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Thread: Cycling Infrastructure | Discussion

  1. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I wonder what it will be like it -25..oh, I wont be living here, so I wont care.
    That's the spirit!
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  2. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Concur. Traffic adjustments, especially left turns on 104st and 103st are needing attention. I have already sent a note about this as we have had some feedback from those coming out of parkades.
    I just don't understand why this is a surprise to anyone. It's certainly not to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I haven't noticed much difference, personally. Although I do think that the streets with bike lanes should have periods of "no walk" at the start of the green light sequence. Because most of those streets are now down to a single lane, and with the frequency of people turning either left or right being blocked by pedestrian movement, it's going to make those intersections extremely inefficient for vehicles. It's not uncommon for only a single vehicle to get through on a green light sequence now, because they were turning left or right and could only make that turn on the yellow.

    And before someone chimes in with a THINK OF THE PEDESTRIANS post, the fact is that Edmonton does not have a single pedestrian crossing point that is volume constrained. Having people wander across the intersection for the entire green sequence results in extremely inefficient traffic flow if there's any significant amount of turning traffic, and it's a safety concern as well. Limiting pedestrian movements to the back half or two thirds of the green sequence would result in better and safer traffic flow for everyone.
    And somewhat related, I don't understand why the hell the City is content with a 3 year long "temporary" lane closure on 105 street just South of Jasper Avenue. Is it really that difficult for them to add some overhead and on pavement signage saying "LEFT LANE LEFT TURN ONLY AHEAD". Instead, they just slap a few barricades and a flashing sign in the middle of the road, which looks bush league and causes traffic to have to merge and then immediately de-merge to turn left. It makes no sense, and leads to significant loss of efficiency at that intersection. Especially when it's going to be there for literally years while the storm tunnel is worked on. Why does the CoE find these things so difficult to think through? Not to mention that the closure area wouldn't need to be nearly as large North of Jasper Avenue, were it not for them using "lay down" area to park worker's vehicles. On any given day there is nearly a dozen personal vehicles parked in the closure area. Gee, maybe we wouldn't have to close the Northbound lane or have it swerve to the curbs if workers were told to park elsewhere?

  3. #1003

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    ^Agreed an all counts.
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  4. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    And somewhat related, I don't understand why the hell the City is content with a 3 year long "temporary" lane closure on 105 street just South of Jasper Avenue. Is it really that difficult for them to add some overhead and on pavement signage saying "LEFT LANE LEFT TURN ONLY AHEAD". Instead, they just slap a few barricades and a flashing sign in the middle of the road, which looks bush league and causes traffic to have to merge and then immediately de-merge to turn left. It makes no sense, and leads to significant loss of efficiency at that intersection. Especially when it's going to be there for literally years while the storm tunnel is worked on. Why does the CoE find these things so difficult to think through? Not to mention that the closure area wouldn't need to be nearly as large North of Jasper Avenue, were it not for them using "lay down" area to park worker's vehicles. On any given day there is nearly a dozen personal vehicles parked in the closure area. Gee, maybe we wouldn't have to close the Northbound lane or have it swerve to the curbs if workers were told to park elsewhere?



    Yeah, this has been an ongoing $hit show for so long now, Top_Dawg can't even remember when it was normal.

    Actually it is the new normal.

  5. #1005
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    102nd Avenue according to my tenants has significantly calmed down with the addition of the bike lanes. I own a 2nd floor unit in Monaco 2 so it can get extremely loud at rush hour to the point of avoiding the balcony and closing all the windows. Since then; the one day I was back in the city, I noticed traffic moving past downtown towards 109th at a more sensible pace. 40 kph or so.

    So selfishly speaking; it has made my condo much more livable. I'll know in September whether or not I have to build myself some window inserts but the tenants are saying it's peaceful now. So that 10-15 kph actually does make a huge difference for some of us.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  6. #1006
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    That it does, similar to other major cities urban cores.

    With regards to traffic flow, keep in mind that 60% of the total cost for these 'bike lanes' was for signal upgrades to allow for dynamic/flexible changes to the system. They are monitoring all of this, not just how many new bikes there are.
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  7. #1007
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    Now that we had these open for about a month or so, what are peoples thoughts? Good, bad, ugly? What is working very well and where are some areas that need improvement. *I will be using portions of these replies in a report to our steering committee and other direct stakeholders. No names will be used unless specifically requested.
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    We ate at Select on Saturday and was on their patio, I was very surprised to see how many people were using the lanes. Was great to see, I saw a few families out enjoying the weather on their family bike rides.

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    Yeah, I've definitely noticed that there has been a lot of families using them on the weekends, which is nice to see.

  10. #1010

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Now that we had these open for about a month or so, what are peoples thoughts? Good, bad, ugly? What is working very well and where are some areas that need improvement. *I will be using portions of these replies in a report to our steering committee and other direct stakeholders. No names will be used unless specifically requested.
    I have used the lanes several times Ian.

    The good: I like the connected network. I feel much safer and relaxed cycling downtown. I have also taken more trips into downtown specifically because I know I can cycle safely there. Planters are great; I love the added colour and greenery.

    The bad: The increase in cyclists has led to a shortage of bike parking throughout the downtown especially on market days.

    The ugly: Automobiles not obeying the "no turn on red" signs is terrifying. I have had several close calls where I have the green bike light and someone turns in front of me. If this isn't addressed quickly through better signage, education, and/or enforcement, I really fear that someone is going to get seriously injured.

    Those are my two cents. I would love to hear other people's experience.

  11. #1011
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    I too have used the lanes several times and all throughout the entire network.

    The good:

    -The grid is awesome. It connects with most of downtown and seems to connect with areas outside of downtown as well.
    -The lanes give me a sense of safety when I'm riding and I can see that it has done the same for families as well. I have noticed this as more families, even with young children, seem to be using the lanes too.
    -Gives some streets more of an "urban feel"

    The bad:

    -The lights don't seem to be synchronized for cyclists. Sometimes I find that I am hitting every second red light along 102 Avenue.
    -Pedestrians using the bicycle lanes even when the sidewalks are clear and unobstructed.
    -Lack of a bicycle signal at 100 Avenue 103 Street eastbound.
    -Where are the digital counter signs that I was expecting?

  12. #1012
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    Keep it coming! I will include these and provide them directly to the project team at the end of this week.

