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Thread: Smart Card technology in Bay Station?

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    Default Smart Card technology in Bay Station?

    When I was in Bay Station this afternoon, there was this stainless steel thing, standing about waist height, next to the ticket vendor. It had a smart card reader surface (like those on the ticket vending machines), a small screen and a couple buttons. At first I thought it might be a ticket validating machine, but realized it wasn't because there didn't seem to be a place to put tickets, and the ticket validation machine was still in place. Does anyone know what these may be?

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    ETS smart card pilot project I believe. I think they have some U of A professors trying it out at the moment.

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    I've seen them at the U for a while and was quite excited - but I thought the big ticket dispensers had the same sort of thing built in.

    Anyways, regardless, it's a good step forward. I love the Underground's Oyster card system <3
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    /\ Agreed! The Oyster Card system is slick! I would love to see something like this here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by codeman9669 View Post
    /\ Agreed! The Oyster Card system is slick! I would love to see something like this here!
    Well said - it's cheaper for the customer and pre-payment provides better revenue to the London public transport system. Would be quite easy to add to our LRT and buses.
    Edmonton, Capital of Alberta

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    In Hong Kong they use an oyster card. You can add value at any subway station, mall kiosk, or convenient store. The card can be used obviously on the subway and buses. Even taxis and many participating stores accept them. The card has a chip so there is no swiping needed. Pass your wallet or purse over the sensor pad and the transaction is done. Wicked.

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    I like the fact that Hong Kong has their card expanded to the point they are installed on parking meters and vending machines. Even big franchises have them like McDonalds and Starbucks. They also issue special editions of cards on special holidays like during chinese new years, or themed like for movies or cartoon characters. They call them the Octopus Card. More info : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus_card

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    Quote Originally Posted by peatmoss218 View Post
    I like the fact that Hong Kong has their card expanded to the point they are installed on parking meters and vending machines. Even big franchises have them like McDonalds and Starbucks. They also issue special editions of cards on special holidays like during chinese new years, or themed like for movies or cartoon characters. They call them the Octopus Card. More info : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus_card
    That's a sweet idea... and if they were smart, they would integrate a chip into students ID cards (onecard, Macewan student ID card) and just load the UPASS info on there.

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    From the November 2008 In-Transit newletter:

    ETS Investigates Smart Cards
    ETS is currently partnering with the University of Alberta to investigate the potential of Smart Cards as a form of payment on our LRT system.

    A small group of U of A staff will be using Smart Cards to travel on the LRT between their campuses and facilities. For this phase of the demonstration, Smart Card readers have been installed on the concourse levels in Churchill, Bay and University LRT stations.

    The demonstration project will enable ETS to evaluate equipment and understand the interaction between the customer and the Smart Card technology. Based on the experiences of other transit properties, we believe that the use of Smart Cards has the potential to increase customer satisfaction by simplifying fare products, increasing their purchase options and creating opportunities for us to develop new and innovative fare programs.

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    I first used a card system more than a decade ago in Singapore. Why on earth is Edmonton's transit administration so backwards that it has taken this long? No doubt we will be waiting a decade or more for LCD wait times for buses as well (which is also accepted and well established technology overseas).

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    Will Edmonton only use this for LRT or for the entire public transit system? For buses, its certainly preferable to having to fish around for coins.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Will Edmonton only use this for LRT or for the entire public transit system? For buses, its certainly preferable to having to fish around for coins.
    I think when the mention of smart cards was brought up in the past, the idea was to use smart cards on all of ETS... i.e. busses, LRT, etc.

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    Back in 1999, a lot of people in Hong Kong were already using the smart cards but at that time it was just for transit. I was looking at their site, http://www.octopuscards.com/consumer/en/index.jsp, and wow have they really expanded their uses. Even libraries, leisure facilities, schools, and many of the city services use it. In addition the site lists a number of retail companies that participate in it. Maybe if it successful for transit here we could do the same and expand it to city facilities. It would be like a City of Edmonton pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peatmoss218 View Post
    Back in 1999, a lot of people in Hong Kong were already using the smart cards but at that time it was just for transit. I was looking at their site, http://www.octopuscards.com/consumer/en/index.jsp, and wow have they really expanded their uses. Even libraries, leisure facilities, schools, and many of the city services use it. In addition the site lists a number of retail companies that participate in it. Maybe if it successful for transit here we could do the same and expand it to city facilities. It would be like a City of Edmonton pass.
    I really like that idea. I think student passes should be equipped with chips so that they can use those as bus passes (UPass) too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deedub35 View Post
    In Hong Kong they use an oyster card.
    Actually in Hong Kong they're called the Octopus card. They're great. I love the Hong Kong
    system and would be VERY happy if Edmonton went for that technology.

    The Octopus card in Hong Kong is valid for subways, busses, trams and ferries. As a matter
    of fact, the card readers know if a person has an elder's octopus card. The Star Ferry is free for
    elders (seniors) and the Octopus card will not open the turnstile, reminding the cardholder to go through the open gate.
    Last edited by 24karat; 29-10-2008 at 02:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by deedub35 View Post
    In Hong Kong they use an oyster card.
    Actually in Hong Kong they're called the Octopus card. They're great. I love the Hong Kong
    system and would be VERY happy if Edmonton went for that technology.

