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Thread: Anthony Henday Drive | South West Leg | Completed

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topher
    ... and honestly 60 coming off the QE2 is just ridiculous.
    No kidding. There's no reason that shouldn't be 90 km/h like Gateway is just south of the interchange. The 24/7 60 km/h zone on the Gateway side is also nuts. It should only be 60 km/h when there's actual construction going on and 80 km/h the rest of the time. When the construction is done it should be 90 km/h right up to the lights at 19 Av.

  2. #102
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    Has anyone driven by the interchange where Henday meets Highway 14? MASSIVE!

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    Here's a question:

    Whoever is engaged in operating the photo radar equipment, should they also have equipment that counts vehicles?

    The reason: If tickets are issued at a rate of whatever percentage of total traffic (depending on area of course), I'm sure there are metrics that could be used to determine if the demarcations for speed limits are actually good enough.

    I'm not sure about many other drivers out there, but there are many instances on roads where I'm unsure what the actual speed limit is. It's not difficult to gauge what the approximate limit is as a function of other drivers, but this is not really the best way to go about it. This is likely also the reason for obtaining an erroneous photo radar ticket every now and again.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by egranado
    Has anyone driven by the interchange where Henday meets Highway 14? MASSIVE!
    http://www.accessroadsedmonton.ca/pd...hdjune2005.pdf


    but compared it to this giant http://www.accessroadsedmonton.ca/pdf/ct-031207.pdf

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat
    I drove through that area yesterday and was thinking "Why lights?"

    The answer is probably because it's the cheapest way to go. There's lots of room for a cloverleaf at those intersctions, so probably some time in the distant future the Henday will become a true freeway, as it should be, but I won't be holding my breath until it happens.
    I wish we would just build things right in the first place while the committment is there.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat
    I drove through that area yesterday and was thinking "Why lights?"

    The answer is probably because it's the cheapest way to go. There's lots of room for a cloverleaf at those intersctions, so probably some time in the distant future the Henday will become a true freeway, as it should be, but I won't be holding my breath until it happens.
    The real answer is development of urban sprawl.

    For example, the Cameron Heights neighborhood was started after the SW AHD construction was underway, the neightborhood grew faster than expected, and traffic lights had to be added because the overpass funding wasn't there. And interestingly enough, the Cameron Heights developers in question are the same geniuses responsible for South Edmonton Common.

  7. #107

    Default AHD SW - Open When?

    Hi gang

    Exciting month to be in Edmonton. Part West Regional road is slated to open today I believe, but when is AHD SW opening (Its supposed to open late October). There should be some firm date? I plan on making my contribution to global warming by doing a couple of loops on AHD (with of course, the assistance of yellowhead for the north part)

  8. #108

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    I plan to do my part to Global Warming by driving the West Regional Road! I had no idea it was open now. Thanks for the heads up!

  9. #109
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    Default Re: AHD SW - Open When?

    Quote Originally Posted by feepa
    Hi gang

    Exciting month to be in Edmonton. Part West Regional road is slated to open today I believe, but when is AHD SW opening (Its supposed to open late October). There should be some firm date? I plan on making my contribution to global warming by doing a couple of loops on AHD (with of course, the assistance of yellowhead for the north part)
    You mean SE right?
    I thought I heard late Oct?

    Edit: I just called Access Roads Edmonton and she said probably third week of Oct but exact date not known yet.

  10. #110

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    I do mean SE.

    Once again, posting in a hurry bites me where it counts.

  11. #111

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    ^ Premature posting has consequences...

  12. #112
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    yahhhhhh... when we hit 40.................................

  13. #113
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    I'll have to check again... but...
    A far as I know, the road is more or less ready to go.
    Except they still need to test some things first, and, apparently a requirement of opening day is that there is good weather.
    Sounds strange... but I work with someones who's husband is very involved with the AHD construction.

  14. #114

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    I've now heard Oct 23rd is the official date, but I don't have a source to back it up.
    I think you are correct, but I have heard that it may open earlier.

  15. #115

    Default South Henday non stop road construction.

    Driving from Millwoods to the Westend as much as I do I can't help but notice that theres hardly been a time since this whole friggin freeway opened that you're not staring at one series of road construction zones after another.

    First of all Bridge construction. Correct me if you will but this bridge is 3 bloody years old. What on earth is with all the construction?

    Then the many areas where they're doing something on a brand new freeway but we're not quite sure what.

    Finally the nonstop repaving of certain sections of the Henday and particularly southeast Henday that has only been open since late October.

    Really if theres one stretch of roadway in Edmonton where a driver would like to think there would be very little road construction its a brand new freeway.

    Kind of frustrating.

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    you think you got it bad, well i gotta use 111st everyday. Now that is insane! but it will be well worth it.

  17. #117
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    Isn't all this contruction/repair business indicative of governments with too much money and very little idea of how to spend it efficiently. Fer crying out loud, do the job properly in the first place. Talk about unable to organize a p*ss up in a brewery.

    And on the subject of repaving, let's put a layer of asphalt over top of the concrete sections, shall we? The noise factor in these areas seriously needs addressing. Oh, and while I'm at it, isn't "freeway" a misnomer? Freeways don't have traffic lights.

    OMG, I'm turning into Bob Layton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Then the many areas where they're doing something on a brand new freeway but I'm not quite sure what.
    Fixed.

    Who told you that the project was completed in its entirety? Just because motorists are using the road doesn't imply that all the construction is complete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Fer crying out loud, do the job properly in the first place.
    Waiting for you to provide examples that the project wasn't done properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    The noise factor in these areas seriously needs addressing.


    Use the dial on the left. Problem easily fixed.