    Counters are along the system...
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  13. #1013

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    Good
    - Streets are tamed not only for cyclists but seem better for pedestrians too. Shorter crossing distances and pushing cars away from the sidewalk are both good things. So is lower traffic speeds.
    -The bike paths feel much safer.
    -Shorter signal cycles, and slower "synchronization" speed are much better than what we had before

    Bad -
    -Connections at the ends of the network other than to the west are less than ideal. Paths through McEwan need to be defined, and at 110st, made possible to bike.
    -There are spots where the lane is minimal but for whatever reason the design left way more general traffic space than necessary. I notice this where 96st meets that LRT path. The lane ends there but rather than narrow the through lanes to 2x 10' lanes they left oversized lanes that are getting used for illegal parking that blocks sightlines for path users and makes the transition from sharrow-ed on-street riding from the north to lanes to the south awkward.
    -Thy put in a beg button at 106st and 104ave. That's garbage. Same as at 108st, car traffic has to stop at 105 and 109 anyway, there is zero impact to give a bike green every cycle. This is a downgrade from what was there before.
    -lack of through routes E-W
    -The 104ave sidewalk route along 104 is horrible.
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    I assume you've contacted EBC Ian? Have you asked them to provide similar feedback on there Facebook feed?

  15. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    I assume you've contacted EBC Ian? Have you asked them to provide similar feedback on there Facebook feed?
    EBC and PathsforPeople are on the same committee and regularly report back.
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  16. #1016

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Now that we had these open for about a month or so, what are peoples thoughts? Good, bad, ugly? What is working very well and where are some areas that need improvement. *I will be using portions of these replies in a report to our steering committee and other direct stakeholders. No names will be used unless specifically requested.
    I have used the lanes several times Ian.

    The good: I like the connected network. I feel much safer and relaxed cycling downtown. I have also taken more trips into downtown specifically because I know I can cycle safely there. Planters are great; I love the added colour and greenery.

    The bad: The increase in cyclists has led to a shortage of bike parking throughout the downtown especially on market days.

    The ugly: Automobiles not obeying the "no turn on red" signs is terrifying. I have had several close calls where I have the green bike light and someone turns in front of me. If this isn't addressed quickly through better signage, education, and/or enforcement, I really fear that someone is going to get seriously injured.

    Those are my two cents. I would love to hear other people's experience.
    Thank you for your post. I too am concerned about drivers not observing cyclists while making right, or left turns. I too have had drivers make right hand turns on a red even though it is obviously not clear to do so. Some drivers scan for cyclists, pedestrians and some don't do this sufficiently judging from their exhibited driving. I've seen drivers in this city that will stare to the left for 10-15 contiguous seconds looking left to see if its clear without once looking right and then proceeding...(this should be shocking to anybody because its outright driving fail and with potential lethal consequences)

    Anyway the concerns are real. There are some terrible drivers out there, a lot of them, and that are oblivious to other user modes on roadways (they seemingly only recognize other vehicles)

    However its early and adaptation can occur. For instance I'll cite a right hand turn stop at Gateway and Whitemud heading due south. Drivers have learned to stop there. It took awhile, used to be a gongshow with some drivers stopping and others not, and theres been multiple cars hitting others from behind there (it used to be yield, not stop) but now drivers are really adapting to probably where 90% of drivers are stopping there. (I think its been 2 years since the change in traffic control at that intersection) But its case in point that while drivers do heed more and gradually start to recognize new signalling and signs that its never all drivers.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  17. #1017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I too am concerned about drivers not observing cyclists while making right, or left turns.
    Have to say I share that concern from a drivers point of view. I don't think most people realize how far back they have to check for a cyclist before make a right turn. Driver are used to checking for pedestrians who probably are walking at no more than 5 km/h or 4 m/s. Assuming it takes 3 seconds for a car to make a right turn, the driver only needs to check the crosswalk and then the sidewalk 12 m behind them and if they screw up people who are walking can stop in a meter or 2.

    For bikes we have to assume some cyclists can actually ride at 50 km/h or 40 m/s. The driver now has to check the bike lane up to 120 m behind them. A shoulder check won't suffice.
    Last edited by pietschu; 19-07-2017 at 10:20 AM.

  18. #1018

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    50 km/h is a bit much. Try 20-30 km/h for average.

    The problem I'm seeing is many motorists are ignoring the new no right turn signs, or stopping in the bike lanes. You shouldn't stop in either a pedestrian crosswalk, or a bike crosswalk, but it happens all the time all over the place.

  19. #1019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    50 km/h is a bit much. Try 20-30 km/h for average.

    The problem I'm seeing is many motorists are ignoring the new no right turn signs, or stopping in the bike lanes. You shouldn't stop in either a pedestrian crosswalk, or a bike crosswalk, but it happens all the time all over the place.
    For safety, using the average is not sufficient. You really should account for the worst case.

  20. #1020

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    Quote Originally Posted by pietschu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I too am concerned about drivers not observing cyclists while making right, or left turns.
    Have to say I share that concern from a drivers point of view. I don't think most people realize how far back they have to check for a cyclist before make a right turn. Driver are used to checking for pedestrians who probably are walking at no more than 5 km/h or 4 m/s. Assuming it takes 3 seconds for a car to make a right turn, the driver only needs to check the crosswalk and then the sidewalk 12 m behind them and if they screw up people who are walking can stop in a meter or 2.

    For bikes we have to assume some cyclists can actually ride at 50 km/h or 40 m/s. The driver now has to check the bike lane up to 120 m behind them. A shoulder check won't suffice.
    In order to properly detect cyclists, skateboarders, inline skaters(for someone reason seems to be far less of them these days) one has to get into the habit of continually scanning who and what is on the roads and adjacent trails as you pass. Knowing that its relevant information I catch users with my peripheral vision, note they are there, which direction they are travelling, and then I know I have to account for their location. I do this with vehicles as well. Part of defensive driving is being aware of the presence of other vehicles as much as possible at all times and even if evasive action is required. It seems a lot of people don't drive like that. As a cyclist the more common reaction I get from drivers is that they didn't spot me, didn't account for me, and surprised that I am in the intersection with the green light.

    I'm in the habit now of giving a wave to every driver that does detect me on roadways and does allow me passage and that delays their right or left turns to allow me across the intersection on the green. All they are doing is what they are supposed to but I'm trying to reinforce it with a little regard. I find focusing on the good drivers out there takes some negativity away from focusing on the drivers that would run you over if you didn't detect their driving errors. In Edmonton this occurs easily on average every km I cycle.

    An interesting exercise is to count the number of driver infractions that if you didn't cycle defensively would result in potential accidents. Its disturbing, but illustrative. On even average length trips its not hard to ring up a dozen cases of drivers not yielding on turns alone.
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  21. #1021

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    50 km/h is a bit much. Try 20-30 km/h for average.

