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Thread: South LRT | Century Park to Ellerslie Rd | Planning/Discussion

  1. #401
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    All else being equal, LRT lines to the west end and NW and E must remain the higher priorities over this extension. Getting the LRT system to other parts of the city has to come first. Plus optics - can't continue the notion that the northside gets no investment from the city, which I suspect is likely a factor in the southward sprawl. If the south extension can be funded at the same time as these other projects, then do it.
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    Definitely agree that the Valley line all the way to the west end should be the top priority, but I don't personally see the NW or east lines happening before this. The city has already spent the money to do the planning and preliminary engineering work for the Century Park to Ellerslie extension, whereas the NW and east remain very concept. Not to mention the political issue of potentially getting St. Alberta & Strathcona County to chip in for those lines.

    Considering it's basically shovel-ready, and that the Ellerslie park & ride is starting construction this summer, this seems like the easy low hanging fruit to build after the west-end.

  3. #403
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    City looking at extending Capital line all the way to 41 avenue SW.
    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1129293
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    I think Leduc County and the City of Leduc might also be interested in LRT, given the recent growth. There could be potential stops at Nisku, the International Airport and around Discovery Way in Leduc.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  5. #405

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    Great idea. Get it down there before the area fills up so you can make transit an option from day one. Once people get used to having to drive everywhere you then face an uphill battle to get them to consider transit.

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    Council holds off on report to combine 2 LRT legs into 1 in southwest Edmonton

    The hold up comes down to provincial land at Ellerslie road. The two quarter sections, equal to about 320 acres, is a one-mile gap in what would be a continuous line from Century Park LRT station to the city boundary. That section of provincially owned land, where it is proposed a hospital will be located, does not have any preliminary planning done, said Nat Alampi, the city’s director of LRT infrastructure delivery.
    http://globalnews.ca/news/3472502/council-holds-off-on-report-to-combine-2-lrt-legs-into-1-in-southwest-edmonton/
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    Aren't they digging a basement/sub-basement (perhaps underground parkade) for the hospital anyway? Seems like they could do an EPCOR and combine a tunnel under the hospital have a station directly connected to the hospital, easy access for patients, doctors, nurses, no additional land needed. And compared to Royal Alex or Health Sciences the public is better served.

  8. #408

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    ^I agree. Hopefully the province and city can cooperate on this. They have a blank slate to work with, a chance to do things right. No silly at-grade crossings where vehicles (including ambulances) need access.

  9. #409

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    For security reasons I'm not sure they'd want a train traveling right under a hospital.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  10. #410

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    Are there an conceptual plans for this extension? I expect them to elevate the line from Century Park, over 23rd avenue, continue to be elevated until they cross AHD TUC and continue to be elevated for the first station south of AHD?

    Please don't tell me they are considering an at-grade crossing at 23rd avenue and 111 st. Please no.

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    The plan is to take it under 23ave and come up on the west side of 111st.

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    I think if Yellowhead Trail has railway crossings, I can't see why that LRT bridge is needed on Henday.
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    Thanks. Must be the longest stretch of track between stations.

    The other wrench in this is the 127th Street interchange..which was not in that video rendering

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    Just as much security risk as EPCOR. When they expanded the Westminster Station for the Jubilee line they integrated it with newly constructed Portcullis House which has government offices immediately above.

  16. #416

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Thanks. Must be the longest stretch of track between stations.

    The other wrench in this is the 127th Street interchange..which was not in that video rendering

    source: http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ure-priorities

  17. #417

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    If they do combine both legs, they should investigate moving the park and ride to the terminus station. The current spot on Ellerslie will end up being filled up by Edmonton residents who choose to drive to the LRT instead of using the bus, much like Century Park is now. Park and ride's primary focus should be for people who don't have transit options.

  18. #418

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    Fix the bus system first... maybe? higher frequency, less milk runs, more direct routing.

  19. #419

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    Do you mean making the existing system more efficient, economical and effective with some simple route changes and improved transit service for users? Nah, can't do that.