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    Most of the approaches to the overpasses or bridged sections have compacted a little which results in the need for capping. When you have approaches that sit waiting for bridge construction for years like stoney and the other southern access' or approaches this should not happen as natural settling and compaction occur. (this compaction or settling may be partially enhanced by all the swearing from the passing, frustrated motorists !)

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Isn't all this contruction/repair business indicative of governments with too much money and very little idea of how to spend it efficiently.
    I thought, seeing as how this road was built as P3, that the contractor (not the government) was responsible for all ongoing maintenance for X number of years?

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    Only from just east of QE2 to highway 14 is a P3 and subject to that part of the contract some of this will be "under warrantee" as it were, however if my memory is right the contract does have the maintaince for a larger portion perhaps pretty much all of AHD, I'll have to double check the document, its quite large. They do get paid a certain dollar figure to keep the road in a certain condition which is in fact fairly well specified
    As well there is a schedule of upgrading, at certain either volume benchmarks or year benchmarks certain contruction will take place to expand bridges from 2 to 4 lanes, or the road from 4 to 6 and then 8 within the 20 year period.

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by soycd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Then the many areas where they're doing something on a brand new freeway but I'm not quite sure what.
    Fixed.

    Who told you that the project was completed in its entirety? Just because motorists are using the road doesn't imply that all the construction is complete.
    Most of the sections where this has been occurring have been open from 2-3 yrs.

    Is there a finite time in my lifetime when they will be "complete"?

  24. #124
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    There is a sign in the parking lot of the nursery on the corner of Calgary trail and Ellerslie road that says "Open during construction since 1999"
    I guess we will have to get used to it.

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    There is a sign in the parking lot of the nursery on the corner of Calgary trail and Ellerslie road that says "Open during construction since 1999"
    I guess we will have to get used to it.
    lol

    Perfect.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by soycd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Fer crying out loud, do the job properly in the first place.
    Waiting for you to provide examples that the project wasn't done properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    The noise factor in these areas seriously needs addressing.


    Use the dial on the left. Problem easily fixed.
    I don't know about you, but from my perspective, a road as new as the Henday shouldn't be needing repairs already. That would suggest, to me anyway, that something was not done properly in the first place.

    The noise factor to which I refer has nothing to do with in-car entertainment systems, and may I suggest that yours seems a little dated, but rather with the concrete sections of pavement which generate more tire noise than the sections covered with asphalt. Now, before you ask for examples to be provided, if you, as I have done, were to use your own ears, then I'm quite confident that you would reach the same conclusion. That is, if you wanted to.

    Blueline, who seems to be more knowledgable on this subject then either of us, puts forward what seems to me to be a credible explanation. Thanks, Blueline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    I don't know about you, but from my perspective, a road as new as the Henday shouldn't be needing repairs already. That would suggest, to me anyway, that something was not done properly in the first place.
    Perhaps you could go into more details as to what repairs you are referring to. If, in fact, they are repairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ....if you, as I have done, were to use your own ears, then I'm quite confident that you would reach the same conclusion. That is, if you wanted to.
    I have travelled that section on more than one occasion. The audible difference isn't very much. IMO, it's a rather nit-picky observation. If the noise bothers you so, then turn up the radio.

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Blueline, who seems to be more knowledgable on this subject then either of us...
    Since you know nothing about me, or my background, I'll ignore that comment. Please, in the future, refrain from assuming I know as little as you do when it comes to roadbuilding.

  28. #128

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    ^ Soycd, dont you know everyone is an expert in everything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    ^ Soycd, dont you know everyone is an expert in everything?
    Silly me!

    *L*

  30. #130
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    About the only "failure" I can see is the Blackmud Creek culvert, unfortunately because of soil conditions there were a lot of problems, which is probably why its asphalt rather then concrete, as concrete would crack and asphalt has a bit more give. This of course isn't in the P3 section though. It does make you wonder if building a bridge their would have been a better idea, but hindsight is always 20/20

    Concrete tends to be a bit noisier then asphalt anyways, but the worst I remember was a stretch of I-5 between Seattle and Bellingham it was so bumpy that on more then one time I pulled over to the side because I was sure I had a flat tire. Hopefully the concrete here lasts better but with our more extreme weather I sort of doubt it.

  31. #131

    Default Henday noise driving some to tears

    http://edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton...83546-sun.html


    Lowering the speed of a freeway from 90km/h to 70km/h. Good luck with that. Might as well petition to have the AHD closed entirely.

    If the city is already putting up signs and patrolling and ticketing for driving on the shoulder, can enforcing the retarder brake law be much harder?!?

    I guess the more negative press this gets, the more pressure there is on the province to 'decide' what to use that extra 2.5 billion surplus for...


    "The bottom line is people who live near the Henday need to be able to have quality of life," said west-end Coun. Karen Leibovici.

    Phil Shewchuk, vice-president of the Wedgewood Homeowners Association, said he wants to see noise reduction structures like walls or berms built to dampen some of the sounds coming off the Henday.
    "It's like living next to the runway at the Edmonton International Airport and I'm not joking about that. It's that loud," Shewchuk said.

    Maybe homeowners should research their purchases a little more before buying/building next to a freeway. (or a Future Ring Road right of way that has been on city planning maps for more than 30 years)

    I am fine with building noise reduction structures, as long as the homeowners shoulder some of the cost. You want improvements, you pay for them. I bought 3 blocks away from yellowhead well knowing in advance of the potential noise, and the increase that could come over time with traffic increases...
    Last edited by blainehamilton; 28-08-2008 at 03:46 PM.

  32. #132
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    Wah wah wah, the ring road was on the plans since the 1970s long before these people were there, they knew or should have known it was going there. Pretty soon she's going to waste more time on this and another cat bylaw.