    The problem I'm seeing is many motorists are ignoring the new no right turn signs, or stopping in the bike lanes. You shouldn't stop in either a pedestrian crosswalk, or a bike crosswalk, but it happens all the time all over the place.
    I'd say that the average speed for your everyday cyclist is probably somewhere between 15-25kmh. Honestly, if I'm averaging upwards of 30km/h, I'd likely be more comfortable in the regular traffic lane, but that's me speaking as a regular road cyclist. Any collision with anything going that speed is seriously going to hurt and I'd prefer to make sure to be seen by all vehicles (especially if I'm going fast enough to catch up to them at traffic lights). If I'm going upwards of 50km/h (usually down hills) I'll position myself to force cars to change lanes to pass me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pietschu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I too am concerned about drivers not observing cyclists while making right, or left turns.
    Have to say I share that concern from a drivers point of view. I don't think most people realize how far back they have to check for a cyclist before make a right turn. Driver are used to checking for pedestrians who probably are walking at no more than 5 km/h or 4 m/s. Assuming it takes 3 seconds for a car to make a right turn, the driver only needs to check the crosswalk and then the sidewalk 12 m behind them and if they screw up people who are walking can stop in a meter or 2.

    For bikes we have to assume some cyclists can actually ride at 50 km/h or 40 m/s. The driver now has to check the bike lane up to 120 m behind them. A shoulder check won't suffice.
    In order to properly detect cyclists, skateboarders, inline skaters(for someone reason seems to be far less of them these days) one has to get into the habit of continually scanning who and what is on the roads and adjacent trails as you pass. Knowing that its relevant information I catch users with my peripheral vision, note they are there, which direction they are travelling, and then I know I have to account for their location. I do this with vehicles as well. Part of defensive driving is being aware of the presence of other vehicles as much as possible at all times and even if evasive action is required. It seems a lot of people don't drive like that. As a cyclist the more common reaction I get from drivers is that they didn't spot me, didn't account for me, and surprised that I am in the intersection with the green light.

    I'm in the habit now of giving a wave to every driver that does detect me on roadways and does allow me passage and that delays their right or left turns to allow me across the intersection on the green. All they are doing is what they are supposed to but I'm trying to reinforce it with a little regard. I find focusing on the good drivers out there takes some negativity away from focusing on the drivers that would run you over if you didn't detect their driving errors. In Edmonton this occurs easily on average every km I cycle.

    An interesting exercise is to count the number of driver infractions that if you didn't cycle defensively would result in potential accidents. Its disturbing, but illustrative. On even average length trips its not hard to ring up a dozen cases of drivers not yielding on turns alone.
    Agreed with this as well. I always try to make eye contact and give a wave to drivers in the same situation that you describe. You kind of develop a sense after some time to be able to predict and anticipate when some drivers won't stop and try to turn in front of you as well.
    Last edited by Nunymare; 19-07-2017 at 01:15 PM.

  22. #1022

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    You described exactly, my past approach. If I'm going to be cycling on a road I want to e going 25-30km/hr so as not to be too much of an impediment to traffic and also allowing that traffic more opportunity to spot me as they are upcoming. That said I would cycle closer to the curb (I know its dangerous) but due to the rare aggressive driver who's first impulse is just run you off the road. Those drivers exist here.

    Many stories as well of people riding motorcyclists who note how many drivers don't spot them and only seem to check for what looks like vehicles. When you are driving in regular lane position be very aware of the person that will change lanes right into you without so much as checking or noting that you are there. As described this happened to me. I've also successfully avoided being a speed bump too many times to count.

    I'll recount a story from yesterday. I'm on a path with my mountain bike. a faster cyclist is approaching from behind on what appeared to be a touring bike. I assumed he would pass me just after the intersection and not at the intersection which is hazardous and often with vehicles that don't check their turns. He passes right at intersection and then immediately jumps out into road lane postion instead of taking the continuing multilane trail (that he was on) subsequent to the intersection. In other words he darts out onto the road suddenly on the road. With vehicles approaching.
    To me this cyclist by switching from path to roadway (and aggressively) made it impossible for responsible drivers in the area to know what he was going to do albeit I'm not certain he singled, I imagine he checked, but his "merge" (not at all legal) was tight. it was on a green, at rush hour, with steady traffic going the same direction. This cyclist had performed a dreaded cycling courier type manoeuvre. Which of course drivers (and other more careful cyclists) of course detest.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-07-2017 at 01:21 PM.
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  23. #1023

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You described exactly, my past approach. If I'm going to be cycling on a road I want to e going 25-30km/hr so as not to be too much of an impediment to traffic and also allowing that traffic more opportunity to spot me as they are upcoming. That said I would cycle closer to the curb (I know its dangerous) but due to the rare aggressive driver who's first impulse is just run you off the road. Those drivers exist here.

    Many stories as well of people riding motorcyclists who note how many drivers don't spot them and only seem to check for what looks like vehicles. When you are driving in regular lane position be very aware of the person that will change lanes right into you without so much as checking or noting that you are there. As described this happened to me. I've also successfully avoided being a speed bump too many times to count.

    I'll recount a story from yesterday. I'm on a path with my mountain bike. a faster cyclist is approaching from behind on what appeared to be a touring bike. I assumed he would pass me just after the intersection and not at the intersection which is hazardous and often with vehicles that don't check their turns. He passes right at intersection and then immediately jumps out into road lane postion instead of taking the continuing multilane trail (that he was on) subsequent to the intersection. In other words he darts out onto the road suddenly on the road. With vehicles approaching.
    To me this cyclist by switching from path to roadway (and aggressively) made it impossible for responsible drivers in the area to know what he was going to do albeit I'm not certain he singled, I imagine he checked, but his "merge" (not at all legal) was tight. it was on a green, at rush hour, with steady traffic going the same direction. This cyclist had performed a dreaded cycling courier type manoeuvre. Which of course drivers (and other more careful cyclists) of course detest.
    Agreed, it all depends on speed to me. I'll usually ride closer to the curb if I'm going slower, or it's windy (and even on the sidewalk and paths when going realllly slow), but if I'm going anything over 30kph I'll usually be at least a metre (if not more) from the curb, especially if traffic is light. It drives me insane when cars try and pass within the same lane when there's a completely open one to their left, and I find that this approach usually works to deter this from happening. But as you said, those drivers do exist here so it's important to always pay attention. I can't get over how some people cycle with headphones in... it's a horrible, horrible idea.