    The COE does not consider any transit proposal like that, unless it meets six standard criteria

    - must cost over $100 million, preferably over $1 Billion
    - must take more than 5 years to complete
    - must screw up every intersection along the route
    - must only improve trip time by 1 to 2 minutes for 20% of users
    - must not result in any net change in trip mode
    - must not upset Transit Union staff
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  20. #420

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    Those Macewan folks are going to crap a brick if the city replaces their forest with an LRT maintenance facility.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  21. #421

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Those Macewan folks are going to crap a brick if the city replaces their forest with an LRT maintenance facility.
    Another LRT maintenance facility???

    At this rate, all of Edmonton will just be LRT lines and Transit facilities...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  22. #422

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Do you mean making the existing system more efficient, economical and effective with some simple route changes and improved transit service for users? Nah, can't do that.

    The COE does not consider any transit proposal like that, unless it meets six standard criteria

    - must cost over $100 million, preferably over $1 Billion
    - must take more than 5 years to complete
    - must screw up every intersection along the route
    - must only improve trip time by 1 to 2 minutes for 20% of users
    - must not result in any net change in trip mode
    - must not upset Transit Union staff
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...uggests-report

  23. #423

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Those Macewan folks are going to crap a brick if the city replaces their forest with an LRT maintenance facility.
    Another LRT maintenance facility???

    At this rate, all of Edmonton will just be LRT lines and Transit facilities...
    This will be only the 2nd one for the high floor system. The other facility being built is to service the new low floor line.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  24. #424

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    Just checked my watch, as most people do when they are waiting for the bus to show up..

    According to my watch and your link, ETS is planning to modernize their routes at half past 30 years late...
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  25. #425

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Those Macewan folks are going to crap a brick if the city replaces their forest with an LRT maintenance facility.
    Another LRT maintenance facility???

    At this rate, all of Edmonton will just be LRT lines and Transit facilities...
    This will be only the 2nd one for the high floor system. The other facility being built is to service the new low floor line.
    Take the NE leg to Clairview and there is one COE maintenance yard after another. I know they are not all transit related but holy cow are there yards along the route and they are adding a huge new bus barn along the NE line as well.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Fix the bus system first... maybe? higher frequency, less milk runs, more direct routing.
    A sprawling, low density, car dependent city has trouble creating an efficient, reliable, and frequent transit network?! Well colour me surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Just checked my watch, as most people do when they are waiting for the bus to show up..

    According to my watch and your link, ETS is planning to modernize their routes at half past 30 years late...
    Actually most transit riders would track the bus in real time before leaving for their stop so they don't have to check their watches wondering when the bus will show up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Just checked my watch, as most people do when they are waiting for the bus to show up..

    According to my watch and your link, ETS is planning to modernize their routes at half past 30 years late...
    Actually most transit riders would track the bus in real time before leaving for their stop so they don't have to check their watches wondering when the bus will show up.
    I suspect PRT doesn't actually take transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Just checked my watch, as most people do when they are waiting for the bus to show up..

    According to my watch and your link, ETS is planning to modernize their routes at half past 30 years late...
    Actually most transit riders would track the bus in real time before leaving for their stop so they don't have to check their watches wondering when the bus will show up.
    Well not if you have no control of your transfer.

  30. #430
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    ^Transfers can add some complication to be sure.

    But for most people the most annoying feature of the system is the infrequent local bus that takes us from our home to a transit centre or LRT station. From there more options exist. Being able to track buses in real time using the Transit App on smartphones, or ETS's Real Time Map on desktops or laptops, largely takes the guesswork out of that uncertain first or last ride to and from transit centres or LRT stations.
    Last edited by East McCauley; 26-05-2017 at 11:54 AM.