    You can call Counciller Karen at 780-496-8120 or email her at [email protected]

    As well Simon Osler from 630 CHED posted a similar story
    http://www.630ched.com/Channels/Reg/...spx?ID=1023006
    Last edited by sundance; 28-08-2008 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Additional information added

  33. #133

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    I beleive this goes along with the pro of living close ot the Henday for easy city access, the con of course being the noise. Suck it up and put in some ear plugs.

    Surprised the city is recommended a study of "Quiet Tires", and then change out all city vehicles, at a small fortune...

  34. #134

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    In fairness to the residents, it is the fault of the province for not building overpasses at the outset. This is what is being complained about, all those trucks slowing down / speeding up. IMO it was stupid to have traffic lights at these locations, not only a danger, but a horribly noisy one at that.

  35. #135
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    I still say that stupid motorcycles are responsible for much more noise pollution, and much more aggressive noise pollution in this city than irresponsible truckers.

    And Wedgewood is the Capital of stupid motorcycleland. Well...maybe it's not the Capital, but there's no shortage of rich old men with obnoxious toys there. So they don't get a lot of sympathy from me.

    But really, noise bylaw violations are endemic throughout the city. They need to be more heavily policed everywhere. But the people who chose to live next to a truckroute (and the first phase of AHD was built by the mid-90's) should be the lowest on the priority list.

  36. #136
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    recap the roadways with asphalt with a % of recycled rubber crumb. Noise levels drop dramatically , maintenance increases however

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    recap the roadways with asphalt with a % of recycled rubber crumb. Noise levels drop dramatically , maintenance increases however
    I live on a test area for this (SPR) - made a huge difference to noise levels. Mind you, I find with road noise, after a while you naturally block it out anyway. Might be different with an intersection on a high speed motorway though, the overpass will fix this one, they should just speed up building it.

  38. #138

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    This is off topic but I was in the westend today and came upon a three-way stop at 188 street and 69 avenue. This sounds nerdy, but I thought it was neat that a stub segment of 69 avenue exists to the west and the ROW is clear right to Henday.

    Being a curious nerd, I looked at google maps when I got home and noticed something similar at 189 street and 95 avenue. I also saw truncated roads at 88 avenue, 86a avenue, 83 avenue, 73a avenue, 72b avenue, 72a avenue, 72 avenue, 71 avenue, and 70 avenue. There are undeveloped sections at 190a street between 75 avenue and 74 avenue and 190b street between 71 avenue and 70 avenue.

    I guess the potential is there to build houses to "complete" the crescents ... but only if noise walls are built? Hmmmm.

  39. #139
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    I can understand why residents are frustrated, but the blame rests solely on them. I like how in the Edmonton Journal article today, residents said that the province said they would act only if the average daily noise polution was above 60DB, when in reality, the province stated it would only act if the average daily noise polution rose above 65DB. I agree with blainehamilton when he says that if residents want noise reduction walls or whatever they're called, then they should shoulder some of the cost. Otherwise, maybe they should have realized that a massive freeway was going to be their neighbor someday.

  40. #140

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    Location, Location, Location

    If you want quiet, move to the country but watch for those combines and tractors.

    If you found a cheap house in the city with good access to AHD, take your savings and buy earplugs

    If you want to live in a quiet neighbourhood in the city you better have deep pockets.

    Of the three options of quiet, good access or low cost you can only have two choices so which one will you sacrifice?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  41. #141
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    " This wide field behind my house is awesome. Whats a TUC? "

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    recap the roadways with asphalt with a % of recycled rubber crumb. Noise levels drop dramatically , maintenance increases however

    Drove on some autobahn's in Holland that were done with this, they were crazy quieter, highly highly recommend doing all roadways with this stuff dispite the costs.

    The problem with the South West section of the Henday is the concrete road way. It's much louder then asphalt. The whole section would need to be torn out and redone, not going to happen. Should take the maintenance cost savings and build some fences... not that will do me any good at the top of the hill.

    I live at the top of the Hill in Terwillegar Towne, and if the wind is blowing from the Southwest (happens often) a crazy amount of noise travels up the hill from the Henday, a good 2 2.5km away from the highway.


    TUC = Transit Utility Corridor, the question was asked on Sonic 102.9, and that's what the response was.

  43. #143

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    i agree Finnish the road. build the interchanges then there are no more breaking...

  44. #144
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    So, the road isn't going to get paved. The whole point of the concrete was to have a low maintenance road surface, so lets put that to bed.

    Buy ear plugs.

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    I've been sleeping with earplugs nearly every summer night since the SW Henday was completed. I believe it's the concrete surface that makes the difference, because I've never heard a freeway roar so loudly 24/7. I wouldn't say it ruins my life, but it's certainly a huge annoyance. The worst part is that I go running in Terwillegar Park 3 times / week (have for years), and the freeway is just as loud down there in the wilderness area. It's totally ruined the 'escape' aspect I loved about that park.

    I supposed it's nobody's fault but my own.... but you guys should go take a listen for yourself some night at 3AM. It really is much louder than the Whitemud or any other highway.

    edited to add: I think the city should create a berm, if not a noise wall. If you lived nearby, you'd understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark View Post
    I've been sleeping with earplugs nearly every summer night since the SW Henday was completed. I believe it's the concrete surface that makes the difference, because I've never heard a freeway roar so loudly 24/7. I wouldn't say it ruins my life, but it's certainly a huge annoyance. The worst part is that I go running in Terwillegar Park 3 times / week (have for years), and the freeway is just as loud down there in the wilderness area. It's totally ruined the 'escape' aspect I loved about that park.

