree. But he was still able to found and run a highly successful company. And of course, that company runs partly on the talents of people with law, commerce, and engineering degrees.
    Except Klein was belligerent enough to assume he had requisite knowledge and vision on any subject and was not inclined to think otherwise. Cue up any speech and the self righteousness and rancor spit out of the microphone. That this guy was so full of his own opinion was discerned in any 10second oratory.

    As far as advisors Klein surrounded himself with expected hangers on that shared his *vision*
    Yes, but the fact remains that among those hangers-on, both the ones who defended the policies and the ones who implemented them, would have been lots of people with university degrees.

    Sir Roger Douglas, the New Zealander who crafted the template for the Klein Revolution and was hired by Klein as a consultant, had a degree from the University of Auckland. And, of course, the Chicago School, where the whole ideological shebang originated, is affiliated with a university.

    So, no. You could just as easily have had the same general policies put into place by an erudite, martini-sipping MBA as a beer-swilling hoser. Let's not forget, it was originally not Klein, but rather Laurence Decore LL.B, who promised to inflict "massive and brutal cuts" on Alberta.
    Yes, a whole lot of educated elitism and historical revisionism going on here. Plus the "I told ya so's" by those that didn't even vote for the 'Progressive' Conservatives in the first place and weren't socially, politically or 'academically' skilled enough to convince their friends, neighbours, relatives to not vote for that party.

    As for Klein's education, wasn't he a mayor of a fair to middling Canadian city for a while and a reporter covering politics before that? Name a university professor that has done well for his constituency? (Actually, I'd expect that there should be some but I can't think of any. (Trudeau? Don't even think of it.)

    We're talking eight plus years ago yet people forget how even more recently some of the world's best educated financial minds nearly drove the world economy into a 1930s style Great Depression.
    Last edited by KC; 03-08-2014 at 05:41 PM.

  84. #84

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    To me, Ralph Klein is reminds me of any four letter expletive you can think of.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  85. #85

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    Ralph Klein

    We have a plan, we have a plan. The plan was to cut, cut and more cutting until something broke. Then fix what is broke.

    Would you run your car like that? Should you manage a province like that?


    Monument to the Klein Revolution.


    The Calgary General Hospital was demolished as a result of provincial government policy in the mid-1990s, and its services transferred to the nearby Peter Lougheed Centre.

    Amid all the closures and rationalizations, the Calgary General is unique in two respects. It is the biggest North American hospital ever to shut down and have its functions, equipment, staff and patients integrated into existing hospitals, and its closure leaves Calgary as the only large city in Canada without a downtown emergency department.

    The demolition was controversial in the wake of continued health care demands in Calgary. Proponents of the demolition argued that the facility was aged and unable to provide efficient service for the money required to operate it, "but the decision left Calgary without an emergency department downtown and destroyed a "state of the art" facility that would (10 years later) be very much in demand".

    The hospital comprised numerous buildings constructed over an extended period of time beginning in 1910. In total, seven buildings over three stories in height and 84,000 m2 in area were imploded using ~2300 kg of explosives.

    The hospital building was demolished by implosion of October 4, 1998.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 04-08-2014 at 07:43 AM.
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  86. #86

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    ^If you think the Federal building cost a lot to renovate, that 1910 hospital would have cost a lot more. My understanding of modern hospitals, is that unless they are built with modern movable wall technology (e.g. DIRTT walls), they basically become obsolete in about 30-40 years, its cheaper to knock them down and rebuild as they age. To make any renovation is almost impossible, because of the drywall dust and mess it creates in wards. A hospital that old, had to be pulled down, just like the Misericordia will have to be.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-08-2014 at 08:06 AM.

  87. #87

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    Not all of it was from 1910, only a small portion if you read the reference. Most of the hospital was built in the early 1950's. We were told that the entire hospital was no longer needed and there were no plans to renovate or rebuild on that site. They could have torn down a portion and began building a new hospital rather than blowing up the whole site.

    The information that we were given was at least misguided, at worst, a political stunt to show how well Klein was cleaning up the health care system and they did not plan for the problems they created.

    The South Health Campus has 2,400 full-time equivalent staff, approximately 180 physicians, 269 inpatient beds, 11 operating rooms and will serve 200,000 outpatient visits and perform 2,500 births every year.

    The hospital contains just over 250 beds. It includes a 24 hours emergency department, an intensive care unit (ICU), as well as day surgery units.

    The building was developed by Alberta Infrastructure, and the first phase was built at a cost of $1.31 billion. The entire South Health Campus is expected to open in 2017 it is expected to have 642 beds and the capacity to handle 800,000 ambulatory visits per year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Health_Campus
    Calgary still does not have a major downtown hospital
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  88. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Calgary still does not have a major downtown hospital
    The UofC and Peter Loughead are minutes from downtown, and there is a large medical center in the beltline which has emergency:





    http://2.beltline.ca/community/socia...-health-centre

    I'm not a fan of the new hospital, but renovating that old one would have cost a lot more, and in a location already covered by hospitals.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-08-2014 at 08:57 AM.