  31. #431

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    Knowing when your bus is coming does not make it arrive faster while it in meanders on long milk runs, on low frequency service or caught in traffic without signal priority.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Those Macewan folks are going to crap a brick if the city replaces their forest with an LRT maintenance facility.
    I'm not sure that that forested area is going to be destroyed. Anything I've seen shows any LRT facilities to be on the west side of 127th - apart from where the line crosses 127th within about 120 metres from the eastbound lanes of AHD. There's a 40-metre swath already cleared at that point.
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  33. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Knowing when your bus is coming does not make it arrive faster while it in meanders on long milk runs, on low frequency service or caught in traffic without signal priority.
    No, but it does allow me to stay in my house, coffee shop, shelter, etc when it is -30 outside, and/or allow me to do other tasks, instead of mindlessly waiting at the bus stop. For someone so enlightened on transit, you sure do miss the point a lot of the time.

    EastMcCauley is correct that one you hit a bigger hub, there are usually a lot more options in terms of transfers. With that said, every system could be better, from Edmonton to NYC. Larger systems you will never really have much control over transfers.

  34. #434

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    All the real-time tracking really does is potentially allow for some of the inconvenience & loss of productivity inherent with taking transit in Edmonton to be reclaimed. It does nothing to mitigate the poor network design, the ridiculous cost, nor any of the other multitude of flaws that makes up ETS. Tracking just makes their inability to hold to a schedule less detrimental (but more burdensome) to their patrons.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  35. #435

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    i think the fact that almost all the cities Park and Rides are full, is a good sign people are willing to give LRT a chance. But if you take this away and make people depend only on bus service, I can see people driving instead.

  36. #436

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Fix the bus system first... maybe? higher frequency, less milk runs, more direct routing.
    A sprawling, low density, car dependent city has trouble creating an efficient, reliable, and frequent transit network?! Well colour me surprised.
    By your definitation, what would you consider most cities in the plains? Edmonton is fairly dense comparing to places like Omaha, Houston, or Phoenix, and many other locals that actually deserve the title of sprawling, low density car dependant.

  37. #437

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Just checked my watch, as most people do when they are waiting for the bus to show up..

    According to my watch and your link, ETS is planning to modernize their routes at half past 30 years late...
    Actually most transit riders would track the bus in real time before leaving for their stop so they don't have to check their watches wondering when the bus will show up.
    The works well for going to work. Not much you can do coming home though.

    My wife for example: Catches train from downtown to Century Park at 4:25, bus leaves at 4:25 before she can get to it, next bus doesn't come till 4:55. She waits 30 minutes at the transit station.

    On the way to work: She knows the bus comes at 6:47. She can watch the bus in real time if needed. Bus arrives at Century Park at 7:01. LRT comes every 5 minutes and there is always one waiting. No wasted 30 minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Fix the bus system first... maybe? higher frequency, less milk runs, more direct routing.
    A sprawling, low density, car dependent city has trouble creating an efficient, reliable, and frequent transit network?! Well colour me surprised.
    By your definitation, what would you consider most cities in the plains? Edmonton is fairly dense comparing to places like Omaha, Houston, or Phoenix, and many other locals that actually deserve the title of sprawling, low density car dependant.
    I mean yeah, I can't think of a single non sprawling prairie city in Canada or the US. Sure Houston and those other cities sprawl more, and their transit ridership reflects that (4% in Houston), but that doesn't mean Edmonton isn't the same style of city just because it's a little more controlled.

  39. #439

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    What city in north america doesn't sprawl? Christ, even New York sprawls far far beyond Manhattan.

  40. #440
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    Edmonton sprawl mostly took place from the 1950s to the 1990s. Neighbourhoods developed in the 2000s and before the Second World War are actually quite dense and have more of a housing mix. That includes the neighbourhoods in Heritage Valley to which the South LRT would be extended.

    It's also why all of us should get onside with efforts to encourage density in established neighbourhoods that were built during the period of sprawl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    What city in north america doesn't sprawl? Christ, even New York sprawls far far beyond Manhattan.
    Uh huh and guess what, coincidentally those dense cores such as Manhattan, or even Vancouver proper (4x more dense than Edmonton) have much better transit than their suburbs. Part of it has to do with that being where the jobs are located, but most of it has to do with the amount of people you can service for the same amount of infrastructure.