    I supposed it's nobody's fault but my own.... but you guys should go take a listen for yourself some night at 3AM. It really is much louder than the Whitemud or any other highway.

    edited to add: I think the city should create a berm, if not a noise wall. If you lived nearby, you'd understand.
    We never said we didn't understand... Cause I'm sure most of us do. What we're saying is, you moved there knowing full well a freeway would be built, and the average daily noise DB level does not go over the limit imposed by the province back in 2001 (or whatever year it was). Residents in these neighborhoods should at least should part of the cost. Maybe $1,000 per household.

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    Well, the good thing is winter is coming soon and a lot of those motorcycles will be stored in a garage somewhere for a few months. Driving speeds will be reduced due to road conditions and I'm sure most people will leave their windows closed during the cold months. It should give those residents a brief rest from some of the noise. I agree that the overpasses should get built to help reduce breaking.

  48. #148
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    Mark I used to live by Stadium LRT station the bells for the road crossing on 112th Ave were annoying but I didn't expect the city to pay for anything, lived in Calder under one of the flight paths of the 737s, your road traffic would pale in comparison.

    I agree that the bridges would help somewhat with noise, certainly help with traffic, and remove the occasional boom of an accident

  49. #149
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    I think that there was a provincial government plan to build noise barriers if the noise levels became excessive. However, I think the long-term goal should be to complete these interchanges at locations like Lessard Road and 62 Avenue.

  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Wah wah wah, the ring road was on the plans since the 1970s long before these people were there, they knew or should have known it was going there. Pretty soon she's going to waste more time on this and another cat bylaw.

    You can call Counciller Karen at 780-496-8120 or email her at [email protected]

    As well Simon Osler from 630 CHED posted a similar story
    http://www.630ched.com/Channels/Reg/...spx?ID=1023006
    I bought my house in 88 in southeast Millwoods. Even at that time I had not heard about a ringroad in the immediate area. I had heard there was supposed to be LRT to the area and as close as 23ave/34st there was supposed to be an LRT station.

    I wanted LRT, we got the other. Can anybody link any info that this ringroad was planned with specific location in mind in the 70's?

    ftr I'm not personally that impacted as I am at least a mile away from Henday so no real vested interest here. I never bought next to a TUC

    Now to another theme I see commonly enough here. The "suck it up princess" why the hell did you move there theme?
    While I understand this thinking to a point what I don't comprehend is why residents in earshot of the nonstop noise created by Henday are expected to be neighbor to this without any of the barrier/soundberm provided in any other of the Edmonton areas freeway systems.

    This is not a distant highway its a ringroad built up very close to neighborhoods and as close as many interior neighborhoods that do have benefit of a berm.

    Why the double standard then?

    The mixed haphazard standards in this are at times incomprehensible. For example drive south on 50th street to approach Henday. For several blks before Henday 50th street has a high steel sound barrier on both sides except ironically as it approaches Henday where theres much more noise and no barriers in sight.
    Last edited by Replacement; 29-08-2008 at 02:29 AM.

  51. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I wanted LRT, we got the other. Can anybody link any info that this ringroad was planned with specific location in mind in the 70's?
    You have a point there - but is Millwoods a more desirable, or a less desirble, location, with the AHD? I am betting the answer, on the "whole", is "more desirable". That's life - with convenience comes some sacrifice. If you had received LRT, some people with a house right on the tracks would be having similar issues.

    As to different noise levels, and different noise repression devices in different places, I'm afraid it is always going to be like that, as it will always be an imperfect science depending on which way the wind blows. The time to raise a storm was before the AHD was built. Those communities that did a better job of that, will have better noise protection. Such is life. The best Millwoods can do now, if it is an issue, is to decide as a community whether or not the noise is worth paying the price to correct (be it trees, or some sort of wall).
    Last edited by moahunter; 29-08-2008 at 11:36 AM.

  52. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by LindseyT View Post
    " This wide field behind my house is awesome. Whats a TUC? "
    I burst out laughing when I read that. Don't want a highway or power lines built near your home? Don't buy next to a TUC.

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    I must say I am laughing too.

    Research when buying is king. Caveats can spring out of nowhere.

    If you're complaining about freeway noise, well, look in the mirror. You bought here.

  54. #154
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    You can find a significant amount of information here
    http://www.infrastructure.alberta.ca.../tucpolicy.pdf

  55. #155

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    Its the same story as someone who bought a house next to a commercial zoned property... and then complain when a superstore shows up there... "I thought it would be a parkland for ever" "nobody ever told me" "so what if the zoning has been there before my house was even built"

    I have no sympathy to those complaining about noise from the AHD... You knew or should've known (through your own due diligence) exactly what was going in there. The AHD TUC has been around since the early 70's at least...

  56. #156

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    Anybody can feel free to provide one link to a ring road, at present location, that was clearly planned in the 70's. Planned enough that those buying 30 yrs ago could make an informed decision.

    Which still doesn't answer the question of why no berms.

    Again ftr this is not my issue and overall I'm pleased to have AHD in vicinity and I'm not really impacted but I think theres some harsh criticism going on here.

    Its quite normal for people to check zoning in immediate vicinity and to be aware of the commercial or multi lot zoning next door or down the road. I'm less convinced the average buyer would be aware of every TUC that might impact them within a mile radius 30 yrs down the road..
    Last edited by Replacement; 29-08-2008 at 05:53 PM.

  57. #157

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    You could pay me to scan documents at the library, I'm game. If not, hit up the Stanley Milnar reference section. GOV - AB - TRANS I'm sure you'll find lots of references.

    the TUC has been widely known since the 70's. If anyone thinks that empty farm field behind there suburban house will stay that way forever, your only fooling yourself. Do your research, the truth is out there.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Anybody can feel free to provide one link to a ring road, at present location, that was clearly planned in the 70's. Planned enough that those buying 30 yrs ago could make an informed decision.
    I would assume SPIN2 has the dates for when the land for the corridor was registered. I think the dates are free.