    Back to the topic, I do agree that a good bunch of drivers do only look for vehicles and don't really expect that other road users might be going at speeds that vehicles go at. I went for a ride on the grid last week (at a leisurely pace, not even close to 'workout' speed) and had at least 2 or 3 cars turn in front of me or even stop right in the bike box. Some of the more experienced cyclists might be able to anticipate incidents like this and stop ahead of time or make eye contact with the driver/wave, etc but I can't help but think that turn-related accidents are inevitable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pietschu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    50 km/h is a bit much. Try 20-30 km/h for average.

    The problem I'm seeing is many motorists are ignoring the new no right turn signs, or stopping in the bike lanes. You shouldn't stop in either a pedestrian crosswalk, or a bike crosswalk, but it happens all the time all over the place.
    For safety, using the average is not sufficient. You really should account for the worst case.
    If someone in full lycra on a $10k road bike is whipping around on the bike lanes at 50 km/h, they should be every bit as cognizant of their invisibility as a driver in a car should. Frankly, traveling that fast in the bike lanes would be irresponsible and they should save that for riding out in the country or on arterial roads in the city. Not the commuter bike lanes where most everyone else would be traveling less than half their speed.

    Also, your original math was way off. 50 km/h is 14 m/s. You converted to feet per second or something. Same goes for your walking speed calculation. The factor to convert between km/h and m/s is 3.6.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 19-07-2017 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pietschu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    50 km/h is a bit much. Try 20-30 km/h for average.

    The problem I'm seeing is many motorists are ignoring the new no right turn signs, or stopping in the bike lanes. You shouldn't stop in either a pedestrian crosswalk, or a bike crosswalk, but it happens all the time all over the place.
    For safety, using the average is not sufficient. You really should account for the worst case.
    If someone in full lycra on a $10k road bike is whipping around on the bike lanes at 50 km/h, they should be every bit as cognizant of their invisibility as a driver in a car should. Frankly, traveling that fast in the bike lanes would be irresponsible and they should save that for riding out in the country or on arterial roads in the city. Not the commuter bike lanes where most everyone else would be traveling less than half their speed.

    Also, your original math was way off. 50 km/h is 14 m/s. You converted to feet per second or something. Same goes for your walking speed calculation. The factor to convert between km/h and m/s is 3.6.
    I don't think the lycra wearing guy on his $10,000 bike going 50 in a bike lane exists outside of the straw man.

    I can't see anyone doing 50 in a bike lane. Even 30 is often too fast if there are other people on bikes. In 10+ years riding and commuting exclusively by bike I don't know if I ever hit 50 at any time.

    FYI - I've never been in a collision while riding (not counting the person that "nudged" me from behind at a light). The only time I've been hit was a few months ago, as a pedestrian, and it was by someone turning right at an intersection while he had a red light. I'd already crossed 5 lanes, and was looking right at the guy, who appeared to be looking right at me. No idea what he was doing, but if I hadn't slammed my arm down on the hood of his truck he would have run me over. I'm good with no turn on a red light.
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    ^Where is this?! You go Edmo.
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    Looks like 103 Street.
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    ^ Sans anyone on a bike.
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  30. #1030

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ Sans anyone on a bike.
    Sans almost anyone period.

    That's a textbook you could fire cannons down that block and not hit anybody daytime scene.

    DECL must have been having a hotdog and popcorn sale with flaming dancing poodles and everybody in the crowded DT was there instead..
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    It's (bike) party time!



    July 24, 2017

    Ready, set, let’s roll with the official launch of the Downtown Bike Network! We’re throwing a party to celebrate the opening of the protected bike lanes, and the collaborative work that the community and City of Edmonton have accomplished together. It’s your bike party, and everyone’s invited! The event, called Cycle in the City, will feature children’s games, tours, and five “pit stops” located along the network.

    Date: August 26, 2017
    Time: 10 a.m.- 3 p.m., opening ceremony at 11 a.m.
    Location: Pit stops located throughout downtown. Opening ceremony at the Legislature Grounds.

    Program: The Five Pitstops

    Main Stage
    (Federal Building Plaza, 9820-107 Street)
    Kick off at the Legislature Grounds (Federal Building Plaza) with the opening ceremony at 11 a.m.. Here, you can rent a bike, grab a bite at a food truck, and much more. This is also your starting point for the themed bike tours.

    Education Avenue
    (102 Avenue between 107-108 Street)
    Learn how to roll through the Network! Our Bike Education Street Team will be on hand to step you through all the new features on the network, giving you the confidence to ride it on your bike. Edmonton Transit Service will also be on hand to demonstrate how to ‘rack’ your bike on buses.

    Go Green with Blatchford and MacEwan University
    (SW corner of 105 Street and 105 Avenue)
    Enjoy the sweet (sustainable) life with bike games, music, local food and more.

    Urban Commuter Zone
    (The Armature, 96 Street between Jasper Avenue and 103 Avenue)
    Make bike shorts cool again while you do free HIIT (High Intensity Interval training) classes, try on some commuter gear, and see some amazing local performances.

    Family Fun Zone
    (Downtown Edmonton Community League, 10042-103 Street)
    Bike decorating, music, games, and more for the whole family!

    But wait...there’s more!
    Take the scenic route on one of the free or low-cost bike tours featuring Downtown art, architecture and food.
    Salivate over the food trucks at each of the pitstops.
    No pedals? No problem! We’re celebrating how the new Network will benefit cyclists, pedestrians and motorists alike. We’ll also have bike rentals available.

    For more information:

    edmonton.ca/CycleintheCity
    edmonton.ca/BikeDowntown

    Media contacts:

    Lesley Vaage
    Communications Advisor, City of Edmonton
    780-495-0651
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  32. #1032

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    ^^We were. And you missed it.
    www.decl.org

  33. #1033

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    DECL must have been having a hotdog and popcorn sale with flaming dancing poodles and everybody in the crowded DT was there instead..
    The poodles were AWESOME, if you were upwind...
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  34. #1034

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    I couldn't find a way to post the graphic so the link will have to do.
    http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2017/08/03
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  35. #1035
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    Good bike update meeting this AM.

    Project on time/on budget! A reminder that signalling was the majority of the budget which helps drivers, cyclists and pedestrians.

    More education material, social media and street-teams rolling out as we get closer to back to school.

    Number of bike trips up 100% since bike lane opening! 2500-4800! *contact Olga if you want to know more.

    Canada Day had the highest usage at 5500.