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    Apologies for the thread necro, but this Herald opinion piece from Feb 2014 showed up in my Facebook news feed since it still resonates today

    Acuna: Klein’s policies got us into this mess
    http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/col...into-this-mess
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  90. #90

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    ^we all know the story, it was tough for government workers and unions when Klein decided we should run a balanced budget. It's much more popular for those sectors to spend away future generations cash.

  91. #91
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    ^^ You have to link the text right out of the article, otherwise you'll get a response from Moahunter like the one above clearly demonstrating that he didn't open it.

  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    ^^ You have to link the text right out of the article, otherwise you'll get a response from Moahunter like the one above clearly demonstrating that he didn't open it.
    Really? Ha, well you carry on believing that Klein was evil and created an "infrastructure deficit" and is responsible for all problems today, for I do note the article is written by a political scientist (not an economist) working for an institute of a university that is funded by the government, who of course, wouldn't like to see their salary cut (like people in the the private sector face, and are unfortunately facing now, when a company spends more than it earns).

  93. #93
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    Same ol' pigshit.

    Top_Dawg read the first few lines.

    And immediately he recognized the tone.

    Parkland Institute.

    Yup.

    Sure enough.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    ^^ You have to link the text right out of the article, otherwise you'll get a response from Moahunter like the one above clearly demonstrating that he didn't open it.
    Really? Ha, well you carry on believing that Klein was evil and created an "infrastructure deficit" and is responsible for all problems today, for I do note the article is written by a political scientist (not an economist) working for an institute of a university that is funded by the government, who of course, wouldn't like to see their salary cut (like people in the the private sector face, and are unfortunately facing now, when a company spends more than it earns).

    - Sold assets at a loss to create the illusion of a balanced budget

    - Eliminated revenue generating programs/services

    - Created unsustainable taxation regime to appease the lemmings

    - Maintained massive corporate subsidy structure that could have balanced the budget alone if eliminated

    - Irreparably damaged the public service by cutting things without a plan / based on people he personally didn't like ("You gave me a briefing that makes me look bad? Entire branch cut." yes, it was this bad)

    - Let the education and health care systems fall behind by 20 years, requiring far more money spent long term


    But let's hear your mental gymnastics goal post moving routine. Anything to make your "fiscally conservative" icon maintain his ill-deserved reputation.

  95. #95
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    Blah, blah, blah.

    Top_Dawg loves it how the mere mention of King Ralph makes all the wingnuts squeal like li'l piggies on Ol' Mac's farm.

    And ' irreparably damaged the public service ' ?



    Are you fuqn kidding Top_Dawg ?

    Since Klein left office the public service has swollen exponentially, has become more bloated, more overpaid, and more abjectly useless than ever before.

    Holy *****.

  96. #96

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    Bingo Top Dawg. And when the next government comes in, and reverses what Notley has done (let the civil service grow even more, even though the revenue no longer supports such extravagance, not that it ever did the last decade), we are going to hear whining about how evil the leader is for the next dozen years from the looney left about the next supposed infrastructure deficit (which miraculously always supposedly occurs when dollars spent is less than dollars earned). Most of the province gets it though, including much of Edmonton where people who don't work for government are feeling the pain, outside some of the elites in the Parkland Institute and elsewhere, in their government funded ivory towers.
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-08-2016 at 10:47 AM.

  97. #97

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    Third worst premier in our history, after would-be dictator Aberhart, and Brownlee, who got Alberta on a wiki page with the Nazis.

    Homeless boom, eclipsed by our own student-Norway, godfather of generation pothole.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Blah, blah, blah.

    Top_Dawg loves it how the mere mention of King Ralph makes all the wingnuts squeal like li'l piggies on Ol' Mac's farm.

    And ' irreparably damaged the public service ' ?



    Are you fuqn kidding Top_Dawg ?

    Since Klein left office the public service has swollen exponentially, has become more bloated, more overpaid, and more abjectly useless than ever before.

    Holy *****.
    Bingo Top Dawg. And when the next government comes in, and reverses what Notley has done (let the civil service grow even more, even though the revenue no longer supports such extravagance, not that it ever did the last decade), we are going to hear whining about how evil the leader is for the next dozen years from the looney left about the next supposed infrastructure deficit (which miraculously always supposedly occurs when dollars spent is less than dollars earned). Most of the province gets it though, including much of Edmonton where people who don't work for government are feeling the pain, outside some of the elites in the Parkland Institute and elsewhere, in their government funded ivory towers.


    The poor disenfranchised wanna-be conservatives will do or say anything to protect the image of their holy dear leader his worship king ralph. The cognitive dissonance is radiating like a thousand suns. The discomfort would be infectious if it weren't so hilarious.

    Here's a "how to pretend to be conservative in Alberta" 101 crash course: give out $1000 in cash, the lemmings will never question you again.
    Last edited by Jaerdo; 02-08-2016 at 11:16 AM.

  99. #99

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    Ralph Klein was a great premier. He will forever be demonized by the left, though.

  100. #100

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    ^Agreed, if he wasn't demonized, if he hadn't made the type of hard decisions Notley today, and the post Klein PC Premiers, were too scared to ever do (saying yes is much easier than saying no when its other peoples money you are spending), he wouldn't be a great premier.
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-08-2016 at 11:27 AM.

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