    But it's offline at the moment.

  59. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    You could pay me to scan documents at the library, I'm game. If not, hit up the Stanley Milnar reference section. GOV - AB - TRANS I'm sure you'll find lots of references.

    the TUC has been widely known since the 70's. If anyone thinks that empty farm field behind there suburban house will stay that way forever, your only fooling yourself. Do your research, the truth is out there.
    Like I say I'm not impacted at all and I knew that the AHD area was a TUC and has been so delineated. Millwoods area is fairly loaded with TUCS.

    My due dilligence in 88 consisted of knowing my surrounding area for blks around was all single family dwellings and that LRT and a Mall were planned within walking distance and with no TUCS nearby.

    That was good enough for me.

    I was honestly not aware that this particular TUC where Henday is currently located was specifically earmarked. For all any average person knew without doing substantive research was that this was a utlilty or power corridor. One would not know from exploring the TUC which was only identified as a TUC and with typical possible uses listed.

    Theres obviously quite a lot of expert opinion on this board and people that are quite informed around these issues.

    But I will maintain that in typical real estate transaction with typical people and agents that about the extent of what gets discussed or considered in terms of neighborhood is immediate surrounding area and proximity to schools, transit, shopping and roads.

    I'll also point out that 70's due dilligence before such travesties as the "Love canal" housing research was much more relaxed and without assumption that parcels of land are being sold in the middle of a chemical dump, freeway off ramp, or at the wrong end of the shoreline..

    To some extent people in the thread are applying todays standards of due diligence to that which was commonly applied by people decades ago before internet, before compromising housing zoning was known and experienced, etc.

    In short there was more trust back then either right or wrong and pretty much an assumption you weren't being screwed over by agent, developer, city zoning, etc.

    Times have changed and significantly.
    Last edited by Replacement; 29-08-2008 at 05:12 PM.

  60. #160

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    Times haven't changed that much. Ask the questions, you get the answers. Assume that the field behind you will be more houses, and oops. Freeway.

    Sorry - that land has been a TUC for a very long time. A lot longer then 88.

  61. #161

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Times haven't changed that much
    Honestly how would you know? I am making a guess here that you are not much older than 30.

    Why am I bringing age up? As mentioned because prior to the 70's and quite a few scams people trusted buying a house on newly zoned parcels of land and subdivision. Subsequent to the 70's and 80's and numerous widescale scams the thinking on this would be different.

    Ask the questions, you get the answers.
    FTR as little as 3 yrs ago nobody could tell me which Henday intersecting streets would be connects vs flyovers and why. Quality information is not always forthcoming or planned that far, i.e. decades, in advance.

    Assume that the field behind you will be more houses, and oops. Freeway.
    I didn't assume and so was not impacted.

    Sorry - that land has been a TUC for a very long time. A lot longer then 88.
    But it was never marked "Freeway TUC" on easily assessible signage. Its also not clear from any information offered thus far that it was earmarked as specific "Freeway TUC"

    Instead of being delineated and clearly marked as a freeway TUC its just marked TUC all those years?

    Why?

    If its all planned as such what does it cost to properly inform residents with actual accurate signage on sight? Considering they all have TUC signs but usually only generic ones.
    Last edited by Replacement; 29-08-2008 at 05:40 PM.

  62. #162
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    Re: "The "suck it up princess" why the hell did you move there theme?"

    I think we should be a little more respectful of people's very real concerns here. They are certainly allowed to complain, and their opinions are valid. We don't have to agree, and maybe there's not much that can be done, but I have a problem being totally dismissive of their concerns.

    One day the shoe may be on the other foot.

    Let's look for solutions if we can, and be considerate.
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  63. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Re: "The "suck it up princess" why the hell did you move there theme?"

    I think we should be a little more respectful of people's very real concerns here. They are certainly allowed to complain, and their opinions are valid. We don't have to agree, and maybe there's not much that can be done, but I have a problem being totally dismissive of their concerns.

    One day the shoe may be on the other foot.

    Let's look for solutions if we can, and be considerate.
    Thanks. If people are paying attention I'm just in this thread as a devils advocate.

    But I can't imagine what someone that has been profoundly impacted would think reading this thread.

    Would they even bother to comment?

    Not exactly supportive, just saying.

  64. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Times haven't changed that much
    Honestly how would you know? I am making a guess here that you are not much older than 30.
    I don't really think my age matters. Information on the planning of the city has always been available. Do many people bother to really find out? Again, due diligence. I'm not going to buy property, especially in a new and developing part of the city/region/province not knowing what is going to happen with the empty surroundings near by. Will it be a school? a hospital? A shopping mall? a toxic waste site? a transportation and utility corridor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Why am I bringing age up? As mentioned because prior to the 70's and quite a few scams people trusted buying a house on newly zoned parcels of land and subdivision. Subsequent to the 70's and 80's and numerous widescale scams the thinking on this would be different.
    Scams or people failing to find out exactly what's going on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Ask the questions, you get the answers.
    FTR as little as 3 yrs ago nobody could tell me which Henday intersecting streets would be connects vs flyovers and why. Quality information is not always forthcoming or planned that far, i.e. decades, in advance.
    No, not all information is handed to you on a sliver platter, and certainly, it's not going to be spoon feed. But the PROVINCE clearly declared what the purpose, and where the Transportation and Utility Corridor was going to be, when the decision was made. The corridor and right of way included all the area presently used.

    Just like we see now, the province is outlining what will be the next corridor it will develop (the outer ring road). A plan that is 30 years in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Assume that the field behind you will be more houses, and oops. Freeway.
    I didn't assume and so was not impacted.