  42. #442

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    It's about design, not merely mix and density.
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  43. #443
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    City recruiting Community Advisors for Capital Line South LRT Expansion
    August 23, 2017

    The City of Edmonton is accepting member-at-large applications for the Capital Line South LRT Extension Community Advisory Committee (CAC). Citizens interested in becoming a Capital Line South LRT Extension CAC community-at-large member are encouraged to apply online before September 18, 2017.

    There will be up to two community-at-large CAC members. The CAC will have an additional 10 members as appointed by the surrounding community leagues, South Edmonton Business Association, local schools, and William Lutsky YMCA.

    The City is committed to providing information, encouraging dialogue, and engaging citizens throughout the development of the LRT network. As such, the CAC will work with the project’s public engagement lead to represent and unite a cross-section of the affected neighbourhoods in order to:

    Build and maintain relationships and trust
    Promote and support community engagement opportunities
    Facilitate information-sharing and dialogue
    Support the identification of issues, opportunities, and concerns
    Seek opportunities to minimize and mitigate impacts related to preliminary design, and future detailed design and construction

    Project background

    City Council approved the concept plan for the Capital Line South LRT Extension in July 2008, and preliminary engineering for the Century Park to Ellerslie Road portion of the line was completed in 2010. The City began updating the preliminary design in June 2017 after the Federal Government announced funding to support further development of the LRT Network Plan. This work is scheduled to be completed in fall 2018 and will ensure the design reflects all current standards, conditions, and opportunities. No timeline or funding for construction has been confirmed. Thousands of Edmontonians have been engaged through meetings, presentations, open houses, and online information since the onset of the project.

    For more information on the Capital Line South LRT Extension project, visit edmonton.ca/capitalsw

    Media contacts:

    Beth Padfield
    Communications Advisor
    LRT Delivery
    780-496-5010
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  44. #444
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    Yep, we got the letter last week and a city website survey link on this.
    https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...t-history.aspx
    Last edited by howie; 23-08-2017 at 02:26 PM.
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    And thousands will respond to the survey, and be ignored

  46. #446
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    ^ Oh quite probably. But if you don't say anything . . .
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  47. #447
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    So they want a level crossing at Ellerslie road. Brilliant.
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  48. #448

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    Ellerslie Road is a prime location to do a cut and cover. thx coe.

  49. #449

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    It says they are examining the feasibility of crossings at major roadways. Ellerslie being one of them.
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  50. #450

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    Also some documents imply / render a cut under 23 Ave.
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  51. #451
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    The company I work for often does some COE surveys, some over the phone others by mail. We're closed during the summer months.

    This may sound like a Captain obvious type question but who commissioned this survey?
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  52. #452

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    The city posted a video of the future alignment on its youtube page:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP_QGJ_3spE
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    The City of Edmonton never learns from their mistakes.
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  54. #454
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    And what mistake is that?
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    In this case, it's examining the traffic flow on Ellerslie Road about 10 years from now.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    The video does not show how it will get across Ellerslie. It does show cutting off 127st from AHD.
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  57. #457

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    127st will be removed anyways, in favour of a new road and interchange at 135 street.

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    So no provision for a stop at the future hospital? Seems short-sighted.

  59. #459

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    how did you arrive at that conclusion? The hospital is going to be right across the street from Ellersile station: https://globalnews.ca/news/3488485/a...west-edmonton/
    Last edited by Medwards; 01-12-2017 at 09:37 AM.

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    Not quite. Global's 'map' shows that, but take a drive south on 127th and you'll see a site sign almost a kilometre south of the Ellerslie Road intersection.
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  61. #461

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    Okay, but the hospital is going in the corner of ellersile and 127th street. I dont care where the sign is.

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    Maybe, maybe not. We'll see, I guess.
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  63. #463

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    The province owns the land at the corner - and owns it for about a km south of ellersile, it's earmarked for a hospital. The zoning also matches. Not sure how "we'll see" fits into anything.

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    k
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    How can you be so certain when the sign is so far south? The province owns all the land and they can put it anywhere they wish. Until they decide on the exact location there is no point on the city planning access.
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  66. #466

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    Every single thing I've read indicates that its going in that corner.