    105 Avenue portion to be opened by late August.


    https://www.edmonton.ca

    There will be 5 activation/pitstop zones:

    https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla.../festival.aspx
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  36. #1036

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    Downtown Bike Network Update this morning:

    - 96 street and Jasper signal not possible due to underground structures. Flatiron basement/Turkish baths extends under street.
    - 99 Street closed at the square for festivals.
    - 105 Avenue due to open by August 26
    - Target to open network was July 2017. Phased opening started June 16, mostly open by June 23.
    - New Downtown Bike maps coming. Haven't been updated since 2013. More videos and education coming. Motorist hand book coming as well.
    - Video monitors gathering data on all users at this point. 15 counters coming from Eco-Counters from France, 2 visible totem counters coming. Data will be shared openly and shared with other counters worldwide.
    - Counts - May 31: 2454 (before network), June 30: 4711 (after network open). Both days good weather no precipitation.
    - 100 ave seeing most traffic. 1312 on June 30, 102 ave 333 on June 30. 102 Oliver bike grid under construction and Encore construction likely causes.
    - May 31: 55727 car count, June 30: 55097
    - Best day ever so far was Canada Day. 5500 trips. 1513 on 100 Avenue
    - Education teams talked to 4200 people so far. Partnering with AMA to distribute education to members, driving schools, etc.

    IanO already mentioned Bike Party, Main stage and ceremony will be at Federal Building/107 Street pit stop at 11am that day. City officials, Andrew Ference, Stantec and others will be speaking. At least 30 partners involved with the event, should be a fun day!
    www.decl.org

  37. #1037

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    ^The obvious question being where, and what they are counting.

    Why do I have to contact Olga to see some actual numbers, where they were taken, and what they actually mean.

    In short they mean that if you build a bike system on distinct roadways then its likely that more cyclists will use those distinct roads. It doesn't equate however with the automatic inference that twice as many cyclists are going DT. Just that more are using the exact routes, which are now part of the network.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  38. #1038

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    Andrew Ference? lol. TERRIBLE as an Oiler, one of the worst acquisitions ever added in a deplorable decade of Oilers hockey who "retired" conveniently after picking up his contract pay even while not being close to good enough to be a dressed player. Can't remember the last time Ference even dressed as an Oiler. Fortunately. Who wants to see this guy again? Not me.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  39. #1039

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    ^I took more notes that Ian did as you can see

    Data is just a snipet in time. Doesn't give us any kind of picture yet. You can infer whatever you want from the data or argue whatever you want since these are only really baselines, the network only being open for one month of one season.
    www.decl.org

  40. #1040

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    ^^Please don't come then.
    www.decl.org

  41. #1041

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    ^^Seemed an emphatical enough statement inducing my its a false or unsubstantiated fact reply..

    "Number of bike trips up 100% since bike lane opening!"
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  42. #1042

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    ^^Sans a bike bridge I certainly won't bother.

    A party with Andrew Ference. For Oilers fans that would mean antidepressants required party.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  43. #1043

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    ^He is but a tiny part of what's going on that day. But I won't grab an autograph for you
    www.decl.org

  44. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Why do I have to contact Olga to see some actual numbers, where they were taken, and what they actually mean.
    That was for those such as the media or others who wish to know more or use them for anything.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  45. #1045

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Why do I have to contact Olga to see some actual numbers, where they were taken, and what they actually mean.
    That was for those such as the media or others who wish to know more or use them for anything.
    The ministry of information can't simply inform people living in a democracy of where the counts actually occurred?

    Lacking that the numbers have no substance. Which is not a bad thing to point out.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  46. #1046
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    What the hell are you talking about?
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  47. #1047

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?
    You're well read I see...The reference to misinformation should be obvious. I'm not giving away clues.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  48. #1048

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    "Thirteen eco-counters will also be placed along the route to track bike traffic. These counters will allow us to measure and report on bicycle traffic along the route. This data will be crucial for planning and managing cycling infrastructure." - City of Edmonton, Downtown Bike Network webpage

    It's been what... 2 months? Maybe? And numbers are being demanded to justify this exercise? Good pilot programs last 2-3 years for solid data, not weeks.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  49. #1049

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    "Thirteen eco-counters will also be placed along the route to track bike traffic. These counters will allow us to measure and report on bicycle traffic along the route. This data will be crucial for planning and managing cycling infrastructure." - City of Edmonton, Downtown Bike Network webpage

    It's been what... 2 months? Maybe? And numbers are being demanded to justify this exercise? Good pilot programs last 2-3 years for solid data, not weeks.
    One could counter that honest administrations don't claim "100% more riders without offering substantiating data to the taxpayer in a City that has set out on countless attempted and aborted bike missives with one being more laughable than the other. Works both ways doesn't it?

    Cycling initiatives in this city have been largely a joke. The City is desperate then, to dust off this one as a 100% success, and is doing that summarily, and before "'solid data".

    That's the point of my reply regarding the Cities latest doublespeak on cycling initiative.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  50. #1050

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    ^Guess we should simply call Olga.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  51. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    "Thirteen eco-counters will also be placed along the route to track bike traffic. These counters will allow us to measure and report on bicycle traffic along the route. This data will be crucial for planning and managing cycling infrastructure." - City of Edmonton, Downtown Bike Network webpage

    It's been what... 2 months? Maybe? And numbers are being demanded to justify this exercise? Good pilot programs last 2-3 years for solid data, not weeks.
    Bingo. Early days and let's wait until a year has gone by to properly evaluate this.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  52. #1052
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    Hmm, I wonder what it will be like when its -30.

  53. #1053

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Bingo. Early days and let's wait until a year has gone by to properly evaluate this.
    So maybe the city & proponents like yourself shouldn't be distributing/promoting numbers that make it seem like a fait accompli? Or is it only criticism that needs to wait for hard data while empty praise & bombastic claims are A-OK from the get go? Is this just another case of "do as I say & not as I do?" hypocrisy? Not very classy.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  54. #1054

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Hmm, I wonder what it will be like when its -30.
    Cold.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Hmm, I wonder what it will be like when its -30.
    Cold.
    Empty and cold. F cold! Oh right, winter city!

  56. #1056

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Hmm, I wonder what it will be like when its -30.
    Cold.
    Empty and cold. F cold! Oh right, winter city!
    -30 for 6 months of the year. Old warm and sunny for 2 months (not counting the T-storms). Homeless people steal bikes Downtown. Too many pandhandlers. Smells like urine.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  57. #1057
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Bingo. Early days and let's wait until a year has gone by to properly evaluate this.
    So maybe the city & proponents like yourself shouldn't be distributing/promoting numbers that make it seem like a fait accompli? Or is it only criticism that needs to wait for hard data while empty praise & bombastic claims are A-OK from the get go? Is this just another case of "do as I say & not as I do?" hypocrisy? Not very classy.
    The obvious difference is that good news promotes use by more users, whereas negative news does nothing but detract. The money has been spent and the pilot project is well under way, so the only thing anybody is accomplishing by pushing a negative narrative is that more money will potentially have to be spent to remove the bike lanes. I get wanting to say "I told you so", but the fact that the lanes aren't operating at capacity from day 1 doesn't warrant that. Growth in ridership is an accomplishment. That the growth isn't as rapid as you might prefer is not a knock against the bike lanes, it's a knock against your purposely unrealistic expectations.