    Sorry - that land has been a TUC for a very long time. A lot longer then 88.
    But it was never marked "Freeway TUC" on easily assessible signage. Its also not clear from any information offered thus far that it was earmarked as specific "Freeway TUC"

    Instead of being delineated and clearly marked as a freeway TUC its just marked TUC all those years?

    Why?

    If its all planned as such what does it cost to properly inform residents with actual accurate signage on sight? Considering they all have TUC signs but usually only generic ones.
    I'm sorry that you, or who ever is affected by the noise, sight, smell, or feel of the TUC - which for the most part, was planned, and notice gave long before you were there failed to find out more information.

    You bought in 88. You obviously weren't around when this was planned. How could you say proper notice wasn't given?

    And those "TUC limit" signs you see near the TUC? those are new...

    In the past, there was a much more detailed sign, at or near all the major roads that crossed the "TUC"....

    Stay informed. Seek the information out. Due Dilligence. Come on now. Information has been available for a long long long time on the TUC, it's just a lot more convienent to get with the internet now.

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    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/610.htm

    The Transportation Utility Corridor (TUC) was originally planned around Alberta's two major cities in the late 1970s. During the 1980s and 1990s, the Province of Alberta purchased most of the lands required for the TUC.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I live right on 109st. You want noise? try living where I live and then complain about traffic noise hundreds of meters away.

  67. #167

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    A bit of misinformation in this thread so far. Heres some info from a May 9, 2000 City Council report that goes into quite a lot of depth on southwest Henday.


    Very specific in it is the mention of 60decibels being agreed as the point at which noise attenuation through say berms, walls would be looked at. Both the province and the city were said to be committed to this.

    The City of Edmonton’s Urban Traffic Noise Policy calls for traffic noise levels to be reduced to 60 dBA (24 hr ) wherever a roadway is being built or upgraded. The City’s Urban Traffic Noise Policy will be applied to this project.
    The Minister of Alberta Infrastructure, the Honorable Ed Stelmach, has committed to meeting the City’s policy by stating in a letter to concerned residents, that “the highway will be constructed to match the City of Edmonton’s noise policy, that is, a 24 hour 60 decibel level”.....
    A commitment was made to the public at the February public meetings that noise attenuation of some form would be provided at all locations exceeding the 60dBA threshold specified in the City’s policy. In addition, a commitment was made to carry out additional noise evaluations during the detailed design phases of the project to further assess noise attenuation, particularly at locations not reviewed during the planning phase.

    Also, although the RDA was planned and considered in mid 70's fine tuning and purchasing for the Henday TUC continued to be fine tuned long after that.

    For instance:

    In the mid 1980’s the Alberta government commissioned a number of studies which led to the identification of the specific roadway, power, pipeline, service and access corridors within the Restricted Development Area. Land not required for these primary uses were declared surplus and sold. The remaining lands were redesignated as the Transportation and Utility Corridor (TUC).
    The above reveals that by the mid 80's this was still in study stage and still identifying specific roadway..hmmm

    So how were home purchasers since the Early 70's supposed to know better?
    Last edited by Replacement; 29-08-2008 at 08:47 PM.

  68. #168

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    ^ Because the roadway still falls within the original planned TUC... which is alot wider then the current roadway itself. If you live near the right of way, you should know what's coming. If your lucky, it will be as far away from you as possible.

    I'm sorry if I seem a bit insensitive, but what do you expect? If anything, build noise protection, and build the overpasses, but please - noise? Noise is a fact of life in a city. I'm certainly not immune to it. I can hear a motorcycle ripping across the high level bridge right now... and I'm 4 blocks away from it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toe View Post
    The problem with the South West section of the Henday is the concrete road way. It's much louder then asphalt.
    With all due respect to PKS, there are ways of reducing the road noise of concrete road surfaces. By staggering the grooves (different placements of the tines when constructing the surface) one is able to reduce the road noise significantly without compromising safety. There was an excellent article about this very thing last month, or this month, in a road building trade mag. I'll try to find it and post it.

    Also, in France some years back, they built a road that when you travelled on it at a specific speed, you could hear a song being played by your tires on the rumbled/milled surface along the edge of the roadway. Spacing/depths of the milled rumble strip along the shoulder lane run across at a certain speed created the "music".

  70. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by soycd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Toe View Post
    The problem with the South West section of the Henday is the concrete road way. It's much louder then asphalt.
    With all due respect to PKS, there are ways of reducing the road noise of concrete road surfaces. By staggering the grooves (different placements of the tines when constructing the surface) one is able to reduce the road noise significantly without compromising safety. There was an excellent article about this very thing last month, or this month, in a road building trade mag. I'll try to find it and post it.

    Also, in France some years back, they built a road that when you travelled on it at a specific speed, you could hear a song being played by your tires on the rumbled/milled surface along the edge of the roadway. Spacing/depths of the milled rumble strip along the shoulder lane run across at a certain speed created the "music".
    Anything by Pink Floyd?

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    Haha, I laugh at those who complain about NOISE from any major road in Edmonton. I've just recently moved to Toronto from Edmonton and if you saw some of the proximities of homes to the ACTUAL 5-10 lane expressways here, also at 100km/h....then Edmonton would shutup and consider themselves lucky. Especially on the SW portion between Cameron Heights Rd & 87 Ave there is AMPLE distance between everything.

    I feel bad for people that live close to the 401/QEW here....however, the noise barriers are not too shabby.

    If ya wanna complain, complain about the lights and lack of structures...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    A(...)
    The above reveals that by the mid 80's this was still in study stage and still identifying specific roadway..hmmm

    So how were home purchasers since the Early 70's supposed to know better?
    Ok, so I drove that area one too many times for good and not so good reasons.