    The Octopus card in Hong Kong is valid for subways, busses, trams and ferries. As a matter
    of fact, the card readers know if a person has an elder's octopus card. The Star Ferry is free for
    elders (seniors) and the Octopus card will not open the turnstile, reminding the cardholder to go through the open gate.
    I like it, but it needs to include buses too. This, of course, means getting rid of those stupid Duncan fare-boxes that are so 1950s.
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    Thought this might be the best place for this article. Why can`t we try all of these things on a limited basis to see which ones stick.

    TTC launches 'e-alerts' for riders
    http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/570775
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    Default Edmonton should go with transit smart card: report

    Edmonton should go with transit smart card: report
    BY GORDON KENT, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COMFEBRUARY 4, 2010 6:02 PM

    EDMONTON — The city of Edmonton should spend $22.5 million over the next four years to replace tickets and passes with a transit “smart card,” says a report released Thursday.

    The cards, read by equipment at bus and LRT entrances, could attract new riders with off-peak travel incentives, bonus awards and loyalty programs, the report says.

    Passengers could have money automatically added monthly from their bank account in the same way payments are taken for utility bills, while lost cards could be deactivated and the value transferred to a new one.

    “I have been keen on them since before I was elected (in 2007),” Coun. Don Iveson said.

    One big advantage is that the cards provide detailed information about when and where people travel, allowing planners to adjust services, decide requirements for the bus fleet and establish more appropriate fares, he said.

    “Right now it’s really hard for us to understand the nuances of all our riders’ behaviour on the system — where they board, how far they ride. We can only do surveys.”

    Full Story: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...471/story.html

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    Have done a bit of reading and have noticed the new equipt in the stations but cannot fathom why this change would equate to $22,000,000.00 in expense
    Can anyone help me out with this ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    Have done a bit of reading and have noticed the new equipt in the stations but cannot fathom why this change would equate to $22,000,000.00 in expense
    Can anyone help me out with this ?
    To install them in all the buses?

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    The city has a fleet of about 1,000 buses so for each of them, plus at least 2 at each LRT station that would work out to $22,000 per bus (roughly), seems way overpriced to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    The city has a fleet of about 1,000 buses so for each of them, plus at least 2 at each LRT station that would work out to $22,000 per bus (roughly), seems way overpriced to me.
    Plus the infrastructure to load money onto them at transit stations, at kiosks, etc etc... plus the costs of giving new smartcards to all transit users, etc etc. I'm sure there's a lot more to it than just sticking a reader in each bus.

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    At LRT stations yes, not that much to sticking one on a bus though, I'd estimate $1,000 for the reader, around $1,000 for the computer.

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    ^with internet recharging please (like a timmies card).

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    ^ That would be awesome. If it could be set up as a bill payee with the big banks' online systems, even better.
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    The idea of a smartcard for ETS is something I'd like to see happen before 2020, better yet, 2017.

    I wonder how it's going with the trial use by U of A profs, and also, why this isn't expanded to post-secondary students, if not already?
    Is there hope for Edmonton? Yes!!! The Oilers? Wait and see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
    The idea of a smartcard for ETS is something I'd like to see happen before 2020, better yet, 2017.

    I wonder how it's going with the trial use by U of A profs, and also, why this isn't expanded to post-secondary students, if not already?
    The trial ended at the end of August. I was part of it and thought it was fantastic. You just swipe your entire wallet, no need to take the card out.

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    How do transfers work? Is a swipe good for a certain length of time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    How do transfers work? Is a swipe good for a certain length of time?
    I'm not sure... when U of A employees tested the smart card system on the LRT, it was only to see how often we used them, which stations, etc... we didn't actually carry balances on our cards or anything like that.

    I would assume that you swipe each and every time you take the LRT or a bus, and the system automatically keeps track of your transfers validity etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    I would assume that you swipe each and every time you take the LRT or a bus, and the system automatically keeps track of your transfers validity etc...
    That's how it would work. Machines could dispense the cards as well. It might cost $1,000 per bus (or whatever it is), but IMO, that would be made back by the conveience. A lot of people would probably set their credit card on automatic monthly top up or similar, to always have a valid card. And, just think of all the paper saved.

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    Default Edmonton considers smart card for services

    Edmonton considers smart card for services
    Last Updated: Thursday, July 1, 2010 | 12:40 PM MT
    CBC News

    Edmonton is considering issuing a smart card for a variety of city services.

    The initial card may only be used for transit, then expanded to add other city services such as public libraries, parking and recreational facilities.

    The merits were discussed at the city's executive committee meeting on Wednesday.

    In February, the city's transportation and public works committee approved a report from city staff on the card for the Edmonton Transit System.

    The same month, Mayor Stephen Mandel asked if staff could report on the matter at a later date on a range of city services.

    Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/st...#ixzz0sTceK5xo

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    Default Edmonton buses to get smart technology

    Edmonton buses to get smart technology
    Last Updated: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 | 1:51 PM MT
    CBC News

    A city committee is giving so-called "Smart Bus" technology the intial green light.

    Edmonton Transit Service manager Charles Stolte said the city plans to equip city buses with electronic sensors so commuters can use computers, smart phones and other handheld devices to predict arrival times at a specific stop.

    "It's exactly right down to the second," said Stolte, adding the technology will allow passengers to track movement of track transit buses en route and coordinate their arrival in tandem with the bus.

    "We'll probably have information panels at the university and at Grant MacEwan that will be just like looking at the modules at the airport," said Stolte. "But the airport tells you an estimated time, we'll be able to tell you the exact time a bus is going to be arriving."

    Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/st...#ixzz1CG2NOGO6

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    ^ Noticed that the province is providing some sort of funding for "Smart Bus" as part of their 2012-2014 public infrastructure spending plan. Unclear what that means for deployment (if anything).
    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...t-project.aspx

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    http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...617/story.html

    I hope ETS is not using this company. Actually is anything happening on the smart card front here?
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    This is why I like it when other cities do the testing and debugging of new technology.

    Eve

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    Quote Originally Posted by booster View Post
    http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...617/story.html

    I hope ETS is not using this company. Actually is anything happening on the smart card front here?
    Yes, the Transportation Infrastructure Committee passed a motion to proceed with pursuing the smart card system.

    Watch/read it all here.

    http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/m...doctype=AGENDA

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    I noticed Vancouver has set up gates into each of their stations (not operational yet) and it seems Calgary has set up a type of Oyster card system - doesn't seem operational yet either- but noticed them on the LRT ticket machines and in their busses. A large pad saying "tap here"

    Where is edmonton on these technologies?

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    The city seemed all for it just a year ago but I thought I saw something somewhere about it being on hold.

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    It is probably a good idea to wait until the iPhone 6 comes out, if it has NFC (near field communications, example tapping your credit/ATM cards at the machines) it will change how people pay for things. While other phone manufacturers have had NFC for a while people do tend to wait until Apple comes up with something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    I noticed Vancouver has set up gates into each of their stations (not operational yet) and it seems Calgary has set up a type of Oyster card system - doesn't seem operational yet either- but noticed them on the LRT ticket machines and in their busses. A large pad saying "tap here"

    Where is edmonton on these technologies?
    Probably cause Edmonton transit doesn't warrant such a system yet. I think implementing this requires quite a bit of money.

    HK's octopus card is really TOURIST friendly. You can use it at most places (virtually all chained retail stores) and there's no fear of losing it. Because unlike a credit card, you load money into the card, so whatever you lose will have a limit (unless you auto-reload which a tourist won't do).

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    With NFC now available on most newer phones something like the Oyster card seems pointless. ETS should either work with the various cell phone or banks to implement a system which either integrates with cell phone or ATM/credit cards for a simple tap to pay, take a receipt (ATM/credit cards only) and go system.

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    ^I was thinking that as well, but one step at a time. Also, what happens if your phone powers off due to low battery, and you get asked for a ticket? Perhaps they could give you a ticket, which you could get out of later by showing the purchase? not sure.

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    There's about a billion articles that talk about how NFC has totally failed to become established as a useful, and used, interface.

    Also consider that not everyone has a NFC enabled phone.

    I'll take the card, thanks. But please oh please, let it be compatible with our new parking meters. One card, thanks.
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    If set up correctly it could use the tap and pay interface similar to your ATM, credit cards, however a receipt would be needed as proof of payment. NFC on a cell phone could receive information to indicate payment was made or the rider has a valid electronic pass. Basicly tap and you'd get a regular adult fare take receipt and go, if you need other fare options (children, seniors, return, day pass, monthly pass) you'd need to select options from the machine then tap take receipt and go.
    Last edited by sundance; 10-10-2014 at 10:33 AM.

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    The smart bus funding for the implementation is being discussed at Transportation Committee on October 29th. So this is all in the works already folks.

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    Proposed Edmonton regional Smart Card system moving forward

    http://metronews.ca/news/edmonton/11...ial-rejection/
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    Such an old thread - seems this technology is being superseded. Calgary is looking into the ability to pay on your phone:

    After two failed attempts at an electronic fare system and decades of requiring exact change to ride the city bus, Calgary Transit is now considering allowing customers to use smartphones to purchase fares.

    On Wednesday, the city's transportation and transit committee recommended city council implement a mobile ticketing and fare payment system for Calgary Transit.

    While other cities use refillable smart cards, provide one-week passes or offer electronic fare systems, paying for Calgary Transit has long been more or less the same.

    Ticket vending machines were first installed at LRT stations in 1989 and they've since been upgraded to accept credit and debit cards, as well as cash. Taking the bus itself requires monthly passes, prepaid paper tickets or exact change.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...hone-1.4025953


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    Our city buys technology that was outdated two generations ago. The ePark app is so grossly outdated it's almost funny, except it's not. Do they never update their apps?
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