  58. #1058

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    That the growth isn't as rapid as you might prefer is not a knock against the bike lanes, it's a knock against your purposely unrealistic expectations.
    I don't have any expectations. This project is largely irrelevant to me, given I can't/don't commute by bike, nor do I live, work or play Downtown in general. I have no horse in this race whatsoever, just tired of the constant self-aggrandizing by the City at the earliest possible opportunity, especially given their track record when looking at how their major initiatives play out.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    That the growth isn't as rapid as you might prefer is not a knock against the bike lanes, it's a knock against your purposely unrealistic expectations.
    I don't have any expectations. This project is largely irrelevant to me, given I can't/don't commute by bike, nor do I live, work or play Downtown in general. I have no horse in this race whatsoever, just tired of the constant self-aggrandizing by the City at the earliest possible opportunity, especially given their track record when looking at how their major initiatives play out.
    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    If they promote it by saying more people are riding, they're self aggrandizing. If they say nothing they're not promoting it and it becomes a waste of money due to lack of use.

  60. #1060

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    If they promote it by saying more people are riding, they're self aggrandizing. If they say nothing they're not promoting it and it becomes a waste of money due to lack of use.
    Either way, petty old gits get to hear themselves complaining. A win for them!
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  61. #1061

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Either way, petty old gits get to hear themselves complaining. A win for them!
    And here you are complaining about the complainers, making you one of them (but worse, as you're painfully self-unaware).
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    If they promote it by saying more people are riding, they're self aggrandizing. If they say nothing they're not promoting it and it becomes a waste of money due to lack of use.
    Either way, petty old gits get to hear themselves complaining. A win for them!
    Says the petty old git complaining about complainers. LOL!

  63. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Hmm, I wonder what it will be like when its -30.
    No doubt, there will be substantially fewer cyclists at -30. But, even before the cycle lanes there were those who trudged on.
    ... gobsmacked

  64. #1064

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    If they promote it by saying more people are riding, they're self aggrandizing. If they say nothing they're not promoting it and it becomes a waste of money due to lack of use.
    Either way, petty old gits get to hear themselves complaining. A win for them!
    Says the petty old git complaining about complainers. LOL!
    Only petty old gits would call an observation about their behaviours complaining, because that's most of the little they have left in life to justify themselves.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  65. #1065

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post

    Only petty old gits would call an observation about their behaviours complaining, because that's most of the little they have left in life to justify themselves.
    Semantics: the Swiss Army knife of keyboard warriors!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Keep in mind that this project is essentially a motorist signal upgrade with some bike network attached to it.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  67. #1067
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Bingo. Early days and let's wait until a year has gone by to properly evaluate this.
    So maybe the city & proponents like yourself shouldn't be distributing/promoting numbers that make it seem like a fait accompli? Or is it only criticism that needs to wait for hard data while empty praise & bombastic claims are A-OK from the get go? Is this just another case of "do as I say & not as I do?" hypocrisy? Not very classy.
    Actually, it was to get some early indication of what IS happening, but that we should wait until this time next year to start do more formal reviews.
    www.decl.org

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  68. #1068
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    I was in Victoria these past few days and saw that they have a similar system there. Sections of green pavement and, at an intersection, the light sequence on the street parallel to the bike lane being: Red, green for straight ahead (bikes having a separate light with a bike icon - green also). Then a right turn green filter arrow, at which point the bike icon turned red. Seemed a safe arrangement. No bikes in attendance at that moment, though.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  69. #1069

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    Most of the curbs have been poured for the 102 Ave. separated bike lane in Oliver. It looks like repaving will begin shortly. https://twitter.com/dstn_m/status/896136110836858880

  70. #1070

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    Construction started last week on the 105 Ave lanes, lines are painted and curbs are stage for set up. Haven't really noticed how they are going to tie them to the rest of the network across Grant Mac though. I also got a call back from the city following a complaint of no sidewalks on 105 Ave and they said the bike lanes on 105 Ave will be shared use. They don't seem any wider than the lanes elsewhere downtown so it might be tight sharing.

  71. #1071
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    I went down 105 Ave west of 109 St the other day. Sure the bike lanes are nice, but a major sore spot for me is there are still no sidewalks along this road at all. And if that street beautification initiative ever gets going then they'll have to tear up these new bike lanes and rebuild them again?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Budget was there and it needed to be done ASAP.

    Columbia BLVD MUST be in the next capital budget for improvements from 105-116st.

    Low hanging fruit if I have ever seen it.
    www.decl.org

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  74. #1074

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    How did Columbia Blvd get its name?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    How did Columbia Blvd get its name?
    That was the original name of the street.
    But rather than veer this off-topic, more info here:
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...cape-109-119st
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 23-08-2017 at 02:16 PM.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Budget was there and it needed to be done ASAP.

    Columbia BLVD MUST be in the next capital budget for improvements from 105-116st.

    Low hanging fruit if I have ever seen it.
    Just seems like a ridiculous waste to build this year then tear down and rebuild next year.
    If it was a budget availability "use it or lose it" thing then why not just build a bike lane elsewhere, such as 100 Ave west of 109 St to 116 St?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    That is a critical part of the 'complete grid' and needed to be done ASAP. Columbia BLVD is still 3-5yrs off min.
    www.decl.org

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  78. #1078

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    Bike lanes easy to put in and take out with minimal effort and cost. Columbia Blvd not funded at this point, will be up to next City Council this November to approve capital money towards it if they deem it a priority.
    www.decl.org

  79. #1079

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Keep in mind that this project is essentially a motorist signal upgrade with some bike network attached to it.
    This really is what it is. I think they went way overboard on the traffic control along 102 ave. Full protected left turns, no right turns on red, no left turns in or out of alleys (with exceptions for cyclists). And this is on a very lightly trafficked street where more often than not you see a couple cars stuck at at the light for several minutes at a time and no other traffic in sight.

    I think they've overcompensated it feels like they don't trust drivers to make the exact same judgement calls they make everywhere else in the city (where plenty of bicycle and pedestrian interactions safely occur all the time). Anyways, all of these traffic controls "may" save a bicyclist's life sometime in the next ten years, but I'm sure all the pollution from cars idling at every light will kill at least 2 people.