    In the 1970's, the din of MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and the roar of combines was the norm. Nary a house purchase in sight. The traffic was farmers and the odd drunk looking for a backroad home.

    Anyone buying then had a limo called a John Deere...or liked the country life.

    Those buildings aren't there anymore. Anything close to the Henday is so new it hurts. Anything close to the Henday knew this was planned or thought of. Sorry.
    Onward and upward

  73. #173

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    All one needs to do is look on the City Of Edmonton website for plan and land use studies for all developments old and new throughout the city.

    http://www.edmonton.ca/portal/server...ding/planning/

    Specifically from the news article the complainants are from Wedgewood which is in West Jasper Place South Area Structure Plan. The plan was approved September 24, 1979 and makes many many references to (at the time it was called) a parkway ring road.

    http://www.edmonton.ca/infraplan/con...solidation.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Anything by Pink Floyd?

    Requests?
    Hahahaha!

  75. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    A(...)
    The above reveals that by the mid 80's this was still in study stage and still identifying specific roadway..hmmm

    So how were home purchasers since the Early 70's supposed to know better?
    Ok, so I drove that area one too many times for good and not so good reasons.

    In the 1970's, the din of MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and the roar of combines was the norm. Nary a house purchase in sight. The traffic was farmers and the odd drunk looking for a backroad home.

    Anyone buying then had a limo called a John Deere...or liked the country life.

    Those buildings aren't there anymore. Anything close to the Henday is so new it hurts. Anything close to the Henday knew this was planned or thought of. Sorry.
    Speaking of Southwest Henday area you are correct. Very few houses were in the area in the 70's.

    Southeast is another matter.

    Quite a few of the houses one sees close to Henday were built and sold in Millwoods between 1976-79.

  76. #176

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    ^^ this is the plan from 71 for Millwoods...

    http://www.edmonton.ca/InfraPlan/Con...solidation.pdf

    May I refer you to page 7 in the pdf (as labeled in the pdf, not by adobe)

    Also note the 91st freeway, which might never happen... but that would be another freeway, right along side Millwoods....

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    You beat me to it...

    Replacement, I do understand that road noise, especially when you're used to quiet, would be upsetting. However, the point people are trying to make is that this ring road and the requisite highway has been around for nearly 2 generations.

    ...even if they never called it the Henday or TUC, as Medwards shows, there is lo and behold a highway.

    Complain about no sound barriers, OK. But, poor planning on "your" part does not constitute an emergency on "mine".
    Onward and upward

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    I do believe sound barriers should be added, but the expense should be shared with local residents.

  79. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    You beat me to it...

    Replacement, I do understand that road noise, especially when you're used to quiet, would be upsetting. However, the point people are trying to make is that this ring road and the requisite highway has been around for nearly 2 generations.

    ...even if they never called it the Henday or TUC, as Medwards shows, there is lo and behold a highway.

    Complain about no sound barriers, OK. But, poor planning on "your" part does not constitute an emergency on "mine".
    For the 5th time I've apparently needed to state it in the thread I am not personally impacted. No poor planning on my part. Love my house, love my neighborhood. Even better getting in and out with Henday.

    I'm over a mile from Henday and I would have to try hard to be bothered by the noise. I can hear it from my deck drinking a beer but the beer is fine and so is the wine

    Its not my issue. Devils advocate only.

    People much closer would be impacted. But they aren't talking here.

  80. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    ^^ this is the plan from 71 for Millwoods...

    http://www.edmonton.ca/InfraPlan/Con...solidation.pdf

    May I refer you to page 7 in the pdf (as labeled in the pdf, not by adobe)

    Also note the 91st freeway, which might never happen... but that would be another freeway, right along side Millwoods....
    Thanks for the information and digging. Its appreciated.

    I argued in this thread only out of interest and not personal impact.

    In anycase its been some interesting reading and I always enjoy being exposed to some detailed reading on some civic issues.

    Consider me more educated on this thanks to the thread and exchange.

    Heres a detailed sound study that may be of further interest. A pretty exhaustive and impressive study actually.

    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...udy_Report.pdf

    ps Its interesting that they built the steel wall soundberm all the way down 91st even though its not a freeway(although many drivers seem to think it is) in preperation for a freeway that never came and have not even considered one on Henday Southeast for some reason. I just find the haphazard application of noise attenuation interesting.
    Last edited by Replacement; 30-08-2008 at 02:40 PM.

  81. #181

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    ^ I think the reason there never planned for sound berms is because they never thought there would be lights.

    They really need to remove those lights for handful of reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    For the 5th time I've apparently needed to state it in the thread I am not personally impacted. No poor planning on my part. Love my house, love my neighborhood. Even better getting in and out with Henday.

    I'm over a mile from Henday and I would have to try hard to be bothered by the noise. I can hear it from my deck drinking a beer but the beer is fine and so is the wine

    Its not my issue. Devils advocate only.

    People much closer would be impacted. But they aren't talking here.

    I know you are not impacted....hence why I put the YOUR in quotes. Sorry if you thought I meant you personally. I was trying to be a generalist here...

    I sometimes hate the limitations of type...hence why I often want these discussions to spill out to the public realm...
    Last edited by RichardS; 30-08-2008 at 04:26 PM.
    Onward and upward

  83. #183

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    I think everyone needs to look at this link, it's basic but contains some good information.

    It also seems to suggest Noise attenuation is way more complex than putting up a wall, and that there may actually be nothing that can be done, due to prevailng winds, weather, type of traffic etc.

    Read on and ye shall see!!

    http://www.edmonton.ca/RoadsTraffic/...esentation.pdf

    PS for the people not quite understanding what a TUC is it is a TRANSPORTATION AND UTILITY CORRIDOR!!