    Straight from the alberta.ca website:

    The new hospital will be built near the corner of Ellerslie Road and 127 Street SW. This 320-acre site was chosen because it can accommodate a health campus. Its proximity to Anthony Henday Drive and the Queen Elizabeth II highway makes it easily accessible. Current LRT planning includes expansion to the site before 2040.
    https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?x...55BD270A593CF1

    Sounds like they are working with the city and LRT planners...

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    How close is close? Why not put the sign right on the corner if that is where it is going to go instead of one kilometre south?

  68. #468

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    How close is close? Why not put the sign right on the corner if that is where it is going to go instead of one kilometre south?
    The city is planning a park and ride stop north of Ellerslie Rd and another stop near 20th avenue S. It would make sense to put the hospital near the 20th ave stop so that visitors and staff don't have to cross Ellerslie road to get to the train. The sign for the hospital is in that area now.

    The conceptual plan is at https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD...ity_Limits.pdf

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    I think this route should be seriously considered as the next route if West Edmonton shows no interest in wanting the LRT.
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    There are six or seven gas pipelines that run NE/SW directly under that SW corner of Ellerslie and 127th. Doubt that they'll plonk a hospital right on top of those, regardless of what Medwards may have seen, read or believes. It's going farther south of that intersection.
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    There are six or seven gas pipelines that run NE/SW directly under that SW corner of Ellerslie and 127th. Doubt that they'll plonk a hospital right on top of those, regardless of what Medwards may have seen, read or believes. It's going farther south of that intersection.
    This hospital is being roughly modelled on the South Campus Hospital in SE Calgary if you have seen it you will understand that the Campus requires a Massive amount of Land, this hospital is massive and can be seen for dozens of km around Calgary,i don't think I've seen a structure this huge anywhere else in Alberta, so if this is the model,and rumour Mills say ours will be even bigger by almost 30% then a lot of land will be needed for the hospital itself as well as the accompanying Support buildings, specialists, medical supplies, housing etc ...just my two cents ...that's a lot of acreage and it will be somewhere in the half section of land

    K
    Last edited by KenL2; 24-01-2018 at 11:18 PM.

  72. #472
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    ^ Yes, and there's more than ample space for all of that, and more, where the display hoarding sits on the SW corner of 20 Ave SW and 127 St.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  73. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    There are six or seven gas pipelines that run NE/SW directly under that SW corner of Ellerslie and 127th. Doubt that they'll plonk a hospital right on top of those, regardless of what Medwards may have seen, read or believes. It's going farther south of that intersection.
    Yes, but still in the same area. The province owns all that land. I never said directly on the corner, but near it, also, 127th street is gone in the future.

  74. #474

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    Howie, no one has seen any renderings of the project, me or you, however logic says that building will be nowhere near where some government knob decided to put up a sign, more likely it will be deeper to the west centered on the land and somewhat in alignment with the new 135 street that replaces 127 as well as the route of the LRT, most likely very close to or part of the station which we know is just south of Ellerslie and beside the yet to be built 135 street

  75. #475

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenL2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    There are six or seven gas pipelines that run NE/SW directly under that SW corner of Ellerslie and 127th. Doubt that they'll plonk a hospital right on top of those, regardless of what Medwards may have seen, read or believes. It's going farther south of that intersection.
    This hospital is being roughly modelled on the South Campus Hospital in SE Calgary if you have seen it you will understand that the Campus requires a Massive amount of Land, this hospital is massive and can be seen for dozens of km around Calgary,i don't think I've seen a structure this huge anywhere else in Alberta, so if this is the model,and rumour Mills say ours will be even bigger by almost 30% then a lot of land will be needed for the hospital itself as well as the accompanying Support buildings, specialists, medical supplies, housing etc ...just my two cents ...that's a lot of acreage and it will be somewhere in the half section of land

    K
    I've seen that hospital in Calgary and it's HUGE...and you say the one in Edmonton will be 30% bigger according to rumors? That's unreal.

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