  80. #1080

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    ^Agreed but remember eventually 102 Avenue will have LRT and hopefully not with fencing everywhere.
    www.decl.org

  81. #1081

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    ^Agreed but remember eventually 102 Avenue will have LRT and hopefully not with fencing everywhere.
    I'm fully aware of that, but the current Valley line will go up to City Centre mall between 102/103 st. The extension out west still isn't funded yet, so could be some time. Seems premature and I'm getting a bit sick of being honked at when I don't turn right on a red light.

    Just want to add, although I'm not a fan of the traffic controls, the bike lanes are great. And we will be getting bikes soon and using the bike lanes as much as possible.
    Last edited by bolo; 23-08-2017 at 02:33 PM.

  82. #1082

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    ^Ya it's maybe not ideal but I love the bike lanes and how much more pedestrianized things feel and the planters really help with beautification.
    www.decl.org

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    Very much agreed, bolo. Although, unfortunately, I have to admit that some of the "overcompensation" may well be necessary due to how terrible most drivers, cyclists and pedestrians are about being aware of their surroundings. I live in the area, and can see it from all sides as I drive, bike, walk and jog. It's frustrating being stuck at a red light and not being legally allowed to turn right when there is no bike traffic in sight. But it's also frustrating riding a bike in a bike lane, and you have to swerve around the front of a car that's partially pulled through it and then stopped while trying to make a turn. And don't get me started on the pedestrian I just about hit yesterday while turning right (on a green) from 105th street on to 102 avenue. No-walk flashing with only 5 seconds left on the timer, I've already initiated my right turn, and he steps off the curb a solid 15' before the crosswalk (taking a shortcut in order to beat the green/yellow) while looking down at his phone, with headphones in his ears. I was able to stop in time and he also saw me last second, just in time to give me a dirty look like I'm the guy who was in the wrong. Ffffffffffuuuuuu....

  84. #1084

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    ^Maybe you are honing in on the real problem. We're all idiots (drivers, cyclists and pedestrians). I think most downtown drivers have learned to accommodate systematic jaywalking and road cyclist behavior (where they ignore basically every rule of the road). I don't think drivers are the problem and it seems unfair to give them the most prescriptive traffic controls, other than the inherent responsibility of being in control of a tonne of steel.

    I stood at the corner with a COE bike lane surveyor for like 15 mins and we watched a good portion of evening rush hour traffic. The funny thing is that about 1/2 the cyclists were riding on the road instead of the bike lanes, and of those road cyclists, roughly 95% of them committed a traffic infraction at that intersection (running a red, riding in oncoming lane, hopping onto the sidewalk, riding through the crosswalk). The COE employee said that the bike lanes are optional and that cyclists can still choose to use the regular roads. I asked him if they can choose to not follow the rules of the road and he shrugged saying it wasn't a problem with the bike lanes.

    And he's right, it's not a bike lane problem. It's a people problem and specifically targeting drivers isn't going to solve it.

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    I was downtown last Wednesday, driving West along 100 Ave, turning right on 104 st. I couldn't turn for TWO minutes because of the number of bikes using the bike lane. Bike after bike after bike kept going by... it was awesome to see so many people using the bike lane.

    I've definitely noticed more people using the 83 ave lane this year as well, and it doesn't really go anywhere (yet).
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  86. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I was able to stop in time and he also saw me last second, just in time to give me a dirty look like I'm the guy who was in the wrong. Ffffffffffuuuuuu....
    I hope you used your horn. I use mine when idiots walk out when it's counting down like that.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  87. #1087
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    ^^^ I have to admit that I'm rather annoyed by the non-usage of bike lanes by cyclists, especially those who have almost run me over on the sidewalk.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  88. #1088

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo View Post
    ^Maybe you are honing in on the real problem. We're all idiots (drivers, cyclists and pedestrians). I think most downtown drivers have learned to accommodate systematic jaywalking and road cyclist behavior (where they ignore basically every rule of the road). I don't think drivers are the problem and it seems unfair to give them the most prescriptive traffic controls, other than the inherent responsibility of being in control of a tonne of steel.

    I stood at the corner with a COE bike lane surveyor for like 15 mins and we watched a good portion of evening rush hour traffic. The funny thing is that about 1/2 the cyclists were riding on the road instead of the bike lanes, and of those road cyclists, roughly 95% of them committed a traffic infraction at that intersection (running a red, riding in oncoming lane, hopping onto the sidewalk, riding through the crosswalk). The COE employee said that the bike lanes are optional and that cyclists can still choose to use the regular roads. I asked him if they can choose to not follow the rules of the road and he shrugged saying it wasn't a problem with the bike lanes.

    And he's right, it's not a bike lane problem. It's a people problem and specifically targeting drivers isn't going to solve it.

    I think you may be right that everyone needs to improve. Many cyclists don't obey the rules but many motorists don't either. Motorists are the last people that should be lecturing anyone. Next time you are downtown to stand around and watch an intersection, make it 100th ave. & 109 st. Watch motorist after motorist turn right on a double red light while cyclists with a green light try to get through the intersection. Go stand at any intersection in Edmonton and watch motorists on the phone while driving, texting while driving, turning right on red without a full stop, turning left or right into the wrong lane, running red lights or running orange lights at speeds way above the limit. The last I heard, the City of Edmonton sends out over 400,000 photo radar speeding tickets every year not to mention the ones handed out by police speed traps. Edmonton Motorists need not lecture anyone. Also, when cyclists pull bone-headed stunts and cause an accident, they pay for it 95% of the time - simple physics. When motorists pull bone-headed stunts, they may pay for it but many times, other motorists, cyclists or pedestrians pay for it. Everyone needs to pay attention and obey the rules but the level of skill shown by the average motorist in Edmonton is pathetic. Also, I got my drivers license in 1967 but I realize that things change and I need to keep up to date. I drive and cycle many miles every year in Edmonton. Many Motorists in this city will lecture a cyclist about what he is doing wrong but most of the time, they don't have a clue. Bicycles don't have to use bike lanes - there are many reasons they may not. I use them because I think they are safer generally, especially when protected from traffic but except for roads where bicycles are restricted (ex. Whitemud freeway and the Henday) every lane in this city is a bike lane and motorists need to realize it.

    Bob Hynes

  89. #1089

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    ^The percentage of road cyclists (not using bike lanes) that flout the law vastly outweighs that of motorists, by orders of magnitude. By and large, it's not a big deal cause most cyclists do act safely. I'm not lecturing cyclists or pedestrians that act with good judgement to make their lives a little more convenient. But there is a double standard in the ability for a motorist to flout the law for convenience, and the city has reduced the number of legal judgement calls a motorist can make, which is simply overbearing.

    On the topic of unsafe motorists, cyclists and pedestrians, I 100% agree.