    "... I found this great house in this little town called Leduc, we've been living here for 3 months and the noise from the planes is driving me crazy!! they should move that airport!!..."

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    Last edited by KenL; 30-08-2008 at 09:31 PM. Reason: effect
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    75th street is so fricken bad during rush hour, i take extra time and go to the 216. haha.

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    I live backing the Henday near the callingwood road intersection and noise isnt that loud nor annoying. Once you close your windows you can hardly hear anything except the louder vehicles and since Edmonton is a winter city, windows are closed most of the year. We get so used to the sound you do not notice it unless you listen for it. I think living next to a major road like 170st right next to your property is much noisier. Then again I never lived in wedgewood so I am not sure how much louder that concrete is.

    For some reason though I notice traffic noise is louder or travels farther in mornings than late afternoons. Is it something to do with air pressure at different times of the day?

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    i just realized i posted that in the wrong thread, haha

    and.. its a freeway.. really is there much more i can say.

    and DONT lower the speed limit, its already SOOOO difficult to go 90 NOW, it should be higher

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    So I was watching CTV Morning Live today, and the traffic chick was mentioning that this portion of the Henday was undergoing construction for widening, and the speed limit was down to 70.

    Are they finally going to make this stretch 3 lanes each way, like it probably should have been right from the start?

  88. #188

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    I haven't heard of any plans to widen it, though its needed pretty badly at rush hour.

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    AHD is a right bloody mish-mash. Two-lane, three-lane sections, asphalt sections, concrete sections. Building a brand new road from virtually scratch, the opportunity was there to do it right from the outset. Another dropped ball.
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  90. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    AHD is a right bloody mish-mash. Two-lane, three-lane sections, asphalt sections, concrete sections. Building a brand new road from virtually scratch, the opportunity was there to do it right from the outset. Another dropped ball.
    Don't forget the incredibly inconsistent ramps. At every single AHD entrance I don't know if I need to be in the left lane or the right lane to exit onto the freeway.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    I looked at the 3-year construction program
    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...20-%202016.pdf

    Saw this:

    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Actually the concrete sections make sense, costs more short term but because it lasts so much longer it saves money over its lifespan. They used asphalt over the Whitemud Creek culvert because of the compressibility of the soil, concrete would crack or the panels would heave unevenly. Asphalt can deform in a more smooth fashion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    AHD is a right bloody mish-mash. Two-lane, three-lane sections, asphalt sections, concrete sections. Building a brand new road from virtually scratch, the opportunity was there to do it right from the outset. Another dropped ball.
    Don't forget the incredibly inconsistent ramps. At every single AHD entrance I don't know if I need to be in the left lane or the right lane to exit onto the freeway.
    Yep. They're all so frustratingly different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Actually the concrete sections make sense, costs more short term but because it lasts so much longer it saves money over its lifespan. They used asphalt over the Whitemud Creek culvert because of the compressibility of the soil, concrete would crack or the panels would heave unevenly. Asphalt can deform in a more smooth fashion.
    I heard that's been a massive failure, hence why it wasn't done on any of the other sections. It was an experiment and the results are not good. The road won't last as long as they were expecting it to and it will take more maintenance than hoped. Not to mention the noise issues that people in the area have complained about. A friend who was a PM with PCL on that work told me this. He was the PM on one of the small bridges, Blackmud maybe.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 06-11-2013 at 02:00 PM.

  95. #195
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    There is absolutely no excuse that the SW Henday Westbound is an absolute parking lot between Gateway Blvd. and Terwillegar Dr. every day at rush hour. The province needs to be adding an additional 1 or 2 lanes like yesterday...


  96. #196

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    Half the problem with the above picture is that nobody in this city has any idea how to merge. People cutting in before others and then not allowing people in? People who slam on the brakes rather than zippering. Not letting people merge in (not leaving space or closing the available space). The alberta sheriffs could get this province out of debt writing up tickets here for poor driving habits

    An extra lane would be helpful though.

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Half the problem with the above picture is that nobody in this city has any idea how to merge. People cutting in before others and then not allowing people in? People who slam on the brakes rather than zippering. Not letting people merge in (not leaving space or closing the available space). The alberta sheriffs could get this province out of debt writing up tickets here for poor driving habits

    An extra lane would be helpful though.
    Except they'd be too concerned about people speeding...

    But yes definitely merging is a big part of the problem. I'd even suggest people who do not get up to freeway speed, then trying to merge, causes people to slow down to let them in, then it just causes a ripple effect down the line, and it eventually slows to a crawl. Another lane to the left would definitely help.

  98. #198
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    There are a couple problems
    1) People stop on the ramps, so they have to accelarate from 0 km/h to 100 which is a lot harder than 50-60 km/h to 100.
    2) People in the driving lanes do not let the merging traffic in. This is in fact illegal if you can reasonably allow the traffic in.

    Traffic Safety Act
    Division 11.51

    A person driving a vehicle on a highway where the highway is marked by a “merging traffic” sign near the intersection of another highway marked by a “merge” sign shall take all reasonable precautions to allow a merging vehicle to enter in safety onto the highway on which the merging is to take place.
    Another lane is needed, and more enforcement of other laws rather than just speeding, (distracted driving, undue care and attention, dangerous driving...)
    Last edited by sundance; 29-05-2014 at 08:34 AM.

  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Half the problem with the above picture is that nobody in this city has any idea how to merge. People cutting in before others and then not allowing people in? People who slam on the brakes rather than zippering. Not letting people merge in (not leaving space or closing the available space).

    An extra lane would be helpful though.
    so much this. i take this every day in the evening and its always the same. couple idiots come to a complete stop in the merge lane and basically **** everyone else over. its a chain effect.

    also USE THE ENTIRE MERGE LANE!
    be offended! figure out why later...

  100. #200

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