  90. #1090

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo View Post
    ^The percentage of road cyclists (not using bike lanes) that flout the law vastly outweighs that of motorists, by orders of magnitude. By and large, it's not a big deal cause most cyclists do act safely. I'm not lecturing cyclists or pedestrians that act with good judgement to make their lives a little more convenient. But there is a double standard in the ability for a motorist to flout the law for convenience, and the city has reduced the number of legal judgement calls a motorist can make, which is simply overbearing.

    On the topic of unsafe motorists, cyclists and pedestrians, I 100% agree.
    Most humans can't multi-task beyond two or three tasks. That is the reason cell phones are terrible while driving as is anything else such as changing the radio, heat, etc. Take China for example, their roads offer next to no judgment calls for motorists, and so when they immigrate to Canada, many of their skills are sub-par when it comes to driving. The percentage of drivers that practice distracted driving is staggering. The amount of people that still sit on their phones is scary. There is a reason the police in BC pull you over for anything distracting, whether you're brushing your hair or looking down at the other seat for a Twizzler. I think you under estimate the amount of people breaking the law in a car. Sure, cyclists aren't any better, but you're painting motorists like they can do no wrong. We should police cyclists for sure, but that doesn't mean we should lift the restrictions on drivers either.

  91. #1091
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    Saturday August 26 from 10am-3pm


    www.edmonton.ca

    More info:

    https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...e-network.aspx
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    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  92. #1092

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    Has anything changed since you posted this a page back, two days ago?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  93. #1093
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    Now updated with additional information!

    Thanks for your inquiry!
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  94. #1094

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo View Post
    ^The percentage of road cyclists (not using bike lanes) that flout the law vastly outweighs that of motorists, by orders of magnitude. By and large, it's not a big deal cause most cyclists do act safely. I'm not lecturing cyclists or pedestrians that act with good judgement to make their lives a little more convenient. But there is a double standard in the ability for a motorist to flout the law for convenience, and the city has reduced the number of legal judgement calls a motorist can make, which is simply overbearing.

    On the topic of unsafe motorists, cyclists and pedestrians, I 100% agree.
    I too think that you underestimate the number of motorists who flout laws but I don't really have stats to disprove your first statement. However, I'll say that the consequences to others of motorists flouting the law vastly outweighs that of cyclists, by many, many orders of magnitude. An ***** on a 35 lb bicycle at 30 kph isn't too scary compared to an ***** in a 4000 lb vehicle at the speeds they can go. And as I said in my first message, the cyclist normally pays for his sins by ending up in the hospital or the morgue - not so much for the motorist.

    The only thing that gets people to obey laws is enforcement. I have no problems with cyclists being held accountable and would like to see more of it (ex. how about getting the folks who ride across the High Level Bridge at top speed without any care about other cyclists and pedestrians). We have bicycle police in Edmonton and I see them fairly regularly as well as regular police who can ticket cyclists. However, we must understand that resources are finite and the majority of traffic policing will always be aimed at the Motorist, as it should be, because of the greater potential mayhem a motor vehicle can cause.

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    Officially open!


    www.twitter.com/jeff_bath
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  97. #1097
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    How the Least Bike Friendly City in Canada is Becoming a Cyclist’s Dream

    Tired of Edmonton's reputation for being Canada's least bike friendly city, Paths for People founders Conrad Nobert and Anna Ho are taking back the streets.

    BY OMAR MOUALLEM, READER'S DIGEST CANADA

    Great Canadians: Conrad Nobert & Anna Ho of Paths for People

    On a frigid March morning, Conrad Nobert locks up his bicycle and crosses 102 Avenue, a multi-lane road in downtown Edmonton. By the summer of 2017, it will begin its transformation into a separated bike route connected to a seven-kilometre-long grid of safe bike tracks.

    Until then, Edmonton will have the dubious honour of being Canada’s largest city without a dedicated downtown bike lane. But that’s changing thanks to Paths for People, the organization Nobert, a computer programming teacher, founded with his friend, neighbour and fellow parent Anna Ho, an environmental engineer. Since 2014, the pair has pressured the city to make it safer to be a cyclist or pedestrian in a place Nobert describes as resolutely “car first.”

    http://www.readersdigest.ca/features...friendly-city/
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  98. #1098

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    ^We still have tenuous biking connections to the DT that are at best dangerous for cyclists and other users, we have negligible connection or servicing of the Trans Canada Trail. We now have a very disjointed River valley cycling trail system which has been disconnected in many spots due to construction and that is presently the worst it has been since its inception in the 1970's.

    But we have a few bike lanes DT where hardly any cyclist from outside of the area gets to.

    These are not flippant complaints either. Edmonton is hardly a Cyclists dream and depending on where one lives its more of a nightmare.


    Heres how Edmonton typically treats cyclists. Build a bike trail from Millwoods down 34st going as far north as 56th avenue. Have the trail stop there, in the middle of nowhere even though there is a beautiful wetlands preserve just 4 blocks north of there and wherein a cyclist gets to choose whether they want to access it by battling semi trucks on industrial roads in PylyPOW (aptly named) or the sheer suicide of trying to straddle 34st 4 blocks further while being run off the no shoulder road. As if that isn't short sighted enough then interrupt that trail by having to do some underground utility repair and have the section ripped up for a full 3-4years (I wish I was making this up) causing all the cyclists to have to detour through private land Siwin foods (illegal, and the owner has rightly complained vociferously that the city has in effect detoured cyclists through their private parking lot) to even get to the wetlands preserve.
    After initiating construction on this bike trail in 2013 the asphalt trail has finally been repaved but still only connects as far as 56ave and just ends there. It doesn't continue to the park. maybe a dozen years from now...
    No instead of completing something that was started the city typically waits forever to complete whatever vision they had as they lurch into the next projects and forget about the ones before.
    Last edited by Replacement; 27-08-2017 at 12:10 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  99. #1099
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    Is there any kind of bike trail that connects Mill Woods to the rest of SE Edmonton? I don't see any on 50 Street or 75 Street.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  100. #1100

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    ^Not to distract too much from the thread but there are longstanding bike trail on 86st that is poorly conceived and poorly used. A newer one exists on 91st connecting 34ave with Argyll and a circuitous connection to Millcreek ravine and other trails. Another trail exists on 34avenue but which is not signed well enough that motorists even acknowledge it as a bike path.

    There are bike paths on 23ave that connect SE Millwoods with Meadows and for instance the Rec Center.

    There are no trails on 50th and 75th. I did lobby for a bike lane as part of the Valley Line thoroughfare but its never a priority for the city.

    Not sure if this answers your question.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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